Why Vaishnava & Vaishnav Gods Targeted ?

[Kulapavana 0]

I do not care if all of you Hare Christians put me on your ignore list. Don't surround yourself with yourself... it's a good advice. I do not mind hearing critical opinions when it comes to my views. I actually welcome it, because I can learn from such criticism.

 

Srila Prabhupada came to the West to transplant Vaishnavism into the rich soil of Western civilization. And he succeeded. We are all a proof of that. Some of the things he said and did can be criticized from various angles, but he achieved his goal, and I am sure he pleased Krsna to the highest degree. However, Vaishnavism is not static, or limited just to the form Srila Prabhupada chose to present in the West. Personally I am more attracted to traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavism and have very little interest in or patience for attempts to blend GV with Abrahamic traditions in order to create some "universal religion".

[Kulapavana 0]

 

Apparantly to Kulapavana and Guruvani, Prabhupada was lying about Jesus being an avatar with the ultimate goal of enticing idiot westerners to become completely assimilated into the Vaisnava tradition.

 

Prabhupada also said that Islam was Vaishnavism too, and that Prophet Muhammad was a saktyavesa avatar:

 

"So therefore, by that symptom, we accept Lord Jesus Christ as Saktyaves avatara, or Hazrat Muhammad, he's also. Because these two religious leaders of the world, they preached about the glorification of the Supreme Lord. And they sacrificed everything for preaching the glories of the Lord. Therefore... And their influence and their followers, there are... These are the symptoms by which we can understand that Jesus Christ and Hazrat Muhammad was, were Saktyaves avataras.

( CC Madhya-lila 20.367-84)

 

Where is your or Theist's respect for Islam? You pride yourself to be "non-sectarian" yet I do not see you ever say anything nice about Islam. You are simply just as sectarian as all the other people here, with your sentiments limited to the group you yourself represent.

 

Prabhupada was not lying, but you just don't actually understand what he is saying.

[bija 0]

dont surround yourself with yourself...move on back to square...

Islam is ok...if the big world turns and am forced to submit I will. And chant the holy name within my heart. No external practice will stop the flow of Hari-naam.

 

Personally I am more attracted to traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavism and have very little interest in or patience for attempts to blend GV with Abrahamic traditions in order to create some "universal religion". kula

I used to blend. No more. Krishna is enough. Even Jesus is on his way to Krishna.

 

But I will sing with christians and feel God. But the christian will be experiencing a subtle (if not vast) difference in taste to what Prabhupada gave and is growing within. That is my experience these days.

[bija 0]

Your spirituality is pleasing. And broad-minded. I dont find you offensive to Prabhupada or to christians.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

But I will sing with christians and feel God.

 

Definitely so... I never denied the validity or value of various religious paths, including those which many devotees shun, like Buddhism, Shaktism, Islam, or Advaita. I have great appreciation for the truly valuable and uplifting things that can be found in these traditions. Sometimes I see our own tradition lacking in certain area by comparing it to other religions. Still, I see no reason to change my tradition, only to change my own practice of that tradition.

[bija 0]

I am very similar kula to what you say here. I have many appreciations within and can see value in all religious expression to uplift the soul. Just like the structure of veda by the great sage. Only those in ignorance of the compassionate wisdom of the sage create polemics, which then leads to offences. Diversity and complexity cries out for wisdom based compassion and text.

 

This is why the hindu cannon is greater than abrahamic texts in my opinion. Ofcourse mystics of all paths find essences and eternal truths.

 

What keeps me in the Gaudiya path is two things if I can simplify:

 

1. the depth of its teaching on love

 

2. the tangible experience and encounter of that love

[Kulapavana 0]

 

I dont find you offensive to Prabhupada or to christians.

 

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Sometimes I think that Srila Prabhupada would not be pleased with everything I say, but that he would appreciate what I am trying to accomplish.

[bija 0]

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Sometimes I think that Srila Prabhupada would not be pleased with everything I say, but that he would appreciate what I am trying to accomplish. kula

You are most welcome in my heart. Prabhupada would not be pleased with me in many cases either. I know he would tell me to be quiet and wash some pots:rolleyes:. We are trying to accomplish a good thing!

[bija 0]

and by the way everyone...I have not been following the discussion...sorry to jump in...

[Amlesh 1]

Nice realisation my friends....

[cbrahma 0]

 

I do not care if all of you Hare Christians put me on your ignore list. Don't surround yourself with yourself... it's a good advice. I do not mind hearing critical opinions when it comes to my views. I actually welcome it, because I can learn from such criticism.

 

Srila Prabhupada came to the West to transplant Vaishnavism into the rich soil of Western civilization. And he succeeded. We are all a proof of that. Some of the things he said and did can be criticized from various angles, but he achieved his goal, and I am sure he pleased Krsna to the highest degree. However, Vaishnavism is not static, or limited just to the form Srila Prabhupada chose to present in the West. Personally I am more attracted to traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavism and have very little interest in or patience for attempts to blend GV with Abrahamic traditions in order to create some "universal religion".

Your whitewash language using the words 'blend' and 'Vaisnavism...limited to the form' contradicts the sectarian rigidity of saying that Abrahmic traditions cannot be included in a 'universal religion'.

This is not in keeping with the teaching of at least three Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas. It doesn't matter what your sectarian presumptions happen to be, Vaisnavism is broad enough to include all religions that meet essential criteria.

[matarisvan 0]

 

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Sometimes I think that Srila Prabhupada would not be pleased with everything I say, but that he would appreciate what I am trying to accomplish.

 

Theist is deceiving himself with false knowledge that he is above religion. But in reality he is more stuck up in labels than anyone else. Read his posts from April to see what I mean.

 

He says he he is a slow learner and I have no reason to doubt that. As we are clearing up these misconceptions now it will be a few years before he gets this. Until then be prepared to hear the same nonsense over and over again from him.

[cbrahma 0]

 

Theist is deceiving himself with false knowledge that he is above religion..

What in God's name is that supposed to mean? False knowledge? Newsflash...Vaisnavism is not a religion. It is the essence of religion - sanatana dharma.

[matarisvan 0]

 

...Vaisnavism is broad enough to include all religions that meet essential criteria.

 

In your mind, theist's mind and the three gaudiya acharyas with no support from scripture. That is five people in total...five people in delusion.

 

Sri Vaishnavas, Madhva Vaishnavas and other Gauidya Vaihnavas do not think so. They follow a more sensible approach.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

It doesn't matter what your sectarian presumptions happen to be, Vaisnavism is broad enough to include all religions that meet essential criteria.

 

Your Vaishnavism may include anything you like, and mine may exclude everything I don't like. That is the beauty of it. I do not mind being called sectarian, because I belong to the Gaudiya Vaishnava sect of Lord Caitanya. I use the mantras of that sect, I worship Krsna in their Temples, and paint my tilaka the way they do. I am sectarian.

[matarisvan 0]

 

What in God's name is that supposed to mean? False knowledge? Newsflash...Vaisnavism is not a religion. It is the essence of religion - sanatana dharma.

 

Shaktism is not a religion. It is the essence of religion - sanatana Dharma.

Shaivism is not a religion. It is the essence of religion - sanatana Dharma.

 

I thank Narayana with all my heart for not putting you in the positon of a Guru. Your inability to grasp basics is apalling. I cannot begin to imagine the harmful effects that would happen if someone like you was in the positon of a teacher.

 

Thankfully your nonsense is limited to this discussion forum where readers by now know how you seriously lack knowledge on Vaishnavism and your lack of ability to learn.

[cbrahma 0]

 

Your Vaishnavism may include anything you like, and mine may exclude everything I don't like. That is the beauty of it. I do not mind being called sectarian, because I belong to the Gaudiya Vaishnava sect of Lord Caitanya. I use the mantras of that sect, I worship Krsna in their Temples, and paint my tilaka the way they do. I am sectarian.

I know you are sectarian. That is painfully obvious. But Vaisnavism doesn't belong to anybody. It isn't my Vaisnavism or your Vaisnavism. I don't know who your spiritual master is but what do you need one for if you think its a cafeteria of favorite philosophies and practices. Prabhupada and indeed the Vedas say that the path of bhakti is a science not to be defined by our personal whims and subjective biases. Religion without philosophy is sentimentality and philosophy without religion is mental speculation.

[cbrahma 0]

 

Shaktism is not a religion. It is the essence of religion - sanatana Dharma.

Shaivism is not a religion. It is the essence of religion - sanatana Dharma.

 

I thank Narayana with all my heart for not putting you in the positon of a Guru. Your inability to grasp basics is apalling. I cannot begin to imagine the harmful effects that would happen if someone like you was in the positon of a teacher.

 

Thankfully your nonsense is limited to this discussion forum where readers by now know how you seriously lack knowledge on Vaishnavism and your lack of ability to learn.

Your tit for tat logic is what is apalling. That is nonsense. Shaivism is not interchangeable with Vaisnavism. You commit again the fallacy of composition. Apples are fruits therefore fruits are apples....

I don't really care if you think I could be guru, since I'm not trying to be. I don't pontificate off the top of my head like you do.

[cbrahma 0]

 

In your mind, theist's mind and the three gaudiya acharyas with no support from scripture. That is five people in total...five people in delusion.

 

Sri Vaishnavas, Madhva Vaishnavas and other Gauidya Vaihnavas do not think so. They follow a more sensible approach.

Who are these other Gaudiya Vaisnavas of which you speak who contradict the acaryas in disciplic succession?

The acaryas have every support from scripture. What is your scriptural reference to prove otherwise?

[matarisvan 0]

 

Who are these other Gaudiya Vaisnavas of which you speak who contradict the acaryas in disciplic succession?

The acaryas have every support from scripture. What is your scriptural reference to prove otherwise?

 

Srila Sanatan Goswami says,

 

"One who is initiated into the Vaishnava mantra and who is devoted to worshipping Lord Vishnu/Krishna is a Vaishnava. One who is devoid of these practices is not a Vaishnava."

[matarisvan 0]

 

The acaryas have every support from scripture. What is your scriptural reference to prove otherwise?

 

Calling your bluff....which scripture mentions christ-loka? If you cannot produce evidence then I suggest you keep silent and stop your long drawn nonsense on this forum.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

Shaivism is not interchangeable with Vaisnavism.

 

and Islam IS interchangeable with Vaisnavism?

 

There is FAR, FAR less difference between the cult of Lord Vishnu and the cult of Lord Shiva than between Vaishnavism and the Abrahamic religions. And that is based on opinions of most Vedic scholars, regardless of their afiliation.

[cbrahma 0]

 

and Islam IS interchangeable with Vaisnavism?

 

There is FAR, FAR less difference between the cult of Lord Vishnu and the cult of Lord Shiva than between Vaishnavism and the Abrahamic religions. And that is based on opinions of most Vedic scholars, regardless of their afiliation.

What is it with you Math guys, your logical inference skills are zero.

Where did I imply interchangeability?

[cbrahma 0]

 

Calling your bluff....which scripture mentions christ-loka? If you cannot produce evidence then I suggest you keep silent and stop your long drawn nonsense on this forum.

You'd probably take the same tone with Prabhupada. I didn't mention christ-loka so stop speculating nonsense.

[matarisvan 0]

 

You'd probably take the same tone with Prabhupada. I didn't mention christ-loka so stop speculating nonsense.

 

The same old hypocrisy and denial.

 

Originally Posted by cbrahma

The acaryas have every support from scripture. What is your scriptural reference to prove otherwise?

 

My Response

Calling your bluff....which scripture mentions christ-loka? If you cannot produce evidence then I suggest you keep silent and stop your long drawn nonsense on this forum.