On being merciful to other living beings

[theist 1]

 

TRANSLATION SB 4.12.36

The self-effulgent Vaikuntha planets, by whose illumination alone all the illuminating planets within this material world give off reflected light, cannot be reached by those who are not merciful to other living entities. Only persons who constantly engage in welfare activities for other living entities can reach the Vaikuntha planets.

 

PURPORT

Here is a description of two aspects of the Vaikuntha planets. The first is that in the Vaikuntha sky there is no need of the sun and moon. This is confirmed by the Upanishads as well as Bhagavad-gita (na tad bhasayate suryo na sasanko na pavakah [bg. 15.6]). In the spiritual world the Vaikunthalokas are themselves illuminated; there is therefore no need of sun, moon or electric light. It is in fact the illumination of the Vaikunthalokas which is reflected in the material sky. Only by this reflection are the suns in the material universes illuminated; after the illumination of the sun, all the stars and moons are illuminated. In other words, all the luminaries in the material sky borrow illumination from Vaikunthaloka. From this material world, however, people can be transferred to the Vaikunthaloka, if they incessantly engage in welfare activities for all other living entities. Such incessant welfare activities can really be performed only in Krishna consciousness. There is no philanthropic work within this material world but Krishna consciousness that can engage a person twenty-four hours a day.

A Krishna conscious being is always engaged in planning how to take all of suffering humanity back home, back to Godhead. Even if one is not successful in reclaiming all the fallen souls back to Godhead, still, because he is Krishna conscious, his path to Vaikunthaloka is open. He personally becomes qualified to enter the Vaikunthalokas, and if anyone follows such a devotee, he also enters into Vaikunthaloka. Others, who engage in envious activities, are known as karmis. Karmis are envious of one another. Simply for sense gratification, they can kill thousands of innocent animals. Jnanis are not as sinful as karmis, but they do not try to reclaim others back to Godhead. They perform austerities for their own liberation. Yogis are also engaged in self-aggrandizement by trying to attain mystic powers. But devotees, Vaishnavas, who are servants of the Lord, come forward in the actual field of work in Krishna consciousness to reclaim fallen souls. Only Krishna conscious persons are eligible to enter into the spiritual world. That is clearly stated in this verse and is confirmed in Bhagavad—gita, wherein the Lord says that there is no one dearer to Him than those who preach the gospel of Bhagavad-gita to the world.

 

In Krsna consciousness the importantance of working in the right consciousness, with the correct motivation is essential. Working for the eternal welfare of all living beings is how we can please Krsna.

 

We can be tricked here by maya in several ways. One way is to become attached to a religious institution and identify so strongly with it that one feels an increase in the numbers of that institution is actually an increase in one's own self. "My race...my nation...my religion".

 

Ahankara is the hurdle we must get past. Lord Caitanya taught... servant of the servant of the servant of Krsna's servant is our actual identity and occupation.

 

Beware of counterfeits.

[krsna 3]

 

In Krsna consciousness the importantance of working in the right consciousness, with the correct motivation is essential. Working for the eternal welfare of all living beings is how we can please Krsna.

 

We can be tricked here by maya in several ways. One way is to become attached to a religious institution and identify so strongly with it that one feels an increase in the numbers of that institution is actually an increase in one's own self. "My race...my nation...my religion".

 

Ahankara is the hurdle we must get past. Lord Caitanya taught... servant of the servant of the servant of Krsna's servant is our actual identity and occupation.

 

Beware of counterfeits.

 

“(One should) not try to imitate the powerful but simply follow their instructions;

nor should one try to occupy their posts without qualification.” Bhagavad-gita 3.24, purport.

[theist 1]

If that is meant as a referrence to not faking being merciful to others then fine otherwise I don't see the connection. Perhaps you could explain what you mean by the above quote.

 

But leaving aside the counterfeit how do we learn to become merciful instead of exploitive. Now there I see a connection to your above quote. We follow the instructions of those who have attained genuine mercy and are transparent mediums for the Lord's mercy.

 

Still we have to become intelligent enough to know how to apply that principle in our own individual lives.

 

If one day goes by and we have not helped another remember Krsna then have we not irretrievably wasted that time? Perhaps one could be excused if chanting japa, 300,000 names or something but otherwise not.

[Guest guest]

During japa, with srila prabhupada, a devotee swatted a mosquito. Srila Prabhupada frowned and said one word. "Aggressor!"

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[theist 1]

 

During japa, with srila prabhupada, a devotee swatted a mosquito. Srila Prabhupada frowned and said one word. "Aggressor!"

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

Refering to the mosquito or the devotee?

[Guruvani 0]

 

Refering to the mosquito or the devotee?

 

BINGO!

[krsna 3]

 

BINGO!

 

I want KRSNA's MERCY

and I want it NOW!

 

Can you please give me KRSNA's causeless mercy, pretty please?

 

 

I beg you,

Please don't hold back, ok?

[Tirisilex 0]

Ever since the day Krishna appeared to me in my mind I have felt like I have been in his mercy.. I've never felt so much love than in being in the presence of Krishna.. The more I learn the more it's like drinking the nectar of the gods.

 

I try to show mercy to all living things.. Like when I walk in the woods I prefer to blow them off me than slapping them (All though I ask for Krishnas forgiveness because I cant stand them and slap em..)

[krsna 3]

 

Ever since the day Krishna appeared to me in my mind I have felt like I have been in his mercy.. I've never felt so much love than in being in the presence of Krishna.. The more I learn the more it's like drinking the nectar of the gods.

 

I try to show mercy to all living things.. Like when I walk in the woods I prefer to blow them off me than slapping them (All though I ask for Krishnas forgiveness because I cant stand them and slap em..)

 

Gentle soul.

 

To such a person spiritual understanding, compassion and love of God

should come in due course naturally.

[theist 1]

 

TRANSLATION SB 1.2.16

O twice-born sages, by serving those devotees who are completely freed from all vice, great service is done. By such service, one gains affinity for hearing the messages of Vasudeva.

 

PURPORT

The conditioned life of a living being is caused by his revolting against the Lord. There are men called deva, or godly living beings, and there are men called asuras, or demons, who are against the authority of the Supreme Lord. In the Bhagavad-gita (Sixteenth Chapter) a vivid description of the asuras is given in which it is said that the asuras are put into lower and lower states of ignorance life after life and so sink to the lower animal forms and have no information of the Absolute Truth, the Personality of Godhead. These asuras are gradually rectified to God consciousness by the mercy of the Lord's liberated servitors in different countries according to the supreme will. Such devotees of God are very confidential associates of the Lord, and when they come to save human society from the dangers of godlessness, they are known as the powerful incarnations of the Lord, as sons of the Lord, as servants of the Lord or as associates of the Lord. But none of them falsely claim to be God themselves. This is a blasphemy declared by the asuras, and the demoniac followers of such asuras also accept pretenders as God or His incarnation. In the revealed scriptures there is definite information of the incarnation of God. No one should be accepted as God or an incarnation of God unless he is confirmed by the revealed scriptures.

The servants of God are to be respected as God by the devotees who actually want to go back to Godhead. Such servants of God are called mahatmas, or tirthas, and they preach according to particular time and place. The servants of God urge people to become devotees of the Lord. They never tolerate being called God. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was God Himself according to the indication of the revealed scriptures, but He played the part of a devotee. People who knew Him to be God addressed Him as God, but He used to block His ears with His hands and chant the name of Lord Vishnu. He strongly protested against being called God, although undoubtedly He was God Himself. The Lord behaves so to warn us against unscrupulous men who take pleasure in being addressed as God.

The servants of God come to propagate God consciousness, and intelligent people should cooperate with them in every respect. By serving the servant of God, one can please God more than by directly serving the Lord. The Lord is more pleased when He sees that His servants are properly respected because such servants risk everything for the service of the Lord and so are very dear to the Lord. The Lord declares in the Bhagavad-gita (18.69) that no one is dearer to Him than one who risks everything to preach His glory. By serving the servants of the Lord, one gradually gets the quality of such servants, and thus one becomes qualified to hear the glories of God. The eagerness to hear about God is the first qualification of a devotee eligible for entering the kingdom of God.

 

We can take note that mercy descends to the living beings via the empowered representatives of Krsna and His incarnations who act and distribute that mercy according to His supreme will.

 

It is not conjured up or manufactured by the conditioned souls apart from Krsna and His servants. We can also become merciful in our hearts and the process for awakening that dormant loving mercy is to cooperate with those rare souls who are empowered by the Lord to distribute His mercy.

 

First we have to accept the Lord's mercy into our own lives as receipients of His mercy. As we do so our hearts will also soften and become purified and it is only then that we can extend real mercy to others equally and without discrimination as to species, race or nationality. Soul to soul.

[Guest guest]

They are non-envious. They do what they do, not because they hate who they bite, but because they are supplying for their families. Swatting them while they do this duty is the envious act, not their collection of matter (our blood).

 

Anyway, ever see one mosquito? If killing one would relieve the problem, then maybe justified. But they come in the thousands, and we cannot squash all of them. The one or two we kill have large families that will immediately come after them. So, such killing not only is morally wrong, it is impractical way of relieving this adi bhautic problem. Citronella works much better.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

its not their bite that bothers me, its their singing. They think I want to hear so bad, they do their jam in my ear. When I lived in the rain forest, I would leave my arm out so they could munch away without the singing.

[theist 1]

 

They are non-envious. They do what they do, not because they hate who they bite, but because they are supplying for their families. Swatting them while they do this duty is the envious act, not their collection of matter (our blood).

 

Anyway, ever see one mosquito? If killing one would relieve the problem, then maybe justified. But they come in the thousands, and we cannot squash all of them. The one or two we kill have large families that will immediately come after them. So, such killing not only is morally wrong, it is impractical way of relieving this adi bhautic problem. Citronella works much better.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

its not their bite that bothers me, its their singing. They think I want to hear so bad, they do their jam in my ear. When I lived in the rain forest, I would leave my arm out so they could munch away without the singing.

 

Yes their intent is blameless but then so is a mountainlion's who is after lunch.

 

I would like to see them genetcially engineered to stop reproducing if that ever becomes possible, malaria spreading, blood sucking lil' demons that they are. Until then I avoid areas where there are and of course citronella is a God send.

 

One in Hawaii when I was in my crazyman phase I got hopelessly lost in those bamboo forests of Nuuanu up towards the Pali in the mountains. You know the ones I am sure.

 

I totally lost my sense of direction wandering through the thick bamboo. The fact that I had eaten a small handfull of magic shrooms may have contributed.

 

Anyway the crazy thing was I had to keep walking even though I had no idea which way to go. The second I stopped thousands of those giant Hawaiian buggas would descend on me with a vengence.

 

Somehow because of the shrooms it seemed like an uproariously funny cosmic event of some sort so I burst into laughter. Picture it, a crazyman wandering aimless in amongst the bamboo, with no idea where he was going, laughing out loud thinking he was one with the universe in some way.

 

Ahhh pyschedelics.....

[Guruvani 0]

how come Lord Ramacandra would kill deer with his bow?

[Guest guest]

 

Somehow because of the shrooms it seemed like an uproariously funny cosmic event of some sort so I burst into laughter. Picture it, a crazyman wandering aimless in amongst the bamboo, with no idea where he was going, laughing out loud thinking he was one with the universe in some way.

 

Ahhh pyschedelics.....

 

Respectfully submitted:

 

Prabhu, do you believe that psychedelics helped you in your quest for Krishna Consciousness? Do you feel nostalgic for those experiences(?): "Ahhh psychedelics..."

 

I'm just wondering because I've come across similar statements on this board and I'd like to know if some devotees feel (perhaps without admitting it openly) that drugs have helped them in some way.

 

Also, there has been a thread or two about the Grateful Dead, their concerts and lyrics here. I know some "Dead heads" and they are kind, loving people. A few of them even chant Hare Krishna and OM (next door neighbors in fact). So I wonder what's the connection. Are some of the lyrics of Grateful Dead songs purposely meant to be related to Krishna Consciousness, or is it just that some devotees see it that way? This was discussed in a thread here not long ago about "the Alligator song", I think. Sorry I'm not familiar with their songs. But I know that they attended the Mantra Dance Festival in the 1960s to help the San francisco temple. (From the book "Chant and be happy.")

 

I guess I'm asking these questions because I want to know how the underground culture relates to the Krishna culture.

 

Sorry if this is too nosy or intrusive. I don't meant to be disrespectful.

 

Thank you and Hare Krishna.

[theist 1]

 

Prabhu, do you believe that psychedelics helped you in your quest for Krishna Consciousness? Do you feel nostalgic for those experiences(?): "Ahhh psychedelics..."

 

Helped in a certain sense. Showed me that there was ALOTmore to reality then what appeared in normal sense perception. Helped me accept my existence beyond the mortal body.

 

Nostalgic? Yeah a little sometimes. But that is just a trick of conditioned memory which remembers the good times and selects out most of the negative. A song from that era makes me nostalgic in a similar way.

 

Pyschedelics may have a certain place for the heavily conditioned but there is no place for them once one has connected with a genuine spiritual path.

 

A big step up from TV though.

 

Grateful Dead songs? I was never into them even in the 60's. A couple good songs. George Harrison is a different story however.

 

I would not reccommend anyone take any drugs at all. Chanting Hare Krsna needs no artifical props from the mundane world to satisfy the self and awken our love for God and others.

 

Not too intrusive at all. I brought it up. Nor disrespectful in anyway.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your humble & informative reply.

 

It helps me to understand certain things, but I think I need to understand this more.

 

Every so often amidst all the quoting and debating here, someone will suddenly write about "Jah Love" or "Grateful Dead" songs, or the best places in Hawaii to surf, and various other seemingly-unrelated-to-Krishna topics. Usually I notice these comments come from the elders on this board. No offense intended here, just observation, for the sake of thoughtfulness and discussion, and wanting to know how this all fits in.

 

So I'm thinking about what I can retain in my own consciousness (and subconscious), and whether or not I have a choice anyway.

 

Another question that arises: Do devotees possibly have multiple personalities? For instance, there's the heavy-handed Gita-thumping, verse-quoting side - signed by the "Dasa" or "Dasi" side. But then suddenly the old hippy-dippy or punk-rock side shows up, even here in public. The so-called "karmi" side? Or the "T-shirt and blue jean Gaura Nitai kinda guy," as one devotee stated. (I actually like that by the way. Sounds more natural.)

 

If this is the case, then could it happen that those who like one another tolerate these things in their friends. But if another "unliked" devotee or personality says something similar, the same attitude could be labelled as "Maya." I'm not criticizing anyone, but just want to invite some feedback. (Maybe this is not important, and if so, please tell me that too.) I have also had some experience of this at a temple, so that's why I'm asking.

 

I just want to know what is real Krishna Consciousness in your understanding. Everything straight as an arrow from the books, or flexible according to one's conditioning, background and flavor of personality, blended with the knowledge in the books.

 

Thank you, and sorry if this is a weird way of looking at things, or if these are dumb questions.

 

Hare Krishna.

[Guruvani 0]

 

PURPORT

According to Vedic injunctions there are six kinds of aggressors: (1) a poison giver, (2) one who sets fire to the house, (3) one who attacks with deadly weapons, (4) one who plunders riches, (5) one who occupies another's land, and (6) one who kidnaps a wife. Such aggressors are at once to be killed, and no sin is incurred by killing such aggressors.

[krsna 3]

What is the philosophical (Vedic) stand regarding euthanasia, or assisted suicide? If we take the view of Law of Karma then we will let things be as they are unless it is for a higher cause. What is the highest principle in this matter?

 

 

Here are three statements about

euthanasia or mercy killing from Srila Prabhupada.

 

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27, 1972 (contd. on February 28, 1972 and February 29, 1972), Mayapura:

 

 

Srila Prabhupada: They say, "Oh, it is better to kill him than to give

him so much pain." That theory is coming in communist countries. An old man--grandfather--is suffering, so better to kill him. And

there--in Africa there is a class of men who make a festival by killing their great-grandfathers. Is it not? Yes.

Syamasundara: They eat them?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. [syamasundara laughs.] Yes?

Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.40 -- Surat, December 21, 1970:

Himavati: But then if you think further, that is that if you are going

to make a program to feed the animals in your house, then won't more and more animals come into your residence? Suppose I feed these rats and I go on feeding them. Won't more and more rats come?

Prabhupada: Well, the rats will be fed. Either you give or not, it

will steal. So that is not the problem. But if you give them food,

they will... Of course, that is Western philosophy, that because the

animals are increasing, they should be killed. We Indians also, we

have taken that view--because we cannot give protection to the cows,

they must be sent to the slaughterhouse. That is the modern view. But that is not injunction of the Vedas. The Vedas says that everyone has right to live, every living entity. That is going on not only in consideration of the animals, even in human beings. Just like the

Americans, they were all Europeans, and they entered this American

land, killed so many red Indians. So these kind of things are going

on, but that does not mean that is the law. You killed so many red

Indians for your benefit, but you have to suffer for that. So that...

This is going on in the human society, but that does not mean it is

dharma. No. Dharma means you have to abide by the regulation given by the Vedas. You have to adjust things. Sometimes in Africa the man-eaters, they kill their grandfather, make a feast. The Russians also, they maintain such theory, that old men, they should be neglected. I have heard. I do not know. They become burden. But that is not Vedic injunction.

Himavati: But isn't that natural, just like no one wants to keep an

old bull in the barn?

Prabhupada: Yes. These things are man-manufactured. Dharman tu saksad bhagavat pranitam. Therefore we have to accept the words of Narayana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is dharma.

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.56-57 -- Bombay, August 14, 1975:

So they are very... Householder, this is meant for the householder

especially. This is ideal householder, that guru, agni, atithi,

vrddhanam. Old man also should be taken care of. Nowadays the

philosophy is coming: "mercy-killing.Old men should be killed to

show him mercy." Because he is burden in the society, the communistic theory.... "Old man does not do anything and simply eats; therefore to show him mercy he should be killed.Mercy-killing." Just see the philosophy, "Killing is mercy." But this is going on. "Mercy-killing." Is that? "Mercy-killing"? What is that? Huh?

Brahmananda: They kill someone for that person's benefit.

Prabhupada: Benefit. So the man killer, will he take that benefit? If

somebody comes that "I shall kill you for your benefit," that he will

be afraid of, but he is philosophising, "mercy-killing." This is going

on. So one should be respectful also to the old men. According to

Vedic knowledge, brahmana, old men, child, woman, and cow--they have no fault. They are free. They are not within this jurisdiction of law. So therefore cow-killing, brahmana-killing, woman-killing, and

elderly-person-killing, they are accepted as the great sinful activities.

 

Garuda Purana 2.22.8-13:

"Those who meet with foul death such as

committing suicide by hanging from a tree, by poison or weapon, those who die of cholera, those who are burnt to death alive, those who die of foul and loathsome diseases or at the hands of robbers, those who are not cremated duly after death, those who do not follow sacred rites and conduct, those who do not perform Vrsotsarga and monthly pinda rites, those who allow sudras to bring sacrificial grass, twigs and other articles of homa, those who fall from mountains and die, those who die when walls collapse, those who are defiled by women in their menses, those who die in the firmament and those who are forgetful of Visnu, those who continue to associate with persons defiled due to births or death, those who die of dog-bitting or meet with death in a foul manner, become ghosts and roam over the earth."

[theist 1]

 

Persons who want to advance in superior religion are advised to give up all envy of other living entities, whether in relationship to the body, words or mind. There is no religion superior to this.

SB 7.15.8

 

How can one be merifully inclined to all other living beings while holding on to an envious attitude towards them?

 

The sage who has attained the vision of all beings as equal spiritual souls envies no one for he also has that same vision towards himself.

[theist 1]

 

From this material world, however, people can be transferred to the Vaikunthaloka, if they incessantly engage in welfare activities for all other living entities. Such incessant welfare activities can really be performed only in Krishna consciousness. There is no philanthropic work within this material world but Krishna consciousness that can engage a person twenty-four hours a day.

A Krishna conscious being is always engaged in planning how to take all of suffering humanity back home, back to Godhead. Even if one is not successful in reclaiming all the fallen souls back to Godhead, still, because he is Krishna conscious, his path to Vaikunthaloka is open. He personally becomes qualified to enter the Vaikunthalokas, and if anyone follows such a devotee, he also enters into Vaikunthaloka. Others, who engage in envious activities, are known as karmis. Karmis are envious of one another. Simply for sense gratification, they can kill thousands of innocent animals. Jnanis are not as sinful as karmis, but they do not try to reclaim others back to Godhead. They perform austerities for their own liberation. Yogis are also engaged in self-aggrandizement by trying to attain mystic powers. But devotees, Vaishnavas, who are servants of the Lord, come forward in the actual field of work in Krishna consciousness to reclaim fallen souls. Only Krishna conscious persons are eligible to enter into the spiritual world. That is clearly stated in this verse and is confirmed in Bhagavad—gita, wherein the Lord says that there is no one dearer to Him than those who preach the gospel of Bhagavad-gita to the world.4.12.36 purport

 

I see I forgot to embolden this in the opening post. Helping another become Krsna conscious is the perfection of being merciful.

[Guest guest]

 

I see I forgot to embolden this in the opening post. Helping another become Krsna conscious is the perfection of being merciful.

Can one help another becomes "Krsna Consciousness" if one is not himself conscious of Krsna? What is Krsna Consciousness? What if I am conscious of him, think of him all the time, but don't know him or haven't met him? I remember him and ask others to remember him. But none of us have known him really? On the basis of personal experience?

[Guest guest]

 

Can one help another becomes "Krsna Consciousness" if one is not himself conscious of Krsna? What is Krsna Consciousness? What if I am conscious of him, think of him all the time, but don't know him or haven't met him? I remember him and ask others to remember him. But none of us have known him really? On the basis of personal experience?

yes. this is interesting. Can one be conscious of Krsna without knowing him?

[theist 1]

 

Can one help another becomes "Krsna Consciousness" if one is not himself conscious of Krsna? What is Krsna Consciousness? What if I am conscious of him, think of him all the time, but don't know him or haven't met him? I remember him and ask others to remember him. But none of us have known him really? On the basis of personal experience?

 

This is addressed nicely in Krsna's post as quoted below.

 

 

“(One should) not try to imitate the powerful but simply follow their instructions;

nor should one try to occupy their posts without qualification.” Bhagavad-gita 3.24, purport.

 

Our rememberance of Krsna is a shadow of real rememberance, our thinking of Him is a shadow of real thinking of Him, just like our chanting is a shadow of chanting the pure name.

 

So how to bridge the gap? This is why Krsna appears in the person of His pure devotee whom He empowers with mercy towards we the suffering and totally lost living beings.

 

Our so-called mercy is also a shadowy imitation of real mercy but if we dovetail our "acts of mercy" in accordance with the instructions of Krsna's devotee then they will have real spiritual value in delivering the mercy to others. Not our mercy but Guru/Krsna's mercy. We act as tools of the devotee.

 

In doing so we also gain mercy. In fact the mercy of Krsna is made of this. Mercy is not some formless electrical force that descends on someone's head and just makes them glow like a light bulb. To act under the instructions of Krsna's devotee, to be engaged in His service IS the mercy.

 

So a devotee who is say chanting Hare Krsna on a street sankirtan is really in the dual position of distributing Lord Caitanya's mercy to those who have never heard of Krsna and receiving more of that mercy himself simultaneously by pleasing the Lord & the Lord's devotee. Krsna then becomes inclined to reveal more of Himself. Helping distribute the Lord's mercy is actually a very accelerated course in receiving mercy oneself.

 

Then in due course we will come to know Him and have our own direct and pure experience of Him.

 

By practicing the acts of mercy we desire to one day go beyond the practice stage to the stage of love and real heartfelt mercy.

[theist 1]

Frederick, we need a separate thread for your discussion. Start one up and we can continue.

[gHari 0]

Yes, Frederick hit on a fun topic. That's how we have some laughs ... at ourselves, our past, our society, at the seeming futility of telling people about God. And then you find someone who is really ready to hear it, and it all becomes worthwhile.

 

When we talk to folks in the world, it is rarely verses and kirtana. But a devotee can turn any conversation into a preaching opportunity. Just read Srila Prabhupada; he was a master at this.

 

Humour and satire are the tools of the outlander preacher, helping people laugh away their bondage while entertaining the masses like Bruce Almighty and Evan Almighty.