Ravana's Stairway to Heaven?

[Guruvani]

The Bhagavatam says that Ravana was trying to build a stairway to heaven.

I'm a little confused here.

Indraloka is millions of light years away.

 

If Ravana was such a greatly brilliant materialistic person with such an advanced civilization on Lanka, then how he could be so stupid as to think he could build a stairway to heaven millions of miles high?

 

Who could even climb that stairway if they managed to build it?

 

It just sounds really weird that even Ravana could possibly think he could build a stairway to heaven.

 

Does anybody know anything that would make this claim of the Bhagavatam sound a little more realistic?

 

did Ravana have some special rocket or something that he wanted to fly on the stairway to heaven.

 

I mean, how could even Ravana possibly think that anybody could build a stairway that is millions of miles high or that anybody could climb that far if he did?

 

I am having a problem trying to figure this out.

 

It just sounds so ridiculous that we are supposed to believe that some big demon thought he could build a stairway millions of miles high to heaven.

 

somebody help me................

[theist]

Just a fable about the fultility of trying to get to heaven via our own efforts vs. taking the God conscious path most likely.

[gHari]

http://vedabase.net/sb/1/3/22/en

[krsna]

 

The Bhagavatam says that Ravana was trying to build a stairway to heaven.

I'm a little confused here.

Indraloka is millions of light years away.

 

If Ravana was such a greatly brilliant materialistic person with such an advanced civilization on Lanka, then how he could be so stupid as to think he could build a stairway to heaven millions of miles high?

 

Who could even climb that stairway if they managed to build it?

 

It just sounds really weird that even Ravana could possibly think he could build a stairway to heaven.

 

Does anybody know anything that would make this claim of the Bhagavatam sound a little more realistic?

 

did Ravana have some special rocket or something that he wanted to fly on the stairway to heaven.

 

I mean, how could even Ravana possibly think that anybody could build a stairway that is millions of miles high or that anybody could climb that far if he did?

 

I am having a problem trying to figure this out.

 

It just sounds so ridiculous that we are supposed to believe that some big demon thought he could build a stairway millions of miles high to heaven.

 

somebody help me................

 

 

 

 

Rāvaṇa was one of them, and he wanted to deport ordinary men to the planet of Indra (heaven) by material means without consideration of the necessary qualifications. He wanted a staircase to be built up directly reaching the heavenly planet so that people might not be required to undergo the routine of pious work necessary to enter that planet. He also wanted to perform other acts against the established rule of the Lord.

 

There are no shortcuts to Heaven!

[Guest guest]

Some astute scholars have come to a conclusion that way back when, Indraloka was perched atop mt kailasa. There are even ancient drawings depicting the proximaty (sp). Many ancient lores, such as gilgamesh, samarian, akkadian, aryan, have concluded that the twelfth planet theory is actually correct. Some conclude that this planet exploded, sending venus spinning opposite all the other planets, blasting mars to inhabitability, tilting the earth on its axis and wobbling, etc. Others say the twelfth planet is on a pluto-type orbit (off the plate, so to speak).

 

Velakovski used the Visnu Purana with other lores to conclude that there was a time when gods and humans mingled, that the planet of gods would, every two years or so, come to perch atop Mt Meru. Their purpose was to visit their off-spring, the humans, who gave up their immortality in favor of pretence of enjoyment independent of the gods. The war of the nagas against the devas was always going on, the humans were in between.

 

Ravana was at the end of this time (my calculations is that he was here approximately 850,000 years ago). He was the last conqueror of the devas, and when he held them at bay, he actually did force them to serve him.

 

But, according to Velakovski, a "stairway to heaven" (or a tower of babel, for that matter) is not absurd as it seems today. There was a giant planet that seemed attainable, and someone like Ravana, very powerful and in full control, would certainly attempt such a thing.

 

Poor humans, always stuck in the middle. Ravana wanted to send them to Indra, who didnt care for them either. In my studies and recreational perusal of the lores, I sometimes like Ravana more than Indra. Sometimes I think they are the same person, two sides of the same coin. Ravanas problem is that he was a jerk with too much disdain for women. His wife, monohari, was the daughter of the great magician, Maya, and was unmatched in charm and beauty. But gods and devils cant keep their stinkin paws off earth women. Even the old testament decries this perversion.

 

Stairway to heaven? Back then, practical, maybe when the twelfth planet returns (Zacharaih Stitchen's theory, gleaned from samarian archives), again practical. Foolish, but not stupid.

 

mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Immanuel Velikovsky

 

 

There’s nothing like a massive and profound reconstruction of ancient history to really upset Egyptologists, archeologists, and other members of the “old guard of this is the way we’ve always done it so take your evidence and go away”. This was particularly the case when Immanuel Velikovsky, who after years of study, informed the world that:

 

vEarth, Mars, and Venus had suffered catastrophic near-collisions in historic times,

 

vSun Stand Thou Still in Joshua’s time was a reality,

 

vThe history of ancient Egypt contains 580 imaginary years, and among other things,

 

vThe Earth was without the Moon in historical times.

 

Immanuel Velikovsky is the author of Worlds in Collision, Ages in Chaos, Ramses II and His Time, Peoples of the Sea, Earth in Upheaval, and Oedipus and Akhnaton. Today, many scholars are calling Immanuel Velikovsky a scientific genius, maintaining an archive of his work, while others are acknowledging or vindicating his work on numerous critical points. But this has not always been the case.

 

Upon the publication of Worlds in Collision in 1950, Velikovsky was nearly laughed out of science, the publisher of his book was forced (because of its large number of academic textbooks) to sell the best-selling publishing rights to another non-academic publisher, and since then, the old guard has done everything in its power to discredit the very idea of Near-Earth Objects (and thus the possibility of collisions) and even the remote possibility of any reconstruction of history. In the latter vein, one history student, Kelly Kincaid, wrote her senior thesis on the idea that if new evidence was found which contradicted history, could the “official” history then be changed -- only to find her history professor so incensed by her example (one from Velikovsky) that he, by example, proved her thesis that indeed history could not be changed from mere evidence.

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

In Velikovsky’s own words

 

“When the manuscript of Worlds in Collision was first offered to the publisher (Macmillan Company, New York) it contained a brief story of the Deluge and of the cataclysm that terminated the Old Kingdom in Egypt. But after one of the publisher’s readers suggested that the book should concentrate on one event, we compromised in presenting in the published volume two series of cataclysms -- those that took place in the fifteenth century before the present era and were caused by the near-approaches of Venus, and those that occurred in the eighth century before this era and were caused by the near-approaches of Mars. The unused material was left for elaboration in a separate work on “Saturn and the Flood” and “Jupiter of the Thunderbolt.” The reception of Worlds in Collision, however, made me understand that I had already offered more than was palatable. And so I did not hurry with what I consider to be the heritage of our common ancestors, an inheritance of which my contemporaries in the scientific circles preferred not to partake.

 

“Researching and writing this book, I would sit at the feet of the sages of many ancient civilizations -- one day of the Egyptian learned scribes, another of the Hebrew ancient rabbis, the next of the Hindus, Chinese, or the Pythagoreans. But then, rising to my feet, I would confer with present-day scientific knowledge. At times I came to understand what perplexed the ancients, and at other times I found answers to what perplexes the moderns. This shuttle back and forth was a daily occupation for a decade or more, and it became a way to understand the phenomena: to listen to those who lived close to the events of the past, even to witnesses, and to try to understand them in the light of the theoretical and experimental knowledge of the last few centuries, in this manner confronting witnesses and experts.

 

“I realized very soon that the ancient sages lived in a frightened state of mind, justified by the events they or their close ancestors had witnessed. The ancients’ message was an anguished effort to communicate the awe engendered at seeing nature with its elements unchained. The moderns, however, denied their ancestors’ wisdom, even their integrity, because of an all-embracing fear of facing the past, even the historically documented experiences of our progenitors, as recent as four score generations ago.

 

“I have deliberately described the catastrophes of the second and first millennia before this era before I describe the catastrophes of the previous ages. The reason is obvious: the history of catastrophes is extremely unsettling to the historians, evolutionists, geologists, astronomers, and physicists. Therefore it is preferable to start from the better known and then proceed to the less known. For the last catastrophe caused by the contact of Mars and the Earth I could establish the year, the month, and even the day; not so for the catastrophes in which Venus and the Earth participated, when only the approximate time in the space of a definite century could be established. Still, I found it advisable to narrate the story of the second millennium first: it was possible to write the story of the contacts with Venus with a fair amount of detail. But each cataclysm is not only more remote in time from us, it is also obscured by the catastrophes that followed. As we seek to penetrate ever deeper into the past, we can see the foregoing periods through the veil of the catastrophes; dimmer and dimmer is the light behind every veil, till our eye can distinguish no more behind the veil that hangs over the period When the Earth was Moonless, though already inhabited by human life [Lunatics?]. We do not know the beginning; we can only enter the theater at what may have been the third or fourth act.”

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Velikovsky’s second major book was Ages in Chaos, in which he offended that small group of Egyptologists whom he had missed with Worlds in Collision. Ages in Chaos is nothing less than a reconstruction of ancient history -- one which has curious attribute of making sense. In other words, ancient Egyptian Prehistory and its later dynastic histories must somehow correlate with the histories of nations and cultures which abound in the same time and space as the ancient Egyptians. [Otherwise, we’d have the classic solution to the current Middle East Conflicts: Simply place the opposing sides in different time eras so that they can no longer interact! Just don’t tell anyone Who’s on First!]

 

Other fascinating books of Velikovsky include: Ramses II and His Time, Peoples of the Sea, Oedipus and Akhnaton, Mankind in Amnesia, and Earth in Upheaval. The latter is a “documentation of global catastrophes in prehistorical, [prehysterical], and in historical times -- the clear, unequivocal testimony of bones and stones.” In this fascinating volume, Velikovsky demonstrates that Catastrophism is fundamentally a part of Evolution, and that the generally accepted, agonizingly slow, gradualism of Evolution is only a portion of the total picture. Sometimes, something dramatic happens -- e.g. Adam and Eve, Deluge, The Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, Science and Religion (as in a compromise between Evolution and Creationism).

 

Quite obviously, as one encounters questions of When the Earth was Moonless -- as well as other topics, i.e. Deification of the Planets, The Planetary Initiation of Ages, or Hebrew Cosmogony -- one begins to realize the immensity of history, archaeology, and virtually every other relevant subject which is not even touched upon in our public schools (nor the vast majority of private schools)! These grotesque failings of our system of Communications, Media, Education, Compulsory Education, and The Public School Nightmare become ever more evident.

 

Think about it.

 

Meanwhile, you might look up The Velikovsky Affair [Alfred de Grazia, Ed. University Books, New Hyde Park, NY, 1966] for an exercise in the irrationalities of mainstream science when confronted with uncomfortable new science.

 

 

mahaksadasa: There is another researcher who has delved more into the history of Bharat avarsa from a plate techtonic standard. Ill try to find if there is interest.

 

Bottom line, the simplest things, like the appearance of a teardrop, are impossible to verify by any process, scientific or otherwise. Agitators like velikovski are not unlike the likes of Socrates, Plato, Lord Jesus Christ, and other rejectors of conventional wisdom.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

They were a lot taller so distance is relative to the size of people that existed then.

[theist]

 

Some astute scholars have come to a conclusion that way back when, Indraloka was perched atop mt kailasa.

 

Indraloka was perched on top of kailasa? And where was kailasa? Do you mean to say Indraloka was on top of the Himalaya's?

[theist]

 

Agitators like velikovski are not unlike the likes of Socrates, Plato, Lord Jesus Christ, and other rejectors of conventional wisdom.

 

It is one thing to agitate against convential thinking and quite another to replace it with the truth, and that is the real standard to follow. And of truths only those that directly advance our spiritual understanding have any value.

 

I do not see how accepting a Ravanna building a literal stairway to heaven brings us closer to God. On the other hand by seeing the message behind the myth does advance us. It teaches the futility of trying for heaven or (happiness even) by material arrangement.

 

Of course as long as one takes the message I don't think it matters if anyone considers the story myth or literal fact. Nor should anyone insist others accept it as literal fact mistaking that as the message itself.

[theist]

 

They were a lot taller so distance is relative to the size of people that existed then.

 

LOL Sure it makes a big difference if you are six feet tall compared to ten feet tall when talking about light years in distance.

 

A light year is the distance light travels in one years time.

[Guest guest]

"You have hinted about the value of concentration and in the stories from the Bhagavatam and Mahabharata, but I do not exactly follow what you mean by this. The statements in the Bhagavatam and Mahabharata and the Puranas are all different historical incidents. Mahabharata is called, according to Vedic authorities, as the history of India. I do not know who first designated it as an "epic.'' That is the cause of the falldown of Hindu culture. They did not believe in their Vedic literatures presented by Vyasadeva. They are not stories after all. Stories are imaginary, but they are not imaginary. They are actual facts. But such historical facts are not chronological; but for the teaching of the commonplace people some of the important incidents of history are there. It is said saram saram samud dhritva. This means only the essential facts have been collected, and they are put together in the shape of Puranas, Mahabharata, etc."

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Mr. Kair -- Los Angeles 8 July, 1969

[Guest guest]

the stairway to heaven is impossible except for a few such as brahma.

probably what is being implied here is a stairway to a portal which takes you to heaven.

supposedly, there are many portals that take you to different locations in the universe. only in india of course.

shiva is on kailasa. again, it is being implied there is a portal there to his abode.

also, i have heard it is close to impossible for a human to get there. must be in the toppest extreme shape. extreme freezing cold and all types of death traps. there are extremely tiny slits in remote mountains in the Himalayas where you begin your journey. astral bodies will not work to see it, creator made sure you cannot see some portals.

 

I keep hearing Shangri-La that perfect city. I believe this is a name of some average city in heaven.

[Guest guest]

This is my way of thinking. Multiversal, multi-dimensional. This is what the physicists conclude, and some, way ahead of their time (or behind, catching up on long lost science), like tesla, have been able to utilize.

 

UFOs (meaning ET beings) are only possible thru portals. There is no way the depths of space can be covered with the extent of our present sciences, even radio, micro and other wave theories.

 

And, yes, according to theory based partially on Visnu Purana, a contemporary (I forget his name) of velikovski, the planet hovered atop the himalayas. Ive seen paintings of the planet resting atop the great mountain, very old ones, some new agey.

 

Ill do the research, it is very interesting and mind boggling as the theory seemed to verify the same events and proved by the lores of diverse cultures around the world. The Puskara Chariot of Lord Rama, as well as the wheel of Ezekhial, the positioning of the twelve points of astrology, so much stuff. Entertaining, and we can see the truth explored by the empiric methodology.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[theist]

thx mods

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Something like this maybe?

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator

[theist]

I don't want to be misunderstood here. I also accept the existence of demi-gods and multi-dimensions that intersect with our own at particular times and places and worlds more fantastic then our minds have been able to imagine.

 

I just don't see any relevance for stories from those dimensions upon our earthly spiritual path.

 

I also believe that fables and myths have been used to illustrate important lessons and truths that are relevant to our spiritual progress and that these fables and myths are not based on actual happenings.

 

I believe the actual happenings of those other worlds are probably far more fantastic then any fable or myth that we have.

[Guruvani]

well, I am searching for some answers.

 

We know that Ravana was performing severe penances to achieve material perfection.

 

I am thinking that somehow this "stairway to heaven" must be some sort of metaphysical contraption or mystic process with which seemingly ordinary human beings could use to transport themselves to Indraloka where all the hot heavenly babes are.(Star Trek anyone?)

 

Certainly, it must be something more than a ladder or a tower that Ravana was working on.

 

He obviously had great mystical powers.

 

Maybe he was about to crack the code on some asuric method of interplanetary travel and the devas in heaven were starting to freak-out?

 

The "stairway to heaven" of Ravana was surely something other than a ladder system.

He was into mysticism and mystic powers.

 

I really don't know anything about the Ramayana, but I would suspect that there might be some clues to this mystery in that book.

 

I was hoping that somebody here was familiar with Ramayana and could shed some light on this mystery of Ravana's stairway to heaven.

 

Heck, if I could crack the code, I might even consider trying to take that stairway to heaven myself.

 

But, if a great asura like Ravana couldn't pull it off, then what are my chances?

[Murali_Mohan_das]

I dunno about the Stairway to Heaven, but, when we were kids in the Gurukula, we used to go swimming in the ocean by "Ravana's Palace" near L.A. (Chevron El Segundo Oil Refinery):

[Murali_Mohan_das]

The story of Ram and Ravana is history for the faithful. For those with a little insight, the realization that these things are ongoing comes.

 

Ravana is *still* trying to build his stairway...out of:

 

Viagra

Botox

Lipitor

Las Vegas

"American Dream"

Internet

[Guruvani]

 

The story of Ram and Ravana is history for the faithful. For those with a little insight, the realization that these things are ongoing comes.

 

Ravana is *still* trying to build his stairway...out of:

 

Viagra

Botox

Lipitor

Las Vegas

"American Dream"

Internet

 

don't forget:

 

prestige

position

disciples

 

and last but not least "GBC approval"

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Ha! Funny!

 

And, if a stairway to Indraloka (which is still in the material universe) is an absurd idea, how much more absurd is the idea of building a stairway to Goloka!??!!

 

 

don't forget:

 

prestige

position

disciples

 

and last but not least "GBC approval"

[Guruvani]

I hate to be the one to break the news, but heaven is not Goloka or Vaikuntha.

 

Heaven is the planet of Lord Indra.

it's just a material planet in the universe.

 

Nobody there is in "rasa vigrah".

 

 

They are all in maya.

 

That planet will be turned into dust by Lord Shiva someday along with all the other material planets.

 

heaven?

huh...... not really.

 

Heaven is just a wil-o-the-wisp.

[Guest guest]

The staiway to heaven is yet another verse which is written for non-technical people, to give them some idea of what transpired. It relates to the attempt to access heavenly realm by means other than pious activities and reincarnation.

 

The portal to heavenly realm opens through the sacred fire - that is how yajna offerings are passed to the demigods, and that is how the sacrificial animal travels upwards. You can also sometimes see the gods in that fire. That is also how the Naga snakes were killed in the sacrifice performed by Maharaja Janamejaya - they were pulled into the sacrificial fire from their own realm - that is how the portal was open to lower worlds as well, including all the cases when various demons were called from the Netherworld by the yajna masters (the story of Tvasta, etc.).

[Guest guest]

 

I hate to be the one to break the news, but heaven is not Goloka or Vaikuntha.

 

Heaven is the planet of Lord Indra.

it's just a material planet in the universe.

 

Nobody there is in "rasa vigrah".

 

 

They are all in maya.

 

That planet will be turned into dust by Lord Shiva someday along with all the other material planets.

 

heaven?

huh...... not really.

 

Heaven is just a wil-o-the-wisp.

 

Did Lord Shiva come and tell you this,when is that going to happen?Give me the exact dates.

How did you get this great knowledge,i want to have you as my GURU,will you teach me everything..You seem to know all,do you see Ravana working extra time,does he have 10 heads or just one now,enlighten me..

So what is there in GOLOKA,sounds a very gay place,if there is just one man(Krsna)and we all dancing around him,heaven sounds more fun....

[Guruvani]

 

Did Lord Shiva come and tell you this,when is that going to happen?Give me the exact dates.

How did you get this great knowledge,i want to have you as my GURU,will you teach me everything..You seem to know all,do you see Ravana working extra time,does he have 10 heads or just one now,enlighten me..

So what is there in GOLOKA,sounds a very gay place,if there is just one man(Krsna)and we all dancing around him,heaven sounds more fun....

 

read everything on this website and then I will consider accepting you as a disciple.....

 

http://www.atmatattva.com/