The Gaudiya Math Split Post 1937, Finn Madsen

[Guruvani 0]

 

"The secretary of the Sri Gaudiya Math, Sripada Kunjabihari Vidyabhusasa is

 

Another meaning we can see in this statement is "he can't be treasurer".

or "don't let him get his hands on the treasury".

 

Senior disciples had been complaining for years that Kunja Babu was embezzling funds from the Gaudiya Matha.

 

So, Srila Saraswati Thakur wrote it on the walls at the Matha that Kunja Babu would be "secretary" and NOT treasurer.

[Guruvani 0]

We also need to think about what might have happened had not Kunja Babu come along with his big fund raising mentality and and causing Srila Saraswati Thakur to have to build temples and Mathas to find some way to use that money up before it got embezzled and wasted.

 

Just think if the mission of Srila Saraswati Thakur had been more of a grass roots movement like Mahaprabhu's movement in South India?

 

Actually, Mahaprabhu's grassroots movement in South India was the true prototype of what Mahaprabhu wanted his Sankirtan movement to be.

 

Kunja Babu came along and built up a big institutional organization that actually became a headache to Srila Saraswati Thakur who lamented openly that he would be willing to sell off the marble in the temples to print books and push the grassroots movement ahead.

(but, Kunja Babu would never have allowed that)

 

So, of course, when Srila Saraswati Thakur knew his time was coming to depart, he mostly left the bricks and mortar to the man that had been responsible for so much of the actual development of the institutional organization.

 

But really, Srila Saraswati Thakur lamented that he would have preferred to print books instead of building temples.

 

But, Kunja Babu was about buildings and fund-raising.

 

The grassroots movement of Mahaprabhu has suffered because of this kind of thinking.

 

Srila Saraswati Thakur was not at all satisfied with the how this institutional situation had become a source of weakness and dependence for some of his so-called leading disciples as they quarrelled and bickered over position and prestige in these Mathas.

 

We know for sure that the legacy of Srila Saraswati Thakur had really nothing to do with buildings and properties.

[Vikram Ramsundar 0]

Greetings to all,

 

I haven't disappeared after initiating this most interesting of discussions. But I'm very busy and cannot post long analyses right now. I will, however, get back as soon as I can put aside some sufficient time. I knew this was gonna be a sensitive area but did not quite expect the flurry of frenzied replies. Personally, I try to remain as objective, detached and dispassionate as possible when evaluating material, so I do not quite approve of the highly emotional responses of some, but I believe in live and let live. As the old adage goes, to each his own.

 

Lowborn and Muralidhar are evidently the two devotees with the greatest knowledge and experience of the Gaudiya Math by a long, long shot, and I have certainly learned and enriched my mind from their contributions the most. Though I would myself lean towards the arguments put forward by Lowborn more, many of Muralidhar's points without a shadow of a doubt do carry substantial weight. Otherwise, good going so far.

 

Regards

[Guest guest]

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was very concerned to keep his elementary class intact for their own good. For this reason Prabhupada made so many apparent attacks for "preaching purposes" against his godbrothers. In present day Iskcon despite the fact that so many years have passed and despite so many other statements by Swami Prabhupada especially at the very end of his manifest lila, foolish neophytes continue to offend exalted Saraswat Gaudiya Vaisnavas. Despite the fact that Guruvani aka Ksamabuddhi was a member of a western extension of the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math during the time of Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar-deva Goswami Maharaja he appears to not have learned the proper lessons that such an experience should render forth.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was very concerned to keep his elementary class intact for their own good. For this reason Prabhupada made so many apparent attacks for "preaching purposes" against his godbrothers. In present day Iskcon despite the fact that so many years have passed and despite so many other statements by Swami Prabhupada especially at the very end of his manifest lila, foolish neophytes continue to offend exalted Saraswat Gaudiya Vaisnavas. Despite the fact that Guruvani aka Ksamabuddhi was a member of a western extension of the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math during the time of Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar-deva Goswami Maharaja he appears to not have learned the proper lessons that such an experience should render forth.

 

The fact is, people like you have not even mastered the "elementary" principles, practices and philosophy of bhakti-yoga, yet you presume to go on to some higher level.

 

You can't even graduate "elementary" school, yet you claim to be on some higher level of understanding.

 

If ISKCON is elementary, then the rest of them are pre-school, because at least Srila Prabhupada gave Srimad Bhagavatam and Sri Caitanya Caritamrita to his followers.

 

That is more than the rest of them have done.

 

So, maybe you should try to graduate pre-school and then go on to Srila Prabhupada's college of the Bhagavat.

 

Sri Caitanya Caritamrita is said to be the topmost book on the teachings of Mahaprabhu, so there is certainlty nothing "elementary" about what Srila Prabhupada gave.

[Guest guest]

 

 

Sri Caitanya Caritamrita is said to be the topmost book on the teachings of Mahaprabhu, so there is certainlty nothing "elementary" about what Srila Prabhupada gave.

You are side stepping the issue. As Srila Sridhar Maharaja has explained, sometimes a professor will have to come down and teach the brand new students the elementary lessons. This doesn't mean that the professor could not also teach graduate students in a college for he is fully qualified. The most fully qualified Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was a transcendental professor of the highest order and he translated and purported the highest spiritual literatures. Yet at the same time he had a large group of students who were from a culture foreign to Vedic India. That foreign culture is really the culture of cow slaughter and other degradations and this is the most ignorant environment in which he so mercifully preached Krsna bhakti.

Who in Iskcon really dove deeply into Caitanya Caritamrta in the 1970's, maybe a rare person or a handful? So most of his letters and conversations were with confused newcomers whether pot washers or GBCs. Prabhupada tried to keep the newcomers in the elementary class for if most of them were to go to the hear from others they would have become confused and begin to doubt Prabhupada due to their lack of digesting ability. So to prevent this in the first place Prabhupada feigned some disrespect, and antagonism towards his godbrothers which a the end of his pastimes he recanted and told , "the war is over". After decades many still cannot grasp this concept, so what to do? This doesn't mean that Prabhupada had some godbrothers that he respected more than others. It also doesn't mean that he didn't have issues with Kunja Babu, Srila Bhakti Vilas Tirtha Maharaja. It just means that I'm sure that he does not appreciate your disrespectful attitude.

[Guest guest]

Last post was by Guest79

[Guruvani 0]

 

So to prevent this in the first place Prabhupada feigned some disrespect, and antagonism towards his godbrothers which a the end of his pastimes he recanted and told , "the war is over". After decades many still cannot grasp this concept, so what to do?

Srila Prabhupada didn't "feign" any disrespect for those Godbrothers.

 

He admitted that he had been "at war" with his Godbrothers throughout his years of building ISKCON.

 

I think it is ludicrous to say that Srila Prabhupada battled these Godbrothers in a "war" for over a decade and relentlessly attempted to keep his disciples away from the Gaudiya Matha and then at the end wanted all his disciples to just cozy-up to all these Godbrothers and forget that anything every happened.

 

"the war is over"

 

Sure, "the war is over" because Srila Prabhupada was not going to be around anymore to fight the war.

He had been fighting the "war" for over a decade.

 

Now, all his disciples were just supposed to forget about the "war" and kiss-up to the Gaudiya Matha?

 

I don't think so.

 

How could Srila Prabhupada fight a long and hard battle with the Gaudiya Matha in front of his disciples for over 10 years and say so all sorts of negative things about them and order his disciples time and time again to stay away from them and then just before his passing expect that all the ISKCON devotees were just going to forget all that and buddy-up to the Gaudiya Matha?

 

I don't think so.

 

I think that what Srila Prabhupada hammered into this disciples for over a decade about his Godbrothers can't just be erased and swept under the rug by four words "the war is over".

 

He admitted that he had been "AT WAR" for over a decade.

 

How in the world is that all supposed to be turned around with four words in his last days?

 

Srila Prabhupada passed away in November of 1977.

Just a few months before that he was still firing away at the Godbrothers of the Gaudiya Matha.

 

So, not everybody buys into the concept that "the war is over" means that the disciples of Srila Prabhupada can ignore a decade of prohibition about association with the Gaudiya Matha Godbrothers.

 

For many devotees, there is nothing that can ever undo a decade of war with the Gaudiya Matha.

 

If a King fights a ten year battle with an enemy and then dies, can it be expected that now everyone in the Kingdom is just going to run over to the enemy and start kissing his backside?

 

Not hardly.

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada made this clear at the last stage of his life. He was never pleased if any disciple had the audacity to criticize his godbrothers. For him to have fights with his brothers is not offensive, but his brothers are our spiritual masters, period.

 

What Sriman Babhru said is correct as I remember. I was rather surprised, as BV Tirtha mahgaraja was very inimical to Srila Prabhupada. However, Srila Prabhupada, although disagreeing, never even came close to questioning the affection of Tirtha Maharaja, nor his sincerity in service to their common father, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. Srila Prabhupada was most saddened at the psassing of Sri Tirtha Maharaja, and stated that he went immediately back to godhead, to assist his spiritual master in his pastimes.

 

So, Prabhupada tells us at the end of his manifest pastimes, "The war is over." So who keeps fighting after the general says the war is over? Aswattama, that is who, the most wretched personality is shastra and the histories. His general, Duryodhana, in fact was so displeased with him that he cursed him to wander in eternity with open wet sores.

[Guruvani 0]

"the war is over" has never been documented and is simply hearsay.

 

You can't undo ten years of war with hearsay.

 

What Srila Prabhupada taught for more than a decade is set in stone.

 

You can't undo that with hearsay.

 

There is no published evidence that Srila Prabhupada ever said the "war is over".

 

So, we should go by the letters, instructions and what is in the books - not hearsay.

 

I am not going to forget about what is in the letters and books over some rumor that Prabhupada said "the war is over".

 

It's just a rumor - nothing more.

[muralidhar_das 0]

Mahaprabhu said:

 

be humbler than a blade of grass, more tolerant than a tree

offer respects to everyone (even Jagai and Madhai, what to speak of Kunja Da)

if you do this, you can chant the Name of Hari

 

Kshamabuddhi I don't know why you refuse to follow this most elementary instruction. You are a lonely many today, with few friends.

 

Nothing will change, if you don't change.

[muralidhar_das 0]

The war is over.

 

And before the war, Kshamabuddhi, your revered Guru Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada approached Srila Bhakti Vilasa Tirtha Maharaj and asked him for sannyasa.

 

Tirtha Maharaj said no. He gave some conditions and if they weren't fulfilled the answer was no.

 

After that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada went to Keshava Maharaj and took sannyasa and went to America. After going to the USA Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada performed a miracle and spread the seeds of Krishna bhakti all over the world. But before going to America he had not performed any miracles in the almost 25 years that had passed since the time of the disappearance of Srila Saraswati Thakura. In fact, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had not become famous in the Gaudiya Math in those 25 years because of any grand SUCCESSES because he had not had any successes at all. His godbrothers offered him respect but he had not shown his Acharya-Leela then, so nobody knew anything about that.

 

He was not an Acharya, he was an enthusiastic servant of his Guru - but he had not done any noteworthy service in those 25 years.

 

In the same time period, Bhakti Saranga Goswami, Srila Keshava Maharaja, Sripad Madhava Maharaj, my Guru Maharaj, Yajabara Maharaj, etc. had opened lots of temples and initiated tens of thousands of disciples.

 

The attached image is a picture of the Vaishnava Acharyas who left the Gaudiya Math in 1940 and began preaching independently from the Gaudiya Math & Gaudiya Mission. The photo was taken at the time of the grand meeting of Vaishnavas at the home of Sakhi Charan Raya in Kolkata. They were seriously dedicated to spreading the Mission of Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura, and they succeeded. The Gurus pictured in this image have initiated literally tens of thousands of devotees. Srila Abhay Charan De Prabhu became affilated with this group of devotees for a while. A temple was opened above the home and chemist shop of Abhay Charan Prabhu in Sitabannerjee Lane Kolkata, and the boy in the right side of the picture who is holding a mrdanga became the "manager" and Pujari at that temple. That boy with the mrdanga also became the first distributor of "Back to Godhead" magazine. That boy is now an Acharya and he has initated thousands of disciples.

 

Anyhow, we often hear ISKCONites criticizing the Godbrothers of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, saying those godbrothers had little success in their preaching. But if the amassing of "men and money" is the criteria that you judge success by, what sort of devotee are you? Kanistha.

 

This is the truth.

[muralidhar_das 0]

Finn Masden makes a number of fundamental errors in his presentation.

 

1) He didn't grasp the real status of Kunja Da (Bhakti Vilasa Tirtha Maharaj) within the Gaudiya Math of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura.

 

2) He failed to mention the sexual fall of Anantavasudev

 

3) He neglected to mention that after Anantavasudeva's fall, perhaps in 1940, many of the leading sannyasis, brahmacaris and married devotee supporters left the Gaudiya Math.

 

4)

Masden states that Anantavasudeva took "samnyas from Rupavilasa Brahmachari with the sannyas name Bhakti Prasad Puri Goswami". How a brahmacari could give sannyasa is not explained. He also said "Rupavilasa Brahmachari .. later became Bhagavat Maharaja and acharya from 1982-1993".

I met Bhagavat Maharaj when he was Acharya of Bagh Bazaar Gaudiya Mission. I spent about a half hour talking with him in 1983.

 

5) Masden's poorly researched article does not provide other important details about the Gaudiya Math breakup, such as the fact that when the sannyasis and brahmacaris left the Gaudiya Math in 1940 they did not join Kunja Babu (Bhaktivilasa Tirtha) because they also felt Kunja Babu had acted in a disruptive way when he walked out of the first GBC meeting. Masden really had only a very small understanding of the complexity of the situation that developed after the disappearance of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura.

[Guruvani 0]

Murali,

The war will never be over.

 

Even if the war was over for me, it will never be over for the leadership of ISKCON.

I think the policy to keep Gaudiya Matha influence out of ISKCON is the right policy.

I agree with that 100%.

 

That is my opinion.

 

Gaudiya Matha influence should never be allowed in ISKCON.

 

If you don't like it, then too bad.

 

That's just the way it is.

 

ISKCON needs Srila Prabhupada, not the Gaudiya Matha.

[Shakti-Fan 0]

 

 

I think the policy to keep Gaudiya Matha influence out of ISKCON is the right policy....ISKCON needs Srila Prabhupada, not the Gaudiya Matha.

So internal factions within Iskcon and its sphere of influence, offshoots etc. can continue to quarrel about:

1. guru tattva - mostly rtvik vs. regular guru

2. the origin of the soul

3. the position of Laxmi Narayana relative to Radha Krsna

4. the position of Srila B.V. Swami in relation to his guru and godbrothers

5. the editing of Srila B.V. Swami's books

6. the position of the GBC and local temple management

7. the postion of the Gaudiya Math and its expansions in relation to Iskcon.

AND SO ON, AND SO ON AD FINITUM

They say that Prabhupada's books are the final authority but everyone argues over the interpretations. They say that the GBC is the final living authority but only the new bhaktas really follow and respect the GBC. The GBCs don't really follow their own laws and rules, and mostly don't respect each other and everyone in Iskcon except brand new people knows it. For instance there is no way to stop Satsvarupa Prabhu from writing mundane sex novels and dedicating then to Prabhupada for Iskcon is sunk in scandals the GBC is mirred in deep internal politics.

MEANWHILE THE ISKCON BRANCH OF THE CAITANYA TREE IS BECOMING PARALYZED and they continue to pass stool on the "Gaudiya Math".

[muralidhar_das 0]

ISKCON is irrelevant to me.

 

Most devotees I know, including many disciples of past ISKCON gurus such as Tamal and Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Maharaj l know feel the same way.

 

Actually ISKCON isn't totally irrelvant. It is more of an embarassment.

 

For me the big problem is that if I walk out my front door wearing the tilak of my Parampara and go travelling around, talking to people on the street or on trains, I always have do deal with the inevitable question "are you a Hare Krishna" or "are you with ISKCON". I always answer "No". Nearly every new (white bodied) person I have tried to talk to about Krishna and Mahaprabhu ask me about the HK's. Ordinary people think the HK's are a cult. I don't disagree with that conclusion. Indian people are more sympathetic to ISKCON but maybe they are naive. I feel embarassed when people mention the Hare Krishna's because ordinary people know a lot about the Hare Krishna's and what they know is not good. What they know is true, but not good.

[Beggar 0]

 

ISKCON is irrelevant to me.

 

 

 

Get real and control your emotions, Guruvani is just trying to push everyone's buttons. If it wasn't for Srila B.V. Swami Prabhupada and his ISKCON mission none of us would have never heard of Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar-deva Goswami Maharaja. Although you now have a different diksa lineage, you have an eternal debt to the real ISKCON. None of us have any right in our position to say anything other than what Srila Sridhar Maharaja has said on this subject. We cannot allow ourselves to get lost in the relativities but must always remember the ideal.

Sri Guru and His Grace:

Srila Sridhara Maharaja:

 

<center> nama-srestham manum api saci-putram atra svarupam

rupam tasyagrajam uru-purim mathurim gostavatim

radha-kundam giri-varam aho radhika-madhavasam

prapto yasya prathita-krpaya sri gurum tam nato 'smi

</center> "I am fully indebted to sri gurudeva. Why? He has given me so many things. He has given me the highest conception of the holy name of Krsna, the highest form of sound which contains the highest form of thought, aspiration, ideal, everything. And next he has given me the mantra. " The name is there within the mantra. Without the name, the mantra is nothing. If the name of Krsna is withdrawn and replaced with another name, the mantra will give the opposite result. The name of Krsna is all in all. And within the mantra, the name is couched in a particular way as a sort of prayer...

 

 

What is ISKCON?

Devotee: There are so many visions about the International Society for Krsna Consciousness (lSKCON). But what should the real vision of ISKCON be?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: In this verse, Raghunatha Dasa Goswami gives the real acquaintance of what is lSKCON (nama-srestham manum api saci-putram atra svarupam ). ISKCON must not deviate from this line We have not come here to deceive ourselves, but to fulfill ourselves. ISKCON will fulfill everyone's inner demand, even extending to the vegetables and stones, taking them to the feet of Mahaprabhu and the gosvamis. From village to village, every one, in every place, should be hunted and approached, "Take the name of Krsna! Come under the flag of Mahaprabhu! This grand worldwide mission will thrive like anything; it will touch the heavens and cover the Earth, and other planets also. That was the aim of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and we understand and appreciate that.

[Guruvani 0]

 

ISKCON is irrelevant to me.

 

Most devotees I know, including many disciples of past ISKCON gurus such as Tamal and Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Maharaj l know feel the same way.

 

Actually ISKCON isn't totally irrelvant. It is more of an embarassment.

 

For me the big problem is that if I walk out my front door wearing the tilak of my Parampara and go travelling around, talking to people on the street or on trains, I always have do deal with the inevitable question "are you a Hare Krishna" or "are you with ISKCON". I always answer "No". Nearly every new (white bodied) person I have tried to talk to about Krishna and Mahaprabhu ask me about the HK's. Ordinary people think the HK's are a cult. I don't disagree with that conclusion. Indian people are more sympathetic to ISKCON but maybe they are naive. I feel embarassed when people mention the Hare Krishna's because ordinary people know a lot about the Hare Krishna's and what they know is not good. What they know is true, but not good.

 

and how many sannyasis that Srila Sridhar Maharaja initiated fell down?

(I know quite a few)

 

Why is only ISKCON irrelevant?

 

Maybe ISKCON is irrelevant to you, but that doesn't mean that ISKCON is irrelevant to Mahaprabhu.

 

If Mahaprabhu cares about ISKCON then why shouldn't you?

 

And don't tell me he doesn't!

[Beggar 0]

 

and how many sannyasis that Srila Sridhar Maharaja initiated fell down?

(I know quite a few)

 

Why is only ISKCON irrelevant?

 

Maybe ISKCON is irrelevant to you, but that doesn't mean that ISKCON is irrelevant to Mahaprabhu.

 

If Mahaprabhu cares about ISKCON then why shouldn't you?

 

And don't tell me he doesn't!

 

You know Muralidhar is emotional and can become a hothead and lose it. But you consistently push his and other's buttons. You goad him into an offense and then you call him on it. What kind of insane game is this. You know that you are mad, yes quite mad. Problem is that it is contagious...I feel the madness coming on, yes, yes...now I know that I am a great devotee, beyond all rules and regulations. I have unique vision, me and only me. Yes, everyone should listen to me for I am the most humble. Yes, it must be...

[Guruvani 0]

 

Guruvani is just trying to push everyone's buttons.

 

My nature is to always try to see things with a unique perspective.

I like to "think outside box'.

 

I try to see things that others don't see.

 

I think that there is always a unique way to see things differently than others.

 

Like some people think that Srila Saraswati Thakur favored Kunja Babu the most of all.

I think maybe externally he did, but internally he didn't.

 

I try to think about what was really inside his mind.

 

I am sure he appreciated the service of Kunja Babu, but I am also sure that he was aware of the embezzlement and the mixed-devotion of Kunja Babu.

 

Srila Prabhupada said Tirtha Maharaja has no clear conception of devotional service.

 

I think that was something only a Maha-Bhagavat could see.

Us small timers would think he was a really advanced pure devotee, when actually Srila Prabhupada revealed that he was a mixed devotee because he was always taking something for himself away from Gaudiya Matha - money.

 

Taking money from the mission of Mahaprabhu for family needs is mixed devotion-- karma-misra-bhakti.

 

Srila Prabhupada was not blaspheming BV Tirtha Maharaja.

He was just stating the facts that he was a karma-misra-bhakta.

 

Sometimes the truth has to be told.

 

Thats not a sin and it's not a crime.

 

Srila Prabhupada was suddha-sattva bhakta - totally transcendental.

 

BV Tirtha Maharaja wasn't on that platform.

[muralidhar_das 0]

 

Get real and control your emotions, Guruvani is just trying to push everyone's buttons. If it wasn't for Srila B.V. Swami Prabhupada and his ISKCON mission none of us would have never heard of Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar-deva Goswami Maharaja. Although you now have a different diksa lineage, you have an eternal debt to the real ISKCON. None of us have any right in our position to say anything other than what Srila Sridhar Maharaja has said on this subject. We cannot allow ourselves to get lost in the relativities but must always remember the ideal..

You are right to some extent. But it's true that nearly everywhere I go, my kids' school, or when I go out distributing books, etc. , I have to tell people I'm not a part of that cult. Really, I'm telling the truth here. People I meet think of ISKCON in that way.

 

But you are right about the debt. And that the ideal of ISKCON is beautiful. It's just that I'm not living in an ideal world I'm living in the town where Bhav's used to sit on a big throne and where you used to see scary posters with Bhav's photo on it and the big print words "THIS MAN SEEKS GOD HE CAN SHOW GOD TO YOU". People in my town know about Bhav's, the money making scams, the wigs on shaved heads, the dishonesty and the rest of what happened. It is no secret.

[Guruvani 0]

 

You know Muralidhar is emotional and can become a hothead and lose it. But you consistently push his and other's buttons. You goad him into an offense and then you call him on it. What kind of insane game is this. You know that you are mad, yes quite mad. Problem is that it is contagious...I feel the madness coming on, yes, yes...now I know that I am a great devotee, beyond all rules and regulations. I have unique vision, me and only me. Yes, everyone should listen to me for I am the most humble. Yes, it must be...

 

you don't have to chastise me, because I am already very hard on myself.

 

I am in no illusions about my self.

 

I have a very low estimation of myself.

 

What amazes me is that these so-called sadhakas can be so dull and gullible and apparently suffering from a severe lack of concern for the mission of Srila Prabhupada.

 

You don't know me.

 

do you think it's easy being the most hated person on the internet?

 

it's a rotten job but somebody has to do it.

 

since I am such a hardened and tortured soul I guess I have been chosen for the job.

 

I can take it.....

could you?

 

I do the dirty work that nobody else has got the balls to do.

[muralidhar_das 0]

 

 

BV Tirtha Maharaja wasn't on that platform.

 

You are such an arrogant person. Unbelievable!

 

 

 

According to Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, this Bhaktivilasa Tirtha is his eternal servant Bimala Manjari.

 

Saraswati Thakura wrote that in a letter. It is there in print, for the world to see.

[Guruvani 0]

 

You are such an arrogant person. Unbelievable!

 

 

 

Murali, Srila Prabhupada said that.

In fact, your astonishment and incredulousness is towards Srila Prabhupada.

 

In fact, you think you know better than Srila Prabhupada.

In fact, the Matha where you align yourself with considers Srila Prabhupada an offender.

 

BV Tirth Maharaja will be Bimala Manjari after he rectifies his offenses against Srila Prabhupada which he never did.

 

He is still waiting for another birth and a chance to get forgiveness from Srila Prabhupada for offending him and talking crap about him to his western disciples.

 

Srila Prabhupada never had a problem with the Gaudiya Matha people till they started talking crap and belittling Srila Prabhupada.

 

They started the war.

 

The war will NEVER be over!

 

Because they never asked Srila Prabhupada for pardon.

 

To this day they still talk crap about Srila Prabhupada.

[muralidhar_das 0]

 

and how many sannyasis that Srila Sridhar Maharaja initiated fell down?

(I know quite a few)

!

 

 

Sannyasis falling down, taking drugs or getting laid, that's not the big problem I'm seeing in front of me.

 

It's the big public scandals, like when it was on TV that when Bhavananda was at the airport he had to get an "internal examination" if you know what I mean, to see if Bhavananda had any rolls of money concealed in his private parts. They didn't find any that time. But the news report said that the police had good reason to believe that Bhavananda was leader of an organization that was involved in illegal activities and that he was taking money out of the country illegally etc.. He did drive a Jaguar car, after all -- not a good look.

 

And the bullying of ISKCON devotees against all other sects such as people who do yoga (the mayavadis) or who are mere vegetarians (even pidgeons are vegetarians), that kind of egotistical bullying has created a very negative opinion in many people's minds. What to speak of the "wigs" and books catastrophe that was played out in every shopping centre and other place that large numbers of people congregate. Ordinary folks think this type of organization is weird.