As a sudra, he can get the perfection.

suchandra · May 29, 2007

Below Prabhupada says,"that time for introducing varnashram was not right. Now you can do something", indicating that things depent upon desa- kala-patra - place, time and circumstance.

Satsvarupa: If in our society we say, “Srila Prabhupada wants some to be sudra...”

Prabhupada: No, no, no. I don't want. I want everyone to become Vaisnava. But because he's a sudra, it is not possible to bring him immediately to the platform of brahmana, or Vaisnava. Therefore falling down. Therefore the system must be present. But even if he remains a sudra, he's a Vaisnava.

Hari-Sauri: So we'd have to completely revise the whole system that we have now.

Prabhupada: No. Whatever we have, that is all right. But we see by experience that they're falling down. Why falling down? Because he was not fit for the position, therefore he has fallen. Better remain in his position and become perfect. Why artificially bring them? There is no need. Krsna says. Bring that Bhagavad-gita. Sve sve karmany abhirataù?

Hari-Sauri: sve sve karmany ab hirataù saàsiddhià labhate naraù sva-karma-nirataù siddhià yatha vindati tac chrnu By following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect. Now please hear from Me how this can be done.”

Prabhupada: Yes. He is sudra, clerk. As a sudra, he can get the perfection. Why he should artificially become a brahmana and sannyasi and fall down? This has to be checked.

Hari-Sauri: So in Mayapura here now we have that situation, that so many...

Prabhupada: Everywhere, wherever, Mayapura or anywhere. Question is that here it is clearly said, sve sve karmany abhirataù. Brahmana has his duty, ksatriya has his duty, vaisya has his duty, sudra has his duty. And if he performs his duty nicely, then he also becomes perfect. So why artificially he should be called a brahmana? Let them do, according to sastra, the work of sudra, or vaisya. He'll become perfect. Perfection is not checked. But why artificially he should be made a brahmana or he should be made a sannyasi and fall down and b ecome a ludicrous? That is the point. Better let him live in his position and become perfect. That's good. That looks very nice. And that is possible. That is possible. Lord Visnu can be worshiped if you perfectly follow the rules and regulation of four varnas and four asramas. Here it is also said, sve sve karmani. You work as a perfect brahmana or a perfect ksatriya, perfect sudra; you get perfection. The perfection is available in your natural life. Why should artificially you become unnatural and fall down and become ludicrous?

Hari-Sauri: At this time should we try to introduce it in our centers or not?

Prabhupada: Always we shall try. Human society will be always there. We have to serve them, para-upakara. We have to keep them in the right position.

Hari-Sauri: I just remember two or three years ago there was a thing... A pamphlet came out about introducing the varnasrama system in the society, but actually nothing came of it.

Prabhupada: Yes. That time was not right. Now you can do something. Every business is important. Brahmana business is important, ksatriya... Just like the body. Head is important; the arm is important; the belly is important. They must be kept in order. Just like I am in trouble because my belly is not working. Digesting power is not good. So in spite of brain, hand, and leg, I am diseased. If any part of the society remains diseased, the whole society will suffer. Therefore they must be maintained in correct order. You cannot say if there is some trouble in the leg, “Neglect the leg. Take care of the brain.” No. Brain will be taxed due to the pain in the leg. This is nature. Therefore everyone should be kept in order. Then things will go on. That is varnasrama.

Hari-Sauri: So at least if we successfully introduce the varnasrama system in our own society, then when all the demons finish themselves...

Prabhupada: At least... At least... At least they will see, “This is the ideal.” Ideal. We are giving the ideal. We are not going to be a sudra. But to show ... Just like you play in a drama. You are playing the part of a king. You are not a king.

Hari-Sauri: No.

Prabhupada: So similarly, just to give them idea, we have to play like that.

Hari-Sauri: Well, again, that's...

Prabhupada: Not necessarily that we are going to be sudra. So that is it. That is the thing. We are servant of Krsna. That's all. And as servant of Krsna, we have to execute the order of Krsna.

Satsvarupa: So we can ideally organize ourselves and then for the rest of the people all we can do is hope that they'll follow it.

Prabhupada: Yes. In order to serve the mass of people, to bring them to the ideal position, we should try to introduce this varnasrama, not that we are going to be candidates of varnasrama. It is not our business. But to teach them how the world will be in peaceful position we have to introduce.

http://www.salagram.net/varnashram-1.htm

Guruvani · May 29, 2007

Prabhupada: Yes. In order to serve the mass of people, to bring them to the ideal position, we should try to introduce this varnasrama, not that we are going to be candidates of varnasrama. It is not our business. But to teach them how the world will be in peaceful position we have to introduce.

this is an important understanding about Varnashram that sometimes is being missed with some devotees.

Srila Prabhupada says:

not that we are going to be candidates of varnasrama. It is not our business.

the whole matter of Varnashram is about:

to serve the mass of people, to bring them to the ideal position, we should try to introduce this varnasrama

Varnashram is for the masses, but they never flocked to take shelter of ISKCON.

ISKCON is for Vaishnavism.

It's not important to try and impose Varnashram on ISKCON.

krsna · May 29, 2007

Prabhupada: Yes. In order to serve the mass of people, to bring them to the ideal position, we should try to introduce this varnasrama, not that we are going to be candidates of varnasrama. It is not our business. But to teach them how the world will be in peaceful position we have to introduce.

******************

Who will show the way forward here about Varnasrama???

Any ideas in how to teach this thing to the mass of people?

How to popularize the Varnasrama model so that people especially see the benifit of a more peaceful and simple life conducive for spiritual life????

suchandra · May 30, 2007

this is an important understanding about Varnashram that sometimes is being missed with some devotees.

Srila Prabhupada says:

the whole matter of Varnashram is about:

Varnashram is for the masses, but they never flocked to take shelter of ISKCON.

ISKCON is for Vaishnavism.

It's not important to try and impose Varnashram on ISKCON.

For a Vaishnava there's nothing besides serving Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan Mission, otherwise can we call such a person who has no interest in spreading the Holy Name a Vaishnava? Or as Prabhupada puts it: A pure devotee's chief concern, therefore, is to raise the ignorant mass of people to the sense of Krishna consciousness. (SB 9/4/66)

This means a Vaishnava has no other separate focus than bringing people to the understanding of KC. If "the masses never flocked to take shelter of ISKCON", it should be clear that ISKCON might look like a Vaishnava movement but is being turned into something else.

"Any ideas in how to teach this thing to the mass of people?"

This is rather the question, "how can I serve Krishna?"

“To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.” (BG 10.10)

A person in full Krsna consciousness acts by the dictation of Krsna. In the beginning of Krsna consciousness, dictation is received through the transparent medium of the spiritual master. When one is sufficiently trained and acts in submissive faith and love for Krsna under the direction of the bona fide spiritual master, the dovetailing process becomes more firm and accurate. This stage of devotional service by the devotee in Krsna consciousness is the most perfect stage of the yoga system.

At this stage, Krsna, or the Supersoul, dictates from within, while from without the devotee is helped by the spiritual master, who is the bona fide representative of Krsna. From within He helps the devotee as caitya, for He is seated within the heart of everyone. Understanding that God is seated within everyone’s heart is not, however, sufficient. One has to be acquainted with God from both within and without, and one must take dictation from within and without to act in Krsna consciousness. This is the highest perfectional stage of the human form of life and the topmost perfection of all yoga. (SB 3.15.45)