bhavollasa-rati: codeword for sahajiyas?

[Shakti-Fan 0]

Codeword for Sahajiyas

 

Q & A with Swami B. V. Tripurari

 

"Both love in union and love in separation are most venerable. These

are not topics for neophytes to argue about, using them as weapons for

fighting amongst one another."

 

Q. I understand that in Gaudiya Vaisnavism devotees sometimes desire to

have a romantic relationship with Krsna. Please explain something about

this.

 

A. In discussing Krsna's relationship with the gopis, Sri Rupa Goswami

mentions two possible types, sambhogecchamayi and tad-bhavecchamayi.

The former is the role of a gopi who has a direct love affair with

Krsna and the latter is the role of assisting a gopi group leader who

has a direct love affair with Krsna. Although both are mentioned, in

Gaudiya Vaisnavism the latter is considered preferable. According to

both Sri Jiva Goswami and Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti, it is the

principal form of conjugal love in relation to Sri Krsna that devotees

in our lineage aspire for.

 

Gopis in this mood love both Radha-Krsna, but with stronger attachment

to Sri Radha. These handmaids of Sri Radha feel that assisting in her

relationship with Krsna is even more desirable than uniting personally

with him. Sri Rupa Goswami also terms this sentiment bhavollasa-rati.

Over time devotees have also referred to it as Radha-dasyam,

manjari-bhava, and so on. It is the unique emphasis of Sri Caitanya

Mahaprabhu.

 

For more information read the following Sanga: Bhavollasa Rati: Love

for Radha-Krsna Combined

http://www.swami.org/sanga/archives/pages/volume_four/m202.html

 

Q. I read a contentious article in which the term manjari-bhava was

referred to as the codeword for prakrta-sahajiyas (imitation devotees).

Can you comment?

 

A. My writing previously received a similar critique by the same

author. In answer to a Sanga question, I wrote a brief explanation of

the term bhavollasa-rati. After my reply was published, the author of

the article you refer to wrote a personal attack against me, at that

time labeling bhavollasa-rati the "codeword for sahajiyas." Now, in a

recent article he himself uses the term bhavollasa-rati, citing Rupa

Goswami's Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu.

 

In response I wrote that I first read this term in one of the books of

Srila Sridhara Maharaja, referring to his Bengali translation of

Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, published with Sri Jiva's commentary, wherein

the term bhavollasa-rati is used and discussed. At the time he was

adamant that the term could not be found anywhere in the publications

of Srila Sridhara Maharaja.

 

As for the term manjari-bhava, it is found in Sripad Bon Maharaja's

commentary on Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, a book approved by Srila Sridhara

Maharaja. While it is true that Srila Sridhara Maharaja did not

regularly use this term, he certainly discussed the subject as recorded

in his published lectures. Indeed, information on the relationship

between Radha-Govinda and the manjaris is found in practically all of

his books, as it is not possible to enter into a comprehensive

understanding of Gaudiya Vaisnavism without this knowledge.

 

For example, Srila Sridhara Maharaja informs us in Sri Guru and His

Grace, "Even the sakhis in madhurya-rasa cannot enter where

Radha-Govinda are united privately, but the manjaris are allowed there.

They are the younger section, and that is the highest rasa. So the

highest point of our attainment, of our aspiration is there,

rupanuga--Rupa Manjari. She is the leader of all the manjaris and there

the highest quality of union in rasa is found.

 

"So in that highest stage of the mixing of Radha-Govinda--free play of

Radha-Govinda--these manjaris, the younger girls, they can have

admission. But the grown-up sakhis they cannot have admission there.

New recruits come to manjari class, up to manjari class. And the

manjari has got that sort of special advantage under the leadership of

Rupa Manjari. So they get the best advantage there, the most sacred

type of pure service is open to the manjaris in Radharani's camp. So

Rupanuga position, the most profitable position, has been given out by

Mahaprabhu. That is the highest limit of your fortune. This has been

shown. Beyond hope, our highest prospect lies there in that subtle camp

of Sri Rupa, Rupa Manjari, Rupa Goswami. So the sampradaya of

Mahaprabhu is known as Rupanuga sampradaya. There is located our fate,

our fortune."

 

Q. In that article the idea was presented that spiritual union with

Krsna is a lesser experience than that of love for him in separation.

Would you be so kind as to comment on this?

 

A. Gaudiya acaryas have expressed nuanced differences of opinions on

this subject, and sometimes an acarya will glorify union and at another

time the same acarya will glorify separation. For example, my own siksa

guru, Pujyapada B.R. Sridhara Deva Goswami said, "When Radha-Govinda

are alone in union, the highest quality of rasa is to be found in their

lila." However, he also said, "Dedication in its highest state is union

in separation."

 

To speak conclusively on this subject, one must be well acquainted with

the Goswami literature that deals specifically with it. It is a vast

topic. The terms vipralambha and sambhoga refer to union and separation

in conjugal love and in prema-bhakti there are four types of each of

these. In the other rasas of Vraja, union and separation are termed

yoga and ayoga, and because Radha's manjaris are her servant friends,

yoga and ayoga are also pertinent to their bhava as dasis of Sri Radha.

Three types of yoga and two types of ayoga are discussed in the Goswami

granthas (scriptures).

 

For the most part, service in separation is emphasised because

separation is the low tide of the ocean of prema, during which one can

enter her waters. Sri Caitanya taught this by his example in the final

years of his lila. He meditated on lilas overflowing with Radha's

feelings of separation from Krsna, such as her song to the bumblebee

(Bhramara-gita). Sadhakas should follow his example. In the first

stages of prema, there is also a particular type of love in separation

known as purva-raga (for those engaged in kamanuga) or utkantha (for

those engaged in sambandhanuga), which prepares one for one's initial

union with Krsna in his manifest lila in Vrndavana. In the Bhagavata we

also find that the course that the kamanuga sadhana-siddhas passed

through involved intense separation, which paved the way for their

eventual union with Krsna. In the poetry of the Bhagavata, they died in

separation before coming to live in love with Krsna.

 

While the importance of separation has been illustrated in brief above,

it is clear that such separation begets union. The secular theory of

rasa, which Rupa Goswami employed to explain the nature of bhakti-rasa,

teaches that the purpose of love in separation is to foster love in

union. Thakura Bhaktivinoda has cited this idea in his commentary on

Siksastakam 7, which is about love in separation. Thus union should not

be dismissed. Indeed, we seek the union of Radha-Krsna, and Rupa

Goswami writes in his Ujjvala-nilamani that the highest expression of

love of God, called madanakhya-mahabhava, is experienced only in union.

However, this union contains within it feelings of love in separation.

Furthermore, when other acaryas, such as Sanatana Goswami, have

extolled the virtues of love in separation, it is the invisible union

that is experienced in such separation that makes the separation

glorious. Thus the two, love in union and love in separation, are

inextricably intertwined like two banks on the river of divine love.

Both love in union and love in separation are most venerable.

 

To intelligently discuss all this in context, one must be well studied.

Most importantly, one must be highly realized to understand this topic

in any real depth. Sometimes neophyte devotees not well acquainted with

the literature like to create arguments, citing their own teacher

without much understanding of the context in which he or she has spoken

in favor of union or separation. These are not topics for neophytes to

argue about, using them as weapons for fighting amongst one another. In

this regard Pujyapada B.R. Sridhara Maharaja says, "We should not

indulge in these topics carelessly. That will do some harm in our real

realization in the future."

 

Q. B. R. Sridhara Maharaja wrote, "Our Guru Maharaja (Bhaktisiddhanta

Saraswati Thakura) in Kartika Mas in Radha-Kunda and Vrndavana chanted

asta-kaliya-lila (eight-fold daily pastimes of Radha-Krsna) composed by

Bhaktivinoda Thakura, but I do not do that. I very strictly confine to

the lower level, than even Guru Maharaja gave, (what he allowed is) a

little higher. I am very strict about that (not allowing what he

allowed)." Here Srila Sridhara Maharaja is saying that he was more

conservative than his guru in regards to chanting and discussing

Krsna-lila. Shouldn't this be the standard?

 

A. Among disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta there are variations in

practices. Taking into consideration time and circumstances, the guru

of each mission decided what was appropriate for his disciples. Almost

all branches of Gaudiya Matha chant the asta-kaliya-lila verses of

Bhaktivinoda Thakura for the entire month of Kartika, but in his

mission Srila Sridhara Maharaja did not do so. Does this make the

others wrong or make them sahajiyas?

 

On some points Srila Prabhupada was more conservative than Sridhara

Maharaja and on other points he was less so. Srila Prabhupada rarely

used the term "manjari," but we do often find it in the vocabulary of

Pujyapada Sridhara Maharaja along with an explanation and emphasis not

often found in Srila Prabhupada's writing. In fact, at one point Iskcon

leaders wrongly labeled Sridhara Maharaja a sahajiya, proclaiming his

discussion of Radha-Krsna lila too intimate for Srila Prabhupada's

disciples. In reference to variations, differences, and disagreements

among Godbrothers and Godsisters, Srila Sridhara Maharaja called for

soft dealings rather than harsh confrontation, saying that whenever

possible we should try to be generous with one another regardless of

differences.

 

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Questions or comments may be submitted at the Q&A Forum

http://www.swami.org/sanga/ or email sangaeditor@swami.org. Moderator: sangaeditor@swami.org Sunday, January 28, 2007, Vol. IX, No. 2 Readership: 11,797 Back issue archive:

http://www.swami.org/sanga/archives/pages/SangaArchive.html Sanga website: http://www.swami.org/sanga Audarya Bookstore: http://www.swami.org/store/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guruvani 0]

I would say it depends on the audience, the situation and the preacher.

It is absurd to even make public issues out of these kinds of topics.

Now, the most sacred of confidential knowledge has become a public brawl.

 

these topics are for bhajan and confidential discussion amongst intimate associates who have great respect and faith in each other.

These topics are not issues to publish in mass media as bones of contention amongst carreer preachers who make their way by accumulating disciples or followers.

the fact that none of them have realized the highest rasa is evident by their public debates over confidential topics that are meant for bhajan.

[Shakti-Fan 0]

 

I would say it depends on the audience, the situation and the preacher.

It is absurd to even make public issues out of these kinds of topics.

Now, the most sacred of confidential knowledge has become a public brawl.

 

these topics are for bhajan and confidential discussion amongst intimate associates who have great respect and faith in each other.

These topics are not issues to publish in mass media as bones of contention amongst carreer preachers who make their way by accumulating disciples or followers.

the fact that none of them have realized the highest rasa is evident by their public debates over confidential topics that are meant for bhajan.

 

I have to admit that's a very good understanding. Are you saying that there is a difference between "career preachers" and pure preachers?

[Guest guest]

What ever trust I had in Tripurari Maharaja I lost when I read Sudhir Maharaja's article against him. I didn't even say hello to him at one Ratha Yatra. Now I find that Sudhir's criticisms were false and unwarranted. Next time I see Tripurari Maharaja I will offer my humble obeisances to him and ask him to forgive me of my offenses. I believe that although these topics are high and intimate that it is good that Shakti-fan has placed this on the forum. Otherwise I would not have been aware of this since I am not on Tripurari Maharaja's e-mail list.

[Guest guest]

I offer my humble obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual guru, nitya-lila pravista om visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja; and the same unto the lotus feet of my siksa-guru, nitya lila pravista om visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja.

 

Parama-pujyapada Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja has bestowed so much mercy upon me. In his last days he called me to his side, took my hands and placed it in his hands, and weeping, he told me, “I have collected so many devotees from Western countries, Eastern countries and here and there. I am worried because I could not train them fully. They were not ready to be trained fully. You are so qualified; you must help them. This is my first request. Also, you should give me samadhi with your own hands, and perform my viraha mahotsava (separation) festival.” The purpose of my visit to all countries is to help his devotees, and to also help new devotees.

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja was the biggest arm of Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Thakura. He was his long arm. He went to Eastern and Western countries, and it was a miracle that in a couple of years he preached everywhere and established so many preaching centers. I think that all who are now becoming devotees and coming to me, are coming because of him – through reading his books, and through his preaching and other activities. I have no credit in this, but I served him since 1946 and that is why he has inspired me. By his power I am going here and there preaching, and so many are attracted and listening.

 

The goal of his preaching and my preaching is the same. I am not telling you anything different from him. Someone may propagate that our preaching is different, but I think we are the same. He came to Western countries and tried to clear away the jungles of so many unwanted philosophies and activities. He kept a field for me and said, “On this field you can plant bhakti to Krsna like that of the gopis. Though he generally did not preach openly that this is our aim and object, he wrote about it in his books and it is his inner mood. Otherwise why would all his songs and prayers be in that mood, like “Radhe, Jaya Jaya Madhava Dayite” and “Jaya Radha Madhava, Jaya Kunja-vihari”?

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja prayed and taught his disciples:

 

cintamani-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vrksa-

laksavrtesu surabhir abhipalayantam

laksmi-sahasra-sata-sambhrama-sevyamanam

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

(Sri Brahma Samhita 5.29)

 

“I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, the first progenitor, who is tending the cows, yielding all desires, in abodes built with spiritual gems and surrounded by millions of purpose trees. He is always served with great reverence and affection by hundreds and thousands of goddesses of fortune.”

 

The innumerable Laxmis (goddesses of fortune) are none other then the gopis, and the main gopi is Srimati Radhika. Why was Srila Swami Maharaja preaching about this? The goal of our preaching is the same – what was taught by Srila Rupa Gosvami:

 

anarpita-carim cirat karunayavatirnah kalau

samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam

harih purata-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandipitah

sada hrdaya-kandare sphuratu vah saci-nandanah

 

[“May the Supreme Lord who is known as the son of Srimati Saci-devi be transcendentally situated in the innermost chambers of your heart. Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold, He has appeared in the Age of Kali by His causeless mercy to bestow what no incarnation has ever offered before: the most sublime and radiant mellow of devotional service, the mellow of conjugal love.” (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi-lila 1.4)]

 

What was Srila Rupa Gosvami teaching? What is the aim and object of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s coming to this world? Karunaya – by His mercy, Lord Krsna has taken the intrinsic mood and beauty of Srimati Radhika, and come to this world.

 

Only Srimati Radhika has madanakya-bhava. Krsna does not have it. He wanted to enjoy this mood, and that is why He came in the form of Sacinandana, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He gave unnatojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam, the highest mood, the mood of the gopis in madhurya-rasa. Among the gopis, the mood of Srimati Radhika is the topmost, but Her mood cannot be given, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not come to give that mood. He came to give sriyam – unnatojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam. Sva means Srimati Radhika’s bhakti to Lord Krsna, from prema, to sneha, maan, pranaya raga, anuraga, bhava, mahabhava, rudha, adhiruddha, mohan, modan and then madana. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu wanted to give the beauty of unnatojjvala-rasa.

 

What is the beauty of unnatojjvala-rasa? We can compare it with a plant, like the tulasi plant. If there are no leaves or manjaris, what is the beauty of that plant? There is no beauty – it is dry. The beauty of a plant is in its being full with leaves, fruits and flowers. It is especially beautiful if there are manjaris on the top of the plant and with heartfelt happiness those manjaris blow and sway this way and that. That manjari is the beauty of the plant.

 

Similarly when Krsna approaches a manjari (maidservant of Srimati Radhika) to personally enjoy pastimes with her, she waves her hand, indicating, “No, no. Absolutely not.” This is the mood of the manjaris headed by Rupa Manjari, Lavanga Manjari, Rati Manjari and others.

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to give this mood – through nama-sankirtana. You should not think that what we are doing is nama-sankirtana. Rather it is the beginning stage of nama-sankirtana. When our chanting will mix with the mood of the manjaris, then it will be real sankirtana. I have come to clarify this point. Srila Swami Maharaja explained this in his books, but he did not elaborate on it in his general preaching. The world, and also the world of devotees, was full of jungles of philosophical misconceptions and anarthas; so how could explanations of manjari bhava be heard?

 

His Gurudeva, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Takura has said, “I have come to give this mood:

 

sri caitanya-mano ’bhistam sthapitam yena bhutale

svayam rupah kada mahyam dadati sva-padantikam

 

[“When will Sri Rupa Gosvami give me the shelter of his lotus feet? Because he understood the innermost desire of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he was able to establish His mission in this world and is very dear to the Lord. (Sri Prema-bhakti-candrika, Narottama dasa Thakura)”]

 

adadanas trnam dantair idam yace punah punah

srimad rupa-padambhoja-dhulih syam janma-janmani

 

[“Clasping a straw between my teeth, I repeatedly beg to attain the dust of the lotus feet of Srimad Rupa Gosvami birth after birth.” (Sri Mukta-carita, Raghunatha dasa Gosvami)]

 

Srila Rupa Gosvami was the first to declare that Sri Sacinandana is Krsna. When Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu heard this from Rupa Gosvami’s lips, He became shy and said, “Don’t tell this.” The mission of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was only to give this manjari mood, but we cannot give it to ordinary devotees because they cannot understand its value. In fact, some hate it.

 

At first, Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura also cut the jungles of mayavada, sahajiya, sakhi-beki and other philosophical misconceptions. Later, however, when he was at Radha-kunda with thousands of devotees during Vraja-mandala parikrama, he said, “Don’t think that our final aim and object in bhakti is what I am telling you now. It is not this. Our goal is Radha-kunda and the service of the gopis to the divine couple Sri Sri Radha-Krsna. You should always remember this, otherwise you will only be a karmi.”

 

So our mission is the same. I have come to help you; to remind you of the mission of Srila Swami Maharaja, Srila Rupa Gosvami and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

After Srila Swami Maharaja departed from this world, some of his sannyasis and other devotees became weak. So many sannyasis married. I think at that time all of you here who are his disciples were brahmacaris, and now you are all are married – only due to weakness. If he were physically present now, this would not be. So I thought it best to come and help you – to fulfill the order of my siksa-guru. That is why I have come.

[Beggar 0]

 

 

Srila Rupa Gosvami was the first to declare that Sri Sacinandana is Krsna. When Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu heard this from Rupa Gosvami’s lips, He became shy and said, “Don’t tell this.” The mission of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was only to give this manjari mood, but we cannot give it to ordinary devotees because they cannot understand its value. In fact, some hate it.

 

 

 

So why, Mister lead singer of The Guest Whos, cast your pearls before swine?

Why put up a NM article that says that its not for "ordinary devotees" on this forum so "ordinary devotees" can start using it for target practice?

[Guruvani 0]

 

I have to admit that's a very good understanding. Are you saying that there is a difference between "career preachers" and pure preachers?

 

It's a fact that many "sannyasis" becomes gurus as a means of livelyhood.

They publish books for making profit and present themselves as gurus.

They depend on making disciples for their subsistence.

Yes, career preachers and career sannyasis amass personal assets and own their own non-profit religious organizations.

 

A real sannyasi doesn't publish books for selling in bookstores or have bank accounts or owns property.

[Guest guest]

In his book Aesthetic Vedanta (page 84) we read Tripurari Swami saying -

 

"Krsna stretched out his arms and embraced the gopis. He further aroused their passion and enjoyed with them by touching their hands, hair, thighs, belts, and breasts, as well as by playfully scratching them with his fingernails, joking with them, laughing with them, and glancing at them. In this way, he engaged in erotic sport with them as prescribed in the Kama-Sutra."

 

However in the Srimad Bhagavatam (4-24-46) purport, Srila Prabhupada says -

 

"Without serving Krsna according to the vidhi-marga regulative principles of the pancaratrika-vidhi, unscrupulous persons want to jump immediately to the raga-marga principles. Such persons are called sahajiya. There are also demons who enjoy depicting Krsna and His pastimes with the gopis, taking advantage of Krsna by their licentious character. These demons who print books and write lyrics on the raga-marga principles are surely on the way to hell. Unfortunately, they lead others down with them. Devotees in Krsna Consciousness should be very careful to avoid such demons."

 

Tripurari should have limited himself to repeating the words of Srila Prabhupada written in Srila Prabhupada's books. Instead, Tripurari has made a business out of re-packaging the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness and re-selling it in a distorted form.

 

As far as Sridhara Maharaja is concerned everyone should remeber that Tripurari Swami never went to Sridhara Maharaja and said, "I want to surrender to you, I will give up all my own plans and do whatever you say". Instead, Tripurari visted Sridhara Maharaja a few times and listened to him speaking for a couple of hours, and collected some tapes and books of Sridhara Maharaja. Tripurari says he considers Sridhara Maharaja to be his siksa guru but he doesn't follow Sridhara Maharaja's instruction that it is wrong to discuss rasa-katha with neophytes. Tripurari has made a business out of publishing books aimed at non devotees and "academia" in which he talks about rasa with reference to the Kama-Sutra. His destiny is in his own hands. He has moved into an area that Sridhara Maharaja never permitted any of his disciples to enter.

[Beggar 0]

The bad blood between Sudhira Goswami Maharaja and Tripurari Maharaja really goes back to 1986 when TM opened his temple in San Francisco. TM's temple was supported by t-shirt and sweat shirt sales (donations). Sudhira's San Jose temple did a lot of standard collecting at DMVs and the Airport but they also did some spots in S.F. with the t-shirt/sweat shirt business. TM's men basically muscled in on all the spots and there was hardly anything left for San Jose. Sudhira Goswami M. was fuming mad and there were all kinds of fireworks between them. I've seen TM's books and lets just say I can't read them. But Sudhira Goswami M. really should leave it alone. What can you say after almost a decade on the streets in the gutter of illicit activites? At least get your facts straight before you go on your "Holy" Crusade.

[Guest guest]

Be merciful Beggar, today and tomorrow depending on what math or calendar you follow is Nityananda Trayodasi. We can remember and glorify Dayal Nitai our most merciful Lord by being merciful towards others, unconditionally on such days. We want mercy for ourselves but how quick we are to judge others, that they would be denied that mercy.

[Beggar 0]

Sorry for my attitude Guest3. TM's books are kind of out there and maybe S.Goswami M was just trying to warn others. Also S. Goswami M is under the guidance of a more senior person and he (S. Goswami M) is doing good in sannyasa, and preaching in Russia and other places. And what am I doing: blabbering on the internet. Dayal Nitai

[Guest guest]

Wouldn't hurt to be generous with Tripurari Maharaja, either, Guest(s?). If you read his books carefully, even Aesthetic Vedanta, you'll see that they're not only exactly in line with our acaryas, but supported by their writing. Many, many stalwart disciples of Srila Prabhupada appreciate his books, as well as his Sanga newsletters.

 

Parama karuna, pahun dui-jana, Nitai-Gauracandra!

[Shakti-Fan 0]

 

Wouldn't hurt to be generous with Tripurari Maharaja, either, Guest(s?). If you read his books carefully, even Aesthetic Vedanta, you'll see that they're not only exactly in line with our acaryas, but supported by their writing. Many, many stalwart disciples of Srila Prabhupada appreciate his books, as well as his Sanga newsletters.

 

Parama karuna, pahun dui-jana, Nitai-Gauracandra!

I apologize for everyone if I can. Its hard to navigate through all the camps. On this Nityananda Tryodasi, I vow to look at Tripurari Maharaja's writings with an open heart and mind. Who can repeat this? How about Beggar, can you soften up today on this point?

[Beggar 0]

 

I apologize for everyone if I can. Its hard to navigate through all the camps. On this Nityananda Tryodasi, I vow to look at Tripurari Maharaja's writings with an open heart and mind. Who can repeat this? How about Beggar, can you soften up today on this point?

 

I've never been attracted to reading his books. What can I say. OK I'll try to be less prejudiced.

[Guest guest]

I'm not saying everyone has to be attracted to TM's books. But because they don't appeal to you doesn't necessarily mean they're out there--or anywhere. Not everyone finds a taste for Sridhar Maharaja's books. I like many of the books Narayana Maharaja and his crew have produced, but they don't all get me going. Anyway, since one of you wanted us to cut Sudhir Goswami Maharaja some slack, I thought it was appropriate to spread your mercy wider.

[Guruvani 0]

to meet and to associate with Tripurari Maharaja is very nice and congenial.

I have always appreciated him very much personally.

He has a very spiritual and sweet disposition.

 

His book publishing and some things might be a little disagreeable to me, but I know that in person he is very nice.

 

In principle, I have some differences with him because I have always looked up to him as senior disciple of Srila Prabhupada, so even very subtle discrepancies are greatly magnified when someone has the popularity in the forefront that Maharaja has.

 

He has tried to establish himself as a preacher and a guru, because that is the lifestyle he seeks.

In trying to make his own name and establish himself, I think maybe he has gone a little too far with some of his writings.

 

He seems to border on risque as far as sannyasa and the amorous aspects of transcendentalism are concerned.

 

I prefer sannyasa be very conservative and reserved.

I don't like the risque approach to preaching and attracting followers.

 

Otherwise, Tripurari Maharaja is a very charming devotee.

I have had some personal dealings with him back in days of yore.

[Guest guest]

 

Gauranga is combination of Radha and Krishna, so that is more.

 

by Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Maharaj

 

Disciple: Srila Guru Maharaj, I have heard that Krishna is doing Gaura-seva. Is that right?

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Krishna is serving Gauranga? Krishna is serving Gauranga? Yes we can think that Krishna is charmed by his own parallel existence of Gauranga. He is charmed because Gauranga means Krishna and Radha. Gauranga is combination of Radha and Krishna, so that is more. And Gauranga is prepared to distribute the Krishna-prema to one and all. Extending the market of the sale, extending the market for the distribution of divine love. Magnanimous Krishna. When Krishna comes in the mood of Radha, both combined, comes to distribute their inner wealth to one and all to the public for their benefit, that Krishna is Gauranga; not only Krishna, Krishna in the mood of Radha engaged in the distribution of his own wealth to the outside people. So for us Krishna is more valuable when He is Gauranga because there we get our heart's satisfaction. And in that Gauranga is higher than Krishna. Gaura-lila. Krishna engaged in distributing Himself causelessly to the others. That is higher for us. And independent of our thinking because both combined Radha-Krishna.

 

So they are one. In Vrindavan-lila they became two, divided. And again in Gaura-lila they are both combined. Eternal, always existing, in two moods, one combined and one different. Half and half. For their lila, pastimes. One thing divided, then the whole comes into one and becomes Gauranga, not brahma (nirvisesh brahma). According to the jnanis the whole (sakti-saktiman), the potency and the owner of the potency combined, the jnanis say, when combined then it is non-differentiated brahma. But to us that is not non-differentiated brahma, that (whole) becomes Gauranga searching Himself - sahajana prayojana vivarjana. When one Radha-Krishna the potency and the owner of the potency combine together in one whole absolute then He is searching Himself. He is feeling Himself, searching Himself, and in that way He is distributing Himself to others. In prema dham deva stotram I have got:

 

atma-siddha-savalila-purna-sakhya-laksanam

svanubhava-matta-nrtya-kirttanatma-vantanam

 

The sign of the absolute perfect being, the full Absolute, will be this, that He is dancing because He is overjoyed in his inner satisfaction. He is satisfied with Himself, and He has nothing to search for, to find His satisfaction outside, and He will dance. The dancing attitude is showing that He is full in Himself. And the kirttan, the chanting, that is His distributing that joy to others. That we find in Gauranga. His dancing, that is because He is full in Himself, and the kirttan, the chanting - He is distributing that joy. This is self-evident and this is the sign of the fullest source of the highest absolute, kirttanadvayaika, and that is mentioned in one stanza in prema dhama deva stotram, purna sakha laksanam. The satisfaction, the anandam, ecstasy, in its fullest conception, will have such sign, such symptom - what? That He is dancing in joy with happiness arising within Himself. He is full in Himself and He is chanting, He is giving Himself out to the environment. That should be the highest ideal of the absolute happiness. And that we find in Gauranga. Radha Krishna. Do you follow?

 

I tried to express this idea in that stanza in Prema Dhama Deva Stotram, and Svarupa Damodara says: radha krishna pranaya vikriti hladini sakti CC1.1.5

 

Who is Radharani? She is the love of Krishna in a particular form. The object of love of Krishna. So there one is Krishna, and the love the affection for Krishna is appearing in a particular form (Sri Radha). So it belongs together. Krishna is one, one. But still for the pastimes in Dvarapa-yuga They became divided in Vrindavan-lila and became two parties (Radha and Krishna), one predominating (Krishna) and that predominated moiety (Sri Radha). They parted and display in distinct forms with their own paraphernalia and began their pastimes in different way, their play. And again they come together, combine together, and become Gauranga. And He began to distribute Himself to the public. He is saying, "Automatically by nature, come take me, I am yours". He comes in the mood of Radharani. Their own common treasure they began to loot. They allowed themselves to be looted. Both the parties, they began to be looted by the public. Take this. Their treasure, they allowed their treasure to be looted. Both combined ... combined give affection... coming as Gauranga. So Gauranga is our greater shelter.

 

yatha yatha gaura padaravinde vindeta bhaktim krta punya-rasih

tatha tathotsarpati hrdy akasmat radha padambhoja sudhambhurasih

 

"As much as you surrender to the lotus feet of Sri Gauranga, you'll find yourself safely situated in the service of Radha-Govinda. Don't try to approach Radha-Govinda directly; if you do, there may be some difficulty. But the lotus feet of Sri Gauranga will take you there safely."

 

If you can secure a card admission card from Gauranga, you will find you are automatically that you are present in the harem of Krishna. You are in the group of Radharani. So He is increasing the circle Himself. Admission card is issued from here. And you are instructed in the confidential circle of service there. So Nityananda Prabhu tried His best: "Anyhow you can, connect yourself with Gauranga. Oh fallen souls, my friends, connect yourself with Gauranga. It is very easy for you. For fallen souls it is very easy to make connection with Gauranga, and then automatically everything will come unexpectedly to you, for your inner heart's satisfaction. Any way you can, connect yourself!" From door to door he came past. "Have a connection with Gauranga, have a connection with Gauranga and you will be richest of the rich." Door to door Nityananda Prabhu wandered.

 

bhaja gauranga kaha gauranga laha gauranga nama

yei jana gauranga bhaje, sei amara pranan

 

He began to roll on the doorstep of the customers, 'Take Gauranga take Gauranga' with tears in his eyes, that golden body began to roll on the door of so many customers. Accept Gauranga. Take Gauranga. You don't know what is passing away from your door, accept Gauranga. This is Nityananda. nitaiyer karuna habe braje radha krishna pabe Everything will be in your fist. Try to have the grace of Nityananda. He can give Gauranga. And if you get Gauranga you have got everything. The consent of both the parties, Radha-Krishna. Not only the sound of this message we must receive but also the meaning. The meaning, thereby we are to follow, try to follow. What is meant by these sounds.

 

From the external side not to consider this statement of Nityananda Prabhu, but the substance within the statement, we are to search for that. We are to search for the meaning. The real meaning, the mark, what does it mean? The substance, brahma jijnasa and krishnanusandhana: search for reality the beautiful. Dive deep. Dive. Die to Live, not only here in the surface of your sensual experience, you are to dive, dive deep in to the reality. adau sraddha tathau sadhu sanga bhajana kriya anartha nivritti nistha ruci asakti bhava, then prema. So many stages we are to pass through to dive deep into the reality. So many superficial covers, so many stages of our mental covers we are to pass through and then we are to come in touch of the reality. Die to live. So our state and our progress, our progressive state, that was the search; that we are to pass through, all these covers. And then enter into the substantial world.

 

Adau sraddha, first faith; then sadhu sanga, then keeping company with those aryans, sadhu sanga. bhajana kriya then as they advise us to go and discharge those duties. Cultivation culture to hear to speak to receive to distribute and so many others, recollection and serving attitude, then anartha nivritti the ulterior demands of our superficial nature they will disappear, they will disappear. Then nistha, a continuos aspiration for Krishna for the inner substance. Continuous without any interuption by any superficial demand, nistha, ruci then taste will be created for that. Before that the taste cannot be relied on. But when after continuous attempt for the truth the taste will come that is reliable genuine taste. Then that will increase into asakti, when we can't tolerate any separation from that taste of particular, that truth,asakti. Then bhava, superior? connection with reality. Then prema, when we enter into the reality, and then the positive development: snehaman pramoya radha kunda bhava mahabhaya

 

Positive participation into reality, we create so many things in our minds. The process of positive progess is there. It is not imagination but the process of elimination. The progressive path involves elimination and acceptance. It is there. Then what is real to us at present, the sense experience world, that world will evaporate and we shall find ourselves in the midst of the inner world, like a yogi, like a deep scientific scholar engaged in research for getting knowledge about the world. But that is very meagre example more deep and interest we will find there. Rather it is like the forgetfulness of the scholar who becomes totally absorbed in his study.

 

We are living in the covering over the surface (the superficial layer that covers reality). The world we are living in, we are experiencing misleading things, because we are living only in the (superficial) cover. But what is the inner substance of reality we do not care to know, when we are absorbed in illusion. And that reality, we are to go towards reality. Here, it is the cover floating on our consciousness. But leaving the cover we shall try to enter into deep consciousness. A consciousness! You leave the experience of this world of sense experience, thinking "I don't like this, I want to go deeper'. We are to enter into our own consciousness. Reality, it is a part of our own consciousness. It is a part of the whole consciousness. So we are to tackle the extensive consciousness and we are a part of that. Subjective exploitation, not in the objective side - exploiting nature.

 

Subjective consciousness: we shall have to enter into the causal truth. Gradually we shall find these things. The source of knowledge we are to tackle. We are to enter into the fountain from where the water is oozing. Water is coming outside through the fountain. We are to enter into the fountain to understand what type of water it is, and how it is flowing. In what way. Enter into the source of knowledge to find out wherefrom it comes. Against the current that is flowing towards material life, we are to move against that current. And what is the product of the current just floating on our senses? That feeling we feel on the surface with our senses is reactionary (for every action there is a reaction). So we are to enter into the source to have proper exploitation with the help of the agents there.

 

Atma, paramatma then bhagavan conception - bhajaniya. Ultimately we shall find that we are to serve the wonderful substance of ecstasy, and if we can engage ourselves in slavery to that Higher Reality, we shall find our fortune is fulfilled. Such high high kind of pleasure is there, satisfaction is there. Anyhow, neglectfully disconnecting with the material life and connecting with the Higher world, if we get with that then we shall think all our fulfillment, our final fulfillment, we have got. A slight connection of that treasure, the source of all knowledge and all ecstasy, will be for our benefit. Subjective enquiry, concsious enquiry, going against the mundane current, is our path. We shall have to go forward.

[anadi 0]

The glory of hearing about the loving sports of Sri Krishna is narrated in the scriptures.

 

vikrIDitaM vraja-vadhUbhir idaM ca viSNoH |

zraddhAnvito yaH zRNuyAd atha varNayed vA ||

bhaktiM parAM bhagavati parilabhya kAmaM |

hRd-rogam Azv apahinoty acireNa dhIraH || (bhag. 10.33.39)

 

“One who faithfully hears or describes the loving sports of Sri Krishna and the young maidens of Vraja

will quickly drive away the heart-disease of lust, become sober, and attain supramundane devotion of the Lord.”

 

However, is everyone eligible for hearing such confidential topics, which may invoke thoughts of mundane sexuality in the eyes of an ignorant spectator?

 

kintu rahasya-lIlA tu pauruSa-vikAravad indriyaiH pitR-putra-dAsa-bhAvaiz ca nopAsyA svIya-bhAva-virodhAt |

rahasyatvaM ca tasyAH kvacid alpAMzena kvacit tu sarvAMzeneti jJeyam || (Bhakti-sandarbha 338)

 

“However, these secret sports are not to be worshiped by those who experience male transformations in their senses, or by those...

[Guest guest]

 

 

A real sannyasi doesn't publish books for selling in bookstores or have bank accounts or owns property.

 

Okay, so Bhaktivedanta Swami was not a real sannyasi. He published books for selling in bookstores, he had a bank balance even in the early years in NYC and he did own property.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Okay, so Bhaktivedanta Swami was not a real sannyasi. He published books for selling in bookstores, he had a bank balance even in the early years in NYC and he did own property.

 

neophytes can't imitate the self-realized acharya.

self-realized acharyas can do many things that would be obstacles for the sadhakas struggling against their senses.

 

don't imitate the acharya.

follow his instructions.

 

Tripurari Maharaja had to use Jagat (Jagadananda) to publish his books because Tripurari Maharaja doesn't know Sanskrit or Bengali.

Jagat is now an avowed sahajiya who has taken sahajiya diksha.

 

What kind of stigma is now attached to the writings of Tripurari Maharaja?

 

If a person is not a Sanskrit scholar or doesn't know Bengali, then what business does he have publishing books with the help of academics who have turned sahajiya?

 

It's just weird.

[Guest guest]

Guruvani, I am very disappointed in you. You sit there at your computer finding fault with your god brother and writing so many nonsense things. How do you know the heart and mind of Tripurari Swami? You say he desires the lifestyle of a preacher and Guru - how did you come to that conclusion? Now you want to find fault with him for preaching and writing books and your only complaint is that he engaged Jagadananda in helping him with his seva? How ridiculous and petty can you get?

 

Not everyone remains a neophyte. Sri Guru gives the means for advancement and those who follow his instructions with resolute determination find that they are moving through the various stages of sadhana bhakti. You are a very harsh critic of others but your words speak volumes about who and what you are. Why don't you become serious yourself about serving your Guru Maharaja rather than criticizing your god brother who is acutally doing so.

[Guest guest]

 

 

Tripurari Maharaja had to use Jagat (Jagadananda) to publish his books because Tripurari Maharaja doesn't know Sanskrit or Bengali.

Jagat is now an avowed sahajiya who has taken sahajiya diksha.

 

What kind of stigma is now attached to the writings of Tripurari Maharaja?

 

If a person is not a Sanskrit scholar or doesn't know Bengali, then what business does he have publishing books with the help of academics who have turned sahajiya?

 

It's just weird.

 

If Prabhupada relied on Gita Press, or on Nitai and Pandu and other Sanskrit "scholars" is he tainted by their faults? Guruvani, you need to be careful about how you throw around your accusations against your hated enemies, as some of them might stick to your beloved Prabhupada.

[brajeshwara das 0]

Just my perspective: I think I should try and pay my respects to those I can't support for whatever reasons from a distance. A very far distance perhaps. But still I should pay my respects because I don't know who's who or what's what. But knowing imitationism to be the greatest enemy of devotion, and that I am a beginning beginner, I should protect my creeper by having chastity in and seeking fulfillment exclusively from my Guru parampara. This is the safe position, because I don't have to risk vaisnava aparadha.

[Beggar 0]

"mathala hari jana kirtana range/pujala raga patha gaurava bhange

This is the very gist of Bhaktisiddhanta vani"

Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhar-deva Goswami Maharaha