Supersoul Super-thread, All things Supersoul

[theist 1]

BG 18.13: O mighty-armed Arjuna, according to the Vedanta there are five causes for the accomplishment of all action. Now learn of these from Me.

BG 18.14: The place of action [the body], the performer, the various senses, the many different kinds of endeavor, and ultimately the Supersoul -- these are the five factors of action.

BG 18.15: Whatever right or wrong action a man performs by body, mind or speech is caused by these five factors.

BG 18.16: Therefore one who thinks himself the only doer, not considering the five factors, is certainly not very intelligent and cannot see things as they are.

Here is one way we can become conscious of the Supersoul always in our day to day lives. In every action of the senses He is involved and without His sanction and direction nothing can take place.

Seeing though our eyes is such an action. In reading this page right now we should be aware of Supersouls participation.

We cannot lift a finger to type without Supersoul or even get up for a glass of water.

If we can become conscious of our total dependence on Krsna in this way it will be very helpfull in our quest for Krsna preme.

 

[theist 1]

TRANSLATION Bg 18.14

 

The place of action [the body], the performer, the various senses, the many different kinds of endeavor, and ultimately the Supersoul -- these are the five factors of action.

 

PURPORT

The word adhishthanam refers to the body. The soul within the body is acting to bring about the results of activity and is therefore known as karta, "the doer." That the soul is the knower and the doer is stated in the sruti. Esha hi drashta srashta (Prasna Upanishad 4.9). It is also confirmed in the Vedanta-sutra by the verses jno 'ta eva (2.3.18) and karta2.3.33). The instruments of action are the senses, and by the senses the soul acts in various ways. For each and every action there is a different endeavor. But all one's activities depend on the will of the Supersoul, who is seated within the heart as a friend. The Supreme Lord is the supercause. Under these circumstances, he who is acting in Krishna consciousness under the direction of the Supersoul situated within the heart is naturally not bound by any activity. Those in complete Krishna consciousness are not ultimately responsible for their actions. Everything is dependent on the supreme will, the Supersoul, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

[Beggar 0]

 

Those in complete Krishna consciousness are not ultimately responsible for their actions. Everything is dependent on the supreme will, the Supersoul, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

This is all very tricky. "The Bhagavad Gita As It Is" is really more than Bhagavad Gita. It contains the conception of Sri Caityanya Mahaprabhu. Prabhupada is very much in that conception and the conception that Mahaprabhu came to give, "anarpita carim carat karunyayava tirna kalau..."

So within his subjective highly evolved consciousness he is setting the example of seeing Krsna, The Supreme Personality of Godhead everywhere. But from an objective standpoint Ksirodaksayai Visnu is the part of the part of the part of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna who is the son of Nanda Maharaja. Also, it is not Ksirodaksayi Visnu who resides in the heart of a suddha bhakti, pure devotee in Mahaprabhu's like Srila Prabhupada but rather the Supreme Personality of Godhead, svayam bhagavan, Sri Krsna who always has Srimati Radharani by his side.

[theist 1]

 

This is all very tricky. "The Bhagavad Gita As It Is" is really more than Bhagavad Gita. It contains the conception of Sri Caityanya Mahaprabhu. Prabhupada is very much in that conception and the conception that Mahaprabhu came to give, "anarpita carim carat karunyayava tirna kalau..."

So within his subjective highly evolved consciousness he is setting the example of seeing Krsna, The Supreme Personality of Godhead everywhere. But from an objective standpoint Ksirodaksayai Visnu is the part of the part of the part of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna who is the son of Nanda Maharaja. Also, it is not Ksirodaksayi Visnu who resides in the heart of a suddha bhakti, pure devotee in Mahaprabhu's like Srila Prabhupada but rather the Supreme Personality of Godhead, svayam bhagavan, Sri Krsna who always has Srimati Radharani by his side.

 

Yes I understand that beggar ji. I agree. No problem. A suddha bhakta in this line from Mahaprabhup would probably see Mahaprabhu turning into Radha Syama in his heart like that picture Guruvani has at the bottom of his posts. (I tried to set that as a screen saver hoping to have a large version but all I could get was a thumbnail size picture of Radha Syama on my start page but no Mahaprabhu revealing Them.)

 

It is not that Syamasundar and Supersoul are two different Gods as I am sure you know. It is the same Person acting and revealing Himself in different ways.

 

Just like when Krsna killed demons it is said that it was the Vishnu portion of Krsna that Killed them. As Krsna He just exchanges love with His devotees and doesn't need to deal with demons or universal creation or any of these things.

 

Or like when Radha and the gopis were searching for Krsna. When the gopis happened upon Vishnu they didn't see Him as Krsna. He was hidding. When Radha happened upon Vishnu He, Krsna, could no longer conceal Himself in His form as Vishnu and was forced to appear in His two handed form. (It has been as long since since I read that so I hope I got it right. If not please correct me.)

 

Now I dare say most of the devotees on earth now are not on the level of the gopis and they offered their respects to Vishnu so who are we to poo poo the Vishnu expansion in our hearts and tell Him I am not interested in you I want Krsna.

 

It is my belief that when we take this attitude we are falsely imitating Krsna's eternal consorts and in this way we become sahaji's.

 

Nobody is willing to speak on their own level because we are so fallen and we are impatient with our status and even embarassed by it. Being unwilling right now to go through the internal changes required to be granted true access to those higher lilas we try to compensate by intellectually mimicking them. This is not helpful to the growth of our creepers and even is harmful and self-deluding.

 

It is something like trying to build a tower into heaven as in the proverbial tower of Bable.

 

It is not wrong to be inquisitive of what lies ahead in our journey, to be cognizant of the goal, but I believe we must concentrate on the steps that lie right before us else we stumble along the way.

 

When we realize the basics Krsna will offer us more intimate realizations for sure but we can't fake it.

 

"Act in times that are with thee and progress ye shall call".

 

It makes no sense to try to live in the future and ignore the present because the present is what the future is made.

 

And then we see by Prabhupada's example all through his books, hundreds and thousands of times, of how he addresses people according to their level of understanding.

 

If someone asks "How does God live in my heart and how do I get to know Him "?, we don't immediately start with the arguement that Vishnu is just an expansion of Krsna. That would be of no spiritual value to the person. Those things will arise naturally in each souls progression as dictated by Caitya-guru.

 

We point out to such a person that there are five factors in every action, that the Lord in the heart is fullfilling everyone's desires both materially and spiritually, that He is waiting for us to turn back to Him (the two parrots in the tree), That he has expanded Himself outside the heart and come to us in a form that we can more readily perceive and hear from as the spiritual master and we can approach Him immediately through chanting and prayer. These basic things. There is great value in keeping things simple.m

 

And frankly I have not yet realized even the basics of Krsna consciousness so it behooves me to keep my concentrated efforts at this basic level. And in doing so I am not trying to undermine the higher rasa's but rather by doing so giving myself the best chance of ever becoming a resident of those higher rasa's myself.

[Beggar 0]

I will now speak on my own level: Yum this stuff sure tastes good. Wait a minute who's that other worm over there and what' he doing in my...

[theist 1]

 

I will now speak on my own level: Yum this stuff sure tastes good. Wait a minute who's that other worm over there and what' he doing in my...

 

Speaking on our own level OF SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING. This can be in the form of sharing with someone what we have learned about spiritual life or asking questions about the nature of spiritual life.

 

Worms should ask how they can climb out of their own s*** and not pontificate on the nature of madhuya rasa. That is the point.

[Beggar 0]

 

Speaking on our own level OF SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING. This can be in the form of sharing with someone what we have learned about spiritual life or asking questions about the nature of spiritual life.

 

Worms should ask how they can climb out of their own s*** and not pontificate on the nature of madhuya rasa. That is the point.

 

Upon reading this the dejected Mortimer C. Beggar slinked off towards his worm hole to lick his wounds.

[theist 1]

No No No Mort. We all need to climb out of our holes. So long we have lived in the dark sewer of material life. Now we need to cement sambandha-jnana and help others do the same.

 

For this thread please post something on the nature of Supersoul. Who He is, what His activities are, how we can know Him within ourselves and regonize Him in others.

[theist 1]

[Beggar 0]

έξοχη ψυχή: BG 15,17: Εκτός από αυτά τα δύο, υπάρχει η μέγιστη προσωπικότητα διαβίωσης, η ανώτατη ψυχή, ο άφθαρτος Λόρδος Himself, ο οποίος έχει εισαγάγει τους τρεις κόσμους και τα διατηρεί.

 

It's all Greek to me.

[theist 1]

TRANSLATION SB 3.9.38

O Brahmä, the prayers that you have chanted praising the glories of My transcendental activities, the penances you have undertaken to understand Me, and your firm faith in Me—all these are to be considered My causeless mercy.

 

PURPORT

When a living entity desires to serve the Lord in transcendental loving service, the Lord helps the devotee in so many ways as the caitya-guru, or the spiritual master within, and thus the devotee can perform many wonderful activities beyond material estimation. By the mercy of the Lord even a layman can compose prayers of the highest spiritual perfection. Such spiritual perfection is not limited by material qualifications but is developed by dint of one's sincere endeavor to render transcendental service. Voluntary endeavor is the only qualification for spiritual perfection. Material acquisitions of wealth or education are not considered.

 

[brajeshwara das 0]

 

Nobody is willing to speak on their own level because we are so fallen and we are impatient with our status and even embarassed by it. Being unwilling right now to go through the internal changes required to be granted true access to those higher lilas we try to compensate by intellectually mimicking them. This is not helpful to the growth of our creepers and even is harmful and self-deluding.

 

So true.

[stonehearted 0]

 

Nobody is willing to speak on their own level because we are so fallen and we are impatient with our status and even embarassed by it. Being unwilling right now to go through the internal changes required to be granted true access to those higher lilas we try to compensate by intellectually mimicking them. This is not helpful to the growth of our creepers and even is harmful and self-deluding.

 

It is something like trying to build a tower into heaven as in the proverbial tower of Bable.

 

It is not wrong to be inquisitive of what lies ahead in our journey, to be cognizant of the goal, but I believe we must concentrate on the steps that lie right before us else we stumble along the way. . . .

 

And frankly I have not yet realized even the basics of Krsna consciousness so it behooves me to keep my concentrated efforts at this basic level. And in doing so I am not trying to undermine the higher rasa's but rather by doing so giving myself the best chance of ever becoming a resident of those higher rasa's myself.

There's a nice verse in the Eleventh Canto of the Bhagavatam that Bhaktivinoda Thakura cites several times. Krishna tells Uddhava,

 

sve sve 'dhikare ya nistha

sa gunah parikirtitah

viparyayas tu dosah syad

ubhayor esa niscayah

 

Real piety, or real beauty, means to understand your actual position and behave accordingly. Behaving otherwise is impiety. This is how to ascertain what's a virtue and what's a flaw.

 

That's the kind of life that calls progress.

[Guest guest]

Theist:

 

No No No Mort. We all need to climb out of our holes. So long we have lived in the dark sewer of material life. <b>Now we need to cement sambandha-jnana and help others do the same.</b>

 

<i>Where's humility there Theist. We, <b>ordinary devotees</b> learn spiritual lessons everyday ! You thought just by reading a few books, having the good fortune of physically seeing Srila Prabhupad for 1 or two hours , we can be Guru and explain the finer points of the Bhagavatam. You do not know what real sadhu sanga means, you do not know finding spiritual meanings is not just only by reading/understanding the scriptures on our own, but by reading/hearing realizations of past and present acharyas, you do not know what seva bhakti means, especially to Sri Guru and Vaishnavas. And you thought even without bhakti you think you can directly be in communication with the Supersoul. Even Lord Chaitanya begged Isvara Puri for initiation. That is why you are lacking in the finer points of spiritual knowledge. You are arrogant !!! </i>

 

 

Theist: Worms should ask how they can climb out of their own s*** and not pontificate on the nature of madhuya rasa. That is the point.

 

<i>Definitely, you should not. By just reading and pretending you are an advanced devotee, that you are directly communicating with the paramatma you will just become offensive to the glories of the rasa . To get into the gate of Vraja you need a guide and a humble state of being.

 

 

This is my last post. If the only thing you need to advance (or maybe you think you are already advanced) are the books and the paramatma, then why are you associating with devotees in this time and space? </i>

[Guest guest]

Lord Jesus Christ also spoke of Supersouls influence on the living being in regard to assessing the absolute truth. He speaks of How the Father sends the son, that the Supreme Lord speaks to the individual thru the medium of the Spiritual master. This description of chaitaguru is very clear:

 

(Matt 16: 15-19)

One day, Lord Jesus Christ asked His disciples, "Who do the people say that I am?" Looking to Simon Peter, He asked, "Who do you say I am?" Simon responded, "You are the annointed one, the Son of the Living Lord."

 

In response, The Lord said, "You are to be congratulated, Simon, son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father. You are the foundation of My mission that no one can overcome, and you possess the keys to both the eternal and temporal kingdoms. But you must not tell others that I am the annointed, for they must come to Me in the same way."

 

So, in our spiritual quest, we may be introduced to a spiritual master, but the One to verify the potency of the Spiritual Master is supersoul. This internal and everpresent guidance is an eternal associate. Soi, if we have another discussion about who to follow, who is guru, we can counter that all beings have a bonafide spiritual master, known as Sri Chaita Guru. If we would only follow!!!

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Why the severe criticism. You have no right, because you are not the spiritual master, either. You chastize the initiator of this nectarian discussion for the lamest of reasons, stating false things about what we should be doing with our time.

 

By saying that someone has no right to speak in a spirit of istagosthi, you are to be severely criticized. You should give uyp your "humble 2" moniker and change it to the most arrogant pretender.

 

Give me a break, go hang with the lovers of discord. mad mahax

[brajeshwara das 0]

We are what doing? Arrangement, making arrangement for Sankirtan. If there is no Sankirtan there is no result. And Sankirtan will be without offense. And first offense is satam ninda namnah param aparadham vitanute that meant sadhu ninda we not with... abuse anyone. Who is sadhu we do not know. Then we will be protected with that thought. I shall be good. You are good or bad, that is another thing. But first I shall be good, and with that knowledge if I shall proceed, I shall get benefit. ~ from Sharanagati To Humility, Tolerance & Giving Honor To Others Krsna.cc radio archives, by Swami B.S. Govinda

 

I should consider the following is for me to practice, not for others. Sorry if this is inappropriate, I'm not trying to instruct anyone, I just want to remove the obstacles that are getting in the way of the mercy:

 

Trinad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna amanina manadena kirtaniya sada harih

"One should think oneself to be more humble than the blade of grass, more tolerant than the tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige, and ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the Holy Name of the Lord constantly."

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna

 

 

We all, one time or the other have said something that should not be said, and that includes me. I become passionate and for that I beg forgiveness.

 

Still, I will emphasize to Theist that to become a spiritual teacher, to teach others as he was saying that he will do in his previous post, let alone to be a Guru needs more than reading and thinking that paramatma is talking to you.

 

My question to him is this. He had the oportunity to physically and symbolically give his life (read surrender ) to Srila Prabhupad, why did he not do so? From years of reading his posts, he met and knew Srila Prabhupad for <b>years ,/b>while SP was still physically with us. Is it because it is easier to be a Guru of our own self?

[theist 1]

Thanks friends. =:-)

 

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

We all, one time or the other have said something that should not be said, and that includes me. I become passionate and for that I beg forgiveness.

 

I accept your oblique apology.

 

 

Still, I will emphasize to Theist that to become a spiritual teacher, to teach others as he was saying that he will do in his previous post, let alone to be a Guru needs more than reading and thinking that paramatma is talking to you.

 

I will answer your indirectly posed questions. I notice there is nothing new in them that I haven't stated many times before but I will post to try to keep you a little pacified.

 

We all have a duty to share anything we learn about the ways of the Lord with others who haven't learned them yet. That is one point. Another is to discuss spiritual topics and insights with others is both to firm up what has been learned and to learn other angles on God realization that others have gained. In this way I am trying to develop a taste for such discussions per Bhagavad-gita.

 

The thoughts of My pure devotees dwell in Me, their lives are fully devoted to My service, and they derive great satisfaction and bliss from always enlightening one another and conversing about Me. Bg 10.K

 

As for teaching others what we have learned, if you object to that then I can only say you have not gained a farthings worth of understanding what the Krsna conscious movement is all about for teaching others according to our own realization is the heart of the spreading God consciousness. Read Mahaprabhupa's instructions to those He turned into devotees while on His south Indian tour. "...in this way become guru and deliver the land." If we have learned little still we should share little and be careful not to try to exceed our limitations. BUT WE MUST SHARE IT LITTLE OR GREAT.

I might add that at the same time you object to my speaking, you yourself are instructing me.

 

Paramatma is guiding everyone. He guides souls to heaven to hell and every place in between. Have you read the Bhagavad-gita? Or are you too advanced for that book?

 

We see and hear paramatma first through scriptures,we hear His voice through sastra. He also speaks to us through ordinary experiences but we rarely hear. He spoke to me today this way and I heard this one. I'll tell that in my next post. I suspect that He is always speaking to us through all experiences if we only had the ears to hear.

 

 

My question to him is this. He had the oportunity to physically and symbolically give his life (read surrender ) to Srila Prabhupad, why did he not do so? From years of reading his posts, he met and knew Srila Prabhupad for years ,/b>while SP was still physically with us. Is it because it is easier to be a Guru of our own self?

If you want to ask me a question why don't you address me like a person who is present. You had no problem doing that when attacking me.

 

My relation with Srila Prabhupada or lack of one is none of your damn business. Rather arrogant of you to ask frankly. But nontheless here are a couple general reasons. I knew I couldn't keep the four reg.s or keep up the rest of the sadhana for the rest of my life so I found it best not to go before the pure devotee and make such a vow. To make such a vow and not keep it is an offense.

 

I never knew Srila Prabhupada. I had the good fortune to see him a few times and hear him speak once on the Srimad Bhagavatam. I caught his merciful glance upon me twice during ratha-yatra as I walked next to the cart he was on. I have always been an outsider and never part of any "inner circle".

 

The reason I haven't surrender to Krsna's devotee heart and soul is the same reason you haven't surrendered to Krsna's devotee heart and soul. Are you thinking you are now in a position of full surender to Krsna's devotee? These are questions best directed inward towards one's own self in a spirit of honest introspection.

 

I am no doubt on the slow track due to material attachments but on the path just the same. I see spiritual life as a process that must culminate in a complete 100% change of heart and I am to some degree in that process. No doubt it will take a vast number of future births but on the path nontheless.

 

You know I opened this thread thinking that others would participate in the spirit of it and in doing so we could all learn more on the nature of the Lord in the heart. This is not in the least understood or realized in the present GV community, in the west at least, and this ignorance is at the heart of why all the devotee camps spend so much time arguing over whose guru is best as well as feel they have to resort to ecclesiastical methods of revealing guru to others. They have not yet learned that it is Supersoul who reveals his devotee. This is Krsna consciousness 101.

 

We haven't even learned the mutiplication tables yet and we are attempting to master and teach calculus and beyond.

 

Hopefully you will have some positive contributions to make concerning the Lord in the heart. Afterall He is the subject here and not me.

[theist 1]

I got caught a message from the Lord in the heart today. I was buying a couple picture frames at the local Goodwill store. As the lady rang up the bill she asked me if I qualified for the "old man" discount. LOL. I said not yet and then saw the sign that said anyone over 55 gets a 10% discount. I just had my 55th.

 

The realization that came with the incident is that there is no use trying to hang on to this body. As it's nearing demise is visble to others I must also acknowledge it.

 

It was a powerful wake up call to me.

 

Well anyway I guess you had to be there.

[theist 1]

PURPORT

As the Supersoul of all living entities, Lord Krishna could understand what was going on in the mind of Arjuna. The use of the word Hrishikesa in this connection indicates that He knew everything. And the word Partha, or the son of Kunti, or Pritha, is also similarly significant in reference to Arjuna. As a friend, He wanted to inform Arjuna that because Arjuna was the son of Pritha, the sister of His own father Vasudeva, He had agreed to be the charioteer of Arjuna. Now what did Krishna mean when He told Arjuna to "behold the Kurus"? Did Arjuna want to stop there and not fight? Krishna never expected such things from the son of His aunt Pritha. The mind of Arjuna was thus predicted by the Lord in friendly joking. Bg 1.25 purport

What I see in this purport is that Supersoul is within Krsna and not separate from Him. Certainly His manifestation as the Lord in the heart is not the totality of Krsna but it is one aspect that cannot be cleaved from Him.

The two-handed Krsna form is said to be the totality of Krsna in all His unlimited and ever expanding aspects. I believe the devotee needs to make immediate connection with the Lord in whatever way is open to Him at the moment. For many of us who are at the beginning level this means appreciating His presence where we are present.

We are presently present in the material dimension through misdirected consciousness but the Lord has kindly come with us into this fantasy world and indeed is present not only in this fantasy but as the very substance of this fantastical display in it's puriied form.

If one is free from conditioning in this world then he is free to be entranced and engaged in the higher more intimate rasa's. For the rest of us I believe we need to become aware of Krsna in our immediate environment in accord with our own level of realization, which as beginners will seem by quite basic, especially when contrasted to the residents of Vrndavan. But to us it will be glorious as the basics are also is Krsna.

It is helpfull to remember that the gopis were not all descended from Goloka with Krsna, many were advanced sages from the time of Ramachandra. They certainly didn't just show up and jump into the rasa dance.

I believe the association of Caitanya Mahaprabhu's devotees can certainly hasten the process. This may be an advantage offered to the most fallen...us,but still there is no artifical jumping involved. No matter the speed of developmental progress , Krsna consciousness is always measured in realization and not by academic or intellectual standards.

[Guest guest]

Haribol. You may have your name back. I also apologize for being so blunt, but I have a thing about freedom of speech, the right to share realizations, etc. If you dont mind, Id like to respond to your post:

 

humble 2: "We all, one time or the other have said something that should not be said, and that includes me. I become passionate and for that I beg forgiveness."

 

mahaksadasa: Without open and frank discussion, istagosthi has no meaning. We all get weird now and then, but if we correct the situation right away, by restating, by apologizing for excesses, by clarification, we avoid the pitfalls of kali yuga type discussions which are valueless. There are three ways to discuss the issues: vada, jalpa and vitanda.

 

In a vada discussion the motive of all concerned is to find the truth,

this is supposed to be the perfect and ideal discussion. The persons

who engage like this are sober and impartial about the outcome. they

simply want to know what is the truth of the matter. They are in the

mood of goodness.

 

Jalpa is a discussion wherein one is not interessted in what is said

by others, wether it has some truth or all the truth, because one

simply wants to be heard. Any other view or or contribution is of no

interest. This is in the mode of passion.

 

A vitanda discussion is in the mode of ignorance. In this version the

truth is of no value. One simply wants to win at all cost.

 

So, in istagosthi, we all strive to engage in Vada, all else can be handled on the section where spiritual ideas are not first and foremost.

 

Humble 2: "Still, I will emphasize to Theist that to become a spiritual teacher, to teach others as he was saying that he will do in his previous post, let alone to be a Guru needs more than reading and thinking that paramatma is talking to you."

 

mahaksadasa: The only requirement, confirmed by all the acaryas, is that one does not go beyond one's own realization. If one speaks up to the level of one's realization, this is first class preaching. Srila Prabhupada initiates us all to be of the gosthianandi line, meaning from day one, we preach. Your requirement to be a preacher does not at all reflect Srila Prabhupadas requirements. He stated that a first time visitor to a Sunday feast who goes home and tells friends and family about good music, good food, and good friends he met, this is a first class preacher of Lord Chaitanyas Movement. So, all who speak the glories of how they have been affected by exposure to Lord Chaitanyas Movement are first class, and should be given the recognization that Srila Prabhupada gives them.

 

As far as Paramatma speaking to us, He always has and always will. This is a poor understanding on your part, thinking that the Lord is Partial. The key is the listener, not the speaker. Paramatma realization is when the living entity recognizes his best friend with Him always, not some kind of magic appearance by Lord Paramatma. This also can be understood from Srila Prabhupadas vast teachings on guru tattwa, in that the spiritual master does not teach anything new, rather reminds the individual of the eternal relationship he has with Krsna, by facillitating recognition of Paramatma.

 

humble 2: "My question to him is this. He had the oportunity to physically and symbolically give his life (read surrender) to Srila Prabhupad, why did he not do so? From years of reading his posts, he met and knew Srila Prabhupad for years ,while SP was still physically with us. Is it because it is easier to be a Guru of our own self?"

 

mahaksadasa: Theist can answer this on his own, but physical and symbolic surrender to Srila Prabhupada is a lifetime project. Even the greatest disciples, the ones we all know, if they are truely honest, would deny the meaning of what you say, telling you that they never did surrender. Many, on the other hand, did all the right things back then, but then went on to commit the most grievous elephant offenses. Why is that? Because they became too familiar with him, and this bred contempt. They began to view his life as ordinary. One has to realize the surrender process before one makes comments on why someone doesnt do so. Srila Prabhupada did not take initiation until eleven years after he accepted his guru, and another 20+ years before he began the missionary work in the west. We are not Srila Prabhupada, but his life example is there in plain view. He actually insists that we not accept him suddenly, and calls such action fanaticism.

 

Finally, one has to realize what is meant by Guru before one tries to use the word in a negative way. Guru means a great acarya, but also means supersoul, also means friend who gives what he has in way of Krsna Consciousness to another, also means one who may not even be a great devotee, yet gives Krsna inadvertantly to another, as in the case stated by the acarya who offers full guru obiesancies to Srimati Cintamini, who acted as a prostitute, yet gave the devotee Krsna.

 

And, as far as being guru to oneself, this we all must do. If someone asks, "are you trying to be guru?", the proper answer is "absolutely yes". If we do not become heavily laden with love of God, if we do not try to teach ourselves constatntly the proper way to act in Krsna Consciousness, then we have failed miserably.

 

Thanks for your participation, humble 2, and please accept my comments in the manner in which they were written, hoping against hope on being true to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga. Hare Krsna, ys in cooperation, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

To Theist,

 

Serious Christians take the symbolism of baptism to signify their acceptance of the Holy Spirit. Buddhism has their share too. Gaudiya Vaishnavism is no exception. In Gaudiya Vaishnavism symbols are meaning – in rituals, worship, act of surrender/initiation. Of course keeping to the spirit of symbols is another story. But still ….

 

If you say Srila Prabhupad is your Guru who is speaking in the form of caitya, prove that you are serious, the GV way by taking initiation.

 

SP once said that the servant of the servant of the servant is the most merciful position. I’m sure if you take initiation from one of his qualified disicples and render service to him/her, SP will be most happy. Afterall you are following SP’s precepts.

 

Failing to do that, I will assume, as you had the good fortune of associating physically with Srila Prabhupad but did not take that opportunity to beg for his mercy to give you initiation, that you are an ambitious cut and paste preacher, nothing more.

[Guest guest]

Theist has his own spirituality and I don't feel it is fair for people to demand that he should do what they tell him to do. Spirituality is a personal issue of faith. Nobody has the right to tell someone else what to do in their spiritual life EXCEPT IF THEY ARE GURU. If Theist hasn't voluntarily agreed to accept YOU a as Guru then why do YOU (and Puru, on that other thread) insist on Theist following the path of action you deem to be correct.

 

Live and let live.

[theist 1]

 

To Theist,

 

Serious Christians take the symbolism of baptism to signify their acceptance of the Holy Spirit. Buddhism has their share too. Gaudiya Vaishnavism is no exception. In Gaudiya Vaishnavism symbols are meaning – in rituals, worship, act of surrender/initiation. Of course keeping to the spirit of symbols is another story. But still ….

 

If you say Srila Prabhupad is your Guru who is speaking in the form of caitya, prove that you are serious, the GV way by taking initiation.

 

SP once said that the servant of the servant of the servant is the most merciful position. I’m sure if you take initiation from one of his qualified disicples and render service to him/her, SP will be most happy. Afterall you are following SP’s precepts.

 

Failing to do that, I will assume, as you had the good fortune of associating physically with Srila Prabhupad but did not take that opportunity to beg for his mercy to give you initiation, that you are an ambitious cut and paste preacher, nothing more.

 

Your assumtions of me are quite meanlingess in my life. Again you persist in knowing my personal business as if it is any of yours. By not contributing to the theme of this thread and persisting to try and stick your nose in where it does not belong to the detrement of the thread it is clear you are simply a cyber troll. Maybe even an alter ego of Puru which i suspect is the case. You appeared after I again tried to cut it off with him. But no matter. You said you have read my posts for years. I ask you why? If you find nothing in them then ignore them. It is no sweat of my forehead either way.

 

Anyway please get off this thread if you have no glorification of Supersoul to offer. Go start an anti-theist thread and run with it and leave me alone on this one. That is 1oz. of manners I am asking for. Surely an advanced and proper bhakta such as yourself can spare that much.