Why Do Vaishnavites Say Shiva Is Not Lord?

January 21, 2007

BEautifully put let me put my view in on again:

Jay Swaminarayan

According to the sampradya i follow Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself has stated and written in His own words that the Vedas have declared Narayan of vaikunth and Shiv as of having one Brahm Swarup.

Therefore those who look and understand one of them being supreme and the other not, are the greatest fools amongst fools and are worthy of hell.

As both are of the same. They are here to look after the Universe which we live in. They both are Sagun Avtaars of Avtaari Bhagwaan.

You guys forget that there are Satlok, vaikunth and kailash in every single universe. There are innumberable universes. Each have a Brahma Vishnu and Shiv. The Skand Puran as well as other scriptures clearly state this. But all are confused of the true way of Upasna in the world today. Its not like how it was once. kaliyug as indeed messed up the minds of those wanting to follow God.

All fight for what they think is right and end up upsetting each other and this in turn makes them take avgun and they end up falling from their Satsang.

its not about who worships which avtaar or which path they follow. All Avtaars are worthy of worship and Dhyaan can be done on all avtaars to break away from the cycle of birth and death. The truth is people do not tend to have Ishtadev. having your mind and soul set on one Avtaar is the best way forward. beliveng Him to be the Supreme. Thsi is how it once was. this is how it really is meant to be. Whether it is Sri krishna, Shri Raam, Vaman, Narsih, Shiv etc. They are all one. They come down for a purpose, once completed they go back.

So stop fighting and think about it. As attaining such a human form is difficult even for teh devas of Swarg. We have such a human form we have to learn to live in harmony with oneself (the soul not teh body) and the relationship shoul be built with God- with any one of His forms. Then ecoem an ekantikl Bhakt through Dharm, Gyaan, Vairagya and most importantly Bhakti.

We end such human forms by quarelling all our lives. This just entagles us deeper in teh web of Maya. That we can never get out of it. So when will we worship God if we keep it this way?>?????????

If you have shraddha with Mahadev then stick to that. Dont let any one else question you. There is nothing wrong in this. But do it correct, this is what you have to be made sure of. Do ity in the Satvik manner.

And if vaishnavs say that why you do such then theyr not Vaishnavs. As a true Vaishnav should not say such. They are fools if they do and fall in the deepest if Kumbhipaak hell. Me as a Vaishnav i am learing not to take such Avgun. As this will simply halt me. The world can say as they like. All i am learning to see is my Bhagwaan Swaminarayan in all. In all Murtis i see Him. He is Raam, krishna, Allah, Mahadev. Whatever you call Him as He is my Ishtadev. if i was told worship Ma Durga then i would but seeing my Maharaj in Her form as well.

Internally i am happy, so happy that when i look around i feel gulty for seeing others so sad. therefore i try and teach them. As if your a follower of God then why are you so sad? Where are you going wrong./? Even in oain a bhakt has to be happy. As its not all about material gain you know?

Its about spiritual gain. We have drank so much milk from the breast of our mothers in all our lives that all this milk would fill up the ocean. this is what the Shreemad Bhagwat says. So think about it... isnt it time we retired now??

JAy Swaminarayan

JAy Gopinathji Maharaj

Jay Siddheshwar MAhadev

January 28, 2007

I too follow Swaminarayan and to my knowledge and the knowledge of my Gurudev, we are followers of the Sri Sampradaya later called Uddava Sampradaya which originates from Lord Vishnu and this sampradaya is then includes many saints including Sri Ramanuj. So therefore we are Vaishnavas not Brahmavadhis (Brahmavadhis believe that all incarnations come from the Brahm-Svarup). Based on shastras such as the Isah-upanishad, Lord Vishnu is the base of the Brahman, Brahman being the effulgence of the personal form of the Lord (Vishnu) so therefore all incarnations and guna avataras come from Lord Vishnu, but only Lord Vishnu (Mukunda) can liberate souls of this world not any other deva or devis. Conclusion: We followers of Swami Narayan are also Vaishnavas, ask any Guru and he will tell you the same.

The scriptures go on to elaborate, and we must be very careful to understand this, there are two forms of Lord Siva, one is the eternal Sada Shiva who is an expansion of Lord Sankarshan who lives on the Spiritual side of the creation across the Viraj river (boundary between material and spiritual) and on the material side of the creation there is Rudra who is a guna avatara, an avatara in charge of the destruction of all the material creation, therefore the difference between Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu is that of milk and yoghurt. Lord Shiva is a particular incarnation from the material side that fulfills a particular material adminstration or function therefore he is know as devata.

J