Career Gurus and Institutional Dependence

[Guruvani 0]

The problem with the institutionalization of the Sankirtan movement into a corperate entity with so many branches and facilities is that it fosters institutional dependence and produces career gurus who pursue the position as more or less an occupation and means of livelyhood.

 

Because so many devotees become dependent upon the institution for their food and shelter, we end up with career gurus who adopt the position out of the need for security in over-dependence on the institution.

 

To solidify a secure position as guru in ISKCON can in some cases be just a survival instinct, rather than a divine mission.

In other words being guru can be a job or a career and a means of support and sustenance for otherwise unqualified people who don't have any skills or education otherwise.

 

It appears to be a rather chronic condition in ISKCON nowadays as there are Swamis lined up all in a row looking to garner some following and thereby acquire support and sustenance as a career guru in ISKCON.

[theist 1]

True enough Guruvani. This is why we are advised to avoid ecclesiastical gurus. How can we take shelter of someone as Guru who himself is worried about such things? We need to take shelter of the soul that has abandoned himself completely as a helpless soul at the feet of Krsna. That is the only secure position for the jiva. Our example for this is Srila Prabhupada on the Jaladuta with his handful of rupees and a bag of cereal.

[theist 1]

 

It appears to be a rather chronic condition in ISKCON nowadays as there are Swamis lined up all in a row looking to garner some following and thereby acquire support and sustenance as a career guru in ISKCON.

 

Compare this to how Narada Muni renounced material life. This is a good reason not to take sannyasa in this age.

 

"Better a sincere sweeper of the street than a charleton guru." -Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

[Guruvani 0]

 

 

"Better a sincere sweeper of the street than a charleton guru." -Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

 

Yeah, i have got the sweeper in the street part down, now if I can just become sincere, then I have made it to the top.

[Sridas 0]

We don't want to do away with temples and congregational centres all together, so we also need some sincere sweepers of the Lords Temples.

 

King Prataparudra is the perfect example even the present day King is a very honorable vaisnava.

 

Deity worship and sanyas may not be recommended so much in Kali yuga yet still Srila Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati Thakure did establish it thruout his temples and mission.

The genuine sanyassis that visit us are a lifeline in troubled times.

Always remember the example of the ones you trust.

[Sridas 0]

The problem isn't the dress or the Ideal, rather the persons motives in the dress!

[Guruvani 0]

 

The genuine sanyassis that visit us are a lifeline in troubled times.

Always remember the example of the ones you trust.

It's just the sannyasa profile in the modern techno-age is such an artificial version of sannyasa.

Instead of walking barefoot from village to village, shrine to shrine, temple to temple, dhama to dhama and etching out the most simple and meager survival, they are jet-setting all over the world in luxury and staying in rooms like 5 Star Hotels and eating luxurious sweets and ghee-soaked meals - imitating the elderly self-realized acharya of ISKCON.

 

Sannyasa in the modern day Krishna consciousness movement is a pampered lifestyle of privilege and luxury and very detrimental to the image and the purpose of the sannyasa ashram.

 

Sannyasis should be the topmost example of austerity and sacrifice, yet today it is a cushy platform for giving up work and living off of the hard work of others.

The annual airfare expenditures of the JET-SET Swamis of ISKCON is astronomical.

There could have been dozens of marvelous temples built and millions of books published with money spent on the JET-SET Swami elite of the movement in the last 30 years.

 

I am just a little unimpressed with the Jet-set Swami elite of the movement and see it as a big waste of money for the most part.

 

They should live in utter simplicity and austerity or the whole thing is a sham.

[theist 1]

Yeah, i have got the sweeper in the street part down, now if I can just become sincere, then I have made it to the top.

[Beggar 0]

How about professional temple commanders in ISKCON as far back as 1978. I saw it with my own eyes.

As far as Jayapataka is concerned check out his astrological future for 2007.

[Guruvani 0]

 

How about professional temple commanders in ISKCON as far back as 1978. I saw it with my own eyes.

As far as Jayapataka is concerned check out his astrological future for 2007.

 

UH..... Is that supposed to be a funny?

Are you saying that professional temple commanders are a major issue in making ISKCON into a greatly marvelous humanitarian mission of Lord Caitanya?

 

Even I was a temple commander at one point and I traveled from temple to temple by sticking my thumb out and preaching from one temple to another.

 

One time a nice devote named Garuda das heard me talking about how I hitch-hiked from one temple to another with maybe a dollar or two to my name and he said "that is REAL sannyasa".

 

Let me tell you, hitch-hiking around the country and preaching was THE most happy time of my life.

Sleeping in a ditch or under an overpass was pure bliss.

I loved it.

I did it off and on for several years.

[Sridas 0]

Granted abuse is everywhere, but it's laughable to think sanyassis can just go down to the local travel agent and beg for a ticket to other countries, if that is their calling. I don't think anyone is professing to be Goswami living under trees. Even if they were it would probably be imitation.

Which is the xtreme other end of the spectrum Srila Bhaktisiddanta warned us against, false renunciation.

At the same time we should'nt loose sight of the Goswamis example.

 

There were many traditionalists that criticised SBSST even using the motor car and printing press, so he inaugarated yukta vairagya, because so many hypocritical saharjiyas in India were claiming to represent Krsna consciouness in the guise of mendicants, whilst doing all kinds of nefarious activity..

Also it's no teddy bears picnic travelling on planes these days thru different time zones, climates, changes of food, customs hassles, terror precautions, especially as the body ages and gets more infirm, it's quite an austerity, and in some front line countries it's a nightmare. Who is going to go to the far corners of the earth doing this relief work?

I don't think we can even imagine what it is like just wearing the cloth of sanyass, it's a heavy sacrifice, if we were to just stay glued to our computer every day and broadcast to the world it may help in some ways but people still need these envoys to visit their houses and areas..

 

I know a few outside Iskcon who still do madhukari just to get by, but for reaching out to every town and village they take the donations of the grhastras, to preach to a wider audience, still every individual has to find their own personal balance and regularly check their motives. I don't think you can tarr everyone with the same brush.

The babaji path is there for those who don't wish to preach so much but that is even more of a razors edge when it comes to example.

and there are even fewer of those real Vamsi das Babajis or Gaur Kishores.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Also it's no teddy bears picnic travelling on planes these days thru different time zones, climates, changes of food, customs hassles, terror precautions, especially as the body ages and gets more infirm, it's quite an austerity, and in some front line countries it's a nightmare.

Ah... poor babies.....

I work from 6 at night to 4:30 a.m. doing beast of burden work in a giant warehouse.

These guys wouldn't last 3 hours doing what I do for survival.

 

I jet-setted across the globe last year myself and I can tell you it was a bed of roses compared to the job I do to support my family.

 

Flying around the world is fun.

I have done it a few times myself.

It's not any real austerity that I can see, unless you are a wimp.

 

Guilty!!! I love to jet-set around the world!

That is how I know it can be sense gratification very easily.

 

But, I am a karmi beast of burden..... not a sannyasi.