Kashyapa sutra #2: Question about desires

November 17, 2006

Hi Chris,

I was just reading chapter 3, verse 27 of the Geeta and came across

these lines. It adds another dimension to the discussions on Karma.

I thought it would be of interest, and I apologize for the

intrusion. It says:

prakrite kriyamanani gunye karmani sarvasha

ahamkarabimudatma kartahamiti manyate.

Translated:

All the karma or work is performed by prakriti and the three gunas

(mahamaya's maya). Only the ignorant in their ego believe that they

are the doer.

So, what he means is that actually we or our Self do nothing. When

things happen, we foolishly and egotistically lay claim to it and

say 'I did it' and then it becomes ours. We have to pay for it which

then becomes our karma. If you think of it in this way it is

actually funny - a divine joke at our expense.

Regards

Papia

, "Chris Kirner"

<chriskirner1956 wrote:

>

> Kanda,

>

> You said:

>

> "In the unitive experience the desire may be emulation of the past

> example."

>

> This made me think (and I'm probably just "remembering" things I've

> read in the past) about the question of intensity. An "example" to

use

> your term, that has been stored from the past and is now coming to

> fruition and affecting our desires in the present, must have an

> intensity of feeling, a bhaava, and this bhaava must impact our

> present reality. Don't you think?

>

> We are storing innumerable karmas every day in our unconscious

> (chitta). Some are obviously more intense than others, either

through

> repetition or through the emotional impact, or perhaps other means

(is

> there a special category of intensity for spiritual

> examples/experiences?). It stands to reason that there is a

> relationship between the intensity of the stored example and the

> intensity of its affect on our present, our desires and

limitations.

>

> What this would mean is that when a karma with enough intensity of

> bhaava ripens and begins to affect our behavior, our reaction to

that

> bhaava, if it is like that bhaava (not a reasoned response to

mitigate

> it), would continue to feed that experience - like a feedback loop

> that never ends until we finally do something different and stop

the

> loop. Hmmm...

>

> Whether this idea explains all of the experience of karma, and I

know

> it doesn't, it does make clear why living with the feeling

that "all

> is God", and performing every action as worship or service to Her,

> stops the cycle of karma. The karmas will come but the only thing

that

> is fed with bhaava, with intensity, is the idea of God. Eventually,

> the only karmas that will ripen are God-karmas!

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

> , kandaaran@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 11/15/2006 11:17:11 P.M. Mountain Standard

Time,

> > chriskirner1956@ writes:

> >

> > The part our desires play in creating our karmas is apparent

when we

> > understand the relationship between our desires and our

subsequent

> > actions - what this sutra is about. What is less clear is how

our

> > prarabdha karmas impact our present desires. Is there a causal

> > relationship? Do we desire what we desire because of our

prarabdha

> > karmas? The answer must be yes, at least to a degree, for our

karmas

> > are not merely what happens "to" us, but also who we are, or, at

> > least, who we appear to be.

> >

> > Namaste Dear Family,

> >

> > This is my view of the relationship between prarabdha karmas and

> desire. If

> > in a lifetime you as an observer of your own acts see your

action

> and the

> > actions of others involved in the experience as a unit, the

action

> of others

> > becomes part of your experience. Then you bring this

accumulated

> knowledge

> > into the present birth. In current experience the reminders of

> past karmas come

> > up, ( someone in a past life that presented a different way to

> approach the

> > problem through example ). .In the unitive experience the

desire

> may be

> > emulation of the past example In our current lifetime based on

> personal

> > reflectiveness the same may occur.

> >

> > With Love

> >

> > Kanda

> >

> > Om Namah Sivaya

> >

>

November 18, 2006

Sorry to interfer with your conversation but that is very interesting.

Can't wait to hear what you have to say about this Chris.

Oh, & what is Prakrite? How does it translate.

Debi

"roy.papia" <roy.papia > wrote:

Hi Chris,

I was just reading chapter 3, verse 27 of the Geeta and came across

these lines. It adds another dimension to the discussions on Karma.

I thought it would be of interest, and I apologize for the

intrusion. It says:

prakrite kriyamanani gunye karmani sarvasha

ahamkarabimudatma kartahamiti manyate.

Translated:

All the karma or work is performed by prakriti and the three gunas

(mahamaya's maya). Only the ignorant in their ego believe that they

are the doer.

So, what he means is that actually we or our Self do nothing. When

things happen, we foolishly and egotistically lay claim to it and

say 'I did it' and then it becomes ours. We have to pay for it which

then becomes our karma. If you think of it in this way it is

actually funny - a divine joke at our expense.

Regards

Papia

, "Chris Kirner"

<chriskirner1956 wrote:

>

> Kanda,

>

> You said:

>

> "In the unitive experience the desire may be emulation of the past

> example."

>

> This made me think (and I'm probably just "remembering" things I've

> read in the past) about the question of intensity. An "example" to

use

> your term, that has been stored from the past and is now coming to

> fruition and affecting our desires in the present, must have an

> intensity of feeling, a bhaava, and this bhaava must impact our

> present reality. Don't you think?

>

> We are storing innumerable karmas every day in our unconscious

> (chitta). Some are obviously more intense than others, either

through

> repetition or through the emotional impact, or perhaps other means

(is

> there a special category of intensity for spiritual

> examples/experiences?). It stands to reason that there is a

> relationship between the intensity of the stored example and the

> intensity of its affect on our present, our desires and

limitations.

>

> What this would mean is that when a karma with enough intensity of

> bhaava ripens and begins to affect our behavior, our reaction to

that

> bhaava, if it is like that bhaava (not a reasoned response to

mitigate

> it), would continue to feed that experience - like a feedback loop

> that never ends until we finally do something different and stop

the

> loop. Hmmm...

>

> Whether this idea explains all of the experience of karma, and I

know

> it doesn't, it does make clear why living with the feeling

that "all

> is God", and performing every action as worship or service to Her,

> stops the cycle of karma. The karmas will come but the only thing

that

> is fed with bhaava, with intensity, is the idea of God. Eventually,

> the only karmas that will ripen are God-karmas!

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

> , kandaaran@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 11/15/2006 11:17:11 P.M. Mountain Standard

Time,

> > chriskirner1956@ writes:

> >

> > The part our desires play in creating our karmas is apparent

when we

> > understand the relationship between our desires and our

subsequent

> > actions - what this sutra is about. What is less clear is how

our

> > prarabdha karmas impact our present desires. Is there a causal

> > relationship? Do we desire what we desire because of our

prarabdha

> > karmas? The answer must be yes, at least to a degree, for our

karmas

> > are not merely what happens "to" us, but also who we are, or, at

> > least, who we appear to be.

> >

> > Namaste Dear Family,

> >

> > This is my view of the relationship between prarabdha karmas and

> desire. If

> > in a lifetime you as an observer of your own acts see your

action

> and the

> > actions of others involved in the experience as a unit, the

action

> of others

> > becomes part of your experience. Then you bring this

accumulated

> knowledge

> > into the present birth. In current experience the reminders of

> past karmas come

> > up, ( someone in a past life that presented a different way to

> approach the

> > problem through example ). .In the unitive experience the

desire

> may be

> > emulation of the past example In our current lifetime based on

> personal

> > reflectiveness the same may occur.

> >

> > With Love

> >

> > Kanda

> >

> > Om Namah Sivaya

> >

>

Sponsored Link

Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new house payment

November 18, 2006

Dear Papia,

Whenever I say "It's all Her", I'm always making an effort to see Her

presence, Her light, Her intelligence, Her life-force, emminating and

animating, Her grace, protecting and serving. But it's always Me,

trying to perceive, Her. It's never Her experiencing Herself through me.

Every time I read that verse, I understand it, vaguely, but the

experience is lacking...I just can't quite grasp it. This Me that

tries, is the very subject of that verse. Even such light as I have is

of the character of sattwa guna...

I struggle so, struggle to create discipline in my life, struggle to

overcome negative habits, struggle to be happy and not lose hope.

It does seem like a kind of Divine Joke. But you know what? I think, I

firmly believe, that when I finally see Me through the pure lense of

the atman, it will all appear beautiful beyond belief. All the

struggle, all the pain, everything, beautiful.

Jai Maa!

Chris

, "roy.papia" <roy.papia wrote:

>

> Hi Chris,

> I was just reading chapter 3, verse 27 of the Geeta and came across

> these lines. It adds another dimension to the discussions on Karma.

> I thought it would be of interest, and I apologize for the

> intrusion. It says:

> prakrite kriyamanani gunye karmani sarvasha

> ahamkarabimudatma kartahamiti manyate.

> Translated:

> All the karma or work is performed by prakriti and the three gunas

> (mahamaya's maya). Only the ignorant in their ego believe that they

> are the doer.

>

> So, what he means is that actually we or our Self do nothing. When

> things happen, we foolishly and egotistically lay claim to it and

> say 'I did it' and then it becomes ours. We have to pay for it which

> then becomes our karma. If you think of it in this way it is

> actually funny - a divine joke at our expense.

>

> Regards

> Papia

>

> , "Chris Kirner"

> <chriskirner1956@> wrote:

> >

> > Kanda,

> >

> > You said:

> >

> > "In the unitive experience the desire may be emulation of the past

> > example."

> >

> > This made me think (and I'm probably just "remembering" things I've

> > read in the past) about the question of intensity. An "example" to

> use

> > your term, that has been stored from the past and is now coming to

> > fruition and affecting our desires in the present, must have an

> > intensity of feeling, a bhaava, and this bhaava must impact our

> > present reality. Don't you think?

> >

> > We are storing innumerable karmas every day in our unconscious

> > (chitta). Some are obviously more intense than others, either

> through

> > repetition or through the emotional impact, or perhaps other means

> (is

> > there a special category of intensity for spiritual

> > examples/experiences?). It stands to reason that there is a

> > relationship between the intensity of the stored example and the

> > intensity of its affect on our present, our desires and

> limitations.

> >

> > What this would mean is that when a karma with enough intensity of

> > bhaava ripens and begins to affect our behavior, our reaction to

> that

> > bhaava, if it is like that bhaava (not a reasoned response to

> mitigate

> > it), would continue to feed that experience - like a feedback loop

> > that never ends until we finally do something different and stop

> the

> > loop. Hmmm...

> >

> > Whether this idea explains all of the experience of karma, and I

> know

> > it doesn't, it does make clear why living with the feeling

> that "all

> > is God", and performing every action as worship or service to Her,

> > stops the cycle of karma. The karmas will come but the only thing

> that

> > is fed with bhaava, with intensity, is the idea of God. Eventually,

> > the only karmas that will ripen are God-karmas!

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> > , kandaaran@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 11/15/2006 11:17:11 P.M. Mountain Standard

> Time,

> > > chriskirner1956@ writes:

> > >

> > > The part our desires play in creating our karmas is apparent

> when we

> > > understand the relationship between our desires and our

> subsequent

> > > actions - what this sutra is about. What is less clear is how

> our

> > > prarabdha karmas impact our present desires. Is there a causal

> > > relationship? Do we desire what we desire because of our

> prarabdha

> > > karmas? The answer must be yes, at least to a degree, for our

> karmas

> > > are not merely what happens "to" us, but also who we are, or, at

> > > least, who we appear to be.

> > >

> > > Namaste Dear Family,

> > >

> > > This is my view of the relationship between prarabdha karmas and

> > desire. If

> > > in a lifetime you as an observer of your own acts see your

> action

> > and the

> > > actions of others involved in the experience as a unit, the

> action

> > of others

> > > becomes part of your experience. Then you bring this

> accumulated

> > knowledge

> > > into the present birth. In current experience the reminders of

> > past karmas come

> > > up, ( someone in a past life that presented a different way to

> > approach the

> > > problem through example ). .In the unitive experience the

> desire

> > may be

> > > emulation of the past example In our current lifetime based on

> > personal

> > > reflectiveness the same may occur.

> > >

> > > With Love

> > >

> > > Kanda

> > >

> > > Om Namah Sivaya

> > >

> >

>

November 18, 2006

Hi Debi,

Basically prakriiti is Nature as opposed to Divine Consciousness,

called parusha. It is Divine Mother embodied as creation. It is Shakti

in the Shakti/Shiva relationship at that particular place in the

creative process where creation is manifested.

Jai Maa!

Chris

, Debra McDaniel <student61754

wrote:

>

> Sorry to interfer with your conversation but that is very interesting.

> Can't wait to hear what you have to say about this Chris.

> Oh, & what is Prakrite? How does it translate.

> Debi

>

> "roy.papia" <roy.papia wrote:

> Hi Chris,

> I was just reading chapter 3, verse 27 of the Geeta and came across

> these lines. It adds another dimension to the discussions on Karma.

> I thought it would be of interest, and I apologize for the

> intrusion. It says:

> prakrite kriyamanani gunye karmani sarvasha

> ahamkarabimudatma kartahamiti manyate.

> Translated:

> All the karma or work is performed by prakriti and the three gunas

> (mahamaya's maya). Only the ignorant in their ego believe that they

> are the doer.

>

> So, what he means is that actually we or our Self do nothing. When

> things happen, we foolishly and egotistically lay claim to it and

> say 'I did it' and then it becomes ours. We have to pay for it which

> then becomes our karma. If you think of it in this way it is

> actually funny - a divine joke at our expense.

>

> Regards

> Papia

>

> , "Chris Kirner"

> <chriskirner1956@> wrote:

> >

> > Kanda,

> >

> > You said:

> >

> > "In the unitive experience the desire may be emulation of the past

> > example."

> >

> > This made me think (and I'm probably just "remembering" things I've

> > read in the past) about the question of intensity. An "example" to

> use

> > your term, that has been stored from the past and is now coming to

> > fruition and affecting our desires in the present, must have an

> > intensity of feeling, a bhaava, and this bhaava must impact our

> > present reality. Don't you think?

> >

> > We are storing innumerable karmas every day in our unconscious

> > (chitta). Some are obviously more intense than others, either

> through

> > repetition or through the emotional impact, or perhaps other means

> (is

> > there a special category of intensity for spiritual

> > examples/experiences?). It stands to reason that there is a

> > relationship between the intensity of the stored example and the

> > intensity of its affect on our present, our desires and

> limitations.

> >

> > What this would mean is that when a karma with enough intensity of

> > bhaava ripens and begins to affect our behavior, our reaction to

> that

> > bhaava, if it is like that bhaava (not a reasoned response to

> mitigate

> > it), would continue to feed that experience - like a feedback loop

> > that never ends until we finally do something different and stop

> the

> > loop. Hmmm...

> >

> > Whether this idea explains all of the experience of karma, and I

> know

> > it doesn't, it does make clear why living with the feeling

> that "all

> > is God", and performing every action as worship or service to Her,

> > stops the cycle of karma. The karmas will come but the only thing

> that

> > is fed with bhaava, with intensity, is the idea of God. Eventually,

> > the only karmas that will ripen are God-karmas!

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> > , kandaaran@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 11/15/2006 11:17:11 P.M. Mountain Standard

> Time,

> > > chriskirner1956@ writes:

> > >

> > > The part our desires play in creating our karmas is apparent

> when we

> > > understand the relationship between our desires and our

> subsequent

> > > actions - what this sutra is about. What is less clear is how

> our

> > > prarabdha karmas impact our present desires. Is there a causal

> > > relationship? Do we desire what we desire because of our

> prarabdha

> > > karmas? The answer must be yes, at least to a degree, for our

> karmas

> > > are not merely what happens "to" us, but also who we are, or, at

> > > least, who we appear to be.

> > >

> > > Namaste Dear Family,

> > >

> > > This is my view of the relationship between prarabdha karmas and

> > desire. If

> > > in a lifetime you as an observer of your own acts see your

> action

> > and the

> > > actions of others involved in the experience as a unit, the

> action

> > of others

> > > becomes part of your experience. Then you bring this

> accumulated

> > knowledge

> > > into the present birth. In current experience the reminders of

> > past karmas come

> > > up, ( someone in a past life that presented a different way to

> > approach the

> > > problem through example ). .In the unitive experience the

> desire

> > may be

> > > emulation of the past example In our current lifetime based on

> > personal

> > > reflectiveness the same may occur.

> > >

> > > With Love

> > >

> > > Kanda

> > >

> > > Om Namah Sivaya

> > >

> >

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo -

Calculate new house payment

>

November 18, 2006

> I think that no matter how great our tendency is to see impurity and

> ugliness outside, the truth is that the impurity and ugliness is ours

> alone.

>

Chris

Undeniably philosophically true,--- but with the addendum that as long

as we see suffering, it is our duty to try to remove it.

Respectfully,

Tanmaya

> , "ty_maa" dsjames@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chris,

> >

> > Three minutes and I'm gone for the day.

> >

> > For purpose of discussion one generally starts with the accepted

belief

> > systems. In this case, the question is about pure/impure desires,

and a

> > great amount of (possibly unexamined) belief or assumption is

imbedded

> > in such a subject.

> >

> > One might say, instead of God, "consciousness", and "impure"

> > consciousness is then lack of clear perception--or realization.

> >

> > "Is Kali my Mother really black? She is the Light that lights the

lotus

> > of my Heart", sings Ramprasad.

> >

> > Mother as consciousness needs to be "seen" clearly. What obscures

that

> > perception?

> >

> > She also always carries a Sword. There is some kind of necessary

> > operation implied in that hint-however it may be applied.

> >

> > The error is no doubt in the "eye of the beholder". The chickens

always

> > come home to (the subjective) roost.

> >

> > Lastly, love can only be found in the Present moment, devoid of the

> > unreal future and the unreal past, ie. devoid of thought.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> >

> > T.

> >

> > , "Chris Kirner"

<chriskirner1956@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Tanmaya,

> > >

> > > This idea of purity/impurity is interesting...

> > >

> > > You said,

> > >

> > > From the highest, most spiritually idealistic, point of view, only

God

> > > > is pure, while the entire relative universe consists of God

being

> > > > "stepped down" by means of Maya, the gunas, avidya (ignorance),

> > > > successively lower frequency or vibration, and so forth. So

this

> > > > universe is, in fact, God, made more or less "impure" by

whatever

> > means.

> > >

> > > This, the idea that the world has varying degrees of

impurity/purity

> > > is a common one, and it tends to be the way I think about it too.

But

> > > Im not sure it is the right idea...

> > >

> > > It is a fundamental tenent of tantra, as opposed to Vedanta, that

the

> > > universe is real because it is God, and you can not make the

really

> > > real (God), unreal. In other words, if the universe is Divine

Mother

> > > it cannot simply be an illusion. It seems to me that the same idea

> > > should apply to the pure verses the impure. If the universe is

Divine

> > > Mother, then it is all pure, for She is Purity itself.

> > >

> > > This would, I think, place all the onus for purity/impurity back

on

> > > us, on our actions (karmas) and their just desserts, avidya,

> > > attachment, etc.

> > >

> > > Seeing the world "as equal to God" is difficult in the midst of

the

> > > violence and torment of war, but easy in the temple. Yet it is all

> > Her.

> > >

> > > May I attain the light to truly understand...

> > >

> > > Jai Maa!

> > > Chris

> > >

> > > , "ty_maa" dsjames@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Ramya,

> > > >

> > > > At the risk of drying everyone out with a little philosophy from

> > > > Patanjali's Rajayoga sutras...

> > > >

> > > > There are two possible movements of human attention,

> > Pravritti-"circling

> > > > outward" into ever greater expansion and expression of relative

> > > > evolution-to which there is no limit of which our present minds

can

> > > > conceive, and Nivritti-"circling inward" toward the Source and

> > Center of

> > > > the whole evolutionary adventure.

> > > >

> > > > From the highest, most spiritually idealistic, point of view,

only

> > God

> > > > is pure, while the entire relative universe consists of God

being

> > > > "stepped down" by means of Maya, the gunas, avidya (ignorance),

> > > > successively lower frequency or vibration, and so forth. So

this

> > > > universe is, in fact, God, made more or less "impure" by

whatever

> > means.

> > > > Therefore, desire for anything in the universe, other than God,

> > could be

> > > > considered an impure desire according to this reasoning.

> > > >

> > > > Conversely, anything that one could "raise" to a state of

perfect

> > purity

> > > > (by whatever means) would be

> > > > found to be Divine. For instance, Sri Ramakrishna was fond of

> > saying

> > > > that "pure mind is pure Brahman, ie. God.

> > > >

> > > > A question arises as to whether just anyone is capable of

switching

> > > > focus from pravritti to nivritti simply because they wish to do

so.

> > The

> > > > answer to this is most often given in terms of the principle of

> > karma.

> > > > If one has outstanding karma, ie. prarabdha karma, and wishes to

> > turn

> > > > one's attention wholly to God, with no thought of the world

> > > > (uncompromising nivritti) it might not turn out so well.

> > > >

> > > > The two kinds of karma are perfectly illustrated by scenarios 1

and

> > 2.

> > > > The "arrow" has left the bow in the case of the young mother,

and

> > > > neither God nor man would therefore forgive her if she abandoned

her

> > > > child.

> > > >

> > > > In scenario 2, the student still has the option to switch goals

and

> > > > become, for instance, an all-renouncing sannysin, devoting his

full

> > > > attention to nivritti, the pursuit of God and God Alone. That

would

> > be

> > > > possible because his present karma was still vartmana karma-the

> > arrow

> > > > still in the bow, and he could release the tension, or draw a

bead

> > on

> > > > some other target which he might choose.

> > > >

> > > > The real pinch usually comes when a person wants God intensly,

yet

> > finds

> > > > that he or she still has links of prarabdha karma binding her or

> > himself

> > > > to the world. Yet the very fact that one desires God to such a

> > degree is

> > > > the best indicator that one's karma is becoming more transparent

by

> > the

> > > > day.

> > > >

> > > > In the light of all the above, my answer to your first question

> > would

> > > > be: an impure desire is desire for God in a form that one does

not

> > > > recognize as God. A pure desire is desire for God in a form

which

> > one

> > > > unquestionable knows to be God.

> > > >

> > > > So, what is happening in the case of one whose "karma is

becoming

> > more

> > > > transparent by the day"? Maybe nothing more than that one's

belief

> > in

> > > > all the bugaboos of maya, karma, ignorance, impurity, etc. is

> > wearing

> > > > thin. They are, after all, only concepts-"thoughts" if you

> > will-which

> > > > exist only in the twin arenas of the unreal "future" and the

unreal

> > > > "past".

> > > >

> > > > Whether at work or play or puja, the Present Moment is Pure,

Silent,

> > > > Luminous, Divine, and devoid of difficulties..

> > > >

> > > > A tiger above and a tiger below, the dangling man tastes the

> > strawberry:

> > > > "how sweet it is"...

> > > >

> > > > the pleasants of Her Presence.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully,

> > > >

> > > > Tanmaya

> > > >

> > > > , Ramya Srinivasan

<n_ramya108@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Namaste Everybody,

> > > > >

> > > > > We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> > > > > weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> > > > > from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> > > > > website.

> > > > >

> > > > > In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> > > > > impure desire?

> > > > >

> > > > > How would you classify these desires?

> > > > >

> > > > > Scenario # 1

> > > > >

> > > > > A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> > > > > hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> > > > > sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> > > > > health of her child.

> > > > >

> > > > > Scenario # 2

> > > > >

> > > > > Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> > > > > for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> > > > > childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> > > > > all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> > > > > that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> > > > > a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> > > > > all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

> > > > >

> > > > > Jai Maa!

> > > > >

> > > > > ramya

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

______________________\

\

> > \

> > > > ____________

> > > > > Sponsored Link

> > > > >

> > > > > Online degrees - find the right program to advance your

career.

> > > > > Www.nextag.com

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

November 19, 2006

Hi Mimi

Very well said, your words illuminates. I am Hindu and I have to tell you I

can't wait to get to the last stage of this path, I am ready and willing to

forsake all desires for Moksha....But I know that I have a duty here, and

when the time is right, the path will light up for my last walk....

Thank you for your words of wisdom

sandy

"OM NAMAH SHIVAYA"

>mimi spirit <mimi_female_spirit >

>

>Re: [www.ShreeMaa.org] Kashyapa sutra #2: Question about desires

>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:16:06 -0800 (PST)

>

>Chris,

> Here I would like to point out the Hindus believed in 4 stages of life.

>However gives some kind of direction to my thought process:

>

> Hinduism recognized four main stages of life. Like the goals of life,

>these can be divided into three plus one, with the three deriving from the

>"life is good" strand of Hinduism, and the one deriving from the "life is

>bad" strand. The first three are the student, the householder, and the

>retired person, while the fourth is the ascetic.

>

> The last stage is a rejection of life and all that it means in exchange

>for a search to attain moksha or liberation, that is, release from the

>cycle of samsara. Of course a person may enter into this stage of life at

>any time.For instance Vivekananda was evolved to that stage from the very

>beginning. The rejection of life, especially as defined by the

>life-affirming strand of Hinduism, is complete. It requires rejection of

>the household duties and responsibilities of all stages of life. It also

>requires the rejection of the religious beliefs. Indeed, the ceremony

>making one a sannyasin included the burning of copies of the Vedas, a

>symbolic rejection even of one's role in maintaining the cosmos.

>

> I don't intend to make it sound simple. But its a lifestyle that had

>been followed through centuries. The rejection came only after one had

>fulfilled his role, satisfied his desires and is ready to transcend all.

>The values are taught early in life as a student. Armed with that knowledge

>it was easier to make choices as a youth. And after one completes all

>duties towards family, friends, society and community, one was ready for

>spiritual enlightenment. In other words there is a time for everything. Of

>course there are exceptions to that rule. Some are born much more evolved

>than others, while others find themselves going through the stages before

>they reach there.

> Love

> Mimi

>

>Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote:

> Mimi,

>

>I think the essence of what we are saying is, "Do the best that you

>can with the Light God has given you."

>

>Visualizing a goal, trying not to be attached to circumstances, and

>learning to discriminate between pure and impure desires, is the method.

>

>Jai Maa!

>Chris

>

>, mimi spirit

><mimi_female_spirit wrote:

> >

> > Thank you Karen and Debra. I do believe that the soul evolves and

>learns and it takes us many lives before we find the answers. And I

>also believe that Knowledge is transferred from one soul to another.

>There comes a point in life when we ask questions. When we ask the

>right questions the teacher arrives. Perhaps thats when we meet our

>Guru - our friend, philosopher and guide. And with the help of our

>Guru we find the answers and the complexities of life become a simple

>stream of consciousness. And we prepare ourselves for the absolute.

> > Chris talks about Karma. It reminds me of the Bhagwad Gita when

>Arjuna refuses to go to battle as he does not want to kill his

>relatives and the answer Shri Krsna gives him. He makes Arjun realize

>that he is just an instrument in the hand of the Lord. Can we deny and

>evade our destiny? On the other hand what about free will? Do we have

>no choice?

> > I believe God and Guru both test us in time. Help us to realize

>ourselves and every situation makes us aware of who we are, why are we

>here and where we want to go. Eventually all of us want to return to

>God. There comes a point in time when we finally free ourselves from

>Maya or illusions and desires and we want to merge with God. But till

>then we are here to live out our destiny, meet the challenges of life

>and overcome the obstacles, participate in the creation and

>destruction, accept the duality of life - in other words walk down the

>road that will finally take us to our true destination.

> > Being raised in a Hindu family from Bengal, my mother taught me

>only one prayer...Ma I offer you all my good karma and I offer you all

>my bad karma. Free me from both good and bad. I am nothing but an

>instrument in your hand. Play me.

> > Love

> > Mimi

> >

> > Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote:

> > Have to agree with you Karen.

> > Mimi has a point.

> > I added my thoughts but had to relate to self to come to any

>conclusion.

> > Agree with you Mimi, It's all about intentions & how can we're

>back to judging again.

> > Thanks for posting, very good.

> > Debi

> >

> > forall10q <forall10q wrote:

> > Thanks, Mimi, for sharing your lovely thoughts. I found your

>ideas

> > very soothing to the spirit, and I was happy to read them. You have

> > a kind and gentle way of presenting thoughts. Makes me sigh, and

> > say "ahhhh, how sweet." Love and blesssings, Karen

> >

> > , mimi spirit

> > <mimi_female_spirit@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I wouldn't go into purity and impurity. I think what we are

> > talking about here is intention. There can be no comments on a

> > situation like a mother wanting her child to be cured or a child's

> > intention to become a doctor to serve his village. Its just a

> > perspective - and every perspective is individual and we can only

> > remain non-judgmental. Our endeavor is to go beyond desire. Pure or

> > impure is not the point. At the same time we accept that desire

> > keeps this world evolving. To transcend beyond this world means

> > giving up all desires. When are we ready for that? When we have

> > fulfilled our roles on this plane and we are ready to reach out for

> > a different realm. Why would be here in the first place if we had

> > fulfilled all our desires? The soul travels and learns from

> > experience and it makes sense when we say that is not only possible

> > in one life. The whole point of this journey is to learn, know and

> > evolve. How do we judge situations or intentions? We can only hope

> > the prayers

> > > are heard and the person realizes his or her goals and comes to a

> > point when he or she can go beyond those desires. Time reveals it

> > all. And when the time comes the person is ready to go beyond

> > situations, intentions, purity and impurity.

> > > Thats my humble understanding..

> > > Love

> > > Mimi

> > >

> > > Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108@> wrote:

> > > Namaste Everybody,

> > >

> > > We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> > > weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> > > from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> > > website.

> > >

> > > In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> > > impure desire?

> > >

> > > How would you classify these desires?

> > >

> > > Scenario # 1

> > >

> > > A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> > > hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> > > sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> > > health of her child.

> > >

> > > Scenario # 2

> > >

> > > Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> > > for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> > > childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> > > all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> > > that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> > > a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

> > >

> > > Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> > > all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

> > >

> > > Jai Maa!

> > >

> > > ramya

> > >

> > > ________

> > > Sponsored Link

> > >

> > > Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> > > Www.nextag.com

> > >

> > > Sponsored Link

> > >

> > > Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -

> > Calculate new house payment

> > >

> >

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

>Intro-*Terms

> >

> > Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful

>email and get things done faster.

> >

>

>Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and

>get things done faster.

_______________

Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered

by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001

November 19, 2006

Thank you Chris,

Thanks also for the info on Shiva puja. Working with it now. Very helpful.

Also just got another bulk mail but this one is labled swamiji @ chandi.com with an attachment. I'm sure it's not from him in bulk because he knows how these virius' work through attachments and he would just write us through our reg. mail so I shld just delete it correct?

Debi

Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote:

Hi Debi,

Basically prakriiti is Nature as opposed to Divine Consciousness,

called parusha. It is Divine Mother embodied as creation. It is Shakti

in the Shakti/Shiva relationship at that particular place in the

creative process where creation is manifested.

Jai Maa!

Chris

, Debra McDaniel <student61754

wrote:

>

> Sorry to interfer with your conversation but that is very interesting.

> Can't wait to hear what you have to say about this Chris.

> Oh, & what is Prakrite? How does it translate.

> Debi

>

> "roy.papia" <roy.papia wrote:

> Hi Chris,

> I was just reading chapter 3, verse 27 of the Geeta and came across

> these lines. It adds another dimension to the discussions on Karma.

> I thought it would be of interest, and I apologize for the

> intrusion. It says:

> prakrite kriyamanani gunye karmani sarvasha

> ahamkarabimudatma kartahamiti manyate.

> Translated:

> All the karma or work is performed by prakriti and the three gunas

> (mahamaya's maya). Only the ignorant in their ego believe that they

> are the doer.

>

> So, what he means is that actually we or our Self do nothing. When

> things happen, we foolishly and egotistically lay claim to it and

> say 'I did it' and then it becomes ours. We have to pay for it which

> then becomes our karma. If you think of it in this way it is

> actually funny - a divine joke at our expense.

>

> Regards

> Papia

>

> , "Chris Kirner"

> <chriskirner1956@> wrote:

> >

> > Kanda,

> >

> > You said:

> >

> > "In the unitive experience the desire may be emulation of the past

> > example."

> >

> > This made me think (and I'm probably just "remembering" things I've

> > read in the past) about the question of intensity. An "example" to

> use

> > your term, that has been stored from the past and is now coming to

> > fruition and affecting our desires in the present, must have an

> > intensity of feeling, a bhaava, and this bhaava must impact our

> > present reality. Don't you think?

> >

> > We are storing innumerable karmas every day in our unconscious

> > (chitta). Some are obviously more intense than others, either

> through

> > repetition or through the emotional impact, or perhaps other means

> (is

> > there a special category of intensity for spiritual

> > examples/experiences?). It stands to reason that there is a

> > relationship between the intensity of the stored example and the

> > intensity of its affect on our present, our desires and

> limitations.

> >

> > What this would mean is that when a karma with enough intensity of

> > bhaava ripens and begins to affect our behavior, our reaction to

> that

> > bhaava, if it is like that bhaava (not a reasoned response to

> mitigate

> > it), would continue to feed that experience - like a feedback loop

> > that never ends until we finally do something different and stop

> the

> > loop. Hmmm...

> >

> > Whether this idea explains all of the experience of karma, and I

> know

> > it doesn't, it does make clear why living with the feeling

> that "all

> > is God", and performing every action as worship or service to Her,

> > stops the cycle of karma. The karmas will come but the only thing

> that

> > is fed with bhaava, with intensity, is the idea of God. Eventually,

> > the only karmas that will ripen are God-karmas!

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> > , kandaaran@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 11/15/2006 11:17:11 P.M. Mountain Standard

> Time,

> > > chriskirner1956@ writes:

> > >

> > > The part our desires play in creating our karmas is apparent

> when we

> > > understand the relationship between our desires and our

> subsequent

> > > actions - what this sutra is about. What is less clear is how

> our

> > > prarabdha karmas impact our present desires. Is there a causal

> > > relationship? Do we desire what we desire because of our

> prarabdha

> > > karmas? The answer must be yes, at least to a degree, for our

> karmas

> > > are not merely what happens "to" us, but also who we are, or, at

> > > least, who we appear to be.

> > >

> > > Namaste Dear Family,

> > >

> > > This is my view of the relationship between prarabdha karmas and

> > desire. If

> > > in a lifetime you as an observer of your own acts see your

> action

> > and the

> > > actions of others involved in the experience as a unit, the

> action

> > of others

> > > becomes part of your experience. Then you bring this

> accumulated

> > knowledge

> > > into the present birth. In current experience the reminders of

> > past karmas come

> > > up, ( someone in a past life that presented a different way to

> > approach the

> > > problem through example ). .In the unitive experience the

> desire

> > may be

> > > emulation of the past example In our current lifetime based on

> > personal

> > > reflectiveness the same may occur.

> > >

> > > With Love

> > >

> > > Kanda

> > >

> > > Om Namah Sivaya

> > >

> >

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo -

Calculate new house payment

>

Sponsored Link

$420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/month - Think You Pay Too Much For Your Mortgage? Find Out!

November 19, 2006

Thank you Sandy. And your most welcome Sandy. Its true we cannot escape our duties behind the curtain of spirituality. It gets us nowhere. Niether do we reach out to God nor do we fulfill our duties. However, following the path of spirituality teaches us the most important lesson in life: To remain untouched by conditions. Life is after all a preperation for more to come. Wish you well and pray that you succeed in all your endeavors.

OM NAMAH SHIVAYA

Mimi

SANDY KRIZ <skriz63 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: