Kashyapa sutra #2: Question about desires

[Guest guest]

Namaste Everybody,

 

We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

website.

 

In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

impure desire?

 

How would you classify these desires?

 

Scenario # 1

 

A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

health of her child.

 

Scenario # 2

 

Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

that it will help his family and village if he becomes

a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

 

Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

 

Jai Maa!

 

ramya

 

 

 

 

Sponsored Link

 

Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

Www.nextag.com

[Guest guest]

I wouldn't go into purity and impurity. I think what we are talking about here is intention. There can be no comments on a situation like a mother wanting her child to be cured or a child's intention to become a doctor to serve his village. Its just a perspective - and every perspective is individual and we can only remain non-judgmental. Our endeavor is to go beyond desire. Pure or impure is not the point. At the same time we accept that desire keeps this world evolving. To transcend beyond this world means giving up all desires. When are we ready for that? When we have fulfilled our roles on this plane and we are ready to reach out for a different realm. Why would be here in the first place if we had fulfilled all our desires? The soul travels and learns from experience and it makes sense when we say that is not only possible in one life. The whole point of this journey is to learn, know and evolve. How do we judge situations or intentions? We can only hope the prayers

are heard and the person realizes his or her goals and comes to a point when he or she can go beyond those desires. Time reveals it all. And when the time comes the person is ready to go beyond situations, intentions, purity and impurity.

Thats my humble understanding..

Love

Mimi

 

Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108 > wrote:

Namaste Everybody,

 

We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

website.

 

In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

impure desire?

 

How would you classify these desires?

 

Scenario # 1

 

A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

health of her child.

 

Scenario # 2

 

Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

that it will help his family and village if he becomes

a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

 

Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

 

Jai Maa!

 

ramya

 

________

Sponsored Link

 

Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

Www.nextag.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sponsored Link

 

Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo - Calculate new house payment

[Guest guest]

Namaste!

 

How interesting that you should put up these scenarios, Ramya, as I

was just now reading a passage in Ramakrishna's "Nectar of Eternal

Bliss" about this exact idea. And really, it was not cheating because

I ask Him for guidance and open a random page.....

 

and here it is (p.186)

 

Ramakrishna is saying that the objective of human life is realizing

God. "Karma is one part, only the first part. karma cannot be the

objective. However Karma without atachment and desireis the means of

spiritual attainment."

Shambu Mallick asks Thakur for a blessing so his wealth can help the

poor and needy. Thakur says that if that can be done without

selfishness, then it is great, but it is very difficult to achieve.

Ramakrishna reiterates, "The objective of human life is realizing

God.It is not to build hospitals and dispensaries. If God appeared

before you and said, 'Ask a boon of Me,' what will you say to Him?

Will you say, 'Oh Lord, please give me hospitals and dispensaries to

run'? Won't you say instead, 'Oh God, give me pure devotion at Your

lotus feet'?"

 

The only pure desire is pure devotion,; every thing else carries a

price tag.

 

Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai Maa

 

 

, Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108

wrote:

>

> Namaste Everybody,

>

> We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> website.

>

> In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> impure desire?

>

> How would you classify these desires?

>

> Scenario # 1

>

> A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> health of her child.

>

> Scenario # 2

>

> Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

>

> Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

>

> Jai Maa!

>

> ramya

>

>

>

>

 

> Sponsored Link

>

> Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> Www.nextag.com

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Mimi, for sharing your lovely thoughts. I found your ideas

very soothing to the spirit, and I was happy to read them. You have

a kind and gentle way of presenting thoughts. Makes me sigh, and

say "ahhhh, how sweet." Love and blesssings, Karen

 

, mimi spirit

<mimi_female_spirit wrote:

>

> I wouldn't go into purity and impurity. I think what we are

talking about here is intention. There can be no comments on a

situation like a mother wanting her child to be cured or a child's

intention to become a doctor to serve his village. Its just a

perspective - and every perspective is individual and we can only

remain non-judgmental. Our endeavor is to go beyond desire. Pure or

impure is not the point. At the same time we accept that desire

keeps this world evolving. To transcend beyond this world means

giving up all desires. When are we ready for that? When we have

fulfilled our roles on this plane and we are ready to reach out for

a different realm. Why would be here in the first place if we had

fulfilled all our desires? The soul travels and learns from

experience and it makes sense when we say that is not only possible

in one life. The whole point of this journey is to learn, know and

evolve. How do we judge situations or intentions? We can only hope

the prayers

> are heard and the person realizes his or her goals and comes to a

point when he or she can go beyond those desires. Time reveals it

all. And when the time comes the person is ready to go beyond

situations, intentions, purity and impurity.

> Thats my humble understanding..

> Love

> Mimi

>

> Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108 wrote:

> Namaste Everybody,

>

> We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> website.

>

> In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> impure desire?

>

> How would you classify these desires?

>

> Scenario # 1

>

> A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> health of her child.

>

> Scenario # 2

>

> Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

>

> Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

>

> Jai Maa!

>

> ramya

>

> ________

> Sponsored Link

>

> Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> Www.nextag.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -

Calculate new house payment

>

[Guest guest]

This is a very deep subject. There is so much that can be said, and

from so many different angles...

 

The first sutra said that birth results from unfinished karma. The

second sutra said that an individual's life is bound by desire. There

is a relationship here between one's karma and one's desires. I don't

recall Swamiji saying much about the specifics of the relationship

between the two, but he does talk about the process of rebirth in

Before Becoming This, about how the search for a suitable body is

impelled by the desire to fulfill karma. This search can be

frustratingly painful.

 

The part our desires play in creating our karmas is apparent when we

understand the relationship between our desires and our subsequent

actions - what this sutra is about. What is less clear is how our

prarabdha karmas impact our present desires. Is there a causal

relationship? Do we desire what we desire because of our prarabdha

karmas? The answer must be yes, at least to a degree, for our karmas

are not merely what happens "to" us, but also who we are, or, at

least, who we appear to be. This must also be a part of what Swamiji

refers to when he talks about the dharma of a thief, whose dharma it

is to become the best thief, or exhorting us not to judge another even

if their life appears to lack balance, because of dharma.

 

We are born into this life in different positions in society, with

different abilities, different opportunities - and different desires.

Not all can be doctors, or fishermen. Not everyone is able to find

devotion for God. Certainly, not everyone can devote themselves,

completely immerse their lives, in Divinity. So, for some dharma is

being a good thief, and for others the highest dharma is available,

the ability to realize God. It is all Her...

 

As Swamiji has explained, the purest desires are those which impell

one toward divinity, toward communion or unity - sattwic desires.

These are desires which are unselfish. But as we have seen, it is not

an all or nothing, either/or situation - there are degrees and

gradations of purity (at least as it relates to individual dharma).

 

It is helpful to look at these ideas within a context like the one

Ramya has provided. In both of these cases there is an element of

unselfishness, of purity, but there is room too for selfish desire.

The mother may be reacting in part to her attachment to her child. The

student may be impelled by a desire to be respected, or even just to

exercize his abilities to the highest degree. Not that either of these

is "bad", they are just not "pure".

 

Ultimately, nothing is pure but God. A life immersed in God, a life

characterized by udasa, a servant of circumstance (circumstance, by

the way, is another way to describe vartmaana [present] karma), is a

pure life, and the desires of that life, being expressions of

divinity, are pure desires. Anything else is a mix, because that is

what we are (or appear to be).

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

, Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108

wrote:

>

> Namaste Everybody,

>

> We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> website.

>

> In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> impure desire?

>

> How would you classify these desires?

>

> Scenario # 1

>

> A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> health of her child.

>

> Scenario # 2

>

> Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

>

> Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

>

> Jai Maa!

>

> ramya

>

>

>

>

 

> Sponsored Link

>

> Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> Www.nextag.com

>

[Guest guest]

Scenerio #1

My first guess is it's pure desire because it's for another not self.

But we fear the lose of a child because WE don't want to lose them so wld tht part be selfish. I'm sure she doesn't want child in pain so that's unselfish.

Yet if it is their time are we interfering once again because we don't want to lose them?

I lost a daughter when she was 14. If I rember correctly I just wanted her not to be in pain. I had no fear of death so I didn't fear for her death. I knew there was no death so what was to fear. I knew everything happened for a reason & trusted God with all my heart, even with my child so I prayed for His will and the strength to endure.

So from my perspective I say probly pure.

Scenerio 2

His school is a desire to help others That part is pure. To do service for others is pure. If that's his only reason I say pure. There is money, status, & the desire to fix things? If that's involved it would be different. MMMMMM..... Lets see if I can relate to it in my life and better deside. Well! In my case it would be unpure. I desire to

learn Homeopathic and Herbal medicine to take care of myself but I do love helping others when they're out of sorts and need help. But then the question wld come of why do I want to help them. To be excepted, liked, thought well of & so on.

Wow there's a lot that factors into our actions.

I read the lesson and it was GREAT & I plan to do the exercise too.

Got a lot of good info from it. Thanks for the discussion.

Debi

 

mimi spirit <mimi_female_spirit > wrote:

I wouldn't go into purity and impurity. I think what we are talking about here is intention. There can be no comments on a situation like a mother wanting her child to be cured or a child's intention to become a doctor to serve his village. Its just a perspective - and every perspective is individual and we can only remain non-judgmental. Our endeavor is to go beyond desire. Pure or impure is not the point. At the same time we accept that desire keeps this world evolving. To transcend beyond this world means giving up all desires. When are we ready for that? When we have fulfilled our roles on this plane and we are ready to reach out for a different realm. Why would be here in the first place if we had fulfilled all our desires? The soul travels and learns from experience and it makes sense when we say that is not only possible in one life. The whole point of this journey is to learn, know and evolve. How do we judge situations or intentions? We can only hope

the prayers are heard and the person realizes his or her goals and comes to a point when he or she can go beyond those desires. Time reveals it all. And when the time comes the person is ready to go beyond situations, intentions, purity and impurity.

Thats my humble understanding..

Love

Mimi

 

Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108 > wrote:

Namaste Everybody,

 

We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

website.

 

In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

impure desire?

 

How would you classify these desires?

 

Scenario # 1

 

A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

health of her child.

 

Scenario # 2

 

Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

that it will help his family and village if he becomes

a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

 

Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

 

Jai Maa!

 

ramya

 

________

Sponsored Link

 

Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

Www.nextag.com

 

 

 

 

 

Sponsored Link

 

Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo - Calculate new house payment

 

 

 

 

Sponsored Link

 

Degrees for working adults in as fast as 1 year. Bachelors, Masters, Associates. Top schools

[Guest guest]

Have to agree with you Karen.

Mimi has a point.

I added my thoughts but had to relate to self to come to any conclusion.

Agree with you Mimi, It's all about intentions & how can we're back to judging again.

Thanks for posting, very good.

Debi

 

forall10q <forall10q > wrote:

Thanks, Mimi, for sharing your lovely thoughts. I found your ideas

very soothing to the spirit, and I was happy to read them. You have

a kind and gentle way of presenting thoughts. Makes me sigh, and

say "ahhhh, how sweet." Love and blesssings, Karen

 

, mimi spirit

<mimi_female_spirit wrote:

>

> I wouldn't go into purity and impurity. I think what we are

talking about here is intention. There can be no comments on a

situation like a mother wanting her child to be cured or a child's

intention to become a doctor to serve his village. Its just a

perspective - and every perspective is individual and we can only

remain non-judgmental. Our endeavor is to go beyond desire. Pure or

impure is not the point. At the same time we accept that desire

keeps this world evolving. To transcend beyond this world means

giving up all desires. When are we ready for that? When we have

fulfilled our roles on this plane and we are ready to reach out for

a different realm. Why would be here in the first place if we had

fulfilled all our desires? The soul travels and learns from

experience and it makes sense when we say that is not only possible

in one life. The whole point of this journey is to learn, know and

evolve. How do we judge situations or intentions? We can only hope

the prayers

> are heard and the person realizes his or her goals and comes to a

point when he or she can go beyond those desires. Time reveals it

all. And when the time comes the person is ready to go beyond

situations, intentions, purity and impurity.

> Thats my humble understanding..

> Love

> Mimi

>

> Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108 wrote:

> Namaste Everybody,

>

> We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> website.

>

> In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> impure desire?

>

> How would you classify these desires?

>

> Scenario # 1

>

> A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> health of her child.

>

> Scenario # 2

>

> Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

>

> Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

>

> Jai Maa!

>

> ramya

>

> ________

> Sponsored Link

>

> Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> Www.nextag.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -

Calculate new house payment

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sponsored Link

 

Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro-*Terms

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramya,

 

At the risk of drying everyone out with a little philosophy from

Patanjali's Rajayoga sutras...

 

There are two possible movements of human attention, Pravritti-"circling

outward" into ever greater expansion and expression of relative

evolution-to which there is no limit of which our present minds can

conceive, and Nivritti-"circling inward" toward the Source and Center of

the whole evolutionary adventure.

 

>From the highest, most spiritually idealistic, point of view, only God

is pure, while the entire relative universe consists of God being

"stepped down" by means of Maya, the gunas, avidya (ignorance),

successively lower frequency or vibration, and so forth. So this

universe is, in fact, God, made more or less "impure" by whatever means.

Therefore, desire for anything in the universe, other than God, could be

considered an impure desire according to this reasoning.

 

Conversely, anything that one could "raise" to a state of perfect purity

(by whatever means) would be

found to be Divine. For instance, Sri Ramakrishna was fond of saying

that "pure mind is pure Brahman, ie. God.

 

A question arises as to whether just anyone is capable of switching

focus from pravritti to nivritti simply because they wish to do so. The

answer to this is most often given in terms of the principle of karma.

If one has outstanding karma, ie. prarabdha karma, and wishes to turn

one's attention wholly to God, with no thought of the world

(uncompromising nivritti) it might not turn out so well.

 

The two kinds of karma are perfectly illustrated by scenarios 1 and 2.

The "arrow" has left the bow in the case of the young mother, and

neither God nor man would therefore forgive her if she abandoned her

child.

 

In scenario 2, the student still has the option to switch goals and

become, for instance, an all-renouncing sannysin, devoting his full

attention to nivritti, the pursuit of God and God Alone. That would be

possible because his present karma was still vartmana karma-the arrow

still in the bow, and he could release the tension, or draw a bead on

some other target which he might choose.

 

The real pinch usually comes when a person wants God intensly, yet finds

that he or she still has links of prarabdha karma binding her or himself

to the world. Yet the very fact that one desires God to such a degree is

the best indicator that one's karma is becoming more transparent by the

day.

 

In the light of all the above, my answer to your first question would

be: an impure desire is desire for God in a form that one does not

recognize as God. A pure desire is desire for God in a form which one

unquestionable knows to be God.

 

So, what is happening in the case of one whose "karma is becoming more

transparent by the day"? Maybe nothing more than that one's belief in

all the bugaboos of maya, karma, ignorance, impurity, etc. is wearing

thin. They are, after all, only concepts-"thoughts" if you will-which

exist only in the twin arenas of the unreal "future" and the unreal

"past".

 

Whether at work or play or puja, the Present Moment is Pure, Silent,

Luminous, Divine, and devoid of difficulties..

 

A tiger above and a tiger below, the dangling man tastes the strawberry:

"how sweet it is"...

 

the pleasants of Her Presence.

 

 

Respectfully,

 

Tanmaya

 

 

 

 

, Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108

wrote:

 

> Namaste Everybody,

>

> We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> website.

>

> In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> impure desire?

>

> How would you classify these desires?

>

> Scenario # 1

>

> A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> health of her child.

>

> Scenario # 2

>

> Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

>

> Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

>

> Jai Maa!

>

> ramya

>

>

>

>

______________________\

____________

> Sponsored Link

>

> Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> Www.nextag.com

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Karen and Debra. I do believe that the soul evolves and learns and it takes us many lives before we find the answers. And I also believe that Knowledge is transferred from one soul to another. There comes a point in life when we ask questions. When we ask the right questions the teacher arrives. Perhaps thats when we meet our Guru - our friend, philosopher and guide. And with the help of our Guru we find the answers and the complexities of life become a simple stream of consciousness. And we prepare ourselves for the absolute.

Chris talks about Karma. It reminds me of the Bhagwad Gita when Arjuna refuses to go to battle as he does not want to kill his relatives and the answer Shri Krsna gives him. He makes Arjun realize that he is just an instrument in the hand of the Lord. Can we deny and evade our destiny? On the other hand what about free will? Do we have no choice?

I believe God and Guru both test us in time. Help us to realize ourselves and every situation makes us aware of who we are, why are we here and where we want to go. Eventually all of us want to return to God. There comes a point in time when we finally free ourselves from Maya or illusions and desires and we want to merge with God. But till then we are here to live out our destiny, meet the challenges of life and overcome the obstacles, participate in the creation and destruction, accept the duality of life - in other words walk down the road that will finally take us to our true destination.

Being raised in a Hindu family from Bengal, my mother taught me only one prayer...Ma I offer you all my good karma and I offer you all my bad karma. Free me from both good and bad. I am nothing but an instrument in your hand. Play me.

Love

Mimi

Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote:

Have to agree with you Karen.

Mimi has a point.

I added my thoughts but had to relate to self to come to any conclusion.

Agree with you Mimi, It's all about intentions & how can we're back to judging again.

Thanks for posting, very good.

Debi

 

forall10q <forall10q > wrote:

Thanks, Mimi, for sharing your lovely thoughts. I found your ideas

very soothing to the spirit, and I was happy to read them. You have

a kind and gentle way of presenting thoughts. Makes me sigh, and

say "ahhhh, how sweet." Love and blesssings, Karen

 

, mimi spirit

<mimi_female_spirit wrote:

>

> I wouldn't go into purity and impurity. I think what we are

talking about here is intention. There can be no comments on a

situation like a mother wanting her child to be cured or a child's

intention to become a doctor to serve his village. Its just a

perspective - and every perspective is individual and we can only

remain non-judgmental. Our endeavor is to go beyond desire. Pure or

impure is not the point. At the same time we accept that desire

keeps this world evolving. To transcend beyond this world means

giving up all desires. When are we ready for that? When we have

fulfilled our roles on this plane and we are ready to reach out for

a different realm. Why would be here in the first place if we had

fulfilled all our desires? The soul travels and learns from

experience and it makes sense when we say that is not only possible

in one life. The whole point of this journey is to learn, know and

evolve. How do we judge situations or intentions? We can only hope

the prayers

> are heard and the person realizes his or her goals and comes to a

point when he or she can go beyond those desires. Time reveals it

all. And when the time comes the person is ready to go beyond

situations, intentions, purity and impurity.

> Thats my humble understanding..

> Love

> Mimi

>

> Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108 wrote:

> Namaste Everybody,

>

> We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> website.

>

> In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> impure desire?

>

> How would you classify these desires?

>

> Scenario # 1

>

> A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> health of her child.

>

> Scenario # 2

>

> Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

>

> Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

>

> Jai Maa!

>

> ramya

>

> ________

> Sponsored Link

>

> Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> Www.nextag.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -

Calculate new house payment

>

 

 

 

 

 

Sponsored Link

 

Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro-*Terms

 

 

 

 

Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

Chris,

Thank you so much for your words.

Now I know why everyone raves about you so.

Thanks! This says it all & still leaves the door open for everything else!

Debi

 

Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote:

This is a very deep subject. There is so much that can be said, and

from so many different angles...

 

The first sutra said that birth results from unfinished karma. The

second sutra said that an individual's life is bound by desire. There

is a relationship here between one's karma and one's desires. I don't

recall Swamiji saying much about the specifics of the relationship

between the two, but he does talk about the process of rebirth in

Before Becoming This, about how the search for a suitable body is

impelled by the desire to fulfill karma. This search can be

frustratingly painful.

 

The part our desires play in creating our karmas is apparent when we

understand the relationship between our desires and our subsequent

actions - what this sutra is about. What is less clear is how our

prarabdha karmas impact our present desires. Is there a causal

relationship? Do we desire what we desire because of our prarabdha

karmas? The answer must be yes, at least to a degree, for our karmas

are not merely what happens "to" us, but also who we are, or, at

least, who we appear to be. This must also be a part of what Swamiji

refers to when he talks about the dharma of a thief, whose dharma it

is to become the best thief, or exhorting us not to judge another even

if their life appears to lack balance, because of dharma.

 

We are born into this life in different positions in society, with

different abilities, different opportunities - and different desires.

Not all can be doctors, or fishermen. Not everyone is able to find

devotion for God. Certainly, not everyone can devote themselves,

completely immerse their lives, in Divinity. So, for some dharma is

being a good thief, and for others the highest dharma is available,

the ability to realize God. It is all Her...

 

As Swamiji has explained, the purest desires are those which impell

one toward divinity, toward communion or unity - sattwic desires.

These are desires which are unselfish. But as we have seen, it is not

an all or nothing, either/or situation - there are degrees and

gradations of purity (at least as it relates to individual dharma).

 

It is helpful to look at these ideas within a context like the one

Ramya has provided. In both of these cases there is an element of

unselfishness, of purity, but there is room too for selfish desire.

The mother may be reacting in part to her attachment to her child. The

student may be impelled by a desire to be respected, or even just to

exercize his abilities to the highest degree. Not that either of these

is "bad", they are just not "pure".

 

Ultimately, nothing is pure but God. A life immersed in God, a life

characterized by udasa, a servant of circumstance (circumstance, by

the way, is another way to describe vartmaana [present] karma), is a

pure life, and the desires of that life, being expressions of

divinity, are pure desires. Anything else is a mix, because that is

what we are (or appear to be).

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

, Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108

wrote:

>

> Namaste Everybody,

>

> We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> website.

>

> In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> impure desire?

>

> How would you classify these desires?

>

> Scenario # 1

>

> A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> health of her child.

>

> Scenario # 2

>

> Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

>

> Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

>

> Jai Maa!

>

> ramya

>

>

>

>

________

> Sponsored Link

>

> Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> Www.nextag.com

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sponsored Link

 

$200,000 mortgage for $660/mo - 30/15 yr fixed, reduce debt, home equity - Click now for info

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/15/2006 11:17:11 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,

chriskirner1956 writes:

 

The part our desires play in creating our karmas is apparent when we

understand the relationship between our desires and our subsequent

actions - what this sutra is about. What is less clear is how our

prarabdha karmas impact our present desires. Is there a causal

relationship? Do we desire what we desire because of our prarabdha

karmas? The answer must be yes, at least to a degree, for our karmas

are not merely what happens "to" us, but also who we are, or, at

least, who we appear to be.

 

 

Namaste Dear Family,

 

This is my view of the relationship between prarabdha karmas and desire. If

in a lifetime you as an observer of your own acts see your action and the

actions of others involved in the experience as a unit, the action of others

becomes part of your experience. Then you bring this accumulated knowledge

into the present birth. In current experience the reminders of past karmas come

up, ( someone in a past life that presented a different way to approach the

problem through example ). In the unitive experience the desire may be

emulation of the past example. In our current lifetime based on personal

reflectiveness the same may occur.

 

With Love

 

Kanda

 

Om Namah Sivaya

[Guest guest]

Mimi,

 

I think the essence of what we are saying is, "Do the best that you

can with the Light God has given you."

 

Visualizing a goal, trying not to be attached to circumstances, and

learning to discriminate between pure and impure desires, is the method.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

, mimi spirit

<mimi_female_spirit wrote:

>

> Thank you Karen and Debra. I do believe that the soul evolves and

learns and it takes us many lives before we find the answers. And I

also believe that Knowledge is transferred from one soul to another.

There comes a point in life when we ask questions. When we ask the

right questions the teacher arrives. Perhaps thats when we meet our

Guru - our friend, philosopher and guide. And with the help of our

Guru we find the answers and the complexities of life become a simple

stream of consciousness. And we prepare ourselves for the absolute.

> Chris talks about Karma. It reminds me of the Bhagwad Gita when

Arjuna refuses to go to battle as he does not want to kill his

relatives and the answer Shri Krsna gives him. He makes Arjun realize

that he is just an instrument in the hand of the Lord. Can we deny and

evade our destiny? On the other hand what about free will? Do we have

no choice?

> I believe God and Guru both test us in time. Help us to realize

ourselves and every situation makes us aware of who we are, why are we

here and where we want to go. Eventually all of us want to return to

God. There comes a point in time when we finally free ourselves from

Maya or illusions and desires and we want to merge with God. But till

then we are here to live out our destiny, meet the challenges of life

and overcome the obstacles, participate in the creation and

destruction, accept the duality of life - in other words walk down the

road that will finally take us to our true destination.

> Being raised in a Hindu family from Bengal, my mother taught me

only one prayer...Ma I offer you all my good karma and I offer you all

my bad karma. Free me from both good and bad. I am nothing but an

instrument in your hand. Play me.

> Love

> Mimi

>

> Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote:

> Have to agree with you Karen.

> Mimi has a point.

> I added my thoughts but had to relate to self to come to any

conclusion.

> Agree with you Mimi, It's all about intentions & how can we're

back to judging again.

> Thanks for posting, very good.

> Debi

>

> forall10q <forall10q wrote:

> Thanks, Mimi, for sharing your lovely thoughts. I found your

ideas

> very soothing to the spirit, and I was happy to read them. You have

> a kind and gentle way of presenting thoughts. Makes me sigh, and

> say "ahhhh, how sweet." Love and blesssings, Karen

>

> , mimi spirit

> <mimi_female_spirit@> wrote:

> >

> > I wouldn't go into purity and impurity. I think what we are

> talking about here is intention. There can be no comments on a

> situation like a mother wanting her child to be cured or a child's

> intention to become a doctor to serve his village. Its just a

> perspective - and every perspective is individual and we can only

> remain non-judgmental. Our endeavor is to go beyond desire. Pure or

> impure is not the point. At the same time we accept that desire

> keeps this world evolving. To transcend beyond this world means

> giving up all desires. When are we ready for that? When we have

> fulfilled our roles on this plane and we are ready to reach out for

> a different realm. Why would be here in the first place if we had

> fulfilled all our desires? The soul travels and learns from

> experience and it makes sense when we say that is not only possible

> in one life. The whole point of this journey is to learn, know and

> evolve. How do we judge situations or intentions? We can only hope

> the prayers

> > are heard and the person realizes his or her goals and comes to a

> point when he or she can go beyond those desires. Time reveals it

> all. And when the time comes the person is ready to go beyond

> situations, intentions, purity and impurity.

> > Thats my humble understanding..

> > Love

> > Mimi

> >

> > Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108@> wrote:

> > Namaste Everybody,

> >

> > We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> > weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> > from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> > website.

> >

> > In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> > impure desire?

> >

> > How would you classify these desires?

> >

> > Scenario # 1

> >

> > A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> > hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> > sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> > health of her child.

> >

> > Scenario # 2

> >

> > Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> > for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> > childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> > all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> > that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> > a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

> >

> > Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> > all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> >

> > ramya

> >

> > ________

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> > Www.nextag.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -

> Calculate new house payment

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

Intro-*Terms

>

>

>

>

>

> Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful

email and get things done faster.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tanmaya,

 

This idea of purity/impurity is interesting...

 

You said,

 

>From the highest, most spiritually idealistic, point of view, only God

> is pure, while the entire relative universe consists of God being

> "stepped down" by means of Maya, the gunas, avidya (ignorance),

> successively lower frequency or vibration, and so forth. So this

> universe is, in fact, God, made more or less "impure" by whatever means.

 

This, the idea that the world has varying degrees of impurity/purity

is a common one, and it tends to be the way I think about it too. But

Im not sure it is the right idea...

 

It is a fundamental tenent of tantra, as opposed to Vedanta, that the

universe is real because it is God, and you can not make the really

real (God), unreal. In other words, if the universe is Divine Mother

it cannot simply be an illusion. It seems to me that the same idea

should apply to the pure verses the impure. If the universe is Divine

Mother, then it is all pure, for She is Purity itself.

 

This would, I think, place all the onus for purity/impurity back on

us, on our actions (karmas) and their just desserts, avidya,

attachment, etc.

 

Seeing the world "as equal to God" is difficult in the midst of the

violence and torment of war, but easy in the temple. Yet it is all Her.

 

May I attain the light to truly understand...

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

, "ty_maa" <dsjames wrote:

>

>

> Dear Ramya,

>

> At the risk of drying everyone out with a little philosophy from

> Patanjali's Rajayoga sutras...

>

> There are two possible movements of human attention, Pravritti-"circling

> outward" into ever greater expansion and expression of relative

> evolution-to which there is no limit of which our present minds can

> conceive, and Nivritti-"circling inward" toward the Source and Center of

> the whole evolutionary adventure.

>

> From the highest, most spiritually idealistic, point of view, only God

> is pure, while the entire relative universe consists of God being

> "stepped down" by means of Maya, the gunas, avidya (ignorance),

> successively lower frequency or vibration, and so forth. So this

> universe is, in fact, God, made more or less "impure" by whatever means.

> Therefore, desire for anything in the universe, other than God, could be

> considered an impure desire according to this reasoning.

>

> Conversely, anything that one could "raise" to a state of perfect purity

> (by whatever means) would be

> found to be Divine. For instance, Sri Ramakrishna was fond of saying

> that "pure mind is pure Brahman, ie. God.

>

> A question arises as to whether just anyone is capable of switching

> focus from pravritti to nivritti simply because they wish to do so. The

> answer to this is most often given in terms of the principle of karma.

> If one has outstanding karma, ie. prarabdha karma, and wishes to turn

> one's attention wholly to God, with no thought of the world

> (uncompromising nivritti) it might not turn out so well.

>

> The two kinds of karma are perfectly illustrated by scenarios 1 and 2.

> The "arrow" has left the bow in the case of the young mother, and

> neither God nor man would therefore forgive her if she abandoned her

> child.

>

> In scenario 2, the student still has the option to switch goals and

> become, for instance, an all-renouncing sannysin, devoting his full

> attention to nivritti, the pursuit of God and God Alone. That would be

> possible because his present karma was still vartmana karma-the arrow

> still in the bow, and he could release the tension, or draw a bead on

> some other target which he might choose.

>

> The real pinch usually comes when a person wants God intensly, yet finds

> that he or she still has links of prarabdha karma binding her or himself

> to the world. Yet the very fact that one desires God to such a degree is

> the best indicator that one's karma is becoming more transparent by the

> day.

>

> In the light of all the above, my answer to your first question would

> be: an impure desire is desire for God in a form that one does not

> recognize as God. A pure desire is desire for God in a form which one

> unquestionable knows to be God.

>

> So, what is happening in the case of one whose "karma is becoming more

> transparent by the day"? Maybe nothing more than that one's belief in

> all the bugaboos of maya, karma, ignorance, impurity, etc. is wearing

> thin. They are, after all, only concepts-"thoughts" if you will-which

> exist only in the twin arenas of the unreal "future" and the unreal

> "past".

>

> Whether at work or play or puja, the Present Moment is Pure, Silent,

> Luminous, Divine, and devoid of difficulties..

>

> A tiger above and a tiger below, the dangling man tastes the strawberry:

> "how sweet it is"...

>

> the pleasants of Her Presence.

>

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Tanmaya

>

>

>

>

> , Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108@>

> wrote:

>

> > Namaste Everybody,

> >

> > We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> > weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> > from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> > website.

> >

> > In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> > impure desire?

> >

> > How would you classify these desires?

> >

> > Scenario # 1

> >

> > A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> > hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> > sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> > health of her child.

> >

> > Scenario # 2

> >

> > Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> > for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> > childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> > all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> > that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> > a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

> >

> > Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> > all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> >

> > ramya

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

______________________\

> ____________

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> > Www.nextag.com

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Chris,

Here I would like to point out the Hindus believed in 4 stages of life. However gives some kind of direction to my thought process:

Hinduism recognized four main stages of life. Like the goals of life, these can be divided into three plus one, with the three deriving from the "life is good" strand of Hinduism, and the one deriving from the "life is bad" strand. The first three are the student, the householder, and the retired person, while the fourth is the ascetic.

The last stage is a rejection of life and all that it means in exchange for a search to attain moksha or liberation, that is, release from the cycle of samsara. Of course a person may enter into this stage of life at any time.For instance Vivekananda was evolved to that stage from the very beginning. The rejection of life, especially as defined by the life-affirming strand of Hinduism, is complete. It requires rejection of the household duties and responsibilities of all stages of life. It also requires the rejection of the religious beliefs. Indeed, the ceremony making one a sannyasin included the burning of copies of the Vedas, a symbolic rejection even of one's role in maintaining the cosmos.

I don't intend to make it sound simple. But its a lifestyle that had been followed through centuries. The rejection came only after one had fulfilled his role, satisfied his desires and is ready to transcend all. The values are taught early in life as a student. Armed with that knowledge it was easier to make choices as a youth. And after one completes all duties towards family, friends, society and community, one was ready for spiritual enlightenment. In other words there is a time for everything. Of course there are exceptions to that rule. Some are born much more evolved than others, while others find themselves going through the stages before they reach there.

Love

Mimi

Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote:

Mimi,

 

I think the essence of what we are saying is, "Do the best that you

can with the Light God has given you."

 

Visualizing a goal, trying not to be attached to circumstances, and

learning to discriminate between pure and impure desires, is the method.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

, mimi spirit

<mimi_female_spirit wrote:

>

> Thank you Karen and Debra. I do believe that the soul evolves and

learns and it takes us many lives before we find the answers. And I

also believe that Knowledge is transferred from one soul to another.

There comes a point in life when we ask questions. When we ask the

right questions the teacher arrives. Perhaps thats when we meet our

Guru - our friend, philosopher and guide. And with the help of our

Guru we find the answers and the complexities of life become a simple

stream of consciousness. And we prepare ourselves for the absolute.

> Chris talks about Karma. It reminds me of the Bhagwad Gita when

Arjuna refuses to go to battle as he does not want to kill his

relatives and the answer Shri Krsna gives him. He makes Arjun realize

that he is just an instrument in the hand of the Lord. Can we deny and

evade our destiny? On the other hand what about free will? Do we have

no choice?

> I believe God and Guru both test us in time. Help us to realize

ourselves and every situation makes us aware of who we are, why are we

here and where we want to go. Eventually all of us want to return to

God. There comes a point in time when we finally free ourselves from

Maya or illusions and desires and we want to merge with God. But till

then we are here to live out our destiny, meet the challenges of life

and overcome the obstacles, participate in the creation and

destruction, accept the duality of life - in other words walk down the

road that will finally take us to our true destination.

> Being raised in a Hindu family from Bengal, my mother taught me

only one prayer...Ma I offer you all my good karma and I offer you all

my bad karma. Free me from both good and bad. I am nothing but an

instrument in your hand. Play me.

> Love

> Mimi

>

> Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote:

> Have to agree with you Karen.

> Mimi has a point.

> I added my thoughts but had to relate to self to come to any

conclusion.

> Agree with you Mimi, It's all about intentions & how can we're

back to judging again.

> Thanks for posting, very good.

> Debi

>

> forall10q <forall10q wrote:

> Thanks, Mimi, for sharing your lovely thoughts. I found your

ideas

> very soothing to the spirit, and I was happy to read them. You have

> a kind and gentle way of presenting thoughts. Makes me sigh, and

> say "ahhhh, how sweet." Love and blesssings, Karen

>

> , mimi spirit

> <mimi_female_spirit@> wrote:

> >

> > I wouldn't go into purity and impurity. I think what we are

> talking about here is intention. There can be no comments on a

> situation like a mother wanting her child to be cured or a child's

> intention to become a doctor to serve his village. Its just a

> perspective - and every perspective is individual and we can only

> remain non-judgmental. Our endeavor is to go beyond desire. Pure or

> impure is not the point. At the same time we accept that desire

> keeps this world evolving. To transcend beyond this world means

> giving up all desires. When are we ready for that? When we have

> fulfilled our roles on this plane and we are ready to reach out for

> a different realm. Why would be here in the first place if we had

> fulfilled all our desires? The soul travels and learns from

> experience and it makes sense when we say that is not only possible

> in one life. The whole point of this journey is to learn, know and

> evolve. How do we judge situations or intentions? We can only hope

> the prayers

> > are heard and the person realizes his or her goals and comes to a

> point when he or she can go beyond those desires. Time reveals it

> all. And when the time comes the person is ready to go beyond

> situations, intentions, purity and impurity.

> > Thats my humble understanding..

> > Love

> > Mimi

> >

> > Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108@> wrote:

> > Namaste Everybody,

> >

> > We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> > weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> > from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> > website.

> >

> > In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> > impure desire?

> >

> > How would you classify these desires?

> >

> > Scenario # 1

> >

> > A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> > hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> > sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> > health of her child.

> >

> > Scenario # 2

> >

> > Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> > for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> > childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> > all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> > that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> > a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

> >

> > Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> > all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> >

> > ramya

> >

> > ________

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> > Www.nextag.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -

> Calculate new house payment

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

Intro-*Terms

>

>

>

>

>

> Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful

email and get things done faster.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Debi. It's always nice to hear that something you've said was

meaningful to someone else.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

, Debra McDaniel <student61754

wrote:

>

> Chris,

> Thank you so much for your words.

> Now I know why everyone raves about you so.

> Thanks! This says it all & still leaves the door open for

everything else!

> Debi

>

> Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote:

> This is a very deep subject. There is so much that can be

said, and

> from so many different angles...

>

> The first sutra said that birth results from unfinished karma. The

> second sutra said that an individual's life is bound by desire. There

> is a relationship here between one's karma and one's desires. I don't

> recall Swamiji saying much about the specifics of the relationship

> between the two, but he does talk about the process of rebirth in

> Before Becoming This, about how the search for a suitable body is

> impelled by the desire to fulfill karma. This search can be

> frustratingly painful.

>

> The part our desires play in creating our karmas is apparent when we

> understand the relationship between our desires and our subsequent

> actions - what this sutra is about. What is less clear is how our

> prarabdha karmas impact our present desires. Is there a causal

> relationship? Do we desire what we desire because of our prarabdha

> karmas? The answer must be yes, at least to a degree, for our karmas

> are not merely what happens "to" us, but also who we are, or, at

> least, who we appear to be. This must also be a part of what Swamiji

> refers to when he talks about the dharma of a thief, whose dharma it

> is to become the best thief, or exhorting us not to judge another even

> if their life appears to lack balance, because of dharma.

>

> We are born into this life in different positions in society, with

> different abilities, different opportunities - and different desires.

> Not all can be doctors, or fishermen. Not everyone is able to find

> devotion for God. Certainly, not everyone can devote themselves,

> completely immerse their lives, in Divinity. So, for some dharma is

> being a good thief, and for others the highest dharma is available,

> the ability to realize God. It is all Her...

>

> As Swamiji has explained, the purest desires are those which impell

> one toward divinity, toward communion or unity - sattwic desires.

> These are desires which are unselfish. But as we have seen, it is not

> an all or nothing, either/or situation - there are degrees and

> gradations of purity (at least as it relates to individual dharma).

>

> It is helpful to look at these ideas within a context like the one

> Ramya has provided. In both of these cases there is an element of

> unselfishness, of purity, but there is room too for selfish desire.

> The mother may be reacting in part to her attachment to her child. The

> student may be impelled by a desire to be respected, or even just to

> exercize his abilities to the highest degree. Not that either of these

> is "bad", they are just not "pure".

>

> Ultimately, nothing is pure but God. A life immersed in God, a life

> characterized by udasa, a servant of circumstance (circumstance, by

> the way, is another way to describe vartmaana [present] karma), is a

> pure life, and the desires of that life, being expressions of

> divinity, are pure desires. Anything else is a mix, because that is

> what we are (or appear to be).

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

> , Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Everybody,

> >

> > We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> > weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> > from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> > website.

> >

> > In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> > impure desire?

> >

> > How would you classify these desires?

> >

> > Scenario # 1

> >

> > A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> > hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> > sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> > health of her child.

> >

> > Scenario # 2

> >

> > Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> > for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> > childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> > all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> > that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> > a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

> >

> > Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> > all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> >

> > ramya

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ________

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> > Www.nextag.com

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> $200,000 mortgage for $660/mo - 30/15 yr fixed, reduce debt, home

equity - Click now for info

>

[Guest guest]

Kanda,

 

You said:

 

"In the unitive experience the desire may be emulation of the past

example."

 

This made me think (and I'm probably just "remembering" things I've

read in the past) about the question of intensity. An "example" to use

your term, that has been stored from the past and is now coming to

fruition and affecting our desires in the present, must have an

intensity of feeling, a bhaava, and this bhaava must impact our

present reality. Don't you think?

 

We are storing innumerable karmas every day in our unconscious

(chitta). Some are obviously more intense than others, either through

repetition or through the emotional impact, or perhaps other means (is

there a special category of intensity for spiritual

examples/experiences?). It stands to reason that there is a

relationship between the intensity of the stored example and the

intensity of its affect on our present, our desires and limitations.

 

What this would mean is that when a karma with enough intensity of

bhaava ripens and begins to affect our behavior, our reaction to that

bhaava, if it is like that bhaava (not a reasoned response to mitigate

it), would continue to feed that experience - like a feedback loop

that never ends until we finally do something different and stop the

loop. Hmmm...

 

Whether this idea explains all of the experience of karma, and I know

it doesn't, it does make clear why living with the feeling that "all

is God", and performing every action as worship or service to Her,

stops the cycle of karma. The karmas will come but the only thing that

is fed with bhaava, with intensity, is the idea of God. Eventually,

the only karmas that will ripen are God-karmas!

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

 

, kandaaran wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 11/15/2006 11:17:11 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,

> chriskirner1956 writes:

>

> The part our desires play in creating our karmas is apparent when we

> understand the relationship between our desires and our subsequent

> actions - what this sutra is about. What is less clear is how our

> prarabdha karmas impact our present desires. Is there a causal

> relationship? Do we desire what we desire because of our prarabdha

> karmas? The answer must be yes, at least to a degree, for our karmas

> are not merely what happens "to" us, but also who we are, or, at

> least, who we appear to be.

>

>

> Namaste Dear Family,

>

> This is my view of the relationship between prarabdha karmas and

desire. If

> in a lifetime you as an observer of your own acts see your action

and the

> actions of others involved in the experience as a unit, the action

of others

> becomes part of your experience. Then you bring this accumulated

knowledge

> into the present birth. In current experience the reminders of

past karmas come

> up, ( someone in a past life that presented a different way to

approach the

> problem through example ). .In the unitive experience the desire

may be

> emulation of the past example In our current lifetime based on

personal

> reflectiveness the same may occur.

>

> With Love

>

> Kanda

>

> Om Namah Sivaya

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chris,

 

Three minutes and I'm gone for the day.

 

For purpose of discussion one generally starts with the accepted belief

systems. In this case, the question is about pure/impure desires, and a

great amount of (possibly unexamined) belief or assumption is imbedded

in such a subject.

 

One might say, instead of God, "consciousness", and "impure"

consciousness is then lack of clear perception--or realization.

 

"Is Kali my Mother really black? She is the Light that lights the lotus

of my Heart", sings Ramprasad.

 

Mother as consciousness needs to be "seen" clearly. What obscures that

perception?

 

She also always carries a Sword. There is some kind of necessary

operation implied in that hint-however it may be applied.

 

The error is no doubt in the "eye of the beholder". The chickens always

come home to (the subjective) roost.

 

Lastly, love can only be found in the Present moment, devoid of the

unreal future and the unreal past, ie. devoid of thought.

 

Respectfully,

 

T.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956

wrote:

>

> Hi Tanmaya,

>

> This idea of purity/impurity is interesting...

>

> You said,

>

> From the highest, most spiritually idealistic, point of view, only God

> > is pure, while the entire relative universe consists of God being

> > "stepped down" by means of Maya, the gunas, avidya (ignorance),

> > successively lower frequency or vibration, and so forth. So this

> > universe is, in fact, God, made more or less "impure" by whatever

means.

>

> This, the idea that the world has varying degrees of impurity/purity

> is a common one, and it tends to be the way I think about it too. But

> Im not sure it is the right idea...

>

> It is a fundamental tenent of tantra, as opposed to Vedanta, that the

> universe is real because it is God, and you can not make the really

> real (God), unreal. In other words, if the universe is Divine Mother

> it cannot simply be an illusion. It seems to me that the same idea

> should apply to the pure verses the impure. If the universe is Divine

> Mother, then it is all pure, for She is Purity itself.

>

> This would, I think, place all the onus for purity/impurity back on

> us, on our actions (karmas) and their just desserts, avidya,

> attachment, etc.

>

> Seeing the world "as equal to God" is difficult in the midst of the

> violence and torment of war, but easy in the temple. Yet it is all

Her.

>

> May I attain the light to truly understand...

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

>

>

> , "ty_maa" dsjames@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Ramya,

> >

> > At the risk of drying everyone out with a little philosophy from

> > Patanjali's Rajayoga sutras...

> >

> > There are two possible movements of human attention,

Pravritti-"circling

> > outward" into ever greater expansion and expression of relative

> > evolution-to which there is no limit of which our present minds can

> > conceive, and Nivritti-"circling inward" toward the Source and

Center of

> > the whole evolutionary adventure.

> >

> > From the highest, most spiritually idealistic, point of view, only

God

> > is pure, while the entire relative universe consists of God being

> > "stepped down" by means of Maya, the gunas, avidya (ignorance),

> > successively lower frequency or vibration, and so forth. So this

> > universe is, in fact, God, made more or less "impure" by whatever

means.

> > Therefore, desire for anything in the universe, other than God,

could be

> > considered an impure desire according to this reasoning.

> >

> > Conversely, anything that one could "raise" to a state of perfect

purity

> > (by whatever means) would be

> > found to be Divine. For instance, Sri Ramakrishna was fond of

saying

> > that "pure mind is pure Brahman, ie. God.

> >

> > A question arises as to whether just anyone is capable of switching

> > focus from pravritti to nivritti simply because they wish to do so.

The

> > answer to this is most often given in terms of the principle of

karma.

> > If one has outstanding karma, ie. prarabdha karma, and wishes to

turn

> > one's attention wholly to God, with no thought of the world

> > (uncompromising nivritti) it might not turn out so well.

> >

> > The two kinds of karma are perfectly illustrated by scenarios 1 and

2.

> > The "arrow" has left the bow in the case of the young mother, and

> > neither God nor man would therefore forgive her if she abandoned her

> > child.

> >

> > In scenario 2, the student still has the option to switch goals and

> > become, for instance, an all-renouncing sannysin, devoting his full

> > attention to nivritti, the pursuit of God and God Alone. That would

be

> > possible because his present karma was still vartmana karma-the

arrow

> > still in the bow, and he could release the tension, or draw a bead

on

> > some other target which he might choose.

> >

> > The real pinch usually comes when a person wants God intensly, yet

finds

> > that he or she still has links of prarabdha karma binding her or

himself

> > to the world. Yet the very fact that one desires God to such a

degree is

> > the best indicator that one's karma is becoming more transparent by

the

> > day.

> >

> > In the light of all the above, my answer to your first question

would

> > be: an impure desire is desire for God in a form that one does not

> > recognize as God. A pure desire is desire for God in a form which

one

> > unquestionable knows to be God.

> >

> > So, what is happening in the case of one whose "karma is becoming

more

> > transparent by the day"? Maybe nothing more than that one's belief

in

> > all the bugaboos of maya, karma, ignorance, impurity, etc. is

wearing

> > thin. They are, after all, only concepts-"thoughts" if you

will-which

> > exist only in the twin arenas of the unreal "future" and the unreal

> > "past".

> >

> > Whether at work or play or puja, the Present Moment is Pure, Silent,

> > Luminous, Divine, and devoid of difficulties..

> >

> > A tiger above and a tiger below, the dangling man tastes the

strawberry:

> > "how sweet it is"...

> >

> > the pleasants of Her Presence.

> >

> >

> > Respectfully,

> >

> > Tanmaya

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108@>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Namaste Everybody,

> > >

> > > We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> > > weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> > > from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> > > website.

> > >

> > > In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> > > impure desire?

> > >

> > > How would you classify these desires?

> > >

> > > Scenario # 1

> > >

> > > A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> > > hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> > > sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> > > health of her child.

> > >

> > > Scenario # 2

> > >

> > > Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> > > for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> > > childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> > > all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> > > that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> > > a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

> > >

> > > Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> > > all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

> > >

> > > Jai Maa!

> > >

> > > ramya

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

______________________\

\

> > ____________

> > > Sponsored Link

> > >

> > > Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> > > Www.nextag.com

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, this is an important part of the discussion of dharma and karma

and the search for God.

 

I think it is just all screwed-up in this kali yuga. It is interesting

to me that in Vedic times all (well, most) of the great ones were

householders, while in the present time, to be ascetic is the example

of most saints.

 

If we believe in anything as tantrics, or shaktas, it seems to me we

must believe in the value of life. It is, after all, Her expression,

Her desire.

 

For Shree Maa, who embodies this ideal for me, everything and everyone

is beautiful. This life is beautiful. Yet still, she ranges the

universe in her subtle form, and patiently waits for the day she will

be free from the constraints of her ever-weakening physical form.

 

As well, it must be remembered that Ramakrishna spent his life in a

temple, as did Sarada, and Shree Maa has always been ascetic.

 

I think perhaps the four ashramas are a good way to view the structure

of life, in a general sense, and from a social perspective. A society

needs to find a way to include and allow in a way that promotes both

individual freedom and growth, and perpetuates the society. After all

a society that promoted asceticism (even if it could be done) at an

early age would die-out in a few generations.

 

In the same way that religions do not have anything to do with the

realization of God (it is an individual thing), the four ashramas do

not have anything to do with the life of the saint. The two may travel

together for a while, but soon there is a parting.

 

What does this say about us? I don't really know...I am certainly not

a saint. But I recognize that even with all of my faults and failings,

and there are more than a few I assure you, I have grace in my life

that most do not. It is rather confusing, this kali yuga...

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

, mimi spirit

<mimi_female_spirit wrote:

>

> Chris,

> Here I would like to point out the Hindus believed in 4 stages of

life. However gives some kind of direction to my thought process:

>

> Hinduism recognized four main stages of life. Like the goals of

life, these can be divided into three plus one, with the three

deriving from the "life is good" strand of Hinduism, and the one

deriving from the "life is bad" strand. The first three are the

student, the householder, and the retired person, while the fourth is

the ascetic.

>

> The last stage is a rejection of life and all that it means in

exchange for a search to attain moksha or liberation, that is, release

from the cycle of samsara. Of course a person may enter into this

stage of life at any time.For instance Vivekananda was evolved to that

stage from the very beginning. The rejection of life, especially as

defined by the life-affirming strand of Hinduism, is complete. It

requires rejection of the household duties and responsibilities of all

stages of life. It also requires the rejection of the religious

beliefs. Indeed, the ceremony making one a sannyasin included the

burning of copies of the Vedas, a symbolic rejection even of one's

role in maintaining the cosmos.

>

> I don't intend to make it sound simple. But its a lifestyle that

had been followed through centuries. The rejection came only after one

had fulfilled his role, satisfied his desires and is ready to

transcend all. The values are taught early in life as a student. Armed

with that knowledge it was easier to make choices as a youth. And

after one completes all duties towards family, friends, society and

community, one was ready for spiritual enlightenment. In other words

there is a time for everything. Of course there are exceptions to that

rule. Some are born much more evolved than others, while others find

themselves going through the stages before they reach there.

> Love

> Mimi

>

> Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote:

> Mimi,

>

> I think the essence of what we are saying is, "Do the best that you

> can with the Light God has given you."

>

> Visualizing a goal, trying not to be attached to circumstances, and

> learning to discriminate between pure and impure desires, is the method.

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

> , mimi spirit

> <mimi_female_spirit@> wrote:

> >

> > Thank you Karen and Debra. I do believe that the soul evolves and

> learns and it takes us many lives before we find the answers. And I

> also believe that Knowledge is transferred from one soul to another.

> There comes a point in life when we ask questions. When we ask the

> right questions the teacher arrives. Perhaps thats when we meet our

> Guru - our friend, philosopher and guide. And with the help of our

> Guru we find the answers and the complexities of life become a simple

> stream of consciousness. And we prepare ourselves for the absolute.

> > Chris talks about Karma. It reminds me of the Bhagwad Gita when

> Arjuna refuses to go to battle as he does not want to kill his

> relatives and the answer Shri Krsna gives him. He makes Arjun realize

> that he is just an instrument in the hand of the Lord. Can we deny and

> evade our destiny? On the other hand what about free will? Do we have

> no choice?

> > I believe God and Guru both test us in time. Help us to realize

> ourselves and every situation makes us aware of who we are, why are we

> here and where we want to go. Eventually all of us want to return to

> God. There comes a point in time when we finally free ourselves from

> Maya or illusions and desires and we want to merge with God. But till

> then we are here to live out our destiny, meet the challenges of life

> and overcome the obstacles, participate in the creation and

> destruction, accept the duality of life - in other words walk down the

> road that will finally take us to our true destination.

> > Being raised in a Hindu family from Bengal, my mother taught me

> only one prayer...Ma I offer you all my good karma and I offer you all

> my bad karma. Free me from both good and bad. I am nothing but an

> instrument in your hand. Play me.

> > Love

> > Mimi

> >

> > Debra McDaniel <student61754@> wrote:

> > Have to agree with you Karen.

> > Mimi has a point.

> > I added my thoughts but had to relate to self to come to any

> conclusion.

> > Agree with you Mimi, It's all about intentions & how can we're

> back to judging again.

> > Thanks for posting, very good.

> > Debi

> >

> > forall10q <forall10q@> wrote:

> > Thanks, Mimi, for sharing your lovely thoughts. I found your

> ideas

> > very soothing to the spirit, and I was happy to read them. You have

> > a kind and gentle way of presenting thoughts. Makes me sigh, and

> > say "ahhhh, how sweet." Love and blesssings, Karen

> >

> > , mimi spirit

> > <mimi_female_spirit@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I wouldn't go into purity and impurity. I think what we are

> > talking about here is intention. There can be no comments on a

> > situation like a mother wanting her child to be cured or a child's

> > intention to become a doctor to serve his village. Its just a

> > perspective - and every perspective is individual and we can only

> > remain non-judgmental. Our endeavor is to go beyond desire. Pure or

> > impure is not the point. At the same time we accept that desire

> > keeps this world evolving. To transcend beyond this world means

> > giving up all desires. When are we ready for that? When we have

> > fulfilled our roles on this plane and we are ready to reach out for

> > a different realm. Why would be here in the first place if we had

> > fulfilled all our desires? The soul travels and learns from

> > experience and it makes sense when we say that is not only possible

> > in one life. The whole point of this journey is to learn, know and

> > evolve. How do we judge situations or intentions? We can only hope

> > the prayers

> > > are heard and the person realizes his or her goals and comes to a

> > point when he or she can go beyond those desires. Time reveals it

> > all. And when the time comes the person is ready to go beyond

> > situations, intentions, purity and impurity.

> > > Thats my humble understanding..

> > > Love

> > > Mimi

> > >

> > > Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108@> wrote:

> > > Namaste Everybody,

> > >

> > > We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> > > weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> > > from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> > > website.

> > >

> > > In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> > > impure desire?

> > >

> > > How would you classify these desires?

> > >

> > > Scenario # 1

> > >

> > > A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> > > hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> > > sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> > > health of her child.

> > >

> > > Scenario # 2

> > >

> > > Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> > > for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> > > childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> > > all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> > > that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> > > a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

> > >

> > > Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> > > all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

> > >

> > > Jai Maa!

> > >

> > > ramya

> > >

> > > ________

> > > Sponsored Link

> > >

> > > Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> > > Www.nextag.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sponsored Link

> > >

> > > Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -

> > Calculate new house payment

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

> Intro-*Terms

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful

> email and get things done faster.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful

email and get things done faster.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/16/2006 3:38:42 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,

chriskirner1956 writes:

 

must have an

intensity of feeling, a bhaava, and this bhaava must impact our

present reality. Don't you think?

 

 

 

Namaste Chris

 

Yes and my attempt was to differentiate between it's just karma

action-reaction and an example that created a desire to work with karma in a more

positive way. The mother with the ill child and the doctor. From my view both

became more spiritually oriented based on past karma.

 

Kanda

 

Om Namah Sivaya

[Guest guest]

Yes, religion has got nothing to do with God realization. Like Ramkrishna said " Nana math, nana path" translated various opinions, various paths. But it all leads to one place. The abode of God.

Talking about flaws and karmas - reminds me of Valmiki who wrote the Ramayana. The popular belief is that he was a Highway robber before he became a saint. How could he have written the Ramayana without divine grace? Does Divinity turn face away when we are ready to give up our old ways, change and transform? Nah.

If we believe in the Divine Mother then we also believe that She tolerates our insanity and ignorance, She forgives us when we are filled with remorse. She even shows us tough love to mend our ways. That is Her grace. And yes, this life is beautiful. There is darkness and there is light. Without the darkness how would we appreciate light?

Mimi

Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote:

Yes, this is an important part of the discussion of dharma and karma

and the search for God.

 

I think it is just all screwed-up in this kali yuga. It is interesting

to me that in Vedic times all (well, most) of the great ones were

householders, while in the present time, to be ascetic is the example

of most saints.

 

If we believe in anything as tantrics, or shaktas, it seems to me we

must believe in the value of life. It is, after all, Her expression,

Her desire.

 

For Shree Maa, who embodies this ideal for me, everything and everyone

is beautiful. This life is beautiful. Yet still, she ranges the

universe in her subtle form, and patiently waits for the day she will

be free from the constraints of her ever-weakening physical form.

 

As well, it must be remembered that Ramakrishna spent his life in a

temple, as did Sarada, and Shree Maa has always been ascetic.

 

I think perhaps the four ashramas are a good way to view the structure

of life, in a general sense, and from a social perspective. A society

needs to find a way to include and allow in a way that promotes both

individual freedom and growth, and perpetuates the society. After all

a society that promoted asceticism (even if it could be done) at an

early age would die-out in a few generations.

 

In the same way that religions do not have anything to do with the

realization of God (it is an individual thing), the four ashramas do

not have anything to do with the life of the saint. The two may travel

together for a while, but soon there is a parting.

 

What does this say about us? I don't really know...I am certainly not

a saint. But I recognize that even with all of my faults and failings,

and there are more than a few I assure you, I have grace in my life

that most do not. It is rather confusing, this kali yuga...

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

, mimi spirit

<mimi_female_spirit wrote:

>

> Chris,

> Here I would like to point out the Hindus believed in 4 stages of

life. However gives some kind of direction to my thought process:

>

> Hinduism recognized four main stages of life. Like the goals of

life, these can be divided into three plus one, with the three

deriving from the "life is good" strand of Hinduism, and the one

deriving from the "life is bad" strand. The first three are the

student, the householder, and the retired person, while the fourth is

the ascetic.

>

> The last stage is a rejection of life and all that it means in

exchange for a search to attain moksha or liberation, that is, release

from the cycle of samsara. Of course a person may enter into this

stage of life at any time.For instance Vivekananda was evolved to that

stage from the very beginning. The rejection of life, especially as

defined by the life-affirming strand of Hinduism, is complete. It

requires rejection of the household duties and responsibilities of all

stages of life. It also requires the rejection of the religious

beliefs. Indeed, the ceremony making one a sannyasin included the

burning of copies of the Vedas, a symbolic rejection even of one's

role in maintaining the cosmos.

>

> I don't intend to make it sound simple. But its a lifestyle that

had been followed through centuries. The rejection came only after one

had fulfilled his role, satisfied his desires and is ready to

transcend all. The values are taught early in life as a student. Armed

with that knowledge it was easier to make choices as a youth. And

after one completes all duties towards family, friends, society and

community, one was ready for spiritual enlightenment. In other words

there is a time for everything. Of course there are exceptions to that

rule. Some are born much more evolved than others, while others find

themselves going through the stages before they reach there.

> Love

> Mimi

>

> Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote:

> Mimi,

>

> I think the essence of what we are saying is, "Do the best that you

> can with the Light God has given you."

>

> Visualizing a goal, trying not to be attached to circumstances, and

> learning to discriminate between pure and impure desires, is the method.

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

> , mimi spirit

> <mimi_female_spirit@> wrote:

> >

> > Thank you Karen and Debra. I do believe that the soul evolves and

> learns and it takes us many lives before we find the answers. And I

> also believe that Knowledge is transferred from one soul to another.

> There comes a point in life when we ask questions. When we ask the

> right questions the teacher arrives. Perhaps thats when we meet our

> Guru - our friend, philosopher and guide. And with the help of our

> Guru we find the answers and the complexities of life become a simple

> stream of consciousness. And we prepare ourselves for the absolute.

> > Chris talks about Karma. It reminds me of the Bhagwad Gita when

> Arjuna refuses to go to battle as he does not want to kill his

> relatives and the answer Shri Krsna gives him. He makes Arjun realize

> that he is just an instrument in the hand of the Lord. Can we deny and

> evade our destiny? On the other hand what about free will? Do we have

> no choice?

> > I believe God and Guru both test us in time. Help us to realize

> ourselves and every situation makes us aware of who we are, why are we

> here and where we want to go. Eventually all of us want to return to

> God. There comes a point in time when we finally free ourselves from

> Maya or illusions and desires and we want to merge with God. But till

> then we are here to live out our destiny, meet the challenges of life

> and overcome the obstacles, participate in the creation and

> destruction, accept the duality of life - in other words walk down the

> road that will finally take us to our true destination.

> > Being raised in a Hindu family from Bengal, my mother taught me

> only one prayer...Ma I offer you all my good karma and I offer you all

> my bad karma. Free me from both good and bad. I am nothing but an

> instrument in your hand. Play me.

> > Love

> > Mimi

> >

> > Debra McDaniel <student61754@> wrote:

> > Have to agree with you Karen.

> > Mimi has a point.

> > I added my thoughts but had to relate to self to come to any

> conclusion.

> > Agree with you Mimi, It's all about intentions & how can we're

> back to judging again.

> > Thanks for posting, very good.

> > Debi

> >

> > forall10q <forall10q@> wrote:

> > Thanks, Mimi, for sharing your lovely thoughts. I found your

> ideas

> > very soothing to the spirit, and I was happy to read them. You have

> > a kind and gentle way of presenting thoughts. Makes me sigh, and

> > say "ahhhh, how sweet." Love and blesssings, Karen

> >

> > , mimi spirit

> > <mimi_female_spirit@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I wouldn't go into purity and impurity. I think what we are

> > talking about here is intention. There can be no comments on a

> > situation like a mother wanting her child to be cured or a child's

> > intention to become a doctor to serve his village. Its just a

> > perspective - and every perspective is individual and we can only

> > remain non-judgmental. Our endeavor is to go beyond desire. Pure or

> > impure is not the point. At the same time we accept that desire

> > keeps this world evolving. To transcend beyond this world means

> > giving up all desires. When are we ready for that? When we have

> > fulfilled our roles on this plane and we are ready to reach out for

> > a different realm. Why would be here in the first place if we had

> > fulfilled all our desires? The soul travels and learns from

> > experience and it makes sense when we say that is not only possible

> > in one life. The whole point of this journey is to learn, know and

> > evolve. How do we judge situations or intentions? We can only hope

> > the prayers

> > > are heard and the person realizes his or her goals and comes to a

> > point when he or she can go beyond those desires. Time reveals it

> > all. And when the time comes the person is ready to go beyond

> > situations, intentions, purity and impurity.

> > > Thats my humble understanding..

> > > Love

> > > Mimi

> > >

> > > Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108@> wrote:

> > > Namaste Everybody,

> > >

> > > We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> > > weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> > > from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> > > website.

> > >

> > > In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> > > impure desire?

> > >

> > > How would you classify these desires?

> > >

> > > Scenario # 1

> > >

> > > A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> > > hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> > > sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> > > health of her child.

> > >

> > > Scenario # 2

> > >

> > > Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> > > for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> > > childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> > > all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> > > that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> > > a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

> > >

> > > Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> > > all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

> > >

> > > Jai Maa!

> > >

> > > ramya

> > >

> > > ________

> > > Sponsored Link

> > >

> > > Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> > > Www.nextag.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sponsored Link

> > >

> > > Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -

> > Calculate new house payment

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

> Intro-*Terms

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful

> email and get things done faster.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful

email and get things done faster.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sponsored Link

 

$420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/month - Think You Pay Too Much For Your Mortgage? Find Out!

[Guest guest]

, kandaaran wrote:

> Namastes and JAI MAA >>

I have been slightly overwhelmed by the torrent of posts, all of

which are compelling me to add to the fray, since these topics are

so dear to my heart and so relevant in our daily lives. As much as

we accept the eternal facts of the utter needs of performing our

karma, based on our past, present, future, and inherent inbuilt

nature, we are at times, forced to question the creator of the

karmas.

Inasmuch as Arjuna was perplexed at the Kurushetra battleground and

Krishna succintly pointed out the substratum of our karmas, one

cannot but dig deeper to find out the absolute = there is no kartha,

or karya or palan( results ), since in Chpater 12, Krishna boldly

emphasises that he dwells in the inner "vibhu" heart of that

devotee, who is without desires or who performs his "duties" with no

thought of the results. But in modern world, we are still bound by

certain obligatory deeds, actions, inactions and thought streams,

which bind us into some unique and unseen order, which are

underwritten by ethics, history, culture, traditions and constant

repetition and deep pouring in of abstract feelings on the doership,

with its concurrent results. The ideas of rewards for work,love and

hate, wants versus needs, beauty and ugliness, pain and

sufferings, coupled with the thlousands pairs of opposites in our

daily and worldly "jeevanas " have darkened our innate concepts of

purity and clarity. These lead us to the never ending battles of

maya and vichar without any apparent ends. Goals and desires are

great guideposts in our inner path of the removal of duality towards

the shining one-ness with our chosen "ishta devatha" In our current

forms Shree Maa and Swamiji are also mile markers as we nurture

the "goals" through our desires. Being an aspirant for perfection

in all its forms and shapes is a glorious endevour, as long as we

have the subtle perception of the need to discreetly discriminate

the purposes of our existence in our present state. If we can

reiterate the Bhavani Ashtakam of Shankaracharya in our daily lives,

we could enjoy internal "yoga nidhra" and still subsist in the

physical form here. To get that strength and occasional glimpses of

that fleeting "bhava", one strives for our ever present Guru Kripa.

Thanks to Shree Maa and Swamiji, we have an abundant resource, and

it is for us to maximize the utilisation. How incredibly fortunate

are we , in that, amongst the Six and Half Billion in this world, we

form a tiny, weeny miniscule speck of thought cultivators.. even

this is due to the ultimate Guru Kripa and Guru Darshana, Did we

have, really, a Choice!! ??

 

Jai MAA and namastes.

babu

>

> In a message dated 11/16/2006 3:38:42 P.M. Mountain Standard

Time,

> chriskirner1956 writes:

>

> must have an

> intensity of feeling, a bhaava, and this bhaava must impact our

> present reality. Don't you think?

>

>

>

> Namaste Chris

>

> Yes and my attempt was to differentiate between it's just karma

> action-reaction and an example that created a desire to work with

karma in a more

> positive way. The mother with the ill child and the doctor.

>From my view both

> became more spiritually oriented based on past karma.

>

> Kanda

>

> Om Namah Sivaya

>

[Guest guest]

JAI MAA!!!

 

Chris

 

 

, kandaaran wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 11/16/2006 3:38:42 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,

> chriskirner1956 writes:

>

> must have an

> intensity of feeling, a bhaava, and this bhaava must impact our

> present reality. Don't you think?

>

>

>

> Namaste Chris

>

> Yes and my attempt was to differentiate between it's just karma

> action-reaction and an example that created a desire to work with

karma in a more

> positive way. The mother with the ill child and the doctor. From

my view both

> became more spiritually oriented based on past karma.

>

> Kanda

>

> Om Namah Sivaya

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tanmaya,

 

Yes!

 

You said:

 

"One might say, instead of God, "consciousness", and "impure"

consciousness is then lack of clear perception--or realization."

 

I think that no matter how great our tendency is to see impurity and

ugliness outside, the truth is that the impurity and ugliness is ours

alone.

 

That said, I wonder at the distance that separates my perceptions of

this world, with so much horror and torment apparent, from those of

our Mother, who, though filled with compassion for our suffering,

nevertheless sees only beauty and order.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

 

, "ty_maa" <dsjames wrote:

>

>

> Dear Chris,

>

> Three minutes and I'm gone for the day.

>

> For purpose of discussion one generally starts with the accepted belief

> systems. In this case, the question is about pure/impure desires, and a

> great amount of (possibly unexamined) belief or assumption is imbedded

> in such a subject.

>

> One might say, instead of God, "consciousness", and "impure"

> consciousness is then lack of clear perception--or realization.

>

> "Is Kali my Mother really black? She is the Light that lights the lotus

> of my Heart", sings Ramprasad.

>

> Mother as consciousness needs to be "seen" clearly. What obscures that

> perception?

>

> She also always carries a Sword. There is some kind of necessary

> operation implied in that hint-however it may be applied.

>

> The error is no doubt in the "eye of the beholder". The chickens always

> come home to (the subjective) roost.

>

> Lastly, love can only be found in the Present moment, devoid of the

> unreal future and the unreal past, ie. devoid of thought.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> T.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Tanmaya,

> >

> > This idea of purity/impurity is interesting...

> >

> > You said,

> >

> > From the highest, most spiritually idealistic, point of view, only God

> > > is pure, while the entire relative universe consists of God being

> > > "stepped down" by means of Maya, the gunas, avidya (ignorance),

> > > successively lower frequency or vibration, and so forth. So this

> > > universe is, in fact, God, made more or less "impure" by whatever

> means.

> >

> > This, the idea that the world has varying degrees of impurity/purity

> > is a common one, and it tends to be the way I think about it too. But

> > Im not sure it is the right idea...

> >

> > It is a fundamental tenent of tantra, as opposed to Vedanta, that the

> > universe is real because it is God, and you can not make the really

> > real (God), unreal. In other words, if the universe is Divine Mother

> > it cannot simply be an illusion. It seems to me that the same idea

> > should apply to the pure verses the impure. If the universe is Divine

> > Mother, then it is all pure, for She is Purity itself.

> >

> > This would, I think, place all the onus for purity/impurity back on

> > us, on our actions (karmas) and their just desserts, avidya,

> > attachment, etc.

> >

> > Seeing the world "as equal to God" is difficult in the midst of the

> > violence and torment of war, but easy in the temple. Yet it is all

> Her.

> >

> > May I attain the light to truly understand...

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> >

> >

> > , "ty_maa" dsjames@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Ramya,

> > >

> > > At the risk of drying everyone out with a little philosophy from

> > > Patanjali's Rajayoga sutras...

> > >

> > > There are two possible movements of human attention,

> Pravritti-"circling

> > > outward" into ever greater expansion and expression of relative

> > > evolution-to which there is no limit of which our present minds can

> > > conceive, and Nivritti-"circling inward" toward the Source and

> Center of

> > > the whole evolutionary adventure.

> > >

> > > From the highest, most spiritually idealistic, point of view, only

> God

> > > is pure, while the entire relative universe consists of God being

> > > "stepped down" by means of Maya, the gunas, avidya (ignorance),

> > > successively lower frequency or vibration, and so forth. So this

> > > universe is, in fact, God, made more or less "impure" by whatever

> means.

> > > Therefore, desire for anything in the universe, other than God,

> could be

> > > considered an impure desire according to this reasoning.

> > >

> > > Conversely, anything that one could "raise" to a state of perfect

> purity

> > > (by whatever means) would be

> > > found to be Divine. For instance, Sri Ramakrishna was fond of

> saying

> > > that "pure mind is pure Brahman, ie. God.

> > >

> > > A question arises as to whether just anyone is capable of switching

> > > focus from pravritti to nivritti simply because they wish to do so.

> The

> > > answer to this is most often given in terms of the principle of

> karma.

> > > If one has outstanding karma, ie. prarabdha karma, and wishes to

> turn

> > > one's attention wholly to God, with no thought of the world

> > > (uncompromising nivritti) it might not turn out so well.

> > >

> > > The two kinds of karma are perfectly illustrated by scenarios 1 and

> 2.

> > > The "arrow" has left the bow in the case of the young mother, and

> > > neither God nor man would therefore forgive her if she abandoned her

> > > child.

> > >

> > > In scenario 2, the student still has the option to switch goals and

> > > become, for instance, an all-renouncing sannysin, devoting his full

> > > attention to nivritti, the pursuit of God and God Alone. That would

> be

> > > possible because his present karma was still vartmana karma-the

> arrow

> > > still in the bow, and he could release the tension, or draw a bead

> on

> > > some other target which he might choose.

> > >

> > > The real pinch usually comes when a person wants God intensly, yet

> finds

> > > that he or she still has links of prarabdha karma binding her or

> himself

> > > to the world. Yet the very fact that one desires God to such a

> degree is

> > > the best indicator that one's karma is becoming more transparent by

> the

> > > day.

> > >

> > > In the light of all the above, my answer to your first question

> would

> > > be: an impure desire is desire for God in a form that one does not

> > > recognize as God. A pure desire is desire for God in a form which

> one

> > > unquestionable knows to be God.

> > >

> > > So, what is happening in the case of one whose "karma is becoming

> more

> > > transparent by the day"? Maybe nothing more than that one's belief

> in

> > > all the bugaboos of maya, karma, ignorance, impurity, etc. is

> wearing

> > > thin. They are, after all, only concepts-"thoughts" if you

> will-which

> > > exist only in the twin arenas of the unreal "future" and the unreal

> > > "past".

> > >

> > > Whether at work or play or puja, the Present Moment is Pure, Silent,

> > > Luminous, Divine, and devoid of difficulties..

> > >

> > > A tiger above and a tiger below, the dangling man tastes the

> strawberry:

> > > "how sweet it is"...

> > >

> > > the pleasants of Her Presence.

> > >

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > >

> > > Tanmaya

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108@>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Namaste Everybody,

> > > >

> > > > We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> > > > weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> > > > from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> > > > website.

> > > >

> > > > In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> > > > impure desire?

> > > >

> > > > How would you classify these desires?

> > > >

> > > > Scenario # 1

> > > >

> > > > A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> > > > hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> > > > sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> > > > health of her child.

> > > >

> > > > Scenario # 2

> > > >

> > > > Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> > > > for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> > > > childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> > > > all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> > > > that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> > > > a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

> > > >

> > > > Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> > > > all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

> > > >

> > > > Jai Maa!

> > > >

> > > > ramya

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

______________________\

> \

> > > ____________

> > > > Sponsored Link

> > > >

> > > > Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> > > > Www.nextag.com

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

"If we believe in the Divine Mother then we also believe that She

tolerates our insanity and ignorance, She forgives us when we are

filled with remorse. She even shows us tough love to mend our ways.

That is Her grace. And yes, this life is beautiful. There is darkness

and there is light. Without the darkness how would we appreciate light?

Mimi"

 

That is soo wonderously beautiful, isn't it??

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

, mimi spirit

<mimi_female_spirit wrote:

>

> Yes, religion has got nothing to do with God realization. Like

Ramkrishna said " Nana math, nana path" translated various opinions,

various paths. But it all leads to one place. The abode of God.

> Talking about flaws and karmas - reminds me of Valmiki who wrote

the Ramayana. The popular belief is that he was a Highway robber

before he became a saint. How could he have written the Ramayana

without divine grace? Does Divinity turn face away when we are ready

to give up our old ways, change and transform? Nah.

> If we believe in the Divine Mother then we also believe that She

tolerates our insanity and ignorance, She forgives us when we are

filled with remorse. She even shows us tough love to mend our ways.

That is Her grace. And yes, this life is beautiful. There is darkness

and there is light. Without the darkness how would we appreciate light?

> Mimi

> Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote:

> Yes, this is an important part of the discussion of dharma

and karma

> and the search for God.

>

> I think it is just all screwed-up in this kali yuga. It is interesting

> to me that in Vedic times all (well, most) of the great ones were

> householders, while in the present time, to be ascetic is the example

> of most saints.

>

> If we believe in anything as tantrics, or shaktas, it seems to me we

> must believe in the value of life. It is, after all, Her expression,

> Her desire.

>

> For Shree Maa, who embodies this ideal for me, everything and everyone

> is beautiful. This life is beautiful. Yet still, she ranges the

> universe in her subtle form, and patiently waits for the day she will

> be free from the constraints of her ever-weakening physical form.

>

> As well, it must be remembered that Ramakrishna spent his life in a

> temple, as did Sarada, and Shree Maa has always been ascetic.

>

> I think perhaps the four ashramas are a good way to view the structure

> of life, in a general sense, and from a social perspective. A society

> needs to find a way to include and allow in a way that promotes both

> individual freedom and growth, and perpetuates the society. After all

> a society that promoted asceticism (even if it could be done) at an

> early age would die-out in a few generations.

>

> In the same way that religions do not have anything to do with the

> realization of God (it is an individual thing), the four ashramas do

> not have anything to do with the life of the saint. The two may travel

> together for a while, but soon there is a parting.

>

> What does this say about us? I don't really know...I am certainly not

> a saint. But I recognize that even with all of my faults and failings,

> and there are more than a few I assure you, I have grace in my life

> that most do not. It is rather confusing, this kali yuga...

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

>

> , mimi spirit

> <mimi_female_spirit@> wrote:

> >

> > Chris,

> > Here I would like to point out the Hindus believed in 4 stages of

> life. However gives some kind of direction to my thought process:

> >

> > Hinduism recognized four main stages of life. Like the goals of

> life, these can be divided into three plus one, with the three

> deriving from the "life is good" strand of Hinduism, and the one

> deriving from the "life is bad" strand. The first three are the

> student, the householder, and the retired person, while the fourth is

> the ascetic.

> >

> > The last stage is a rejection of life and all that it means in

> exchange for a search to attain moksha or liberation, that is, release

> from the cycle of samsara. Of course a person may enter into this

> stage of life at any time.For instance Vivekananda was evolved to that

> stage from the very beginning. The rejection of life, especially as

> defined by the life-affirming strand of Hinduism, is complete. It

> requires rejection of the household duties and responsibilities of all

> stages of life. It also requires the rejection of the religious

> beliefs. Indeed, the ceremony making one a sannyasin included the

> burning of copies of the Vedas, a symbolic rejection even of one's

> role in maintaining the cosmos.

> >

> > I don't intend to make it sound simple. But its a lifestyle that

> had been followed through centuries. The rejection came only after one

> had fulfilled his role, satisfied his desires and is ready to

> transcend all. The values are taught early in life as a student. Armed

> with that knowledge it was easier to make choices as a youth. And

> after one completes all duties towards family, friends, society and

> community, one was ready for spiritual enlightenment. In other words

> there is a time for everything. Of course there are exceptions to that

> rule. Some are born much more evolved than others, while others find

> themselves going through the stages before they reach there.

> > Love

> > Mimi

> >

> > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956@> wrote:

> > Mimi,

> >

> > I think the essence of what we are saying is, "Do the best that you

> > can with the Light God has given you."

> >

> > Visualizing a goal, trying not to be attached to circumstances, and

> > learning to discriminate between pure and impure desires, is the

method.

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> > , mimi spirit

> > <mimi_female_spirit@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Thank you Karen and Debra. I do believe that the soul evolves and

> > learns and it takes us many lives before we find the answers. And I

> > also believe that Knowledge is transferred from one soul to another.

> > There comes a point in life when we ask questions. When we ask the

> > right questions the teacher arrives. Perhaps thats when we meet our

> > Guru - our friend, philosopher and guide. And with the help of our

> > Guru we find the answers and the complexities of life become a simple

> > stream of consciousness. And we prepare ourselves for the absolute.

> > > Chris talks about Karma. It reminds me of the Bhagwad Gita when

> > Arjuna refuses to go to battle as he does not want to kill his

> > relatives and the answer Shri Krsna gives him. He makes Arjun realize

> > that he is just an instrument in the hand of the Lord. Can we deny and

> > evade our destiny? On the other hand what about free will? Do we have

> > no choice?

> > > I believe God and Guru both test us in time. Help us to realize

> > ourselves and every situation makes us aware of who we are, why are we

> > here and where we want to go. Eventually all of us want to return to

> > God. There comes a point in time when we finally free ourselves from

> > Maya or illusions and desires and we want to merge with God. But till

> > then we are here to live out our destiny, meet the challenges of life

> > and overcome the obstacles, participate in the creation and

> > destruction, accept the duality of life - in other words walk down the

> > road that will finally take us to our true destination.

> > > Being raised in a Hindu family from Bengal, my mother taught me

> > only one prayer...Ma I offer you all my good karma and I offer you all

> > my bad karma. Free me from both good and bad. I am nothing but an

> > instrument in your hand. Play me.

> > > Love

> > > Mimi

> > >

> > > Debra McDaniel <student61754@> wrote:

> > > Have to agree with you Karen.

> > > Mimi has a point.

> > > I added my thoughts but had to relate to self to come to any

> > conclusion.

> > > Agree with you Mimi, It's all about intentions & how can we're

> > back to judging again.

> > > Thanks for posting, very good.

> > > Debi

> > >

> > > forall10q <forall10q@> wrote:

> > > Thanks, Mimi, for sharing your lovely thoughts. I found your

> > ideas

> > > very soothing to the spirit, and I was happy to read them. You have

> > > a kind and gentle way of presenting thoughts. Makes me sigh, and

> > > say "ahhhh, how sweet." Love and blesssings, Karen

> > >

> > > , mimi spirit

> > > <mimi_female_spirit@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I wouldn't go into purity and impurity. I think what we are

> > > talking about here is intention. There can be no comments on a

> > > situation like a mother wanting her child to be cured or a child's

> > > intention to become a doctor to serve his village. Its just a

> > > perspective - and every perspective is individual and we can only

> > > remain non-judgmental. Our endeavor is to go beyond desire. Pure or

> > > impure is not the point. At the same time we accept that desire

> > > keeps this world evolving. To transcend beyond this world means

> > > giving up all desires. When are we ready for that? When we have

> > > fulfilled our roles on this plane and we are ready to reach out for

> > > a different realm. Why would be here in the first place if we had

> > > fulfilled all our desires? The soul travels and learns from

> > > experience and it makes sense when we say that is not only possible

> > > in one life. The whole point of this journey is to learn, know and

> > > evolve. How do we judge situations or intentions? We can only hope

> > > the prayers

> > > > are heard and the person realizes his or her goals and comes to a

> > > point when he or she can go beyond those desires. Time reveals it

> > > all. And when the time comes the person is ready to go beyond

> > > situations, intentions, purity and impurity.

> > > > Thats my humble understanding..

> > > > Love

> > > > Mimi

> > > >

> > > > Ramya Srinivasan <n_ramya108@> wrote:

> > > > Namaste Everybody,

> > > >

> > > > We were discussing the second Kashyapa sutra this

> > > > weekend. It talks about how our individuality arises

> > > > from our desires. The transcripts are on shreemaa.org

> > > > website.

> > > >

> > > > In your opinion what is a pure desire and what is an

> > > > impure desire?

> > > >

> > > > How would you classify these desires?

> > > >

> > > > Scenario # 1

> > > >

> > > > A young mother's 8 month old baby is very sick and

> > > > hospitalized. She is sitting outside - without eating,

> > > > sleeping and just praying and praying for the good

> > > > health of her child.

> > > >

> > > > Scenario # 2

> > > >

> > > > Raj is studying day and night, literally, to prepare

> > > > for Medical School. It has been his ambition since

> > > > childhood to become a doctor and now he is foregoing

> > > > all other activities to prepare for it. He also knows

> > > > that it will help his family and village if he becomes

> > > > a doctor, as they have no doctors there.

> > > >

> > > > Please do share your thoughts and reasoning, so we can

> > > > all get clarity and understanding! Thank you!

> > > >

> > > > Jai Maa!

> > > >

> > > > ramya

> > > >

> > > > ________

> > > > Sponsored Link

> > > >

> > > > Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career.

> > > > Www.nextag.com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sponsored Link

> > > >

> > > > Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -

> > > Calculate new house payment

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sponsored Link

> > >

> > > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

> > Intro-*Terms

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful

> > email and get things done faster.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful

> email and get things done faster.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/month - Think You Pay Too Much For

Your Mortgage? Find Out!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Babu,

 

You really said a lot! But I think the single greatest impression I

get from your post is how really very fortunate we are, given all the

obstacles life presents, to be able to sit at the feet of our gurudevas.

 

I had to chuckle at your wondering if we really had any choice...It's

a good topic for idle debate (the whole free-will thing), but beyond

that I think I see what you mean.

 

It is no accident that out of all those who could be here, sitting at

the feet of Shree Maa and Swami Satyananda (add here all the names of

all the gurudevas in the world today, and their desciples too - still

a small proportion of all people), it is we who are here. Where else

could we be? Would we have chosen to be someplace else?

 

Given his circumstances, and despite all the doubts and internal

wrangling, could Arjuna have chosen any differently than he did? If he

had would he then have been Arjuna?

 

We are here because this is where we belong, because this is who we

are. Thank God!

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

, "Narayanan" <babuk1008 wrote:

>

> , kandaaran@ wrote:

> > Namastes and JAI MAA >>

> I have been slightly overwhelmed by the torrent of posts, all of

> which are compelling me to add to the fray, since these topics are

> so dear to my heart and so relevant in our daily lives. As much as

> we accept the eternal facts of the utter needs of performing our

> karma, based on our past, present, future, and inherent inbuilt

> nature, we are at times, forced to question the creator of the

> karmas.

> Inasmuch as Arjuna was perplexed at the Kurushetra battleground and

> Krishna succintly pointed out the substratum of our karmas, one

> cannot but dig deeper to find out the absolute = there is no kartha,

> or karya or palan( results ), since in Chpater 12, Krishna boldly

> emphasises that he dwells in the inner "vibhu" heart of that

> devotee, who is without desires or who performs his "duties" with no

> thought of the results. But in modern world, we are still bound by

> certain obligatory deeds, actions, inactions and thought streams,

> which bind us into some unique and unseen order, which are

> underwritten by ethics, history, culture, traditions and constant

> repetition and deep pouring in of abstract feelings on the doership,

> with its concurrent results. The ideas of rewards for work,love and

> hate, wants versus needs, beauty and ugliness, pain and

> sufferings, coupled with the thlousands pairs of opposites in our

> daily and worldly "jeevanas " have darkened our innate concepts of

> purity and clarity. These lead us to the never ending battles of

> maya and vichar without any apparent ends. Goals and desires are

> great guideposts in our inner path of the removal of duality towards

> the shining one-ness with our chosen "ishta devatha" In our current

> forms Shree Maa and Swamiji are also mile markers as we nurture

> the "goals" through our desires. Being an aspirant for perfection

> in all its forms and shapes is a glorious endevour, as long as we

> have the subtle perception of the need to discreetly discriminate

> the purposes of our existence in our present state. If we can

> reiterate the Bhavani Ashtakam of Shankaracharya in our daily lives,

> we could enjoy internal "yoga nidhra" and still subsist in the

> physical form here. To get that strength and occasional glimpses of

> that fleeting "bhava", one strives for our ever present Guru Kripa.

> Thanks to Shree Maa and Swamiji, we have an abundant resource, and

> it is for us to maximize the utilisation. How incredibly fortunate

> are we , in that, amongst the Six and Half Billion in this world, we

> form a tiny, weeny miniscule speck of thought cultivators.. even

> this is due to the ultimate Guru Kripa and Guru Darshana, Did we

> have, really, a Choice!! ??

>

> Jai MAA and namastes.

> babu

> >

> > In a message dated 11/16/2006 3:38:42 P.M. Mountain Standard

> Time,

> > chriskirner1956@ writes:

> >

> > must have an

> > intensity of feeling, a bhaava, and this bhaava must impact our

> > present reality. Don't you think?

> >

> >

> >

> > Namaste Chris

> >

> > Yes and my attempt was to differentiate between it's just karma

> > action-reaction and an example that created a desire to work with

> karma in a more

> > positive way. The mother with the ill child and the doctor.

> From my view both

> > became more spiritually oriented based on past karma.

> >

> > Kanda

> >

> > Om Namah Sivaya

> >

>