How come so few in the west know about Vaishnavism?

[Guest guest]

A Christian ministry trying to expose all "Hindu" sects posted this on their site:

 

"for any Hindu, the aim of this life is to stop the relentless and frightful reincarnation, and become nothingness, not-a-person, but the drop of water in the ocean of the Absolute... for a Christian, an eternal life of joy is waiting, and not like a drop of water, but as a person, recognizable by God and by every neighbor... a person!, an individual!, eternally!, as God is an eternal Person!"

 

This is NOT what millions of Vaishnavas believe. Hello?! It seems that the Christians only know about the Mayavada teachings.. and then they try to slam all "Hindus" (that's what they'd call Gaudiyas too) as Impersonalists and voidists. HOW COME Vaishnava beliefs are only known by a few people in the west? We've obviously failed to make most westerners and Christians ever aware such a belief system as ours even exists.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

I know one devotee in Iskcon, Scotland. (His in A WHEEL CHAIR), he put Bhagavad-gita in Hospitals throughout the Uk.

 

It's not about what 'they' doing, what are WE doing?

What are YOU doing? If you say I can't do anything,

what can I do. That's great means your humble.

(humble people should preach).

[krishnadasa 0]

Spirituality Hmmmmmm.....west Is Dipped In The Materialism ,they Have No Time For The Real Thing

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna!

 

People in the west and people in India (we are getting there...catching up with the west)...and the eastern Asian countries....NONE have time for the REAL thing.

 

I am amazed at how people just go on and on planning to enjoy and then one day...death arrives on the door....it is amazing how they are wasting it....we all should learn and make ourselves more determined seeing karmis that we should not trap ourselves in their position (Maya has Her ways...)

 

To draw a compariosn.....for example, a man has a million dollars (compare million$ to human birth)...and this man instead of using the million dollars for his benefit....just chooses to dump it in the ditch....and we with little knowledge on the value of money and its benefit...seeing this act on a dialy basis will pain us...that is how i see these people wasting their valuable human birth to mundane uselessness....

 

Anyways.....my 2 cents....Yes...people in general do not have time for the REAL THING!

 

I wish...one day....i get the strength to PREACH FEARLESSLY and DISTRIBUTE BOOKS! All Vaishnavas in this FORUM...Please Bless me on this auspicious Radhashtami Day!

 

Haribol!

 

anand

[theist 1]

 

A Christian ministry trying to expose all "Hindu" sects posted this on their site:

 

"for any Hindu, the aim of this life is to stop the relentless and frightful reincarnation, and become nothingness, not-a-person, but the drop of water in the ocean of the Absolute... for a Christian, an eternal life of joy is waiting, and not like a drop of water, but as a person, recognizable by God and by every neighbor... a person!, an individual!, eternally!, as God is an eternal Person!"

 

This is NOT what millions of Vaishnavas believe. Hello?! It seems that the Christians only know about the Mayavada teachings.. and then they try to slam all "Hindus" (that's what they'd call Gaudiyas too) as Impersonalists and voidists. HOW COME Vaishnava beliefs are only known by a few people in the west? We've obviously failed to make most westerners and Christians ever aware such a belief system as ours even exists.

I don't think we can blame this man. This has been the only presentation of hinduism is the west before Srila Prabhupada. We can see that Srila Prabhupada went to great lengths to distinquish Krsna consciousness from this view of Hinduism. Beginning with Vivekananda, Paramahamsa Yogananda and down to current Deepak Chopra all of them are presenting the Mayavadi viewpoint in one way or another.

 

Western educators who have studied Hinduism invariably present impersonalism as being truly Hindu. Some presenters are very popular and seemingly filled with much knowledge on the subject, I am thinking of Joseph Campbell.

 

Even on his board for years there has been a constant stream of Hindu's trying to add their impersonalist views onto Radha Krsna as personal manifestations of the impersonal Brahman.

 

I in fact see this Christian as an ally in theism for speaking out like this. I can imagine Srila Prabhupada being pleased to hear him stand up so strongly for the personal realization of God.

 

And now in the west those that know the truth in this regard but don't speak out in friendly ways to educate people on this point share in the blame.

 

And when we do speak out it is usually the same lotus flower speak that sounds nice but doesn't get the point of monotheism across in clear and unmistakable terms.

 

With this Christian man we could simply tell him in ways that are most acceptable to him Srila Prabhupada's teachings about how Jesus Christ is the pure Son and friend of the One Supreme Lord and how we can be eternally united in our personal relationships with the Lord. I don't say Krsna because they have picked up a prejudice. I say the eternal Father or Jehovah so as to not aggitate their minds. They often will test us asking "well then who is this eternal personal God to you?". I don't mention the Little Blackish-blue cowherd boy named Gopala. I answer that Whoever Lord Jesus Christ prayed to is the only God there is (and that is very true) and leave it there.

 

Do you have a way of getting a message to this minister? If so you may want to educate him a little on the point to help him expand his understanding. If we have this information and don't act then just as you said in your post we are the problem here.

 

You have now clearly identified the problem, our lack of effort. Hopefully we will do better from now on.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

I don't think we can blame this man. This has been the only presentation of hinduism is the west before Srila Prabhupada. We can see that Srila Prabhupada went to great lengths to distinquish Krsna consciousness from this view of Hinduism. Beginning with Vivekananda, Paramahamsa Yogananda and down to current Deepak Chopra all of them are presenting the Mayavadi viewpoint in one way or another.

 

Western educators who have studied Hinduism invariably present impersonalism as being truly Hindu. Some presenters are very popular and seemingly filled with much knowledge on the subject, I am thinking of Joseph Campbell.

 

Even on his board for years there has been a constant stream of Hindu's trying to add their impersonalist views onto Radha Krsna as personal manifestations of the impersonal Brahman.

 

I in fact see this Christian as an ally in theism for speaking out like this. I can imagine Srila Prabhupada being pleased to hear him stand up so strongly for the personal realization of God.

 

And now in the west those that know the truth in this regard but don't speak out in friendly ways to educate people on this point share in the blame.

 

And when we do speak out it is usually the same lotus flower speak that sounds nice but doesn't get the point of monotheism across in clear and unmistakable terms.

 

With this Christian man we could simply tell him in ways that are most acceptable to him Srila Prabhupada's teachings about how Jesus Christ is the pure Son and friend of the One Supreme Lord and how we can be eternally united in our personal relationships with the Lord. I don't say Krsna because they have picked up a prejudice. I say the eternal Father or Jehovah so as to not aggitate their minds. They often will test us asking "well then who is this eternal personal God to you?". I don't mention the Little Blackish-blue cowherd boy named Gopala. I answer that Whoever Lord Jesus Christ prayed to is the only God there is (and that is very true) and leave it there.

 

Do you have a way of getting a message to this minister? If so you may want to educate him a little on the point to help him expand his understanding. If we have this information and don't act then just as you said in your post we are the problem here.

 

You have now clearly identified the problem, our lack of effort. Hopefully we will do better from now on.

 

Your right, if people have this, leave it alone. Because they doing it, so why disturb them? One devotee I heard said, if a devotee is doing something wrong. Then sometimes it's better to let him do it then chastise him. There's a time and a place.

 

I was watching a TV show about religion, and this Christian Women, kept saying Krishna instead of Christ. I think they'll be chanting 'Hare Krishna' in Churches before long. Another time, somebody said Hare Christ, for a joke.

 

Prabhupada has started a revolution! Everybody will be saying Krishna' Name, even our fellow Muslims! hooray!

[Guest guest]

 

I know one devotee in Iskcon, Scotland. (His in A WHEEL CHAIR), he put Bhagavad-gita in Hospitals throughout the Uk.

 

It's not about what 'they' doing, what are WE doing?

What are YOU doing? If you say I can't do anything,

what can I do. That's great means your humble.

(humble people should preach).

 

People who preach without knowing the Truth aren't humble, they're arrogant and assume they know the Truth simply because they were told that so and so is the Truth and everything else is false.

 

A person with real humility will only speak when he KNOWS the Truth, when he has experienced it. And he will only preach about it to those who are receptive to him. He doesn't waste his words on people who are ignorant and prefer to remain ignorant. A person with real humility will also say little but do more, that is, he'll demonstrate his knowledge of the Truth to others so others can understand. He'll be an example of one who knows the Truth so others can see what the Truth really is, and how to know the Truth. A humble person never tries to get others to listen to him, he tries to get others to think and learn about what is Truth, and what is delusion. He doesn't deprive them of their faculty of thought, he encourages them to use that faculty and discriminate to whatever end.

[krishnadasa 0]

May you get in full that what your name say! hari hari bol. May lord fullfill your spiritual desires

[krishnadasa 0]

Guess india as has been named by the sages as Punya bhumi holds a perfect atmo for the spiritual realisation, on the other hand the west which is called a Bhoga bhumi holds the perfect atmo for sensual pleasure . But look at the lord's mercy in this age of kali he has brought the devotion in bhoga bhumi as well.....no wonder when the punya bhumi is turning into a kind of bhoga bhumi isnt it?

 

hari hari bol

[gHari 0]

 

People who preach without knowing the Truth aren't humble, they're arrogant and assume they know the Truth simply because they were told that so and so is the Truth and everything else is false.

 

A person with real humility will only speak when he KNOWS the Truth, when he has experienced it. And he will only preach about it to those who are receptive to him. He doesn't waste his words on people who are ignorant and prefer to remain ignorant. A person with real humility will also say little but do more, that is, he'll demonstrate his knowledge of the Truth to others so others can understand. He'll be an example of one who knows the Truth so others can see what the Truth really is, and how to know the Truth. A humble person never tries to get others to listen to him, he tries to get others to think and learn about what is Truth, and what is delusion. He doesn't deprive them of their faculty of thought, he encourages them to use that faculty and discriminate to whatever end.

Srila Sridhara Gosvami Maharaja spoke about when to preach in SERMON ONE:

 

Srila Sridhara Swami, the renowned commentator of Srimad-Bhagavatam, has stated, sa carpitaiva sati yadi kriyeta, na tu krta sati pascad arpyeta: "Devotional services must be first offered to the Lord, then performed; not performed and offered afterwards."

 

 

We should be already committed when we come to serve, and not that we shall collect capital and later try to utilize it in the service of the Lord. The commitment is to Him, to Krsna. I have come to know about Him for Him, not for me or anyone else. Then, why is there a preaching department for others' benefit? That department exists only because of the instruction from above.

 

 

Only if I receive an impression from that higher quarter, "Go and preach," shall I do so, and only then will my preaching be service, and never if it is done for the name and fame that "I am a good preacher doing good work, etc." I must have engagement from the higher office, and only on their behalf I shall preach; then it will be genuine preaching

. Otherwise, it will be trading. Na sa bhrtyah sa vai vanik: Prahlada Maharaja has warned us against this trading mentality in the name of spiritual truth.

 

[Guest guest]

Of millions of liberated souls only one knows Krsna {God Jehova Allah} in Truth.

Rejoice and be happy if you are one of those aspiring in that direction.

"When I descend in the human form fools deride Me"

What is the time of awakening to the introspective sage is night to those with external material vision.

Don't worry He's keeping an eye on the relative few surrendered souls that are attracted to Mahaprabhu's campaign.

 

He's not in the numbers game, He's got eternity and plenty of patience for them all to come home eventually.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna Prabhu!

 

Please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

Thank you for your blessings!

 

Haribol!

 

anand

[Avinash 0]

Why say anything to a christian? There are many hindus who are not aware of the terms dvaita, advaita etc. but have heard some of the teachings of advaita and they believe that all gurus teach the same. Some of the statements which they often repeat are:-

"Atma hi parmata hai" i.e. soul itself is supersoul.

"Yeh sansar maya hai" i.e.this world is an illusion.

Please note. I am not saying that they prefer advaita to dvaita. Of course such people are also there. But here I am talking of those who think that the teachings of advaita (though they may not know this term) are taught by all masters. They believe that all masters teach the two statements mentioned above.

Then there are some who have read somewhat about both dvaita and advaita. They believe that all masters consider dvaita as intermediate to advaita and that advaita is the ultimate truth. I remember that a few months back I was discussing with one of my colleagues. Here is a gist of the talk that happened between us (translated into English):-

He - All our shastras teach that soul and super soul are one and the same.

Me - That is one school of thought.

He - This is the only school of thought.

Me - There are some people who believe in dvaita and they think differently.

He - Dvaita is just intermediate. Advaita is the ultimate.

Me - But some believe that dvaita is the ultimate truth. They believe that soul and super soul, even though have some similarities, are not identical.

He - If the two are not identical, then when did they become different?

Me - They were always different.

He - It makes no sense.

Me - Why not? It is new to you. That is why it does not make any sense to you.

He - Name one well known guru who believes that soul and super soul are not one.

Me - How about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Ramanujachara, Madhavacharya? There are many more.

He - Are you sure they believed soul and super soul as not identical?

Me - Yes, I am.

He - Then they must be teaching the intermediate things. They thought that people were not ready to accept the ultimate truth.

I told him that his view was incorrect, but he did not agree. He was fully convinced that all those who are considered learnt in shastas believe in the oneness of soul and super soul.

[Guest guest]

You're absolutely right, Avinash. Most people think Dvaita is intermediate and Advaita the ultimate truth. It's because somehow, people are mesmerized by the concept of identity between jiva and Brahman. They're so fascinated by this idea, that they don't even want to admit they could be wrong. It's a frustrating attitude and I've experienced it a million times.

[Guest guest]

There are different types of Advaita as well. Has anyone studied the Paradvaita teachings of Kashmir Shaivism. They consider Advaita a lesser philosophy to Paradvaita.