Romance

[gHari 0]

Srila Prabhupada describes the nature of love in this world:

 

 

"There are sevA-aparAdha, sixty-four kinds of offenses in the service. So we have to become offenseless. Then KRSNa will accept your service. Not by making a show. KRSNa will accept your service when you are sevonmukhe hi jihvAdau svayam eva sphuraty adaH [brs. 1.2.234]. Automatically there will be. As soon as you're purified, automatically KRSNa will appear, immediately. KRSNa will ap... KRSNa is there. Therefore premAJjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaH sadaiva hRdayeSu vilokayanti: [

Bs. 5.38

] "Those who are purified, santaH, saintly persons, they can see KRSNa in every second, every moment." Because they have been purified. After purification, there will be prema, love.

The symptoms of purification is that when you do not love anything except KRSNa, that is purification. We have got our love. So instead of loving KRSNa, we are loving dog, cats and this and that - my country, community, family, nation, so many ways distributed

.

 

 

So when you love KRSNa, automatically you love other thing

. But at the present moment, we do not love KRSNa, only the other things. But love is there. Just like to keep the tree quite fitness, you have to pour water in the root. But if you simply you give up the watering to the root, if you simply water the leaves, twigs, and the branches, then what you will get? Naturally there will be declination of the tree, automatically. If you do not give food to the stomach and if you supply food to the eyes, to the ears, to the... Then what will be your health? Similarly, so long we do not love KRSNa, then whatever those so-called love we are showing to the society, friendship and love and country and community, they are all futile. Therefore, in spite of so much advancement of so-called civilization, there is no love between one another.

You try to love KRSNa. Then everything will be perfect

.

 

 

Thank you very much".

 

 

[Guest guest]

of cource romance is sacred, God made man and woman, and we are part and parcel of God, man is Krsna and woman Radha in a relationship and marrige! one should honor and cherrish ones partner! this is love and true romance.. those whom say that is maya is like mayavadis who is afraid of maya.. but the one whom is in love with God and have a partner see the partner as a gift from God..

 

my views arent shared with ISKCON because im a simple mystic, sharing sum views with the vaisnavas..

[Guest guest]

 

Do you cultivate a relationship with your parents? with your wife? or husband? what about your children? If you believe it's wong to cultivate a relationship with your spouse or children, please never get married or have kids. Cultivating relationships is a part of a normal family. Dysfunctional families do not cultivate relationships, and the kids grow up with all kinds of problems because they were never properly loved and care for by their parents.

 

What are you, a professional script writter for Disney Studios? Get real, "normal" people spend their precious human life working hard on relationships only to witness all crumbling in the end. If not by one another's actions, by the hand of fate in the form of disease or death. If you truly love someone, you will not engage that person in romance but in service of the divine. Other teachings than Gaudiya may encourage romance, but they are not as compassionate.

[Guest guest]

 

of cource romance is sacred, God made man and woman, and we are part and parcel of God, man is Krsna and woman Radha in a relationship and marrige! one should honor and cherrish ones partner! this is love and true romance.. those whom say that is maya is like mayavadis who is afraid of maya.. but the one whom is in love with God and have a partner see the partner as a gift from God..

 

my views arent shared with ISKCON because im a simple mystic, sharing sum views with the vaisnavas..

 

Your views are not shared with ISKCON and all the vaisnava world. But don't worry, you are not the first to try introducing such things in to vaisnavism from time to time. Simple mystics and some not so simple have tried to spread the notion that man is krsna and woman is radha in a relationship - its has been known throughout history as shajiyaism. Such relationships were indeed sprung from the less sophisticated strata of society. Vaisnavism teaches that we are not man or woman but sac-cid-ananda, eternal consciouss beings in blissful, loving relationship with God. Only presently covered by maya in mundane relationships. Vaisnavas are not afraid of maya, just not interested in this world. When one experiences a higher taste, one automatically gives up lesser interests.

[Guest guest]

 

If I am not mistaken, the topic of this thread is "romance".

 

If somebody doesn't believe in it and has a problem with it, then why don't they start a topic called "atmarama" and espouse their "I am an island" conceptions there instead of spoiling the topic about romance?

 

The topic is "romance endorsed by hindu sects". The issue of making a clear distinction between gaudiya vaisnavism and hindu religions [that endorse romance in this world] is a very important one. Gaudiya vaisnavism does NOT endorse romance other than between Krsna and his gopis/wives. Sarasvati Bhaktisidhanta was quoted from what is now the introduction to and edition of Gita Govinda. Such presentation here may be misleading as to indicate Saraswati Thakur supporting romance in human society. Such is not a fact.

[Guest guest]

 

Sex is not for procreation only - it is also for emotional bonding between husband and wife. In marriage, we become One Flesh, and the marriage bed is sacred.

 

If sex were for procreation only, this would mean married couples who can't have children for fertility reasons can't have normal marriage relations. They would never be able to consumate their marriage. An absurdity.

 

Stating sex is just for baby-making, makes sex some lifeless, mechanical act, with no love involved. I don't know anyone who goes about getting intimate with their wife, with such a clinical attitude.

 

To make married couples try to feel shameful for engaging in normal sexual relations, is wrong.

 

You are talking about sex, not love.

 

Sometimes sex results in accidental babymaking and consequent institutionalized babykilling, all in the name of love. But baby does not get the love.

 

Couples vow eternal love but may fall out of love or abuse each other in some way. Such things do happen more than happy ever afters. Love is sacred, sex is mundane.

[Guest guest]

 

Perhaps if you didn't shut your heart off to human love, you'd feel it more.

 

Perhaps its out of overflowing joy you are here on the internet to tell all about the deep love experienced between you and your espouse?

[Guest guest]

The anti-cupids on here, are telling people to not be in-love with their wives. This is the craziest advice anyone would give a married couple.

 

Sex in marriage is to be about making love, not cheap thrills, like visiting a hooker. Sex is more than a physical act, it is emotional bonding between 2 souls. That's why these 2 souls should be committed to one another before they consumate the relationship.

 

Try courting a girl, without any romance, and see how far that gets you. If there is no spark or love between you, there is no reason to get married. Marriage is not just some 'business' arrangement. It is suppose to be built on the foundation of love and committment between two souls.

 

The Christians and Jews teach that sex life in marriage is a beautiful gift of God, given for husbands and wives to come together in sacred union. Are we to believe the Christians are actually above the Hindus in understanding on this issue? I think not.

 

In Indian wisdom teachings, for example in Ayurveda, healthy sex life is known to be a balanced way of living. This is why today many westerners turn to India for knowledge in this area of sacred sexuality and balanced living.. so this should answer the original posters question.

[Guest guest]

 

The topic is "romance endorsed by hindu sects". The issue of making a clear distinction between gaudiya vaisnavism and hindu religions [that endorse romance in this world] is a very important one.

 

The original poster mentioned nothing about Gaudiyas. He is probably already aware that Gaudiyas think sex is unhealthy or dirty, and wanted to find if all Hindu sects hold this extreme teaching - which they do not.

 

Just because this board is filled with Gaudiyas, does not mean they speak for the 1 billion Hindus in the world. Most Indian couples do have healthy sex life, although they keep these details private. Indians are modest, but not naive.

[Guest guest]

 

Your views are not shared with ISKCON and all the vaisnava world. But don't worry, you are not the first to try introducing such things in to vaisnavism from time to time. Simple mystics and some not so simple have tried to spread the notion that man is krsna and woman is radha in a relationship - its has been known throughout history as shajiyaism. Such relationships were indeed sprung from the less sophisticated strata of society. Vaisnavism teaches that we are not man or woman but sac-cid-ananda, eternal consciouss beings in blissful, loving relationship with God. Only presently covered by maya in mundane relationships. Vaisnavas are not afraid of maya, just not interested in this world. When one experiences a higher taste, one automatically gives up lesser interests.

 

i forgot to say that i mean we should treat wife as radha and wife treat her man as krsna.. not that we are krsna and radha.. when i got married my siksa guru told me that we should treat eachother as radha and krsna.. that what i meant..

[Guest guest]

The ancient Ayurvedic text of Charaka Samhita provided complete sexual solutions over 3000 years ago

 

According to Ayurveda Teachings:

 

Sex is an integral part of our daily habits (Dinacharya).

 

Night and after two hours of dinner is the ideal time for intimacy, as it is kapha time.

 

An absolutely satisfying sexual union, when developed over time, bestows you and your partner with health and vitality.

 

For best results, each of the partners should be physically, emotionally and spiritually involved with the other.

 

Touch, smell, food, music and ambience play a vital role in developing, increasing and prolonging intimacy.

 

Perverted or unsatisfying sex has adverse effects on your mental and physical health, as it aggravates your vital energies (doshas) and reduces immunity. An aggravated vata will make you more emotionally vulnerable

and fear-prone, increased pitta will move you to anger and even frustration and enhanced kapha will make you more possessive.

 

The frequency of sex depends on your constitution and seasons - kapha types indulge in sex more frequently than your vata & pitta types thanks to the extra stamina they possess.

[Guest guest]

 

The original poster mentioned nothing about Gaudiyas. He is probably already aware that Gaudiyas think sex is unhealthy or dirty, and wanted to find if all Hindu sects hold this extreme teaching - which they do not.

 

Just because this board is filled with Gaudiyas, does not mean they speak for the 1 billion Hindus in the world. Most Indian couples do have healthy sex life, although they keep these details private. Indians are modest, but not naive.

 

This is the last time I am going to explain why I mentioned gaudiyas: SOMEONE POSTED IN THIS THREAD AN ENTIRE ARTICLE BY BHAKTISIDHANTA SARASWATI, A GAUDIYA. THERE IS NO COMMENT ON THE CONTENTS OF THE ARTICLE BY THE POSTER, BUT IT IS THERE NEVERTHELESS. SARASWATI'S WORDS SHOULD NOT BE USED AS TO MEAN THAT HE ADVOCATED ROMANCE IN THIS WORLD.

[Kripamoya 0]

 

This is the last time I am going to explain why I mentioned gaudiyas: SOMEONE POSTED IN THIS THREAD AN ENTIRE ARTICLE BY BHAKTISIDHANTA SARASWATI, A GAUDIYA. THERE IS NO COMMENT ON THE CONTENTS OF THE ARTICLE BY THE POSTER, BUT IT IS THERE NEVERTHELESS. SARASWATI'S WORDS SHOULD NOT BE USED AS TO MEAN THAT HE ADVOCATED ROMANCE IN THIS WORLD.

 

Says who?

Says YOU!

 

However, if Bhaktivinode Thakur had not been romantically involved with his wife, Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami would never have been born.

 

If Gaura Mohan De had not been romantically involved with his wife, Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Swami would never have been born.

 

Don't blaspheme romance.

without romance the world would be vacant of human beings.

[Guest guest]

Jai Romance!

[Guest guest]

 

without romance the world would be vacant of human beings.

 

So romance should be for procreation of Krsna Concious progeny.

[Kripamoya 0]

 

So romance should be for procreation of Krsna Concious progeny.

Yes - in a perfect world with a perfect society of perfect people.

 

are you perfect?

 

If you are, then you are the first perfect human being in history.

[Guest guest]

 

Yes - in a perfect world with a perfect society of perfect people.

 

Yes! Vaikuntha!

[Guest guest]

 

So romance should be for procreation of Krsna Concious progeny.

 

arent the sex for getting children and the raising for getting them God con.?

[Kripamoya 0]

Most of Mahaprabhu's devotees were householders who were all romantically involved with their wives.

 

A very small percentage of them were ascetics without any romance in their lives.

 

To base the movement on the standards of the most extreme ascetics who made up a small percentage of gaudiya Vaishnavism IS NOT a practical approach.

 

There is a time and place for detachment and rununciation.

Trying to make it the standard for all devotees at all times is ridiculous.

[Guest guest]

romance and love is for the more mature devoutees, the neophytes are more afraid and think that it is dirty.. when they grow up they will share our view..

[Guest guest]

 

Says who?

Says YOU!

 

However, if Bhaktivinode Thakur had not been romantically involved with his wife, Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami would never have been born.

 

If Gaura Mohan De had not been romantically involved with his wife, Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Swami would never have been born.

 

Don't blaspheme romance.

without romance the world would be vacant of human beings.

 

Your posts are a breathe of fresh air. Always sensible and balanced.

 

Romance is a natural part of life for the householder and the family stage of life.

 

Some people may need to brush up on the birds and the bees. It's not possible to procreate unless one is romantically attracted to the person. Afterall, Babies don't come from storks.

 

A man can't "know" a woman in the biblical sense, unless there is something that attracts them to the woman. I expected most of us covered this in 7th grade sex ed, but perhaps time for some to take a refresher course.

 

Hopefully in marriage sex is more than a chore - there should be some love in the act. But some would like to make it some sort of dry act, where one grudingly "knows" their wife, with the soul purpose of impregnating her, and keeping her barefoot and in the kitchen.

[Kripamoya 0]

Kamadeva (Cupid) took birth in Krishna-lila as Pradyumna who was the son of Rukmini.

 

Padyumna had features that exactly resembled his Dad - Krishna.

[Kripamoya 0]

Bhaktivedanta purport of the Fifty-fifth Chapter of Krsna, "Pradyumna Born to Krsna and Rukmini

 

 

It is said that Cupid, who is directly part and parcel of Lord Vasudeva and who was formerly burned to ashes by the anger of Lord Siva, took birth in the womb of Rukmini begotten by Krsna. This is Kamadeva, a demigod of the heavenly planets especially capable of inducing lusty desires. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, has many grades of parts and parcels, but the quadruple expansions of Krsna--Vasudeva, Sankarsana, Pradyumna and Aniruddha--are directly in the Visnu category. Kama, or the Cupid demigod, who later on took his birth in the womb of Rukmini, was also named Pradyumna, but he cannot be the Pradyumna of the Visnu category. He belongs to the category of jiva-tattva, but for special power in the category of demigods, he was a part and parcel of the super prowess of Pradyumna. That is the verdict of the Gosvamis. Therefore, when Cupid was burned into ashes by the anger of Lord Siva, he merged into the body of Vasudeva, and in order to get his body again, he was begotten by Lord Krsna Himself; he was directly released from his body in the womb of Rukmini and was born as the son of Krsna, celebrated by the name Pradyumna. Because he was begotten by Lord Krsna directly, his qualities were most similar to those of Krsna.

 

There was a demon of the name Sambara who was destined to be killed by this Pradyumna. The Sambara demon knew of his destiny, and as soon as he learned that Pradyumna was born, he took the shape of a woman and kidnapped the baby from the maternity home less than ten days after his birth. The demon took him and threw him directly into the sea. But, as it is said, "Whoever is protected by Krsna, no one can kill; and whoever is destined to be killed by Krsna, no one can protect." When Pradyumna was thrown into the sea, a big fish immediately swallowed him. Later on this fish was caught by the net of a fisherman, and the fish was later on sold to the Sambara demon. In the kitchen of the demon there was a maidservant whose name was Mayavati. This woman had formerly been the wife of Cupid, and had been called Rati. When the fish was presented to the demon Sambara, it was taken charge of by his cook, who was to make it into a palatable fish preparation. Demons and the Raksasas are accustomed to eat meat, fish and similar non-vegetarian foods. Similarly, other demons, like Ravana, Kamsa and Hiranyakasipu, although born of brahmana and ksatriya fathers, used to take meat and flesh without discrimination. This practice is still prevalent in India, and those who are meat and fish eaters are generally called demons and Raksasas.

 

When the cook was cutting the fish, he found a nice baby within the belly of the fish, and he immediately presented him to the charge of Mayavati, who was an assistant in the kitchen affairs. This woman was surprised to see how such a nice baby could remain within the belly of a fish, and the situation perplexed her. The great sage Narada then appeared and explained to her about the birth of Pradyumna, how the baby had been taken away by Sambara and later on thrown into the sea, and so on. In this way the whole story was disclosed to Mayavati, who had formerly been Rati, the wife of Cupid. Mayavati knew that she had previously been the wife of Cupid; after her husband was burned into ashes by the wrath of Lord Siva, she was always expecting him to come back again in the material form. This woman was engaged for cooking rice and dhal in the kitchen, but when she got this nice baby and understood that he was Cupid, her own husband, she naturally took charge of him and with great affection began to bathe him. Miraculously, the baby very swiftly grew up, and within a very short period he became a very beautiful young man. His eyes were just like the petals of lotus flowers, his arms were very long, down to the knees, and any woman who happened to see him became captivated by his bodily beauty.

 

Mayavati could understand that her former husband, Cupid, born as Pradyumna, had grown into such a nice young man, and she also gradually became captivated and lusty. She was smiling before him with a feminine attractiveness, expressing her desire for sexual unity. He therefore inquired from her, "How is it possible that first of all you were affectionate like a mother, and now you are expressing the symptoms of a lusty woman? What is the reason for such a change?" On hearing this statement from Pradyumna, the woman, Rati, replied, "My dear sir, you are the son of Lord Krsna. Before you were ten days old, you were stolen by the Sambara demon and later on thrown into the water and swallowed up by a fish. In this way you have come under my care, but actually, in your former life as Cupid, I was your wife; therefore, my manifestation of conjugal symptoms is not at all incompatible. Sambara wanted to kill you, and he is endowed with various kinds of mystic powers. Therefore, before he again attempts to kill you, please kill him as soon as possible with your divine power. Since you were stolen by Sambara, your mother, Rukmini-devi, has been in a very grievous condition, like a cuckoo bird who has lost her babies. She is very affectionate toward you, and since you have been taken away from her, she has been living like a cow aggrieved over the loss of its calf."

 

Mayavati had mystic knowledge of supernatural power. Supernatural powers are generally known as maya, and to supersede all such supernatural power there is another supernatural power which is called mahamaya. Mayavati had the knowledge of the mystic power of mahamaya, and she delivered to Pradyumna this specific energetic power in order to defeat the mystic powers of the Sambara demon. Thus being empowered by his wife, Pradyumna immediately went before Sambara and challenged him to fight. Pradyumna began to address him in very strong language, so that his temper might be agitated and he would be moved to fight. At Pradyumna's words, the demon Sambara, being insulted, felt just like a snake feels after being struck by one's leg. A serpent cannot tolerate being kicked by another animal or by a man, and he immediately bites the opponent.

 

Sambara felt the words of Pradyumna as if they were a kick. He immediately took his club in his hand and appeared before Pradyumna to fight. In great anger, he began to beat Pradyumna with his club, just as a thunderbolt beats a mountain. The demon was also groaning and making a noise like a thundering cloud. Pradyumna protected himself with his own club, and eventually he struck the demon very severely. In this way, the fighting between Sambarasura and Pradyumna began very seriously.

 

But Sambarasura knew the art of mystic powers and could raise himself in the sky and fight from outer space. There is another demon of the name Maya, and Sambarasura learned many mystic powers from him. He thus raised himself high in the sky and began to threw various types of nuclear weapons at the body of Pradyumna. In order to combat the mystic powers of Sambarasura, Pradyumna remembered another mystic power, known as mahavidya, which was different from the black mystic power. The mahavidya mystic power is based on the quality of goodness. Understanding that his enemy was formidable, Sambara took assistance from various kinds of demoniac mystic powers belonging to the Guhyakas, the Gandharvas, the Pisacas, the snakes and the Raksasas. But although the demon exhibited his mystic powers and took shelter of supernatural strength, Pradyumna was able to counteract his strength and powers by the superior power of mahavidya. When Sambarasura was defeated in every respect, Pradyumna then took his sharpened sword and immediately cut off the demon's head, which was decorated with a helmet and with valuable jewels. When Pradyumna thus killed the demon, all the demigods in the higher planetary systems began to showered flowers on him.

 

Pradyumna's wife, Mayavati, could travel in outer space, and therefore they directly reached his father's capital, Dvaraka, by the airways. They passed above the palace of Lord Krsna and began to come down as a cloud comes down with lightning. The inner section of a palace is known as antahpura (private apartments). Pradyumna and Mayavati could see that there were many women there, and they sat down among them. When the women saw Pradyumna, dressed in bluish garments, with very long arms, curling hair, beautiful eyes, a smiling reddish face, jewelry and ornaments, they first of all could not recognize him as Pradyumna, a personality different from Krsna. They all felt themselves to be very much blessed by the sudden presence of Krsna, and they wanted to hide in a different corner of the palace.

 

When the women saw, however, that all the characteristics of Krsna were not present in the personality of Pradyumna, out of curiosity they came back again to see him and his wife, Mayavati. All of them were conjecturing as to who he was, for he was so beautiful. Among the women was Rukmini-devi, who was equally beautiful, with her lotus-like eyes. Seeing Pradyumna, she naturally remembered her own son, and milk began to flow from her breast out of motherly affection. She then began to wonder, "Who is this beautiful young boy? He appears to be the most beautiful person. Who is the fortunate young woman able to give birth to this nice boy in her womb and become his mother? And who is that young woman who has accompanied him? How have they met? Remembering my own son, who was stolen even from the maternity home, I can only guess that if he is living somewhere, he might have grown by this time to be like this boy." Simply by intuition, Rukmini could understand that Pradyumna was her own lost son. She could also observe that Pradyumna resembled Lord Krsna in every respect. She was struck with wonder as to how he acquired all the symptoms of Krsna. She therefore began to think more confidently that the boy must be her own grown-up son because she felt much affection for him, and, as an auspicious sign, her left arm was trembling.

 

At that very moment, Lord Krsna, along with His father and mother, Devaki and Vasudeva, appeared on the scene. Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, could understand everything, yet in that situation He remained silent. However, by the desire of Lord Sri Krsna, the great sage Narada also appeared on the scene, and he began to disclose all the incidents--how Pradyumna had been stolen from the maternity home and how he had grown up and had come there with his wife Mayavati, who formerly had been Rati, the wife of Cupid. When everyone was informed of the mysterious disappearance of Pradyumna and how he had grown up, they all became struck with wonder because they had gotten back their dead son after they were almost hopeless of his return. When they understood that it was Pradyumna who was present, they began to receive him with great delight. One after another, all of the members of the family--Devaki, Vasudeva, Lord Sri Krsna, Lord Balarama, and Rukmini and all the women of the family--began to embrace both Pradyumna and his wife Mayavati. When the news of Pradyumna's return was spread all over the city of Dvaraka, all the astonished citizens began to come with great anxiety to see the lost Pradyumna. They began to say, "The dead son has come back. What can be more pleasing than this?"

 

Srila Sukadeva Gosvami has explained that, in the beginning, all the residents of the palace, who were all mothers and stepmothers of Pradyumna, mistook him to be Krsna and were all bashful, infected by the desire for conjugal love. The explanation is that Pradyumna's personal appearance is exactly like Krsna's, and he was factually Cupid himself. There was no cause of astonishment, therefore, when the mothers of Pradyumna and other women mistook him in that way. It is clear from the statement that Pradyumna's bodily characteristics were so similar to Krsna's that he was mistaken to be Krsna even by his mother.

 

Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Fifty-fifth Chapter of Krsna, "Pradyumna Born to Krsna and Rukmini."

[Guest guest]

 

Your posts are a breathe of fresh air. Always sensible and balanced.

 

Kshmabuddhi sensible and balanced? What in the world are people inhaling these days?

[Kripamoya 0]

 

Kshmabuddhi sensible and balanced? What in the world are people inhaling these days?

 

you don't know me.

maybe you think you know something about me, but really you don't have a clue.

 

My lovely wife thinks I am balanced.

that's good enough for me.