Narayana Maharaja and Higher Teachings

[Guest guest]

I have some questions that maybe some of the followers of Narayana Maharaja can answer on this forum.

 

My first question is in regards to this teaching of Narayana Maharaja I found on his website.

 

 

"Sastriya sadhu-sanga is proper. In other words, in the beginning stage of one’s sadhana, a sadhaka must keep himself confined within the standards of vaidhi-bhakti set by sadhus in sastra. Afterwards, for the purpose of bhajana-siksa, one is at liberty for sadhu-sanga. When one reaches the higher stage of raganuga bhajana, then he can approach a svajatiya-asya-snigdha sadhu* for bhajana-siksa and perform his bhajana under his guidance and instructions, which may be independent from the norms of any sastra.

 

I would like to know what is bhajan-siksha, raganuga bhakti and where to find a svajatiya-asya-snigdha sadhu for learning about these things?

 

Is this in regards to my spiritual identity and rasa with Krishna?

 

And, where can I find supporting statements that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati and Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada also taught the necessity of these things that were given by Srila Rupa Goswami?

 

Specifically, I want to learn more about raganuga-bhakti, bhajan siksha etc.

 

And where does this fit in with the teachings of Srila Saraswati Goswami as

 

 

pujala raga patha gaurava bhange [raga marga, higher rasa, should always be kept over our head as worshipable; we are to serve the higher plane, not to try and enter there or to bring it down to this plane; we should always stay one step lower; if we try to look direct, it will vanish]

B.R. Sridhar Maharaja

 

[Guest guest]

Narayana Maharaja said;

 

which may be independent from the norms of any sastra

 

But, I would like to know if it can be independent of the instructions of the spiritual master to a specific section of devotees?

[Guest guest]

Narayana Maharaja said;

 

Afterwards, for the purpose of bhajana-siksa, one is at liberty for sadhu-sanga.

 

This "liberty for sadhu sanga" - is it acceptable even if the diksha-guru and the siksha guru have forbidden the disciple to adopt the path of raganuga-bhakti according to the "traditional" school?

 

Raganuga-bhakti, according to the "traditonal" parivars, says that one should hear of the eakadasa-bhava (siddha-deha)

(1) nama – name of a manjari;

(2) rupa (varna) – form (complexion);

(3) vayas – age;

(4) vesa – color of cloth;

(5) sambandha – relationship;

(6) yutha – group (of a certain sakhi);

(7) ajna – order;

(8) seva – service;

(9) parakastha – highest aspiration;

(10) palyadasi-bhava – the mood of a maintained maidservant;

(11) nivasa – residence.

 

So, why didn't Swami Prabhupada give these things to his disciples?

 

Why has he left the traditional process of the raganuga school?

[Guest guest]

Narayana Maharaja seems to be advocating these things:

 

When one reaches the higher stage of raganuga bhajana, then he can approach a svajatiya-asya-snigdha sadhu* for bhajana-siksa and perform his bhajana under his guidance and instructions,

 

Is this bhajan siksha the instructions regarding this ekadasa-bhava:

 

(1) nama – name of a manjari;

(2) rupa (varna) – form (complexion);

(3) vayas – age;

(4) vesa – color of cloth;

(5) sambandha – relationship;

(6) yutha – group (of a certain sakhi);

(7) ajna – order;

(8) seva – service;

(9) parakastha – highest aspiration;

(10) palyadasi-bhava – the mood of a maintained maidservant;

(11) nivasa – residence.

 

Generally, bhajan siksha is considered to be these things.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Narayana Maharaja said;

 

 

This "liberty for sadhu sanga" - is it acceptable even if the diksha-guru and the siksha guru have forbidden the disciple to adopt the path of raganuga-bhakti according to the "traditional" school?

 

Raganuga-bhakti, according to the "traditonal" parivars, says that one should hear of the eakadasa-bhava (siddha-deha)

(1) nama – name of a manjari;

(2) rupa (varna) – form (complexion);

(3) vayas – age;

(4) vesa – color of cloth;

(5) sambandha – relationship;

(6) yutha – group (of a certain sakhi);

(7) ajna – order;

(8) seva – service;

(9) parakastha – highest aspiration;

(10) palyadasi-bhava – the mood of a maintained maidservant;

(11) nivasa – residence.

 

So, why didn't Swami Prabhupada give these things to his disciples?

 

Why has he left the traditional process of the raganuga school?

 

I don't think you could name a disicple of Narayana Maharaja whom He has given this to, and I don't think you would find out either. Whos going to tell you.?

[Guest guest]

 

I don't think you could name a disicple of Narayana Maharaja whom He has given this to, and I don't think you would find out either. Whos going to tell you.?

No matter, this kind of teaching opens the door and some disciples might take this as a license to go to Radha-kunda and take 'bhajan-siksha" from some babaji there........just like his disciple Atul Krishna das did and then rejected Narayana Maharaja to become a disciple of a babaji at Radha-kunda and get his

"ekadasa-bhava" (gopi identity) so he coudld practice raganuga-bhakti.

 

Narayana Maharaja himself left the Matha of his spiritual master to take this "bhajan-siksha" from a babaji at Radha-kinda, until some of the other members of the Gaudiya Matha went there to take him out and bring him back to the Matha of his guru maharaja.

 

This is fact and this is history.

 

Is it wrong to tell the truth about history and where Narayana Maharaja got his "raganuga" training?

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

No matter, this kind of teaching opens the door and some disciples might take this as a license to go to Radha-kunda and take 'bhajan-siksha" from some babaji there........just like his disciple Atul Krishna das did and then rejected Narayana Maharaja to become a disciple of a babaji at Radha-kunda and get his

"ekadasa-bhava" (gopi identity) so he coudld practice raganuga-bhakti.

 

Narayana Maharaja himself left the Matha of his spiritual master to take this "bhajan-siksha" from a babaji at Radha-kinda, until some of the other members of the Gaudiya Matha went there to take him out and bring him back to the Matha of his guru maharaja.

 

This is fact and this is history.

 

Is it wrong to tell the truth about history and where Narayana Maharaja got his "raganuga" training?

 

 

Narayana Maharaja took all of His Siksa from His Spiritual Masters (Bhakti Prajna Keshva Goswami Maharaja) and Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. So it's NOT a fact. There is a quote somewhere in His Books but I will have to look for it. And I also heard this on a Video Lecture. I think some devotees may have that quote.

 

This maybe close enough:

Visvarupa Mahotsava and the Sannyasa Ceremony of Srila BV Swami Prabhupada

He (referring to Srila Prabhupada) never made any compromise, especially with the babajis of Radha-kunda who speak sahajiya philosophy. He was like my Gurudeva and his Prabhupada. Nowadays, however, so many are going to Radha-kunda and taking babaji-vesa (the dress, mood, and behavior of the babajis) from the babajis who are not actually following Mahaprabhu. So many ISKCON members are also doing this. What becomes of them? They also become like those bogus babajis So we should try to be like Srila Swami Maharaja and follow his process, line and instruction.

http://www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20040928.shtml

--

 

As you can see, Narayana Maharaja took Siksa from Srila Prabhupada AND Bhakti Prajnana Keshva Maharaja. So basically what you said is a rumour or misconception.

[Puru_Das 0]

 

No matter, this kind of teaching opens the door and some disciples might take this as a license to go to Radha-kunda and take 'bhajan-siksha" from some babaji there........just like his disciple Atul Krishna das did and then rejected Narayana Maharaja to become a disciple of a babaji at Radha-kunda and get his

"ekadasa-bhava" (gopi identity) so he coudld practice raganuga-bhakti.?

 

 

Atul never did any such thing. He is just keeping a low profile.

 

SBSST and Gaudiya Siddhanta do not reject the ekadasi bhavas, or raganuga bhakti. SBSST cautioned against unqualified individuals accepting such sadhana when their adhikara was insufficient. If you are concerned that any mention of raganuga bhakti as our prayojana, or residing in Radha Kunda are dangerous and might wrongly influence devotees then we will have to tear out the pages in His Divine Grace's Nectar of Instruction for verses 10 and 11.

 

 

 

 

Narayana Maharaja himself left the Matha of his spiritual master to take this "bhajan-siksha" from a babaji at Radha-kinda, until some of the other members of the Gaudiya Matha went there to take him out and bring him back to the Matha of his guru maharaja.

 

This is fact and this is history.

 

Is it wrong to tell the truth about history and where Narayana Maharaja got his "raganuga" training?

 

He factually left the matha to avoid some politics that were manifesting, and simply took residence near Govardhana to do bhajana. He then later returned at the request of his gurudeva, Srila Bhakti Prajnan Kesava Maharaja.

 

History is fine, but distorting perception of actual events to give them a slant which infers that Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja was "influenced" by sahajiya babajis, when he has so vehemently and consistantly opposed their view of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's teachings is not. You can examine:

 

Refutation of the Sahajiya-doctrine

Boycott the Sahajiya Babajis

and read the first essay of:

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="84%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="82%" bgColor=#ccffcc colSpan=2>Five Essential Essays - Prabandha Panchakam</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right width="18%" bgColor=#ccffcc>

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle width="5%"></TD><TD class=inhalttext width="95%" colSpan=2>This exceptional book is a compilation of five different essays which Srila Gurudeva has written over the past 20 years in defense of Gaudiya sampradaya tattva siddhanta. Each refutation is elaborately and conclusively proven with evidence from sastra.

Included in this edition are two lectures by Srila Gurudeva which glorify and follow the example of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada who boldly re-established the true conceptions of Sriman Mahaprabhu and the gosvamis, and began the preaching mission which is today bringing this pure bhakti tattva siddhanta to every country in the world.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Puru_Das 0]

Nectar of Instruction,

the Sri Upadesamrta of Srila Rupa Gosvami

 

TEXT TEN

TEXT

karmibhyah parito hareh priyataya vyaktim yayur jnaninas

tebhyo jnana-vimukta-bhakti-paramah premaika-nisthas tatah

tebhyas tah pasu-pala-pankaja-drsas tabhyo 'pi sa radhika

prestha tadvad iyam tadiya-sarasi tam nasrayet kah krti

SYNONYMS

karmibhyah--than all fruitive workers; paritah--in all respects; hareh--by the Supreme Personality of Godhead; priyataya--because of being favored; vyaktim yayuh--it is said in the sastra; jnaninah--those advanced in knowledge; tebhyah--superior to them; jnana-vimukta--liberated by knowledge; bhakti-paramah--those engaged in devotional service; prema-eka-nisthah--those who have attained pure love of God; tatah--superior to them; tebhyah--better than them; tah--they; pasu-pala-pankaja-drsah--the gopis who are always dependent on Krsna, the cowherd boy; tabhyah--above all of them; api--certainly; sa--She; radhika--Srimati Radhika; prestha--very dear; tadvat--similarly; iyam--this; tadiya-sarasi--Her lake, Sri Radha-kunda; tam--Radha-kunda; na--not; asrayet--would take shelter of; kah--who; krti--most fortunate.

TRANSLATION

In the sastra it is said that of all types of fruitive workers, he who is advanced in knowledge of the higher values of life is favored by the Supreme Lord Hari. Out of many such people who are advanced in knowledge [jnanis], one who is practically liberated by virtue of his knowledge may take to devotional service. He is superior to the others. However, one who has actually attained prema, pure love of Krsna, is superior to him. The gopis are exalted above all the advanced devotees because they are always totally dependent upon Sri Krsna, the transcendental cowherd boy. Among the gopis, Srimati Radharani is the most dear to Krsna. Her kunda [lake] is as profoundly dear to Lord Krsna as this most beloved of the gopis. Who, then, will not reside at Radha-kunda and, in a spiritual body surcharged with ecstatic devotional feelings [aprakrtabhava], render loving service to the divine couple Sri Sri Radha-Govinda, who perform Their astakaliya-lila, Their eternal eightfold daily pastimes. Indeed, those who execute devotional service on the banks of Radha-kunda are the most fortunate people in the universe.

PURPORT

At the present moment almost everyone is engaged in some kind of fruitive activity. Those who are desirous of gaining material profits by working are called karmis, or fruitive workers. All living entities within this material world have come under the spell of maya. This is described in the Visnu Purana (6.7.61):

visnu-saktih para prokta

ksetrajnakhya tatha para

avidya-karma-samjnanya

trtiya saktir isyate

Sages have divided the energies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead into three categories--namely, the spiritual energy, marginal energy and material energy. The material energy is considered to be the third-class energy (trtiya saktih). Those living beings within the jurisdiction of the material energy sometimes engage themselves like dogs and hogs in working very hard simply for sense gratification. However, in this life, or, after executing pious activities, in the next life, some karmis become strongly attracted to performing various kinds of sacrifices mentioned in the Vedas. Thus on the strength of their pious merit, they are elevated to heavenly planets. Actually those who perform sacrifices strictly according to Vedic injunctions are elevated to the moon and planets above the moon. As mentioned in Bhagavad-gita (9.21), ksine punye martya-lokam visanti: after exhausting the results of their so-called pious activities, they again return to the earth, which is called martya-loka, the place of death. Although such persons may be elevated to the heavenly planets by their pious activities and although they may enjoy life there for many thousands of years, they nonetheless must return to this planet when the results of their pious activities are exhausted.

This is the position of all karmis, including those who act piously and those who act impiously. On this planet we find many businessmen, politicians and others who are simply interested in material happiness. They attempt to earn money by all means, not considering whether such means are pious or impious. Such people are called karmis, or gross materialists. Among the karmis are some vikarmis, people who act without the guidance of Vedic knowledge. Those who act on the basis of Vedic knowledge perform sacrifices for the satisfaction of Lord Visnu and to receive benedictions from Him. In this way they are elevated to higher planetary systems. Such karmis are superior to the vikarmis, for they are faithful to the directions of the Vedas and are certainly dear to Krsna. In Bhagavad-gita (4.11), Krsna says: ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham. "In whatever way one surrenders unto Me, I reward him accordingly." Krsna is so kind that He fulfilled the desires of the karmis and jnanis, not to speak of the bhaktas. Although the karmis are sometimes elevated to higher planetary systems, as long as they remain attached to fruitive activities they must accept new material bodies after death. If one acts piously, he can attain a new body among the demigods in the higher planetary systems, or he may attain some other position in which he can enjoy a higher standard of material happiness. On the other hand, those who are engaged in impious activities are degraded and take birth as animals, trees and plants. Thus those fruitive actors who do not care for the Vedic directions (vikarmis) are not appreciated by learned saintly persons. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam (5.5.4):

nunam pramattah kurute vikarma

yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti

na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam

asann api klesada asa dehah

"Materialists who work hard like dogs and hogs simply for sense gratification are actually mad. They simply perform all kinds of abominable activities simply for sense gratification. Materialistic activities are not at all worthy of an intelligent man, for as a result of such activities, one gets a material body, which is full of misery." The purpose of human life is to get out of the threefold miserable conditions, which are concomitant with material existence. Unfortunately, fruitive workers are mad to earn money and acquire temporary material comforts by all means; therefore they risk being degraded to lower species of life. Materialists foolishly make many plans to become happy in this material world. They do not stop to consider that they will live only for a certain number of years, out of which they must spend the major portion acquiring money for sense gratification. Ultimately such activities end in death. Materialists do not consider that after giving up the body they may become embodied as lower animals, plants or trees. Thus all their activities simply defeat the purpose of life. Not only are they born ignorant, but they act on the platform of ignorance, thinking that they are getting material benefits in the shape of skyscraper buildings, big cars, honorable positions and so on. The materialists do not know that in the next life they will be degraded and that all their activities simply serve as parabhava, their defeat. This is the verdict of Srimad-Bhagavatam (5.5.5): parabhavas tavad abodha jatah.

One should therefore be eager to understand the science of the soul (atma-tattva). Unless one comes to the platform of atma-tattva, by which one understands that the soul and not the body is oneself, one remains on the platform of ignorance. Out of thousands and even millions of ignorant people who are wasting their time simply gratifying their senses, one may come to the platform of knowledge and understand higher values of life. Such a person is called a jnani. The jnani knows that fruitive activities will bind him to material existence and cause him to transmigrate from one kind of body to another. As indicated in Srimad-Bhagavatam by the term sarira-bandha (bound to bodily existence), as long as one maintains any conception of sense enjoyment, his mind will be absorbed in karma, fruitive activity, and this will oblige him to transmigrate from one body to another.

Thus a jnani is considered superior to a karmi because he at least refrains from the blind activities of sense enjoyment. This is the verdict of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. However, although a jnani may be liberated from the ignorance of the karmis, unless he comes to the platform of devotional service he is still considered to be in ignorance (avidya). Although one may be accepted as a jnani, or one advanced in knowledge, his knowledge is considered impure because he has no information of devotional service and thus neglects the direct worship of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

When a jnani takes to devotional service, he rapidly becomes superior to an ordinary jnani. Such an advanced person is described as jnana-vimukta-bhakti-parama. How a jnani takes to devotional service is mentioned in Bhagavad-gita (7.19), wherein Krsna says:

bahunam janmanam ante

jnanavan mam prapadyate

vasudevah sarvam iti

sa mahatma sudurlabhah

"After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare." Actually a person is wise when he surrenders unto the lotus feet of Krsna, but such a mahatma, great soul, is very rare.

After taking to devotional service under the regulative principles, a person may come to the platform of spontaneous love of Godhead, following in the footsteps of great devotees like Narada and Sanaka and Sanatana. The Supreme Personality of Godhead then recognizes him to be superior. The devotees who have developed love of Godhead are certainly in an exalted position.

Of all these devotees, the gopis are recognized as superior because they do not know anything other than satisfying Krsna. Nor do the gopis expect any return from Krsna. Indeed, sometimes Krsna puts them into extreme suffering by separating Himself from them. Nonetheless, they cannot forget Krsna. When Krsna left Vrndavana for Mathura, the gopis became most dejected and spent the rest of their lives simply crying in separation from Krsna. This means that in one sense they were never actually separated from Krsna. There is no difference between thinking of Krsna and associating with Him. Rather, vipralambha-seva, thinking of Krsna in separation, as Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did, is far better than serving Krsna directly. Thus of all the devotees who have developed unalloyed devotional love for Krsna, the gopis are most exalted, and out of all these exalted gopis, Srimati Radharani is the highest. No one can excel the devotional service of Srimati Radharani. Indeed, even Krsna cannot understand the attitude of Srimati Radharani; therefore He took Her position and appeared as Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, just to understand Her transcendental feelings.

In this way Srila Rupa Gosvami gradually concludes that Srimati Radharani is the most exalted devotee of Krsna and that Her kunda (lake), Sri Radha-kunda, is the most exalted place. This is verified in a quotation from Laghu-bhagavatamrta (Uttara-khanda 45), as quoted in Caitanya-caritamrta:

yatha radha priya visnos

tasyah kundam priyam tatha

sarva-gopisu saivaika

visnor atyanta-vallabha

"Just as Srimati Radharani is dear to the Supreme Lord Krsna [Visnu], so Her bathing place [Radha-kunda] is equally dear to Krsna. Among all the gopis, She alone stands supreme as the Lord's most beloved."

Therefore everyone interested in Krsna consciousness should ultimately take shelter of Radha-kunda and execute devotional service there throughout one's life. This is the conclusion of Rupa Gosvami in the tenth verse of Upadesamrta.

TEXT ELEVEN

TEXT

krsnasyoccaih pranaya-vasatih preyasibhyo 'pi radha

kundam casya munibhir abhitas tadrg eva vyadhayi

yat presthair apy alam asulabham kim punar bhakti-bhajam

tat premedam sakrd api sarah snatur aviskaroti

SYNONYMS

krsnasya--of Lord Sri Krsna; uccaih--very highly; pranaya-vasatih--object of love; preyasibhyah--out of the many lovable gopis; api--certainly; radha--Srimati Radharani; kundam--lake; ca--also; asyah--of Her; munibhih--by great sages; abhitah--in all respects; tadrk eva--similarly; vyadhayi--is described; yat--which; presthaih--by the most advanced devotees; api--even; alam--enough; asulabham--difficult to obtain; kim--what; punah--again; bhakti-bhajam--for persons engaged in devotional service; tat--that; prema--love of Godhead; idam--this; sakrt--once; api--even; sarah--lake; snatuh--of one who has bathed; aviskaroti--arouses.

TRANSLATION

Of the many objects of favored delight and of all the lovable damsels of Vrajabhumi, Srimati Radharani is certainly the most treasured object of Krsna's love. And, in every respect, Her divine kunda is described by great sages as similarly dear to Him. Undoubtedly Radha-kunda is very rarely attained even by the great devotees; therefore it is even more difficult for ordinary devotees to attain. If one simply bathes once within those holy waters, one's pure love of Krsna is fully aroused.

PURPORT

Why is Radha-kunda so exalted? The lake is so exalted because it belongs to Srimati Radharani, who is the most beloved object of Sri Krsna. Among all the gopis, She is the most beloved. Similarly, Her lake, Sri Radha-kunda, is also described by great sages as the lake that is as dear to Krsna as Radha Herself. Indeed, Krsna's love for Radha-kunda and Srimati Radharani is the same in all respects. Radha-kunda is very rarely attained, even by great personalities fully engaged in devotional service, not to speak of ordinary devotees who are only engaged in the practice of vaidhi bhakti.

It is stated that a devotee will at once develop pure love of Krsna in the wake of the gopis if he once takes a bath in Radha-kunda. Srila Rupa Gosvami recommends that even if one cannot live permanently on the banks of Radha-kunda, he should at least take a bath in the lake as many times as possible. This is a most important item in the execution of devotional service. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes in this connection that Sri Radha-kunda is the most select place for those interested in advancing their devotional service in the wake of the lady friends (sakhis) and confidential serving maids (manjaris) of Srimati Radharani. Living entities who are eager to return home to the transcendental kingdom of God, Goloka Vrndavana, by means of attaining their spiritual bodies (siddha-deha) should live at Radha-kunda, take shelter of the confidential serving maids of Sri Radha

and under their direction engage constantly in Her service. This is the most exalted method for those engaged in devotional service under the protection of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. In this connection Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura writes that even great sages and great devotees like Narada and Sanaka do not get an opportunity to come to Radha-kunda to take their baths. What, then, to speak of ordinary devotees? If, by great fortune, one gets an opportunity to come to Radha-kunda and bathe even once, he can develop his transcendental love for Krsna, exactly as the gopis did. It is also recommended that one should live on the banks of Radha-kunda and should be absorbed in the loving service of the Lord. One should bathe there regularly and give up all material conceptions, taking shelter of Sri Radha and Her assistant gopis. If one is thus constantly engaged during his lifetime, after giving up the body he will return back to Godhead to serve Sri Radha in the same way as he contemplated during his life on the banks of Radha-kunda. The conclusion is that to live on the banks of the Radha-kunda and to bathe there daily constitute the highest perfection of devotional service. It is a difficult position to attain, even for great sages and devotees like Narada. Thus there is no limit to the glory of Sri Radha-kunda. By serving Radha-kunda, one can get an opportunity to become an assistant of Srimati Radharani under the eternal guidance of the gopis.

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

[Puru_Das 0]

 

 

 

I have some questions that maybe some of the followers of Narayana Maharaja can answer on this forum.

 

My first question is in regards to this teaching of Narayana Maharaja I found on his website.

 

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>"Sastriya sadhu-sanga is proper. In other words, in the beginning stage of one’s sadhana, a sadhaka must keep himself confined within the standards of vaidhi-bhakti set by sadhus in sastra. Afterwards, for the purpose of bhajana-siksa, one is at liberty for sadhu-sanga. When one reaches the higher stage of raganuga bhajana, then he can approach a svajatiya-asya-snigdha sadhu* for bhajana-siksa and perform his bhajana under his guidance and instructions, which may be independent from the norms of any sastra. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

 

 

 

I would like to know what is bhajan-siksha, raganuga bhakti and where to find a svajatiya-asya-snigdha sadhu for learning about these things?

 

Is this in regards to my spiritual identity and rasa with Krishna?

 

And, where can I find supporting statements that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati and Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada also taught the necessity of these things that were given by Srila Rupa Goswami?

 

Specifically, I want to learn more about raganuga-bhakti, bhajan siksha etc.

 

And where does this fit in with the teachings of Srila Saraswati Goswami as

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>pujala raga patha gaurava bhange [raga marga, higher rasa, should always be kept over our head as worshipable; we are to serve the higher plane, not to try and enter there or to bring it down to this plane; we should always stay one step lower; if we try to look direct, it will vanish]

B.R. Sridhar Maharaja

 

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

 

 

 

We are all better served if we examine the entire article from which you extracted one short paragraph. and read it in context. It is a Bengali lecture given by Srila Bhakti Prajnan Kesava Maharaja Translated from Sri Gaudiya Patrika, issue 10/11

http://www.purebhakti.com/articles/sbpkm_sastriya.shtml

 

Are you really interested in inquiry about raganuga bhakti or are you just doing a poor imitation of Krsna das' article that tried to make false distinctions between acaryas?

 

did you not read this part of the quote?

". . . When one reaches the higher stage of raganuga bhajana. . ."

 

Srila Bhakti Prajnan Kesava maharaja also spoke on this topic in l955 at an assembly of Vaisnavas at the Kesavji Gaudiya Matha,in which both he and Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja discussed the Svarupa of the Jiva:

 

" When the jiva is averse to Paramesvara, his pure svarupa is conealed by maya. Conversely, when he become inclined towards Paramesvara, the curtain of the covering potency, maya, is withdrawn and thus the jiva's pure svarupa and qualities are uncovered. Immediately thereafter, he has the direct perception of his own svarupa. From this siddhanta it is evident that the jiva is an infinitessimal atomic particle of consciousness. He has an inherent spiritual identity, cimaya svarupa. His pure ahankara, pure consciousness, pure form and method of service and so on, are also definitely in this svarupa. As the sadhaka jiva goes on hearing and chanting, pure bhakti appears in his hear, and the function of the essence of hladini and samvit, known as bhakti-devi, removes all other desires and aspirations except for the service of bhagavan. Having dispelled avidya (ignorance), the jiva's gross and subtle coverings are both destoryed by the vidyavrtti function of the knowledge potency. At once the jiva's constitutional pure, transcendental body, is caused to manifest. Moeover for those who are eligible to taste madhurya -rasa their purely spiritual gopi body is also caused to manifest."

 

There is a similar statement about how Dhruva Maharaja disconnected from the subtle body.when he realized his true eternal sellf, in the 4th Canto of HDGACBSP's SB. When I find it I will post it for you.

 

Certainly sounds like SBPKGM was in direct line and sync with SBSST. The both advocated that sadhakas hear and chant and follow the principles of vaidhi bhakti and gradually rise to the adhikara to realize their svarupa and not prematurely concern themselves with the ekadasi bhavas until they really means something to them by the actual realization of their vastu siddhi. From the above statement it appears that SBPKM taught that all the ekasi bhavas automatically are contained within the svarupa of any purely realized jiva.

[Puru_Das 0]

There is a similar statement about how Dhruva Maharaja disconnected from the subtle body.when he realized his true eternal sellf, in the 4th Canto of HDGACBSP's SB. When I find it I will post it for you.

TEXT 18

TEXT

bhaktim harau bhagavati pravahann ajasram

ananda-baspa-kalaya muhur ardyamanah

viklidyamana-hrdayah pulakacitango

natmanam asmarad asav iti mukta-lingah

SYNONYMS

bhaktim--devotional service; harau--unto Hari; bhagavati--the Supreme personality of Godhead; pravahan--constantly engaging in; ajasram--always; ananda--blissful; baspa-kalaya--by a stream of tears; muhuh--again and again; ardyamanah--being overcome; viklidyamana--melting; hrdayah--his heart; pulaka--standing of hairs; acita--covered; angah--his body; na--not; atmanam--body; asmarat--he remembered; asau--he; iti--thus; mukta-lingah--free from the subtle body.

TRANSLATION

Because of his transcendental bliss, incessant tears flowed from his eyes, his heart melted, and there was shivering and standing of the hairs all over his body. Thus transformed, in a trance of devotional service, Dhruva Maharaja completely forgot his bodily existence, and thus he immediately became liberated from material bondage.

PURPORT

Due to constant engagement in devotional service--hearing, chanting, remembering, worshiping the Deity, etc., as prescribed in nine varieties--there are different symptoms which appear in the body of a devotee. These eight bodily transformations, which indicate that a devotee is already liberated within himself, are called asta-sattvika-vikara. When a devotee completely forgets his bodily existence, he should be understood to be liberated. He is no longer encaged in the body. The example is given that when a coconut becomes completely dry, the coconut pulp within the coconut shell separates from the bondage of the shell and the outer covering. By moving the dry coconut, one can hear that the pulp within is no longer attached to the shell or to the covering. Similarly, when one is fully absorbed in devotional service, he is completely disconnected from the two material coverings, the subtle and gross bodies. Dhruva Maharaja actually attained this stage of life by constantly discharging devotional service. He has already been described as a maha-bhagavata, for unless one becomes a maha-bhagavata, or a first-class pure devotee, these symptoms are not visible. Lord Caitanya exhibited all these symptoms. Thakura Haridasa also exhibited them, and there are many pure devotees who manifested such bodily symptoms. They are not to be imitated, but when one is actually advanced, these symptoms are exhibited. At that time it is to be understood that a devotee is materially free. Of course, from the beginning of devotional service the path of liberation immediately opens, just as the coconut taken from the tree immediately begins to dry; it simply takes some time for the shell and pulp to separate from one another.

An important word in this verse is mukta-lingah. Mukta means "liberated," and linga means "the subtle body." When a man dies, he quits the gross body, but the subtle body of mind, intelligence and ego carries him to a new body. While existing in the present body, the same subtle body carries him from one stage of life to another (for example, from childhood to boyhood) by mental development. The mental condition of a baby is different from that of a boy, the mental condition of a boy is different from that of a young man, and the mental condition of a young man is different from that of an old man. So at death the process of changing bodies takes place due to the subtle body; the mind, intelligence and ego carry the soul from one gross body to another. This is called transmigration of the soul. But there is another stage, when one becomes liberated even from the subtle body; at that time the living entity is competent and fully prepared to be transferred to the transcendental or spiritual world.

The description of the bodily symptoms of Sri Dhruva Maharaja makes it apparent that he became perfectly fit to be transferred to the spiritual world. One can experience the distinction between the subtle and gross bodies even daily; in a dream, one's gross body is lying on the bed while the subtle body carries the soul, the living entity, to another atmosphere. But because the gross body has to be continued, the subtle body comes back and settles in the present gross body. Therefore one has to become free from the subtle body also. This freedom is known as mukta-linga.

SB 4.12.18

HDGACBSP

[vijay 0]

Does this have any substance?

 

Former prominent follower of Narayana Maharaja:

“The Vilap Kusumanjali lectures Narayana Maharaja gave during 1991-1993 were more or less based on the commentaries of Sri Ananda Gopal Gosvami and Sri Ananta Dasa Babaji. Particularly some of the asta-kaliya-lilas related by the former were of his own realization. In terms of the Gaudiya Math, the former would be classified as a caste Gosvamin and the latter as a sahajiya Babaji. Nevertheless Narayana Maharaja plagiarized their works and let people believe he expressed his own realizations. And moreover, now he boycotts the very same persons’, Ananta das Baba's, works directly on his lectures. The translator and publisher of Ananta das Baba's works in English, Advaitadas, is a grand-disciple of Ananda Gopal Gosvamin. For all documents I have seen, Narayana Maharaja has not directly criticized Ananda Gopal Gosvamin, but he would certainly not be accepted by the orthodox followers of the Gaudiya Math.

“One of many examples:

Vilapa Kusumanjali verse 31 — Narayana Maharaja says on September 21, 1994: “In the meantime the anklet of one foot came out and went away. Tulasi noticed that the sound of Vamsi had also become less and Srimati Radhika stopped to dance and everything was upset. Tulasi ran towards the anklet, but in the meantime Krsna came and took it. He bound it on the feet of Srimati Radhika, and again the dancing and all things were done as before. Tulasi Manjari remembered this and began to tell to Radhika, “O You remember when Rasa was going on and this happened? Krsna took the anklet Himself and He tightened it on Your feet and again You began to dance.”

Ananda Gopala Gosvami said 40 years earlier: hathat nupura khose geche. Dasi nece nece ese noto hoiya nrtya parayana carane poraiya dilen....nupur khose geche dekhe kokhon-o syamasundara bansi gunje rekhe carana buke tule niye dui hate poran. “Suddenly an anklebell fell off; the maidservant danced and stooped down to put them back on Her dancing feet. Sometimes also Syamasundara, when seeing the anklebell falling off, tucks His flute in His sash, takes Svamini’s feet to His chest and replaces the bell.”

[Guest guest]

Puru said

 

Atul never did any such thing. He is just keeping a low profile.

 

Atul Krishna das, the disciple of Narayana Maharaja took reinitiation from Ananta das Babaji and rejected Narayana Maharaja.

His name is now Madhavananda das and he has accused Narayana Maharaja of plagiarizing Vilapa kusumanjali commentary of Ananta das babaji.

 

So, I guess Atul Krishna das followed Narayana Maharaja's advice "then he can approach a svajatiya-asya-snigdha sadhu* for bhajana-siksa and perform his bhajana under his guidance and instructions," and found himself a "svajatiya-asya-snigdha sadhu" for learning "bhajan-siksha".

 

In the process, Narayana Maharaja was thus rejected.

[Guest guest]

Puru said:

 

We are all better served if we examine the entire article from which you extracted one short paragraph. and read it in context. It is a Bengali lecture given by Srila Bhakti Prajnan Kesava Maharaja Translated from Sri Gaudiya Patrika, issue 10/11

 

Does this mean that Keshava Maharaja was taught this by Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, and if so, is that why Narayana Maharaja himself left guru's matha to go take bhajan-siksha from the babajis at Radha-kunda?

 

If this is all truth, then what is wrong for all devotees to go to Radha-kunda and get bhajan-siksha from the babajis?

 

Why Narayana Maharaja is saying boycott the babajis?

[Guest guest]

Narayana Maharaja explains here that Srila Prabhupada could not give th highest thing, but that now he is trying to teach what Srila Prabhupada did not teach.

 

 

Parama-pujyapada Srila Svami Maharaja has come especially to give this – rupanuga-bhakti. He did not come only to give raganuga-bhakti, nor did he come only to give vaidhi-bhakti. He could not give this to his general disciples at that time, however, because most of them were not in the stage to understand. Even now I am endeavoring with great labor to make you understand, but still only a few are trying to understand. About 25 years ago, when Srila Svami Maharaja went to America to preach, how could he openly preach this topic? There was practically no one qualified to understand – and thus he was mostly engaged in cutting jungles.

 

he says:

 

He could not give this to his general disciples at that time, however, because most of them were not in the stage to understand.

 

Now, Narayana Maharaja has come to give what Prabhupada did not give:

 

 

Even now I am endeavoring with great labor to make you understand, but still only a few are trying to understand.

 

But, he says that not many disciples of Srila Prabhupada are interested in learning to be Rupanuga.

[Guest guest]

<quote>

Puru said

 

Quote:

Atul never did any such thing. He is just keeping a low profile.

 

 

Atul Krishna das, the disciple of Narayana Maharaja took reinitiation from Ananta das Babaji and rejected Narayana Maharaja.

His name is now Madhavananda das and he has accused Narayana Maharaja of plagiarizing Vilapa kusumanjali commentary of Ananta das babaji.

 

So, I guess Atul Krishna das followed Narayana Maharaja's advice "then he can approach a svajatiya-asya-snigdha sadhu* for bhajana-siksa and perform his bhajana under his guidance and instructions," and found himself a "svajatiya-asya-snigdha sadhu" for learning "bhajan-siksha".

 

In the process, Narayana Maharaja was thus rejected. </quote>

 

 

The Atul Krishna that Puru dasa is speaking of is a grihasta who lives in L.A. (I think).....The Atul Krishna that guest is speaking of is indeed Madhavanada.

 

So Puru dasa is correct when he says that that <b>Atul Krishna</b> has not rejected Srila BV Narayana Maharaja, as Puru is speaking about someone else...

[Guest guest]

<quote>

Atul Krishna das, the disciple of Narayana Maharaja took reinitiation from Ananta das Babaji and rejected Narayana Maharaja.

His name is now Madhavananda das and he has accused Narayana Maharaja of plagiarizing Vilapa kusumanjali commentary of Ananta das babaji.

 

So, I guess Atul Krishna das followed Narayana Maharaja's advice "then he can approach a svajatiya-asya-snigdha sadhu* for bhajana-siksa and perform his bhajana under his guidance and instructions," and found himself a "svajatiya-asya-snigdha sadhu" for learning "bhajan-siksha".

 

In the process, Narayana Maharaja was thus rejected.

</quote>

 

Our Guest is either a "traditional" vaisnava or as I suspect a member of a Gaudiya Group with an axe to grind....

[Guest guest]

According to Narayana Maharaja, Srila Prabhupada never got around to distributing prema because he had to spend all his time "cutting away the jungle".

Then he explains how Krishna did not agree with Srila Prabhupada and took him away before he could finish translating Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

 

His life's ideal and principal desire was to give this prema to the world, but first he had to spend a long time in cutting away the jungle and in preaching vaidhi-bhakti. He desired to translate the Srimad-Bhagavatam in full and especially to elaborately describe the pastimes narrated in the Tenth Canto. But BHAGAVAN DID NOT AGREE and He called him back to His nitya-lila.

 

I never really understood before that Bhagavan had a disagreement with Srila Prabhupada and took him away before Srila Prabhupada could finish his work.

[Guest guest]

Narayana Maharaja:Moscow, July 30, 2000,

 

We have not come for joining any society. We have come to serve Radha-Krishna Conjugal and Mahaprabhu. This is our aim and object. Why remain where the object is not fulfilled?

 

Does this mean that joining the International Society for Krishna Consciousness should be rejected because there the object if not fulfilled?

 

Is Narayana Maharaja saying we should not remain in ISKCON because the object there is not fulfilled?

 

so, Narayana Maharaja does not need to cut away any jungle, but can go straight to teaching Radha-Krishna conjugal to new devotees in Russia?

[Guest guest]

 

“One of many examples:

Vilapa Kusumanjali verse 31 — Narayana Maharaja says on September 21, 1994: “In the meantime the anklet of one foot came out and went away. Tulasi noticed that the sound of Vamsi had also become less and Srimati Radhika stopped to dance and everything was upset. Tulasi ran towards the anklet, but in the meantime Krsna came and took it. He bound it on the feet of Srimati Radhika, and again the dancing and all things were done as before. Tulasi Manjari remembered this and began to tell to Radhika, “O You remember when Rasa was going on and this happened? Krsna took the anklet Himself and He tightened it on Your feet and again You began to dance.”

 

Ananda Gopala Gosvami said 40 years earlier: hathat nupura khose geche. Dasi nece nece ese noto hoiya nrtya parayana carane poraiya dilen....nupur khose geche dekhe kokhon-o syamasundara bansi gunje rekhe carana buke tule niye dui hate poran. “Suddenly an anklebell fell off; the maidservant danced and stooped down to put them back on Her dancing feet. Sometimes also Syamasundara, when seeing the anklebell falling off, tucks His flute in His sash, takes Svamini’s feet to His chest and replaces the bell.”

 

 

Vija, you ask if this has any substance, the answer is no...

 

Does Anana Gopala Gosvami mention Tulasi manjari directly? Or mention her speaking to Radhika? Or that Krishna's flute became quieter?

 

If this is an eternal pastime surley the realisations would concur....

 

 

Did you know that Srila Prabhupada's Caitanya Charitamarta puports nearly read word for word those by of Bhaktisiddhanta's Bengali purports? Yet Iskcon devotees refer to the purports as Srila Prabupada's. Should we accuse Srila Prabhupada of palgarism? I don't.

[Guest guest]

I don't agree that Bhagavan had a disagreement with Srila Prabhupada.

 

My feeling is that Srila Prabhupada died from seperation before he could complete Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

Krishna did not disagree with Srila Prabhupada.

 

Srila Prabhupada left his body in seperation of love.

 

Krishna did not yank him away before he could complete his work because he did not agree with him.

[Guest guest]

 

Narayana Maharaja:Moscow, July 30, 2000,

 

 

No, that is not what he is saying.

 

 

 

No, he is not saying that. Why don't you go and ask him yourself.

 

 

 

He doesn't go straight to praching Radha-krishna conjugal to new devotees.

 

Why choose selected quotes that can be taken out of context?

 

There are several questions that can be rasied here:

 

What roles do organised societies play in Gaudiya Vaisnavaism?

 

Does a devotee need to be part of an organisation?

[Guest guest]

God Consciousness vs. Society Consciousness

 

Responding to the necessity of the times Srila Sridhara Maharaja lucidly explains the absolute societal conception of Krsna consciousness:

 

Devotee: Within a religious mission, sectarian policies may appear to bar the path of progress and pragmatic concerns take precedence over spiritual ideals. Should one risk leaving the formal institution or should he try to remain within and work out the problems?

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Progress means elimination and new acceptance. So, when there is a clash between the relative and the absolute standpoint, the relative must be left aside, and the absolute accepted. The example is given of a socialist in a country of capitalists. When there is a clash, one will not express their creed for the sake of peace. But to maintain the purity of their faith for the socialists they will try to leave and join the socialists.

 

 

Higher Ideal

 

So, the absolute and the relative are two different classes of interest. And we find more importance in the absolute interest. We must be sincere to our own creed. The form is necessary to help me in a general way to maintain my present position. At the same time, my conception of the higher ideal will always goad me to advance, to go forward, and wherever I do, I must follow the greater model, the greater ideal. Spiritual life is progressive, not stagnant. We are in the stage of sadhana, and we want to go ahead, not backwards. The formal position will help me to maintain my present status, and my extraordinary affinity for the ideal will goad me towards the front. The search for Sri Krsna is dynamic and living, so adjustment and readjustment is always going on. And we should also change our present position accordingly, so that we may not have to sacrifice the high ideal for which we have come. Einstein had to leave Germany and go to America for his high ideal of life. And so many similar instances may be found in the world. The ideal is all in all. The highest ideal in a man is his highest jewel. Our most precious gem is our ideal.

 

Many things are recommended in the scriptures, but they are meant to promote us towards the truth in an indirect way (sva-dharme nidhanam sreya ). [bg 3.35] It is recommended at a certain stage that for the sake of our close friends, we should give up our ideal. But in the Bhagavad-gita, Krsna's final instruction is sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: "If it is necessary to maintain the highest ideal, you must give up your friends. Surrender to me. I am the real purport of the scriptures." The highest kind of idealists give up their country, their family, their friends, and everything else, but they can't give up their ideal.

 

In the Bhagavad-gita, [3.35] Krsna says, "It is better to die while performing one's duty that to try to do another's duty." That is one stage of understanding: the relative consideration. The absolute consideration is also given in the Bhagavad-gita: sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [bg. 18.66]. Krsna says, "Give up everything. Come to Me directly." This is the revolutionary way. This is absolute. And this is relative: "Stick to your own clan. Don't leave them." That is the national conception. There is nation consciousness and God consciousness; society consciousness and God consciousness. God consciousness is absolute. If society consciousness hinders the development of God consciousness, it should be left behind. This is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam (5.5.18):

 

 

gurur na sa syat sva jano na sa syat

pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat

daivam na tat syan na patis ca sa syan

na mocayed yah samupeta mrtyum

 

Even a spiritual master, relative, parent, husband, or demigod who cannot save us from repeated birth and death should be abandoned at once."

 

What to speak of ordinary things, even the guru, may have to be abandoned. One may even have to give up one's own spiritual guide, as in the case of Bali Maharaja, or one's relatives, as in the case of Vibhisana. In the case of Prahlada, his father had to be given up, and in the case of Bharata Maharaja, it was his mother. In the case of Khatvanga Maharaja, he left the demigods, and in the case of the yajna patnis, (the wives of the brahmanas ) they left their husbands in the endeavor to reach the Absolute Personality.

 

We need society only to help us. If our affinity to the society keeps us down, then that should be given up, and we must march on. There is the absolute consideration and the relative consideration. When they come into clash, the relative must be given up, and the absolute should be accepted. If my inner voice, my spiritual conscience decides that this sort of company cannot really help me, then I will be under painful necessity to give them up, and to run towards my destination, wherever my spiritual conscience guides me. Any other course will be hypocrisy, and it will check my real progress. If we are sincere in our attempt, then no one in the world can check us or deceive us; we can only deceive ourselves (na hi kalyana-krt kascid durgatim tata gacchati ) [bg. 6.40]. We must be true to our own selves, and true to the Supreme Lord. We must be sincere.

 

 

Disappearance of the Guru

 

Devotee: After the disappearance of the spiritual master, how should the disciples continue the mission?

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: You must not neglect your conscience. Otherwise you have no faith in your own cause. There may be disturbances but we should not leave the preaching of Mahaprabhu, despite all differences. Disturbances must come, and we must undergo them. Still, we must remain sincere; we must face the difficulty in a proper way. It has come to train us to go in the right direction.

 

The Fire has Come to Test Us

 

What we have received from our spiritual master we understood only in a rough estimation. Now, things have come in such a way that we have to scrutinize ourselves in every position. We have to analyze ourselves. Atma-niksepa, self-analysis has begun. We are under trial. What we have received from our spiritual master, in what way have we received it? Properly, or only showingly? The time has come to purify us, to test whether we are real students, real disciples, or his disciples only in face and confession. What is the position of a real disciple? If we live in a society, what is the depth of our creed? In what attitude have we accepted his teachings? How deep-rooted is it within us? The fire has come to test whether we can stand. Is our acceptance real? Or is it a sham, an imitation? This fire will prove that.

 

So, this is the real field of sadhana, or practice. Our practice, our advancement needs these difficulties. Otherwise, we may not know what is progress, and we will become hypocrites, and give the adulterated thing to others. So, to purify ourselves, it is necessary that so many disturbances come.

 

And God has no error. He commands the environment. It is not our responsibility. The responsibility of the environment does not rest upon us. If I am sincere, then I have to adjust myself with this environment and put my faith before Him. "Everyone may leave me, but I shall stand alone!" With this attitude we must march on, whatever the circumstances may be. Then the recognition may come in my favor, that "Yes, under such trying circumstances he is still there." Our superiors will be pleased with us.

 

The relative and absolute considerations are always coming in clash. The absolute should be accepted and the relative sacrificed. Still the relative is necessary. After graduation from primary school another teacher is accepted for higher education, but that does not mean that the primary teacher is neglected or insulted. For our own interest, whatever we find which is akin to what was given to us by our guru maharaja, whatever we find that will enlighten us further, and whatever will help us to understand more clearly what we heard from our guru maharaja, must be accepted. Is my realization a living thing, or is it dead? Anyone who has come in connection with the infinite cannot but say this: "I am nothing." That should be the salient point.

 

We have left all social concerns and so many other shackles. For what? For the Absolute Truth. And wherever I shall find that, I must bow down my head. And if a great soul shows us, "This is the path to where you will find your thirst quenched. The line is in this zigzag way," we must accept that for our own interest. We are worshipers not of this form, but of substance. Wherever I feel the presence of my Lord in an intense form, I must be attracted to that side. Krsna says, sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. Wherever we shall find Him, we must run in that direction. My interest is with Him. Not that we can challenge, "Why did Krsna appear here, and why is He appearing there?" If a man in a boat is passing through the current and finds himself in danger, then from whatever side help may come, he must run to that side.

 

If we are worshipers of Siva, when we understand the special superiority of Narayana, should we stick to Siva? And then Krsna? In the Brhad-bhagavatamrta the story is told of how Gopa-kumara, by chanting his Gopala mantra, gradually leaves one stage and progresses to the next. There, the gradation of devotion is traced from the karma-kanda brahmana, to a devotee king, then to Indra, then to Brahma, then to Siva, from him to Prahlada, then to Hanuman, then the Pandavas, then to the Yadavas, to Uddhava, and finally the gopis. In this zigzag way he is passing. In the sincerity of his quest, his thirst is not being quenched until he goes to Vrndavana. So, the Brhad-bhagavatamrta has shown us the line of guru parampara, or the real line of our quest, of our search.

 

 

Sincere Hankering for the Truth is Our Guide

 

If we are sincerely searching after real truth, then wherever we go may be a contribution to our experience for further preaching in the future. We may cross many guru paramparas before ultimately attaining the Vraja-lila of Krsna, as given by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Sometimes the father may not be our guardian. Our uncle may be our guide, and not the father. It is possible. The line of interest is to be considered the most important. So, our line is the siksa guru parampara.

 

I am thankful to those that are helping my spiritual understanding not only in a formal way, but in the real sense. Whoever is untying the knots of our entanglement in this material world, giving us light, and quenching our thirst for inner understanding and satisfaction is our guru. In this way, we live on the contribution of all these spiritual masters. They are all our siksa gurus. All the Vaisnavas are more or less our instructing spiritual masters.

 

And our own sincere hankering for the truth will be our guide. That is guru parampara. So the real disciplic line provides practical knowledge in support of the divine love which is coming down. We must bow our heads wherever we find support of that. We should not become formalists, but substantialists; not fashionists, not imitationists, but realistic thinkers. That should always be our temperament.

 

And what sort of saintly persons shall we try to mix with earnestly? In the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.2.91) Rupa Goswami has said, sajati-yasye snigdhe sadhau sangah svato vare: Those who are in our line, who have the same high spiritual aspirations as we do, and who hold a superior position. To associate with such saintly persons will help us the most to progress towards the ultimate goal.

 

There may be some obstacles, but if at heart we are sincere, the environment cannot deceive us, because God's inner help is there, cooperating with our sincere, inner need (na hi kalyana krt kascit durgatim tata gacchati) [bg. 6.40]. What we want from our innermost hearts cannot but come true, because Krsna knows everything. There may be some obstacles, but by Krsna's help, they shall all be eliminated and our innermost aspiration will be crowned with success.

 

The formal societal position helps one to maintain their present status while our affinity for the high ideal will always push us to advance in Krsna consciousness. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.18 it is stated that whatever hinders our advancement must be left behind, even society consciousness. The society is there to help us, not hinder us. Our process is Krsna consciousness not society consciousness.

 

Shri Guru & His Grace

[Puru_Das 0]

 

Puru said:. . .

If this is all truth, then what is wrong for all devotees to go to Radha-kunda and get bhajan-siksha from the babajis?

 

Why Narayana Maharaja is saying boycott the babajis?

 

"First of all they don't accept that the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya is one of the sakhas, branches, of the Brahma-Madhva Sampradaya, although this fact has been clearly explained by Sri Kavi Karnipura, Srila Jiva Gosvami, and then by Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana Prabhu. It has also been explained by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, by my Gurudeva, that is, Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja, and also by Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja.

 

Secondly, they think that Sri Prabhodananda Sarasvati and Prakasananda Sarasvati are the same person, although there is so much difference between them. This cannot be so. Will a person of the Ramanuja Sampradaya go down to become a Mayavadi like Prakasananda Sarasvati, and then again become Prabhodananda Sarasvati, who was so exalted that he became the guru of Srila Gopala Bhatta Gosvami? This idea is absurd. Prabhodananda Sarasvati and Prakasananda Sarasvati were contemporaries. Will the same person go back and forth, being a Vaisnava in South India, then becoming a Mayavadi, again becoming a Vaisnava in Vrndavana, and again becoming a Mayavadi? Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura has vividly written about this, and great historians and research scholars have also rejected the idea that they are the same person.

 

Thirdly, they don’t give proper honor to Sri Jiva Gosvami, and this is a very big blunder. This is a vital point. They say that Jiva Gosvami is of svakiya-bhava, that he never supported parakiya-bhava, and that he is against parakiya-bhava. They say that in his explanations of Srimad Bhagavatam and Brahma-samhita, in his own books like Gopala Campu, and especially in his Sri Ujjvala-nilamani tika, he has written against parakiya-bhava. This is their greatest blunder. We don’t accept their statements at all."

 

an excerpt from the beginning of the article

Boycott the Sahajiya Babajis

Read the entire thing and then your question is answered.

[SishirSaha 0]

 

Vija, you ask if this has any substance, the answer is no...

 

Does Anana Gopala Gosvami mention Tulasi manjari directly? Or mention her speaking to Radhika? Or that Krishna's flute became quieter?

 

If this is an eternal pastime surley the realisations would concur....

 

 

Did you know that Srila Prabhupada's Caitanya Charitamarta puports nearly read word for word those by of Bhaktisiddhanta's Bengali purports? Yet Iskcon devotees refer to the purports as Srila Prabupada's. Should we accuse Srila Prabhupada of palgarism? I don't.

This is incorrect. There are thousands of things in Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur's Bengali purports which are not in Srila Prabhupad's Caitanya Caritamarta. There are also a large number of comments in Srila Prabhupad's purports to Caritamrta which are not in Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur's translation or his anubhasya commentary. Maybe in the future an ISKCON devotee will translate the anubhasya into English so non Indian devotees can study haktisiddhanta Thakur's translation. We are lucky we have both translations and not just one.