Bathing in Ganga clears all karmic debt?

[Guest guest]

 

I'm not a gaudiya Vaishnava, but am Hindu and have you actually read the Vedas? It slightly mentions the Ganges, but doesn't talk of ganges cleansing of sins. It is not common sense. It is simply tradition.

The Vedas praise the Saraswati civilisation and while it reveres the saraswati river, I don't think it speaks of washing off sins in it's waters.

 

No, there are quite a few passages in the Vedas that say that Ganges cleanses one of sins. Perhaps you can email JNDas and figure this out. Mahabharata is part of the Vedas.

[Guest guest]

 

I'm not a gaudiya Vaishnava, but am Hindu and have you actually read the Vedas? It slightly mentions the Ganges, but doesn't talk of ganges cleansing of sins. It is not common sense. It is simply tradition.

The Vedas praise the Saraswati civilisation and while it reveres the saraswati river, I don't think it speaks of washing off sins in it's waters.

 

{www}.{srimadbhagavatam}.{org}/canto5/chapter17.html

[Guest guest]

Number 2,

 

Go look in the mirror. What do you see? you see a man, made up of flesh, bones, a material body, do you not? But is this the real you? Is this all there is to you?

 

You look at the Ganga and complain, "it's just a dirty river, there is nothing special about it. Why should I believe in the myths handed down to us by the ancient sages. I am a rational man. All I see is water. The old sages must have just been superstitious or had a wild imagination when they composed these stories."

 

Similarly, the scientist looks at your body and says the same thing, when it comes to the existence of your Soul. He says: "why should I believe in old religious superstitions, there is no proof of a Soul in man. I cannot see it with my microscope. All I see is a body, and organs and cells. No substance that could be called an immortal soul. So it must not exist."

 

Just like you cannot see yourSelf (the real you), which is the Soul, you cannot see the Real Ganga. All you see is Her gross material manifestation and you scoff at anything beyond that. So like the materialistic scientist who denies the existence of a Soul, because he cannot see it, you deny the existence of the real Ganga.

 

By the way, that karma you speak of also is invisible. So why do you believe in karma? maybe you should disregard the idea of karma as an old Hindu superstition. Afterall, you are a rational man.

[Guest guest]

First of all Srimad Bhagvatam and the Mahabharata are NOT part of the Vedas.

The Vedas consist of Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharva Vedas. The Upanishads are also part of the Vedas. Mahabharata and all the Puranas come under the category of smriti which is after the Vedas and of lesser importance.

 

As for the Ganges being dirty water, well yes it is. I agree that the ganges is a pilgrimage destination and was an area of tapasya throughout history. But that doesn't change the fact that it's waters are polluted today. The law of karma is rational. But the idea that ganges only can wash off sins is irrational. All water in the sea and ocean is connected, so where does the ganges start and end? At what point does the water of the ganges become unholy and what part is it the most holy? Shouldn't it follow that all water is holy? If all you people truly believe ganges is holy water what are you doing to clean it up?

 

 

Why should I believe in the myths handed down to us by the ancient sages. I am a rational man. All I see is water. The old sages must have just been superstitious or had a wild imagination when they composed these stories.

 

 

I take no shame in being rational, I am proud of it. Some of the sages were true holy men with real experience of God and some composed stories for folks like you who cannot comprehend higher philosophy.

[Guest guest]

 

 

As for the Ganges being dirty water, well yes it is. I agree that the ganges is a pilgrimage destination and was an area of tapasya throughout history. But that doesn't change the fact that it's waters are polluted today. The law of karma is rational. But the idea that ganges only can wash off sins is irrational.

 

The Goddess Ganga washes off our sins, not water. It's that she has descended to earth in this form, so the water is where we engage in her cleansing presence.

 

God can give us Moksha and erase our karmic debt. Didn't Lord Rama grant moksha to certain devotees while he was on earth? So when he did, he must have removed all future karmic reactions that would cause them to be reborn.

 

It seems you think believing in Grace, is juvenile, but actually it is wise. Surrending to God is the wisest way to obtain spiritual release and forgiveness. Saivites, Shakta and Vaishnavas believe in God's grace. Thinking we can obtain moksha thru severe austerities alone, is very prideful.

 

 

I take no shame in being rational, I am proud of it. Some of the sages were true holy men with real experience of God and some composed stories for folks like you who cannot comprehend higher philosophy.

 

Some of the greatest holy men and Swamis have praised Mother Ganga, and these people were not superstitious folk. Everyday there are Pujas done on the banks of the Ganges, but according to you these pujas are done by ignorant fools.

 

But here is some 'higher philosophy for you:

 

"Symbolically, on the earth plane, the river stands for divine consciousness. It descended into the earth consciousness through the efforts of sage Bhageerath. But since the earth was not sufficiently evolved to receive its full consciousness, Lord Siva came forward to allow it to fall on His head first and then flow down towards the earth. He also made the Ganges His permanent companion.

 

Being divine consciousness, who ever immerses himself in it becomes immortal. It is eternal because it is the highest consciousness, which human beings are capable of attaining during their spiritual endeavor.

 

In the body plane, the story of Ganga reveals the divine origin of kundalini and its descent through the various chakras of the body into the lowest chakra, the muladhara corresponding to the patala regions of the world, where it remains coiled like a serpent till it ascends again into the higher chakras during ones spiritual sadhana.

 

If we interpret the word Bhageerath as "bhaga"+"rathi" it means he who rides bhaga (the reproductive organ) which is the place where the kundalini ordinarily remains in a coiled state. Probably the sons of Sagara whom sage Bhagirath rescued correspond to the various nerve centers in that region.

 

The divine consciousness thus entering into earth plane (human body) through Lord Siva made spiritual evolution possible on earth as well in human body."

- Jayaram V

[Guest guest]

 

First of all Srimad Bhagvatam and the Mahabharata are NOT part of the Vedas.

The Vedas consist of Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharva Vedas. The Upanishads are also part of the Vedas. Mahabharata and all the Puranas come under the category of smriti which is after the Vedas and of lesser importance.

 

I completely disagree. Are Mahabharata and Bhagavatam composed by Ved VyasaDev? Then they are the Vedas. The idea the sabda-brahma stops at the Rig, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva Vedas is ridiculous. Anyway there is a verse in the Upanishads that says that the history books (Ramayana & Mahabharata) are part of the Vedas. Maybe you can look this verse up to verfiy & validate this.

[Guest guest]

 

I completely disagree. Are Mahabharata and Bhagavatam composed by Ved VyasaDev? Then they are the Vedas. The idea the sabda-brahma stops at the Rig, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva Vedas is ridiculous. Anyway there is a verse in the Upanishads that says that the history books (Ramayana & Mahabharata) are part of the Vedas. Maybe you can look this verse up to verfiy & validate this.

 

One thing though, the Puranas are not all in agreement. The Saivite Puranas, Vaishnava Puranas, and Devi Puranas, do have some differences. All Hindu sects follow the Vedas however. So they are the main authority, that all Hindus agree on.

[Guest guest]

 

I completely disagree. Are Mahabharata and Bhagavatam composed by Ved VyasaDev? Then they are the Vedas. The idea the sabda-brahma stops at the Rig, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva Vedas is ridiculous. Anyway there is a verse in the Upanishads that says that the history books (Ramayana & Mahabharata) are part of the Vedas. Maybe you can look this verse up to verfiy & validate this.

 

Mahabharata and Bhagvatam are said to be composed by Veda Vyasa. The Vedas itself represents the earliest portion of Hindu scripture - the earliest source, and I think for this reason all sects revere it, though differ in their share of sectarian puranas. The Vedas existed long before Veda Vyasa and he just complied them into the four books. But the thought that the Mahabharata and Bhagvatam is part of the Vedas is a view I have never heard before and I suspect a vaishnava sectarian viewpoint.

 

All 18 puranas have been attributed to Vyasa, but I find it hard to accept that he wrote them all since there are many contradictions in them. The Vaishnavas follow their 6 vaishnavite puranas where Vishnu is supreme, the Shaivites and Shaktas do the same for their 6 Puranas where their deity is hailed as supreme and the other gods lower than them. If all 18 puranas are all true then it follows that all 3 gods are supreme, but this is precisely what the 3 sects disagree on.

[Guest guest]

 

is it true that by bathing in the pure waters of Mother Ganga, that all my karmic debt is automatically cleared? Can Ganga bestow Moksha upon us? Please let me know.

 

Yes, take bath first and then ask whether you are still sinner? If yes, take another bath, then ask again, if yes another bath, continue until you are clean from all sins.

 

Once the answer comes from your soul, you are no more sinner then stop. Ganga is holly and wife of Hari. So mercy of Ganga is mercy of Hari that is always Truth.