Bg 10.11

[theist 1]

TRANSLATION Gita 10.11

To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance.

 

PURPORT

When Lord Caitanya was in Benares promulgating the chanting of Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, thousands of people were following Him. Prakasananda Sarasvati, a very influential and learned scholar in Benares at that time, derided Lord Caitanya for being a sentimentalist. Sometimes philosophers criticize the devotees because they think that most of the devotees are in the darkness of ignorance and are philosophically naive sentimentalists. Actually that is not the fact. There are very, very learned scholars who have put forward the philosophy of devotion. But even if a devotee does not take advantage of their literatures or of his spiritual master, if he is sincere in his devotional service he is helped by Krishna Himself within his heart. So the sincere devotee engaged in Krishna consciousness cannot be without knowledge. The only qualification is that one carry out devotional service in full Krishna consciousness.

 

[snip]

 

Comments?

[Guest guest]

BR Sridhara's Hidden Treasure of the Sweet Absolute (Bhagavad Gita).

 

Ch. 10 verse 11 alternate translation.

Being conquered by the love of those devotees who, in the most elevated position of non-calculative loving devotion (jnana-sunya prema-bhakti), are afflicted by all-devouring darkness born of the pangs of seperation from Me, their Lord - I, granting them the internal illumination of meeting Me personally, destroy the darkness of their agony of seperation.

[theist 1]

Hmmm...

 

Seems very different. One is talking about the Lord helping a mixed but yet sincere devotee who is struggling to find Him. That mixed devotee is still in darkness but Krsna personally intervenes and illuminates him with transcendental knowledge from within.

 

Whereas the second is addressing a devotee who is already in a perfected state.

 

I am not saying they are not both in fact true simultaneously but I wonder which is more in line with the flow of the conversation that led up to that point.

 

But I meant to drawn attention to Srila Prabhupada's translation and it's relation to the lives of most of us presently. Especially the portion that I made bold.

 

Any thoughts on that on that guest?

[gHari 0]

both very beautiful, Theist.

 

By the way, I am reading over and over this wonderful small book by Srila Sridhara Deva Goswami Maharaja: Follow the Angels. It keeps reminding me of you, and your guru Gaura. His depth of perspective is so refreshing - it is like drinking concentrated humility, something we can none of us get enough of. He makes it a nectar so sweet and palatable.

[Guest guest]

"Any thoughts on that on that guest?" quote by theist

 

I have no thoughts on the underlined passage that I wish to share presently.

Sorry to diverge away from your line of questioning.

 

Sridhara Maharaja has written a nice commentary to 10.11 in his Hidden Treasure Bhagavad Gita which nicely explains the two different translations of the verse. Possibly I would recommend that you read this purport as it may assist in where you want to go with this thread.

 

The Hidden Treasure Bhagavad Gita can be read or downloaded at guardian-of-devotion dot de if you have not read it before. I hope it may be of some benefit to you in your studies.

[Guest guest]

Here is a cut and paste of the purport by Sridhara Maharaja for the pleasure of the devotees who may be interested.

 

11) Out of compassion for them, I, situated within the hearts of all living beings, dispel the

darkness of ignorance with the radiance of knowledge.

 

or

 

11) Being conquered by the love of those devotees who, in the most elevated position of noncalculative

loving devotion (jnana-sunya prema-bhakti), are afflicted by all-devouring darkness

born of the pangs of separation from Me, their Lord I, granting them the internal illumination

of meeting Me personally, destroy the darkness of their agony of separation.

 

 

Commentary: The general interpretation is always given for this verse:

"Out of compassion for them, I, situated within their hearts, dispel the darkness of ignorance

with the radiance of knowledge."

But if we appreciate pure, noncalculative devotion (jnana-sunya bhakti), the Lord's statement

here may again appear redundant and inconsistent. When those high devotees are already admitted

to be performing continuous and unadulterated service, and even above that, they are situated

in the plane of pure love, spontaneous and automatic (raga-marga), how can it be harmonized

that the Lord will now in the last stage destroy their ignorance (tamah) which is born from misunderstanding

(ajnana-jam), by giving them knowledge (jnana)? Jnana is only a cover a futile,

finite conception of the Infinite Absolute (jnana-karmady anavrtam ... bhaktir uttama). When

they have achieved devotion devoid of the cov- ering of knowledge (jnana-sunya bhakti), how

will they again have to return to that knowledge (jnana)? In his commentary, Srila Visvanatha

Cakravarti Thakura has mentioned that this knowledge is extraordinary (vilaksanam), but he did

not enter into specific detail. To clarify this point, we have given the following explanation:

Lamentation and delusion are generally known to be symptoms of the mode of ignorance (tamoguna).

In jnana-sunya bhakti, the elevated devotees who take Krsna not as the Supreme God, but

as a friend, son, husband, or lover, will come to experience lamentation and delusion, but this is

only an outward appearance of ignorance. In fact, it is the pain of divine separation. They lament,

"Where have You gone?"

In this verse, the Lord's statement, tesam evanukampa-artham generally means 'Fortunately for

them', or, 'To favor them (I dispel their darkness, etc.)'. But it may also be interpreted, 'I want

their favor. I aspire for the favor of those devotees of the highest order.'

The Lord also says in the Srimad Bhagavatam:

mayi bhaktir hi bhutanam, amrtatvaya kalpate

distya yad asin mat-sneho, bhavatinaμ mad-apanah

(Bhag. 10.82.44)

"Devotion to Me is the only means for the living beings to attain eternal life. O Gopis, by your

fortune, your love and affection for Me is the only reason for your getting My association."

This is the general meaning. However, in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja

Goswami has drawn out the inner meaning, which is just the opposite:

"Through devotion, everyone wants Me to help them attain the highest position of eternal benefit,

and if they have a connection with Me, they consider themselves fortunate. But I consider

Myself fortunate because I have come in touch with the valuable affection that I found in your

hearts. By My fortune, I got your association."

Therefore here in Sri Gita, the Lord is saying, "Tesam evanukampartham being conquered by the

love of those devotees, when I cannot tolerate their pain of separation, I at once come running to

satisfy them, and I reveal to them with special light, special consciousness, 'I have returned to

you see Me now.' With powerful brilliance (jnana-dipena) I show them My presence when they

are very much in need of Me, and I relieve their pain of separation."

Atma-bhava-sthah: He reveals Himself according to His devotee's divine relationship with Him

(rasa): to a friend, as a friend; to a mother, as a child; to a wife, as a husband; and to the sweethearts,

as a paramour.

After Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu left home and accepted the renounced order of life, sannyasa,

mother Saci could not tolerate the deep separation, and she began to cry. Sacidevi was preparing

excellent dishes, offering them to the Deity, and weeping, "Where is my Nimai? He's very fond

of these curries. His favorite dishes, and Nimai is not here." Suddenly, Lord Caitanya came and

began to eat. Sacidevi exclaimed, "Oh, Nimai is eating!" and for the time being her separation

was relieved. Moments later, she reconsidered, "Did I see Nimai eating? But He is now a sannyasi

in Jagannatha Puri, so how could He have come here? Did I serve Him? There must be a

mistake." Then she examined the pots again to see if there was food there. Finding them empty,

she began to conjecture whether even a dog or some other animal had come and eaten it. But during

that moment, Nimai had actually come, and mother Saci saw Him in broad daylight. That

illumination is transcendental, and not the 'knowledge' (jnana) that is generally known in our vocabulary.

The acme of theism is parakiya-rasa. Parakiya means 'another's'. In every divine relationship (rasa),

the Lord captures all. In the whole of Vrndavana, where everyone follows the path of love

(raga-marga), this parakiya-rasa is infused. The friends of Krsna sometimes say, "Some people

say that Krsna is a resident of Mathura. They say He's the son of Vasudeva, and He will soon go

to Mathura. They say He is not our friend! Will we really lose His company? Then how will we

be able to live in this jungle and drive the cows?" They experience this apprehension "We may

lose Him at any time." This intensifies their friendly service to Him.

Similarly, mother Yasoda says, "Some say that Krsna is not my son, He's Devaki's son. What is

this? I won't admit this. He's my child!" This idea enhances Yasoda's affection for Krsna: "I may

lose Him? Then how shall I live?" Therefore, the parakiya-rasa stresses the rarity of Krsna's relationship,

because the possibility of losing His company is always in the background. But the

highest intensity of service is to be found in the madhura-rasa (conjugal) camp. In the other rasas,

there is the idea of suspense that He may 'go away', but in the conjugal relationship in the

divine abode of Vrndavana, the consorts cross the direction of the scriptures and the society,

which guide everyone to remain as husband and wife (svakiya). Parakiya ('another's') has been

accepted in the science of devotion as the highest conception above svakiya ('belonging'), because

social and scriptural sanction is generally a stale conception. Parakiya or paramour relationship

is necessary to deceive those who claim ownership over another, such as a husband over the

wife, or a parent over a child. In the normally accepted connection (svakiya) the relationship is

very cheap, but to cross the jurisdiction of the scriptures and society, as paramour, means a greater

risk as if to commit sin. Thus, this relationship is very rare, and rarity enhances its intensity

and value. The idea of deceiving the 'possessor' to favor the 'nonpossessor' is a beautiful ornamental

conception. Actually in Krsna's case there cannot be any state of paramourship, because

in truth He is the owner of everything. However the divine arrangement is fashioned in this way

to enhance the devotee's internal devotion for the Lord, just as food appears more tasteful when

hunger is present.

In the planets known as Vaikuntha, the nature of worship of the Lord Visnu is gorgeous, majestic,

reverential, and awe-inspiring. But above that, the highest conception of Godhead is just like

a human form and nature. It is stated in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta in the teachings to Sanatana

Goswami:

krsnera yateka khela sarvottama nara-lila

nara-vapu tahara svarupa

gopa-vesa veukara nava-kisora naÝavara

nara-lila haya anurupa

krsnera madhura-rupa suna sanatana

ye rupera eka kaa dubaya saba tribhuvana

sarva-prani kare akarsana

"The most supreme form of Godhead is Krsna, who plays in His eternal divine pastimes just like

a human being. An ever-youthful cowherd boy of Vrndavana, He enacts His pastimes, always

playing His flute. His beauty is so charming and sweet, that the whole universe is flooded by an

atom of it, and all beings are drawn irresistibly to Him."

He is approachable by all. We can find God nearest of all in a human feature. It has been explained

how Krsna's nature of human feature is the highest nature of the Absolute, according to the

calculation of ecstasy (rasa), which is the common standard of measurement of the whole scope

of the Infinite. By the development of santa-, dasya-, sakhya-, vatsalya-, and madhura-rasa, and

then parakiya (peacefulness, servitude, friendship, parenthood, and consorthood, and the paramour

relationship), this is scientifically proved, without whimsical or blind faith. If we follow

the line of Rupanuga-bhajana (devotion following the standard of Srila Rupa Goswami) which

originates from Sri Caitanyadeva, the scientific basis can be appreciated. The previous acaryas

have left for us, step by step, how we can follow, conceive, and attain all these things.

[gHari 0]

<center><a href=http://vedabase.net/bg/10/11/en target=new>BG 10.11</a>

teSAm evAnukampArtham

aham ajJAna-jaM tamaH

nAzayAmy Atma-bhAva-stho

jJAna-dIpena bhAsvatA

</center>

teSAm--for them; eva--certainly; anukampA-artham--to show special mercy; aham--I; ajJAna-jam--due to ignorance; tamaH--darkness; nAzayAmi--dispel; Atma-bhAva--within their hearts; sthaH--situated; jJAna--of knowledge; dIpena--with the lamp; bhAsvatA--glowing.

 

 

CC Madhya 8.66:

 

<center>

prabhu kahe, "eho bAhya, Age kaha Ara"

rAya kahe,----

"jJAna-zUnyA bhakti

----sAdhya-sAra"

</center>

prabhu kahe--the Lord said; eho--this; bAhya--external; Age--ahead; kaha--speak; Ara--further; rAya kahe--RAmAnanda RAya replied;

jJAna-zUnyA bhakti--devotional service independent of logic and empiric philosophy

; sAdhya-sAra--the essence of the perfection of life.

After hearing this, the Lord, as usual, rejected it, considering it to be external devotional service. He again asked RAmAnanda RAya to speak further, and RAmAnanda RAya replied, "Pure devotional service without any touch of speculative knowledge is the essence of perfection."

 

[gHari 0]

"The Lord tells Arjuna that basically there is no possibility of understanding the Supreme Truth, the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, simply by speculating, for the Supreme Truth is so great that it is not possible to understand Him or to achieve Him simply by making a mental effort. Man can go on speculating for several millions of years, and if he is not devoted, if he is not a lover of the Supreme Truth, he will never understand Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Truth. Only by devotional service is the Supreme Truth, Kṛṣṇa, pleased, and <B>by His inconceivable energy He can reveal Himself to the heart of the pure devotee</B>. The pure devotee always has Kṛṣṇa within his heart; and with the presence of Kṛṣṇa, who is just like the sun, the darkness of ignorance is at once dissipated. This is the special mercy rendered to the pure devotee by Kṛṣṇa."

[gHari 0]

Taking both realized translations and the Purport As It Is, considering the previous verse I see it as perhaps Krsna is saying that to those who constantly worship Him with love, He gives buddhi-yogam (caitya-guru reveals through intelligence as described in the highlighted 10.11 purport segment), knowledge which will lead them free to Him; at which point He manifests His presence in their heart, dissipating the darkness, the sadness, the lonely desperate separation of the heart.

[theist 1]

 

both very beautiful, Theist.

 

By the way, I am reading over and over this wonderful small book by Srila Sridhara Deva Goswami Maharaja: Follow the Angels. It keeps reminding me of you, and your guru Gaura. His depth of perspective is so refreshing - it is like drinking concentrated humility, something we can none of us get enough of. He makes it a nectar so sweet and palatable.

 

gHari,

 

Yes both very beautiful. Makes me think that if one has the vision there might be many paralell verses to Krsna's words which become visible upon our gaining the spiritual vision to see them.

 

I am trying not to buy many books but Follow the Angels and His Graces BG are now on my list for sure.

 

Haribol

 

 

[theist 1]

 

"Any thoughts on that on that guest?" quote by theist

 

I have no thoughts on the underlined passage that I wish to share presently.

Sorry to diverge away from your line of questioning.

 

Sridhara Maharaja has written a nice commentary to 10.11 in his Hidden Treasure Bhagavad Gita which nicely explains the two different translations of the verse. Possibly I would recommend that you read this purport as it may assist in where you want to go with this thread.

 

The Hidden Treasure Bhagavad Gita can be read or downloaded at guardian-of-devotion dot de if you have not read it before. I hope it may be of some benefit to you in your studies.

 

No divergence, just expansion.

 

 

"I have no thoughts on the underlined passage that I wish to share presently."

 

I hope you will soon.

 

Thanks for sharing that and the purchase info. I have most of His Grace's books but not that one. Sometimes when I am feeling especially down I just open up Sri Guru and His Grace and read a page from wherever it opens up. Always encouraging and aspiring. Never fails.

[theist 1]

 

Taking both realized translations and the Purport As It Is, considering the previous verse I see it as perhaps Krsna is saying that to those who constantly worship Him with love, He gives buddhi-yogam (caitya-guru reveals through intelligence as described in the highlighted 10.11 purport segment), knowledge which will lead them free to Him; at which point He manifests His presence in their heart, dissipating the darkness, the sadness, the lonely desperate separation of the heart.

 

I agree. What struck me was Prabhupada saying that even if one didn't avail himself of shastra and guru Krsna would still enlighten the sincere soul.

[gHari 0]

It's on-line at my post's link in PDF, if you want to read it. Many more including the Gita can be downloaded free on-line at the Danish site mentioned by the guest.

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately Theist I am unable and not qualified to comment further on the wonderful divine verse (10.11) or the merciful Acarya's purports. So I can only hope to glean a snippett of the esoteric meaning of pure devotion alluded to in the commentaries.

But I feel that the verse in question is such a sacred verse and Sridhara Maharaja has brought out the inner meaning most beautifully.

Thus not being situated in this high level of devotion, how much more dependant are we on divine commentaries than on our own mental platform. I am sure you agree.

gHari's realizations in his comment gleans the inner meaning very nicely in relation to the pangs of separation the advanced devotee feels, and how the internal illumination of Krsna's presence eases these pangs. Everything is explained nicely in Sridhara Maharaja's purport. This verse (10.11) is very special, and Sridhara Maharaja explains how it relates to the previous verses

in his purport. So I will stop there.

 

Originally Posted by gHari

"Taking both realized translations and the Purport As It Is, ****considering the previous verse***** I see it as perhaps Krsna is saying that to those who constantly worship Him with love, He gives buddhi-yogam (caitya-guru reveals through intelligence as described in the highlighted 10.11 purport segment), knowledge which will lead them free to Him; at which point He manifests His presence in their heart, dissipating the darkness, the sadness, the lonely desperate separation of the heart."

[Guest guest]

Oh and yes. All of Sridhara Maharaja's books are free to download at guardian-of-devotion dot de . On the home page you may notice that a newly released book has been added to the list also.

[Guest guest]

Prabhupada joins Sridhara later in the purport.

 

"The Lord tells Arjuna that basically there is no possibility of understanding the Supreme Truth, the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, simply by speculating, for the Supreme Truth is so great that it is not possible to understand Him or to achieve Him simply by making a mental effort. Man can go on speculating for several millions of years, and if he is not devoted, if he is not a lover of the Supreme Truth, he will never understand Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Truth. Only by devotional service is the Supreme Truth, Kṛṣṇa, pleased, and by His inconceivable energy He can reveal Himself to the heart of the pure devotee. The pure devotee always has Kṛṣṇa within his heart; and with the presence of Kṛṣṇa, who is just like the sun, the darkness of ignorance is at once dissipated. This is the special mercy rendered to the pure devotee by Kṛṣṇa." quoted by gHari.

 

It is really interesting gHari about how close these two great writers may have been. I recall reading that when Sridhara Maharaja was writing his commentary on the Gita he was sharing a residence with Bhaktivedanta Maharaja. At one point on writing his realizations on the catur-sloki(which were very deep) he asked Bhaktivedanta Maharaja what his thoughts were on a particular point that he was explaining in his purport. Bhaktivedanta's reply to Sridhara's query was, "it can be nothing but this."

I can only speculate about the intimacy they must have shared living together while they were both writing their commentaries on the Gita. There is a book available(I do not know the title) that has many stories of AC Bhaktivedanta's relationships and pastimes with his Godbrothers. A friend of mine was telling me recently of some of the recollections in the book of these two great souls dealings with each other. The stories she shared were very sweet and wonderful. Jaya Sridhara Maharaja/Jaya Srila Prabhupada!