Varna first, then Asrama

[Guest guest]

On 10 Dec 1999, Harsi das wrote:

 

> > You will not find, HE said (not me, SP said), in all of human history, any

big scientist, big philosopher, etc., who was a woman. No, he said, you will

not find. All are men.

>

> Madeline Albright, oops but she is just foreign minister or so..

> "Behind every great man is a great woman" autor unknown

 

 

What of Queen Elizabeth I, or Queen Victoria. Catherine the Great was another

prominant monarch. Curiously, this statement attributed to Prabhupada appears

to be culled from a conversation as compared to something written in his

books, which we claim to be our lawbooks for the coming generations.

Conversations, letters and lectures are also important, though they are often

directed to a specific audience according to time and place.

[Guest guest]

>

> > Madeline Albright, oops but she is just foreign minister or so..

> > "Behind every great man is a great woman" autor unknown

>

> "Behind every great man is a woman telling him he's wrong!" (author: some

comedian whose name I no longer remember)

>

 

How about 'buzzing around every women trying to make an offering of 'external'

significance is a pack of naysayers who claim it can't be done'?

 

Actually, that doesn't apply only to woman, when you think about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..

[Guest guest]

>

> > Madeline Albright, oops but she is just foreign minister or so..

> > "Behind every great man is a great woman" autor unknown

>

> "Behind every great man is a woman telling him he's wrong!" (author: some

comedian whose name I no longer remember)

>

 

How about 'buzzing around every women trying to make an offering of 'external'

significance is a pack of naysayers who claim it can't be done'?

 

Actually, that doesn't apply only to woman, when you think about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..

[Guest guest]

On 9 Dec 1999, Jivan Mukta Dasa wrote:

 

 

>

> There was Indira Gandhi in Prabhupada's time. And what did he call her? A

whore.

>

> ys. JMd

 

 

Yeah, that's all she was. I bet when he met her in private he explained to her

why she was nothing but a useless.....

 

You know, Prabhupada could attract even boorish misoginists, he was so great!

 

ys,

 

Sthita

[Guest guest]

On 9 Dec 1999, Jivan Mukta Dasa wrote:

 

 

>

> There was Indira Gandhi in Prabhupada's time. And what did he call her? A

whore.

>

> ys. JMd

 

 

Yeah, that's all she was. I bet when he met her in private he explained to her

why she was nothing but a useless.....

 

You know, Prabhupada could attract even boorish misoginists, he was so great!

 

ys,

 

Sthita

[Guest guest]

>

> Then, what was the meaning of the statement (no time to look up now, so

> paraphrasing), when he spoke that his female disciples are not agitated for

'equal rights' because they are satisfied, being Krsna Conscious. He said

that they don't ask him to travel and preach like he does. They are

satisfied cooking and cleaning.... I guess SP must have been in maya when

he said that.

>

 

 

 

Yes, these may be our Vedic ideals as taught by Srila Prabhupada, but he

wasn't a boorish fanatic when it came time to get down to the real business of

engaging real live people in the real world of Krsna consciousness.

 

 

 

 

>

> I have not found one referrence where SP instructed that our daughters must

be trained to become like men. To become social leaders, or what ever.

>

 

 

 

This is all great stuff, no doubt. Still, considering our current social

situation, I agree that it would be a big step forward if we can learn to

train our men to act like men -- and then the woman can learn from their

husbands, right?

 

 

 

>

> So, yes, I have found really only one standard that he preached, the Vedic

standard. And for our children, our own daughters, that he instructed - train

them to become submissive wives - no school, school for girls is a mistake -

but, for these older women who were joining, for those he started the

brahmacarini ashrams, for those mataji's he made some concessions - if they

could not fully accept and follow the more strict Vedic standards.

>

> ys ameyatma

 

 

One problem we've found with brahmancarini ashramas for our daughters is that

they seem to attract certain balding middle aged men with the fantasy of

scoring a teenage wife. I wonder if it is better that certain woman stay at

home, or that certain men stay at home.

 

ys,

 

Sthita

[Guest guest]

>

> Then, what was the meaning of the statement (no time to look up now, so

> paraphrasing), when he spoke that his female disciples are not agitated for

'equal rights' because they are satisfied, being Krsna Conscious. He said

that they don't ask him to travel and preach like he does. They are

satisfied cooking and cleaning.... I guess SP must have been in maya when

he said that.

>

 

 

 

Yes, these may be our Vedic ideals as taught by Srila Prabhupada, but he

wasn't a boorish fanatic when it came time to get down to the real business of

engaging real live people in the real world of Krsna consciousness.

 

 

 

 

>

> I have not found one referrence where SP instructed that our daughters must

be trained to become like men. To become social leaders, or what ever.

>

 

 

 

This is all great stuff, no doubt. Still, considering our current social

situation, I agree that it would be a big step forward if we can learn to

train our men to act like men -- and then the woman can learn from their

husbands, right?

 

 

 

>

> So, yes, I have found really only one standard that he preached, the Vedic

standard. And for our children, our own daughters, that he instructed - train

them to become submissive wives - no school, school for girls is a mistake -

but, for these older women who were joining, for those he started the

brahmacarini ashrams, for those mataji's he made some concessions - if they

could not fully accept and follow the more strict Vedic standards.

>

> ys ameyatma

 

 

One problem we've found with brahmancarini ashramas for our daughters is that

they seem to attract certain balding middle aged men with the fantasy of

scoring a teenage wife. I wonder if it is better that certain woman stay at

home, or that certain men stay at home.

 

ys,

 

Sthita

[Guest guest]

>

>Madeline Albright, oops but she is just foreign minister or so..

>"Behind every great man is a great woman" autor unknown

 

Marie Curie (co-discovered radium), Amelia Erhardt (aviator), Clara

Barton (founded the American Red Cross) - or maybe they were really

men...

[Guest guest]

>

>Madeline Albright, oops but she is just foreign minister or so..

>"Behind every great man is a great woman" autor unknown

 

Marie Curie (co-discovered radium), Amelia Erhardt (aviator), Clara

Barton (founded the American Red Cross) - or maybe they were really

men...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/9/99 8:50:50 AM Central Standard Time, btb (AT) georgian (DOT) net

writes:

 

<< And in SP's own words, both in his first letters asking to start it, and in

1977, SP said that the brahmacarini ashram was artificial. So, where does

Mahatma get his discoveries from? >>

 

I think Mukunda Datta told me about this. Mukunda DAtta was it you? And if it

was can you add so more info about this?

 

<Vedic scripture, upon which Vedic culture is based, is for all mankind.

Where did SP say that the instructions of Narad Muni to Maharaj Yudisthira

regarding the qualities of a chaste woman and wife only apply to

non-devotees? Where did SP say that his instructions regarding how 'we' are

to train our daughters in the Dallas gurukula in 2 things, how to become

first-class cook and how to submissively serve their husbands somehow not

apply to our daughters but to the non-preachers?>

 

I guess it depends how literal you want to get. In New Vrndavana Prabhupada

said the women's duties would be to churn butter and one other service which

I can't remember. There was no mention about doing any of the things that the

women in Iskcon later ended up doing.

 

If Prabhupada wanted those girls in that school, he must have wanted them to

learn more than being chaste wives and good cooks, because those can be

learnt at home.Of course that can also be learned in school but obviously

those would not be the only subjects.

 

Otherwise, if women are not meant to be trained

> brahminically, why did Prabhupada give them brahminical initiation, have

> them

> attend classes, encourage them to preach, to deity worship, etc.?

>

<Then, what was the meaning of the statement (no time to look up now, so

paraphrasing), when he spoke that his female disciples are not agitated for

'equal rights' because they are satisfied, being Krsna Conscious. He said

that they don't ask him to travel and preach like he does. They are

satisfied cooking and cleaning.... I guess SP must have been in maya

when he said that.>

 

I don't understand how this addresses the point I made. It was Prabhupada who

encouraged the women to preach, attend classes, do puja in his temples (many

were head pujaris), etc.

 

 

< But, SP did not allow such

loose standards in the temples in India. Since enough people there

understood the higher standards, SP wanted that in India we also follow

those higher standards. In the West he made some consideration.

>

He also brought in brahmanas to do karma kanda yajnas for the opening of the

Vrndavana temple out of concern for what the public thought. But it doesn't

mean that he thought it is proper. So it doesn't necessarily mean that

Prabhupada thought it was not proper for women to do puja in India, what to

speak of do puja at all. If he did, why would let them do it in the rest of

the world?

 

But, SP did not allow such

loose standards in the temples in India. Since enough people there

understood the higher standards, SP wanted that in India we also follow

those higher standards. In the West he made some consideration.

 

Another devotee sent a post a few weeks ago saying that there were female

pujaris in the Calcutta while Prabhupada's was present.

 

Girls should remain at home, trained by the mother, how to cook, how to sew,

clean, take care of babies, serve their husbands. They don't need big big

education for this.

 

No one will argue with this if the girls are happy with this. But if they are

not, you run the risk that they could completely reject KC feeling forced by

their parents to focus on marrying at an early age, having kids, etc.

 

<And I say that this is also what he wanted for his direct disciples who

joined older in life as well, but due to the extra baggage they carried in

with them, due to their Western upbringing, some concessions had to be made.

>

My point above is that if you live in the West, even though you raise your

daughter to be a chaste wife, etc., it may not work due to the influence of

this culture and therefore you may have to be prepared to make adjustments as

you acknowledge that Prabhupada did. Try for first class but if you don't get

it, don't be a hardliner to the degree that it becomes counter productive .

 

<But, as he spoke in one lecture, and asked his lady disciples not to get

angry with him, but he said that shastra is actually only for the men.

Those who have large enough brain capacity to understand. Those with

smaller intelligence, the women, they must get married and serve their

husbands, but shastra and philosophical understanding, that is for the men.

You will not find, HE said (not me, SP said), in all of human history, any

big scientist, big philosopher, etc., who was a woman. No, he said, you will

not find. All are men.>

 

I'd like to see this. Can you find it and send it to the conference?

 

I know many ladies in Iskcon who have good brains for philosophy. Prabhupada

jokingly told Jadurani that when women join Iskcon their brains grow. BTW, I

don't think that 32 ounce thing is a Vedic statement. I think it was

something Prabhupad learned in school. Does anyone know anything about this?

 

 

Ys, Mahatma dasa

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/9/99 7:20:59 AM Central Standard Time,

Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes:

 

<< I think if you did a little research into this subject on

an SP Vedabase Folio, you might reconsider such an opinion. SP's

instruction above sounds like a "time & circumstance" instruction, rather

than a prinicple of vedic dharma & culture; which seems to be the opposite.

>>

It is interesting to note that in 1974 Prabhupada was so fed up with marriage

problems in Iskcon that he said that no one should ask him if they can marry.

This didn't mean no one could marry, but it sent a message that it is best to

avoid marriage. At least Prabhupada wasn't gong to give his blessings for any

more marriages.

 

Add to this Prabhupada's statement in the CC where he said all men should

remiain single. And he told the RDTSKP men that it is best if you don't

marry. If marriage is so vital a thing for women it seems ironic that

founder-acarya would encourg all it's male members to remain single making it

all the more difficult for women in Iskcon to find a husband.

 

I bring this up not because I think marriage is bad or to encourage women to

revolt against men, but to question your statement that Prabhupada was coming

to establish vedic dharma and culture in its entirety, particularly within

Iskcon. It seemed that Prabhupada was coming to establish whatever he felt

was best for making us KC.

 

Another example. Girtiraj Swami tells a story that when they were designing

the Bombay temple (I think was Boimbay, it could have been somewhere else),

someone mentioned (I think Bhakti Caru Swami) that the Deities were not

facing the proper direction and it was inauspicious. Prabhupada said

something like any direction Krsna is facing is auspicious. So he wasn't

overly concerned about this vedic standard.

 

I don't mean to say he wasn't concerned about culture and dharma, but we can

take it too far and this could make it counter productive. I think we have to

look at the subject more deeply than just saying that an insturction which

was not completely in line with vedic dharma and culture was a time and

circumstance instruction. It may have been but it may have not been. It may

have been an insight from Krsna how to spread KC.

 

Your servant,

 

Mahatma dasa

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/9/99 7:10:44 AM Central Standard Time, btb (AT) georgian (DOT) net

writes:

 

<<

How many brahmacarinis from the 70's remained brahmacarini? Why did

Prabhupada call it "artificial? Actually this question is answered in

section 3.6.1 (Brahmacarini is artificial) of the paper entitled

"Vaisnavism and Social Responsibility" which can be found at

http://www.ghqd.org in both downloadable zip and on-line formats.

>>

 

Prabhupada acknowledged that some women would not want to marry and thus did

not force them to marry. This has nothing to do with how many women remained

brahmacarinis. It was an allowance for those who wanted to do it. And some

did it and are still doing well to this day.

 

In the CC, Prabhupada says that every women should marry. So we see that what

Prabhupada applied in Iskcon was sometimes different from what was written in

his books. My point was that many instructions in his books are aimed at

creating an ideal society beyond the borders of Iskcon i.e. instructions for

people in general. So your insistence that Prabhupada wanted things that he

himself did not always strictly apply to devotees in Iskcon only goes to

prove my point.

 

Thank you for proving my point and inadvertently agreeing with me.

 

Ys, Mahatma dasa

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/9/99 8:50:50 AM Central Standard Time, btb (AT) georgian (DOT) net

writes:

 

<< And in SP's own words, both in his first letters asking to start it, and in

1977, SP said that the brahmacarini ashram was artificial. So, where does

Mahatma get his discoveries from? >>

 

I think Mukunda Datta told me about this. Mukunda DAtta was it you? And if it

was can you add so more info about this?

 

<Vedic scripture, upon which Vedic culture is based, is for all mankind.

Where did SP say that the instructions of Narad Muni to Maharaj Yudisthira

regarding the qualities of a chaste woman and wife only apply to

non-devotees? Where did SP say that his instructions regarding how 'we' are

to train our daughters in the Dallas gurukula in 2 things, how to become

first-class cook and how to submissively serve their husbands somehow not

apply to our daughters but to the non-preachers?>

 

I guess it depends how literal you want to get. In New Vrndavana Prabhupada

said the women's duties would be to churn butter and one other service which

I can't remember. There was no mention about doing any of the things that the

women in Iskcon later ended up doing.

 

If Prabhupada wanted those girls in that school, he must have wanted them to

learn more than being chaste wives and good cooks, because those can be

learnt at home.Of course that can also be learned in school but obviously

those would not be the only subjects.

 

Otherwise, if women are not meant to be trained

> brahminically, why did Prabhupada give them brahminical initiation, have

> them

> attend classes, encourage them to preach, to deity worship, etc.?

>

<Then, what was the meaning of the statement (no time to look up now, so

paraphrasing), when he spoke that his female disciples are not agitated for

'equal rights' because they are satisfied, being Krsna Conscious. He said

that they don't ask him to travel and preach like he does. They are

satisfied cooking and cleaning.... I guess SP must have been in maya

when he said that.>

 

I don't understand how this addresses the point I made. It was Prabhupada who

encouraged the women to preach, attend classes, do puja in his temples (many

were head pujaris), etc.

 

 

< But, SP did not allow such

loose standards in the temples in India. Since enough people there

understood the higher standards, SP wanted that in India we also follow

those higher standards. In the West he made some consideration.

>

He also brought in brahmanas to do karma kanda yajnas for the opening of the

Vrndavana temple out of concern for what the public thought. But it doesn't

mean that he thought it is proper. So it doesn't necessarily mean that

Prabhupada thought it was not proper for women to do puja in India, what to

speak of do puja at all. If he did, why would let them do it in the rest of

the world?

 

But, SP did not allow such

loose standards in the temples in India. Since enough people there

understood the higher standards, SP wanted that in India we also follow

those higher standards. In the West he made some consideration.

 

Another devotee sent a post a few weeks ago saying that there were female

pujaris in the Calcutta while Prabhupada's was present.

 

Girls should remain at home, trained by the mother, how to cook, how to sew,

clean, take care of babies, serve their husbands. They don't need big big

education for this.

 

No one will argue with this if the girls are happy with this. But if they are

not, you run the risk that they could completely reject KC feeling forced by

their parents to focus on marrying at an early age, having kids, etc.

 

<And I say that this is also what he wanted for his direct disciples who

joined older in life as well, but due to the extra baggage they carried in

with them, due to their Western upbringing, some concessions had to be made.

>

My point above is that if you live in the West, even though you raise your

daughter to be a chaste wife, etc., it may not work due to the influence of

this culture and therefore you may have to be prepared to make adjustments as

you acknowledge that Prabhupada did. Try for first class but if you don't get

it, don't be a hardliner to the degree that it becomes counter productive .

 

<But, as he spoke in one lecture, and asked his lady disciples not to get

angry with him, but he said that shastra is actually only for the men.

Those who have large enough brain capacity to understand. Those with

smaller intelligence, the women, they must get married and serve their

husbands, but shastra and philosophical understanding, that is for the men.

You will not find, HE said (not me, SP said), in all of human history, any

big scientist, big philosopher, etc., who was a woman. No, he said, you will

not find. All are men.>

 

I'd like to see this. Can you find it and send it to the conference?

 

I know many ladies in Iskcon who have good brains for philosophy. Prabhupada

jokingly told Jadurani that when women join Iskcon their brains grow. BTW, I

don't think that 32 ounce thing is a Vedic statement. I think it was

something Prabhupad learned in school. Does anyone know anything about this?

 

 

Ys, Mahatma dasa

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/9/99 7:20:59 AM Central Standard Time,

Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes:

 

<< I think if you did a little research into this subject on

an SP Vedabase Folio, you might reconsider such an opinion. SP's

instruction above sounds like a "time & circumstance" instruction, rather

than a prinicple of vedic dharma & culture; which seems to be the opposite.

>>

It is interesting to note that in 1974 Prabhupada was so fed up with marriage

problems in Iskcon that he said that no one should ask him if they can marry.

This didn't mean no one could marry, but it sent a message that it is best to

avoid marriage. At least Prabhupada wasn't gong to give his blessings for any

more marriages.

 

Add to this Prabhupada's statement in the CC where he said all men should

remiain single. And he told the RDTSKP men that it is best if you don't

marry. If marriage is so vital a thing for women it seems ironic that

founder-acarya would encourg all it's male members to remain single making it

all the more difficult for women in Iskcon to find a husband.

 

I bring this up not because I think marriage is bad or to encourage women to

revolt against men, but to question your statement that Prabhupada was coming

to establish vedic dharma and culture in its entirety, particularly within

Iskcon. It seemed that Prabhupada was coming to establish whatever he felt

was best for making us KC.

 

Another example. Girtiraj Swami tells a story that when they were designing

the Bombay temple (I think was Boimbay, it could have been somewhere else),

someone mentioned (I think Bhakti Caru Swami) that the Deities were not

facing the proper direction and it was inauspicious. Prabhupada said

something like any direction Krsna is facing is auspicious. So he wasn't

overly concerned about this vedic standard.

 

I don't mean to say he wasn't concerned about culture and dharma, but we can

take it too far and this could make it counter productive. I think we have to

look at the subject more deeply than just saying that an insturction which

was not completely in line with vedic dharma and culture was a time and

circumstance instruction. It may have been but it may have not been. It may

have been an insight from Krsna how to spread KC.

 

Your servant,

 

Mahatma dasa

[Guest guest]

>

>I know many ladies in Iskcon who have good brains for philosophy. Prabhupada

>jokingly told Jadurani that when women join Iskcon their brains grow. BTW, I

>don't think that 32 ounce thing is a Vedic statement. I think it was

>something Prabhupad learned in school. Does anyone know anything about this?

 

Yes, it was his biology professor from the Scottish college and that

reflected the state of science at the time. Srila Prabhu once

supplied us with more current numbers pointing out that 64 oz is

actually *gigantic* and not found in any humans. Apparently, the

male brain size is closer to 46 oz and that of the female about 42

oz, but as earlier pointed out here, a larger brain does not

necessarily equal greater intelligence.

 

ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

>

>I know many ladies in Iskcon who have good brains for philosophy. Prabhupada

>jokingly told Jadurani that when women join Iskcon their brains grow. BTW, I

>don't think that 32 ounce thing is a Vedic statement. I think it was

>something Prabhupad learned in school. Does anyone know anything about this?

 

Yes, it was his biology professor from the Scottish college and that

reflected the state of science at the time. Srila Prabhu once

supplied us with more current numbers pointing out that 64 oz is

actually *gigantic* and not found in any humans. Apparently, the

male brain size is closer to 46 oz and that of the female about 42

oz, but as earlier pointed out here, a larger brain does not

necessarily equal greater intelligence.

 

ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

>

> And in SP's own words, both in his first letters asking to start it, and

> in 1977, SP said that the brahmacarini ashram was artificial. So, where

> does Mahatma get his discoveries from? And, what sort of brahmacarini

> ashram is

 

Dear Trivikrama Maharaja

 

Please accept my respectfull obeisances

The comment you where sending from Ameyatma prabhu apeared without any

comment by you, does that mean that you support everything he said hearin

fully?

 

Your servant

Harsi das

[Guest guest]

>

> And in SP's own words, both in his first letters asking to start it, and

> in 1977, SP said that the brahmacarini ashram was artificial. So, where

> does Mahatma get his discoveries from? And, what sort of brahmacarini

> ashram is

 

Dear Trivikrama Maharaja

 

Please accept my respectfull obeisances

The comment you where sending from Ameyatma prabhu apeared without any

comment by you, does that mean that you support everything he said hearin

fully?

 

Your servant

Harsi das

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/9/1999 8:10:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,

btb (AT) georgian (DOT) net writes:

 

> How many brahmacarinis from the 70's remained brahmacarini? Why did

>Prabhupada call it "artificial? Actually this question is answered in

>section 3.6.1 (Brahmacarini is artificial) of the paper entitled

>"Vaisnavism and Social Responsibility" which can be found at

>http://www.ghqd.org in both downloadable zip and on-line formats.

 

Mataji,

 

How many brahmcaris remained brahmacari? How many took sanyasa and remained

in that ashram? How many took wives and stayed with the same wife? What is

your point?

 

The brahmacari / brahmacarini ashram is a temporary one for most devotees

and the fact that there are few if any brahmacarinis left in the ashram from

the 70's does not diminish the fact that Srila Prabhupada initiated it. If

the fact that there are not 50 year old brahmacarinis indicates the ashram is

artificial it appears that in this age remaining in the brahmacari ashram (

and the sannyasi ashram for that matter) also rather artificial .

 

<Every human being is supposed to come to the brahminical platform. This is

<further discussed in sections 1.2 (Vedic Culture), 1.5.2 (Stricter Policies

<for Sannyasa and Brahminical Initiation), and 3.5.2 (Brahmana on Spiritual

<Platform Only) of the VSR paper.

 

In this lifetime? Slinging around these designations in the form of judgement

is what really appears to be artificial. What if your husband is a vaisa or

a sudra? Mine appears to be and I find it a daily exercise to control my mind

and not be disatisfied with that designation because he is a good man and is

actually trying to be a vaisnava. Actually in this day and age rising to the

platform of sudra or vaisa is an accomplishment. All of this emphasis on

varna rather than devotional is detrimental to our community. Self

rightousness is not a brahminical quality that I have heard of. If you feel

you are in the Brahminical varna act like it. ys, Kanti dasi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/9/1999 8:10:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,

btb (AT) georgian (DOT) net writes:

 

> How many brahmacarinis from the 70's remained brahmacarini? Why did

>Prabhupada call it "artificial? Actually this question is answered in

>section 3.6.1 (Brahmacarini is artificial) of the paper entitled

>"Vaisnavism and Social Responsibility" which can be found at

>http://www.ghqd.org in both downloadable zip and on-line formats.

 

Mataji,

 

How many brahmcaris remained brahmacari? How many took sanyasa and remained

in that ashram? How many took wives and stayed with the same wife? What is

your point?

 

The brahmacari / brahmacarini ashram is a temporary one for most devotees

and the fact that there are few if any brahmacarinis left in the ashram from

the 70's does not diminish the fact that Srila Prabhupada initiated it. If

the fact that there are not 50 year old brahmacarinis indicates the ashram is

artificial it appears that in this age remaining in the brahmacari ashram (

and the sannyasi ashram for that matter) also rather artificial .

 

<Every human being is supposed to come to the brahminical platform. This is

<further discussed in sections 1.2 (Vedic Culture), 1.5.2 (Stricter Policies

<for Sannyasa and Brahminical Initiation), and 3.5.2 (Brahmana on Spiritual

<Platform Only) of the VSR paper.

 

In this lifetime? Slinging around these designations in the form of judgement

is what really appears to be artificial. What if your husband is a vaisa or

a sudra? Mine appears to be and I find it a daily exercise to control my mind

and not be disatisfied with that designation because he is a good man and is

actually trying to be a vaisnava. Actually in this day and age rising to the

platform of sudra or vaisa is an accomplishment. All of this emphasis on

varna rather than devotional is detrimental to our community. Self

rightousness is not a brahminical quality that I have heard of. If you feel

you are in the Brahminical varna act like it. ys, Kanti dasi

[Guest guest]

> >

> > And in SP's own words, both in his first letters asking to start it, and

> > in 1977, SP said that the brahmacarini ashram was artificial. So,

> > where does Mahatma get his discoveries from? And, what sort of

> > brahmacarini ashram is

>

> Dear Trivikrama Maharaja

>

> Please accept my respectfull obeisances

> The comment you where sending from Ameyatma prabhu apeared without any

> comment by you, does that mean that you support everything he said hearin

> fully?

>

> Your servant

> Harsi das

 

Not necessarily. Just facilitating the debate.

Ys TS

[Guest guest]

> >

> > And in SP's own words, both in his first letters asking to start it, and

> > in 1977, SP said that the brahmacarini ashram was artificial. So,

> > where does Mahatma get his discoveries from? And, what sort of

> > brahmacarini ashram is

>

> Dear Trivikrama Maharaja

>

> Please accept my respectfull obeisances

> The comment you where sending from Ameyatma prabhu apeared without any

> comment by you, does that mean that you support everything he said hearin

> fully?

>

> Your servant

> Harsi das

 

Not necessarily. Just facilitating the debate.

Ys TS

[Guest guest]

> >Madeline Albright, oops but she is just foreign minister or so.. "Behind

> >every great man is a great woman" autor unknown

>

> Marie Curie (co-discovered radium), Amelia Erhardt (aviator), Clara

> Barton (founded the American Red Cross) - or maybe they were really men...

 

Mummies inhabited ancient Egypt and they all wrote in hydraulics. They

lived in the Sarah Dessert and travelled by Camelot. The climate of the

Sarah is such that the inhabitants have to live elsewhere.

 

Moses led the Hebrew slaves to the Red Sea, where they made unleavened bread

which is bread made without any ingredients. Moses went up on Mount Cyanide

to get the ten commandments. He died before he ever reached Canada.

Solomon had three hundred wives and seven hundred porcupines.

 

The Greeks also had myths. A myth is a female moth.

 

Actually, Homer was not written by Homer but by another man of that name.

 

Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went around giving people advice.

They killed him. Socrates died from an overdose of wedlock. After his

death, his career suffered a dramatic decline.

 

History calls people Romans because they never stayed in one place for very

long.

 

Magna Carter provided that no man should be hanged twice for the same

offence.

 

Another story was William Tell, who shot an arrow through an apple while

standing on his son's head.

 

Sir Walter Raleigh is a historical figure because he invented cigarettes and

started smoking. And Sir Francis Drake circumcised the world with a 100

foot clipper.

 

Writing at the same time as Shakespeare was Miguel Cervantes. He wrote

Donkey Hote. The next great author was John Milton. Milton wrote Paradise

Lost. Then his wife died and he wrote Paradise Regained.

 

The winter of 1620 was a hard one for the settlers. Many people died and

many babies were born. Captain John Smith was responsible for all this.

 

One of the causes of the Revolutionary War was the English put tacks in

their tea. Also, the colonists would send their parcels through the post

without stamps. Finally the colonists won the War and no longer had to pay

for taxis.

 

Franklin discovered electricity by rubbing two cats backwards and declared,

'A horse divided against itself cannot stand.' Franklin died in 1790 and is

still dead.

 

Abraham Lincoln became America's greatest Precedent. Lincoln's mother died

in infancy, and he was born in a log cabin which he built with his own

hands.

 

Gravity was invented by Isaac Walton. It is chiefly noticeable in the

autumn when the apples are falling off the trees.

 

Johann Bach wrote a great many musical compositions and had a large number

of children. In between he practiced on an old spinster which he kept up in

his attic. Bach died from 1750 to the present. Bach was the most famous

composer in the world and so was Handel. Handel was half German half

Italian and half English. He was very large. Beethoven wrote music even

though he was deaf. He was so deaf he wrote loud music.

 

The sun never sets on the British Empire because the British Empire is in

the East and the sun sets in the West.

 

Queen Victoria was the longest queen. She sat on a thorn for 63 years. She

was a moral woman who practiced virtue. Her death was the final event which

ended her reign.

 

COMPILATION OF ACTUAL STUDENT GCSE ANSWERS IN THE UK

[Guest guest]

> >Madeline Albright, oops but she is just foreign minister or so.. "Behind

> >every great man is a great woman" autor unknown

>

> Marie Curie (co-discovered radium), Amelia Erhardt (aviator), Clara

> Barton (founded the American Red Cross) - or maybe they were really men...

 

Mummies inhabited ancient Egypt and they all wrote in hydraulics. They

lived in the Sarah Dessert and travelled by Camelot. The climate of the

Sarah is such that the inhabitants have to live elsewhere.

 

Moses led the Hebrew slaves to the Red Sea, where they made unleavened bread

which is bread made without any ingredients. Moses went up on Mount Cyanide

to get the ten commandments. He died before he ever reached Canada.

Solomon had three hundred wives and seven hundred porcupines.

 

The Greeks also had myths. A myth is a female moth.

 

Actually, Homer was not written by Homer but by another man of that name.

 

Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went around giving people advice.

They killed him. Socrates died from an overdose of wedlock. After his

death, his career suffered a dramatic decline.

 

History calls people Romans because they never stayed in one place for very

long.

 

Magna Carter provided that no man should be hanged twice for the same

offence.

 

Another story was William Tell, who shot an arrow through an apple while

standing on his son's head.

 

Sir Walter Raleigh is a historical figure because he invented cigarettes and

started smoking. And Sir Francis Drake circumcised the world with a 100

foot clipper.

 

Writing at the same time as Shakespeare was Miguel Cervantes. He wrote

Donkey Hote. The next great author was John Milton. Milton wrote Paradise

Lost. Then his wife died and he wrote Paradise Regained.

 

The winter of 1620 was a hard one for the settlers. Many people died and

many babies were born. Captain John Smith was responsible for all this.

 

One of the causes of the Revolutionary War was the English put tacks in

their tea. Also, the colonists would send their parcels through the post

without stamps. Finally the colonists won the War and no longer had to pay

for taxis.

 

Franklin discovered electricity by rubbing two cats backwards and declared,

'A horse divided against itself cannot stand.' Franklin died in 1790 and is

still dead.

 

Abraham Lincoln became America's greatest Precedent. Lincoln's mother died

in infancy, and he was born in a log cabin which he built with his own

hands.

 

Gravity was invented by Isaac Walton. It is chiefly noticeable in the

autumn when the apples are falling off the trees.

 

Johann Bach wrote a great many musical compositions and had a large number

of children. In between he practiced on an old spinster which he kept up in

his attic. Bach died from 1750 to the present. Bach was the most famous

composer in the world and so was Handel. Handel was half German half

Italian and half English. He was very large. Beethoven wrote music even

though he was deaf. He was so deaf he wrote loud music.

 

The sun never sets on the British Empire because the British Empire is in

the East and the sun sets in the West.

 

Queen Victoria was the longest queen. She sat on a thorn for 63 years. She

was a moral woman who practiced virtue. Her death was the final event which

ended her reign.

 

COMPILATION OF ACTUAL STUDENT GCSE ANSWERS IN THE UK

[Guest guest]

On 09 Dec 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote:

 

> > "Behind every great man is a woman telling him he's wrong!" (author: some

> comedian whose name I no longer remember)

> >

> How about 'buzzing around every women trying to make an offering of

'external'

> significance is a pack of naysayers who claim it can't be done'?

>

> Actually, that doesn't apply only to woman, when you think about it.

 

Geez, is the JOKES conference the only one where attempts at humor are

allowed? I thought that the word "comedian" above was sufficient to tip off

the reader that the comedian's quoted words were meant as *humor*.

 

OK, I know what to do:

 

"Behind every great man is a woman telling him he's wrong!" (author: some

comedian whose name I no longer remember)

 

DISCLAIMER: The above quote ***should not be misconstrued!!!*** as misogynist

pathology, but rather as a benign attempt at humor.

 

--gkd&