A/ Women in leading positions.

[Guest guest]

At 12:00 AM -0300 12/7/99, COM: Sridhari (dd) JPS (Mendoza - ARG) wrote:

>[Text 2836922 from COM]

 

>There are many ladies who are spiritually advanced

>> and can help in managing society.

 

>One thing is to help their husbands and another is to do it by their own.

 

>> I am not intending anything. If a man is qualified he can do it, if a

>> woman is qualified she can do it.

 

>yes, woman can do it ONLY as a service to help her husband managing

>service, other way she cann't. Good if you are not intending but many women

>within ISKCON yes are intending it.

>

>ys, Sridhari devi dasi

 

Very nice Mother Sridhari. Where there is life, there is hope.

 

ys. JMd

[Guest guest]

At 12:00 AM -0300 12/7/99, COM: Sridhari (dd) JPS (Mendoza - ARG) wrote:

>[Text 2836922 from COM]

 

>There are many ladies who are spiritually advanced

>> and can help in managing society.

 

>One thing is to help their husbands and another is to do it by their own.

 

>> I am not intending anything. If a man is qualified he can do it, if a

>> woman is qualified she can do it.

 

>yes, woman can do it ONLY as a service to help her husband managing

>service, other way she cann't. Good if you are not intending but many women

>within ISKCON yes are intending it.

>

>ys, Sridhari devi dasi

 

Very nice Mother Sridhari. Where there is life, there is hope.

 

ys. JMd

[Guest guest]

>> You DID compare them you state: "...This statement is an

> insult to my beloved Vrinda devi "

> Yes, the statement "woman in leading position is dangerous" is an insult

>to my beloved Vrinda devi. She is a woman and she is in a leading position,

>and she is not dangerous.

 

You are comparing apples and oranges.

 

> I mean YES to Srila Prabhupada. If Srila Prabhupada should be the role

>model then we should immedietely close all the ashram gurukulas, because he

>never went to one.

 

Not so. He created them! Are you serious?

 

> Yes, I am speaking about ladies in the WEST ISKCON managing. They are head

>pujaris, they are head cooks, they are in the boards.

> Examples: Ganga devi, unmarried, head pujari and head cook (Their

>Lordships Sri Sri Gandharvika-Giridhari), Sriprada dd, unmarried, head

>pujari and head cook (Their Lordships Sri Sri Panca-tattva), Savitri dd,

>married, (her husband is not managing) the chief and the executive of the

>managment board here in Gothenburg, has her own shop by the side too. Almvik

>board (half of the members men, half women). I don't know which kind of

>universe you are living in, but I am in this one.

>

> By the way, if you have so many qualified men, why don't you send some

>over here, we are in lack of it.

 

The men will forever be apathetic to protect women and to serve in

managerial roles when women are there like this.

 

>> yes, woman can do it ONLY as a service to help her husband managing

>> service, other way she cann't.

 

> Your statement that they can't do it, doesn't stop them doing it. I gave

>you the examples. They are over here and they are doing it, no matter what

>you say.

 

Who put them in those positions? Harikesa?

 

Ys, Sdd

[Guest guest]

>

> Who put them in those positions? Harikesa?

>

No, Krishna. I am serious. (You know why? Because there are the most

qualified ones around, and they can do it.)

Ys. Sraddha dd

[Guest guest]

>

> Who put them in those positions? Harikesa?

>

No, Krishna. I am serious. (You know why? Because there are the most

qualified ones around, and they can do it.)

Ys. Sraddha dd

[Guest guest]

> We should send our children to collages to get the proper education and

> be prepared to economically take care of their families in the future.

 

We should all play soccer if we haven't already because that is what he did.

[Guest guest]

> We should send our children to collages to get the proper education and

> be prepared to economically take care of their families in the future.

 

We should all play soccer if we haven't already because that is what he did.

[Guest guest]

----------

> De: COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA)

<Madhava.Gosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

> A: COM: DMW (Dharma of Men and Women) <DMW (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: India

(Continental Committee) Open (Forum) <India.Open (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Varnasrama

development <Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP

(Baroda - IN) <Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

> Asunto: Re: A/ Women in leading positions.

> Fecha: Miércoles 8 de Diciembre de 1999 10:00

>

> [Text 2841113 from COM]

>

> > We should send our children to collages to get the proper education

and

> > be prepared to economically take care of their families in the future.

>

> We should all play soccer if we haven't already because that is what he

did.

 

He was born a Vaisnava and you don't.

 

ys, Sridhari dd

[Guest guest]

----------

> De: COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA)

<Madhava.Gosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

> A: COM: DMW (Dharma of Men and Women) <DMW (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: India

(Continental Committee) Open (Forum) <India.Open (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Varnasrama

development <Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP

(Baroda - IN) <Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

> Asunto: Re: A/ Women in leading positions.

> Fecha: Miércoles 8 de Diciembre de 1999 10:00

>

> [Text 2841113 from COM]

>

> > We should send our children to collages to get the proper education

and

> > be prepared to economically take care of their families in the future.

>

> We should all play soccer if we haven't already because that is what he

did.

 

He was born a Vaisnava and you don't.

 

ys, Sridhari dd

[Guest guest]

>

> > We should all play soccer if we haven't already because that is what he

> did.

>

> He was born a Vaisnava and you don't.

>

> ys, Sridhari dd

 

Therefore I see that I will have to play much more soccer to make up for that.

(Have fun quoting that one, GHQers)

[Guest guest]

>

> > We should all play soccer if we haven't already because that is what he

> did.

>

> He was born a Vaisnava and you don't.

>

> ys, Sridhari dd

 

Therefore I see that I will have to play much more soccer to make up for that.

(Have fun quoting that one, GHQers)

[Guest guest]

On 9 Dec 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote:

 

> Therefore I see that I will have to play much more soccer to make up for

that. (Have fun quoting that one, GHQers)

 

Better to follow, not imitate, isn't it. Did Srila Prabhupada ever instruct

any of his disciples to play soccer?

[Guest guest]

On 9 Dec 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote:

 

> Therefore I see that I will have to play much more soccer to make up for

that. (Have fun quoting that one, GHQers)

 

Better to follow, not imitate, isn't it. Did Srila Prabhupada ever instruct

any of his disciples to play soccer?

[Guest guest]

On 08 Dec 1999, Sridhari dd wrote:

 

 

> >

> > We should all play soccer if we haven't already because that is what he

did.

>

> He was born a Vaisnava and you don't.

>

>

 

 

May we all take birth as such Vaisnava soccer players. I believe playing

goalie is considered particularly transcendental.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..

[Guest guest]

On 08 Dec 1999, Sridhari dd wrote:

 

 

> >

> > We should all play soccer if we haven't already because that is what he

did.

>

> He was born a Vaisnava and you don't.

>

>

 

 

May we all take birth as such Vaisnava soccer players. I believe playing

goalie is considered particularly transcendental.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..

[Guest guest]

On 9 Dec 1999, Guru-Krsna das wrote:

 

>

> Better to follow, not imitate, isn't it. Did Srila Prabhupada ever instruct

any of his disciples to play soccer?

>

 

 

Maybe not, but he did seem to enjoy telling his disciples about how he grew up

as a Vaisnava. In other words, Gour Mohan De, his pure devotee father, didn't

appear to have philosophical coniptions about this particular activity.

 

ys,

 

Sthita- 'kick the ball' dhi

[Guest guest]

On 9 Dec 1999, Guru-Krsna das wrote:

 

>

> Better to follow, not imitate, isn't it. Did Srila Prabhupada ever instruct

any of his disciples to play soccer?

>

 

 

Maybe not, but he did seem to enjoy telling his disciples about how he grew up

as a Vaisnava. In other words, Gour Mohan De, his pure devotee father, didn't

appear to have philosophical coniptions about this particular activity.

 

ys,

 

Sthita- 'kick the ball' dhi

[Guest guest]

On 07 Dec 1999, Sita Devi Dasi wrote:

 

 

>

> > I mean YES to Srila Prabhupada. If Srila Prabhupada should be the role

model then we should immedietely close all the ashram gurukulas, because he

never went to one.

>

> Not so. He created them! Are you serious?

>

 

Another question might be -- Are you serious? It sounds like you might have

missed her point.

 

 

 

>

> The men will forever be apathetic to protect women and to serve in

> managerial roles when women are there like this.

>

 

I think if the individual shows actual qualifications for doing the service

successfully, people with find something to respect -- that is, as long as

they are not obsessed with envy.

 

 

ys,

 

Sthita

[Guest guest]

On 07 Dec 1999, Sita Devi Dasi wrote:

 

 

>

> > I mean YES to Srila Prabhupada. If Srila Prabhupada should be the role

model then we should immedietely close all the ashram gurukulas, because he

never went to one.

>

> Not so. He created them! Are you serious?

>

 

Another question might be -- Are you serious? It sounds like you might have

missed her point.

 

 

 

>

> The men will forever be apathetic to protect women and to serve in

> managerial roles when women are there like this.

>

 

I think if the individual shows actual qualifications for doing the service

successfully, people with find something to respect -- that is, as long as

they are not obsessed with envy.

 

 

ys,

 

Sthita

[Guest guest]

On 09 Dec 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote:

 

>Maybe but he did seem to enjoy telling his disciples about how he grew >up as

a Vaisnava. In other words, Gour Mohan De, his pure devotee >father, didn't

appear to have philosophical coniptions about this >particular activity.

 

> Sthita- 'kick the ball' dhi

 

Thanks, Sthita. I don't mind giving a good swift kick at the ball:

 

When long-haired "disciples" argumentatively cited Srila Prabhupada's

mustachioed "madhya-lila" as bona fide precedent for their own long hair,

Srila Prabhupada told them that he wore mustache *before* his initiation--not

after. Our founder-acarya has clearly differentiated between the prior and

post life of an initiated Vaisnava. So is it not now very clear that after

intiation, disciples of Srila Prabhupada may not contradict his instructions

by claiming to be following in the footsteps of his pre-initiation lila?

 

--gkd

[Guest guest]

On 09 Dec 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote:

 

>Maybe but he did seem to enjoy telling his disciples about how he grew >up as

a Vaisnava. In other words, Gour Mohan De, his pure devotee >father, didn't

appear to have philosophical coniptions about this >particular activity.

 

> Sthita- 'kick the ball' dhi

 

Thanks, Sthita. I don't mind giving a good swift kick at the ball:

 

When long-haired "disciples" argumentatively cited Srila Prabhupada's

mustachioed "madhya-lila" as bona fide precedent for their own long hair,

Srila Prabhupada told them that he wore mustache *before* his initiation--not

after. Our founder-acarya has clearly differentiated between the prior and

post life of an initiated Vaisnava. So is it not now very clear that after

intiation, disciples of Srila Prabhupada may not contradict his instructions

by claiming to be following in the footsteps of his pre-initiation lila?

 

--gkd

[Guest guest]

On 09 Dec 1999, Guru-Krsna Dasa wrote:

 

 

>

> When long-haired "disciples" argumentatively cited Srila Prabhupada's

> mustachioed "madhya-lila" as bona fide precedent for their own long hair,

Srila Prabhupada told them that he wore mustache *before* his initiation--not

after. Our founder-acarya has clearly differentiated between the prior and

post life of an initiated Vaisnava. So is it not now very clear that after

intiation, disciples of Srila Prabhupada may not contradict his instructions

by claiming to be following in the footsteps of his pre-initiation lila?

>

> --gkd

>

 

 

Of course, we consider Prabhupada as someone born a pure devotee Vaisnava, so

that can also be considered. Further, Prabhupada's disciples at the time were

basically brahmanacaris, where they not?

 

In any event, I am not a particular fan of mustaches. But for the most part,

the children playing soccer might also be considered 'pre-initiated'.

 

ys,

 

Sthita-dhi

[Guest guest]

On 09 Dec 1999, Guru-Krsna Dasa wrote:

 

 

>

> When long-haired "disciples" argumentatively cited Srila Prabhupada's

> mustachioed "madhya-lila" as bona fide precedent for their own long hair,

Srila Prabhupada told them that he wore mustache *before* his initiation--not

after. Our founder-acarya has clearly differentiated between the prior and

post life of an initiated Vaisnava. So is it not now very clear that after

intiation, disciples of Srila Prabhupada may not contradict his instructions

by claiming to be following in the footsteps of his pre-initiation lila?

>

> --gkd

>

 

 

Of course, we consider Prabhupada as someone born a pure devotee Vaisnava, so

that can also be considered. Further, Prabhupada's disciples at the time were

basically brahmanacaris, where they not?

 

In any event, I am not a particular fan of mustaches. But for the most part,

the children playing soccer might also be considered 'pre-initiated'.

 

ys,

 

Sthita-dhi

[Guest guest]

On 09 Dec 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote:

 

> On 07 Dec 1999, Sita Devi Dasi wrote:

 

> > The men will forever be apathetic to protect women and to serve in

> > managerial roles when women are there like this.

> I think if the individual shows actual qualifications for doing the service

successfully, people with find something to respect

 

The point wasn't about respect; it was about *protection.* And that statement

is corroborated by SP himself, by his saying that "as constituted by bodily

frame" a man wants to be in the superior position.

 

So on the one hand we have Vaisnavis pleading for protection; on the other,

vying for power--a guaranteed lose-lose situation. They'll not get protection

by competing with their protectorates, because it "just ain't no fun" for a

man to try to protect a contrary-minded subordinate. And they won't get power

either, because the power of a woman is her shyness. If that weren't already

bad en

[Guest guest]

On 09 Dec 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote:

 

> On 07 Dec 1999, Sita Devi Dasi wrote:

 

> > The men will forever be apathetic to protect women and to serve in

> > managerial roles when women are there like this.

> I think if the individual shows actual qualifications for doing the service

successfully, people with find something to respect

 

The point wasn't about respect; it was about *protection.* And that statement

is corroborated by SP himself, by his saying that "as constituted by bodily

frame" a man wants to be in the superior position.

 

So on the one hand we have Vaisnavis pleading for protection; on the other,

vying for power--a guaranteed lose-lose situation. They'll not get protection

by competing with their protectorates, because it "just ain't no fun" for a

man to try to protect a contrary-minded subordinate. And they won't get power

either, because the power of a woman is her shyness. If that weren't already

bad en