Guest guest Report post Posted November 21, 1999 Mahananda das wrote: > In a message dated 11/21/1999 1:00:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Babhru.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes: > > > I'm not sure where you live or of the extent of your experience with > > university life; however, I've taught at a university for the last 10 > > years, and I'd like to assure you that students certainly may and do > > criticize their professors without fear of sanction by the university. > > There may be some etiquette involved (although that is certainly > > changing), but such challenge is considered part of the academic > > process. It's not a prison. > > > > Your servant, > > Babhru das > > So, we do not care what goes on in mundane educational institutes where > the so called teachers are drinkers, smokers, animal killers, etc., where > the challenging nondevotee students of nescience with no concept of > respect for a learned soul resembles a free for all. So, you may not care, thats your free will and your business, but why speak for someone else who may care. Prabhupada said that one can learn something even from a dog, so why not from a "so called teacher" at university? > A sincere Vaisnava understands that the path of transcendental knowledge > is completely different from so-called education of the demoniac society. A sincere Vaisnava understands also the art of tolerance and he is not a religious fanatic. > For real knowledge to transpire, there have to be two stipulations, Srila > Prabhupada explains in the First Canto in the Srimad Bhagavatam. First, > the speaker must be qualified. This means that the speaker must be a > bonafide representative of the line of knowledge from Krsna and the > speaker is a transcendentally realized soul who is repeating everything > without any change. That may be so, but should he therefore be just a robot who repeats something without using his own intelect and power of discrimination? > Next, the second qualification is the that the hearer must be submissive. > He must hear with humility and submission, and service to the realized > soul. This is required. Without such submission and humility, or without > the speaker being Krsna's representative, then transcendental knowledge > cannot be received. > Challenging spirit, arrogance, lack of humility...these are all there in > the mundane academic atmosphere where materialists approach unqualified > and sinful men for some scientific knowledge for sense gratification. Ok, so who invented and constructed the computer that you use to argue against this so called "unqualified and sinful man". If they would not have invented and build it, I would not even know that you exist. > So although you teach at a university, I hope you do not think that what > is going on there is in any way similar to the transcendental process of > the absolute truth being passed down through disciplic succession from > fully realized souls who are not touched by material nature. So would you say that Srila Prabhupada was never touched by material nature in his whole life also he lived an ordinary life with family, eleven children I think, made a lot of money by buisness in order to maintain his family? I would rather say he gave the perfect example how to go through material life and give it up at the end of ones life, reaching spiritual perfection in complete Krsna consciousness, but I may be wrong at this point. > I am surprised that so many devotees are defending the right of a second > generation disciple to express their doubts of Srila Prabhupada's > transcendental nature in such a manner as to be offensive according to > Vaisnava philosophy. > > Mahananda dasa Offense, Offense when will it end...? Respectfully, Harsi das Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 21, 1999 At 02:21 PM 11/21/99 +0100, COM: Harsi (das) HKS (Timisoara - RO) wrote: >[Text 2796308 from COM] > >Mahananda das wrote: > >> In a message dated 11/21/1999 1:00:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, >> Babhru.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes: >> >> > I'm not sure where you live or of the extent of your experience with >> > university life; however, I've taught at a university for the last 10 >> > years, and I'd like to assure you that students certainly may and do >> > criticize their professors without fear of sanction by the university. >> > There may be some etiquette involved (although that is certainly >> > changing), but such challenge is considered part of the academic >> > process. It's not a prison. >> > >> > Your servant, >> > Babhru das >> >> So, we do not care what goes on in mundane educational institutes where >> the so called teachers are drinkers, smokers, animal killers, etc., where >> the challenging nondevotee students of nescience with no concept of >> respect for a learned soul resembles a free for all. > >So, you may not care, thats your free will and your business, but why speak >for someone else who may care. Actually, I only care to the extent that what Vidvan Gauranga prabhu said simply isn't the case. The cross-posting of Dhyandakunda's remarks makes her an easy target for devotees whowant to assert their superiority. As far as I'm concerned, teaching at the university is just a job. Whan I'm able to figure out a way to get by without doing that, I'd much prefer to teach Krishna consciousness. To answer Mahananda prabhu's worry that I might somehow equate what's going on at the university with the transmission of transcendental knowledge among qualified vaishanvas, no, I don't. I've read Drilla Prabhupada's books, and I was with Srila Prabhupada at the Univesity of Hawaii when a student asked him what was wrong with becoming a dog in your next life, something Srila Prabhupada expressed amazement at sometimes. And I'm well aware that there's no department of spiritual inquiry at my university. It's just my job. So you can relax on that count. Sheesh! Your unqualified and sinful servant, Babhru das Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 21, 1999 > > > > A sincere Vaisnava understands that the path of transcendental knowledge > > is completely different from so-called education of the demoniac society. Different does not mean mutually exclusive. They are actually so different, you can't even place them in opposition , one to the other. A Chevy car is completely different from the color blue, yet we can have a blue Chevy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 22, 1999 > > Actually "garbage" (synonym of trash) is an acceptable and appropriate term even in the highest forums of technology. Mabye for Billy G., but for us? > > Similarly, when one doubts the position of the spiritual master or the > founder-acarya and considers him to be "inconsistent", the spiritual content of all her output, writing, etc produced in that consciousness will be as Vidvan Gauranga Prabhu termed it. Pick your choice: trash, rubbish, garbage. > Fortunately or unfortunately, I missed the bliss of getting to see the original erroneous post, and I find myself wondering how many of the other participants in this discourse actually read it either. In any event, sometimes it is better to deal with doubts up front rather than to pretend they are not there. I mean, if we were that free of doubts, what the heck are we doing in the material world in the first place. Geex, if this mataji actually expressed something horrible about her appreciation for Srila Prabhupada -- I say so what? It's not my personal problem and it doesn't effect my personal convictions. I mean in this day and age, 'new bhaktas' as well as old bhaktas hear so many things -- in case you haven't heard. Sometimes better that we hear about it and then learn to deal with it rationally, rather than we try to pretend such issues and people with such issues do not exist. Better to train our devotees with the philosphical tools to progressively deal with such issues, rather than simply offer a bunch of over-zeleous dogmatic knee-jerk pontification. Of course, I would never dream that any of us would ever act like that on an elevated conference such as this. In any event, since our GHQ types are so much more advanced, who cares what the matajis have to say, anyway? > > > Maybe English isn't this prabhus first > > language, but he might be accused of talking like an American football player. > > It would be highly flattering for the average American footballer if his colorful language is limited to just words like "trash" etc. In fact it would highly flattering for the average American (karmi). Period. > > Your servant, > Goloka Candra dasa Gosh, I'm feeling flattered already! ys, Sthita-dhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 22, 1999 > > > > > > Maybe English isn't this prabhus first > > > language, but he might be accused of talking like an American football > player. > > > > It would be highly flattering for the average American footballer if his > colorful language is limited to just words like "trash" etc. In fact it would > highly flattering for the average American (karmi). Period. > > > > Your servant, > > Goloka Candra dasa Dear Goloka Apparently English isn't your first language, as "trash talking " to a footballer has a very sprcific meaning, refering to a particular genre of expression meant to make your opponent angry and break his focus on the game so you can take an advantage. As far as trying to rationalize calling someone's opinions "Trash" as flattering - give us a break, please. As for your put down on the language useage of an entire population, which quality of a devotee were you manifesting there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 22, 1999 In a message dated 11/21/1999 8:30:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, Harsi.HKS (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes: > > Offense, Offense when will it end...? > > Respectfully, > Harsi das > Probably when grand disciples learn how to act properly and not feel they have to pick apart every post they have some disagreement with. To be honest I don't even know you and I don't care for your argumentativeness. Try and give some worthwhile philosophy by repeating your guru's transcendental teachings and don't waste your valuable time in challenging everyone. So what you don't agree with the way I wrote my text? It would help if you would explain to me who you are so I can understand if I should respectfully receive instructions from a senior Vaisnava and if there is need, submissively correct myself. But if you are a junior upstart who thinks he can just attack anyone, godbrother, godbrother of your guru, new devotee, old devotee, anyone, as long as you can argue loudest, regardless of respect and Vaisnava etiquette, they why get into it. It is destructive to Srila Prabhupada's purpose, self serving, and itself leading to offenses. Do me a favor and just think about it without some clever reply, and we will just drop the subject. Rather than just taking apart other's writings, try and write something worthwhile that will help others remember Krsna. If you are sincere and want to actually propagate Krsna consciousness and goodwill, why not start from there. I will do the same. Of course, if you cannot resist and need to get off another round, I will understand. Mahananda dasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 22, 1999 I can't think any good reason why i shouldn't drop out of all conferences and try and improve my devotional service somehow. Therefore, anyone who can do it, please remove me from any or all conferences that i am d to. Respectfully Mahananda dasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 22, 1999 > > > > Maybe English isn't this prabhus first > > > > language, but he might be accused of talking like an American > > > > football > > player. > > > > > > It would be highly flattering for the average American footballer if > > > his > > colorful language is limited to just words like "trash" etc. In fact it > > would highly flattering for the average American (karmi). Period. > > > > > > Your servant, > > > Goloka Candra dasa > > Dear Goloka > > Apparently English isn't your first language, aha, here comes a white knight charging in to the defence of his accomplices. Question is, where was he when somebody was insulting his spiritual master and some others were trying to rationalize it? > as "trash talking " to a > footballer has a very sprcific meaning, refering to a particular genre > of expression meant to make your opponent angry and break his focus on the > game so you can take an advantage. Thanks for the education. So we are agreed on this point - that "trash" is a term in common usage, not only in hi-tech but also in that sacred topmost showpiece of American culture - football. Nothing vulgar about the word, right? So kindly explain why you and some others are kicking up a fuss over it? > As far as trying to rationalize calling someone's opinions "Trash" as > flattering - give us a break, please. > > As for your put down on the language useage of an entire population, > which quality of a devotee were you manifesting there? Poetic? No? (Seriously though, the intent was not to put down an entire population, but to show that it begins to sound like a lame excuse when people keep blamimg careless writing on English not being a first language. This thread alone had many such utterances, and you added one more to the count with with your opening line. This is not the issue being discussed, only somebody who wants to divert the issues would resort to such tactics). Goloka Candra dasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 22, 1999 >> it begins to sound like a lame excuse when people keep blamimg careless writing on English not being a first language>> OK, would you rather we criticize devotees for careless writing as opposed to giving them the benefit of the doubt? I guess I could handle that. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 22, 1999 > > > Dear Goloka > > > > Apparently English isn't your first language, > > aha, here comes a white knight charging in to the defence of his > accomplices. Question is, where was he when somebody was insulting his > spiritual master and some others were trying to rationalize it? How wonderful of you to provide an example of trash talking. This is quite a good one - all the elements are there. The "white knight" thing and "insulting the spiritual master" combine both irrelevnce and insult to my intelligence. > > Thanks for the education. So we are agreed on this point - that "trash" is a > term in common usage, not only in hi-tech but also in that sacred topmost > showpiece of American culture - football. Nothing vulgar about the word, > right? So kindly explain why you and some others are kicking up a fuss over > it? The issue was not the vulgarity of expression, rather the vulgarity of the content. > > As for your put down on the language useage of an entire population, > > which quality of a devotee were you manifesting there? > > Poetic? No? Trash talking devotees Always putting down Are so very expert At eliciting a frown How could your post be poetic? It lacked rythym rhyme and soul Yes, I would prefer football To the dogma that is your goal So if you think you were poetic I suggest you reassess Not only what is poetry But all your "Vedic" mess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 22, 1999 On 21 Nov 1999, Mahananda1 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: > I can't think any good reason why i shouldn't drop out of all conferences > and try and improve my devotional service somehow. Therefore, anyone who > can do it, please remove me from any or all conferences that i am > d to. Respectfully Mahananda dasa Dear Mahananda Prabhu and all Respected Vaishnavas, Hare Krsna! All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! All Glories to Guru and Gauranga! Please accept my most humble obeisances. I am begging forgiveness, in advance, for any offenses I may commit towards the Vaishnavas by writing this post and beg the understanding of all readers. Mahananda Prabhu, I can think of one reason (perhaps not a good one) why you should not drop out of these discussions. Please indulge my ramblings below, and if you are inspired please instruct me (and others) with your understanding of Krsna consciousness from Srila Prabhupada. [bhaktin Bev's ramblings] It appears the infamous post by Dhyanakunda devi dasi has illicited hundreds (perhaps thousands) of responses in many conferences on COM. There is a great deal of anger, passion, emotion, etc. being expressed both in favor of and against the ideas in her post. Personally, I was surprised at the tone and manner of the post itself, not necessarily the 'doubts' raised. But, being a new bhaktin, I do not have the fund of knowledge to understand my reaction to her post nor to answer her points. The only rationalization I could come to was that, to me, the post did not read as an inquiry to clear doubts about philosophy but as a critical analysis of the spiritual master's habits or behavior. This is my opinion, as insignificant as it may be. And, quite frankly, if that is the way Dhyanakunda dd has chosen to express herself then who am I to judge her judgement? Better for her spiritual master and senior vaishnavas to answer her. However, there still remain important points brought out by her post that are being obliterated by the barrage of 'tit for tat' posts. Only a very few vaishnavas have even addressed these issues. They are delineate below in the hopes that some kind vaishnava would find it in his/her heart to instruct this insignificant aspiring servant. 1) How are we to ask questions of a sensitive nature without being offensive? 2) How are we to view apparent "imperfections" in the spiritual master's habits or behavior? and indirectly, 3) How are we to determine the bona fide spiritual master who can remove our doubts and bring us back home, to Godhead? As some have pointed out, vaishnava ettiquete is not always observed when communicating via this electronic media. Though my hopes are of no importance to anyone but me, I still am hoping for examples of such ettiquete to form the basis for my behavior and dealings. With all respect and gratitude for the Vaishnava devotees of the Lord, I remain... aspiring to be a servant, bhaktin bev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 22, 1999 On 21 Nov 1999, Mahananda1 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: > I can't think any good reason why i shouldn't drop out of all conferences > and try and improve my devotional service somehow. Therefore, anyone who > can do it, please remove me from any or all conferences that i am > d to. Respectfully Mahananda dasa Dear Mahananda Prabhu and all Respected Vaishnavas, Hare Krsna! All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! All Glories to Guru and Gauranga! Please accept my most humble obeisances. I am begging forgiveness, in advance, for any offenses I may commit towards the Vaishnavas by writing this post and beg the understanding of all readers. Mahananda Prabhu, I can think of one reason (perhaps not a good one) why you should not drop out of these discussions. Please indulge my ramblings below, and if you are inspired please instruct me (and others) with your understanding of Krsna consciousness from Srila Prabhupada. [bhaktin Bev's ramblings] It appears the infamous post by Dhyanakunda devi dasi has illicited hundreds (perhaps thousands) of responses in many conferences on COM. There is a great deal of anger, passion, emotion, etc. being expressed both in favor of and against the ideas in her post. Personally, I was surprised at the tone and manner of the post itself, not necessarily the 'doubts' raised. But, being a new bhaktin, I do not have the fund of knowledge to understand my reaction to her post nor to answer her points. The only rationalization I could come to was that, to me, the post did not read as an inquiry to clear doubts about philosophy but as a critical analysis of the spiritual master's habits or behavior. This is my opinion, as insignificant as it may be. And, quite frankly, if that is the way Dhyanakunda dd has chosen to express herself then who am I to judge her judgement? Better for her spiritual master and senior vaishnavas to answer her. However, there still remain important points brought out by her post that are being obliterated by the barrage of 'tit for tat' posts. Only a very few vaishnavas have even addressed these issues. They are delineate below in the hopes that some kind vaishnava would find it in his/her heart to instruct this insignificant aspiring servant. 1) How are we to ask questions of a sensitive nature without being offensive? 2) How are we to view apparent "imperfections" in the spiritual master's habits or behavior? and indirectly, 3) How are we to determine the bona fide spiritual master who can remove our doubts and bring us back home, to Godhead? As some have pointed out, vaishnava ettiquete is not always observed when communicating via this electronic media. Though my hopes are of no importance to anyone but me, I still am hoping for examples of such ettiquete to form the basis for my behavior and dealings. With all respect and gratitude for the Vaishnava devotees of the Lord, I remain... aspiring to be a servant, bhaktin bev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 22, 1999 > > > A sincere Vaisnava understands that the path of transcendental > > > knowledge is completely different from so-called education of the > > > demoniac society. > > Different does not mean mutually exclusive. They are actually so > different, you can't even place them in opposition , one to the other. > > A Chevy car is completely different from the color blue, yet we can > have a blue Chevy. Nice analogy, if the terms are all unrelated. Ok, now back to the topic under discussion. Prove that it can be applied to show how "a sincere Vaishnava on the path of transcendental knowledge" is not mutually exclusive (as you claim) with "so-called education of the demoniac society." Mahananda Prabhu has given you some descriptive words to play with on the education of demoniac society. > Challenging spirit, arrogance, lack of humility...these are all there in > the mundane academic atmosphere where materialists approach unqualified > and sinful men for some scientific knowledge for sense gratification. Let's shuffle them around and come up with combinations befitting your blue Chevy example: "sincere Vaishnava with arrogance", or "sincere Vaishnava with lack of humility", or "sincere Vaishnava approaches unqualified and sinful men for some scientific knowledge for sense gratification." Still makes sense to you? Goloka Candra dasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 22, 1999 > > > Nice analogy, if the terms are all unrelated. > Ok, now back to the topic under discussion. Prove that it can be applied to > show how "a sincere Vaishnava on the path of transcendental knowledge" is > not mutually exclusive (as you claim) with "so-called education of the > demoniac society." Certainly. For instance, there is no example of computer useage in traditional literature. Computers are the product of "demoniac" society, and the education of how to use them is "so -called education". It is not directly Vaisnava literature. Yet we can see that Vaisnavas are using computers, and availing themselves of that education. so it follow that they are not mutually exclusive. > > > Mahananda Prabhu has given you some descriptive words to play with on the > education of demoniac society. > > Challenging spirit, arrogance, lack of humility...these are all there in > > the mundane academic atmosphere where materialists approach unqualified > > and sinful men for some scientific knowledge for sense gratification. > > Let's shuffle them around and come up with combinations befitting your blue > Chevy example: "sincere Vaishnava with arrogance", or "sincere Vaishnava > with lack of humility", or "sincere Vaishnava approaches unqualified and > sinful men for some scientific knowledge for sense gratification." > > Still makes sense to you? > > Goloka Candra dasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 22, 1999 > > > Different does not mean mutually exclusive. They are actually so > > different, you can't even place them in opposition , one to the other. > > > > A Chevy car is completely different from the color blue, yet we can > > have a blue Chevy. > > Nice analogy, if the terms are all unrelated. > Ok, now back to the topic under discussion. Prove that it can be applied > to show how "a sincere Vaishnava on the path of transcendental knowledge" > is not mutually exclusive (as you claim) with "so-called education of the > demoniac society." > What about Srila Prabhupada? I hope that we all can agree that he was and is a sincere Vaishnava. He went to a university and took demoniac education (in order to support his family in the future). Did he become a demon? And what about stoping being so proud and thinking that we are better than anybody else in the world? And what about instead of demonizing somebody for going to a karmi university give him a chance to go to a wonderful Vaishnava university? Where are all those Vaishnava colleges that Srila Prabhupada wonted? Is ISKCON able to give any kind of education for its members that will help them later on maintain their families? If we are not supposed to go out and get the education and some kind of economical basis, and ISKCON is not able to give education and economical support for its members, are we supposed to live under a tree and starve. Maybe living under a tree works in those tropical countries, but over here living under a tree is not a very pleasant experience, especially when it gets -20 C in the winter. What about the yukta-vairagya principle? Using everything in Krishnas service? If we are only able to see demons everywhere, maybe there is something wrong with our eyeglasses. As Vaishnavas we are supposed to wear the trinad-api sunicena glasses and see everybody and everything in conection to Krishna. Ys. Sraddha dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 23, 1999 > Trash talking devotees > Always putting down > Are so very expert > At eliciting a frown > > How could your post be poetic? > It lacked rythym rhyme and soul > Yes, I would prefer football > To the dogma that is your goal > > So if you think you were poetic > I suggest you reassess > Not only what is poetry > But all your "Vedic" mess East is East, West is West and the twain shall never meet To the world, Kipling's words rang truest till Prabhupada came and shattered the myth Alas now, in the very house that he built There are those who try to show him wrong Instead of cowering in unbecoming guilt Now's the time to march, where are the strong? Keeping quiet when guru's defamed, ain't just bad karma You become party to silent complicity While loudly berating those preaching the Vedic dharma Shows you up in shameless duplicity - Goloka Candra dasa - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 23, 1999 Mahananda Prabhu, By condescending to answer his arguments, you are again showering your compassion on somebody who in his last post tried to prove that he is incapable of distinguishing the difference between the process of acquiring material knowledge and the process of acquiring spiritual knowledge. Your servant, Goloka Candra dasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 23, 1999 > > Nice analogy, if the terms are all unrelated. > > Ok, now back to the topic under discussion. Prove that it can be applied > > to show how "a sincere Vaishnava on the path of transcendental > > knowledge" is not mutually exclusive (as you claim) with "so-called > > education of the demoniac society." > > Certainly. For instance, there is no example of computer useage in > traditional literature. Computers are the product of "demoniac" > society, and the education of how to use them is "so -called education". > It is not directly Vaisnava literature. Yet we can see that Vaisnavas > are using computers, and availing themselves of that education. so it > follow that they are not mutually exclusive. You are cheating on the posted rules which already defined the so-called education of demoniac society as (I repeat): "approaching unqualified and sinful men for some scientific knowledge for sense gratification". The qualifier "for sense gratification" is missing in your examples on education obviously because "Vaisnava" and "sense gratification" are mutually exclusive. Wanna try again? > > Mahananda Prabhu has given you some descriptive words to play with on > > the education of demoniac society. > > > Challenging spirit, arrogance, lack of humility...these are all there > > > in the mundane academic atmosphere where materialists approach > > > unqualified and sinful men for some scientific knowledge for sense > > > gratification. > > > > Let's shuffle them around and come up with combinations befitting your > > blue Chevy example: "sincere Vaishnava with arrogance", or "sincere > > Vaishnava with lack of humility", or "sincere Vaishnava approaches > > unqualified and sinful men for some scientific knowledge for sense > > gratification." > > > > Still makes sense to you? > > > > Goloka Candra dasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 23, 1999 > > > > > Different does not mean mutually exclusive. They are actually so > > > different, you can't even place them in opposition , one to the > > > other. > > > > > > A Chevy car is completely different from the color blue, yet we > > > can have a blue Chevy. > > > > Nice analogy, if the terms are all unrelated. > > Ok, now back to the topic under discussion. Prove that it can be applied > > to show how "a sincere Vaishnava on the path of transcendental > > knowledge" is not mutually exclusive (as you claim) with "so-called > > education of the demoniac society." > > > What about Srila Prabhupada? I hope that we all can agree that he was and > is a sincere Vaishnava. He went to a university and took demoniac > education (in order to support his family in the future). Did he become a > demon? No, you missed our point about the "so-called education of demoniac society" although it was posted in the text you are commenting on. I repeat the definition (courtesy Mahananda Prabhu): "approaching unqualified and sinful men for some scientific knowledge for SENSE GRATIFICATION". This has nothing to bear with learning mundance knowledge to utilise it in higher service. Your servant, Goloka Candra dasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 23, 1999 > > Keeping quiet when guru's defamed, ain't just bad karma > You become party to silent complicity > While loudly berating those preaching the Vedic dharma > Shows you up in shameless duplicity > > - Goloka Candra dasa - While defaming the guru is certainly lame, there are some who wish to meditate on the alleged defamation of others endlessly. Kinda reminds me of the story of the brahmana and the prostitute. ys, Sthita .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 23, 1999 On 23 Nov 1999, Goloka Candra wrote: > Mahananda Prabhu, > By condescending to answer his arguments, you are again showering your > compassion on somebody who in his last post tried to prove that he is > incapable of distinguishing the difference between the process of acquiring material knowledge and the process of acquiring spiritual knowledge. > > Your servant, > Goloka Candra dasa Yes, I agree that Mahananda Prabhu's mercy is unlimited! He is certainly a viable link in the condenscending descending process! .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 23, 1999 On 22 Nov 1999, Bev Baker-Ajene wrote: > It appears the infamous post by Dhyanakunda devi dasi has illicited hundreds (perhaps thousands) of responses in many conferences on COM. There is a great deal of anger, passion, emotion, etc. being expressed both in favor of and against the ideas in her post. Personally, I was surprised at the tone and manner of the post itself, not necessarily the 'doubts' raised. > I recall hearing Bambi, or was it Thumper, who said that sometimes it is not what you say, but how you say it that counts. Same thing with the eloquent 'trash' post. ys, Sthita .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 23, 1999 > > > East is East, West is West > and the twain shall never meet > To the world, Kipling's words rang truest > till Prabhupada came and shattered the myth East is East, West is West and the twain shall never meet Til Prabhupad meet Kipling And that myth he did defeat (just a suggestion) > > > Alas now, in the very house that he built > There are those who try to show him wrong > Instead of cowering in unbecoming guilt > Now's the time to march, where are the strong? > > Keeping quiet when guru's defamed, ain't just bad karma > You become party to silent complicity > While loudly berating those preaching the Vedic dharma > Shows you up in shameless duplicity > > - Goloka Candra dasa - Good effort. However: According to the Vedas No sannyasa should cross the ocean That Srila Prabhupada did so Has generated a lot of emotion Srila Prabhupada Myth unmaker Became the bridge A new way maker He abandoned the moribound Broke free from sex and caste He based the new on quality Brought spiritual equality at last Some see him With material eyes And measure him With guna eyes They apply the mundane benchmark Demand he never made a mistake And any who can't accept that Over the coals they rake They are expert At seeing fault Then they attack Never do they halt The poor devotees trying to preach To devotees not yet made Bear the brunt of this energy Which throws the sunshine into shade They are told Not to try make clear To the outsiders Why it seems impure But Srila Prabhupada himself Said Vaisnavas aren't compared By normal mundane standards So his disciples should be prepared Material mistakes Don't limit him That is hard to see When faith is slim His glory is in the sampradaya And his adherence to it's aim Of passing down the Truth And all it's glorious fame He sees himself As a mere peon A position I won't flee on He is a wondrous glorious man Not God nor a messiah either So stop demanding material perfection And give us all a breather Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 23, 1999 > > > You are cheating on the posted rules which already defined the so-called > education of demoniac society as (I repeat): "approaching unqualified and > sinful men for some scientific knowledge for sense gratification". The > qualifier "for sense gratification" is missing in your examples on education > obviously because "Vaisnava" and "sense gratification" are mutually > exclusive. > > Wanna try again? I can accept that definition. Can Mahananda? Perhaps I mistook that he was applying the demoniac brush to all mundane education. In which case I apologise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 23, 1999 > > > > > > East is East, West is West > > and the twain shall never meet > > To the world, Kipling's words rang truest > > till Prabhupada came and shattered the myth > > East is East, West is West > and the twain shall never meet > Til Prabhupad meet Kipling > And that myth he did defeat > > (just a suggestion) > > > > > > > > Alas now, in the very house that he built > > There are those who try to show him wrong > > Instead of cowering in unbecoming guilt > > Now's the time to march, where are the strong? > > > > Keeping quiet when guru's defamed, ain't just bad karma > > You become party to silent complicity > > While loudly berating those preaching the Vedic dharma > > Shows you up in shameless duplicity > > > > - Goloka Candra dasa - > > Good effort. > > However: > > > According to the Vedas > No sannyasa should cross the ocean > That Srila Prabhupada did so > Has generated a lot of emotion > > Srila Prabhupada > Myth unmaker > Became the bridge > A new way maker > > He abandoned the moribound > Broke free from sex and caste > He based the new on quality > Brought spiritual equality at last > > Some see him > With material eyes > And measure him > With guna eyes > > They apply the mundane benchmark > Demand he never made a mistake > And any who can't accept that > Over the coals they rake > > They are expert > At seeing fault > Then they attack > Never do they halt > > The poor devotees trying to preach > To devotees not yet made > Bear the brunt of this energy > Which throws the sunshine into shade > > They are told > Not to try make clear > To the outsiders > Why it seems impure > > But Srila Prabhupada himself > Said Vaisnavas aren't compared > By normal mundane standards > So his disciples should be prepared > > Material mistakes > Don't limit him > That is hard to see > When faith is slim > > His glory is in the sampradaya > And his adherence to it's aim > Of passing down the Truth > And all it's glorious fame > > He sees himself > As a mere peon > A position > I won't flee on > > He is a wondrous glorious man > Not God nor a messiah either > So stop demanding material perfection > And give us all a breather I too need a breather. So you win. Your output is prolific. Goloka Candra dasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
