URGENT: GBC must implement varnasrama-dharma

[Guest guest]

>

> Why should Chairman Vad Mao let a little thoughtfulness get in the way of

> a good whining. The facts so often just get in the way.

 

 

What nonsense is this...

Are this objective arguments regarding varnasrama?

 

 

 

..

[Guest guest]

On 05 Aug 1999, Harsi das wrote:

 

> >

> > Why should Chairman VAD Mao let a little thoughtfulness get in the way of

a good whining. The facts so often just get in the way.

>

>

> What nonsense is this...

> Are this objective arguments regarding varnasrama?

>

>

 

 

No, it is a comment on some peoples vision of how to best establish KC,

especially in the lives of others. VAD is a powerful system for organizing

society along devotional lines and as such needs to be deeply understood and

appreciated, as well as practically applied according to time and place with

regards to our experience and realization. It is a natural issue that we all

need to deal with on some level -- unless, of course, we find ourselves the

benefactors of a big inheritance -- materially, that is.

 

For others, and I wasn't refering to your good self, it might appear as if it

were a fashionable excuse to instituationalize a new bunch of passionate

self-righteous boobs as our reality referees.

 

Heck, we've been there and done that. For the new millenium why not try

something a little different in our KC -- variety is the mother of enjoyment,

etc.

 

ys,

 

Sthita- 'comrade' dhi-muni

[Guest guest]

On 05 Aug 1999, Harsi das wrote:

 

> >

> > Why should Chairman VAD Mao let a little thoughtfulness get in the way of

a good whining. The facts so often just get in the way.

>

>

> What nonsense is this...

> Are this objective arguments regarding varnasrama?

>

>

 

 

No, it is a comment on some peoples vision of how to best establish KC,

especially in the lives of others. VAD is a powerful system for organizing

society along devotional lines and as such needs to be deeply understood and

appreciated, as well as practically applied according to time and place with

regards to our experience and realization. It is a natural issue that we all

need to deal with on some level -- unless, of course, we find ourselves the

benefactors of a big inheritance -- materially, that is.

 

For others, and I wasn't refering to your good self, it might appear as if it

were a fashionable excuse to instituationalize a new bunch of passionate

self-righteous boobs as our reality referees.

 

Heck, we've been there and done that. For the new millenium why not try

something a little different in our KC -- variety is the mother of enjoyment,

etc.

 

ys,

 

Sthita- 'comrade' dhi-muni

[Guest guest]

On 02 Aug 1999, Janesvara Dasa wrote:

> Pure devotional service means following the orders of the spiritual master.

You cannot separate the two. Srila Prabhupada said at length and in detail how

to divide the society into four varnas and he ordered that the GBC start

varnasrama colleges in EVERY center of the movement.

 

My comment:

As detailed throughout Prabhupada's books, Srila Rupa Goswami has given us a

comprehensive definition of what "pure devotional service" means:

 

anyabhilasita-sunyam

jnana-karmady anavrtam

anukulyena krsnanu

silanam bhaktir uttamam

 

Simply performing a "favorable" (anukulyena) service or a desirable activity

does NOT in itself constitute "pure devotional service". One has to act

without any extraneous motive for self-satisfaction, what to speak of

committing offenses (aparadhas).

 

Canura, Mustika, and many other demons undoubtedly pleased Krsna by their

inimical activity of fighting, but we can hardly applaud these demons as "pure

devotees" in their performance of such "service." They were offensive and

ill-motivated. Despite their extraordinary fortune to be personally killed by

Krsna, we do not recognize them as *suddha-bhaktas*.

 

Similarly, simply distributing books, an activity certainly pleasing to Srila

Prabhupada, is not in itself, "pure devotional service". If the mere activity

of distributing books was actually pure devotion, then why did we see so many

big book distributors come and go? Why so many books ended up in the garbage

and at garage sales? Distributing books is in theory very pleasing to Srila

Prabhupada, but the mere activity of distributing books ("by hook or by

crook") does not count, in itself, as pure devotional service as per Rupa

Goswami's definition.

 

Furthermore, Bhaktivinode Thakura in his Bhakti-tattva-viveka, and as

explained variously by Srila Prabhupada, has analyzed that performance of

duties under *varna-asrama* comes under the heading of *karma*. In order to

execute pure bhakti, however, one must perform all activites free of any

extraneous material conception or desire for KARMA, piety,

etc -- *jnana-KARMAdy anavrtam.*

 

Devotional service is not just about the activity; indeed, it is the mood or

consciousenss that the service is performed in that may be more important.

Even the activity may be defective, Krsna is more concerned with our

consciousness. Krsna accepted the offering of banana *peels* from Kolaveca

Sridara as pure devotional service.

 

VAD certainly promotes *piety* (good karma) within society but not necessarily

pure bhakti. Suddha-bhakti arises only as a consequence from the association

of suddha-bhaktas. We should therefore be more concerned about finding a

society of pure devotees, then VAD society will emerge as a natural

corrollary.

 

Our primary goal and desire is to become pure bhaktas, not recreate a modern

version of the caste system. If establishing VAD will facilitate the practice

of devotion on a larger scale, then we should get organized into communities

and do whatever is practical and necessary. That is where effective management

(such as a GBC) can play a critical role, as I think Janesvara painfully

realizes. Lacking inspired leadership and an involved membership, however,

isolated (albeit frustrated) individuals can do very little on their own to

push forward VAD -- except cry in the wilderness.

 

(Cooperation, anyone?)

 

One last point: Offensiveness will get us less than nowhere in devotional

service. Maintaining a haughty attitude and disparaging mood towards others

will deprive us of bhakti despite our better intentions.

 

If the GBC is negligent in guiding the society properly, then we can try to

enlighten them by our honest endeavors and personal influence. Interpersonal

dealings are a function of the personalities, power and relationship. But at

last straws, if other people don't act to the standard we expect of them or

they refuse to respond or take good advice, then the only choice left for us

is to show a better example and find those whom we CAN work with amicably.

That's how Prabhupada instructed us and the example he showed. We should

humbly try to follow in his footsteps and avoid criticizing others.

 

The more we understand that advancement in Krsna consciousness depends more

upon ourselves and those with whom we can personally associate -- not upon an

overly centralized bureaucratic body, which Prabhupada consistently

deplored -- the more we will see it blossom, both individually and

collectively. We cannot blame others for the lack of Krsna consciousness in

our lives. We have only to look at ourselves and see what we are doing and how

we are associating.

 

We need to find pure devotees and associate with them. That is the one-stop

answer to all our spiritual and social ills. Or at least, we can join a

community of like-minded souls -- even materially that will make us happier

than griping about "the way things oughta be..."

 

Heroes ACT. And they certainly don't waste their valuable time complaining.

*Carpe diem*.

 

As I write to you, I also instruct myself.

 

Thank you for the opportunity you have provided to remind myself and uplift my

own rascal mind from its foolishness.

 

Respectfully,

 

Srila dasa

 

Hare Krsna.

 

> HAS THIS BEEN DONE IN THE LAST 25 YEARS? Please answer this.

 

> NO ONE is arguing against devotional service. Varnasrama on the order of the

spiritual master IS pure devotional service.

 

>

> Varnasrama was a very, very favorite "issue" of Srila Prabhupada. He

> considered it wholely HALF of his entire mission. Yet we don't give it the

time of day. Cows continue to die. Children sexually molested in this society

of people "doing pure devotional service" for the last 25 years. What a

fricking JOKE!

[Guest guest]

On 02 Aug 1999, Janesvara Dasa wrote:

> Pure devotional service means following the orders of the spiritual master.

You cannot separate the two. Srila Prabhupada said at length and in detail how

to divide the society into four varnas and he ordered that the GBC start

varnasrama colleges in EVERY center of the movement.

 

My comment:

As detailed throughout Prabhupada's books, Srila Rupa Goswami has given us a

comprehensive definition of what "pure devotional service" means:

 

anyabhilasita-sunyam

jnana-karmady anavrtam

anukulyena krsnanu

silanam bhaktir uttamam

 

Simply performing a "favorable" (anukulyena) service or a desirable activity

does NOT in itself constitute "pure devotional service". One has to act

without any extraneous motive for self-satisfaction, what to speak of

committing offenses (aparadhas).

 

Canura, Mustika, and many other demons undoubtedly pleased Krsna by their

inimical activity of fighting, but we can hardly applaud these demons as "pure

devotees" in their performance of such "service." They were offensive and

ill-motivated. Despite their extraordinary fortune to be personally killed by

Krsna, we do not recognize them as *suddha-bhaktas*.

 

Similarly, simply distributing books, an activity certainly pleasing to Srila

Prabhupada, is not in itself, "pure devotional service". If the mere activity

of distributing books was actually pure devotion, then why did we see so many

big book distributors come and go? Why so many books ended up in the garbage

and at garage sales? Distributing books is in theory very pleasing to Srila

Prabhupada, but the mere activity of distributing books ("by hook or by

crook") does not count, in itself, as pure devotional service as per Rupa

Goswami's definition.

 

Furthermore, Bhaktivinode Thakura in his Bhakti-tattva-viveka, and as

explained variously by Srila Prabhupada, has analyzed that performance of

duties under *varna-asrama* comes under the heading of *karma*. In order to

execute pure bhakti, however, one must perform all activites free of any

extraneous material conception or desire for KARMA, piety,

etc -- *jnana-KARMAdy anavrtam.*

 

Devotional service is not just about the activity; indeed, it is the mood or

consciousenss that the service is performed in that may be more important.

Even the activity may be defective, Krsna is more concerned with our

consciousness. Krsna accepted the offering of banana *peels* from Kolaveca

Sridara as pure devotional service.

 

VAD certainly promotes *piety* (good karma) within society but not necessarily

pure bhakti. Suddha-bhakti arises only as a consequence from the association

of suddha-bhaktas. We should therefore be more concerned about finding a

society of pure devotees, then VAD society will emerge as a natural

corrollary.

 

Our primary goal and desire is to become pure bhaktas, not recreate a modern

version of the caste system. If establishing VAD will facilitate the practice

of devotion on a larger scale, then we should get organized into communities

and do whatever is practical and necessary. That is where effective management

(such as a GBC) can play a critical role, as I think Janesvara painfully

realizes. Lacking inspired leadership and an involved membership, however,

isolated (albeit frustrated) individuals can do very little on their own to

push forward VAD -- except cry in the wilderness.

 

(Cooperation, anyone?)

 

One last point: Offensiveness will get us less than nowhere in devotional

service. Maintaining a haughty attitude and disparaging mood towards others

will deprive us of bhakti despite our better intentions.

 

If the GBC is negligent in guiding the society properly, then we can try to

enlighten them by our honest endeavors and personal influence. Interpersonal

dealings are a function of the personalities, power and relationship. But at

last straws, if other people don't act to the standard we expect of them or

they refuse to respond or take good advice, then the only choice left for us

is to show a better example and find those whom we CAN work with amicably.

That's how Prabhupada instructed us and the example he showed. We should

humbly try to follow in his footsteps and avoid criticizing others.

 

The more we understand that advancement in Krsna consciousness depends more

upon ourselves and those with whom we can personally associate -- not upon an

overly centralized bureaucratic body, which Prabhupada consistently

deplored -- the more we will see it blossom, both individually and

collectively. We cannot blame others for the lack of Krsna consciousness in

our lives. We have only to look at ourselves and see what we are doing and how

we are associating.

 

We need to find pure devotees and associate with them. That is the one-stop

answer to all our spiritual and social ills. Or at least, we can join a

community of like-minded souls -- even materially that will make us happier

than griping about "the way things oughta be..."

 

Heroes ACT. And they certainly don't waste their valuable time complaining.

*Carpe diem*.

 

As I write to you, I also instruct myself.

 

Thank you for the opportunity you have provided to remind myself and uplift my

own rascal mind from its foolishness.

 

Respectfully,

 

Srila dasa

 

Hare Krsna.

 

> HAS THIS BEEN DONE IN THE LAST 25 YEARS? Please answer this.

 

> NO ONE is arguing against devotional service. Varnasrama on the order of the

spiritual master IS pure devotional service.

 

>

> Varnasrama was a very, very favorite "issue" of Srila Prabhupada. He

> considered it wholely HALF of his entire mission. Yet we don't give it the

time of day. Cows continue to die. Children sexually molested in this society

of people "doing pure devotional service" for the last 25 years. What a

fricking JOKE!