Guest guest Report post Posted April 21, 1999 It just seems like the karma of this board is that there will always be someone with a lot of unresolved issues using it as a platform to vent. If you look over the last couple of years, the name changed , but the position usually remains full. I feel sorry for those devotees, and hope they all eventually get the help they need. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 22, 1999 >It just seems like the karma of this board is that there will always be someone >with a lot of unresolved issues using it as a platform to vent. If you look >over the last couple of years, the name changed , but the position usually >remains full. > >I feel sorry for those devotees, and hope they all eventually get the help they >need. > Ghosh, you make me laugh. The last time I had any dealings with you was in the field looking at a property that I was wanting to buy in New Vrindavana. You likely don't remember but as we walked back to the car you started screaming obscenities being engaged in a fictitious conversation with some one. The veins were sticking out of your neck and you were able to use the f-word at least two to three times in one sentence. If you dont' believe me then ask Caits since he was there as well. Based upon this experience, I would imagine that you will end up on a shrink's couch a lot sooner than I. Now I agree with everyone that this conversation has sunk to a low and I apologize for my part in it. However, no one has offered any substantiation in regards to a woman taking sannyasa. I can only deduce that such a quote does not exist. And here I will leave it. I do apologize to Mother Prsni. Please forgive me and just consider me an errant son. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 22, 1999 >It just seems like the karma of this board is that there will always be someone >with a lot of unresolved issues using it as a platform to vent. If you look >over the last couple of years, the name changed , but the position usually >remains full. > >I feel sorry for those devotees, and hope they all eventually get the help they >need. > Ghosh, you make me laugh. The last time I had any dealings with you was in the field looking at a property that I was wanting to buy in New Vrindavana. You likely don't remember but as we walked back to the car you started screaming obscenities being engaged in a fictitious conversation with some one. The veins were sticking out of your neck and you were able to use the f-word at least two to three times in one sentence. If you dont' believe me then ask Caits since he was there as well. Based upon this experience, I would imagine that you will end up on a shrink's couch a lot sooner than I. Now I agree with everyone that this conversation has sunk to a low and I apologize for my part in it. However, no one has offered any substantiation in regards to a woman taking sannyasa. I can only deduce that such a quote does not exist. And here I will leave it. I do apologize to Mother Prsni. Please forgive me and just consider me an errant son. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 1999 > > > > Ghosh, you make me laugh. The last time I had any dealings with you was in > the field looking at a property that I was wanting to buy in New Vrindavana. > You likely don't remember but as we walked back to the car you started > screaming obscenities being engaged in a fictitious conversation with some > one. The veins were sticking out of your neck and you were able to use the > f-word at least two to three times in one sentence. If you dont' believe me > then ask Caits since he was there as well. I don't recall the specific occasion but it sounds like generic enough of an conversation that could have happened any of a hundred times if I was involved. I read a column by William Safire once where he talked about shifting nuances. How in common parlance in parts of the country(like New York city) the f word had been so overused it lost any negative connotation. As a matter of fact, he noted that if you were to tell your friends that you had taken a girl out and were just f"ing around, it meant you were doing something harmless, but if you told them you were fooling around, that had sexual content. > Based upon this experience, I > would imagine that you will end up on a shrink's couch a lot sooner than I. Do you think you will end up with a shrink? There are other alternatives you might consider. Personally, I have found venting negativities as they arise and then letting them go to be much better than bottling them up until you need a shrink to uncork them all. But to each their own. > > > However, no one has offered any substantiation > in regards to a woman taking sannyasa. I can only deduce that such a quote > does not exist. And here I will leave it. I didn't notice anybody taking the position that a woman should take sannyasa, so it doesn't surprize me that no quote was forthcoming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 1999 > > > > Ghosh, you make me laugh. The last time I had any dealings with you was in > the field looking at a property that I was wanting to buy in New Vrindavana. > You likely don't remember but as we walked back to the car you started > screaming obscenities being engaged in a fictitious conversation with some > one. The veins were sticking out of your neck and you were able to use the > f-word at least two to three times in one sentence. If you dont' believe me > then ask Caits since he was there as well. I don't recall the specific occasion but it sounds like generic enough of an conversation that could have happened any of a hundred times if I was involved. I read a column by William Safire once where he talked about shifting nuances. How in common parlance in parts of the country(like New York city) the f word had been so overused it lost any negative connotation. As a matter of fact, he noted that if you were to tell your friends that you had taken a girl out and were just f"ing around, it meant you were doing something harmless, but if you told them you were fooling around, that had sexual content. > Based upon this experience, I > would imagine that you will end up on a shrink's couch a lot sooner than I. Do you think you will end up with a shrink? There are other alternatives you might consider. Personally, I have found venting negativities as they arise and then letting them go to be much better than bottling them up until you need a shrink to uncork them all. But to each their own. > > > However, no one has offered any substantiation > in regards to a woman taking sannyasa. I can only deduce that such a quote > does not exist. And here I will leave it. I didn't notice anybody taking the position that a woman should take sannyasa, so it doesn't surprize me that no quote was forthcoming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 On 22 Apr 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > I read a column by William Safire once where he talked about shifting nuances. > How in common parlance in parts of the country(like New York city) the f word > had been so overused it lost any negative connotation. As a matter of fact, > he > noted that if you were to tell your friends that you had taken a girl out and > were just f"ing around, it meant you were doing something harmless, but if > you > told them you were fooling around, that had sexual content. I won't comment on your quotation of sastra. I think your words speak for themselves. > > > Based upon this experience, I > > would imagine that you will end up on a shrink's couch a lot sooner than I. > > Do you think you will end up with a shrink? There are other alternatives you > might consider. Personally, I have found venting negativities as they arise > and then letting them go to be much better than bottling them up until you need > a shrink to uncork them all. But to each their own. I did forget to mention that the reason we were out in the field was you were denying me the purchase of a piece of property because I revealed information that the cows and calves in New Vrindavana were slaughtered based on information sent to me by Balabhadra. You explicitly told me that I was being punished by yourself and Ranaka (the fellow who headed up N.V's farm/cow protection and cow slaughter program). Maybe you need to have some counselling yourself on this matter. By the way, I still have on my disk the letter sent to me by Balabhadra and Chaya giving details about how you killed the animals there and will be glad to reproduce it if anyone requests. > > > > > > > However, no one has offered any substantiation > > in regards to a woman taking sannyasa. I can only deduce that such a quote > > does not exist. And here I will leave it. > > I didn't notice anybody taking the position that a woman should take sannyasa, > so it doesn't surprize me that no quote was forthcoming. I never stated that anyone did make the statement. However, there has been sent to me via email quotes from Srila Prabhupada where he prohibits women from taking saffron. It is unlikely that I will have time to reproduce it before I leave but will certainly do so upon my return. I also find it higly unusual your attack on blood milk. I find it rather condescending since no alternative is available, especially to devotees living in the cities. The funny part though is that you make your living selling blood ghee. New Vrindavana buys commercial butter to make and sell ghee and you head up the production. At least you did so less than two years ago when I lived there. Remind me to look up the 26 qualities of a devotee and see where profanity and condescension fit in. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 On 22 Apr 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > I read a column by William Safire once where he talked about shifting nuances. > How in common parlance in parts of the country(like New York city) the f word > had been so overused it lost any negative connotation. As a matter of fact, > he > noted that if you were to tell your friends that you had taken a girl out and > were just f"ing around, it meant you were doing something harmless, but if > you > told them you were fooling around, that had sexual content. I won't comment on your quotation of sastra. I think your words speak for themselves. > > > Based upon this experience, I > > would imagine that you will end up on a shrink's couch a lot sooner than I. > > Do you think you will end up with a shrink? There are other alternatives you > might consider. Personally, I have found venting negativities as they arise > and then letting them go to be much better than bottling them up until you need > a shrink to uncork them all. But to each their own. I did forget to mention that the reason we were out in the field was you were denying me the purchase of a piece of property because I revealed information that the cows and calves in New Vrindavana were slaughtered based on information sent to me by Balabhadra. You explicitly told me that I was being punished by yourself and Ranaka (the fellow who headed up N.V's farm/cow protection and cow slaughter program). Maybe you need to have some counselling yourself on this matter. By the way, I still have on my disk the letter sent to me by Balabhadra and Chaya giving details about how you killed the animals there and will be glad to reproduce it if anyone requests. > > > > > > > However, no one has offered any substantiation > > in regards to a woman taking sannyasa. I can only deduce that such a quote > > does not exist. And here I will leave it. > > I didn't notice anybody taking the position that a woman should take sannyasa, > so it doesn't surprize me that no quote was forthcoming. I never stated that anyone did make the statement. However, there has been sent to me via email quotes from Srila Prabhupada where he prohibits women from taking saffron. It is unlikely that I will have time to reproduce it before I leave but will certainly do so upon my return. I also find it higly unusual your attack on blood milk. I find it rather condescending since no alternative is available, especially to devotees living in the cities. The funny part though is that you make your living selling blood ghee. New Vrindavana buys commercial butter to make and sell ghee and you head up the production. At least you did so less than two years ago when I lived there. Remind me to look up the 26 qualities of a devotee and see where profanity and condescension fit in. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 In re-reading this I see that I have stated that Mad. Ghosh was directly responsible for the killing of the animals. This is a mistake on my part and I do not know if he had any direct hand in the handling of the herd and do not want to give such an impression. On 24 Apr 1999, Vyapaka Dasa wrote: By the way, I still have on my disk the letter sent > to me by Balabhadra and Chaya giving details about how you killed the animals > there and will be glad to reproduce it if anyone requests. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 In re-reading this I see that I have stated that Mad. Ghosh was directly responsible for the killing of the animals. This is a mistake on my part and I do not know if he had any direct hand in the handling of the herd and do not want to give such an impression. On 24 Apr 1999, Vyapaka Dasa wrote: By the way, I still have on my disk the letter sent > to me by Balabhadra and Chaya giving details about how you killed the animals > there and will be glad to reproduce it if anyone requests. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 > > I did forget to mention that the reason we were out in the field was you were > denying me the purchase of a piece of property because I revealed information > that the cows and calves in New Vrindavana were slaughtered based on > information sent to me by Balabhadra. You explicitly told me that I was being > punished by yourself and Ranaka (the fellow who headed up N.V's farm/cow > protection and cow slaughter program). Maybe you need to have some counselling > yourself on this matter. By the way, I still have on my disk the letter sent > to me by Balabhadra and Chaya giving details about how you killed the animals > there and will be glad to reproduce it if anyone requests. That is a vicious lie. I find it rather > condescending since no alternative is available, especially to devotees living > in the cities. The funny part though is that you make your living selling > blood ghee. New Vrindavana buys commercial butter to make and sell ghee and > you head up the production. At least you did so less than two years ago when I > lived there. There is a very viable alternative I have set forth on numerous occasions. The ghee business is a major contributor to maintaining the cows in NV and will continue to be for a long time. The majority of my income comes from real estate investment. Your anger and bitterness are painful to interact with. Try to remember that Srila Prabhupada said chant Hare Krsna and be happy. Mother Hare Krsna dasi, your representation that this guy is actually nice is certainly belied by the poison of his pen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 > > I did forget to mention that the reason we were out in the field was you were > denying me the purchase of a piece of property because I revealed information > that the cows and calves in New Vrindavana were slaughtered based on > information sent to me by Balabhadra. You explicitly told me that I was being > punished by yourself and Ranaka (the fellow who headed up N.V's farm/cow > protection and cow slaughter program). Maybe you need to have some counselling > yourself on this matter. By the way, I still have on my disk the letter sent > to me by Balabhadra and Chaya giving details about how you killed the animals > there and will be glad to reproduce it if anyone requests. That is a vicious lie. I find it rather > condescending since no alternative is available, especially to devotees living > in the cities. The funny part though is that you make your living selling > blood ghee. New Vrindavana buys commercial butter to make and sell ghee and > you head up the production. At least you did so less than two years ago when I > lived there. There is a very viable alternative I have set forth on numerous occasions. The ghee business is a major contributor to maintaining the cows in NV and will continue to be for a long time. The majority of my income comes from real estate investment. Your anger and bitterness are painful to interact with. Try to remember that Srila Prabhupada said chant Hare Krsna and be happy. Mother Hare Krsna dasi, your representation that this guy is actually nice is certainly belied by the poison of his pen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 At 18:17 -0800 4/24/99, WWW: Vyapaka (Dasa) ACBSP (Montreal - CAN) wrote: >I did forget to mention that the reason we were out in the field was you were >denying me the purchase of a piece of property because I revealed information >that the cows and calves in New Vrindavana were slaughtered based on >information sent to me by Balabhadra. You explicitly told me that I was being >punished by yourself and Ranaka (the fellow who headed up N.V's farm/cow >protection and cow slaughter program). Maybe you need to have some counselling >yourself on this matter. By the way, I still have on my disk the letter sent >to me by Balabhadra and Chaya giving details about how you killed the animals >there and will be glad to reproduce it if anyone requests. After reading Hare Krsna Prabhu's statement that your previous texts are not representative of your personality and her request that we give you a second chance, I was perfectly willing to do so. However, you have again crossed the line. There seems to be some kind of personal vendetta that is compelling you to malign another devotee on this conference and to air old dirty laundry. Let's stop it right here. If you want to work this out in a private forum - fine, but don't expose the rest of us to this nasty and childish behavior. If you have a serious accusation against anyone and a sincere desire to investigate and resolve problem situations, please go to the proper forum or bring it up on another conference designed for that purpose. If one isn't available, start one (just like we have various conferences dealing with child abuse issues). These accusations and the way that they are voiced are not inspiring me or helping me in my spiritual life. How is this kind of discussion going to help us create a better society? Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 At 18:17 -0800 4/24/99, WWW: Vyapaka (Dasa) ACBSP (Montreal - CAN) wrote: >I did forget to mention that the reason we were out in the field was you were >denying me the purchase of a piece of property because I revealed information >that the cows and calves in New Vrindavana were slaughtered based on >information sent to me by Balabhadra. You explicitly told me that I was being >punished by yourself and Ranaka (the fellow who headed up N.V's farm/cow >protection and cow slaughter program). Maybe you need to have some counselling >yourself on this matter. By the way, I still have on my disk the letter sent >to me by Balabhadra and Chaya giving details about how you killed the animals >there and will be glad to reproduce it if anyone requests. After reading Hare Krsna Prabhu's statement that your previous texts are not representative of your personality and her request that we give you a second chance, I was perfectly willing to do so. However, you have again crossed the line. There seems to be some kind of personal vendetta that is compelling you to malign another devotee on this conference and to air old dirty laundry. Let's stop it right here. If you want to work this out in a private forum - fine, but don't expose the rest of us to this nasty and childish behavior. If you have a serious accusation against anyone and a sincere desire to investigate and resolve problem situations, please go to the proper forum or bring it up on another conference designed for that purpose. If one isn't available, start one (just like we have various conferences dealing with child abuse issues). These accusations and the way that they are voiced are not inspiring me or helping me in my spiritual life. How is this kind of discussion going to help us create a better society? Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 You wrote: > In re-reading this I see that I have stated that Mad. Ghosh was directly > responsible for the killing of the animals. This is a mistake on my part > and I do not know if he had any direct hand in the handling of the herd > and do not want to give such an impression. Here is what you wrote: > I did forget to mention that the reason we were out in the field was you > were denying me the purchase of a piece of property because I revealed > information that the cows and calves in New Vrindavana were slaughtered > based on information sent to me by Balabhadra. You explicitly told me that > I was being punished by yourself and Ranaka (the fellow who headed up > N.V's farm/cow protection and cow slaughter program). Maybe you need to > have some counselling yourself on this matter. By the way, I still have on > my disk the letter sent to me by Balabhadra and Chaya giving details about > how you killed the animals there and will be glad to reproduce it if > anyone requests. The problem with this text is that it is suggesting that Madhava Gosh has been involved in something so horrible that it would question his whole character to all the conferance members if it was true. (Which I hardly believe it is, since I have to admit that I so far have more confidence in Madhava Gosh than in you). If your accusation is false, it is really disturbing that you can just write such a thing without even looking properly at the text before sending it (which is obvious that you cannot have done from your comment quoted on top of this text). I appreciated your apology for your wording in a previous attack on me, but that "misunderstanding" too seems to have appeared because you were not really considering how your text would be received in the other end. I suggest that you try to become more sensitive to this, or if that is difficult, think twice before commenting at all on this forum. Maybe better to write private letters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 You wrote: > In re-reading this I see that I have stated that Mad. Ghosh was directly > responsible for the killing of the animals. This is a mistake on my part > and I do not know if he had any direct hand in the handling of the herd > and do not want to give such an impression. Here is what you wrote: > I did forget to mention that the reason we were out in the field was you > were denying me the purchase of a piece of property because I revealed > information that the cows and calves in New Vrindavana were slaughtered > based on information sent to me by Balabhadra. You explicitly told me that > I was being punished by yourself and Ranaka (the fellow who headed up > N.V's farm/cow protection and cow slaughter program). Maybe you need to > have some counselling yourself on this matter. By the way, I still have on > my disk the letter sent to me by Balabhadra and Chaya giving details about > how you killed the animals there and will be glad to reproduce it if > anyone requests. The problem with this text is that it is suggesting that Madhava Gosh has been involved in something so horrible that it would question his whole character to all the conferance members if it was true. (Which I hardly believe it is, since I have to admit that I so far have more confidence in Madhava Gosh than in you). If your accusation is false, it is really disturbing that you can just write such a thing without even looking properly at the text before sending it (which is obvious that you cannot have done from your comment quoted on top of this text). I appreciated your apology for your wording in a previous attack on me, but that "misunderstanding" too seems to have appeared because you were not really considering how your text would be received in the other end. I suggest that you try to become more sensitive to this, or if that is difficult, think twice before commenting at all on this forum. Maybe better to write private letters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 Madhusudan dasi wrote: >These accusations and the way that they are voiced are not inspiring me or >helping me in my spiritual life. How is this kind of discussion going to >help us create a better society? Where is your indignation when Mad. Ghosh tells me to see a psychiatrist? I have also been attacked personally and if you look at many of the submissions you will see that I am reacting to criticism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 Madhusudan dasi wrote: >These accusations and the way that they are voiced are not inspiring me or >helping me in my spiritual life. How is this kind of discussion going to >help us create a better society? Where is your indignation when Mad. Ghosh tells me to see a psychiatrist? I have also been attacked personally and if you look at many of the submissions you will see that I am reacting to criticism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 Robert Cope wrote: > [Text 2265464 from COM] > > Madhusudan dasi wrote: > > >These accusations and the way that they are voiced are not inspiring me or > >helping me in my spiritual life. How is this kind of discussion going to > >help us create a better society? > > Where is your indignation when Mad. Ghosh tells me to see a psychiatrist? I > have also been attacked personally and if you look at many of the > submissions you will see that I am reacting to criticism. Please show where I stated that. I made a generic post, with a new title heading that had no relation to any of the headings you were slinging mud under, where I stated I hoped that devotees in general who need help would get it. I never mentioned a psychiatrist, as the help most devotees need is a good example of spiritual humility. I delibretely didn't specify the type of help needed, as that is a broad range of possibilities what form that would take. An excellent example of a humble devotee is Ranaka, who for many years has sacrificed his personal interests for the sake of the cows, thanklessly performing great austerities in incredibly adverse circumstances, while at the same time subjected to vile personal attacks by slanderous idiots who have done little for the cows but attack those who have dedicated their lives to making a little sanity in a chaotic situation. As for attacks on me, I survived years on Srila Bahktipada's enemies list, with his Greek chorus of supportors and their whisper campaigns against me, so rant on about me if that somehow lesssens the pain you feel from your accumulated bile.. IF you want to distort my name, here , try these variations. Ghost, Mad Hairy Ghost, Gauche, for starters. But when you blaspheme Ranaka, you do cross a line where you need to start worrying about reactions. Karma is not some myth, some philosophical concept neatly part of a philosophical paradigm we can pay lip service to in SB class and then discount in our daily lives. For your own sake, you need to apologise to him. As for seeing a psychiatrist, you brought up it up , I didn't, as a point of fact. Anyone who hasn't already deleted these posts, as unfortunately I have, can easily see that. Even look at the heading - "it's a position" is a clear indication that the topic was not aimed at any particular individual, nor did I presume to make an over simplistic assessment of what form that help would take. For the idiots, believe what you want, but any intelligent person, please review the posts under this topic, and note that as false as the accusation is that I said he needed a psychiatrist is, that is the same level of falsity about me and Ranaka being involved with cow slaughter. As for an exposition of what happened to the cows, I am fully ready to do so in front of the Deities, in court, or in this conference. Personally, I would prefer court, as there actual proof is required, unlike the Deities, where Vyapaka seems to have no compunction about his willingness to voimit up grossly distorted hearsay. Actually, i think it would be very instructive to review what happened in NV. A lot of mistakes were made that unfortunately have been repeated all over the movement. But if someone is looking for neat little 25 word or less explanations that leave them as simply blameless onlookers, then you better get a different version than mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 Robert Cope wrote: > [Text 2265464 from COM] > > Madhusudan dasi wrote: > > >These accusations and the way that they are voiced are not inspiring me or > >helping me in my spiritual life. How is this kind of discussion going to > >help us create a better society? > > Where is your indignation when Mad. Ghosh tells me to see a psychiatrist? I > have also been attacked personally and if you look at many of the > submissions you will see that I am reacting to criticism. Please show where I stated that. I made a generic post, with a new title heading that had no relation to any of the headings you were slinging mud under, where I stated I hoped that devotees in general who need help would get it. I never mentioned a psychiatrist, as the help most devotees need is a good example of spiritual humility. I delibretely didn't specify the type of help needed, as that is a broad range of possibilities what form that would take. An excellent example of a humble devotee is Ranaka, who for many years has sacrificed his personal interests for the sake of the cows, thanklessly performing great austerities in incredibly adverse circumstances, while at the same time subjected to vile personal attacks by slanderous idiots who have done little for the cows but attack those who have dedicated their lives to making a little sanity in a chaotic situation. As for attacks on me, I survived years on Srila Bahktipada's enemies list, with his Greek chorus of supportors and their whisper campaigns against me, so rant on about me if that somehow lesssens the pain you feel from your accumulated bile.. IF you want to distort my name, here , try these variations. Ghost, Mad Hairy Ghost, Gauche, for starters. But when you blaspheme Ranaka, you do cross a line where you need to start worrying about reactions. Karma is not some myth, some philosophical concept neatly part of a philosophical paradigm we can pay lip service to in SB class and then discount in our daily lives. For your own sake, you need to apologise to him. As for seeing a psychiatrist, you brought up it up , I didn't, as a point of fact. Anyone who hasn't already deleted these posts, as unfortunately I have, can easily see that. Even look at the heading - "it's a position" is a clear indication that the topic was not aimed at any particular individual, nor did I presume to make an over simplistic assessment of what form that help would take. For the idiots, believe what you want, but any intelligent person, please review the posts under this topic, and note that as false as the accusation is that I said he needed a psychiatrist is, that is the same level of falsity about me and Ranaka being involved with cow slaughter. As for an exposition of what happened to the cows, I am fully ready to do so in front of the Deities, in court, or in this conference. Personally, I would prefer court, as there actual proof is required, unlike the Deities, where Vyapaka seems to have no compunction about his willingness to voimit up grossly distorted hearsay. Actually, i think it would be very instructive to review what happened in NV. A lot of mistakes were made that unfortunately have been repeated all over the movement. But if someone is looking for neat little 25 word or less explanations that leave them as simply blameless onlookers, then you better get a different version than mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 >> Madhusudan dasi wrote: >> >> >These accusations and the way that they are voiced are not inspiring me or >> >helping me in my spiritual life. How is this kind of discussion going to >> >help us create a better society? >> >> Where is your indignation when Mad. Ghosh tells me to see a psychiatrist? I >> have also been attacked personally and if you look at many of the >> submissions you will see that I am reacting to criticism. >Mad. Ghosh replied. >Please show where I stated that. I made a generic post, with a new title >heading that had no relation to any of the headings you were slinging mud >under, where I stated I hoped that devotees in general who need help would >get it. I never mentioned a psychiatrist, as the help most devotees need is a >good example of spiritual humility. I delibretely didn't specify the type of >help needed, as that is a broad range of possibilities what form that would >take. An excellent example of a humble devotee is Ranaka, who for many years >has sacrificed his personal interests for the sake of the cows, thanklessly >performing great austerities in incredibly adverse circumstances, while at the >same time subjected to vile personal attacks by slanderous idiots who have done >little for the cows but attack those who have dedicated their lives to making a >little sanity in a chaotic situation. Both you and Caits specifically stated that the reason why I was denied the full 20 acres (and the price tripled) was because of my writing an article exposing the cow slaughter in New Vrindavana. I will forward a copy of a letter from the Iskcon Minister of Agricutlure making the accusations. I simply replicated those statements in an editorial. > For your own sake, you need to apologise to him [Ranaka].. NEVER. I went to N.V. directly after writing that article and asked him personally that if the Balabhadra's facts are wrong then what happened to the all the cows. He had no explanation other than a few of the animals may have strayed onto neighbouring properties and likely were "shipped" (i.e. slaughtered). For a cow to give milk it needs to have a calf. During the above mentionned meetings we went through the math and found that there were many, many animals missing. This was witnessed also by Balabhadra at another meeting when Ranaka wasn't there. We'll see if his memory is as poor as yours. >As for seeing a psychiatrist, you brought up it up , >For the idiots, believe what you want, but any intelligent person, please >review the posts under this topic, and note that as false as the accusation is >that I said he needed a psychiatrist is, that is the same level of falsity >about me and Ranaka being involved with cow slaughter. Obviously, anyone who doesn't believe you is an idiot by your definition. Your famous temper is getting the best of you here. I did not say that you were involved in the actual handling of the herd. However, Nrisingha Caitanya Prabhu told me that he wrote a report strongly encouraging the STOPPING of the dairy there and you criticized it stating that economy of scale of a large herd made it feasible. Maybe N.Cait. is lying (as everyone seems to be but you) but it sure sounds like a statement you would make. For everyone's info. N. Cait. dasa is in charge of the cow protection program and he is doing a fine job to my knowledge. N. Cait told me that Ranaka was in charge of the herd/farm for all of the time the dairy was under operation. Can you explain to me how one can freshen and milk cows in a dairy situation. I asked Ranaka at the barn to show me the records and he said they weren't available, I think that the reason for was a computer failure or glitch. Gaudiya dasa told me that he was in charge of the heifer calves but didn't know of any program for the bull calves. Again, Balabhadra's letter stating that cows were left in the field to freeze to death. Wasn't New Vrindavana charged by the S.P.C.A. for cruelty to animals or something similar? Why over the course of the dairy did the herd not grow? That is how it was described to me by many individuals over the years when they visited Montreal which had strong ties to N.V. > >As for an exposition of what happened to the cows, I am fully ready to do so >in front of the Deities, in court, or in this conference. Well please do so. I have asked repeatedly and received no answers, including from you. Don't you remember our hour long conversation on the back of your pickup behind the guest house. You had no explanation then. Of course, I am lying again. When I pressed Nr. Cait. for details he tried to defend the situation but ended up simply saying that Ranaka was in charge but using somewhat less flattering language. Why didn't N.V, Ranaka, Nrs. Cait provide the proper explanation in writing as a refutation of my editiorial to be published in the newsletter Hare Krsna rural Life when invited. I think Hare Krsna dasi may be able to confirm this though she wasn't in N.V. at the time but it is very likely that I mentioned the invitation to refute Balabhadra's accusations to her. > >Personally, I would prefer court, as there actual proof is required, unlike >the Deities, where Vyapaka seems to have no compunction about his willingness >to voimit up grossly distorted hearsay. It may be voimit but you cannot deny that I have tried to get the facts. There are many witnesses to this and I will definitely win in a court battle. I am not suprised to see that you wouldn't do it in front of the deities. You have admitted on this conference where you don't remember conversations, in particular the one that you ranted like a total madman. You damn well know that you took vengeance for the article out on me and explicitly told me and Caits informed me of the same on the phone before we went out as well. If Caits denies it then what can I do but wait for everyone's karma to be played out. Your ranting in the field is why I never returned to the land committee meetings. You told me that I would have to prove myself to you before being sold any more that five acres and I just had to laugh. My wife will confirm this because we jumped in the truck the next day and eventually purchased a farm in Canada. This is one of the best things that ever happened to me and I thank you for not selling me any substantial piece of property there. > >Actually, i think it would be very instructive to review what happened in NV. >A lot of mistakes were made that unfortunately have been repeated all over the >movement. But if someone is looking for neat little 25 word or less >explanations that leave them as simply blameless onlookers, then you better >get a different version than mine. Looks like I am in your club because the above must be well over the 25 words. Yes, let us do an investigation from someone outside N.V. This includes Balabhadra who by the way didn't speak up on behalf of the cows when I was being interogated even though he sat right beside me during the meeting. Not once did he say that he had heard any similar comments about the cows and I didn't finger him but was totally disgusted by his action, or rather lack of them. I think Nrs. Cait and another brahmacarya who was present during this meeting could validate that. Iscowp's letter detailing the abuse will follow. I do expect Balabhadra to deny the facts because it would be very embarassing for him I am leaving in a couple of hours for two weeks so Mad. Ghosh and likely Balabhadra can make any statements they want. If needed I will respond upon my return. In your response though please provide details on how a dairy herd, milking between 75 and 100 animals, not increase in population. And if there is such an explanation, then why wasn't it provided earlier. I am anticipating your response. Please remember that 1 + 1 = 2 Madhusudani Radha: if this is too much for you please hit the delete button but hopefully you can see the relation of this discussion to the matter of cow protection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 >> Madhusudan dasi wrote: >> >> >These accusations and the way that they are voiced are not inspiring me or >> >helping me in my spiritual life. How is this kind of discussion going to >> >help us create a better society? >> >> Where is your indignation when Mad. Ghosh tells me to see a psychiatrist? I >> have also been attacked personally and if you look at many of the >> submissions you will see that I am reacting to criticism. >Mad. Ghosh replied. >Please show where I stated that. I made a generic post, with a new title >heading that had no relation to any of the headings you were slinging mud >under, where I stated I hoped that devotees in general who need help would >get it. I never mentioned a psychiatrist, as the help most devotees need is a >good example of spiritual humility. I delibretely didn't specify the type of >help needed, as that is a broad range of possibilities what form that would >take. An excellent example of a humble devotee is Ranaka, who for many years >has sacrificed his personal interests for the sake of the cows, thanklessly >performing great austerities in incredibly adverse circumstances, while at the >same time subjected to vile personal attacks by slanderous idiots who have done >little for the cows but attack those who have dedicated their lives to making a >little sanity in a chaotic situation. Both you and Caits specifically stated that the reason why I was denied the full 20 acres (and the price tripled) was because of my writing an article exposing the cow slaughter in New Vrindavana. I will forward a copy of a letter from the Iskcon Minister of Agricutlure making the accusations. I simply replicated those statements in an editorial. > For your own sake, you need to apologise to him [Ranaka].. NEVER. I went to N.V. directly after writing that article and asked him personally that if the Balabhadra's facts are wrong then what happened to the all the cows. He had no explanation other than a few of the animals may have strayed onto neighbouring properties and likely were "shipped" (i.e. slaughtered). For a cow to give milk it needs to have a calf. During the above mentionned meetings we went through the math and found that there were many, many animals missing. This was witnessed also by Balabhadra at another meeting when Ranaka wasn't there. We'll see if his memory is as poor as yours. >As for seeing a psychiatrist, you brought up it up , >For the idiots, believe what you want, but any intelligent person, please >review the posts under this topic, and note that as false as the accusation is >that I said he needed a psychiatrist is, that is the same level of falsity >about me and Ranaka being involved with cow slaughter. Obviously, anyone who doesn't believe you is an idiot by your definition. Your famous temper is getting the best of you here. I did not say that you were involved in the actual handling of the herd. However, Nrisingha Caitanya Prabhu told me that he wrote a report strongly encouraging the STOPPING of the dairy there and you criticized it stating that economy of scale of a large herd made it feasible. Maybe N.Cait. is lying (as everyone seems to be but you) but it sure sounds like a statement you would make. For everyone's info. N. Cait. dasa is in charge of the cow protection program and he is doing a fine job to my knowledge. N. Cait told me that Ranaka was in charge of the herd/farm for all of the time the dairy was under operation. Can you explain to me how one can freshen and milk cows in a dairy situation. I asked Ranaka at the barn to show me the records and he said they weren't available, I think that the reason for was a computer failure or glitch. Gaudiya dasa told me that he was in charge of the heifer calves but didn't know of any program for the bull calves. Again, Balabhadra's letter stating that cows were left in the field to freeze to death. Wasn't New Vrindavana charged by the S.P.C.A. for cruelty to animals or something similar? Why over the course of the dairy did the herd not grow? That is how it was described to me by many individuals over the years when they visited Montreal which had strong ties to N.V. > >As for an exposition of what happened to the cows, I am fully ready to do so >in front of the Deities, in court, or in this conference. Well please do so. I have asked repeatedly and received no answers, including from you. Don't you remember our hour long conversation on the back of your pickup behind the guest house. You had no explanation then. Of course, I am lying again. When I pressed Nr. Cait. for details he tried to defend the situation but ended up simply saying that Ranaka was in charge but using somewhat less flattering language. Why didn't N.V, Ranaka, Nrs. Cait provide the proper explanation in writing as a refutation of my editiorial to be published in the newsletter Hare Krsna rural Life when invited. I think Hare Krsna dasi may be able to confirm this though she wasn't in N.V. at the time but it is very likely that I mentioned the invitation to refute Balabhadra's accusations to her. > >Personally, I would prefer court, as there actual proof is required, unlike >the Deities, where Vyapaka seems to have no compunction about his willingness >to voimit up grossly distorted hearsay. It may be voimit but you cannot deny that I have tried to get the facts. There are many witnesses to this and I will definitely win in a court battle. I am not suprised to see that you wouldn't do it in front of the deities. You have admitted on this conference where you don't remember conversations, in particular the one that you ranted like a total madman. You damn well know that you took vengeance for the article out on me and explicitly told me and Caits informed me of the same on the phone before we went out as well. If Caits denies it then what can I do but wait for everyone's karma to be played out. Your ranting in the field is why I never returned to the land committee meetings. You told me that I would have to prove myself to you before being sold any more that five acres and I just had to laugh. My wife will confirm this because we jumped in the truck the next day and eventually purchased a farm in Canada. This is one of the best things that ever happened to me and I thank you for not selling me any substantial piece of property there. > >Actually, i think it would be very instructive to review what happened in NV. >A lot of mistakes were made that unfortunately have been repeated all over the >movement. But if someone is looking for neat little 25 word or less >explanations that leave them as simply blameless onlookers, then you better >get a different version than mine. Looks like I am in your club because the above must be well over the 25 words. Yes, let us do an investigation from someone outside N.V. This includes Balabhadra who by the way didn't speak up on behalf of the cows when I was being interogated even though he sat right beside me during the meeting. Not once did he say that he had heard any similar comments about the cows and I didn't finger him but was totally disgusted by his action, or rather lack of them. I think Nrs. Cait and another brahmacarya who was present during this meeting could validate that. Iscowp's letter detailing the abuse will follow. I do expect Balabhadra to deny the facts because it would be very embarassing for him I am leaving in a couple of hours for two weeks so Mad. Ghosh and likely Balabhadra can make any statements they want. If needed I will respond upon my return. In your response though please provide details on how a dairy herd, milking between 75 and 100 animals, not increase in population. And if there is such an explanation, then why wasn't it provided earlier. I am anticipating your response. Please remember that 1 + 1 = 2 Madhusudani Radha: if this is too much for you please hit the delete button but hopefully you can see the relation of this discussion to the matter of cow protection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 > > By the way, I still have on > > my disk the letter sent to me by Balabhadra and Chaya giving details about how you killed the animals there and will be glad to reproduce it if anyone requests. > > So where's the beef? --woops. I mean, if there is physcial evidence such as a letter with such apparently clear testimony, how can one later say they didn't mean to say they had this evidence. I mean, did you ever read the letter, or is it that we just imagine such things exist. If we must indulge in ridiculous (sic?) offenses, at least we should try to be a little adept at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 > > By the way, I still have on > > my disk the letter sent to me by Balabhadra and Chaya giving details about how you killed the animals there and will be glad to reproduce it if anyone requests. > > So where's the beef? --woops. I mean, if there is physcial evidence such as a letter with such apparently clear testimony, how can one later say they didn't mean to say they had this evidence. I mean, did you ever read the letter, or is it that we just imagine such things exist. If we must indulge in ridiculous (sic?) offenses, at least we should try to be a little adept at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 On 25 Apr 1999, Robert Cope wrote: > > > Where is your indignation when Mad. Ghosh tells me to see a psychiatrist? I have also been attacked personally and if you look at many of the submissions you will see that I am reacting to criticism. > I wouldn't recommend you see Prsni D's shrink, 'cause then you'd really look funny carrying a danda. Yep, reacting defensively to self-perceived personal attacks is one of the more prominant of the 26 qualities of a devotee. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 1999 On 25 Apr 1999, Robert Cope wrote: > > > Where is your indignation when Mad. Ghosh tells me to see a psychiatrist? I have also been attacked personally and if you look at many of the submissions you will see that I am reacting to criticism. > I wouldn't recommend you see Prsni D's shrink, 'cause then you'd really look funny carrying a danda. Yep, reacting defensively to self-perceived personal attacks is one of the more prominant of the 26 qualities of a devotee. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
