RE: The dangers of being distracted by Y2K

[Guest guest]

In text 1993996 Mahanidhi dasa wrote:

 

> I don't think that anybody who promotes "awareness" of Y2K

> chaos should be on any way looked down in the case if nothing

> or hardly something happens. "Prepare for the worse, hope for

> the best" are the words of Srila Prabhupada, as known to me.

> After all, Srila Prabhupada himself gave the predictions of

> collapse of the modern civilizations at the year 2000. So what

> if he, Srila Prabhupada, proves to be wrong?? Same question

> that you apply here for others can be applied on Srila Prabhupada

> as well.

 

I agree that promoting straighforward awareness is always welcomed. I was

mainly refering to instances (that I have aleady noticed within ISKCON) in

which someone starts using the Y2K subject to play on the fears of people

and even to make decisions that involve the lives of devotees in ways that

look irresponsible. We have already seen this in the past. Harikesa P.

would announce in Mayapura that in 1979 the nuclear war between the supe

rpowers would start. Then in 1979 he moved it up to 1981; then in 1981 he

moved it up again to 1983. He then gave everyone some breathing space and

declared that it would start in 1987. At that point I lost track. Of

course, the Berlin Wall fell in 1989 and many decisions made with such

fears proved nonsensical. Just add up the millions lost by ISKCON in

useless farms during the 1980's, the energy wasted in them, and the

credibility lost among the devotee population for such decisions. Here in

Mexico alone a farm was purchased in 1982 for $300,000.00US cash (plus the

expenses of maintaining it for years) and then it was sold for one-fourth

of the original price in 1989. The current GBC here has been presenting in

the last few months the idea of a new farm, using the fears of the coming

chaos in civilization as a justification. Unfortunately the reasons that

caused the previous farm failure still prevail and warrant a new failure if

the project goes ahead. And I don't think that this is the only case in

ISKCON. That was the reason of my question.

 

Part of the paranoia found within ISKCON comes from the fact that karmis

present worst case scenarios but try to make sure that the best happens,

not only hope for it. But devotees sometimes don't understand this and

focus only on the worst case scenarios and try to make a cottage preaching

industry out of it. Some may not find anything wrong with it. But in fact

doomsday preaching in general ends being counterproductive. Jim Jones

preached the end of the world and look at what happened to him and his

followers. A Korean Christian church preached that the world would end a

couple of years ago, but when this didn't happen the faithful sued the

priest for misleading them. Christian fundamentalists during the 1970's

preached that the European Union was the 10 headed beast of Revelation (a

sign of the impending Judgement Day) but when an 11th member was added to

the Union their decades long "evidence" evaporated along with their

credibility.

 

Is the same happening in ISKCON? My new Vedabase arrived broken so I don't

have an exact quote that I wanted to share with you, but once the devotees

were telling Srila Prabhupada about the fears of economists (?) due to

ISKCON's social and economical proposals. Srila Prabhupada replied that

they should not worry because their material civilization will go on

forever. To me that makes a lot of sense; this is the material world after

all. Latter-Day attitudes is not what vaisnavas should be into. I have

personaly heard a couple of gurus just talk about the Y2K issue, along with

voodoo, ghosts, cristal healing, etc., which honestly makes them look

clownish. Instead they should concentrate in representing Srila Prabhupada,

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and the whole parampara in a more dignified way.

 

YS RK Mex

[Guest guest]

In text 1995209 Tapta Kancani dd wrote:

 

> Since when in qualification of a guru judged by being some kind if a

> prophet or all-knowing unquestionable personality, knowing "how many

> windows are in building next door."

> What happened with "knowing science of Krsna consciousness".

 

Well, that is my point. YS RK Mex

[Guest guest]

In text 1995209 Tapta Kancani dd wrote:

 

> Since when in qualification of a guru judged by being some kind if a

> prophet or all-knowing unquestionable personality, knowing "how many

> windows are in building next door."

> What happened with "knowing science of Krsna consciousness".

 

Well, that is my point. YS RK Mex

[Guest guest]

In text 1993996 Mahanidhi dasa wrote:

 

> I don't think that anybody who promotes "awareness" of Y2K

> chaos should be on any way looked down in the case if nothing

> or hardly something happens. "Prepare for the worse, hope for

> the best" are the words of Srila Prabhupada, as known to me.

> After all, Srila Prabhupada himself gave the predictions of

> collapse of the modern civilizations at the year 2000. So what

> if he, Srila Prabhupada, proves to be wrong?? Same question

> that you apply here for others can be applied on Srila Prabhupada

> as well.

 

I agree that promoting straighforward awareness is always welcomed. I was

mainly refering to instances (that I have aleady noticed within ISKCON) in

which someone starts using the Y2K subject to play on the fears of people

and even to make decisions that involve the lives of devotees in ways that

look irresponsible. We have already seen this in the past. Harikesa P.

would announce in Mayapura that in 1979 the nuclear war between the supe

rpowers would start. Then in 1979 he moved it up to 1981; then in 1981 he

moved it up again to 1983. He then gave everyone some breathing space and

declared that it would start in 1987. At that point I lost track. Of

course, the Berlin Wall fell in 1989 and many decisions made with such

fears proved nonsensical. Just add up the millions lost by ISKCON in

useless farms during the 1980's, the energy wasted in them, and the

credibility lost among the devotee population for such decisions. Here in

Mexico alone a farm was purchased in 1982 for $300,000.00US cash (plus the

expenses of maintaining it for years) and then it was sold for one-fourth

of the original price in 1989. The current GBC here has been presenting in

the last few months the idea of a new farm, using the fears of the coming

chaos in civilization as a justification. Unfortunately the reasons that

caused the previous farm failure still prevail and warrant a new failure if

the project goes ahead. And I don't think that this is the only case in

ISKCON. That was the reason of my question.

 

Part of the paranoia found within ISKCON comes from the fact that karmis

present worst case scenarios but try to make sure that the best happens,

not only hope for it. But devotees sometimes don't understand this and

focus only on the worst case scenarios and try to make a cottage preaching

industry out of it. Some may not find anything wrong with it. But in fact

doomsday preaching in general ends being counterproductive. Jim Jones

preached the end of the world and look at what happened to him and his

followers. A Korean Christian church preached that the world would end a

couple of years ago, but when this didn't happen the faithful sued the

priest for misleading them. Christian fundamentalists during the 1970's

preached that the European Union was the 10 headed beast of Revelation (a

sign of the impending Judgement Day) but when an 11th member was added to

the Union their decades long "evidence" evaporated along with their

credibility.

 

Is the same happening in ISKCON? My new Vedabase arrived broken so I don't

have an exact quote that I wanted to share with you, but once the devotees

were telling Srila Prabhupada about the fears of economists (?) due to

ISKCON's social and economical proposals. Srila Prabhupada replied that

they should not worry because their material civilization will go on

forever. To me that makes a lot of sense; this is the material world after

all. Latter-Day attitudes is not what vaisnavas should be into. I have

personaly heard a couple of gurus just talk about the Y2K issue, along with

voodoo, ghosts, cristal healing, etc., which honestly makes them look

clownish. Instead they should concentrate in representing Srila Prabhupada,

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and the whole parampara in a more dignified way.

 

YS RK Mex

[Guest guest]

In text 1993996 Mahanidhi dasa wrote:

 

> I don't think that anybody who promotes "awareness" of Y2K

> chaos should be on any way looked down in the case if nothing

> or hardly something happens. "Prepare for the worse, hope for

> the best" are the words of Srila Prabhupada, as known to me.

> After all, Srila Prabhupada himself gave the predictions of

> collapse of the modern civilizations at the year 2000. So what

> if he, Srila Prabhupada, proves to be wrong?? Same question

> that you apply here for others can be applied on Srila Prabhupada

> as well.

 

I agree that promoting straighforward awareness is always welcomed. I was

mainly refering to instances (that I have aleady noticed within ISKCON) in

which someone starts using the Y2K subject to play on the fears of people

and even to make decisions that involve the lives of devotees in ways that

look irresponsible. We have already seen this in the past. Harikesa P.

would announce in Mayapura that in 1979 the nuclear war between the supe

rpowers would start. Then in 1979 he moved it up to 1981; then in 1981 he

moved it up again to 1983. He then gave everyone some breathing space and

declared that it would start in 1987. At that point I lost track. Of

course, the Berlin Wall fell in 1989 and many decisions made with such

fears proved nonsensical. Just add up the millions lost by ISKCON in

useless farms during the 1980's, the energy wasted in them, and the

credibility lost among the devotee population for such decisions. Here in

Mexico alone a farm was purchased in 1982 for $300,000.00US cash (plus the

expenses of maintaining it for years) and then it was sold for one-fourth

of the original price in 1989. The current GBC here has been presenting in

the last few months the idea of a new farm, using the fears of the coming

chaos in civilization as a justification. Unfortunately the reasons that

caused the previous farm failure still prevail and warrant a new failure if

the project goes ahead. And I don't think that this is the only case in

ISKCON. That was the reason of my question.

 

Part of the paranoia found within ISKCON comes from the fact that karmis

present worst case scenarios but try to make sure that the best happens,

not only hope for it. But devotees sometimes don't understand this and

focus only on the worst case scenarios and try to make a cottage preaching

industry out of it. Some may not find anything wrong with it. But in fact

doomsday preaching in general ends being counterproductive. Jim Jones

preached the end of the world and look at what happened to him and his

followers. A Korean Christian church preached that the world would end a

couple of years ago, but when this didn't happen the faithful sued the

priest for misleading them. Christian fundamentalists during the 1970's

preached that the European Union was the 10 headed beast of Revelation (a

sign of the impending Judgement Day) but when an 11th member was added to

the Union their decades long "evidence" evaporated along with their

credibility.

 

Is the same happening in ISKCON? My new Vedabase arrived broken so I don't

have an exact quote that I wanted to share with you, but once the devotees

were telling Srila Prabhupada about the fears of economists (?) due to

ISKCON's social and economical proposals. Srila Prabhupada replied that

they should not worry because their material civilization will go on

forever. To me that makes a lot of sense; this is the material world after

all. Latter-Day attitudes is not what vaisnavas should be into. I have

personaly heard a couple of gurus just talk about the Y2K issue, along with

voodoo, ghosts, cristal healing, etc., which honestly makes them look

clownish. Instead they should concentrate in representing Srila Prabhupada,

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and the whole parampara in a more dignified way.

 

YS RK Mex

[Guest guest]

COM: Stoka Krsna (das) LOK (Dole - F) wrote:

 

> [Text 1995795 from COM]

>

> So, again, y2k is not the arrangement of Krsna for

> better preaching-facilities, in shortterm, it is a plan of those asuras

> for there purposes. With this understanding, devotees my get a

> better understanding about what is accualy going on, and in this way,

> they can act and prepair accordingly.

 

If meteoroligists say there is a 20 percent chance of a hurricane coming, I'm

going to board up my windows. If the hurricane doesn't come after I went to

all

that trouble, what do I say. I say "Thank you Krsna."

 

Technicians, economists, and disaster management experts say their is a good

chance that Y2K will have a disturbing impact upon us. I feel it is part of

our

cultish mentality to automatically disregard the advice of all these people as

ignorant demons. Why not examine what they have to say? See if it's logical?

See if it matches up with what Prabhupada told us to expect?

 

On the other hand, I'm not sure I agree with the statement, "Y2K is not the

arrangement of Krsna for better preaching facilities."

 

Isn't there a statement like, "The Material Energy stands with folded hands to

serve the Pure Devotee of the Lord"?

 

Who is a Pure Devotee? -- Srila Prabhupada

 

What did he want his followers to do? -- Establish varnasrama villages based

on

simple living and high thinking, so as to attract the non-devotees

 

Have they done it? -- Not really.

 

Do they need a "kick in the pants" so to speak? -- Yes.

 

So if Maya-Devi is standing with folded hands, wishing to serve Krsna's Pure

Devotee, how might she arrange things so as to help the devotees carry out

Srila

Prabhupada's desires to spread Krsna consciousness?

 

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

COM: Stoka Krsna (das) LOK (Dole - F) wrote:

 

> [Text 1995795 from COM]

>

> So, again, y2k is not the arrangement of Krsna for

> better preaching-facilities, in shortterm, it is a plan of those asuras

> for there purposes. With this understanding, devotees my get a

> better understanding about what is accualy going on, and in this way,

> they can act and prepair accordingly.

 

If meteoroligists say there is a 20 percent chance of a hurricane coming, I'm

going to board up my windows. If the hurricane doesn't come after I went to

all

that trouble, what do I say. I say "Thank you Krsna."

 

Technicians, economists, and disaster management experts say their is a good

chance that Y2K will have a disturbing impact upon us. I feel it is part of

our

cultish mentality to automatically disregard the advice of all these people as

ignorant demons. Why not examine what they have to say? See if it's logical?

See if it matches up with what Prabhupada told us to expect?

 

On the other hand, I'm not sure I agree with the statement, "Y2K is not the

arrangement of Krsna for better preaching facilities."

 

Isn't there a statement like, "The Material Energy stands with folded hands to

serve the Pure Devotee of the Lord"?

 

Who is a Pure Devotee? -- Srila Prabhupada

 

What did he want his followers to do? -- Establish varnasrama villages based

on

simple living and high thinking, so as to attract the non-devotees

 

Have they done it? -- Not really.

 

Do they need a "kick in the pants" so to speak? -- Yes.

 

So if Maya-Devi is standing with folded hands, wishing to serve Krsna's Pure

Devotee, how might she arrange things so as to help the devotees carry out

Srila

Prabhupada's desires to spread Krsna consciousness?

 

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

On 06 Jan 1999, Radha-Krishna das wrote:

 

 

> Particularly in the case of gurus, if they prove to be wrong, will they

> recognize their lack of judgement and thus their lack of qualification as

> gurus? Or will they just depend on ISKCON's short collective memory to

> continue the ride?

 

 

You've got to be kidding! I'm sure you know of a hundred other instances of

their "lack of judgement" on so many issues. Have they ever admitted that?

[Guest guest]

On 06 Jan 1999, Radha-Krishna das wrote:

 

 

> Particularly in the case of gurus, if they prove to be wrong, will they

> recognize their lack of judgement and thus their lack of qualification as

> gurus? Or will they just depend on ISKCON's short collective memory to

> continue the ride?

 

 

You've got to be kidding! I'm sure you know of a hundred other instances of

their "lack of judgement" on so many issues. Have they ever admitted that?

[Guest guest]

> [Text 1995795 from COM]

>

> > > Recently it was announced that the Social Security systems in the US had

> > > been remediated and are now Y2K compatible.

 

Yes, but is it Y10K compatible? Or are short sighted programmers only using 4

digits :-)

[Guest guest]

> [Text 1995795 from COM]

>

> > > Recently it was announced that the Social Security systems in the US had

> > > been remediated and are now Y2K compatible.

 

Yes, but is it Y10K compatible? Or are short sighted programmers only using 4

digits :-)

[Guest guest]

> I'm not sure I agree with the statement, "Y2K is not the

> arrangement of Krsna for better preaching facilities."

>

> Isn't there a statement like, "The Material Energy stands with folded hands

to

> serve the Pure Devotee of the Lord"?

 

Of course, nothing happens independent of the Lord. Even the plans of the

asuras are included in the Lord´s will. This is not the point.

 

The point is, that we nevertheless have to discriminate, because without

discrimination, you may become a victim of those asuric plans. And

another point is, that you cannot protect yourselve only through material

arrangements. The ultimate protection is always our relationship

with the Lord. If you forget this, and you concentrate your energies

ONLY on material arrangements, than you are already a victim.

 

y.s.

Stoka Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

> I'm not sure I agree with the statement, "Y2K is not the

> arrangement of Krsna for better preaching facilities."

>

> Isn't there a statement like, "The Material Energy stands with folded hands

to

> serve the Pure Devotee of the Lord"?

 

Of course, nothing happens independent of the Lord. Even the plans of the

asuras are included in the Lord´s will. This is not the point.

 

The point is, that we nevertheless have to discriminate, because without

discrimination, you may become a victim of those asuric plans. And

another point is, that you cannot protect yourselve only through material

arrangements. The ultimate protection is always our relationship

with the Lord. If you forget this, and you concentrate your energies

ONLY on material arrangements, than you are already a victim.

 

y.s.

Stoka Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

In text 1997064 Gunamani dd wrote:

 

> Why do you say that a Guru`s inability to judge something, disqualify him

as

> a guru? Should a guru be absolutely aware of whatever goes on in this

world,

> or is his perfection that he knows the ultimate goal and how to get there

> and he is setting the personal example of following that path?

 

> I have heard guru`s admit their inability or lack of knowledge on certain

> areas, even expressing that they might have been wrong in something they

> said earlier. I dont understand why this should minimize their spiritual

> value.

 

Dear Mataji,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Thanks for your note. You bring up important points. I posted a follow-up

note that may address them. My original argument is related to the excesses

arising from an irresponsible, confused mentality that we still notice on a

daily basis within ISKCON and that affects the lives of innocent devotees,

not from the ocassional minor honest mistake.

YS RK Mex

[Guest guest]

In text 1997064 Gunamani dd wrote:

 

> Why do you say that a Guru`s inability to judge something, disqualify him

as

> a guru? Should a guru be absolutely aware of whatever goes on in this

world,

> or is his perfection that he knows the ultimate goal and how to get there

> and he is setting the personal example of following that path?

 

> I have heard guru`s admit their inability or lack of knowledge on certain

> areas, even expressing that they might have been wrong in something they

> said earlier. I dont understand why this should minimize their spiritual

> value.

 

Dear Mataji,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Thanks for your note. You bring up important points. I posted a follow-up

note that may address them. My original argument is related to the excesses

arising from an irresponsible, confused mentality that we still notice on a

daily basis within ISKCON and that affects the lives of innocent devotees,

not from the ocassional minor honest mistake.

YS RK Mex

[Guest guest]

On 06 Jan 1999, Radha-Krishna das wrote:

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

>> Particularly in the case of gurus, if they prove to be wrong, will they

>> recognize their lack of judgement and thus their lack of qualification as

> >gurus? Or will they just depend on ISKCON's short collective memory to

>> continue the ride?

Why do you say that a Guru`s inability to judge something, disqualify him as

a guru? Should a guru be absolutely aware of whatever goes on in this world,

or is his perfection that he knows the ultimate goal and how to get there

and he is setting the personal example of following that path?

 

>You've got to be kidding! I'm sure you know of a hundred other instances of

>their "lack of judgement" on so many issues. Have they ever admitted that?

 

 

I have heard guru`s admit their inability or lack of knowledge on certain

areas, even expressing that they might have been wrong in something they

said earlier. I dont understand why this should minimize their spiritual

value.

Your servant Gunamani d.d.

[Guest guest]

On 06 Jan 1999, Radha-Krishna das wrote:

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

>> Particularly in the case of gurus, if they prove to be wrong, will they

>> recognize their lack of judgement and thus their lack of qualification as

> >gurus? Or will they just depend on ISKCON's short collective memory to

>> continue the ride?

Why do you say that a Guru`s inability to judge something, disqualify him as

a guru? Should a guru be absolutely aware of whatever goes on in this world,

or is his perfection that he knows the ultimate goal and how to get there

and he is setting the personal example of following that path?

 

>You've got to be kidding! I'm sure you know of a hundred other instances of

>their "lack of judgement" on so many issues. Have they ever admitted that?

 

 

I have heard guru`s admit their inability or lack of knowledge on certain

areas, even expressing that they might have been wrong in something they

said earlier. I dont understand why this should minimize their spiritual

value.

Your servant Gunamani d.d.

[Guest guest]

>Dear Mataji,

>Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

>Thanks for your note. You bring up important points. I posted a follow-up

>note that may address them. My original argument is related to the excesses

>arising from an irresponsible, confused mentality that we still notice on a

>daily basis within ISKCON and that affects the lives of innocent devotees,

>not from the ocassional minor honest mistake.

>YS RK Mex

Dear Prabhu.

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Thank you for clarifying, it seem to me that often problems arise because

of blind following on the part of the disciples, which is again a product of

the way we train new people.

If we dont dare to ask the questions on our mind in fear of becoming

ridiculed, it is very difficult to make progress in any areas of knowledge.

If the general atmosphere is surcharged with fear and hypocrazy, and if the

relationships between guru and disciples are unreal and too mystical, many

important questions will never be asked, and speculations will prevail. Then

we have a speculation-parampara based on unknown persons who heard a bit

here and a bit there and taped it all together to mean something completely

different than the intention of the original guru.

To me it seems like a misconception, that the real guru knows absolutely

everything about his disciples, and that we dont have to clarify our

position to him, but simply follow his instructions without asking further.

Similarly we might think that we have understood everything, being

unaware of our own limitations. I find both mentalities dangerous. Thats

when the minor mistakes becomes big and hurtful. I have seen this often, and

that was why I responded to your text, not that I disagree with your general

wiewpoints. I appreciate your texts very much.

I hope I didn`t offend anyone with my limited understanding.

Your servant Gunamani d.d.

[Guest guest]

>Dear Mataji,

>Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

>Thanks for your note. You bring up important points. I posted a follow-up

>note that may address them. My original argument is related to the excesses

>arising from an irresponsible, confused mentality that we still notice on a

>daily basis within ISKCON and that affects the lives of innocent devotees,

>not from the ocassional minor honest mistake.

>YS RK Mex

Dear Prabhu.

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Thank you for clarifying, it seem to me that often problems arise because

of blind following on the part of the disciples, which is again a product of

the way we train new people.

If we dont dare to ask the questions on our mind in fear of becoming

ridiculed, it is very difficult to make progress in any areas of knowledge.

If the general atmosphere is surcharged with fear and hypocrazy, and if the

relationships between guru and disciples are unreal and too mystical, many

important questions will never be asked, and speculations will prevail. Then

we have a speculation-parampara based on unknown persons who heard a bit

here and a bit there and taped it all together to mean something completely

different than the intention of the original guru.

To me it seems like a misconception, that the real guru knows absolutely

everything about his disciples, and that we dont have to clarify our

position to him, but simply follow his instructions without asking further.

Similarly we might think that we have understood everything, being

unaware of our own limitations. I find both mentalities dangerous. Thats

when the minor mistakes becomes big and hurtful. I have seen this often, and

that was why I responded to your text, not that I disagree with your general

wiewpoints. I appreciate your texts very much.

I hope I didn`t offend anyone with my limited understanding.

Your servant Gunamani d.d.

[Guest guest]

Hilarious and thought provoking and excellent post of Hare Krisna dasi.

 

Gerald Surya

 

 

 

 

On 07 Jan 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

 

 

>

> Isn't there a statement like, "The Material Energy stands with folded hands

to

> serve the Pure Devotee of the Lord"?

>

> Who is a Pure Devotee? -- Srila Prabhupada

>

> What did he want his followers to do? -- Establish varnasrama villages

based

> on

> simple living and high thinking, so as to attract the non-devotees

>

> Have they done it? -- Not really.

>

> Do they need a "kick in the pants" so to speak? -- Yes.

>

> So if Maya-Devi is standing with folded hands, wishing to serve Krsna's Pure

> Devotee, how might she arrange things so as to help the devotees carry out

> Srila

> Prabhupada's desires to spread Krsna consciousness?

>

>

> your servant,

>

> Hare Krsna dasi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

[Guest guest]

Hilarious and thought provoking and excellent post of Hare Krisna dasi.

 

Gerald Surya

 

 

 

 

On 07 Jan 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

 

 

>

> Isn't there a statement like, "The Material Energy stands with folded hands

to

> serve the Pure Devotee of the Lord"?

>

> Who is a Pure Devotee? -- Srila Prabhupada

>

> What did he want his followers to do? -- Establish varnasrama villages

based

> on

> simple living and high thinking, so as to attract the non-devotees

>

> Have they done it? -- Not really.

>

> Do they need a "kick in the pants" so to speak? -- Yes.

>

> So if Maya-Devi is standing with folded hands, wishing to serve Krsna's Pure

> Devotee, how might she arrange things so as to help the devotees carry out

> Srila

> Prabhupada's desires to spread Krsna consciousness?

>

>

> your servant,

>

> Hare Krsna dasi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

[Guest guest]

On 04 Jan 1999, Vijaya-venugopala das wrote:

 

> >From my admittedly

> >limited readings, everyone appears to say there will be *some* effects

> >(e.g. social security checks will be delayed for a few weeks),

>

> Recently it was announced that the Social Security systems in the US had

> been remediated and are now Y2K compatible.

 

=====================forwarded message===============================

 

SSA is NOT Y2K compliant

Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:14:10 -0500

mike <tool (AT) city-net (DOT) com>

"nox2128 (AT) montana (DOT) com" <nox2128 (AT) montana (DOT) com>

 

We have heard on the news lately that the Social security

Admin. is Y2K compliant. The girl I am dating works for SSA and on Monday

1/4/99 she did a claim for a man. The next day the information came back to

her stating that the claim was over a year old and could not be done. When she

and her supervisor went to the SSA bulletin board they found out that all of

SSA was having the same problem. This did not make the news as the

announcement of compliance did. Just thought you might like to hear this. She

cannot confirm this glitch without revealing her name and she is reluctant to

do so.

 

Thanks for listening.

Mike

 

=================================end forward=============================

[Guest guest]

On 04 Jan 1999, Vijaya-venugopala das wrote:

 

> >From my admittedly

> >limited readings, everyone appears to say there will be *some* effects

> >(e.g. social security checks will be delayed for a few weeks),

>

> Recently it was announced that the Social Security systems in the US had

> been remediated and are now Y2K compatible.

 

=====================forwarded message===============================

 

SSA is NOT Y2K compliant

Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:14:10 -0500

mike <tool (AT) city-net (DOT) com>

"nox2128 (AT) montana (DOT) com" <nox2128 (AT) montana (DOT) com>

 

We have heard on the news lately that the Social security

Admin. is Y2K compliant. The girl I am dating works for SSA and on Monday

1/4/99 she did a claim for a man. The next day the information came back to

her stating that the claim was over a year old and could not be done. When she

and her supervisor went to the SSA bulletin board they found out that all of

SSA was having the same problem. This did not make the news as the

announcement of compliance did. Just thought you might like to hear this. She

cannot confirm this glitch without revealing her name and she is reluctant to

do so.

 

Thanks for listening.

Mike

 

=================================end forward=============================

[Guest guest]

>Just add up the millions lost by ISKCON in

>useless farms during the 1980's, the energy wasted in them, and the

>credibility lost among the devotee population for such decisions. Here in

>Mexico alone a farm was purchased in 1982 for $300,000.00US cash (plus the

>expenses of maintaining it for years) and then it was sold for one-fourth

>of the original price in 1989. The current GBC here has been presenting in

>the last few months the idea of a new farm, using the fears of the coming

>chaos in civilization as a justification. Unfortunately the reasons that

>caused the previous farm failure still prevail and warrant a new failure if

>the project goes ahead. And I don't think that this is the only case in

>ISKCON. That was the reason of my question.

 

I think many of us have realized for quite some time now that ISKCON

just buying land is not a good idea. If we are to acheive any resemblance to

varnasrama dharma then the land must either be distributed by the ksatriyas

to the vaisyas or sold to them or leased to them. No farmer is going to

invest his time and energy in imporving land if he has no security on it.

This is basic common sense or should I say human nature.

If ISKCON had done this years ago, you would have had devotees staying on

the properties that ISKCON purchased rather than moving to properties and

farms outside. Then they could have taught and learned from each other and

sold all their surplus commodities to the temples, brought up their children

in genuine family units and trained them up with real community spirit. And

have real facilities provided for the sanyassis and gurus to depend upon.

 

Just an observation,

 

Your servant,

 

Radha Krsna das. (GB)

[Guest guest]

>Just add up the millions lost by ISKCON in

>useless farms during the 1980's, the energy wasted in them, and the

>credibility lost among the devotee population for such decisions. Here in

>Mexico alone a farm was purchased in 1982 for $300,000.00US cash (plus the

>expenses of maintaining it for years) and then it was sold for one-fourth

>of the original price in 1989. The current GBC here has been presenting in

>the last few months the idea of a new farm, using the fears of the coming

>chaos in civilization as a justification. Unfortunately the reasons that

>caused the previous farm failure still prevail and warrant a new failure if

>the project goes ahead. And I don't think that this is the only case in

>ISKCON. That was the reason of my question.

 

I think many of us have realized for quite some time now that ISKCON

just buying land is not a good idea. If we are to acheive any resemblance to

varnasrama dharma then the land must either be distributed by the ksatriyas

to the vaisyas or sold to them or leased to them. No farmer is going to

invest his time and energy in imporving land if he has no security on it.

This is basic common sense or should I say human nature.

If ISKCON had done this years ago, you would have had devotees staying on

the properties that ISKCON purchased rather than moving to properties and

farms outside. Then they could have taught and learned from each other and

sold all their surplus commodities to the temples, brought up their children

in genuine family units and trained them up with real community spirit. And

have real facilities provided for the sanyassis and gurus to depend upon.

 

Just an observation,

 

Your servant,

 

Radha Krsna das. (GB)