RE: The dangers of being distracted by Y2K

[Guest guest]

At 8:47 -0800 1/2/99, COM: Jatukarnya (das) HKS (Cintamani Intl, Oslo - N)

wrote:

 

 

>I have understanding for your scepticism towards any doomday prophecies,

>especially after all that has happened in ISKCON. But I would be careful to

>compare the Y2k problems with these other prophecies, since this is

>something very much down-to-earth.

 

I agree that you don't need a crystal ball to see that the millenium bug

will cause some problems. However, I share Mahajana Prabhu's concern that

it is unwise to start painting doomsday scenarios to justify preaching - or

to include these *in* our preaching. After the recent texts predicting

basically an "end to the world as we know it", I finally started reading

some sources whom I trust (no, not doomsday web sites). From my admittedly

limited readings, everyone appears to say there will be *some* effects

(e.g. social security checks will be delayed for a few weeks), but there is

a *wide* range of predictions re. the *level* of disruption. So it is in

this range that the similarities to the various world wars and other failed

predictions of calamities mentioned by Mahajana prabhu appear. I have not

read any predictions of total collapse or starvation from anyone I trust on

this matter. Unless that changes, my own preparations are going to be very

modest and not too different from what I always do in terms of disaster

preparedness (living in earthquake country).

 

So in the final analyses, this becomes a personal decision, based on our

individual research and faith. We should all get prepared according to our

own level of concern. There is nothing wrong with extensive preparations

and if this effort moves some people closer to self sufficiency that's an

added bonus. However, I would hope that we don't go out into the public

and act like we know the world is going to end. People won't believe us

anyway and if/when this does not happen, we will again become a laughing

stock. Actually, such behavior is not a good strategy even if the doomsday

predictions are correct. If there is mayhem and starvation, no one will

appreciate hearing "I told you so". However, they will appreciate your

preparation and willingness to help them.

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

At 8:47 -0800 1/2/99, COM: Jatukarnya (das) HKS (Cintamani Intl, Oslo - N)

wrote:

 

 

>I have understanding for your scepticism towards any doomday prophecies,

>especially after all that has happened in ISKCON. But I would be careful to

>compare the Y2k problems with these other prophecies, since this is

>something very much down-to-earth.

 

I agree that you don't need a crystal ball to see that the millenium bug

will cause some problems. However, I share Mahajana Prabhu's concern that

it is unwise to start painting doomsday scenarios to justify preaching - or

to include these *in* our preaching. After the recent texts predicting

basically an "end to the world as we know it", I finally started reading

some sources whom I trust (no, not doomsday web sites). From my admittedly

limited readings, everyone appears to say there will be *some* effects

(e.g. social security checks will be delayed for a few weeks), but there is

a *wide* range of predictions re. the *level* of disruption. So it is in

this range that the similarities to the various world wars and other failed

predictions of calamities mentioned by Mahajana prabhu appear. I have not

read any predictions of total collapse or starvation from anyone I trust on

this matter. Unless that changes, my own preparations are going to be very

modest and not too different from what I always do in terms of disaster

preparedness (living in earthquake country).

 

So in the final analyses, this becomes a personal decision, based on our

individual research and faith. We should all get prepared according to our

own level of concern. There is nothing wrong with extensive preparations

and if this effort moves some people closer to self sufficiency that's an

added bonus. However, I would hope that we don't go out into the public

and act like we know the world is going to end. People won't believe us

anyway and if/when this does not happen, we will again become a laughing

stock. Actually, such behavior is not a good strategy even if the doomsday

predictions are correct. If there is mayhem and starvation, no one will

appreciate hearing "I told you so". However, they will appreciate your

preparation and willingness to help them.

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

> So in the final analyses, this becomes a personal decision, based on our

> individual research and faith. We should all get prepared according to

> our own level of concern. There is nothing wrong with extensive

> preparations and if this effort moves some people closer to self

> sufficiency that's an added bonus. However, I would hope that we don't go

> out into the public and act like we know the world is going to end. People

> won't believe us anyway and if/when this does not happen, we will again

> become a laughing stock. Actually, such behavior is not a good strategy

> even if the doomsday predictions are correct. If there is mayhem and

> starvation, no one will appreciate hearing "I told you so". However, they

> will appreciate your preparation and willingness to help them.

 

I agree with this. It seems to me that a lot of others are anyway going to

"tell" the public about all the problems related to Y2K, and that ISKCON

does not "need" to also officially preach this.

 

I just think it is important that devotees get to know about the possible

dangers (for they are there, that I am convinced about) in regards to Y2K,

for their own personal benefit and security.

 

Ys

Jkd

[Guest guest]

> So in the final analyses, this becomes a personal decision, based on our

> individual research and faith. We should all get prepared according to

> our own level of concern. There is nothing wrong with extensive

> preparations and if this effort moves some people closer to self

> sufficiency that's an added bonus. However, I would hope that we don't go

> out into the public and act like we know the world is going to end. People

> won't believe us anyway and if/when this does not happen, we will again

> become a laughing stock. Actually, such behavior is not a good strategy

> even if the doomsday predictions are correct. If there is mayhem and

> starvation, no one will appreciate hearing "I told you so". However, they

> will appreciate your preparation and willingness to help them.

 

I agree with this. It seems to me that a lot of others are anyway going to

"tell" the public about all the problems related to Y2K, and that ISKCON

does not "need" to also officially preach this.

 

I just think it is important that devotees get to know about the possible

dangers (for they are there, that I am convinced about) in regards to Y2K,

for their own personal benefit and security.

 

Ys

Jkd

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I agree with this. It seems to me that a lot of others are anyway going to

> "tell" the public about all the problems related to Y2K, and that ISKCON

> does not "need" to also officially preach this.

>

> I just think it is important that devotees get to know about the possible

> dangers (for they are there, that I am convinced about) in regards to Y2K,

> for their own personal benefit and security.

>

> Ys

> Jkd

 

If we are funding cow protection programs with a view to longterm stability,

then automatically we are preparing for Y2K, continental split, nuclear war,

etc. Realistically, other than some hoarding, it is already too late to do

real long term social engineering to have effective, viable communities after

Y2K. If it does nothing else, I hope Y2K shines some light on how unprepared

we really are.

 

Passionate , last minute rushes to develop stable VAD will be met with

frustration. It takes 5 years to bring an apple tree into bearing. Trees for

post cataclysmic events need to be planted well in advance. But even if

someone

doesn't believe the oil based society is headed for doom, at least they should

still be planting trees, or funding programs for planting trees, if for no

other reason that fruit raised by devotees is more relishable than oil based

fruits raised by meateaters.

 

For those who do want to take the longeterm vision, in northern temperature

zones I would advise planting strawberries, rhubarb, blueberries, grapes, and

apples as soon as possible. This will give you practically year round fresh

fruit, especially if some of the apple varieties are picked with storage as a

criterion. The strawberries planted in 1999 willbe ready in 2000, rhubarb

2001, grapes 2002, some blueberries by 2003, and in 2004, the apples will

start dribbling in. Besides fresh fruit that is storable, apples produce

vinegar which is both medicinal and a good cleaning agent, so somewhere along

the line pick up a cider press and prepare a root cellar.

 

To have cow protection you need cowherders and they also need to be fed.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I agree with this. It seems to me that a lot of others are anyway going to

> "tell" the public about all the problems related to Y2K, and that ISKCON

> does not "need" to also officially preach this.

>

> I just think it is important that devotees get to know about the possible

> dangers (for they are there, that I am convinced about) in regards to Y2K,

> for their own personal benefit and security.

>

> Ys

> Jkd

 

If we are funding cow protection programs with a view to longterm stability,

then automatically we are preparing for Y2K, continental split, nuclear war,

etc. Realistically, other than some hoarding, it is already too late to do

real long term social engineering to have effective, viable communities after

Y2K. If it does nothing else, I hope Y2K shines some light on how unprepared

we really are.

 

Passionate , last minute rushes to develop stable VAD will be met with

frustration. It takes 5 years to bring an apple tree into bearing. Trees for

post cataclysmic events need to be planted well in advance. But even if

someone

doesn't believe the oil based society is headed for doom, at least they should

still be planting trees, or funding programs for planting trees, if for no

other reason that fruit raised by devotees is more relishable than oil based

fruits raised by meateaters.

 

For those who do want to take the longeterm vision, in northern temperature

zones I would advise planting strawberries, rhubarb, blueberries, grapes, and

apples as soon as possible. This will give you practically year round fresh

fruit, especially if some of the apple varieties are picked with storage as a

criterion. The strawberries planted in 1999 willbe ready in 2000, rhubarb

2001, grapes 2002, some blueberries by 2003, and in 2004, the apples will

start dribbling in. Besides fresh fruit that is storable, apples produce

vinegar which is both medicinal and a good cleaning agent, so somewhere along

the line pick up a cider press and prepare a root cellar.

 

To have cow protection you need cowherders and they also need to be fed.

[Guest guest]

> It seems to me that a lot of others are anyway going to

> "tell" the public about all the problems related to Y2K, and that ISKCON

> does not "need" to also officially preach this.

>

> I just think it is important that devotees get to know about the possible

> dangers (for they are there, that I am convinced about) in regards to Y2K,

> for their own personal benefit and security.

 

Dear devotees,

 

Because this conference is also discussing about y2k, I am posting you

this long text, which may give you some better understanding about the

present situation. Although it has not directly something to do with

Varnasrama or social and economic development, it may be

important for devotees to know about those facts.

 

Some devotees along with myself did a lot of

researchwork on those subjects, and I am presenting you the essence

of our research here it this text.

 

If you believe this things or not, is your responsibility. We have seen

a lot of naivity regarding y2k and other things amongst devotees, so

please study this text seriously and act accordingly.

 

y.s. Stoka Krsna dasa

 

Gauranga Prabhu wrote:

 

- The y2k problem is a trigger for more chaos and it will be used as

- the EXCUSE, a ploy, to further condition the masses into the belief

- that it is safer to have a (ONE) world bank, world government...

- They are already doing all this in the media.

 

HH Devamrita Maharaja wrote:

 

- Perhaps it is good to hear from Congregational Devotee X,

- who has just been promoted to be in charge of all international

- economic information and research for the Reserve Bank of

- Australia, and who directly advises the governor--the executive head

- of the bank. That governor works with all the other governors of

- Reserve Banks throughout the world, all of whom defer to the

- Federal Reserve Bank in the USA. better to say that among the

- central banks of the world there is "coordinated interaction." As for

- the notion that the world financial markets are controlled by a few

- persons, he retorts that it is better merely to say that there are TWO

- OR THREE PERSONS (he names them) at the IMF (International

- Monetary Fund) who have an "inordinate amount of influence.He

- explains, with a straight face, that it is n't command all the time, he

- gently protests. He does admit, though, that when they do say

- something, ALL the central bankers JUMP.

 

Madhusudana Prabhu wrote:

 

- We can see that politicians, leaders, and people in general are all

- controlled by the political and economic decisions of bankers, not

- government officials. Furthermore, bankers have used their wealth

- to purchase many of the media, and thus control the news, many

- publications, and radio and television networks. Thus people's

- outlooks on life and EVEN THE WAY THEY DO THINGS

- are CONTROLLED by these means. (what about y2k?)

 

> Y2K is most proberly a thing arranged by the demons. (SKD)

 

- Yes, I was thinking the same. I can hardly imagine that when they

- start to produce computers that "no one" thought about two digit

- numbers. The demons knew perfectly well what will happen and

- Y2K is one of their plans. Demons are meant to destroy the world

- and nothing else! This is their nature. What is their next plan after

- Y2K?

 

- But I would like to know how much will this affect them? They use

- all kind of computers which probably are so advanced that we can't

- imagine. Nowadays it's very popular to have computer (lap-top) with

- Pentium 2, 266 Mhz, 5-6 Gb etc... This kind of stuff USA and others

- were using 20 years ago for Army or Space purpose. GOD know's

- what kind of powerful comp. are operating now!?

 

 

As devotees, members of our ISKCON institution and as responsible

individuums we take respectable informations very serious. Although

this informations may deal with a very difficult and complex subject,

nethertheless one can not neglect them because of laziness or

indifference. As Bhagavatam describes in the 12 Canto,

one who seeks to understand the past and the future, is in the mode of

goodness, and this is what we want to do (at least for the time-being).

 

On the basis of intense research we found much information, which shows,

that social life, in all the different areas, will very soon not be

buisness as usual. Different cercumstances will influence our work in

ISKCON and also our private life on many levels.

 

In the moment, the large society is becoming prepaired about the year

2000 computer problem, called y2k.

 

"There is little realization that there will be disruption of basic

services," Sherry Burns, a CIA analyst, recently told Reuters. "We are

concerned about the potenial disruption of power grids,

telecommunications, and banking services." In todays high tech, globally

linked financial markets, market interventions are not possible unless

ALL computers in an international chain WORK TOGETHER...

 

Interesting points, which this CIA analyst is presenting us, isn`t it?

In this way, Y2k is decribed as a big problem in the media. But this CIA man

forgot to tell us, that y2k may also be a chance for banks,

governments etc. TO UNITE THINGS. (I think, there is no need

for me to tell you, that presently the world is controlled by asuras,

and their plans for worldcontrol are always asuric)

 

To understand the plans of those present asuras, one has to go through a

lot of research work.. (this was done by a combined work of a few

devotees, especially Atma tattva Prabhu, who has published some books in

german language about this topics) This planning is going on since a long

time ( accualy more than 5000 years), creating institutional religions and

their

different dogmas, science, changement of the DNS of humans at the

beginning of Kaliyuga, incarnated asuric agents as human beings, all those

wars, especially world war one, two etc. are not accidents but planned.

 

To discribe you everything mentioned above, it will take some books, so

I will give you some examples, about what is going on NOW at the present

moment:

 

The "cold war" between US and SU was a planned arrangement to have

some so-called enemy. This was the perfect arrangement for our

technological advancement. Much concentrations was done in europe,

because there is the center, from which the (asuric) world will expand

and will be united.

Today we see the dendencies to unite everything, the currencies (EURO),

the banks, UN, NATO, EU etc.

 

This cold war was created to push on the technological infrastructure

(see the plans of Ronald Reagan and George Bush

with his "star war" efforts.) It took 50 years for a global technological

infrastructure. Fact is, that during this "cold war", huge US-computer-

companies supplied Russians military and all their other departments with

advanced computertechnology. Russias government, namely the head of

the department of communication, Alexander Krupnow, also made the

first official government statement warning about the y2k problem.

Fact is that today, this step of a global infrastructure is succeeded.

So we can expect another step very soon.

 

Beside of that, also spiritual and godly forces are established all over the

world. A new golden age (satya-yuga) will be established, and those

powerful asuras with Kali on the top of course know about it. Therefore

they try to change the karma of general people and try to manipulate the

consciousness of people (especially through TV and media etc.) so that

this new age may not appair. Devotees are also being attacted through

different means. (especially through entanglement in unnesessary (subtle)

battles). And, most important for our time, "the snake bits before it

dies". So the asuras will now push on their plans in a very extreme way.

 

As we know from vedic knowledge, the material world is multi-

dimensional, and there are millions of different living entities in this

universe.

 

We have substantial informations, that since many years, the US-

Government is working together with negative aliens.

 

Those aliens made our technological advancement possible. Of course,

those technologies, which are presently known, are just some

remnants for the public. There is an area in america known as area 51,

a top secret base, where human scientists are working together with

at least three different races of aliens. The government made

a contract with the aliens, that they give technology in exchange for

humans, on which they make experiments for their purposes. A scientific

minded devotee, Varahadava Prabhu, explained, that they are already

creating the seeds for the future kali yuga developments by creating hybrids,

which look like monsters. There are already many scientific documented

books about abductions from aliens, which are making experiments on

humans. Fortunatly, we presently also had contacts with positive

extraterrestrial friends, like for example the sungod of our system.

According to a message of that sungod, the government will very soon

present those negative aliens to the public.

 

This is already presently done through different films and documentations

on western TV, to indroduce those aliens to the public in a more or less

unconcious way. We also have informations, which are also

explaining the meanings of the old apocalyptic visions, that the snake in

those visions is symbolizing beings from regions of snakes and lizards

(in Sankr. nagas) Those nagas were not only active 5000 years ago,

(the death of King Pariksit) but are also presently very active here on earth.

 

According to the sungod, when those chaotic times through catastrophies etc.

appairs, very powerful negative agents will openly appair on earth and will

offer their "help". They will speak about love and truth, and they will

bewilder all those, whose spiritual discrimination is not yet profound.

 

The proofs for this influence of those present negative aliens are not only

found in the channeling informations, also not only in Srimad Bhagavatam,

but also from complitly different other sources which are more

"down to earth". One example:

 

Milton William Cooper got 1968 the "Naval Commendation decoration" of

the NAVY and became a member of the marine-secret service. At that time he

got informations of Top Secret-category. This informations dealt about

secret underground military bases, about UFOs and ET-contacts, and about

the new world order. He is giving concret informations, how the government

got into all this, how they established secret services aso. Besides the NSA

(National Security Agency) at the time of President Truman, another gremium

was established, namely MJ-12, under President Eisenhower, which dealt

about this extraterrestials phenomenon.

 

Area 51 is a very famous undergroundbase in america. Here most of the

secret technology was created. Different people, who work on this bases,

published some books about the happenings there. They speak about

different rases of aliens, which are openly working together with

human scientists. Most of this publishers were killed after speaking openly,

one of them was Thomas E. Castello. (there is a lot more informations

available, but it would take to much time to translate everything and to

write everything down. It mostly deals about asuric things, so there

is no need to go in all this details).

 

The biblical prophecy is speaking about two antichrist and the symbol 666.

One is a very powerful political leader, and one a "religious" asuric leader.

 

The 666 code is already seen everywhere. Two most obvious sources are:

 

www as world wide web. www in the hebrew language means 666.

 

and the computercode, which is on all articles of each product, which one buys

in the supermarkets. The code, which is on all the packets of each product,

has at the beginning 2 lines, in the middle 2 lines, and at the end 2 lines.

Those

two lines are longer then the articlenumbers and they represent the number 6

each.

 

In his roman 1984 George Orwell decribes global controll through

cameras, but

today we have more subtle possibilities. Each part of the earth is

overseen by satellits. Since some years, one product for general people, namely

 

the "global positioning system" helps cardrivers to find the fasted way to

their

destination. This computer is installed in your car. You only have to tell,

were you want to go, the computer tells you through satellit, what the

fastest way is. The satellit can see each and every corner and each road, the

present traffic etc.

 

If this general products for the public, which cost about some few hundert

dollars,

already has such kind of possibilities, then we can imagine, that the secret

technology, which is now (and only just NOW) available, is enougth powerful

to be able to control the whole world and each individuum.

 

"Microchips" is the present keyword. At the present moment, we can see,

that papermoney is becoming a very dangerous subject. (y2k, messages from

FED-bankers, global economic problems, etc.) It may not have much value

anymore in near future. (in russia already a fact). The point is, paper money

is very anonymous, nobody knows, who has paid etc. Credit cards were the

first steps to have more control over the moneyflow. To have full control,

the best is to have everything on one card (or chip). So if an economic

breakdown appairs, the global propaganda will be, that we have to get rid

of this paper money, and we will only have numbers in computers and

microchips for the individual, on which all nesessary informations are

registered.

 

This is reprinted from the promotional web site of the leading manufacturer

of implantable

microchips. Presently they are being widely used foridentifying

animals.]AVID "Canadian Standard" MicrochipThe AVID (FECAVA/ISO)

injectable microchip features a custom integratedcircuit coil and

capacitor hermetically sealed in biocompatible glasscontaining a

programmed identification number. The whole device is smallenough to fit

inside a hypodermic needle and can be simply injected underthe skin of

an animal, where it will stay for the life of the animal. Thisprovides

permanent, positive identification which cannot be lost, altered or

intentionally removed - a safe, simple and inexpensive way to protect

youranimals against loss or theft.Once injected under the skin of an

animal, the AVID microchip is encased bya thin layer of protein which

anchors it in place for the rest of the lifeof the animal. It does not

pass through or out of the body. The microchipitself has no power supply

to replace or moving part to wear down.Therefore, it can be expected to

last for decades - well beyond the lifespan of the animals.The computer

memory in the AVID microchip contains a unique number - no twoanimals

will ever have the same number. A radio signal is used to read this

number through the skin of an animal. In addition to the number, the

microchip generates a reliability check to guarantee that the

identifyingnumber is read accurately. This all takes place in less than

04 seconds.The MicrochipSAFE, PERMANENT & POSITIVE: The microchip is

constructed of non-toxiccomponents hermetically sealed in biocompatible

glass. It is designed withan operating life exceeding 25 years. It is

passive in nature, requiring nobatteries. After implantation a small

layer of connective tissue formsaround the microchip, preventing

migration.TAMPER-PROOF & UNIQUE: Each microchip is uniquely coded by a

computercontrolled process that ensures no duplication. This code cannot

be altered.Over a trillion unique combinations are possible. Because of

the randomprocess, specific numbers or groups of numbers are not

available.USABLE IN ALL SPECIES OF ANIMALS: The microchip is about the

size of apencil lead and is therefore suitable for injection into

virtually allanimals. This includes parakeets and up to the size of a

Killer Whale.Extensive testing, more than ten years, in a wide variety

of animals hasshown no adverse side effects to the health of the animal.

EASY IMPLANTATION: Implantation is no more difficult than a routine

injection when performed by a Veterinarian. It takes less than a minute

including preparation. Once implanted, the microchip requires no further

attention during the animals’ life.UNBIASED: Most forms of

identification require subjective interpretation bythe observer -

coloring, tattoo, marking, etc. The code generated by themicrochip is

read by the scanner and is not subject to interpretation.Consequently,

error is eliminated.HUMANE: The microchip is implanted with a specially

designed, pre-sterilizedneedle, causing no more discomfort than a

routine injection. All implantsare performed in a specific site

location, usually subcutaneously, whichassures virtually no pain. The

physical ability and performance of theanimal is not impeded; there is

no scarring or disfigurement. Most animalsare unaware that they have

received an injection!Animals of any age can be injected with the AVID

microchip. Puppies andkittens can be identified during their initial

vaccine series. Birds, horsesand exotics can be identified at any time.

 

I have other long texts, how this microchips were introduced to the

US army. Many soldiers have their microchips already in their arms.

(by the way, prince charles and his sons also)

 

Here is another text from a christian:

 

"Right now, there is a computer chip the size of a grain of rice.

(1/4 inch long) This computer chip can carry all information on

any individual and is selfcharging. It is charged by the bodies heat, and

after planners spent 1.5 million of your tax dollars, they found out that

the best places to put this chip wouldbe in the right hand or if that is

missing, in the forehead. This chip will be interjected in the hand or

forehead in the same way as a shot. There will be 18 digits, your zip code,

plus the extra four digits after the dash and your social security number,

burned on the chip. These 18 digits will be grouped in three

groups of six numbers. Dr. Sanders, one of the engineers of this chip

(#BT952000--called Emergency Intrusive Identification

Locator) commented, "I believe this to be the "Mark of the Beast".

 

 

Many devotees, believe, that this changes through y2k, natural catastrophies

and other things will help to destroy the present infrastructure of the demons

and will help us to bring a new golden, spiritually advanced age in our

society. I would also like that, but unfortunatly, that is maybe only

the half truth and it may be not as easy as that.

 

There is much evidence about the plans of the demons, how they want

to control humans on the planet, namely through those microchips.

Why was there not any big worldwar in the last 50 years?

Because the demons had to develope a technological infrastructure! Now

the technologybuisness is complite, through satelites, computers and

microchips they now have an technological infrastructure to control the

whole world and each individuum, who survives the coming catastrophies.

 

Y2k may be only another plan to have some artificial crisis to push

on those plans. We have a lot of evidence for that.

 

The following informations are coming from Gary North:

 

"Who Gave Us the Two-Digit Year?

The Pentagon, Says Ex-Programmer

 

Link: http://www.dallasnews.com/technology-nf/techbiz1.htm

Comment:  This article tells of a former Pentagon programmer who says

that in the early 1960's, he saw that y2k would hit, and he warned his

superiors.

They ignored him. Then the Pentagon went on to mandate a two-digit year.

 

. . Harry S. White Jr., a young data elements code specialist at the

Defense Department, argued for using all four numbers. . . . "The light

went on for me in the early 1960s," he said. "I could see many

applications by necessity needed a four-digit year. Personnel, medical

records, retirement. When you do those with two digits, it will cause

considerable problems. . . . was not too popular back then." Two more

numbers. Two extra keystrokes. If the Pentagon had agreed, one of

history's strangest calamities could have been avoided. Instead, at the

Pentagon's urging, the first federal data processing standard for

calendar years called for a two-digit year, leaving millions of

computers

without the ability to comprehend the turn of the

century. . . . The first article alerting computer programmers to the

millennium bug - "Time and the Computer" in the February 1979 issue of

Interface Age - was written by Dallas computer pioneer Bob Bemer. . . .

The Pentagon convened a Conference on Data Systems Languages in the late

 

1950s that produced COBOL, the Common Business Oriented Language.....

 

"The computer industry was exploding like crazy," Mr. Bemer said. "We

said, 'We don't know what we're doing. Let's pause and take a look.' I

was going to use this as a platform to sell the four-digit year." In

1970, President Nixon refused. Mr. Bemer said he never learned why. . .

 

 

So, after a lot of researchwork, we expect following scenario.

 

Beginning of 1999 global economic crash, summer 1999 world war

may start, stopped by huge natural catastrophies (comets etc). One of

three people killed, population about 3-4 billions left (population of the

year 1950) Everything (infrastructure etc. ) collapsed, at least on the

general level, but the demons are the most prepaired, they have put some

satelities and some advanced technologies like huge

computers and other infrastructure aside with the help of demoniac aliens,

they let humans suffer for some more months, maybe 2 years, until people

are becoming so frustrated that they will accept everyone as their world

leader. Maybe in this chaotic times, even the negative aliens will openly

come and offer their "help". This leaders have already those microships

prepaired aso.

 

There is a lot more to say, especially about more positive things, but I

thought,

that I first present you those negative facts, so that you may move from

that naivity, that y2k may be Krsna´s arrangement for a better preaching.

 

Y2k is an arrangement by demons, that is crystalclear.

 

My conclusion is: Lets become serious in our own efforts for spiritual

advancement.

 

y.s.

Stoka Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

> It seems to me that a lot of others are anyway going to

> "tell" the public about all the problems related to Y2K, and that ISKCON

> does not "need" to also officially preach this.

>

> I just think it is important that devotees get to know about the possible

> dangers (for they are there, that I am convinced about) in regards to Y2K,

> for their own personal benefit and security.

 

Dear devotees,

 

Because this conference is also discussing about y2k, I am posting you

this long text, which may give you some better understanding about the

present situation. Although it has not directly something to do with

Varnasrama or social and economic development, it may be

important for devotees to know about those facts.

 

Some devotees along with myself did a lot of

researchwork on those subjects, and I am presenting you the essence

of our research here it this text.

 

If you believe this things or not, is your responsibility. We have seen

a lot of naivity regarding y2k and other things amongst devotees, so

please study this text seriously and act accordingly.

 

y.s. Stoka Krsna dasa

 

Gauranga Prabhu wrote:

 

- The y2k problem is a trigger for more chaos and it will be used as

- the EXCUSE, a ploy, to further condition the masses into the belief

- that it is safer to have a (ONE) world bank, world government...

- They are already doing all this in the media.

 

HH Devamrita Maharaja wrote:

 

- Perhaps it is good to hear from Congregational Devotee X,

- who has just been promoted to be in charge of all international

- economic information and research for the Reserve Bank of

- Australia, and who directly advises the governor--the executive head

- of the bank. That governor works with all the other governors of

- Reserve Banks throughout the world, all of whom defer to the

- Federal Reserve Bank in the USA. better to say that among the

- central banks of the world there is "coordinated interaction." As for

- the notion that the world financial markets are controlled by a few

- persons, he retorts that it is better merely to say that there are TWO

- OR THREE PERSONS (he names them) at the IMF (International

- Monetary Fund) who have an "inordinate amount of influence.He

- explains, with a straight face, that it is n't command all the time, he

- gently protests. He does admit, though, that when they do say

- something, ALL the central bankers JUMP.

 

Madhusudana Prabhu wrote:

 

- We can see that politicians, leaders, and people in general are all

- controlled by the political and economic decisions of bankers, not

- government officials. Furthermore, bankers have used their wealth

- to purchase many of the media, and thus control the news, many

- publications, and radio and television networks. Thus people's

- outlooks on life and EVEN THE WAY THEY DO THINGS

- are CONTROLLED by these means. (what about y2k?)

 

> Y2K is most proberly a thing arranged by the demons. (SKD)

 

- Yes, I was thinking the same. I can hardly imagine that when they

- start to produce computers that "no one" thought about two digit

- numbers. The demons knew perfectly well what will happen and

- Y2K is one of their plans. Demons are meant to destroy the world

- and nothing else! This is their nature. What is their next plan after

- Y2K?

 

- But I would like to know how much will this affect them? They use

- all kind of computers which probably are so advanced that we can't

- imagine. Nowadays it's very popular to have computer (lap-top) with

- Pentium 2, 266 Mhz, 5-6 Gb etc... This kind of stuff USA and others

- were using 20 years ago for Army or Space purpose. GOD know's

- what kind of powerful comp. are operating now!?

 

 

As devotees, members of our ISKCON institution and as responsible

individuums we take respectable informations very serious. Although

this informations may deal with a very difficult and complex subject,

nethertheless one can not neglect them because of laziness or

indifference. As Bhagavatam describes in the 12 Canto,

one who seeks to understand the past and the future, is in the mode of

goodness, and this is what we want to do (at least for the time-being).

 

On the basis of intense research we found much information, which shows,

that social life, in all the different areas, will very soon not be

buisness as usual. Different cercumstances will influence our work in

ISKCON and also our private life on many levels.

 

In the moment, the large society is becoming prepaired about the year

2000 computer problem, called y2k.

 

"There is little realization that there will be disruption of basic

services," Sherry Burns, a CIA analyst, recently told Reuters. "We are

concerned about the potenial disruption of power grids,

telecommunications, and banking services." In todays high tech, globally

linked financial markets, market interventions are not possible unless

ALL computers in an international chain WORK TOGETHER...

 

Interesting points, which this CIA analyst is presenting us, isn`t it?

In this way, Y2k is decribed as a big problem in the media. But this CIA man

forgot to tell us, that y2k may also be a chance for banks,

governments etc. TO UNITE THINGS. (I think, there is no need

for me to tell you, that presently the world is controlled by asuras,

and their plans for worldcontrol are always asuric)

 

To understand the plans of those present asuras, one has to go through a

lot of research work.. (this was done by a combined work of a few

devotees, especially Atma tattva Prabhu, who has published some books in

german language about this topics) This planning is going on since a long

time ( accualy more than 5000 years), creating institutional religions and

their

different dogmas, science, changement of the DNS of humans at the

beginning of Kaliyuga, incarnated asuric agents as human beings, all those

wars, especially world war one, two etc. are not accidents but planned.

 

To discribe you everything mentioned above, it will take some books, so

I will give you some examples, about what is going on NOW at the present

moment:

 

The "cold war" between US and SU was a planned arrangement to have

some so-called enemy. This was the perfect arrangement for our

technological advancement. Much concentrations was done in europe,

because there is the center, from which the (asuric) world will expand

and will be united.

Today we see the dendencies to unite everything, the currencies (EURO),

the banks, UN, NATO, EU etc.

 

This cold war was created to push on the technological infrastructure

(see the plans of Ronald Reagan and George Bush

with his "star war" efforts.) It took 50 years for a global technological

infrastructure. Fact is, that during this "cold war", huge US-computer-

companies supplied Russians military and all their other departments with

advanced computertechnology. Russias government, namely the head of

the department of communication, Alexander Krupnow, also made the

first official government statement warning about the y2k problem.

Fact is that today, this step of a global infrastructure is succeeded.

So we can expect another step very soon.

 

Beside of that, also spiritual and godly forces are established all over the

world. A new golden age (satya-yuga) will be established, and those

powerful asuras with Kali on the top of course know about it. Therefore

they try to change the karma of general people and try to manipulate the

consciousness of people (especially through TV and media etc.) so that

this new age may not appair. Devotees are also being attacted through

different means. (especially through entanglement in unnesessary (subtle)

battles). And, most important for our time, "the snake bits before it

dies". So the asuras will now push on their plans in a very extreme way.

 

As we know from vedic knowledge, the material world is multi-

dimensional, and there are millions of different living entities in this

universe.

 

We have substantial informations, that since many years, the US-

Government is working together with negative aliens.

 

Those aliens made our technological advancement possible. Of course,

those technologies, which are presently known, are just some

remnants for the public. There is an area in america known as area 51,

a top secret base, where human scientists are working together with

at least three different races of aliens. The government made

a contract with the aliens, that they give technology in exchange for

humans, on which they make experiments for their purposes. A scientific

minded devotee, Varahadava Prabhu, explained, that they are already

creating the seeds for the future kali yuga developments by creating hybrids,

which look like monsters. There are already many scientific documented

books about abductions from aliens, which are making experiments on

humans. Fortunatly, we presently also had contacts with positive

extraterrestrial friends, like for example the sungod of our system.

According to a message of that sungod, the government will very soon

present those negative aliens to the public.

 

This is already presently done through different films and documentations

on western TV, to indroduce those aliens to the public in a more or less

unconcious way. We also have informations, which are also

explaining the meanings of the old apocalyptic visions, that the snake in

those visions is symbolizing beings from regions of snakes and lizards

(in Sankr. nagas) Those nagas were not only active 5000 years ago,

(the death of King Pariksit) but are also presently very active here on earth.

 

According to the sungod, when those chaotic times through catastrophies etc.

appairs, very powerful negative agents will openly appair on earth and will

offer their "help". They will speak about love and truth, and they will

bewilder all those, whose spiritual discrimination is not yet profound.

 

The proofs for this influence of those present negative aliens are not only

found in the channeling informations, also not only in Srimad Bhagavatam,

but also from complitly different other sources which are more

"down to earth". One example:

 

Milton William Cooper got 1968 the "Naval Commendation decoration" of

the NAVY and became a member of the marine-secret service. At that time he

got informations of Top Secret-category. This informations dealt about

secret underground military bases, about UFOs and ET-contacts, and about

the new world order. He is giving concret informations, how the government

got into all this, how they established secret services aso. Besides the NSA

(National Security Agency) at the time of President Truman, another gremium

was established, namely MJ-12, under President Eisenhower, which dealt

about this extraterrestials phenomenon.

 

Area 51 is a very famous undergroundbase in america. Here most of the

secret technology was created. Different people, who work on this bases,

published some books about the happenings there. They speak about

different rases of aliens, which are openly working together with

human scientists. Most of this publishers were killed after speaking openly,

one of them was Thomas E. Castello. (there is a lot more informations

available, but it would take to much time to translate everything and to

write everything down. It mostly deals about asuric things, so there

is no need to go in all this details).

 

The biblical prophecy is speaking about two antichrist and the symbol 666.

One is a very powerful political leader, and one a "religious" asuric leader.

 

The 666 code is already seen everywhere. Two most obvious sources are:

 

www as world wide web. www in the hebrew language means 666.

 

and the computercode, which is on all articles of each product, which one buys

in the supermarkets. The code, which is on all the packets of each product,

has at the beginning 2 lines, in the middle 2 lines, and at the end 2 lines.

Those

two lines are longer then the articlenumbers and they represent the number 6

each.

 

In his roman 1984 George Orwell decribes global controll through

cameras, but

today we have more subtle possibilities. Each part of the earth is

overseen by satellits. Since some years, one product for general people, namely

 

the "global positioning system" helps cardrivers to find the fasted way to

their

destination. This computer is installed in your car. You only have to tell,

were you want to go, the computer tells you through satellit, what the

fastest way is. The satellit can see each and every corner and each road, the

present traffic etc.

 

If this general products for the public, which cost about some few hundert

dollars,

already has such kind of possibilities, then we can imagine, that the secret

technology, which is now (and only just NOW) available, is enougth powerful

to be able to control the whole world and each individuum.

 

"Microchips" is the present keyword. At the present moment, we can see,

that papermoney is becoming a very dangerous subject. (y2k, messages from

FED-bankers, global economic problems, etc.) It may not have much value

anymore in near future. (in russia already a fact). The point is, paper money

is very anonymous, nobody knows, who has paid etc. Credit cards were the

first steps to have more control over the moneyflow. To have full control,

the best is to have everything on one card (or chip). So if an economic

breakdown appairs, the global propaganda will be, that we have to get rid

of this paper money, and we will only have numbers in computers and

microchips for the individual, on which all nesessary informations are

registered.

 

This is reprinted from the promotional web site of the leading manufacturer

of implantable

microchips. Presently they are being widely used foridentifying

animals.]AVID "Canadian Standard" MicrochipThe AVID (FECAVA/ISO)

injectable microchip features a custom integratedcircuit coil and

capacitor hermetically sealed in biocompatible glasscontaining a

programmed identification number. The whole device is smallenough to fit

inside a hypodermic needle and can be simply injected underthe skin of

an animal, where it will stay for the life of the animal. Thisprovides

permanent, positive identification which cannot be lost, altered or

intentionally removed - a safe, simple and inexpensive way to protect

youranimals against loss or theft.Once injected under the skin of an

animal, the AVID microchip is encased bya thin layer of protein which

anchors it in place for the rest of the lifeof the animal. It does not

pass through or out of the body. The microchipitself has no power supply

to replace or moving part to wear down.Therefore, it can be expected to

last for decades - well beyond the lifespan of the animals.The computer

memory in the AVID microchip contains a unique number - no twoanimals

will ever have the same number. A radio signal is used to read this

number through the skin of an animal. In addition to the number, the

microchip generates a reliability check to guarantee that the

identifyingnumber is read accurately. This all takes place in less than

04 seconds.The MicrochipSAFE, PERMANENT & POSITIVE: The microchip is

constructed of non-toxiccomponents hermetically sealed in biocompatible

glass. It is designed withan operating life exceeding 25 years. It is

passive in nature, requiring nobatteries. After implantation a small

layer of connective tissue formsaround the microchip, preventing

migration.TAMPER-PROOF & UNIQUE: Each microchip is uniquely coded by a

computercontrolled process that ensures no duplication. This code cannot

be altered.Over a trillion unique combinations are possible. Because of

the randomprocess, specific numbers or groups of numbers are not

available.USABLE IN ALL SPECIES OF ANIMALS: The microchip is about the

size of apencil lead and is therefore suitable for injection into

virtually allanimals. This includes parakeets and up to the size of a

Killer Whale.Extensive testing, more than ten years, in a wide variety

of animals hasshown no adverse side effects to the health of the animal.

EASY IMPLANTATION: Implantation is no more difficult than a routine

injection when performed by a Veterinarian. It takes less than a minute

including preparation. Once implanted, the microchip requires no further

attention during the animals’ life.UNBIASED: Most forms of

identification require subjective interpretation bythe observer -

coloring, tattoo, marking, etc. The code generated by themicrochip is

read by the scanner and is not subject to interpretation.Consequently,

error is eliminated.HUMANE: The microchip is implanted with a specially

designed, pre-sterilizedneedle, causing no more discomfort than a

routine injection. All implantsare performed in a specific site

location, usually subcutaneously, whichassures virtually no pain. The

physical ability and performance of theanimal is not impeded; there is

no scarring or disfigurement. Most animalsare unaware that they have

received an injection!Animals of any age can be injected with the AVID

microchip. Puppies andkittens can be identified during their initial

vaccine series. Birds, horsesand exotics can be identified at any time.

 

I have other long texts, how this microchips were introduced to the

US army. Many soldiers have their microchips already in their arms.

(by the way, prince charles and his sons also)

 

Here is another text from a christian:

 

"Right now, there is a computer chip the size of a grain of rice.

(1/4 inch long) This computer chip can carry all information on

any individual and is selfcharging. It is charged by the bodies heat, and

after planners spent 1.5 million of your tax dollars, they found out that

the best places to put this chip wouldbe in the right hand or if that is

missing, in the forehead. This chip will be interjected in the hand or

forehead in the same way as a shot. There will be 18 digits, your zip code,

plus the extra four digits after the dash and your social security number,

burned on the chip. These 18 digits will be grouped in three

groups of six numbers. Dr. Sanders, one of the engineers of this chip

(#BT952000--called Emergency Intrusive Identification

Locator) commented, "I believe this to be the "Mark of the Beast".

 

 

Many devotees, believe, that this changes through y2k, natural catastrophies

and other things will help to destroy the present infrastructure of the demons

and will help us to bring a new golden, spiritually advanced age in our

society. I would also like that, but unfortunatly, that is maybe only

the half truth and it may be not as easy as that.

 

There is much evidence about the plans of the demons, how they want

to control humans on the planet, namely through those microchips.

Why was there not any big worldwar in the last 50 years?

Because the demons had to develope a technological infrastructure! Now

the technologybuisness is complite, through satelites, computers and

microchips they now have an technological infrastructure to control the

whole world and each individuum, who survives the coming catastrophies.

 

Y2k may be only another plan to have some artificial crisis to push

on those plans. We have a lot of evidence for that.

 

The following informations are coming from Gary North:

 

"Who Gave Us the Two-Digit Year?

The Pentagon, Says Ex-Programmer

 

Link: http://www.dallasnews.com/technology-nf/techbiz1.htm

Comment:  This article tells of a former Pentagon programmer who says

that in the early 1960's, he saw that y2k would hit, and he warned his

superiors.

They ignored him. Then the Pentagon went on to mandate a two-digit year.

 

. . Harry S. White Jr., a young data elements code specialist at the

Defense Department, argued for using all four numbers. . . . "The light

went on for me in the early 1960s," he said. "I could see many

applications by necessity needed a four-digit year. Personnel, medical

records, retirement. When you do those with two digits, it will cause

considerable problems. . . . was not too popular back then." Two more

numbers. Two extra keystrokes. If the Pentagon had agreed, one of

history's strangest calamities could have been avoided. Instead, at the

Pentagon's urging, the first federal data processing standard for

calendar years called for a two-digit year, leaving millions of

computers

without the ability to comprehend the turn of the

century. . . . The first article alerting computer programmers to the

millennium bug - "Time and the Computer" in the February 1979 issue of

Interface Age - was written by Dallas computer pioneer Bob Bemer. . . .

The Pentagon convened a Conference on Data Systems Languages in the late

 

1950s that produced COBOL, the Common Business Oriented Language.....

 

"The computer industry was exploding like crazy," Mr. Bemer said. "We

said, 'We don't know what we're doing. Let's pause and take a look.' I

was going to use this as a platform to sell the four-digit year." In

1970, President Nixon refused. Mr. Bemer said he never learned why. . .

 

 

So, after a lot of researchwork, we expect following scenario.

 

Beginning of 1999 global economic crash, summer 1999 world war

may start, stopped by huge natural catastrophies (comets etc). One of

three people killed, population about 3-4 billions left (population of the

year 1950) Everything (infrastructure etc. ) collapsed, at least on the

general level, but the demons are the most prepaired, they have put some

satelities and some advanced technologies like huge

computers and other infrastructure aside with the help of demoniac aliens,

they let humans suffer for some more months, maybe 2 years, until people

are becoming so frustrated that they will accept everyone as their world

leader. Maybe in this chaotic times, even the negative aliens will openly

come and offer their "help". This leaders have already those microships

prepaired aso.

 

There is a lot more to say, especially about more positive things, but I

thought,

that I first present you those negative facts, so that you may move from

that naivity, that y2k may be Krsna´s arrangement for a better preaching.

 

Y2k is an arrangement by demons, that is crystalclear.

 

My conclusion is: Lets become serious in our own efforts for spiritual

advancement.

 

y.s.

Stoka Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

>From my admittedly

>limited readings, everyone appears to say there will be *some* effects

>(e.g. social security checks will be delayed for a few weeks),

 

Recently it was announced that the Social Security systems in the US had

been remediated and are now Y2K compatible.

[Guest guest]

>From my admittedly

>limited readings, everyone appears to say there will be *some* effects

>(e.g. social security checks will be delayed for a few weeks),

 

Recently it was announced that the Social Security systems in the US had

been remediated and are now Y2K compatible.

[Guest guest]

>

> Recently it was announced that the Social Security systems in the US had

> been remediated and are now Y2K compatible.

 

That was the first thing they made. Interesting, isn´t it?

 

I hope, you understood the point, which I made in my last large message.

 

y.s.

Stoka Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

>

> Recently it was announced that the Social Security systems in the US had

> been remediated and are now Y2K compatible.

 

That was the first thing they made. Interesting, isn´t it?

 

I hope, you understood the point, which I made in my last large message.

 

y.s.

Stoka Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

> Recently it was announced that the Social Security systems in the US had

> been remediated and are now Y2K compatible.

 

Here in Mexico the bankers association announced that they are fully Y2K

compatible and that they are going into heavy duty testing on February.

They expect to finish by April. The same applies to many other

organizations and government departments.

 

The point here is, what if on January 1, 2000 the world keeps running at

near normal levels and all the doomsday predictions prove to be

nonsensical? Will those within ISKCON (in some cases even gurus) who have

promoted "awareness" of Y2K chaos either personally or by proxy (disciples

and followers) recognize their mistake and misleading attitude?

Particularly in the case of gurus, if they prove to be wrong, will they

recognize their lack of judgement and thus their lack of qualification as

gurus? Or will they just depend on ISKCON's short collective memory to

continue the ride?

 

Lets remember that fear is often directly related to ignorance: ignorance

of the facts, ignorance of reality, or one's inability to deal with it.

Doomsday advocates (either as promoters or as believers) are often people

who wish that everything goes wrong in the world so that they can become

someone. Pitiful but it happens.

 

YS RK Mex

[Guest guest]

> Recently it was announced that the Social Security systems in the US had

> been remediated and are now Y2K compatible.

 

Here in Mexico the bankers association announced that they are fully Y2K

compatible and that they are going into heavy duty testing on February.

They expect to finish by April. The same applies to many other

organizations and government departments.

 

The point here is, what if on January 1, 2000 the world keeps running at

near normal levels and all the doomsday predictions prove to be

nonsensical? Will those within ISKCON (in some cases even gurus) who have

promoted "awareness" of Y2K chaos either personally or by proxy (disciples

and followers) recognize their mistake and misleading attitude?

Particularly in the case of gurus, if they prove to be wrong, will they

recognize their lack of judgement and thus their lack of qualification as

gurus? Or will they just depend on ISKCON's short collective memory to

continue the ride?

 

Lets remember that fear is often directly related to ignorance: ignorance

of the facts, ignorance of reality, or one's inability to deal with it.

Doomsday advocates (either as promoters or as believers) are often people

who wish that everything goes wrong in the world so that they can become

someone. Pitiful but it happens.

 

YS RK Mex

[Guest guest]

> This is already presently done through different films and documentations

> on western TV, to indroduce those aliens to the public in a more or less

> unconcious way.

 

 

>Area 51 is a very famous undergroundbase in america. Here most of the

>secret technology was created. Different people, who work on this bases,

>published some books about the happenings there. They speak about

>different rases of aliens, which are openly working together with

>human scientists.

 

 

"Men in Black"?

 

I like your article, it seems wellargumented and thoughtprovoking, but I´m

no expert and it´s difficult to read such things and differentiate between

facts and fiction. I mean paranoia is such an ugly feeling. (I´ve tried:))

 

We hear a lot of the "bad guys" planning for expansion and takeover. What

are the good guys doing?

(a whole question arises here; who are the good guys? Not only the members

of ISKCON, or?)

 

your servant Trayimaya dasa

[Guest guest]

> This is already presently done through different films and documentations

> on western TV, to indroduce those aliens to the public in a more or less

> unconcious way.

 

 

>Area 51 is a very famous undergroundbase in america. Here most of the

>secret technology was created. Different people, who work on this bases,

>published some books about the happenings there. They speak about

>different rases of aliens, which are openly working together with

>human scientists.

 

 

"Men in Black"?

 

I like your article, it seems wellargumented and thoughtprovoking, but I´m

no expert and it´s difficult to read such things and differentiate between

facts and fiction. I mean paranoia is such an ugly feeling. (I´ve tried:))

 

We hear a lot of the "bad guys" planning for expansion and takeover. What

are the good guys doing?

(a whole question arises here; who are the good guys? Not only the members

of ISKCON, or?)

 

your servant Trayimaya dasa

[Guest guest]

> The point here is, what if on January 1, 2000 the world keeps running at

> near normal levels and all the doomsday predictions prove to be

> nonsensical? Will those within ISKCON (in some cases even gurus) who have

> promoted "awareness" of Y2K chaos either personally or by proxy (disciples

> and followers) recognize their mistake and misleading attitude?

> Particularly in the case of gurus, if they prove to be wrong, will they

> recognize their lack of judgement and thus their lack of qualification as

> gurus? Or will they just depend on ISKCON's short collective memory to

> continue the ride?

 

 

I don't think that anybody who promotes "awareness" of Y2K

chaos should be on any way looked down in the case if nothing

or hardly something happens. "Prepare for the worse, hope for

the best" are the words of Srila Prabhupada, as known to me.

After all, Srila Prabhupada himself gave the predictions of

collapse of the modern civilizations at the year 2000. So what

if he, Srila Prabhupada, proves to be wrong?? Same question

that you apply here for others can be applied on Srila Prabhupada

as well.

 

I think that it is not the question of promoting the "awareness"

of the possible collapse, but rather the question of promoting the

concept of *what* to do and *how* to act as the prevention.

Personally, I appreciate far more those leading persons in ISKCON

who do promote the "awareness" of Y2K problem, than those who do not

bother at al about anything of these. Even in the case nothing

happens, to me those who did worn about problem and possible

consequences stand as persons to respect more and to trust more

to than those who did not bother, or were "predicting" that

it's all going to be fine. It is far better to turn to be proven

to be wrong many times in the case of expecting the chaos and

difficulties, than only once in the case of predicting "Nothing

wrong will happen". There are no accurate and really trustful

predictions in this age anyway, so how can we relay on such

predictions as "It will be all fine"??? So, I am glad and

prepared to hear hundreds of times "Sorry, I was wrong" from

those who predict calamities, than only a single one "Sorry"

from those who predict no calamities.

 

Or to say it on another way: It is not a good dog that doesn't

bark at al, but the one who barks on anything unknown that

approaches the house - even if that unknown turns to be not

dangerous whatsoever. Get rid of such dog that doesn't bark.

 

------------------------

 

The most of prevention calls I've heard from different persons

(that promote the "awereness" of Y2K) was: "Get self-sufficient.

Do not depend so much on this modern civilization. Get your own

food and whatever else is necessary for living. Have the reserves

that may carry on for some time." This is something we should have

done already anyway.

 

I myself got inspired to construct two green houses for the

approaching spring, to grow my own vegetables, and to get the

larger quantities of other food, fire-wood, and everything else

that is necessary for life and that can be stored for at least

one year. If something bad happens I will be indebted for the

rest of my life to those who worned me . If nothing bad happens,

I will be thankful to them for making me inspired do something

that I should have done long ago, for something that I should

keep in practice for all future time. When I look at the stock

of fire-wood, at the sack of grain and pasta, at the growing

tomato plants... and when I look at the paper money on the other

hand, I see and *feel* the great difference. And, after all, it is

actually much cheaper to buy larger quantities of goods at once

than going to the supermarket every second day. So, I guess,

I am one among those who fell victim of the "dangers of being

distracted by Y2K? Glad it is so.

 

 

 

ys mnd

[Guest guest]

> The point here is, what if on January 1, 2000 the world keeps running at

> near normal levels and all the doomsday predictions prove to be

> nonsensical? Will those within ISKCON (in some cases even gurus) who have

> promoted "awareness" of Y2K chaos either personally or by proxy (disciples

> and followers) recognize their mistake and misleading attitude?

> Particularly in the case of gurus, if they prove to be wrong, will they

> recognize their lack of judgement and thus their lack of qualification as

> gurus? Or will they just depend on ISKCON's short collective memory to

> continue the ride?

 

 

I don't think that anybody who promotes "awareness" of Y2K

chaos should be on any way looked down in the case if nothing

or hardly something happens. "Prepare for the worse, hope for

the best" are the words of Srila Prabhupada, as known to me.

After all, Srila Prabhupada himself gave the predictions of

collapse of the modern civilizations at the year 2000. So what

if he, Srila Prabhupada, proves to be wrong?? Same question

that you apply here for others can be applied on Srila Prabhupada

as well.

 

I think that it is not the question of promoting the "awareness"

of the possible collapse, but rather the question of promoting the

concept of *what* to do and *how* to act as the prevention.

Personally, I appreciate far more those leading persons in ISKCON

who do promote the "awareness" of Y2K problem, than those who do not

bother at al about anything of these. Even in the case nothing

happens, to me those who did worn about problem and possible

consequences stand as persons to respect more and to trust more

to than those who did not bother, or were "predicting" that

it's all going to be fine. It is far better to turn to be proven

to be wrong many times in the case of expecting the chaos and

difficulties, than only once in the case of predicting "Nothing

wrong will happen". There are no accurate and really trustful

predictions in this age anyway, so how can we relay on such

predictions as "It will be all fine"??? So, I am glad and

prepared to hear hundreds of times "Sorry, I was wrong" from

those who predict calamities, than only a single one "Sorry"

from those who predict no calamities.

 

Or to say it on another way: It is not a good dog that doesn't

bark at al, but the one who barks on anything unknown that

approaches the house - even if that unknown turns to be not

dangerous whatsoever. Get rid of such dog that doesn't bark.

 

------------------------

 

The most of prevention calls I've heard from different persons

(that promote the "awereness" of Y2K) was: "Get self-sufficient.

Do not depend so much on this modern civilization. Get your own

food and whatever else is necessary for living. Have the reserves

that may carry on for some time." This is something we should have

done already anyway.

 

I myself got inspired to construct two green houses for the

approaching spring, to grow my own vegetables, and to get the

larger quantities of other food, fire-wood, and everything else

that is necessary for life and that can be stored for at least

one year. If something bad happens I will be indebted for the

rest of my life to those who worned me . If nothing bad happens,

I will be thankful to them for making me inspired do something

that I should have done long ago, for something that I should

keep in practice for all future time. When I look at the stock

of fire-wood, at the sack of grain and pasta, at the growing

tomato plants... and when I look at the paper money on the other

hand, I see and *feel* the great difference. And, after all, it is

actually much cheaper to buy larger quantities of goods at once

than going to the supermarket every second day. So, I guess,

I am one among those who fell victim of the "dangers of being

distracted by Y2K? Glad it is so.

 

 

 

ys mnd

[Guest guest]

>

 

 

 

>

>

> Lets remember that fear is often directly related to ignorance: ignorance

> of the facts, ignorance of reality, or one's inability to deal with it.

> Doomsday advocates (either as promoters or as believers) are often people

> who wish that everything goes wrong in the world so that they can become

> someone. Pitiful but it happens.

>

> YS RK Mex

 

Yes, I remember a period where the conspiracy theorists included leading

sannyasis in NV. I would point out to them the logical upshot of what they

were saying was that they should be making arrangements for becoming

independent of the ugrakarmic system of inputs and develop the nucleus of a

system to provide their own necessities, but the usual response was, we'll

deal with it when it happens. Which is an example of an inability to deal

with the logical conclusion of their own premise.

 

VAD is a land based economic system. If it is in process, then automatically

all contingencies are prepared for. If the city devotees are supporting the

rural development, when the rural communities lose the leverage of ugrakarmic

inputs, then that leverage can be replaced by the labor of the devotees who

would be fleeing the dysfunctional cities, and things will go on with some

inconvenience for sure.

 

Y2K, nuclear war, etc, are like leaves. Cow protection based VAD is like

the root. Water the root, everything is cared for.

[Guest guest]

>

 

 

 

>

>

> Lets remember that fear is often directly related to ignorance: ignorance

> of the facts, ignorance of reality, or one's inability to deal with it.

> Doomsday advocates (either as promoters or as believers) are often people

> who wish that everything goes wrong in the world so that they can become

> someone. Pitiful but it happens.

>

> YS RK Mex

 

Yes, I remember a period where the conspiracy theorists included leading

sannyasis in NV. I would point out to them the logical upshot of what they

were saying was that they should be making arrangements for becoming

independent of the ugrakarmic system of inputs and develop the nucleus of a

system to provide their own necessities, but the usual response was, we'll

deal with it when it happens. Which is an example of an inability to deal

with the logical conclusion of their own premise.

 

VAD is a land based economic system. If it is in process, then automatically

all contingencies are prepared for. If the city devotees are supporting the

rural development, when the rural communities lose the leverage of ugrakarmic

inputs, then that leverage can be replaced by the labor of the devotees who

would be fleeing the dysfunctional cities, and things will go on with some

inconvenience for sure.

 

Y2K, nuclear war, etc, are like leaves. Cow protection based VAD is like

the root. Water the root, everything is cared for.

[Guest guest]

> So, I guess,

> I am one among those who fell victim of the "dangers of being

> distracted by Y2K? Glad it is so.

>

> ys mnd

 

I guess it is a matter of definitionof what distracted is. If you are growing

tomatoes, I would say you were inspired by Y2K to do what is good to do

anyway. If you went out and bought a lot of freeze dried nitrogen packed

tomatoes, then I would say you were distracted. Incidentally, while buying

seeds this winter, consider selecting nonhybrid seeds and get a little book on

saving seeds. Also, usually you can buy double the seeds from a catalogue for

only 50% more or whatever, and most seeds with even very little care will keep

into the next season. From an investment point of view , that additional

spent

on seeds

 

As usual, it is a question of balance. It is the difference between being

inspired and being afraid.

 

Incidentally, while buying seeds this winter, consider selecting nonhybrid

seeds and get a little book on saving seeds. Also, usually you can buy double

the seeds from a catalogue for only 50% more or whatever, and most seeds with

even very little care will keep into the next season. From an investment

point

of view , that additional spent on seeds will double in value by spring

2000(assuming you would have again bought a one year supply) even without Y2K

disaster. If Y2K were to manifest, then the value of those seeds would soar.

Normally I order seeds in Jan because it is cold and miserable outdoors, but I

will for the sake of Y2K have all my seeds in house by Christmas 1999, out of

respect for the possibility of Y2K. Now, if someone from a city were to

contract with me to produce stuff for them in year 2000, and would put up some

upfront money, I would have additional ground prepared by fall 99 and have the

seeds in house for the next year. If the fit were to hit the shan, then that

person could come and help me work the garden by hand. If not, then I would

have the produce ready for sale the next spring. Just an example. Obviously,

it wouldn't be practical to be UPSing tomatoes to some distant city, but you

get the idea. It would work for city devotees who lived nearby.

 

If a city person were to take delivery of those veggies, worst case scenario

he

would be paying a premium for organic devotee grown produce instead of paying

less for chemical veggies spewed out by the ugrakarmic factory farms.

[Guest guest]

> So, I guess,

> I am one among those who fell victim of the "dangers of being

> distracted by Y2K? Glad it is so.

>

> ys mnd

 

I guess it is a matter of definitionof what distracted is. If you are growing

tomatoes, I would say you were inspired by Y2K to do what is good to do

anyway. If you went out and bought a lot of freeze dried nitrogen packed

tomatoes, then I would say you were distracted. Incidentally, while buying

seeds this winter, consider selecting nonhybrid seeds and get a little book on

saving seeds. Also, usually you can buy double the seeds from a catalogue for

only 50% more or whatever, and most seeds with even very little care will keep

into the next season. From an investment point of view , that additional

spent

on seeds

 

As usual, it is a question of balance. It is the difference between being

inspired and being afraid.

 

Incidentally, while buying seeds this winter, consider selecting nonhybrid

seeds and get a little book on saving seeds. Also, usually you can buy double

the seeds from a catalogue for only 50% more or whatever, and most seeds with

even very little care will keep into the next season. From an investment

point

of view , that additional spent on seeds will double in value by spring

2000(assuming you would have again bought a one year supply) even without Y2K

disaster. If Y2K were to manifest, then the value of those seeds would soar.

Normally I order seeds in Jan because it is cold and miserable outdoors, but I

will for the sake of Y2K have all my seeds in house by Christmas 1999, out of

respect for the possibility of Y2K. Now, if someone from a city were to

contract with me to produce stuff for them in year 2000, and would put up some

upfront money, I would have additional ground prepared by fall 99 and have the

seeds in house for the next year. If the fit were to hit the shan, then that

person could come and help me work the garden by hand. If not, then I would

have the produce ready for sale the next spring. Just an example. Obviously,

it wouldn't be practical to be UPSing tomatoes to some distant city, but you

get the idea. It would work for city devotees who lived nearby.

 

If a city person were to take delivery of those veggies, worst case scenario

he

would be paying a premium for organic devotee grown produce instead of paying

less for chemical veggies spewed out by the ugrakarmic factory farms.

[Guest guest]

> > Recently it was announced that the Social Security systems in the US had

> > been remediated and are now Y2K compatible.

 

> The point here is, what if on January 1, 2000 the world keeps running at

> near normal levels and all the doomsday predictions prove to be

> nonsensical?

 

Again, you have to research on many different levels and for a long time-

period to actualy understand, what is presently going on in the world today,

what the significance or purpose of y2k is etc. And fact is, that most

devotees, even gurus and ISKCON leaders, have no idea about the

real situation.

 

The point, as I said before in my message, is, that social life, as we know

today, will not be anymore in near future. That does not mean, that all those

 

doomsday predictions are true. In fact, we (those which have good

insider-informations regarding the new world order plans of the asuras)

strongly believe, that this y2k was a long prepaired plan of those asuras

which purpose is a new (asuric) world order, or better, the next step

for that plan. There is a lot of evidence for that, please read

http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page7/fp-07-page7-other-sites.html,

(I hope you have internet-access)

just to give you one example regarding the social security system.

 

It is cristalclear, why the social security system is one of the first y2k

compatible thing they have worked one. Because this system is the key

for a registation of the individuals. Any insider knows, what the

purpose of those developments are.

 

What will be the impact of y2k? Very simple: united big world banks,

(small banks will die), a global economic crisis with the purpose of

establishing an electronical money system (no paper money anymore),

and social breakdowns to establish a new world order. In essence, it

is as simple as that.

 

Of course, you cannot isolate y2k from wars etc., everything is playing

a role for those asuric plans. Y2k is just a puzzle of the whole picture.

 

So this was the main message I wanted to give. Of course, demons

forget the Krsna-factor, and therefore, at the end, the light will win

the battle against the dark. But until this happens, those asuras will

do anything to stop the light. The snake bites, before it dies. That

is my point. So, again, y2k is not the arrangement of Krsna for

better preaching-facilities, in shortterm, it is a plan of those asuras

for there purposes. With this understanding, devotees my get a

better understanding about what is accualy going on, and in this way,

they can act and prepair accordingly.

 

> Lets remember that fear is often directly related to ignorance: ignorance

> of the facts, ignorance of reality, or one's inability to deal with it.

> Doomsday advocates (either as promoters or as believers) are often people

> who wish that everything goes wrong in the world so that they can become

> someone. Pitiful but it happens.

 

Yes, that is true. But that does not mean, that those doomsdays will never

happen.

 

Pessimism is the mode of ignorance, optimism is the mode of passion,

realism is the mode of goodness.

 

y.s.

Stoka Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

> > Recently it was announced that the Social Security systems in the US had

> > been remediated and are now Y2K compatible.

 

> The point here is, what if on January 1, 2000 the world keeps running at

> near normal levels and all the doomsday predictions prove to be

> nonsensical?

 

Again, you have to research on many different levels and for a long time-

period to actualy understand, what is presently going on in the world today,

what the significance or purpose of y2k is etc. And fact is, that most

devotees, even gurus and ISKCON leaders, have no idea about the

real situation.

 

The point, as I said before in my message, is, that social life, as we know

today, will not be anymore in near future. That does not mean, that all those

 

doomsday predictions are true. In fact, we (those which have good

insider-informations regarding the new world order plans of the asuras)

strongly believe, that this y2k was a long prepaired plan of those asuras

which purpose is a new (asuric) world order, or better, the next step

for that plan. There is a lot of evidence for that, please read

http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page7/fp-07-page7-other-sites.html,

(I hope you have internet-access)

just to give you one example regarding the social security system.

 

It is cristalclear, why the social security system is one of the first y2k

compatible thing they have worked one. Because this system is the key

for a registation of the individuals. Any insider knows, what the

purpose of those developments are.

 

What will be the impact of y2k? Very simple: united big world banks,

(small banks will die), a global economic crisis with the purpose of

establishing an electronical money system (no paper money anymore),

and social breakdowns to establish a new world order. In essence, it

is as simple as that.

 

Of course, you cannot isolate y2k from wars etc., everything is playing

a role for those asuric plans. Y2k is just a puzzle of the whole picture.

 

So this was the main message I wanted to give. Of course, demons

forget the Krsna-factor, and therefore, at the end, the light will win

the battle against the dark. But until this happens, those asuras will

do anything to stop the light. The snake bites, before it dies. That

is my point. So, again, y2k is not the arrangement of Krsna for

better preaching-facilities, in shortterm, it is a plan of those asuras

for there purposes. With this understanding, devotees my get a

better understanding about what is accualy going on, and in this way,

they can act and prepair accordingly.

 

> Lets remember that fear is often directly related to ignorance: ignorance

> of the facts, ignorance of reality, or one's inability to deal with it.

> Doomsday advocates (either as promoters or as believers) are often people

> who wish that everything goes wrong in the world so that they can become

> someone. Pitiful but it happens.

 

Yes, that is true. But that does not mean, that those doomsdays will never

happen.

 

Pessimism is the mode of ignorance, optimism is the mode of passion,

realism is the mode of goodness.

 

y.s.

Stoka Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

In text 1993996 Mahanidhi dasa wrote:

 

> I don't think that anybody who promotes "awareness" of Y2K

> chaos should be on any way looked down in the case if nothing

> or hardly something happens. "Prepare for the worse, hope for

> the best" are the words of Srila Prabhupada, as known to me.

> After all, Srila Prabhupada himself gave the predictions of

> collapse of the modern civilizations at the year 2000. So what

> if he, Srila Prabhupada, proves to be wrong?? Same question

> that you apply here for others can be applied on Srila Prabhupada

> as well.

 

I agree that promoting straighforward awareness is always welcomed. I was

mainly refering to instances (that I have aleady noticed within ISKCON) in

which someone starts using the Y2K subject to play on the fears of people

and even to make decisions that involve the lives of devotees in ways that

look irresponsible. We have already seen this in the past. Harikesa P.

would announce in Mayapura that in 1979 the nuclear war between the supe

rpowers would start. Then in 1979 he moved it up to 1981; then in 1981 he

moved it up again to 1983. He then gave everyone some breathing space and

declared that it would start in 1987. At that point I lost track. Of

course, the Berlin Wall fell in 1989 and many decisions made with such

fears proved nonsensical. Just add up the millions lost by ISKCON in

useless farms during the 1980's, the energy wasted in them, and the

credibility lost among the devotee population for such decisions. Here in

Mexico alone a farm was purchased in 1982 for $300,000.00US cash (plus the

expenses of maintaining it for years) and then it was sold for one-fourth

of the original price in 1989. The current GBC here has been presenting in

the last few months the idea of a new farm, using the fears of the coming

chaos in civilization as a justification. Unfortunately the reasons that

caused the previous farm failure still prevail and warrant a new failure if

the project goes ahead. And I don't think that this is the only case in

ISKCON. That was the reason of my question.

 

Part of the paranoia found within ISKCON comes from the fact that karmis

present worst case scenarios but try to make sure that the best happens,

not only hope for it. But devotees sometimes don't understand this and

focus only on the worst case scenarios and try to make a cottage preaching

industry out of it. Some may not find anything wrong with it. But in fact

doomsday preaching in general ends being counterproductive. Jim Jones

preached the end of the world and look at what happened to him and his

followers. A Korean Christian church preached that the world would end a

couple of years ago, but when this didn't happen the faithful sued the

priest for misleading them. Christian fundamentalists during the 1970's

preached that the European Union was the 10 headed beast of Revelation (a

sign of the impending Judgement Day) but when an 11th member was added to

the Union their decades long "evidence" evaporated along with their

credibility.

 

Is the same happening in ISKCON? My new Vedabase arrived broken so I don't

have an exact quote that I wanted to share with you, but once the devotees

were telling Srila Prabhupada about the fears of economists (?) due to

ISKCON's social and economical proposals. Srila Prabhupada replied that

they should not worry because their material civilization will go on

forever. To me that makes a lot of sense; this is the material world after

all. Latter-Day attitudes is not what vaisnavas should be into. I have

personaly heard a couple of gurus just talk about the Y2K issue, along with

voodoo, ghosts, cristal healing, etc., which honestly makes them look

clownish. Instead they should concentrate in representing Srila Prabhupada,

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and the whole parampara in a more dignified way.

 

YS RK Mex