Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Respected Sanjay Ji, Pranaam. Apologies for replying late. I was travelling and could not access the Internet. I am deeply grateful for your reply. I am going to take a print out and study it and hope to understand the principles. Regards. Anurag. vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...> wrote: > > > Jaya Jagannatha > Dear Anurag > Illusion is not something that is just centric to the individual. It is an > image and will be seen differently b different people based on their own > perception of the image. The way you look at Bill Clinton shall be different > than the way I see him or the way Hillary Clinton sees him, so it is centric > from various view points. Yet it is an image and this image is a more than > life figure as the President of the USA. This image is the arudha and he > rode this image for some time and then the nature of the arudha changed, yet > the hangover of the arudha continues. It is more like a flavor that is based > on retained memory. Now we all know (retained memory) that he was the > president. He also knows this. What happens to one like President Reagan who > loses the memory that he was President. What effect does this have on the > arudha? Does it cause the arudha to change from (1) his perspective and (2) > from the worlds perspective. So you see the arudha is important and the paka > lagna is also very important. If the lagnesa does not like the arudha for > some reason in the change in dasa due to anifestation of disease or an > accident etc, then the memory of the arudha maybe wiped out. Here the AK > comes into the picture and you will find the AK laying a role to do this > job...or sometimes the GURU the Bhratrkaraka as the Guru has the power to > memory. See Reagans chart. > > In Reagans chart the AK Mercury is in lagna (intelligence) with Mars and > aspected by Rahu...is this not a curse coming on the Mercury? Note that > there are two charakaraka replacements involving (1) PiK and PK and (2) BK > and MK. It was in the dasa of the AK which is also badhakesh and in the > curse that the disease got really bad, especially after 1994 onwards. I > think he finally died in Merc dasa Mars antardasa...planets in lagna. > > Point again is did the arudha change? From his viewpoint [lagna/lagnesh] it > did as he forget he was President, and even forgot the name of his wife > etc...it must be very painful for the near and dear ones. But for the world > [Moon] the arudha never changed. > > Now try to do the chart of someone like Saint Joan who was burnt as a witch > and then canonised as a saint. The arudha changed after death! How do we see > this??? Interesting. > > With best wishes and warm regards, > Sanjay Rath > * * * > Sri Jagannath CenterR > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India > http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 > * * * > > > > > >anuraagsharma27 [anuraagsharma27@h...] > >Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:14 AM > >vedic astrology > >[vedic astrology] Re: atmakaraka in Al > > > >Respected Sanjay Ji, > > > >Pranaam. > > > >Firstly, thank you for the illuminating post about the > >linkages between the Arudha Lagna and the Atmakaraka. > > > >I have some questions. It is stated that the Arudha Lagna is > >our illusory belief system. It has been consistently seen in > >the writings here that all Arudha Padas shows the illusions of > >the 'world' about the various facets of the native's life as > >seen from the various Bhavas and then manifested as visible > >indications by the Bhava Padas themselves. It has been taught > >basically that the metaphysical truth about the Jatak is seen > >from the Lagna, and what the world perceives of the native is > >seen from the Arudha Lagna. > > > >Is the illusion of Maya that subsists in the Arudha Lagna > >native- centric? Does it arise of the beliefs of the native > >himself, whether through retention or rejection of memory or > >is it that these factors apply to the world at large when they > >contemplate the native in their own minds? > > > >It has also been stated in the past that the illusions of the > >native are seen from the Graha Arudhas. > > > >I suspect there is probably some serious flaw in my > >understanding or something is amiss. I tend to think that > >there may not be water- tight distinctions between the various > >reference points but it would be illuminating if you could > >shed some more light on this. > > > >Could it also be that when AK and AL are conjoined, what > >happens is that the influences that were coming from the > >society in the form of opinions and ideas of that society > >pertaining to the native (AL?), are seen for what they > >actually are (AK influnece) and the hold of Maya is weakened > >as the Satya (AK) exposes the empty shell of the Arudha? The > >timing could be done from the Vimshottari of the AK and the > >replacement studied as you have instructed in your post. > > > >It is clear from the post as to the effects of the AK and > >linkages with Shani and the effects that could accrue. You > >have taught that the 7th from AL is the opposition to the > >image just as the Grahas in the 7th from UL tend to show > >opposing forces from the family of the spouse. In one's own > >chart (11th June,1972;10:17 AM; Cuttack, > >Orissa) the Lagnesh is also the AK placed with Shani and an > >Amavasya Tithi Chandra in the 10th House, 7th from the AL, and > >the Surya-Chandra- Shani Yuti is also aspected by the Nodes! > >The interactions of the image have been such that the > >tremendous rush and fall of the AL caused by Rashi Drishti of > >the nodes has been deciphered for being what it is: a big show > >of transience that changes in such a fickle manner. > > > >Since the AK is with Shani in A7, just as you have instructed > >in the post, the realities relating to interaction have also > >been suspected, piercing the veil of the Darapada. I am > >hopeful that to this extent I have understood what has been taught. > > > >It would be kind of you to clear the doubts as to > >indoctrination and the AL. > > > >I am aware that this message may have many errors and only > >seeks to lay down some of my thoughts on the matter. > > > >Regards. > > > >Anurag Sharma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...> > >wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> Jaya Jagannatha > >> Dear Bharat > >> > >> You have made some very fine points about the nature of the arudha > >lagna and > >> atmakaraka. > >> > >> Arudha lagna is the illusionary belief system based on our > >indoctrination > >> and what we consider as good and bad, what we consider as right > >and wrong. > >> It is always black and white, the good guys and bad guys are based > >on this > >> indoctrination by society (Moon) and mental experiences (Moon- > >manas) which > >> is based on memory which agai is a function of selective retention > >(Jupiter) > >> and selective erosion (Saturn) based on how pleasant they were. > >This emotion > >> of pleasant memory and otherwise is subjective to the individual > >and will > >> vary based on the rasi where the arudha lagna is. The arudha lagna > >is this > >> illusion that is created by the intelligence (lagna and paka > >lagna). > >> > >> Now come to the possibility where the arudha lagna and atmakaraka > >are in the > >> same sign. To be in the same sign it becomes imperative that the > >lagnesa and > >> at atmakaraka are different planets. The indoctrination of the > >society of > >> influence is indicated by the arudha lagna. Moon is the > >significator for > >> this showing the primary indoctrination coming from the society > >connected > >> with home - mother, mother tongue, family, childhood days etc. > >Jupiter is a > >> great benefic for the fame and shows the indictrination coming > >from the > >> learning that the society offers. > >> > >> Now Atmakaraka is like a Jyotirlinga. It holds tremendous > >knowlege - the > >> knowledge of the paramesthi guru - the knowlegde of Shiva. This > >knowledge > >> when coming into contact with any arudha or any graha pada throws > >up the > >> *untruth* associated with the indoctrination. After all Shiva is - > >satyam > >> shivam sundaram. > >> > >> That is why when the arudha lagna and the atmakaraka come > >together, the > >> person starts to question the indoctrination of society. He > >challenges the > >> teachings of the society and may reject many such teachings. Let > >us examine > >> some of these cases (since you take the trouble of giving the > >example, its > >> my pleasure to continue the thread). > >> > >> 1. Mahatma Gandhi has atmakaraka Jupiter, so his arudha lagna and > >AL are not > >> the same. I use the time of 7.30 am LMT for his chart as is > >reported widely. > >> The change came for him due to the *atmakaraka replacement* caused > >by the > >> Moon and Jupiter being in the same degree. So at about 24 -32 > >years of age > >> he will change very drastically. When this change will occur, the > >arudha > >> lagna and *new atmakaraka* will become one in Cancer and he > >questioned the > >> political system of the day as he has Rahu influencing the > >atmakaraka Moon. > >> He questioned the untruth in it and started to show the path to > >*RAMA RAJYA* > >> through satyagraha. Remember New AK Moon is with Rahu. > >> > >> 2. Jiddu Krishnamuti has the Sun atmakaraka in arudha lagna in > >Aries. This > >> is the most royal sign and the Sun relates to father. There is a > >dictum > >> which states that the Sun in the 1st or 7th house in Aries/Libra - > >native is > >> abandoned by parents. This is true both for Bhagavan Sri Rama and > >Jiddu > >> Krishnamurti who had Sun in AL in Aries and Saturn in 7th house. > >> Krishnamurti lost his mother in 1905 and was finally adopted by > >Helena > >> Blavatsky in 1910. Then there was a legal dispute over parental > >custody > >> between Blavatsky and Jiddu Narasimah (Krishnamurti's biological > >father). It > >> finally ended when Krishnamurti finall appeared at the Privy > >council and > >> chose Blavatsky instead of his father. [at this stage the arudha > >lagna > >> dominated over the atmakaraka as Krishnamurti was only 18 years > >old]. > >> However, the atmakaraka started rising after his 28 years of age > >as it is in > >> Aries - this was triggered by two events (1) death of father [sun] > >in 1924 > >> and (2) death of brother [Mars] in 1925. Look at the Sun in Aries > >as AK. > >> Then in 1929 on the opening day of the annual Star Camp at Ommen, > >Holland, > >> Krishnamurti dissolved the Order before 3000 members. This was the > >complete > >> and total rejection of the arudha. He questioned the fundamental > >basis of > >> the guru-shisya parampara and said that the spiritual path was a > >path to > >> freedom while the guru-shisya parampara of spiritual lineages in > >India were > >> a kind of bondage. Remember AK Sun in AL is aspected by Saturn. > >> > >> 3. Dr. B.V.Raman has the atmakaraka Moon with Saturn in the arudha > >lagna and > >> just like the other two cases, he questioned the basic theory that > >jyotisa > >> should not be taught to foreigners as (1) Jyotisa was a vedanga > >and (2) it > >> should not be taught in foreign languages. He was the first one to > >break > >> free from this in a large scale teaching of jyotisa through the > >Astrological > >> Magazine. To do this he needed to have another yoga as mentioned > >in Deva > >> Keralam: The association of the lords of the 6th and 8th houses in > >a yoga > >> with either the 5th lord or the 5th house. Such a person will > >teach the > >> vedas and vedanga to foreigners in a foreign land and in a foreign > >language. > >> In Dr Raman's chart we find that the fifth lord Mercury is also > >the 8th lord > >> and is in kendra to Moon (sarada yoga) and with the dharma- > >karmadhipati yoga > >> (highest yoga necessary to teach veda/vedanga). > >> > >> The point I am trying to make is that when you say (1) questionig > >process, > >> there must be a suitable combination showing the questioning > >process and > >> unless we have a saturn or Rahu involved what will trigger the > >questioning? > >> Saturn indicates sorrow and suffering that triggers questioning > >while causes > >> shocks to start the questioning. (2) Many factors that you state > >should be > >> defined and in general is it necessary to achieve by teaching this > >knowledge > >> to others? There are millions who have had similar lessons but did > >not > >> bother to go out and teach it to others like the three we > >discussed above > >> did. In each of their cases there were yogas outside the > >cmbination of AK > >> and AL to support the activity that is required after the > >questioning > >> process. (3) You have correctly pointed out that a harsh situation > >> accelerates the questioning and change - this is perfectly right > >but then it > >> must translate into *jyotisa language* which I have done by adding > >the > >> terrible taste of the malefic planets. > >> > >> Finally Bharat, thanks for this. It made me see my own chart and > >wonder why > >> I have done what I did so far and whether I should continue doing > >it. [Aug > >> 7, 1963; 9.15 Pm Sambalpur, India] How many more harsh lessons > >will Saturn > >> give. > >> > >> One more point - the final decision shall also depend on factors > >outside the > >> AK, AL story. Lets try these - Why did Krishnamurti reject the > >Guru-shisya > >> parampara of ancient India? Did the makara lagna have a say? Why > >did Gandhi > >> take to Satyagraha on the one hand and dilly dally with satyagraha > >in sexual > >> control? Did the Libra lagna with Mars and Venus have a say? > >> > >> With best wishes and warm regards, > >> Sanjay Rath > >> * * * > >> Sri Jagannath CenterR > >> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > >> New Delhi 110060, India > >> <http://srath.com> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 > >> * * * > >> > >> > >> > > >> >bharateiya [ <bharateiya> > >> bharateiya] > >> >Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:20 AM > >> >vedic astrology > >> >[vedic astrology] Re: atmakaraka in Al > >> > > >> >Namaskaar Again Sri Sanjay > >> > > >> >Greal souls who have Atmakaraka in Arudha Lagna are: > >> >1. Mahatma Gandhi > >> >2. Sri J. Krishnamurthi > >> >3. Sri Bangalore Venkata Raman > >> > > >> >There are others whose Atmakaraka aspects the Arudha Lagna: > >> >1. Sri Raman Maharishi - 7th from AL Moon AK 2. Sri Sathya > >Sai Bada - > >> >5th from AL Guru AK 3. Sri Gautam Buddha - 7th from AL Buddha AK 4. > >> >Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu - 7th from AL Saturn AK > >> > > >> >I have no references from classical text to show how this > >occurs. My > >> >logic is: > >> >Arudha Lagna signifies the illusion which is born out of > >the seizing > >> >effect of Grahas. Seizing is to close one'e eyes to the > >whole picture > >> >(Truth) and thereby cause ignorance. The mind then > >misinterprets the > >> >whole picture by way of Arudha. > >> > > >> >Atmakaraka is the force that desires freedom. It propels us towards > >> >it. > >> > > >> >Atmakaraka in AL signify two opposite forces and therefore a > >conflict. > >> >Atmakaraka if strong and in its period, will cause a rift in the > >mind. > >> >It will start the questioning process. The questioning > >process shall > >> >succeed or not is dependent upon many factors. However, the march > >> >towards emotional maturity and understanding the limitedness of > >> >illusionary joys begins. > >> > > >> >If a harsh situation occurs for the native, then this > >process can be > >> >faster. > >> > > >> >This is a topic to be researched and I request others to post their > >> >views and if they have sastras know how, then, to share it. > >> > > >> >Thanks and Regards > >> >Bharat > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" > >> ><guruji@s...> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Jaya Jagannatha > >> >> Dear Bharat > >> >> Can you cite some examples of great souls who have the > >atmakaraka in > >> >arudha > >> >> lagna and have shown the path to immortality or moksha or some > >such > >> >great > >> >> activity? I shall be most grateful. > >> >> With best wishes and warm regards, > >> >> Sanjay Rath > >> >> * * * > >> >> Sri Jagannath CenterR > >> >> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > >> >> New Delhi 110060, India > >> >> <http://srath.com> http://srath.com < <http://srath.com/> > >> http://srath.com/> , +91-11-25717162 > >> >> * * * > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> bharateiya <bharateiya> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Namaskaar Shree Aruna > >> >> > >> >> Atmakaraka is a propelling graha towards knowledge of oneself. > >In > >> >> Arudha lagna it disspells the ignorance and the illusion. The > >result > >> >> is in whenever the associated period starts...the person > >> >will have to > >> >> come face with a difficult circumstance and way out will show > >the > >> >> person a great secret about life. > >> >> > >> >> The person will realize two sides of a coin is actually the > >> >same coin. > >> >> Such a person will be a great mediator and a diplomat. The > >native is > >> >> keen on Self Analysis and can recognize slowly and steadily > >> >the effect > >> >> of Maya within. > >> >> > >> >> Such a person can a good teacher and can guide others towards > >their > >> >> learning and solving life's matters. > >> >> > >> >> I would love to hear other's comments on this very interesting > >topic. > >> >> > >> >> Thanks and Regards > >> >> Bharat > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> vedic astrology, "a_srimantula" > >> >> <a_srimantula> wrote: > >> >> > Respected Gurus, > >> >> > > >> >> > In general what are the results of atmakaraka in Arudhalagna? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Thanking you all > >> >> > Aruna Srimantula > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Archives: <vedic astrology> > >> vedic astrology > >> >> > >> >> Group info: <vedic- > >astrology/info.html> > >> vedic astrology/info.html > >> >> > >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > >> >> > >> >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _____ > >> >> > >> >> Free antispam, antivirus and 1GB to save all your messages Only > >in > >> >> Mail: <http://in.mail.> > >http://in.mail. > >> >> > >> >> Archives: <vedic astrology> > >> vedic astrology > >> >> > >> >> Group info: <vedic- > >astrology/info.html> > >> vedic astrology/info.html > >> >> > >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > >> >> > >> >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _____ > >> >> > >> >> Links > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> * > >> >> <vedic astrology/> > >> vedic astrology/ > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> * > >> >> vedic astrology > >> >> > >> ><vedic astrology?subject=Uns > >> >ubscribe> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> * > >> >Terms of Service > >> >> < <> > >> > >> . > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >------------------------ Sponsor > >> >--------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? > >> >It is easier than you think. > >> >Click Here to meet a Child you can help. > >> > <http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM> > >> http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM > >> >------------------------------ > >> >-----~-> > >> > > >> >Archives: <vedic astrology> > >> vedic astrology > >> > > >> >Group info: <vedic- > >astrology/info.html> > >> vedic astrology/info.html > >> > > >> >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > >> > > >> >....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > >> > > >> > > >> > Links > >> > > >> vedic astrology/ > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------ Sponsor > >--------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? > >It is easier than you think. > >Click Here to meet a Child you can help. > >http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM > >------------------------------ > >-----~-> > > > > > > > > > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > >....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Hello, Why not? It would be nice to have your learned views on the subject. Thank you. Anurag. vedic astrology, "bharateiya" <bharateiya> wrote: > Namaskaar Sri Anuraag, > > Your post and question is addressed to Sri Sanjay. Would you allow me > to say something to this effect? > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > vedic astrology, "anuraagsharma27" > <anuraagsharma27@h...> wrote: > > Respected Sanjay Ji, > > > > Pranaam. > > > > Firstly, thank you for the illuminating post about the linkages > > between the Arudha Lagna and the Atmakaraka. > > > > I have some questions. It is stated that the Arudha Lagna is our > > illusory belief system. It has been consistently seen in the > > writings here that all Arudha Padas shows the illusions of > > the 'world' about the various facets of the native's life as seen > > from the various Bhavas and then manifested as visible indications > > by the Bhava Padas themselves. It has been taught basically that the > > metaphysical truth about the Jatak is seen from the Lagna, and what > > the world perceives of the native is seen from the Arudha Lagna. > > > > Is the illusion of Maya that subsists in the Arudha Lagna native- > > centric? Does it arise of the beliefs of the native himself, whether > > through retention or rejection of memory or is it that these factors > > apply to the world at large when they contemplate the native in > > their own minds? > > > > It has also been stated in the past that the illusions of the native > > are seen from the Graha Arudhas. > > > > I suspect there is probably some serious flaw in my understanding or > > something is amiss. I tend to think that there may not be water- > > tight distinctions between the various reference points but it would > > be illuminating if you could shed some more light on this. > > > > Could it also be that when AK and AL are conjoined, what happens is > > that the influences that were coming from the society in the form of > > opinions and ideas of that society pertaining to the native (AL?), > > are seen for what they actually are (AK influnece) and the hold of > > Maya is weakened as the Satya (AK) exposes the empty shell of the > > Arudha? The timing could be done from the Vimshottari of the AK and > > the replacement studied as you have instructed in your post. > > > > It is clear from the post as to the effects of the AK and linkages > > with Shani and the effects that could accrue. You have taught that > > the 7th from AL is the opposition to the image just as the Grahas in > > the 7th from UL tend to show opposing forces from the family of the > > spouse. In one's own chart (11th June,1972;10:17 AM; Cuttack, > > Orissa) the Lagnesh is also the AK placed with Shani and an Amavasya > > Tithi > > Chandra in the 10th House, 7th from the AL, and the Surya- Chandra- > > Shani Yuti is also aspected by the Nodes! The interactions of the > > image have been such that the tremendous rush and fall of the AL > > caused by Rashi Drishti of the nodes has been deciphered for being > > what it is: a big show of transience that changes in such a fickle > > manner. > > > > Since the AK is with Shani in A7, just as you have instructed in the > > post, the realities relating to interaction have also been > > suspected, piercing the veil of the Darapada. I am hopeful that to > > this extent I have understood what has been taught. > > > > It would be kind of you to clear the doubts as to indoctrination and > > the AL. > > > > I am aware that this message may have many errors and only seeks to > > lay down some of my thoughts on the matter. > > > > Regards. > > > > Anurag Sharma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Jaya Jagannatha > > > Dear Bharat > > > > > > You have made some very fine points about the nature of the arudha > > lagna and > > > atmakaraka. > > > > > > Arudha lagna is the illusionary belief system based on our > > indoctrination > > > and what we consider as good and bad, what we consider as right > > and wrong. > > > It is always black and white, the good guys and bad guys are based > > on this > > > indoctrination by society (Moon) and mental experiences (Moon- > > manas) which > > > is based on memory which agai is a function of selective retention > > (Jupiter) > > > and selective erosion (Saturn) based on how pleasant they were. > > This emotion > > > of pleasant memory and otherwise is subjective to the individual > > and will > > > vary based on the rasi where the arudha lagna is. The arudha lagna > > is this > > > illusion that is created by the intelligence (lagna and paka > > lagna). > > > > > > Now come to the possibility where the arudha lagna and atmakaraka > > are in the > > > same sign. To be in the same sign it becomes imperative that the > > lagnesa and > > > at atmakaraka are different planets. The indoctrination of the > > society of > > > influence is indicated by the arudha lagna. Moon is the > > significator for > > > this showing the primary indoctrination coming from the society > > connected > > > with home - mother, mother tongue, family, childhood days etc. > > Jupiter is a > > > great benefic for the fame and shows the indictrination coming > > from the > > > learning that the society offers. > > > > > > Now Atmakaraka is like a Jyotirlinga. It holds tremendous > > knowlege - the > > > knowledge of the paramesthi guru - the knowlegde of Shiva. This > > knowledge > > > when coming into contact with any arudha or any graha pada throws > > up the > > > *untruth* associated with the indoctrination. After all Shiva is - > > satyam > > > shivam sundaram. > > > > > > That is why when the arudha lagna and the atmakaraka come > > together, the > > > person starts to question the indoctrination of society. He > > challenges the > > > teachings of the society and may reject many such teachings. Let > > us examine > > > some of these cases (since you take the trouble of giving the > > example, its > > > my pleasure to continue the thread). > > > > > > 1. Mahatma Gandhi has atmakaraka Jupiter, so his arudha lagna and > > AL are not > > > the same. I use the time of 7.30 am LMT for his chart as is > > reported widely. > > > The change came for him due to the *atmakaraka replacement* caused > > by the > > > Moon and Jupiter being in the same degree. So at about 24 -32 > > years of age > > > he will change very drastically. When this change will occur, the > > arudha > > > lagna and *new atmakaraka* will become one in Cancer and he > > questioned the > > > political system of the day as he has Rahu influencing the > > atmakaraka Moon. > > > He questioned the untruth in it and started to show the path to > > *RAMA RAJYA* > > > through satyagraha. Remember New AK Moon is with Rahu. > > > > > > 2. Jiddu Krishnamuti has the Sun atmakaraka in arudha lagna in > > Aries. This > > > is the most royal sign and the Sun relates to father. There is a > > dictum > > > which states that the Sun in the 1st or 7th house in Aries/Libra - > > native is > > > abandoned by parents. This is true both for Bhagavan Sri Rama and > > Jiddu > > > Krishnamurti who had Sun in AL in Aries and Saturn in 7th house. > > > Krishnamurti lost his mother in 1905 and was finally adopted by > > Helena > > > Blavatsky in 1910. Then there was a legal dispute over parental > > custody > > > between Blavatsky and Jiddu Narasimah (Krishnamurti's biological > > father). It > > > finally ended when Krishnamurti finall appeared at the Privy > > council and > > > chose Blavatsky instead of his father. [at this stage the arudha > > lagna > > > dominated over the atmakaraka as Krishnamurti was only 18 years > > old]. > > > However, the atmakaraka started rising after his 28 years of age > > as it is in > > > Aries - this was triggered by two events (1) death of father [sun] > > in 1924 > > > and (2) death of brother [Mars] in 1925. Look at the Sun in Aries > > as AK. > > > Then in 1929 on the opening day of the annual Star Camp at Ommen, > > Holland, > > > Krishnamurti dissolved the Order before 3000 members. This was the > > complete > > > and total rejection of the arudha. He questioned the fundamental > > basis of > > > the guru-shisya parampara and said that the spiritual path was a > > path to > > > freedom while the guru-shisya parampara of spiritual lineages in > > India were > > > a kind of bondage. Remember AK Sun in AL is aspected by Saturn. > > > > > > 3. Dr. B.V.Raman has the atmakaraka Moon with Saturn in the arudha > > lagna and > > > just like the other two cases, he questioned the basic theory that > > jyotisa > > > should not be taught to foreigners as (1) Jyotisa was a vedanga > > and (2) it > > > should not be taught in foreign languages. He was the first one to > > break > > > free from this in a large scale teaching of jyotisa through the > > Astrological > > > Magazine. To do this he needed to have another yoga as mentioned > > in Deva > > > Keralam: The association of the lords of the 6th and 8th houses in > > a yoga > > > with either the 5th lord or the 5th house. Such a person will > > teach the > > > vedas and vedanga to foreigners in a foreign land and in a foreign > > language. > > > In Dr Raman's chart we find that the fifth lord Mercury is also > > the 8th lord > > > and is in kendra to Moon (sarada yoga) and with the dharma- > > karmadhipati yoga > > > (highest yoga necessary to teach veda/vedanga). > > > > > > The point I am trying to make is that when you say (1) questionig > > process, > > > there must be a suitable combination showing the questioning > > process and > > > unless we have a saturn or Rahu involved what will trigger the > > questioning? > > > Saturn indicates sorrow and suffering that triggers questioning > > while causes > > > shocks to start the questioning. (2) Many factors that you state > > should be > > > defined and in general is it necessary to achieve by teaching this > > knowledge > > > to others? There are millions who have had similar lessons but did > > not > > > bother to go out and teach it to others like the three we > > discussed above > > > did. In each of their cases there were yogas outside the > > cmbination of AK > > > and AL to support the activity that is required after the > > questioning > > > process. (3) You have correctly pointed out that a harsh situation > > > accelerates the questioning and change - this is perfectly right > > but then it > > > must translate into *jyotisa language* which I have done by adding > > the > > > terrible taste of the malefic planets. > > > > > > Finally Bharat, thanks for this. It made me see my own chart and > > wonder why > > > I have done what I did so far and whether I should continue doing > > it. [Aug > > > 7, 1963; 9.15 Pm Sambalpur, India] How many more harsh lessons > > will Saturn > > > give. > > > > > > One more point - the final decision shall also depend on factors > > outside the > > > AK, AL story. Lets try these - Why did Krishnamurti reject the > > Guru-shisya > > > parampara of ancient India? Did the makara lagna have a say? Why > > did Gandhi > > > take to Satyagraha on the one hand and dilly dally with satyagraha > > in sexual > > > control? Did the Libra lagna with Mars and Venus have a say? > > > > > > With best wishes and warm regards, > > > Sanjay Rath > > > * * * > > > Sri Jagannath CenterR > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > > > New Delhi 110060, India > > > <http://srath.com> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > >bharateiya [ <bharateiya> > > > bharateiya] > > > >Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:20 AM > > > >vedic astrology > > > >[vedic astrology] Re: atmakaraka in Al > > > > > > > >Namaskaar Again Sri Sanjay > > > > > > > >Greal souls who have Atmakaraka in Arudha Lagna are: > > > >1. Mahatma Gandhi > > > >2. Sri J. Krishnamurthi > > > >3. Sri Bangalore Venkata Raman > > > > > > > >There are others whose Atmakaraka aspects the Arudha Lagna: > > > >1. Sri Raman Maharishi - 7th from AL Moon AK 2. Sri Sathya Sai > > > >Bada - 5th from AL Guru AK 3. Sri Gautam Buddha - 7th from AL > > > >Buddha AK 4. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu - 7th from AL Saturn AK > > > > > > > >I have no references from classical text to show how this > > > >occurs. My logic is: > > > >Arudha Lagna signifies the illusion which is born out of the > > > >seizing effect of Grahas. Seizing is to close one'e eyes to > > > >the whole picture > > > >(Truth) and thereby cause ignorance. The mind then > > > >misinterprets the whole picture by way of Arudha. > > > > > > > >Atmakaraka is the force that desires freedom. It propels us > > > >towards it. > > > > > > > >Atmakaraka in AL signify two opposite forces and therefore a > > conflict. > > > >Atmakaraka if strong and in its period, will cause a rift in the > > mind. > > > >It will start the questioning process. The questioning process > > > >shall succeed or not is dependent upon many factors. However, > > > >the march towards emotional maturity and understanding the > > > >limitedness of illusionary joys begins. > > > > > > > >If a harsh situation occurs for the native, then this process > > > >can be faster. > > > > > > > >This is a topic to be researched and I request others to post > > > >their views and if they have sastras know how, then, to share it. > > > > > > > >Thanks and Regards > > > >Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" > > > ><guruji@s...> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Jaya Jagannatha > > > >> Dear Bharat > > > >> Can you cite some examples of great souls who have the > > atmakaraka in > > > >arudha > > > >> lagna and have shown the path to immortality or moksha or some > > such > > > >great > > > >> activity? I shall be most grateful. > > > >> With best wishes and warm regards, > > > >> Sanjay Rath > > > >> * * * > > > >> Sri Jagannath CenterR > > > >> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > > > >> New Delhi 110060, India > > > >> <http://srath.com> http://srath.com < <http://srath.com/> > > > http://srath.com/> , +91-11-25717162 > > > >> * * * > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> bharateiya <bharateiya> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Namaskaar Shree Aruna > > > >> > > > >> Atmakaraka is a propelling graha towards knowledge of oneself. > > In > > > >> Arudha lagna it disspells the ignorance and the illusion. The > > result > > > >> is in whenever the associated period starts...the person > > > >will have to > > > >> come face with a difficult circumstance and way out will show > > the > > > >> person a great secret about life. > > > >> > > > >> The person will realize two sides of a coin is actually the > > > >same coin. > > > >> Such a person will be a great mediator and a diplomat. The > > native is > > > >> keen on Self Analysis and can recognize slowly and steadily > > > >the effect > > > >> of Maya within. > > > >> > > > >> Such a person can a good teacher and can guide others towards > > their > > > >> learning and solving life's matters. > > > >> > > > >> I would love to hear other's comments on this very interesting > > topic. > > > >> > > > >> Thanks and Regards > > > >> Bharat > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> vedic astrology, "a_srimantula" > > > >> <a_srimantula> wrote: > > > >> > Respected Gurus, > > > >> > > > > >> > In general what are the results of atmakaraka in Arudhalagna? > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanking you all > > > >> > Aruna Srimantula > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Archives: <vedic astrology> > > > vedic astrology > > > >> > > > >> Group info: <vedic- > > astrology/info.html> > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > >> > > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > >> > > > >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> _____ > > > >> > > > >> Free antispam, antivirus and 1GB to save all your messages Only > > in > > > >> Mail: <http://in.mail.> > > http://in.mail. > > > >> > > > >> Archives: <vedic astrology> > > > vedic astrology > > > >> > > > >> Group info: <vedic- > > astrology/info.html> > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > >> > > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > >> > > > >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> _____ > > > >> > > > >> Links > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> * > > > >> <vedic astrology/> > > > vedic astrology/ > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> * > > > >> vedic astrology > > > >> > > > ><vedic astrology? subject=Uns > > > >ubscribe> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> * > > > >Terms of Service > > > >> < <> > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------ Sponsor > > > >--------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? > > > >It is easier than you think. > > > >Click Here to meet a Child you can help. > > > > <http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM> > > > http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM > > > >----------------------------- - > > > >-----~-> > > > > > > > >Archives: <vedic astrology> > > > vedic astrology > > > > > > > >Group info: <vedic- > > astrology/info.html> > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > >....... 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Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Namaskaar Sri Anurag Your question is wonderful. In essence it asks whether I am in an illusion OR the illusion is within me? To assume something that ain't so, is an illusion. In Reality the Parameshwara has no illusion or Maya. Maya is evident from our experience and not from the beingness of the Parmeshwara. Maya is insentience and has the quality to hide the Truth or Reality. Now apply the above to Jyotish: I, the ego self is evident from the hidden aspect of Maya. Parameshwara is everything and yet I find myself separate from him. This is because the Maya hides this Truth from me. This effect is made by the Maya through the Grahas by causing seizing effect and ignorance. As my nature of Parameshwara is hidden from my own self, I assume a personality including a particular mind and senses. This shows the illusion is within me. However, the illusion within me manifests as an illusion outside of me too and both are interdependent. Yat Pinde Tat Brahmande. This in Jyotisha is called Arudha. It is still better to take the illusion as within oneself as it makes the onus of coming out of it on our shoulders. Jeevan Muktas are possible only when we take the illusion within us. However, you can take it to be the same. Now the Atmakaraka: The want of every person to be free from suffering and be happy is a fundamental desire. This is Atmakaraka. It asks the question: What gives me happiness? Sometimes one gets engaged in Artha or Kama for fulfillment. However, the persistent questioning of Atmakaraka brings one out of doubts that limited beliefs, objects, etc... cannot possibly give unlimited happiness. It is, then, it rejects the very idea that it believed earlier due to the effect of Arudhas. I am giving the fundamental idea of Atmakaraka, it may be applied in Jyotisha as Sri Sanjay has in our discussion. You can say a wrong belief or an idea is dropped. But the fundamental idea can still continue, till the idea of separation between I, the ego and I' the Parameshwara is dropped. Atmakaraka does not rest till then, especially if it is strong. I would appreciate everyone's comments on the same. Thank you Sri Anurag for giving me an opportunity to express my thoughts. Thanks and Regards Bharat vedic astrology, "anuraagsharma27" <anuraagsharma27@h...> wrote: > Hello, > > Why not? It would be nice to have your learned views on the subject. > > Thank you. > > Anurag. > > > vedic astrology, "bharateiya" > <bharateiya> wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Anuraag, > > > > Your post and question is addressed to Sri Sanjay. Would you allow > me > > to say something to this effect? > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > > > vedic astrology, "anuraagsharma27" > > <anuraagsharma27@h...> wrote: > > > Respected Sanjay Ji, > > > > > > Pranaam. > > > > > > Firstly, thank you for the illuminating post about the linkages > > > between the Arudha Lagna and the Atmakaraka. > > > > > > I have some questions. It is stated that the Arudha Lagna is our > > > illusory belief system. It has been consistently seen in the > > > writings here that all Arudha Padas shows the illusions of > > > the 'world' about the various facets of the native's life as > seen > > > from the various Bhavas and then manifested as visible > indications > > > by the Bhava Padas themselves. It has been taught basically that > the > > > metaphysical truth about the Jatak is seen from the Lagna, and > what > > > the world perceives of the native is seen from the Arudha Lagna. > > > > > > Is the illusion of Maya that subsists in the Arudha Lagna native- > > > centric? Does it arise of the beliefs of the native himself, > whether > > > through retention or rejection of memory or is it that these > factors > > > apply to the world at large when they contemplate the native in > > > their own minds? > > > > > > It has also been stated in the past that the illusions of the > native > > > are seen from the Graha Arudhas. > > > > > > I suspect there is probably some serious flaw in my > understanding or > > > something is amiss. I tend to think that there may not be water- > > > tight distinctions between the various reference points but it > would > > > be illuminating if you could shed some more light on this. > > > > > > Could it also be that when AK and AL are conjoined, what happens > is > > > that the influences that were coming from the society in the > form of > > > opinions and ideas of that society pertaining to the native > (AL?), > > > are seen for what they actually are (AK influnece) and the hold > of > > > Maya is weakened as the Satya (AK) exposes the empty shell of > the > > > Arudha? The timing could be done from the Vimshottari of the AK > and > > > the replacement studied as you have instructed in your post. > > > > > > It is clear from the post as to the effects of the AK and > linkages > > > with Shani and the effects that could accrue. You have taught > that > > > the 7th from AL is the opposition to the image just as the > Grahas in > > > the 7th from UL tend to show opposing forces from the family of > the > > > spouse. In one's own chart (11th June,1972;10:17 AM; Cuttack, > > > Orissa) the Lagnesh is also the AK placed with Shani and an > Amavasya > > > Tithi > > > Chandra in the 10th House, 7th from the AL, and the Surya- > Chandra- > > > Shani Yuti is also aspected by the Nodes! The interactions of > the > > > image have been such that the tremendous rush and fall of the AL > > > caused by Rashi Drishti of the nodes has been deciphered for > being > > > what it is: a big show of transience that changes in such a > fickle > > > manner. > > > > > > Since the AK is with Shani in A7, just as you have instructed in > the > > > post, the realities relating to interaction have also been > > > suspected, piercing the veil of the Darapada. I am hopeful that > to > > > this extent I have understood what has been taught. > > > > > > It would be kind of you to clear the doubts as to indoctrination > and > > > the AL. > > > > > > I am aware that this message may have many errors and only seeks > to > > > lay down some of my thoughts on the matter. > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > Anurag Sharma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" > <guruji@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jaya Jagannatha > > > > Dear Bharat > > > > > > > > You have made some very fine points about the nature of the > arudha > > > lagna and > > > > atmakaraka. > > > > > > > > Arudha lagna is the illusionary belief system based on our > > > indoctrination > > > > and what we consider as good and bad, what we consider as > right > > > and wrong. > > > > It is always black and white, the good guys and bad guys are > based > > > on this > > > > indoctrination by society (Moon) and mental experiences (Moon- > > > manas) which > > > > is based on memory which agai is a function of selective > retention > > > (Jupiter) > > > > and selective erosion (Saturn) based on how pleasant they > were. > > > This emotion > > > > of pleasant memory and otherwise is subjective to the > individual > > > and will > > > > vary based on the rasi where the arudha lagna is. The arudha > lagna > > > is this > > > > illusion that is created by the intelligence (lagna and paka > > > lagna). > > > > > > > > Now come to the possibility where the arudha lagna and > atmakaraka > > > are in the > > > > same sign. To be in the same sign it becomes imperative that > the > > > lagnesa and > > > > at atmakaraka are different planets. The indoctrination of the > > > society of > > > > influence is indicated by the arudha lagna. Moon is the > > > significator for > > > > this showing the primary indoctrination coming from the > society > > > connected > > > > with home - mother, mother tongue, family, childhood days etc. > > > Jupiter is a > > > > great benefic for the fame and shows the indictrination coming > > > from the > > > > learning that the society offers. > > > > > > > > Now Atmakaraka is like a Jyotirlinga. It holds tremendous > > > knowlege - the > > > > knowledge of the paramesthi guru - the knowlegde of Shiva. > This > > > knowledge > > > > when coming into contact with any arudha or any graha pada > throws > > > up the > > > > *untruth* associated with the indoctrination. After all Shiva > is - > > > satyam > > > > shivam sundaram. > > > > > > > > That is why when the arudha lagna and the atmakaraka come > > > together, the > > > > person starts to question the indoctrination of society. He > > > challenges the > > > > teachings of the society and may reject many such teachings. > Let > > > us examine > > > > some of these cases (since you take the trouble of giving the > > > example, its > > > > my pleasure to continue the thread). > > > > > > > > 1. Mahatma Gandhi has atmakaraka Jupiter, so his arudha lagna > and > > > AL are not > > > > the same. I use the time of 7.30 am LMT for his chart as is > > > reported widely. > > > > The change came for him due to the *atmakaraka replacement* > caused > > > by the > > > > Moon and Jupiter being in the same degree. So at about 24 - 32 > > > years of age > > > > he will change very drastically. When this change will occur, > the > > > arudha > > > > lagna and *new atmakaraka* will become one in Cancer and he > > > questioned the > > > > political system of the day as he has Rahu influencing the > > > atmakaraka Moon. > > > > He questioned the untruth in it and started to show the path > to > > > *RAMA RAJYA* > > > > through satyagraha. Remember New AK Moon is with Rahu. > > > > > > > > 2. Jiddu Krishnamuti has the Sun atmakaraka in arudha lagna in > > > Aries. This > > > > is the most royal sign and the Sun relates to father. There is > a > > > dictum > > > > which states that the Sun in the 1st or 7th house in > Aries/Libra - > > > native is > > > > abandoned by parents. This is true both for Bhagavan Sri Rama > and > > > Jiddu > > > > Krishnamurti who had Sun in AL in Aries and Saturn in 7th > house. > > > > Krishnamurti lost his mother in 1905 and was finally adopted > by > > > Helena > > > > Blavatsky in 1910. Then there was a legal dispute over > parental > > > custody > > > > between Blavatsky and Jiddu Narasimah (Krishnamurti's > biological > > > father). It > > > > finally ended when Krishnamurti finall appeared at the Privy > > > council and > > > > chose Blavatsky instead of his father. [at this stage the > arudha > > > lagna > > > > dominated over the atmakaraka as Krishnamurti was only 18 > years > > > old]. > > > > However, the atmakaraka started rising after his 28 years of > age > > > as it is in > > > > Aries - this was triggered by two events (1) death of father > [sun] > > > in 1924 > > > > and (2) death of brother [Mars] in 1925. Look at the Sun in > Aries > > > as AK. > > > > Then in 1929 on the opening day of the annual Star Camp at > Ommen, > > > Holland, > > > > Krishnamurti dissolved the Order before 3000 members. This was > the > > > complete > > > > and total rejection of the arudha. He questioned the > fundamental > > > basis of > > > > the guru-shisya parampara and said that the spiritual path was > a > > > path to > > > > freedom while the guru-shisya parampara of spiritual lineages > in > > > India were > > > > a kind of bondage. Remember AK Sun in AL is aspected by Saturn. > > > > > > > > 3. Dr. B.V.Raman has the atmakaraka Moon with Saturn in the > arudha > > > lagna and > > > > just like the other two cases, he questioned the basic theory > that > > > jyotisa > > > > should not be taught to foreigners as (1) Jyotisa was a > vedanga > > > and (2) it > > > > should not be taught in foreign languages. He was the first > one to > > > break > > > > free from this in a large scale teaching of jyotisa through > the > > > Astrological > > > > Magazine. To do this he needed to have another yoga as > mentioned > > > in Deva > > > > Keralam: The association of the lords of the 6th and 8th > houses in > > > a yoga > > > > with either the 5th lord or the 5th house. Such a person will > > > teach the > > > > vedas and vedanga to foreigners in a foreign land and in a > foreign > > > language. > > > > In Dr Raman's chart we find that the fifth lord Mercury is > also > > > the 8th lord > > > > and is in kendra to Moon (sarada yoga) and with the dharma- > > > karmadhipati yoga > > > > (highest yoga necessary to teach veda/vedanga). > > > > > > > > The point I am trying to make is that when you say (1) > questionig > > > process, > > > > there must be a suitable combination showing the questioning > > > process and > > > > unless we have a saturn or Rahu involved what will trigger the > > > questioning? > > > > Saturn indicates sorrow and suffering that triggers > questioning > > > while causes > > > > shocks to start the questioning. (2) Many factors that you > state > > > should be > > > > defined and in general is it necessary to achieve by teaching > this > > > knowledge > > > > to others? There are millions who have had similar lessons but > did > > > not > > > > bother to go out and teach it to others like the three we > > > discussed above > > > > did. In each of their cases there were yogas outside the > > > cmbination of AK > > > > and AL to support the activity that is required after the > > > questioning > > > > process. (3) You have correctly pointed out that a harsh > situation > > > > accelerates the questioning and change - this is perfectly > right > > > but then it > > > > must translate into *jyotisa language* which I have done by > adding > > > the > > > > terrible taste of the malefic planets. > > > > > > > > Finally Bharat, thanks for this. It made me see my own chart > and > > > wonder why > > > > I have done what I did so far and whether I should continue > doing > > > it. [Aug > > > > 7, 1963; 9.15 Pm Sambalpur, India] How many more harsh lessons > > > will Saturn > > > > give. > > > > > > > > One more point - the final decision shall also depend on > factors > > > outside the > > > > AK, AL story. Lets try these - Why did Krishnamurti reject the > > > Guru-shisya > > > > parampara of ancient India? Did the makara lagna have a say? > Why > > > did Gandhi > > > > take to Satyagraha on the one hand and dilly dally with > satyagraha > > > in sexual > > > > control? Did the Libra lagna with Mars and Venus have a say? > > > > > > > > With best wishes and warm regards, > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > * * * > > > > Sri Jagannath CenterR > > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > > > > New Delhi 110060, India > > > > <http://srath.com> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >bharateiya [ <bharateiya> > > > > bharateiya] > > > > >Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:20 AM > > > > >vedic astrology > > > > >[vedic astrology] Re: atmakaraka in Al > > > > > > > > > >Namaskaar Again Sri Sanjay > > > > > > > > > >Greal souls who have Atmakaraka in Arudha Lagna are: > > > > >1. Mahatma Gandhi > > > > >2. Sri J. Krishnamurthi > > > > >3. Sri Bangalore Venkata Raman > > > > > > > > > >There are others whose Atmakaraka aspects the Arudha Lagna: > > > > >1. Sri Raman Maharishi - 7th from AL Moon AK 2. Sri Sathya Sai > > > > >Bada - 5th from AL Guru AK 3. Sri Gautam Buddha - 7th from AL > > > > >Buddha AK 4. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu - 7th from AL Saturn AK > > > > > > > > > >I have no references from classical text to show how this > > > > >occurs. My logic is: > > > > >Arudha Lagna signifies the illusion which is born out of the > > > > >seizing effect of Grahas. Seizing is to close one'e eyes to > > > > >the whole picture > > > > >(Truth) and thereby cause ignorance. The mind then > > > > >misinterprets the whole picture by way of Arudha. > > > > > > > > > >Atmakaraka is the force that desires freedom. It propels us > > > > >towards it. > > > > > > > > > >Atmakaraka in AL signify two opposite forces and therefore a > > > conflict. > > > > >Atmakaraka if strong and in its period, will cause a rift in > the > > > mind. > > > > >It will start the questioning process. The questioning process > > > > >shall succeed or not is dependent upon many factors. However, > > > > >the march towards emotional maturity and understanding the > > > > >limitedness of illusionary joys begins. > > > > > > > > > >If a harsh situation occurs for the native, then this process > > > > >can be faster. > > > > > > > > > >This is a topic to be researched and I request others to post > > > > >their views and if they have sastras know how, then, to share > it. > > > > > > > > > >Thanks and Regards > > > > >Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" > > > > ><guruji@s...> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Jaya Jagannatha > > > > >> Dear Bharat > > > > >> Can you cite some examples of great souls who have the > > > atmakaraka in > > > > >arudha > > > > >> lagna and have shown the path to immortality or moksha or > some > > > such > > > > >great > > > > >> activity? I shall be most grateful. > > > > >> With best wishes and warm regards, > > > > >> Sanjay Rath > > > > >> * * * > > > > >> Sri Jagannath CenterR > > > > >> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > > > > >> New Delhi 110060, India > > > > >> <http://srath.com> http://srath.com < <http://srath.com/> > > > > http://srath.com/> , +91-11-25717162 > > > > >> * * * > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> bharateiya <bharateiya> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> Namaskaar Shree Aruna > > > > >> > > > > >> Atmakaraka is a propelling graha towards knowledge of > oneself. > > > In > > > > >> Arudha lagna it disspells the ignorance and the illusion. > The > > > result > > > > >> is in whenever the associated period starts...the person > > > > >will have to > > > > >> come face with a difficult circumstance and way out will > show > > > the > > > > >> person a great secret about life. > > > > >> > > > > >> The person will realize two sides of a coin is actually the > > > > >same coin. > > > > >> Such a person will be a great mediator and a diplomat. The > > > native is > > > > >> keen on Self Analysis and can recognize slowly and steadily > > > > >the effect > > > > >> of Maya within. > > > > >> > > > > >> Such a person can a good teacher and can guide others > towards > > > their > > > > >> learning and solving life's matters. > > > > >> > > > > >> I would love to hear other's comments on this very > interesting > > > topic. > > > > >> > > > > >> Thanks and Regards > > > > >> Bharat > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> vedic astrology, "a_srimantula" > > > > >> <a_srimantula> wrote: > > > > >> > Respected Gurus, > > > > >> > > > > > >> > In general what are the results of atmakaraka in > Arudhalagna? > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Thanking you all > > > > >> > Aruna Srimantula > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Archives: <vedic astrology> > > > > vedic astrology > > > > >> > > > > >> Group info: <vedic- > > > astrology/info.html> > > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > >> > > > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> _____ > > > > >> > > > > >> Free antispam, antivirus and 1GB to save all your messages > Only > > > in > > > > >> Mail: <http://in.mail.> > > > http://in.mail. > > > > >> > > > > >> Archives: <vedic astrology> > > > > vedic astrology > > > > >> > > > > >> Group info: <vedic- > > > astrology/info.html> > > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > >> > > > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> _____ > > > > >> > > > > >> Links > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> * > > > > >> <vedic astrology/> > > > > vedic astrology/ > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> * > > > > >> vedic astrology > > > > >> > > > > ><vedic astrology? > subject=Uns > > > > >ubscribe> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> * > > > > >Terms of Service > > > > >> < <> > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------ Sponsor > > > > >--------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? > > > > >It is easier than you think. > > > > >Click Here to meet a Child you can help. > > > > > <http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM> > > > > http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM > > > > >--------------------------- -- > - > > > > >-----~-> > > > > > > > > > >Archives: <vedic astrology> > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > >Group info: <vedic- > > > astrology/info.html> > > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > >....... 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Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Bharat Ji, Thank you for your illuminating views. They have certainly enriched my understanding. Anurag. vedic astrology, "bharateiya" <bharateiya> wrote: > Namaskaar Sri Anurag > > Your question is wonderful. In essence it asks whether I am in an > illusion OR the illusion is within me? > > To assume something that ain't so, is an illusion. In Reality the > Parameshwara has no illusion or Maya. Maya is evident from our > experience and not from the beingness of the Parmeshwara. Maya is > insentience and has the quality to hide the Truth or Reality. > > Now apply the above to Jyotish: > I, the ego self is evident from the hidden aspect of Maya. > Parameshwara is everything and yet I find myself separate from him. > This is because the Maya hides this Truth from me. This effect is > made by the Maya through the Grahas by causing seizing effect and > ignorance. > > As my nature of Parameshwara is hidden from my own self, I assume a > personality including a particular mind and senses. This shows the > illusion is within me. However, the illusion within me manifests as > an illusion outside of me too and both are interdependent. Yat Pinde > Tat Brahmande. This in Jyotisha is called Arudha. > > It is still better to take the illusion as within oneself as it > makes the onus of coming out of it on our shoulders. Jeevan Muktas > are possible only when we take the illusion within us. However, you > can take it to be the same. > > Now the Atmakaraka: > The want of every person to be free from suffering and be happy is a > fundamental desire. This is Atmakaraka. It asks the question: What > gives me happiness? Sometimes one gets engaged in Artha or Kama for > fulfillment. However, the persistent questioning of Atmakaraka > brings one out of doubts that limited beliefs, objects, etc... > cannot possibly give unlimited happiness. It is, then, it rejects > the very idea that it believed earlier due to the effect of Arudhas. > > I am giving the fundamental idea of Atmakaraka, it may be applied in > Jyotisha as Sri Sanjay has in our discussion. You can say a wrong > belief or an idea is dropped. But the fundamental idea can still > continue, till the idea of separation between I, the ego and I' the > Parameshwara is dropped. > > Atmakaraka does not rest till then, especially if it is strong. > > I would appreciate everyone's comments on the same. > > Thank you Sri Anurag for giving me an opportunity to express my > thoughts. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > > vedic astrology, "anuraagsharma27" > <anuraagsharma27@h...> wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Why not? It would be nice to have your learned views on the > subject. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Anurag. > > > > > > vedic astrology, "bharateiya" > > <bharateiya> wrote: > > > Namaskaar Sri Anuraag, > > > > > > Your post and question is addressed to Sri Sanjay. Would you > allow > > me > > > to say something to this effect? > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "anuraagsharma27" > > > <anuraagsharma27@h...> wrote: > > > > Respected Sanjay Ji, > > > > > > > > Pranaam. > > > > > > > > Firstly, thank you for the illuminating post about the > linkages > > > > between the Arudha Lagna and the Atmakaraka. > > > > > > > > I have some questions. It is stated that the Arudha Lagna is > our > > > > illusory belief system. It has been consistently seen in the > > > > writings here that all Arudha Padas shows the illusions of > > > > the 'world' about the various facets of the native's life as > > seen > > > > from the various Bhavas and then manifested as visible > > indications > > > > by the Bhava Padas themselves. It has been taught basically > that > > the > > > > metaphysical truth about the Jatak is seen from the Lagna, and > > what > > > > the world perceives of the native is seen from the Arudha > Lagna. > > > > > > > > Is the illusion of Maya that subsists in the Arudha Lagna > native- > > > > centric? Does it arise of the beliefs of the native himself, > > whether > > > > through retention or rejection of memory or is it that these > > factors > > > > apply to the world at large when they contemplate the native > in > > > > their own minds? > > > > > > > > It has also been stated in the past that the illusions of the > > native > > > > are seen from the Graha Arudhas. > > > > > > > > I suspect there is probably some serious flaw in my > > understanding or > > > > something is amiss. I tend to think that there may not be > water- > > > > tight distinctions between the various reference points but it > > would > > > > be illuminating if you could shed some more light on this. > > > > > > > > Could it also be that when AK and AL are conjoined, what > happens > > is > > > > that the influences that were coming from the society in the > > form of > > > > opinions and ideas of that society pertaining to the native > > (AL?), > > > > are seen for what they actually are (AK influnece) and the > hold > > of > > > > Maya is weakened as the Satya (AK) exposes the empty shell of > > the > > > > Arudha? The timing could be done from the Vimshottari of the > AK > > and > > > > the replacement studied as you have instructed in your post. > > > > > > > > It is clear from the post as to the effects of the AK and > > linkages > > > > with Shani and the effects that could accrue. You have taught > > that > > > > the 7th from AL is the opposition to the image just as the > > Grahas in > > > > the 7th from UL tend to show opposing forces from the family > of > > the > > > > spouse. In one's own chart (11th June,1972;10:17 AM; Cuttack, > > > > Orissa) the Lagnesh is also the AK placed with Shani and an > > Amavasya > > > > Tithi > > > > Chandra in the 10th House, 7th from the AL, and the Surya- > > Chandra- > > > > Shani Yuti is also aspected by the Nodes! The interactions of > > the > > > > image have been such that the tremendous rush and fall of the > AL > > > > caused by Rashi Drishti of the nodes has been deciphered for > > being > > > > what it is: a big show of transience that changes in such a > > fickle > > > > manner. > > > > > > > > Since the AK is with Shani in A7, just as you have instructed > in > > the > > > > post, the realities relating to interaction have also been > > > > suspected, piercing the veil of the Darapada. I am hopeful > that > > to > > > > this extent I have understood what has been taught. > > > > > > > > It would be kind of you to clear the doubts as to > indoctrination > > and > > > > the AL. > > > > > > > > I am aware that this message may have many errors and only > seeks > > to > > > > lay down some of my thoughts on the matter. > > > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > Anurag Sharma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" > > <guruji@s...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jaya Jagannatha > > > > > Dear Bharat > > > > > > > > > > You have made some very fine points about the nature of the > > arudha > > > > lagna and > > > > > atmakaraka. > > > > > > > > > > Arudha lagna is the illusionary belief system based on our > > > > indoctrination > > > > > and what we consider as good and bad, what we consider as > > right > > > > and wrong. > > > > > It is always black and white, the good guys and bad guys are > > based > > > > on this > > > > > indoctrination by society (Moon) and mental experiences > (Moon- > > > > manas) which > > > > > is based on memory which agai is a function of selective > > retention > > > > (Jupiter) > > > > > and selective erosion (Saturn) based on how pleasant they > > were. > > > > This emotion > > > > > of pleasant memory and otherwise is subjective to the > > individual > > > > and will > > > > > vary based on the rasi where the arudha lagna is. The arudha > > lagna > > > > is this > > > > > illusion that is created by the intelligence (lagna and paka > > > > lagna). > > > > > > > > > > Now come to the possibility where the arudha lagna and > > atmakaraka > > > > are in the > > > > > same sign. To be in the same sign it becomes imperative that > > the > > > > lagnesa and > > > > > at atmakaraka are different planets. The indoctrination of > the > > > > society of > > > > > influence is indicated by the arudha lagna. Moon is the > > > > significator for > > > > > this showing the primary indoctrination coming from the > > society > > > > connected > > > > > with home - mother, mother tongue, family, childhood days > etc. > > > > Jupiter is a > > > > > great benefic for the fame and shows the indictrination > coming > > > > from the > > > > > learning that the society offers. > > > > > > > > > > Now Atmakaraka is like a Jyotirlinga. It holds tremendous > > > > knowlege - the > > > > > knowledge of the paramesthi guru - the knowlegde of Shiva. > > This > > > > knowledge > > > > > when coming into contact with any arudha or any graha pada > > throws > > > > up the > > > > > *untruth* associated with the indoctrination. After all > Shiva > > is - > > > > satyam > > > > > shivam sundaram. > > > > > > > > > > That is why when the arudha lagna and the atmakaraka come > > > > together, the > > > > > person starts to question the indoctrination of society. He > > > > challenges the > > > > > teachings of the society and may reject many such teachings. > > Let > > > > us examine > > > > > some of these cases (since you take the trouble of giving > the > > > > example, its > > > > > my pleasure to continue the thread). > > > > > > > > > > 1. Mahatma Gandhi has atmakaraka Jupiter, so his arudha > lagna > > and > > > > AL are not > > > > > the same. I use the time of 7.30 am LMT for his chart as is > > > > reported widely. > > > > > The change came for him due to the *atmakaraka replacement* > > caused > > > > by the > > > > > Moon and Jupiter being in the same degree. So at about 24 - > 32 > > > > years of age > > > > > he will change very drastically. When this change will > occur, > > the > > > > arudha > > > > > lagna and *new atmakaraka* will become one in Cancer and he > > > > questioned the > > > > > political system of the day as he has Rahu influencing the > > > > atmakaraka Moon. > > > > > He questioned the untruth in it and started to show the path > > to > > > > *RAMA RAJYA* > > > > > through satyagraha. Remember New AK Moon is with Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > 2. Jiddu Krishnamuti has the Sun atmakaraka in arudha lagna > in > > > > Aries. This > > > > > is the most royal sign and the Sun relates to father. There > is > > a > > > > dictum > > > > > which states that the Sun in the 1st or 7th house in > > Aries/Libra - > > > > native is > > > > > abandoned by parents. This is true both for Bhagavan Sri > Rama > > and > > > > Jiddu > > > > > Krishnamurti who had Sun in AL in Aries and Saturn in 7th > > house. > > > > > Krishnamurti lost his mother in 1905 and was finally adopted > > by > > > > Helena > > > > > Blavatsky in 1910. Then there was a legal dispute over > > parental > > > > custody > > > > > between Blavatsky and Jiddu Narasimah (Krishnamurti's > > biological > > > > father). It > > > > > finally ended when Krishnamurti finall appeared at the Privy > > > > council and > > > > > chose Blavatsky instead of his father. [at this stage the > > arudha > > > > lagna > > > > > dominated over the atmakaraka as Krishnamurti was only 18 > > years > > > > old]. > > > > > However, the atmakaraka started rising after his 28 years of > > age > > > > as it is in > > > > > Aries - this was triggered by two events (1) death of father > > [sun] > > > > in 1924 > > > > > and (2) death of brother [Mars] in 1925. Look at the Sun in > > Aries > > > > as AK. > > > > > Then in 1929 on the opening day of the annual Star Camp at > > Ommen, > > > > Holland, > > > > > Krishnamurti dissolved the Order before 3000 members. This > was > > the > > > > complete > > > > > and total rejection of the arudha. He questioned the > > fundamental > > > > basis of > > > > > the guru-shisya parampara and said that the spiritual path > was > > a > > > > path to > > > > > freedom while the guru-shisya parampara of spiritual > lineages > > in > > > > India were > > > > > a kind of bondage. Remember AK Sun in AL is aspected by > Saturn. > > > > > > > > > > 3. Dr. B.V.Raman has the atmakaraka Moon with Saturn in the > > arudha > > > > lagna and > > > > > just like the other two cases, he questioned the basic > theory > > that > > > > jyotisa > > > > > should not be taught to foreigners as (1) Jyotisa was a > > vedanga > > > > and (2) it > > > > > should not be taught in foreign languages. He was the first > > one to > > > > break > > > > > free from this in a large scale teaching of jyotisa through > > the > > > > Astrological > > > > > Magazine. To do this he needed to have another yoga as > > mentioned > > > > in Deva > > > > > Keralam: The association of the lords of the 6th and 8th > > houses in > > > > a yoga > > > > > with either the 5th lord or the 5th house. Such a person > will > > > > teach the > > > > > vedas and vedanga to foreigners in a foreign land and in a > > foreign > > > > language. > > > > > In Dr Raman's chart we find that the fifth lord Mercury is > > also > > > > the 8th lord > > > > > and is in kendra to Moon (sarada yoga) and with the dharma- > > > > karmadhipati yoga > > > > > (highest yoga necessary to teach veda/vedanga). > > > > > > > > > > The point I am trying to make is that when you say (1) > > questionig > > > > process, > > > > > there must be a suitable combination showing the questioning > > > > process and > > > > > unless we have a saturn or Rahu involved what will trigger > the > > > > questioning? > > > > > Saturn indicates sorrow and suffering that triggers > > questioning > > > > while causes > > > > > shocks to start the questioning. (2) Many factors that you > > state > > > > should be > > > > > defined and in general is it necessary to achieve by > teaching > > this > > > > knowledge > > > > > to others? There are millions who have had similar lessons > but > > did > > > > not > > > > > bother to go out and teach it to others like the three we > > > > discussed above > > > > > did. In each of their cases there were yogas outside the > > > > cmbination of AK > > > > > and AL to support the activity that is required after the > > > > questioning > > > > > process. (3) You have correctly pointed out that a harsh > > situation > > > > > accelerates the questioning and change - this is perfectly > > right > > > > but then it > > > > > must translate into *jyotisa language* which I have done by > > adding > > > > the > > > > > terrible taste of the malefic planets. > > > > > > > > > > Finally Bharat, thanks for this. It made me see my own chart > > and > > > > wonder why > > > > > I have done what I did so far and whether I should continue > > doing > > > > it. [Aug > > > > > 7, 1963; 9.15 Pm Sambalpur, India] How many more harsh > lessons > > > > will Saturn > > > > > give. > > > > > > > > > > One more point - the final decision shall also depend on > > factors > > > > outside the > > > > > AK, AL story. Lets try these - Why did Krishnamurti reject > the > > > > Guru-shisya > > > > > parampara of ancient India? Did the makara lagna have a say? > > Why > > > > did Gandhi > > > > > take to Satyagraha on the one hand and dilly dally with > > satyagraha > > > > in sexual > > > > > control? Did the Libra lagna with Mars and Venus have a say? > > > > > > > > > > With best wishes and warm regards, > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > * * * > > > > > Sri Jagannath CenterR > > > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > > > > > New Delhi 110060, India > > > > > <http://srath.com> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >bharateiya [ <bharateiya> > > > > > bharateiya] > > > > > >Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:20 AM > > > > > >vedic astrology > > > > > >[vedic astrology] Re: atmakaraka in Al > > > > > > > > > > > >Namaskaar Again Sri Sanjay > > > > > > > > > > > >Greal souls who have Atmakaraka in Arudha Lagna are: > > > > > >1. Mahatma Gandhi > > > > > >2. Sri J. Krishnamurthi > > > > > >3. Sri Bangalore Venkata Raman > > > > > > > > > > > >There are others whose Atmakaraka aspects the Arudha Lagna: > > > > > >1. Sri Raman Maharishi - 7th from AL Moon AK 2. Sri Sathya > Sai > > > > > >Bada - 5th from AL Guru AK 3. Sri Gautam Buddha - 7th from > AL > > > > > >Buddha AK 4. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu - 7th from AL Saturn > AK > > > > > > > > > > > >I have no references from classical text to show how this > > > > > >occurs. My logic is: > > > > > >Arudha Lagna signifies the illusion which is born out of the > > > > > >seizing effect of Grahas. Seizing is to close one'e eyes to > > > > > >the whole picture > > > > > >(Truth) and thereby cause ignorance. The mind then > > > > > >misinterprets the whole picture by way of Arudha. > > > > > > > > > > > >Atmakaraka is the force that desires freedom. It propels us > > > > > >towards it. > > > > > > > > > > > >Atmakaraka in AL signify two opposite forces and therefore > a > > > > conflict. > > > > > >Atmakaraka if strong and in its period, will cause a rift > in > > the > > > > mind. > > > > > >It will start the questioning process. The questioning > process > > > > > >shall succeed or not is dependent upon many factors. > However, > > > > > >the march towards emotional maturity and understanding the > > > > > >limitedness of illusionary joys begins. > > > > > > > > > > > >If a harsh situation occurs for the native, then this > process > > > > > >can be faster. > > > > > > > > > > > >This is a topic to be researched and I request others to > post > > > > > >their views and if they have sastras know how, then, to > share > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks and Regards > > > > > >Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" > > > > > ><guruji@s...> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Jaya Jagannatha > > > > > >> Dear Bharat > > > > > >> Can you cite some examples of great souls who have the > > > > atmakaraka in > > > > > >arudha > > > > > >> lagna and have shown the path to immortality or moksha or > > some > > > > such > > > > > >great > > > > > >> activity? I shall be most grateful. > > > > > >> With best wishes and warm regards, > > > > > >> Sanjay Rath > > > > > >> * * * > > > > > >> Sri Jagannath CenterR > > > > > >> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > > > > > >> New Delhi 110060, India > > > > > >> <http://srath.com> http://srath.com < <http://srath.com/> > > > > > http://srath.com/> , +91-11-25717162 > > > > > >> * * * > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> bharateiya <bharateiya> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Namaskaar Shree Aruna > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Atmakaraka is a propelling graha towards knowledge of > > oneself. > > > > In > > > > > >> Arudha lagna it disspells the ignorance and the illusion. > > The > > > > result > > > > > >> is in whenever the associated period starts...the person > > > > > >will have to > > > > > >> come face with a difficult circumstance and way out will > > show > > > > the > > > > > >> person a great secret about life. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> The person will realize two sides of a coin is actually > the > > > > > >same coin. > > > > > >> Such a person will be a great mediator and a diplomat. > The > > > > native is > > > > > >> keen on Self Analysis and can recognize slowly and > steadily > > > > > >the effect > > > > > >> of Maya within. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Such a person can a good teacher and can guide others > > towards > > > > their > > > > > >> learning and solving life's matters. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I would love to hear other's comments on this very > > interesting > > > > topic. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Thanks and Regards > > > > > >> Bharat > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> vedic astrology, "a_srimantula" > > > > > >> <a_srimantula> wrote: > > > > > >> > Respected Gurus, > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > In general what are the results of atmakaraka in > > Arudhalagna? > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Thanking you all > > > > > >> > Aruna Srimantula > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Archives: <vedic- astrology> > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Group info: <vedic- > > > > astrology/info.html> > > > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > >> > > > > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > >> > > > > > >> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> _____ > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Free antispam, antivirus and 1GB to save all your > messages > > Only > > > > in > > > > > >> Mail: <http://in.mail.> > > > > http://in.mail. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Archives: <vedic- astrology> > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Group info: <vedic- > > > > astrology/info.html> > > > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > >> > > > > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > >> > > > > > >> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> _____ > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Links > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> * > > > > > >> <vedic astrology/> > > > > > vedic astrology/ > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> * > > > > > >> vedic astrology > > > > > >> > > > > > ><vedic astrology? > > subject=Uns > > > > > >ubscribe> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> * > > > > > >Terms of Service > > > > > >> < <> > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------ Sponsor > > > > > >--------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? > > > > > >It is easier than you think. > > > > > >Click Here to meet a Child you can help. > > > > > > <http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM> > > > > > http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM > > > > > >------------------------- -- > -- > > - > > > > > >-----~-> > > > > > > > > > > > >Archives: <vedic astrology> > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > >Group info: <vedic- > > > > astrology/info.html> > > > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >....... 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Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Respected Sanjay Ji, Pranaam. I've had some time to ponder the last post from you on this topic. I find certain crucial things clarified in my mind. I found that the Arudha does not merely encompass the attentions of the world but also of the Jatak himself. It struck me that after all the location of the Arudha is contingent on the location of the Lagnesh/ Paka Lagna. It also became clearer to me as to how Guru would govern the memory since you have taught that Guru is the Karaka of the Paka lagna. The Self we can see from the Lagna/ Lagnesh. The Arudha and its qualities, then have two observers: the world and the Jatak himself. I understand now that the two references are distinct. It was thought-provoking to see the term used by you in that post:'the hangover of the Arudha'. It is indicative of something that lingers even though the Arudha itself has metamorphosised. Later in the post you also choose to question the change in the Arudha after death. Generally speaking, some factors come to mind, though I cannot venture how legitimate they might be. One, Guru's location in the chart, since He is very good for the Arudha in general and in the 2nd House from the AL could give an Arudha that lingers on/ even rises after death. Guru, as you have pointed out, is the embodiment of Narayana in the chart and would not be curtialed by the ceasing of the body to still promote the Arudha through fame. Another factor could be the location of the Moon with respect to the Arudha Lagna. An exalted Graha in the 7th from the AL is said to give fame. If Chandra as the Karaka of the Arudha is well disposed, perhaps in the 7th from the AL, or elsewhere, the social manifstation (AL) may continue to thrive after death. What secrets might linger between the Bhavas as reckoned from the Lagna and those as reckoned from the Arudha I suspect are not before us at the present moment.I do not include everyone in this 'us' and some may actually have these linkages. For example, the fact that the 3rd and 6th from the AL have been taught to determine renunciation is, in my amateur opinion, a pointer to the deep roots between the metaphysics so loaded in the Bhavas as counted from Lagna, and the sheer precipitate of the Arudha. The Arudha may be Mayik but I do not think renunciation would be seen from the AL unless there were deeper links between that which rises and that which makes it rise. Else, from untruth emerges the methodology to determine true shunning of the gloss of the world? Unlikely. I am grateful for your elaboration on the matter. Anurag. vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...> wrote: > > > Jaya Jagannatha > Dear Anurag > Illusion is not something that is just centric to the individual. It is an > image and will be seen differently b different people based on their own > perception of the image. The way you look at Bill Clinton shall be different > than the way I see him or the way Hillary Clinton sees him, so it is centric > from various view points. Yet it is an image and this image is a more than > life figure as the President of the USA. This image is the arudha and he > rode this image for some time and then the nature of the arudha changed, yet > the hangover of the arudha continues. It is more like a flavor that is based > on retained memory. Now we all know (retained memory) that he was the > president. He also knows this. What happens to one like President Reagan who > loses the memory that he was President. What effect does this have on the > arudha? Does it cause the arudha to change from (1) his perspective and (2) > from the worlds perspective. So you see the arudha is important and the paka > lagna is also very important. If the lagnesa does not like the arudha for > some reason in the change in dasa due to anifestation of disease or an > accident etc, then the memory of the arudha maybe wiped out. Here the AK > comes into the picture and you will find the AK laying a role to do this > job...or sometimes the GURU the Bhratrkaraka as the Guru has the power to > memory. See Reagans chart. > > In Reagans chart the AK Mercury is in lagna (intelligence) with Mars and > aspected by Rahu...is this not a curse coming on the Mercury? Note that > there are two charakaraka replacements involving (1) PiK and PK and (2) BK > and MK. It was in the dasa of the AK which is also badhakesh and in the > curse that the disease got really bad, especially after 1994 onwards. I > think he finally died in Merc dasa Mars antardasa...planets in lagna. > > Point again is did the arudha change? From his viewpoint [lagna/lagnesh] it > did as he forget he was President, and even forgot the name of his wife > etc...it must be very painful for the near and dear ones. But for the world > [Moon] the arudha never changed. > > Now try to do the chart of someone like Saint Joan who was burnt as a witch > and then canonised as a saint. The arudha changed after death! How do we see > this??? Interesting. > > With best wishes and warm regards, > Sanjay Rath > * * * > Sri Jagannath CenterR > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India > http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 > * * * > > > > > >anuraagsharma27 [anuraagsharma27@h...] > >Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:14 AM > >vedic astrology > >[vedic astrology] Re: atmakaraka in Al > > > >Respected Sanjay Ji, > > > >Pranaam. > > > >Firstly, thank you for the illuminating post about the > >linkages between the Arudha Lagna and the Atmakaraka. > > > >I have some questions. It is stated that the Arudha Lagna is > >our illusory belief system. It has been consistently seen in > >the writings here that all Arudha Padas shows the illusions of > >the 'world' about the various facets of the native's life as > >seen from the various Bhavas and then manifested as visible > >indications by the Bhava Padas themselves. It has been taught > >basically that the metaphysical truth about the Jatak is seen > >from the Lagna, and what the world perceives of the native is > >seen from the Arudha Lagna. > > > >Is the illusion of Maya that subsists in the Arudha Lagna > >native- centric? Does it arise of the beliefs of the native > >himself, whether through retention or rejection of memory or > >is it that these factors apply to the world at large when they > >contemplate the native in their own minds? > > > >It has also been stated in the past that the illusions of the > >native are seen from the Graha Arudhas. > > > >I suspect there is probably some serious flaw in my > >understanding or something is amiss. I tend to think that > >there may not be water- tight distinctions between the various > >reference points but it would be illuminating if you could > >shed some more light on this. > > > >Could it also be that when AK and AL are conjoined, what > >happens is that the influences that were coming from the > >society in the form of opinions and ideas of that society > >pertaining to the native (AL?), are seen for what they > >actually are (AK influnece) and the hold of Maya is weakened > >as the Satya (AK) exposes the empty shell of the Arudha? The > >timing could be done from the Vimshottari of the AK and the > >replacement studied as you have instructed in your post. > > > >It is clear from the post as to the effects of the AK and > >linkages with Shani and the effects that could accrue. You > >have taught that the 7th from AL is the opposition to the > >image just as the Grahas in the 7th from UL tend to show > >opposing forces from the family of the spouse. In one's own > >chart (11th June,1972;10:17 AM; Cuttack, > >Orissa) the Lagnesh is also the AK placed with Shani and an > >Amavasya Tithi Chandra in the 10th House, 7th from the AL, and > >the Surya-Chandra- Shani Yuti is also aspected by the Nodes! > >The interactions of the image have been such that the > >tremendous rush and fall of the AL caused by Rashi Drishti of > >the nodes has been deciphered for being what it is: a big show > >of transience that changes in such a fickle manner. > > > >Since the AK is with Shani in A7, just as you have instructed > >in the post, the realities relating to interaction have also > >been suspected, piercing the veil of the Darapada. I am > >hopeful that to this extent I have understood what has been taught. > > > >It would be kind of you to clear the doubts as to > >indoctrination and the AL. > > > >I am aware that this message may have many errors and only > >seeks to lay down some of my thoughts on the matter. > > > >Regards. > > > >Anurag Sharma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...> > >wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> Jaya Jagannatha > >> Dear Bharat > >> > >> You have made some very fine points about the nature of the arudha > >lagna and > >> atmakaraka. > >> > >> Arudha lagna is the illusionary belief system based on our > >indoctrination > >> and what we consider as good and bad, what we consider as right > >and wrong. > >> It is always black and white, the good guys and bad guys are based > >on this > >> indoctrination by society (Moon) and mental experiences (Moon- > >manas) which > >> is based on memory which agai is a function of selective retention > >(Jupiter) > >> and selective erosion (Saturn) based on how pleasant they were. > >This emotion > >> of pleasant memory and otherwise is subjective to the individual > >and will > >> vary based on the rasi where the arudha lagna is. The arudha lagna > >is this > >> illusion that is created by the intelligence (lagna and paka > >lagna). > >> > >> Now come to the possibility where the arudha lagna and atmakaraka > >are in the > >> same sign. To be in the same sign it becomes imperative that the > >lagnesa and > >> at atmakaraka are different planets. The indoctrination of the > >society of > >> influence is indicated by the arudha lagna. Moon is the > >significator for > >> this showing the primary indoctrination coming from the society > >connected > >> with home - mother, mother tongue, family, childhood days etc. > >Jupiter is a > >> great benefic for the fame and shows the indictrination coming > >from the > >> learning that the society offers. > >> > >> Now Atmakaraka is like a Jyotirlinga. It holds tremendous > >knowlege - the > >> knowledge of the paramesthi guru - the knowlegde of Shiva. This > >knowledge > >> when coming into contact with any arudha or any graha pada throws > >up the > >> *untruth* associated with the indoctrination. After all Shiva is - > >satyam > >> shivam sundaram. > >> > >> That is why when the arudha lagna and the atmakaraka come > >together, the > >> person starts to question the indoctrination of society. He > >challenges the > >> teachings of the society and may reject many such teachings. Let > >us examine > >> some of these cases (since you take the trouble of giving the > >example, its > >> my pleasure to continue the thread). > >> > >> 1. Mahatma Gandhi has atmakaraka Jupiter, so his arudha lagna and > >AL are not > >> the same. I use the time of 7.30 am LMT for his chart as is > >reported widely. > >> The change came for him due to the *atmakaraka replacement* caused > >by the > >> Moon and Jupiter being in the same degree. So at about 24 -32 > >years of age > >> he will change very drastically. When this change will occur, the > >arudha > >> lagna and *new atmakaraka* will become one in Cancer and he > >questioned the > >> political system of the day as he has Rahu influencing the > >atmakaraka Moon. > >> He questioned the untruth in it and started to show the path to > >*RAMA RAJYA* > >> through satyagraha. Remember New AK Moon is with Rahu. > >> > >> 2. Jiddu Krishnamuti has the Sun atmakaraka in arudha lagna in > >Aries. This > >> is the most royal sign and the Sun relates to father. There is a > >dictum > >> which states that the Sun in the 1st or 7th house in Aries/Libra - > >native is > >> abandoned by parents. This is true both for Bhagavan Sri Rama and > >Jiddu > >> Krishnamurti who had Sun in AL in Aries and Saturn in 7th house. > >> Krishnamurti lost his mother in 1905 and was finally adopted by > >Helena > >> Blavatsky in 1910. Then there was a legal dispute over parental > >custody > >> between Blavatsky and Jiddu Narasimah (Krishnamurti's biological > >father). It > >> finally ended when Krishnamurti finall appeared at the Privy > >council and > >> chose Blavatsky instead of his father. [at this stage the arudha > >lagna > >> dominated over the atmakaraka as Krishnamurti was only 18 years > >old]. > >> However, the atmakaraka started rising after his 28 years of age > >as it is in > >> Aries - this was triggered by two events (1) death of father [sun] > >in 1924 > >> and (2) death of brother [Mars] in 1925. Look at the Sun in Aries > >as AK. > >> Then in 1929 on the opening day of the annual Star Camp at Ommen, > >Holland, > >> Krishnamurti dissolved the Order before 3000 members. This was the > >complete > >> and total rejection of the arudha. He questioned the fundamental > >basis of > >> the guru-shisya parampara and said that the spiritual path was a > >path to > >> freedom while the guru-shisya parampara of spiritual lineages in > >India were > >> a kind of bondage. Remember AK Sun in AL is aspected by Saturn. > >> > >> 3. Dr. B.V.Raman has the atmakaraka Moon with Saturn in the arudha > >lagna and > >> just like the other two cases, he questioned the basic theory that > >jyotisa > >> should not be taught to foreigners as (1) Jyotisa was a vedanga > >and (2) it > >> should not be taught in foreign languages. He was the first one to > >break > >> free from this in a large scale teaching of jyotisa through the > >Astrological > >> Magazine. To do this he needed to have another yoga as mentioned > >in Deva > >> Keralam: The association of the lords of the 6th and 8th houses in > >a yoga > >> with either the 5th lord or the 5th house. Such a person will > >teach the > >> vedas and vedanga to foreigners in a foreign land and in a foreign > >language. > >> In Dr Raman's chart we find that the fifth lord Mercury is also > >the 8th lord > >> and is in kendra to Moon (sarada yoga) and with the dharma- > >karmadhipati yoga > >> (highest yoga necessary to teach veda/vedanga). > >> > >> The point I am trying to make is that when you say (1) questionig > >process, > >> there must be a suitable combination showing the questioning > >process and > >> unless we have a saturn or Rahu involved what will trigger the > >questioning? > >> Saturn indicates sorrow and suffering that triggers questioning > >while causes > >> shocks to start the questioning. (2) Many factors that you state > >should be > >> defined and in general is it necessary to achieve by teaching this > >knowledge > >> to others? There are millions who have had similar lessons but did > >not > >> bother to go out and teach it to others like the three we > >discussed above > >> did. In each of their cases there were yogas outside the > >cmbination of AK > >> and AL to support the activity that is required after the > >questioning > >> process. (3) You have correctly pointed out that a harsh situation > >> accelerates the questioning and change - this is perfectly right > >but then it > >> must translate into *jyotisa language* which I have done by adding > >the > >> terrible taste of the malefic planets. > >> > >> Finally Bharat, thanks for this. It made me see my own chart and > >wonder why > >> I have done what I did so far and whether I should continue doing > >it. [Aug > >> 7, 1963; 9.15 Pm Sambalpur, India] How many more harsh lessons > >will Saturn > >> give. > >> > >> One more point - the final decision shall also depend on factors > >outside the > >> AK, AL story. Lets try these - Why did Krishnamurti reject the > >Guru-shisya > >> parampara of ancient India? Did the makara lagna have a say? Why > >did Gandhi > >> take to Satyagraha on the one hand and dilly dally with satyagraha > >in sexual > >> control? Did the Libra lagna with Mars and Venus have a say? > >> > >> With best wishes and warm regards, > >> Sanjay Rath > >> * * * > >> Sri Jagannath CenterR > >> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > >> New Delhi 110060, India > >> <http://srath.com> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 > >> * * * > >> > >> > >> > > >> >bharateiya [ <bharateiya> > >> bharateiya] > >> >Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:20 AM > >> >vedic astrology > >> >[vedic astrology] Re: atmakaraka in Al > >> > > >> >Namaskaar Again Sri Sanjay > >> > > >> >Greal souls who have Atmakaraka in Arudha Lagna are: > >> >1. Mahatma Gandhi > >> >2. Sri J. Krishnamurthi > >> >3. Sri Bangalore Venkata Raman > >> > > >> >There are others whose Atmakaraka aspects the Arudha Lagna: > >> >1. Sri Raman Maharishi - 7th from AL Moon AK 2. Sri Sathya > >Sai Bada - > >> >5th from AL Guru AK 3. Sri Gautam Buddha - 7th from AL Buddha AK 4. > >> >Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu - 7th from AL Saturn AK > >> > > >> >I have no references from classical text to show how this > >occurs. My > >> >logic is: > >> >Arudha Lagna signifies the illusion which is born out of > >the seizing > >> >effect of Grahas. Seizing is to close one'e eyes to the > >whole picture > >> >(Truth) and thereby cause ignorance. The mind then > >misinterprets the > >> >whole picture by way of Arudha. > >> > > >> >Atmakaraka is the force that desires freedom. It propels us towards > >> >it. > >> > > >> >Atmakaraka in AL signify two opposite forces and therefore a > >conflict. > >> >Atmakaraka if strong and in its period, will cause a rift in the > >mind. > >> >It will start the questioning process. The questioning > >process shall > >> >succeed or not is dependent upon many factors. However, the march > >> >towards emotional maturity and understanding the limitedness of > >> >illusionary joys begins. > >> > > >> >If a harsh situation occurs for the native, then this > >process can be > >> >faster. > >> > > >> >This is a topic to be researched and I request others to post their > >> >views and if they have sastras know how, then, to share it. > >> > > >> >Thanks and Regards > >> >Bharat > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" > >> ><guruji@s...> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Jaya Jagannatha > >> >> Dear Bharat > >> >> Can you cite some examples of great souls who have the > >atmakaraka in > >> >arudha > >> >> lagna and have shown the path to immortality or moksha or some > >such > >> >great > >> >> activity? I shall be most grateful. > >> >> With best wishes and warm regards, > >> >> Sanjay Rath > >> >> * * * > >> >> Sri Jagannath CenterR > >> >> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > >> >> New Delhi 110060, India > >> >> <http://srath.com> http://srath.com < <http://srath.com/> > >> http://srath.com/> , +91-11-25717162 > >> >> * * * > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> bharateiya <bharateiya> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Namaskaar Shree Aruna > >> >> > >> >> Atmakaraka is a propelling graha towards knowledge of oneself. > >In > >> >> Arudha lagna it disspells the ignorance and the illusion. The > >result > >> >> is in whenever the associated period starts...the person > >> >will have to > >> >> come face with a difficult circumstance and way out will show > >the > >> >> person a great secret about life. > >> >> > >> >> The person will realize two sides of a coin is actually the > >> >same coin. > >> >> Such a person will be a great mediator and a diplomat. The > >native is > >> >> keen on Self Analysis and can recognize slowly and steadily > >> >the effect > >> >> of Maya within. > >> >> > >> >> Such a person can a good teacher and can guide others towards > >their > >> >> learning and solving life's matters. > >> >> > >> >> I would love to hear other's comments on this very interesting > >topic. > >> >> > >> >> Thanks and Regards > >> >> Bharat > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> vedic astrology, "a_srimantula" > >> >> <a_srimantula> wrote: > >> >> > Respected Gurus, > >> >> > > >> >> > In general what are the results of atmakaraka in Arudhalagna? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Thanking you all > >> >> > Aruna Srimantula > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Archives: <vedic astrology> > >> vedic astrology > >> >> > >> >> Group info: <vedic- > >astrology/info.html> > >> vedic astrology/info.html > >> >> > >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > >> >> > >> >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _____ > >> >> > >> >> Free antispam, antivirus and 1GB to save all your messages Only > >in > >> >> Mail: <http://in.mail.> > >http://in.mail. > >> >> > >> >> Archives: <vedic astrology> > >> vedic astrology > >> >> > >> >> Group info: <vedic- > >astrology/info.html> > >> vedic astrology/info.html > >> >> > >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > >> >> > >> >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _____ > >> >> > >> >> Links > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> * > >> >> <vedic astrology/> > >> vedic astrology/ > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> * > >> >> vedic astrology > >> >> > >> ><vedic astrology?subject=Uns > >> >ubscribe> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> * > >> >Terms of Service > >> >> < <> > >> > >> . > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >------------------------ Sponsor > >> >--------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? > >> >It is easier than you think. > >> >Click Here to meet a Child you can help. > >> > <http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM> > >> http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM > >> >------------------------------ > >> >-----~-> > >> > > >> >Archives: <vedic astrology> > >> vedic astrology > >> > > >> >Group info: <vedic- > >astrology/info.html> > >> vedic astrology/info.html > >> > > >> >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > >> > > >> >....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > >> > > >> > > >> > Links > >> > > >> vedic astrology/ > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------ Sponsor > >--------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? > >It is easier than you think. > >Click Here to meet a Child you can help. > >http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM > >------------------------------ > >-----~-> > > > > > > > > > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > >....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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