Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Dear Chandrashekarji, I have seen a horoscope of a native with leo lagna with jupiter in fifth house (Sagitarious). This native and his son do not see each other eye to eye. Hence, jupiter does not give good result in own house. Sunil >Chandrashekhar <boxdel >Neel <neelavannan_radha >CC: vedic astrology >Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles--to >Chandraji >Sun, 19 Sep 2004 01:13:35 +0530 > >Dear Neel, >There are different opinions about how to interpret Jupiter and Saturn. My >opinion is that stronger the Jupiter, greater the damage to the house he >tenants unless in own house. >Chandrashekhar. > >Neel wrote: > >>Dear Chandrashekarji, >> If Jupiter is in Leo, and Leo being Lagna does it mean it will >>cause harm to 1st house matters? >> >>As Jupiter gets dig bala in Lagna, it may be strong here. >> >>Regards >>Neel >>vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> >>wrote: >> > Dear Pradeep, >> > Leo being 5th house in Natural Zodiac, Jupiter there does cause >>harm to >> > that house indicating the Putra Bhava. He gets somewhat weak in Leo >>even >> > in natal chart but modification would be there depending his house >> > lordship no doubt. >> > Chandrashekhar. >> > >> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji >> > > >> > > I remember seeing discussions regarding simhashta when jupiter was >> > > crossing over to Leo,the previous year.Also as you have said >>Pisces >> > > is 8th from leo while Dhanu is 5th.But is it only for muhurtas w.r >> > > to transit or natal positions in charts as well? >> > > >> > > Respect >> > > Pradeep >> > > >> > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar >><boxdel> >> > > wrote: >> > > > Dear Pradeep, >> > > > This has more to do with Guru being Simhastha when it is bereft >>of >> > > Bala >> > > > and that is the reason Marriage muhurtas for that period are not >> > > > considered. That he becomes Avarohi would be more relevant in >> > > dasha >> > > > results no doubt. These are well established dictums and I do >>not >> > > > usually try to analyze them. A reason could be that from that >> > > position >> > > > Sun becomes, in a way, temporary enemy of Guru if we consider >>his >> > > > houses being 5th and 8th from Leo. >> > > > Chandrashekhar. >> > > > >> > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji >> > > > > >> > > > > You have written about jupiter losing strength in Leo.Is >>Jupiters >> > > > > movement out of its exaltation place the reason behind your >> > > > > statement.Also similar to a case which you have explained >> > > sometime >> > > > > back,will aspect of sun on this jupiter strengthen it. >> > > > > >> > > > > Respect >> > > > > Pradeep >> > > > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar >> > > <boxdel> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > Dear Vishnu, >> > > > > > The dictum rarely fails. >> > > > > > Chandrashekhar. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Vishnu Jandhyala wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || >> > > > > > > Dear Sri Chandrashekhar & Dhira, >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I have Jupiter in 2nd in moolatrikona. I would say I have >> > > seen >> > > > > the ugly >> > > > > > > side of it. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > warm regards, >> > > > > > > Vishnu >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Dhira, >> > > > > > > > In your case it is in Leo. Jupiter looses strength in >>Leo. >> > > Any >> > > > > > > > problems >> > > > > > > > in education? >> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dhira Krsna BCS wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It's in COVA that when Jupiter occupies 2nd house, it >> > > will >> > > > > not >> > > > > > > > count for >> > > > > > > > > karaka bhava nyasa. By the way, I have Jupiter in 2nd >> > > house. >> > > > > Any >> > > > > > > > > questions? >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Yours, >> > > > > > > > > Dhira Krsna dasa, >> > > > > > > > > Jyotishi >> > > > > > > > > http://www.radhadesh.com >> > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- >> > > > > astrology/info.html >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to >> > > > > > > > vedic astrology- >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri >>Krishnaarpanamastu || >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > * Sponsor* >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > click here >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >><http://us.ard./SIG=12981uep5/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011 >> > > > > >> > > >>76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095104540/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf >> > > > > 6/*http://companion.> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------- >>--- >> > > ---- >> > > > > ------- >> > > > > > > > > * Links* >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > * >> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology/ >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * To from this group, >>send an email >>to: >> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > <vedic astrology? >> > > > > subject=Un> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Your use of is >>subject to the >> >> > > > > Terms of >> > > > > > > > > Service <>. >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ===== >> > > > > > > ||Om akhandala mandalaa kaaram >> > > > > > > vyaaptam yena charaa charam >> > > > > > > tatpadam darsitam yena >> > > > > > > tasmai sri gurave namaha || >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Mail is new and improved - Check it out! >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Group info: vedic- >> > > > > astrology/info.html >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > * Sponsor* >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > click here >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >><http://us.ard./SIG=129ljuero/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011 >> > > > > >> > > >>76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095191778/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf >> > > > > 6/*http://companion.> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------- >>--- >> > > ---- >> > > > > ------- >> > > > > > > * Links* >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > * >> > > > > > > vedic astrology/ >> > > > > > > > > > > > > * To from this group, send an >>email to: >> > > > > > > vedic astrology >> > > > > > > <vedic astrology? >> > > > > subject=Un> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > * Your use of is subject to >>the >> > > Terms of >> > > > > > > Service <>. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Group info: vedic- >> > > astrology/info.html >> > > > > >> > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- >> > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > * Sponsor* >> > > > > >> > > > > click here >> > > > > >> > > >><http://us.ard./SIG=129opg3nt/M=298184.5285298.6392945.30011 >> > > >>76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095359996/A=2319498/R=0/SIG=11thfntf >> > > p/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298 >><http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298> >> > > <http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298 >><http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298>>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ----------------------------- >>--- >> > > ------- >> > > > > * Links* >> > > > > >> > > > > * >> > > > > vedic astrology/ >> > > > > > > > > * To from this group, send an email >>to: >> > > > > vedic astrology >> > > > > <vedic astrology? >> > > subject=Un> >> > > > > > > > > * Your use of is subject to the >> >>Terms of >> > > > > Service <>. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- >> >> > > >> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > * Sponsor* >> > > >> > > click here >> > > >><http://us.ard./SIG=129t3dcse/M=295196.4901138.6071305.300117 >>6/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095506110/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/ >>*http://companion.> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>------ >> > > * Links* >> > > >> > > * >> > > vedic astrology/ >> > > > > * >> > > vedic astrology >> > > <vedic astrology? >>subject=Un> >> > > > > * >>Terms of >> > > Service <>. >> > > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >> >> >> >> >>* Sponsor* >> >>click here >><http://us.ard./SIG=1290m0tcq/M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=grou\ ps/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095557857/A=2319498/R=0/SIG=11thfntfp/*http://www.netfli\ x.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298> >> >> >> >>------ >>* Links* >> >> * >> vedic astrology/ >> * >> vedic astrology >> >><vedic astrology?subject=Un> >> * Terms of >> Service <>. >> >> _______________ The new MSN Messenger! Keep in touch effortlessly! http://server1.msn.co.in/sp04/messengerchat/ Chat with any e-mail ID! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Dear Sunil Jain, How can you establish a "Jupiter conclusion" based on ONE SINGLE chart ? Let me just inform you that I have Leo lagna with Jupiter in Sag/5th and good relations with both my (now grown up) children from first marriage and very tight relations with those form my current/second mariage (teenagers +). I suggest that you look at many other factors related to Jupiter (aspects, argala etc) in many charts before reaching such any drastic conclusion... Besides, many (millions...) of sons don't see eye to eye with their fathers/parents regardless of Jupiters position ... /Jay Weiss http://www.alvicomm.com http://www.alvicomm.com/vedic.htm - "Sunil Jain" <jain_sunil27 <boxdel Cc: <vedic astrology> Tuesday, September 21, 2004 1:58 PM Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles--to Chandraji > Dear Chandrashekarji, > > I have seen a horoscope of a native with leo lagna with jupiter in fifth > house (Sagitarious). This native and his son do not see each other eye to > eye. Hence, jupiter does not give good result in own house. > > Sunil > >>Chandrashekhar <boxdel >>Neel <neelavannan_radha >>CC: vedic astrology >>Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles--to >>Chandraji >>Sun, 19 Sep 2004 01:13:35 +0530 >> >>Dear Neel, >>There are different opinions about how to interpret Jupiter and Saturn. My >>opinion is that stronger the Jupiter, greater the damage to the house he >>tenants unless in own house. >>Chandrashekhar. >> >>Neel wrote: >> >>>Dear Chandrashekarji, >>> If Jupiter is in Leo, and Leo being Lagna does it mean it will >>>cause harm to 1st house matters? >>> >>>As Jupiter gets dig bala in Lagna, it may be strong here. >>> >>>Regards >>>Neel >>>vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> >>>wrote: >>> > Dear Pradeep, >>> > Leo being 5th house in Natural Zodiac, Jupiter there does cause >>>harm to >>> > that house indicating the Putra Bhava. He gets somewhat weak in Leo >>>even >>> > in natal chart but modification would be there depending his house >>> > lordship no doubt. >>> > Chandrashekhar. >>> > >>> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: >>> > >>> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji >>> > > >>> > > I remember seeing discussions regarding simhashta when jupiter was >>> > > crossing over to Leo,the previous year.Also as you have said >>>Pisces >>> > > is 8th from leo while Dhanu is 5th.But is it only for muhurtas w.r >>> > > to transit or natal positions in charts as well? >>> > > >>> > > Respect >>> > > Pradeep >>> > > >>> > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar >>><boxdel> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > > Dear Pradeep, >>> > > > This has more to do with Guru being Simhastha when it is bereft >>>of >>> > > Bala >>> > > > and that is the reason Marriage muhurtas for that period are not >>> > > > considered. That he becomes Avarohi would be more relevant in >>> > > dasha >>> > > > results no doubt. These are well established dictums and I do >>>not >>> > > > usually try to analyze them. A reason could be that from that >>> > > position >>> > > > Sun becomes, in a way, temporary enemy of Guru if we consider >>>his >>> > > > houses being 5th and 8th from Leo. >>> > > > Chandrashekhar. >>> > > > >>> > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji >>> > > > > >>> > > > > You have written about jupiter losing strength in Leo.Is >>>Jupiters >>> > > > > movement out of its exaltation place the reason behind your >>> > > > > statement.Also similar to a case which you have explained >>> > > sometime >>> > > > > back,will aspect of sun on this jupiter strengthen it. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Respect >>> > > > > Pradeep >>> > > > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar >>> > > <boxdel> >>> > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > Dear Vishnu, >>> > > > > > The dictum rarely fails. >>> > > > > > Chandrashekhar. >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > Vishnu Jandhyala wrote: >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || >>> > > > > > > Dear Sri Chandrashekhar & Dhira, >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > I have Jupiter in 2nd in moolatrikona. I would say I have >>> > > seen >>> > > > > the ugly >>> > > > > > > side of it. >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > warm regards, >>> > > > > > > Vishnu >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > Dear Dhira, >>> > > > > > > > In your case it is in Leo. Jupiter looses strength in >>>Leo. >>> > > Any >>> > > > > > > > problems >>> > > > > > > > in education? >>> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > Dhira Krsna BCS wrote: >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > It's in COVA that when Jupiter occupies 2nd house, it >>> > > will >>> > > > > not >>> > > > > > > > count for >>> > > > > > > > > karaka bhava nyasa. By the way, I have Jupiter in 2nd >>> > > house. >>> > > > > Any >>> > > > > > > > > questions? >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > Yours, >>> > > > > > > > > Dhira Krsna dasa, >>> > > > > > > > > Jyotishi >>> > > > > > > > > http://www.radhadesh.com >>> > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- >>> > > > > astrology/info.html >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to >>> > > > > > > > vedic astrology- >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri >>>Krishnaarpanamastu || >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > * Sponsor* >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > click here >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > >>><http://us.ard./SIG=12981uep5/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011 >>> > > > > >>> > > >>>76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095104540/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf >>> > > > > 6/*http://companion.> >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > ------------------------- >>>--- >>> > > ---- >>> > > > > ------- >>> > > > > > > > > * Links* >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > * >>> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology/ >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * To from this group, >>>send an email >>>to: >>> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > <vedic astrology? >>> > > > > subject=Un> >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Your use of is >>>subject to the >>> >>> > > > > Terms of >>> > > > > > > > > Service <>. >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > ===== >>> > > > > > > ||Om akhandala mandalaa kaaram >>> > > > > > > vyaaptam yena charaa charam >>> > > > > > > tatpadam darsitam yena >>> > > > > > > tasmai sri gurave namaha || >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Mail is new and improved - Check it out! >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Group info: vedic- >>> > > > > astrology/info.html >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- >>> > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > * Sponsor* >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > click here >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > >>><http://us.ard./SIG=129ljuero/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011 >>> > > > > >>> > > >>>76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095191778/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf >>> > > > > 6/*http://companion.> >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > ------------------------- >>>--- >>> > > ---- >>> > > > > ------- >>> > > > > > > * Links* >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > * >>> > > > > > > vedic astrology/ >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > * To from this group, send >>> > > > > > > an >>>email to: >>> > > > > > > vedic astrology >>> > > > > > > <vedic astrology? >>> > > > > subject=Un> >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > * Your use of is subject >>> > > > > > > to >>>the >>> > > Terms of >>> > > > > > > Service <>. >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Group info: vedic- >>> > > astrology/info.html >>> > > > > >>> > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > * Sponsor* >>> > > > > >>> > > > > click here >>> > > > > >>> > > >>><http://us.ard./SIG=129opg3nt/M=298184.5285298.6392945.30011 >>> > > >>>76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095359996/A=2319498/R=0/SIG=11thfntf >>> > > p/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298 >>><http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298> >>> > > <http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298 >>><http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298>>> >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > ----------------------------- >>>--- >>> > > ------- >>> > > > > * Links* >>> > > > > >>> > > > > * >>> > > > > vedic astrology/ >>> > > > > > > > > * To from this group, send an email >>>to: >>> > > > > vedic astrology >>> > > > > <vedic astrology? >>> > > subject=Un> >>> > > > > > > > > * Your use of is subject to the >>> >>>Terms of >>> > > > > Service <>. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- >>> >>> > > >>> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > * Sponsor* >>> > > >>> > > click here >>> > > >>><http://us.ard./SIG=129t3dcse/M=295196.4901138.6071305.300117 >>>6/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095506110/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/ >>>*http://companion.> >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>------ >>> > > * Links* >>> > > >>> > > * >>> > > vedic astrology/ >>> > > > > * >>> > > vedic astrology >>> > > <vedic astrology? >>>subject=Un> >>> > > > > * >>>Terms of >>> > > Service <>. >>> > > >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>* Sponsor* >>> >>>click here >>><http://us.ard./SIG=1290m0tcq/M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=gro\ ups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095557857/A=2319498/R=0/SIG=11thfntfp/*http://www.netfl\ ix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298> >>> >>> >>> >>>------ >>>* Links* >>> >>> * >>> vedic astrology/ >>> * >>> vedic astrology >>> >>><vedic astrology?subject=Un> >>> * Terms of >>> Service <>. >>> >>> > > _______________ > The new MSN Messenger! Keep in touch effortlessly! > http://server1.msn.co.in/sp04/messengerchat/ Chat with any e-mail ID! > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > Links > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Dear Razdan, Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had been revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis and Acharyas. Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka from Purana which says: " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. Parashara is quoting no ordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave us the BPHS.Similarly Prithuysas is quoting his father the great Vrahmihir which gave us the Horasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a nameless sage (not sages as I said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect because the noun and verb is singular) would be like showing candle to the Sun. I dont think this discussion is going to serve any purpose. You are not prepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you are so much depending upon. By now it seems it is something casually said to which I attached more than necessary importance. You seem to have attained the role of some sort of a master in this group wanting your disciples to hunt for themselves what you hint at. But I dont think this is an Ashram. This is a forum of discussion where an academic discussion takes place openly without reservations. Or possibly there may be other reasons for you not to come out openly. The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a science. It has a method. Under this method several books have all along treated Jup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are based on this principle with modifications depending on its functionality, place, lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a crazy idea that Jupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( destroys the house it is placed in), it turns the science from a method into a madness. It will put doubts into the minds of all astrologists while interpreting its effects, particularly on young minds aspiring to learn jyotish. Already I see a discussion started on these lines on this group which in my opinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in a house, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good or bad. Some will associate it with good they had in that house and others with whatever bad they had. So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical, unauthenticated and unconventional "advices", you may do so as this is a free forum. But the least I can say is that this would be the greatest disservice to the field of Vedic Astrology. My humble suggestion to learned members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and research and use dependable commentators like Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would be fair to treat any advice seriously only if it is backed up by its source so as to make independent verification possible unless the author says it to be his own research/ experience. Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh). So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a headlines discussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The reference to Jup in the Second house discussion of BPHS has to be read in totality i.e all the three shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let me give a gist of each here First shaloka: Dhanesh in second, quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak (wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite. Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected by benefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. Nowhere is jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is known as a benefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to this shaloka. Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also posited in the same house. And if Mars is also placed with it, then the subject becomes wealthy. Period. This does not mean that if Mars is not there, Jupiter alone will harm the house. This is an implication which you are trying to make out probably to make your Muni's dictum hold good. Parashara never means it. He means to say that while a swagrahi jupiter in second is enough to make one rich but with Mars there it adds to ones wealth. Mark the sanskrit words "Vapi" meaning 'in addition". And then you are contradicting your own self since even without Mars, Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per your shaloka is not bad. So why Mars becomes necessary to support? As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting the shaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter on Kakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no shalok wanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good results. Sorry for the long mail. Regards Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on the subject. If that be so all those you treat as authorities, including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of Mantracharya) would also be reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by either referring to their names or saying precisely what the shloka says that is "so say Munis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not giving the name of the authority is I want people to read various texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka one quotes is the other reason. If you do not want to read commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning of his text that he is only telling what others have told before him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira. Maitreya also asks Parashara that as he has till now told principles of astrology on the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga in BPHS. Could you explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What is the reason for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2nd would not be capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not dispute knowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting without authority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why CH.43 shloka 48 tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why Jupiter by himself does not give Kakshya Vriddhi in longevity. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, As already informed I have already read the shalok quoted by you in support of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta, saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa. But please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish the thesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by the author, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it was said and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, the Shalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and dignifies the house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it is in while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit muinvra" i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is somebody else's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of this blatant theory after all? Chandarshekharji, you are making an important and revolutionary statement which if followed shall change the entire structure of Vedic Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all must have stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have therefore to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written by anybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does not mean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is written in sanskrit. At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not go into its reasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so respected in this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt. Gopeshkumar Oza and Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read commentaries and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as a learned Guru please favour all of us with the background information on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning why you are so convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives of human beings. I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it is common knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now holding Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives of these people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has very nicely handled this issue and replied the post point by point. Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I have already given the relevant shloka and others have given other shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the archives but it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka about Jupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny at least? You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know about their personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. Also check up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru in Lagna can do. I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read the list, many have agreed to what I have said from their own experience. I have also said that one has to apply the dictum in proper perspective to get correct results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all planets give good results in own house and all planets are capable of giving good results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that no principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be applied after taking into consideration all variables. The case mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house or Saturn who protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember right. The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana rakshati mandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in keeping with the dictum. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject all along but failed to get your source of conviction. We all agree that Jup too has its unfavourable positions and traits. We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is a functional malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that it gets KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend the argument further by making them good or bad. These are well established === message truncated === _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Dear Sunil, Yes this is a well known dictum which has to be applied with sense of proportion to see results for oneself. Chandrashekhar. Sunil Jain wrote: > Dear Chandrashekarji, > > I have seen a horoscope of a native with leo lagna with jupiter in > fifth house (Sagitarious). This native and his son do not see each > other eye to eye. Hence, jupiter does not give good result in own house. > > Sunil > >> Chandrashekhar <boxdel >> Neel <neelavannan_radha >> CC: vedic astrology >> Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles--to >> Chandraji >> Sun, 19 Sep 2004 01:13:35 +0530 >> >> Dear Neel, >> There are different opinions about how to interpret Jupiter and >> Saturn. My opinion is that stronger the Jupiter, greater the damage >> to the house he tenants unless in own house. >> Chandrashekhar. >> >> Neel wrote: >> >>> Dear Chandrashekarji, >>> If Jupiter is in Leo, and Leo being Lagna does it mean it will >>> cause harm to 1st house matters? >>> >>> As Jupiter gets dig bala in Lagna, it may be strong here. >>> >>> Regards >>> Neel >>> vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> >>> wrote: >>> > Dear Pradeep, >>> > Leo being 5th house in Natural Zodiac, Jupiter there does cause >>> harm to >>> > that house indicating the Putra Bhava. He gets somewhat weak in Leo >>> even >>> > in natal chart but modification would be there depending his house >>> > lordship no doubt. >>> > Chandrashekhar. >>> > >>> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: >>> > >>> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji >>> > > >>> > > I remember seeing discussions regarding simhashta when jupiter was >>> > > crossing over to Leo,the previous year.Also as you have said >>> Pisces >>> > > is 8th from leo while Dhanu is 5th.But is it only for muhurtas w.r >>> > > to transit or natal positions in charts as well? >>> > > >>> > > Respect >>> > > Pradeep >>> > > >>> > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar >>> <boxdel> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > > Dear Pradeep, >>> > > > This has more to do with Guru being Simhastha when it is bereft >>> of >>> > > Bala >>> > > > and that is the reason Marriage muhurtas for that period are not >>> > > > considered. That he becomes Avarohi would be more relevant in >>> > > dasha >>> > > > results no doubt. These are well established dictums and I do >>> not >>> > > > usually try to analyze them. A reason could be that from that >>> > > position >>> > > > Sun becomes, in a way, temporary enemy of Guru if we consider >>> his >>> > > > houses being 5th and 8th from Leo. >>> > > > Chandrashekhar. >>> > > > >>> > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji >>> > > > > >>> > > > > You have written about jupiter losing strength in Leo.Is >>> Jupiters >>> > > > > movement out of its exaltation place the reason behind your >>> > > > > statement.Also similar to a case which you have explained >>> > > sometime >>> > > > > back,will aspect of sun on this jupiter strengthen it. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Respect >>> > > > > Pradeep >>> > > > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar >>> > > <boxdel> >>> > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > Dear Vishnu, >>> > > > > > The dictum rarely fails. >>> > > > > > Chandrashekhar. >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > Vishnu Jandhyala wrote: >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || >>> > > > > > > Dear Sri Chandrashekhar & Dhira, >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > I have Jupiter in 2nd in moolatrikona. I would say I have >>> > > seen >>> > > > > the ugly >>> > > > > > > side of it. >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > warm regards, >>> > > > > > > Vishnu >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > Dear Dhira, >>> > > > > > > > In your case it is in Leo. Jupiter looses strength in >>> Leo. >>> > > Any >>> > > > > > > > problems >>> > > > > > > > in education? >>> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > Dhira Krsna BCS wrote: >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > It's in COVA that when Jupiter occupies 2nd house, it >>> > > will >>> > > > > not >>> > > > > > > > count for >>> > > > > > > > > karaka bhava nyasa. By the way, I have Jupiter in 2nd >>> > > house. >>> > > > > Any >>> > > > > > > > > questions? >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > Yours, >>> > > > > > > > > Dhira Krsna dasa, >>> > > > > > > > > Jyotishi >>> > > > > > > > > http://www.radhadesh.com >>> > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- >>> > > > > astrology/info.html >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to >>> > > > > > > > vedic astrology- >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri >>> Krishnaarpanamastu || >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > * Sponsor* >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > click here >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > >>> <http://us.ard./SIG=12981uep5/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011 >>> > > > > >>> > > >>> 76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095104540/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf >>> > > > > 6/*http://companion.> >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > ------------------------- >>> --- >>> > > ---- >>> > > > > ------- >>> > > > > > > > > * Links* >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > * >>> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology/ >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * To from this >>> group, send an email >>> to: >>> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > <vedic astrology? >>> > > > > subject=Un> >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Your use of >>> is subject to the >>> >>> > > > > Terms of >>> > > > > > > > > Service <>. >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > ===== >>> > > > > > > ||Om akhandala mandalaa kaaram >>> > > > > > > vyaaptam yena charaa charam >>> > > > > > > tatpadam darsitam yena >>> > > > > > > tasmai sri gurave namaha || >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Mail is new and improved - Check it out! >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Group info: vedic- >>> > > > > astrology/info.html >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- >>> > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > * Sponsor* >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > click here >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > >>> <http://us.ard./SIG=129ljuero/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011 >>> > > > > >>> > > >>> 76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095191778/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf >>> > > > > 6/*http://companion.> >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > ------------------------- >>> --- >>> > > ---- >>> > > > > ------- >>> > > > > > > * Links* >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > * >>> > > > > > > vedic astrology/ >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > * To from this group, >>> send an email to: >>> > > > > > > vedic astrology >>> > > > > > > <vedic astrology? >>> > > > > subject=Un> >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > * Your use of is >>> subject to the >>> > > Terms of >>> > > > > > > Service <>. >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Group info: vedic- >>> > > astrology/info.html >>> > > > > >>> > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > * Sponsor* >>> > > > > >>> > > > > click here >>> > > > > >>> > > >>> <http://us.ard./SIG=129opg3nt/M=298184.5285298.6392945.30011 >>> > > >>> 76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095359996/A=2319498/R=0/SIG=11thfntf >>> > > p/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298 >>> <http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298> >>> > > <http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298 >>> <http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298>>> >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > ----------------------------- >>> --- >>> > > ------- >>> > > > > * Links* >>> > > > > >>> > > > > * >>> > > > > vedic astrology/ >>> > > > > > > > > * To from this group, send an >>> email to: >>> > > > > vedic astrology >>> > > > > <vedic astrology? >>> > > subject=Un> >>> > > > > > > > > * Your use of is subject to >>> the >>> Terms of >>> > > > > Service <>. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- >>> >>> > > >>> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > * Sponsor* >>> > > >>> > > click here >>> > > >>> <http://us.ard./SIG=129t3dcse/M=295196.4901138.6071305.300117 >>> 6/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095506110/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/ >>> *http://companion.> >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ------ >>> > > * Links* >>> > > >>> > > * >>> > > vedic astrology/ >>> > > > > * >>> > > vedic astrology >>> > > <vedic astrology? >>> subject=Un> >>> > > > > * Your use of is subject to the >>> Terms of >>> > > Service <>. >>> > > >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> * Sponsor* >>> >>> click here >>> <http://us.ard./SIG=1290m0tcq/M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups\ /S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095557857/A=2319498/R=0/SIG=11thfntfp/*http://www.netflix.\ com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------ >>> >>> * Links* >>> >>> * >>> vedic astrology/ >>> * >>> vedic astrology >>> >>> <vedic astrology?subject=Un> >>> >>> * >>> Terms of >>> Service <>. >>> >>> > > _______________ > The new MSN Messenger! Keep in touch effortlessly! > http://server1.msn.co.in/sp04/messengerchat/ Chat with any e-mail ID! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 || Jaya Jagannath ||Dear Chandrashekhar, Thank you for the comment from the puranas. " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." Regards Sarajit - Chandrashekhar PNRazdan Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles--to Chandraji Dear Razdan,Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had been revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis and Acharyas. Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka from Purana which says: " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th."I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. Parashara is quoting no ordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave us the BPHS.Similarly Prithuysas is quoting his father the great Vrahmihir which gave us the Horasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a nameless sage (not sages as I said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect because the noun and verb is singular) would be like showing candle to the Sun. I dont think this discussion is going to serve any purpose. You are not prepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you are so much depending upon. By now it seems it is something casually said to which I attached more than necessary importance. You seem to have attained the role of some sort of a master in this group wanting your disciples to hunt for themselves what you hint at. But I dont think this is an Ashram. This is a forum of discussion where an academic discussion takes place openly without reservations. Or possibly there may be other reasons for you not to come out openly. The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a science. It has a method. Under this method several books have all along treated Jup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are based on this principle with modifications depending on its functionality, place, lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a crazy idea that Jupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( destroys the house it is placed in), it turns the science from a method into a madness. It will put doubts into the minds of all astrologists while interpreting its effects, particularly on young minds aspiring to learn jyotish. Already I see a discussion started on these lines on this group which in my opinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in a house, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good or bad. Some will associate it with good they had in that house and others with whatever bad they had. So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical, unauthenticated and unconventional "advices", you may do so as this is a free forum. But the least I can say is that this would be the greatest disservice to the field of Vedic Astrology. My humble suggestion to learned members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and research and use dependable commentators like Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would be fair to treat any advice seriously only if it is backed up by its source so as to make independent verification possible unless the author says it to be his own research/ experience. Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh). So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a headlines discussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The reference to Jup in the Second house discussion of BPHS has to be read in totality i.e all the three shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let me give a gist of each here First shaloka: Dhanesh in second, quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak (wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite. Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected by benefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. Nowhere is jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is known as a benefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to this shaloka. Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also posited in the same house. And if Mars is also placed with it, then the subject becomes wealthy. Period. This does not mean that if Mars is not there, Jupiter alone will harm the house. This is an implication which you are trying to make out probably to make your Muni's dictum hold good. Parashara never means it. He means to say that while a swagrahi jupiter in second is enough to make one rich but with Mars there it adds to ones wealth. Mark the sanskrit words "Vapi" meaning 'in addition". And then you are contradicting your own self since even without Mars, Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per your shaloka is not bad. So why Mars becomes necessary to support? As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting the shaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter on Kakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no shalok wanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good results. Sorry for the long mail. Regards Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on the subject. If that be so all those you treat as authorities, including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of Mantracharya) would also be reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by either referring to their names or saying precisely what the shloka says that is "so say Munis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not giving the name of the authority is I want people to read various texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka one quotes is the other reason. If you do not want to read commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning of his text that he is only telling what others have told before him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira. Maitreya also asks Parashara that as he has till now told principles of astrology on the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga in BPHS. Could you explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What is the reason for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2nd would not be capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not dispute knowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting without authority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why CH.43 shloka 48 tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why Jupiter by himself does not give Kakshya Vriddhi in longevity. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, As already informed I have already read the shalok quoted by you in support of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta, saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa. But please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish the thesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by the author, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it was said and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, the Shalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and dignifies the house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it is in while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit muinvra" i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is somebody else's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of this blatant theory after all? Chandarshekharji, you are making an important and revolutionary statement which if followed shall change the entire structure of Vedic Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all must have stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have therefore to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written by anybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does not mean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is written in sanskrit. At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not go into its reasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so respected in this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt. Gopeshkumar Oza and Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read commentaries and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as a learned Guru please favour all of us with the background information on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning why you are so convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives of human beings. I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it is common knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now holding Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives of these people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has very nicely handled this issue and replied the post point by point. Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I have already given the relevant shloka and others have given other shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the archives but it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka about Jupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny at least? You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know about their personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. Also check up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru in Lagna can do. I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read the list, many have agreed to what I have said from their own experience. I have also said that one has to apply the dictum in proper perspective to get correct results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all planets give good results in own house and all planets are capable of giving good results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that no principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be applied after taking into consideration all variables. The case mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house or Saturn who protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember right. The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana rakshati mandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in keeping with the dictum. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject all along but failed to get your source of conviction. We all agree that Jup too has its unfavourable positions and traits. We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is a functional malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that it gets KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend the argument further by making them good or bad. These are well established === message truncated === _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... 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Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 I have JUP in the 6th House, SAT in 5th House; I have very good relations with my 3 sons. With Jup. 6th House, I have had health Problems, only during the Sub-periods of Jupiter, But on the other aspects of Success over enemies etc. JUP has been favourable. Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan,Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had been revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis and Acharyas. Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka from Purana which says: " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th."I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. Parashara is quoting no ordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave us the BPHS.Similarly Prithuysas is quoting his father the great Vrahmihir which gave us the Horasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a nameless sage (not sages as I said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect because the noun and verb is singular) would be like showing candle to the Sun. I dont think this discussion is going to serve any purpose. You are not prepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you are so much depending upon. By now it seems it is something casually said to which I attached more than necessary importance. You seem to have attained the role of some sort of a master in this group wanting your disciples to hunt for themselves what you hint at. But I dont think this is an Ashram. This is a forum of discussion where an academic discussion takes place openly without reservations. Or possibly there may be other reasons for you not to come out openly. The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a science. It has a method. Under this method several books have all along treated Jup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are based on this principle with modifications depending on its functionality, place, lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a crazy idea that Jupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( destroys the house it is placed in), it turns the science from a method into a madness. It will put doubts into the minds of all astrologists while interpreting its effects, particularly on young minds aspiring to learn jyotish. Already I see a discussion started on these lines on this group which in my opinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in a house, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good or bad. Some will associate it with good they had in that house and others with whatever bad they had. So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical, unauthenticated and unconventional "advices", you may do so as this is a free forum. But the least I can say is that this would be the greatest disservice to the field of Vedic Astrology. My humble suggestion to learned members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and research and use dependable commentators like Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would be fair to treat any advice seriously only if it is backed up by its source so as to make independent verification possible unless the author says it to be his own research/ experience. Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh). So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a headlines discussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The reference to Jup in the Second house discussion of BPHS has to be read in totality i.e all the three shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let me give a gist of each here First shaloka: Dhanesh in second, quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak (wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite. Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected by benefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. Nowhere is jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is known as a benefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to this shaloka. Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also posited in the same house. And if Mars is also placed with it, then the subject becomes wealthy. Period. This does not mean that if Mars is not there, Jupiter alone will harm the house. This is an implication which you are trying to make out probably to make your Muni's dictum hold good. Parashara never means it. He means to say that while a swagrahi jupiter in second is enough to make one rich but with Mars there it adds to ones wealth. Mark the sanskrit words "Vapi" meaning 'in addition". And then you are contradicting your own self since even without Mars, Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per your shaloka is not bad. So why Mars becomes necessary to support? As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting the shaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter on Kakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no shalok wanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good results. Sorry for the long mail. Regards Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on the subject. If that be so all those you treat as authorities, including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of Mantracharya) would also be reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by either referring to their names or saying precisely what the shloka says that is "so say Munis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not giving the name of the authority is I want people to read various texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka one quotes is the other reason. If you do not want to read commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning of his text that he is only telling what others have told before him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira. Maitreya also asks Parashara that as he has till now told principles of astrology on the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga in BPHS. Could you explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What is the reason for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2nd would not be capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not dispute knowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting without authority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why CH.43 shloka 48 tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why Jupiter by himself does not give Kakshya Vriddhi in longevity. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, As already informed I have already read the shalok quoted by you in support of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta, saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa. But please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish the thesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by the author, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it was said and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, the Shalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and dignifies the house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it is in while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit muinvra" i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is somebody else's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of this blatant theory after all? Chandarshekharji, you are making an important and revolutionary statement which if followed shall change the entire structure of Vedic Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all must have stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have therefore to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written by anybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does not mean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is written in sanskrit. At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not go into its reasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so respected in this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt. Gopeshkumar Oza and Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read commentaries and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as a learned Guru please favour all of us with the background information on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning why you are so convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives of human beings. I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it is common knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now holding Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives of these people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has very nicely handled this issue and replied the post point by point. Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I have already given the relevant shloka and others have given other shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the archives but it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka about Jupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny at least? You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know about their personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. Also check up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru in Lagna can do. I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read the list, many have agreed to what I have said from their own experience. I have also said that one has to apply the dictum in proper perspective to get correct results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all planets give good results in own house and all planets are capable of giving good results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that no principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be applied after taking into consideration all variables. The case mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house or Saturn who protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember right. The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana rakshati mandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in keeping with the dictum. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject all along but failed to get your source of conviction. We all agree that Jup too has its unfavourable positions and traits. We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is a functional malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that it gets KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend the argument further by making them good or bad. These are well established === message truncated === _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... alternate email is raichuranant (AT) indiatimes (DOT) com:Location Bombay India vote. - Register online to vote today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekharji, Could you please tell me from which purana the quoted lines were taken? I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can not really comment on it. But with all due respects to the author, Parasara often thinks differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my admiration for the great master, who thought of a million profound ways to elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather than as a chamatkar, is infinitely higher. Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the powerful sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana sthana) on lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled times as the exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted venus (4th & 11th lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this information, and want only to selectively assess the chart by focusing on Jupiter in lagna, I think we are not being true either to the Veda vidya or to ourselves. I think, here something greater than ourselves, our petty discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth is revealed to us through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if we want to look at only one house and only one planet, I think we are doing our best not to elicit the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me, Sir, honestly do you, with your formidable intellectual stature, limit yourself thus and not adopt an integrated approach for evaluating a chart? As far as Duryodhana's chart is concerned, My tentative feeling is that he had Jupiter debilitated in 10th for aries lagna, with Mars in lagna, Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun in cancer, Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along with saturn. How is it? If any one has more information, it would be fun to discuss it. I have not thought about other charts. But if someone else had, I would like to see them. Regards, Lakshmi Sarajit Poddar <sarajit (AT) (DOT) org> wrote: || Jaya Jagannath ||Dear Chandrashekhar, Thank you for the comment from the puranas. " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." Regards Sarajit - Chandrashekhar PNRazdan Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles--to Chandraji Dear Razdan,Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had been revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis and Acharyas. Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka from Purana which says: " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th."I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. Parashara is quoting no ordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave us the BPHS.Similarly Prithuysas is quoting his father the great Vrahmihir which gave us the Horasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a nameless sage (not sages as I said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect because the noun and verb is singular) would be like showing candle to the Sun. I dont think this discussion is going to serve any purpose. You are not prepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you are so much depending upon. By now it seems it is something casually said to which I attached more than necessary importance. You seem to have attained the role of some sort of a master in this group wanting your disciples to hunt for themselves what you hint at. But I dont think this is an Ashram. This is a forum of discussion where an academic discussion takes place openly without reservations. Or possibly there may be other reasons for you not to come out openly. The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a science. It has a method. Under this method several books have all along treated Jup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are based on this principle with modifications depending on its functionality, place, lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a crazy idea that Jupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( destroys the house it is placed in), it turns the science from a method into a madness. It will put doubts into the minds of all astrologists while interpreting its effects, particularly on young minds aspiring to learn jyotish. Already I see a discussion started on these lines on this group which in my opinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in a house, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good or bad. Some will associate it with good they had in that house and others with whatever bad they had. So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical, unauthenticated and unconventional "advices", you may do so as this is a free forum. But the least I can say is that this would be the greatest disservice to the field of Vedic Astrology. My humble suggestion to learned members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and research and use dependable commentators like Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would be fair to treat any advice seriously only if it is backed up by its source so as to make independent verification possible unless the author says it to be his own research/ experience. Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh). So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a headlines discussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The reference to Jup in the Second house discussion of BPHS has to be read in totality i.e all the three shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let me give a gist of each here First shaloka: Dhanesh in second, quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak (wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite. Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected by benefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. Nowhere is jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is known as a benefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to this shaloka. Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also posited in the same house. And if Mars is also placed with it, then the subject becomes wealthy. Period. This does not mean that if Mars is not there, Jupiter alone will harm the house. This is an implication which you are trying to make out probably to make your Muni's dictum hold good. Parashara never means it. He means to say that while a swagrahi jupiter in second is enough to make one rich but with Mars there it adds to ones wealth. Mark the sanskrit words "Vapi" meaning 'in addition". And then you are contradicting your own self since even without Mars, Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per your shaloka is not bad. So why Mars becomes necessary to support? As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting the shaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter on Kakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no shalok wanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good results. Sorry for the long mail. Regards Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on the subject. If that be so all those you treat as authorities, including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of Mantracharya) would also be reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by either referring to their names or saying precisely what the shloka says that is "so say Munis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not giving the name of the authority is I want people to read various texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka one quotes is the other reason. If you do not want to read commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning of his text that he is only telling what others have told before him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira. Maitreya also asks Parashara that as he has till now told principles of astrology on the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga in BPHS. Could you explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What is the reason for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2nd would not be capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not dispute knowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting without authority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why CH.43 shloka 48 tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why Jupiter by himself does not give Kakshya Vriddhi in longevity. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, As already informed I have already read the shalok quoted by you in support of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta, saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa. But please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish the thesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by the author, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it was said and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, the Shalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and dignifies the house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it is in while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit muinvra" i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is somebody else's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of this blatant theory after all? Chandarshekharji, you are making an important and revolutionary statement which if followed shall change the entire structure of Vedic Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all must have stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have therefore to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written by anybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does not mean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is written in sanskrit. At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not go into its reasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so respected in this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt. Gopeshkumar Oza and Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read commentaries and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as a learned Guru please favour all of us with the background information on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning why you are so convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives of human beings. I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it is common knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now holding Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives of these people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has very nicely handled this issue and replied the post point by point. Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I have already given the relevant shloka and others have given other shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the archives but it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka about Jupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny at least? You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know about their personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. Also check up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru in Lagna can do. I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read the list, many have agreed to what I have said from their own experience. I have also said that one has to apply the dictum in proper perspective to get correct results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all planets give good results in own house and all planets are capable of giving good results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that no principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be applied after taking into consideration all variables. The case mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house or Saturn who protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember right. The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana rakshati mandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in keeping with the dictum. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject all along but failed to get your source of conviction. We all agree that Jup too has its unfavourable positions and traits. We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is a functional malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that it gets KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend the argument further by making them good or bad. These are well established === message truncated === _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... 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Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Namaste everyone, I have a chart where vakri Guru (alone) in 5th in tula have given the native two good sons. I also have a chart where Guru (conjoined with chandra and shukra) is in 2nd house in simha, and the native is a multi-millionaire. I have a third chart where Guru is in kanya (alone) in 10th and the native was a big industrialist. I have a fourth chart where vakri Guru is in kanya (alone) in 2nd house and the native is a billionaire. I have a fifth chart where Guru is in simha (alone) in 10th house and the native presently stands a good chance of occupying the highest office in United States. I have a sixth chart where Guru is in tula (alone) in 10th house and the native has been a US presidential candidate for 4 times. I have a seventh chart where Guru is conjoined Mangal in Makara in 5th house and the native is a father of two children (son and daughter). I am sure that if all of us were to go through the charts in our collection, we would find so many of them where Guru's occupation of a bhava could not have made the native as successful in the respective areas of life, if we were to go by the theory of Guru spoiling the occupied bhava. Therefore, without taking sides, I would like to urge further research on this theory of Guru hurting the house he occupies, before coming to any conclusions. May Sri Vishnu bless us all, Reema. vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekharji, > > > > Could you please tell me from which purana the quoted lines were taken? > > > > I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can not really comment on it. But with all due respects to the author, Parasara often thinks differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my admiration for the great master, who thought of a million profound ways to elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather than as a chamatkar, is infinitely higher. > > > > Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the powerful sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana sthana) on lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled times as the exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted venus (4th & 11th lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this information, and want only to selectively assess the chart by focusing on Jupiter in lagna, I think we are not being true either to the Veda vidya or to ourselves. I think, here something greater than ourselves, our petty discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth is revealed to us through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if we want to look at only one house and only one planet, I think we are doing our best not to elicit the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me, Sir, honestly do you, with your formidable intellectual stature, limit yourself thus and not adopt an integrated approach for evaluating a chart? > > > > As far as Duryodhana's chart is concerned, My tentative feeling is that he had Jupiter debilitated in 10th for aries lagna, with Mars in lagna, Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun in cancer, Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along with saturn. How is it? If any one has more information, it would be fun to discuss it. > > > > I have not thought about other charts. But if someone else had, I would like to see them. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > Sarajit Poddar <sarajit@s...> wrote:|| Jaya Jagannath || > Dear Chandrashekhar, > > Thank you for the comment from the puranas. > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." > > Regards > Sarajit > - > Chandrashekhar > PNRazdan > Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology > Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles-- to Chandraji > > > Dear Razdan, > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had been revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis and Acharyas. > > Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka from Purana which says: > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." > > I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for. > Chandrashekhar. > > PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his father the great Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect because the noun andverb is singular) would be like showing candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is going to serve any purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is something casually said to which I attachedmore than necessary importance. You seem to have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in this group wanting your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint at. But I dont think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion where an academic discussion takes placeopenly without reservations. Or possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to come out > openly.The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a science. Ithas a method. Under this method several books have all along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are based on thisprinciple with modifications depending on its functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a crazy idea thatJupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( destroys the house it isplaced in), it turns the science from a method into a madness. It willput doubts into the minds of all astrologists while interpreting itseffects, particularly on young minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a discussion started on these lines on this group which in myopinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good or bad. Some willassociate it with good they had in that house and others with whateverbad they had.So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical,unauthenticated and > unconventional "advices", you may do so as this isa free forum. But the least I can say is that this would be thegreatest disservice to the field of Vedic Astrology.My humble suggestion to learned members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and research and use dependable commentatorslike Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would be fair to treat anyadvice seriously only if it is backed up by its source so as to makeindependent verification possible unless the author says it to be hisown research/ experience. Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh).So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of BPHS has to be read in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst shaloka: Dhanesh in second, > quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak(wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite.Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is known as abenefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to this shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed with it, then the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not mean that if Mars is not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house. This is an implication which you are trying to make outprobably to make your Muni's dictum hold good. Parashara never meansit. He means to say that while a swagrahi jupiter in second is enoughto make one rich but with Mars there it adds to ones wealth. Mark thesanskrit words "Vapi" meaning 'in addition".And then you are contradicting your own self since even without Mars,Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per > your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes necessary to support? As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting theshaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Razdan,I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on the subject.If that be so all those you treat as authorities, including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by either referring totheir names or saying precisely what the shloka says that is "so sayMunis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not giving the name of theauthority is I want people to read various texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to read commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning > of his text that he is only telling whatothers have told before him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira.Maitreya also asks Parashara that as he has till now told principlesof astrology on the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga inBPHS.Could you explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What isthe reason for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2ndwould not be capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why > Jupiter by himself doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have already read the shalok quoted by you insupport of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa.But please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish thethesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by theauthor, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it wassaid and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, theShalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and dignifies > > the > > house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it is > > in > > while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit > > muinvra" > > i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is somebodyelse's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of thisblatant theory after all?Chandarshekharji, you are making an important and revolutionarystatement which if followed shall change the entire structure of > > Vedic > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all must > > have > > stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have > > therefore > > to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written byanybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is > > written > > in sanskrit.At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not go into itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so respected > > in > > this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt.Gopeshkumar Oza and Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read > > commentaries > > and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as a learned Guru please favour all of us with the backgroundinformation on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning whyyou are so convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives ofhuman beings.I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it is > > common > > knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now > > holding > > Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives of > > these > > people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has verynicely handled this issue and replied the post point by point.Pran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Razdan,I have already given the relevant shloka and others have given > > other > > shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the archivesbut it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny at least?You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know abouttheir personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. Also > > check > > up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru inLagna can do.I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read the list, manyhave agreed to what I have said from their own experience. I have alsosaid that one has to apply the dictum in proper perspective to get > > correct > > results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all planetsgive good results in own house and all planets are capable of giving > > good > > results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that no > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be appliedafter taking into consideration all variables.The case mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house orSaturn who protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember > > right. > > The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana rakshatimandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in keeping with thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject all along but > > failed > > > > to > > get your source of conviction.We all agree that Jup too has its unfavourable positions and > > traits. > > We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is a > > functional > > malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that it > > gets > > KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend the > > argument > > further by making them good or bad. These are well established > > === message truncated === _______________________________Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > vedic astrology/ > > > vedic astrology > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Hi All, I have Retrograded Jupiter in Second house which is Sagittarius. This Jupiter has the aspects of Mars, Venus and Moon from eigth house. I am doing very well financially. Regards, Rama Krishna vedic astrology, sridhar k <kopparsa> wrote: > We are over 1000 members in the group. Each one of has JUPITER in some house, and Saturn in one House. Why not each send his/her experience so that we can have a statistical study on the DICTUM JUPITER SPOILS the House he Resides in. Saturn Protects the House in which he resides. > I have JUP in the 6th House, SAT in 5th House; > I have very good relations with my 3 sons. With Jup. 6th House, I have had health Problems, only during the Sub-periods of Jupiter, But on the other aspects of Success over enemies etc. JUP has been favourable. > > > > Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Razdan, > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had been revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis and Acharyas. > > Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka from Purana which says: > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." > > I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for. > Chandrashekhar. > > PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his father the great Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect because the noun andverb is singular) would be like showing candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is going to serve any purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is something casually said to which I attachedmore than necessary importance. You seem to have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in this group wanting your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint at. But I dont think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion where an academic discussion takes placeopenly without reservations. Or possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to come out > openly.The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a science. Ithas a method. Under this method several books have all along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are based on thisprinciple with modifications depending on its functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a crazy idea thatJupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( destroys the house it isplaced in), it turns the science from a method into a madness. It willput doubts into the minds of all astrologists while interpreting itseffects, particularly on young minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a discussion started on these lines on this group which in myopinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good or bad. Some willassociate it with good they had in that house and others with whateverbad they had.So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical,unauthenticated and > unconventional "advices", you may do so as this isa free forum. But the least I can say is that this would be thegreatest disservice to the field of Vedic Astrology.My humble suggestion to learned members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and research and use dependable commentatorslike Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would be fair to treat anyadvice seriously only if it is backed up by its source so as to makeindependent verification possible unless the author says it to be hisown research/ experience. Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh).So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of BPHS has to be read in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst shaloka: Dhanesh in second, > quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak(wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite.Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is known as abenefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to this shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed with it, then the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not mean that if Mars is not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house. This is an implication which you are trying to make outprobably to make your Muni's dictum hold good. Parashara never meansit. He means to say that while a swagrahi jupiter in second is enoughto make one rich but with Mars there it adds to ones wealth. Mark thesanskrit words "Vapi" meaning 'in addition".And then you are contradicting your own self since even without Mars,Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per > your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes necessary to support? As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting theshaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Razdan,I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on the subject.If that be so all those you treat as authorities, including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by either referring totheir names or saying precisely what the shloka says that is "so sayMunis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not giving the name of theauthority is I want people to read various texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to read commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning > of his text that he is only telling whatothers have told before him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira.Maitreya also asks Parashara that as he has till now told principlesof astrology on the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga inBPHS.Could you explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What isthe reason for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2ndwould not be capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why > Jupiter by himself doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have already read the shalok quoted by you insupport of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa.But please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish thethesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by theauthor, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it wassaid and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, theShalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and dignifies > > the > > house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it is > > in > > while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit > > muinvra" > > i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is somebodyelse's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of thisblatant theory after all?Chandarshekharji, you are making an important and revolutionarystatement which if followed shall change the entire structure of > > Vedic > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all must > > have > > stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have > > therefore > > to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written byanybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is > > written > > in sanskrit.At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not go into itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so respected > > in > > this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt.Gopeshkumar Oza and Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read > > commentaries > > and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as a learned Guru please favour all of us with the backgroundinformation on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning whyyou are so convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives ofhuman beings.I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it is > > common > > knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now > > holding > > Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives of > > these > > people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has verynicely handled this issue and replied the post point by point.Pran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Razdan,I have already given the relevant shloka and others have given > > other > > shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the archivesbut it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny at least?You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know abouttheir personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. Also > > check > > up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru inLagna can do.I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read the list, manyhave agreed to what I have said from their own experience. I have alsosaid that one has to apply the dictum in proper perspective to get > > correct > > results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all planetsgive good results in own house and all planets are capable of giving > > good > > results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that no > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be appliedafter taking into consideration all variables.The case mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house orSaturn who protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember > > right. > > The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana rakshatimandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in keeping with thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject all along but > > failed > > > > to > > get your source of conviction.We all agree that Jup too has its unfavourable positions and > > traits. > > We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is a > > functional > > malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that it > > gets > > KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend the > > argument > > further by making them good or bad. These are well established > > === message truncated === _______________________________Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > vedic astrology/ > > > vedic astrology > > Terms of Service. > > > > alternate email is raichuranant@i...:Location Bombay India > > > > vote. - Register online to vote today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Namaste everyone, I have Retrograded Jupiter in Second house which is Sagittarius with the aspects of Mars, Venus and Moon from eigth house. So far I am doing very well financially. Regards,Rama Krishnareema_sriganesh <reema_sriganesh > wrote: Namaste everyone,I have a chart where vakri Guru (alone) in 5th in tula have given the native two good sons. I also have a chart where Guru (conjoined with chandra and shukra) is in 2nd house in simha, and the native is a multi-millionaire. I have a third chart where Guru is in kanya (alone) in 10th and the native was a big industrialist. I have a fourth chart where vakri Guru is in kanya (alone) in 2nd house and the native is a billionaire. I have a fifth chart where Guru is in simha (alone) in 10th house and the native presently stands a good chance of occupying the highest office in United States. I have a sixth chart where Guru is in tula (alone) in 10th house and the native has been a US presidential candidate for 4 times. I have a seventh chart where Guru is conjoined Mangal in Makara in 5th house and the native is a father of two children (son and daughter). I am sure that if all of us were to go through the charts in our collection, we would find so many of them where Guru's occupation of a bhava could not have made the native as successful in the respective areas of life, if we were to go by the theory of Guru spoiling the occupied bhava. Therefore, without taking sides, I would like to urge further research on this theory of Guru hurting the house he occupies, before coming to any conclusions.May Sri Vishnu bless us all,Reema.--- In vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:> > Om Gurave Namah> > > > Namaste Chandrasekharji,> > > > Could you please tell me from which purana the quoted lines were taken? > > > > I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can not really comment on it. But with all due respects to the author, Parasara often thinks differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my admiration for the great master, who thought of a million profound ways to elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather than as a chamatkar, is infinitely higher. > > > > Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the powerful sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana sthana) on lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled times as the exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted venus (4th & 11th lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this information, and want only to selectively assess the chart by focusing on Jupiter in lagna, I think we are not being true either to the Veda vidya or to ourselves. I think, here something greater than ourselves, our petty discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth is revealed to us through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if we want to look at only one house and only one planet, I think we are doing our best not to elicit the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me, Sir, honestly do you, with your formidable intellectual stature, limit yourself thus and not adopt an integrated approach for evaluating a chart?> > > > As far as Duryodhana's chart is concerned, My tentative feeling is that he had Jupiter debilitated in 10th for aries lagna, with Mars in lagna, Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun in cancer, Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along with saturn. How is it? If any one has more information, it would be fun to discuss it.> > > > I have not thought about other charts. But if someone else had, I would like to see them.> > > > Regards,> > Lakshmi> > > > > Sarajit Poddar <sarajit@s...> wrote:|| Jaya Jagannath ||> Dear Chandrashekhar,> > Thank you for the comment from the puranas.> " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th."> > Regards> Sarajit> - > Chandrashekhar > PNRazdan > Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology > Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM> Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles--to Chandraji> > > Dear Razdan,> > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had been revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis and Acharyas.> > Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka from Purana which says:> > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th."> > I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for.> Chandrashekhar.> > PNRazdan wrote:> > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his father the great Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect because the noun andverb is singular) would be like showing candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is going to serve any purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is something casually said to which I attachedmore than necessary importance. You seem to have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in this group wanting your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint at. But I dont think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion where an academic discussion takes placeopenly without reservations. Or possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to come out> openly.The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a science. Ithas a method. Under this method several books have all along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are based on thisprinciple with modifications depending on its functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a crazy idea thatJupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( destroys the house it isplaced in), it turns the science from a method into a madness. It willput doubts into the minds of all astrologists while interpreting itseffects, particularly on young minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a discussion started on these lines on this group which in myopinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good or bad. Some willassociate it with good they had in that house and others with whateverbad they had.So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical,unauthenticated and> unconventional "advices", you may do so as this isa free forum. But the least I can say is that this would be thegreatest disservice to the field of Vedic Astrology.My humble suggestion to learned members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and research and use dependable commentatorslike Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would be fair to treat anyadvice seriously only if it is backed up by its source so as to makeindependent verification possible unless the author says it to be hisown research/ experience. Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends(not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh).So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of BPHS has to be read in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst shaloka: Dhanesh in second,> quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak(wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite.Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is known as abenefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to this shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed with it, then the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not mean that if Mars is not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house. This is an implication which you are trying to make outprobably to make your Muni's dictum hold good. Parashara never meansit. He means to say that while a swagrahi jupiter in second is enoughto make one rich but with Mars there it adds to ones wealth. Mark thesanskrit words "Vapi" meaning 'in addition".And then you are contradicting your own self since even without Mars,Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per> your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes necessary to support?As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting theshaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Razdan,I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on the subject.If that be so all those you treat as authorities, including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by either referring totheir names or saying precisely what the shloka says that is "so sayMunis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not giving the name of theauthority is I want people to read various texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to read commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning> of his text that he is only telling whatothers have told before him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira.Maitreya also asks Parashara that as he has till now told principlesof astrology on the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga inBPHS.Could you explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What isthe reason for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2ndwould not be capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why> Jupiter by himself doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have already read the shalok quoted by you insupport of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa.But please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish thethesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by theauthor, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it wassaid and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, theShalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and dignifies > > the > > house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it is > > in > > while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit > > muinvra" > > i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is somebodyelse's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of thisblatant theory after all?Chandarshekharji, you are making an important and revolutionarystatement which if followed shall change the entire structure of > > Vedic > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all must > > have > > stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have > > therefore > > to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written byanybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is > > written > > in sanskrit.At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not go into itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so respected > > in > > this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt.Gopeshkumar Oza and Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read > > commentaries > > and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as a learned Guru please favour all of us with the backgroundinformation on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning whyyou are so convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives ofhuman beings.I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it is > > common > > knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now > > holding > > Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives of > > these > > people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has verynicely handled this issue and replied the post point by point.Pran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Razdan,I have already given the relevant shloka and others have given > > other > > shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the archivesbut it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny at least?You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know abouttheir personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. Also > > check > > up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru inLagna can do.I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read the list, manyhave agreed to what I have said from their own experience. I have alsosaid that one has to apply the dictum in proper perspective to get > > correct > > results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all planetsgive good results in own house and all planets are capable of giving > > good > > results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that no > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be appliedafter taking into consideration all variables.The case mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house orSaturn who protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember > > right. > > The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana rakshatimandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in keeping with thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject all along but > > failed > > > > to > > get your source of conviction.We all agree that Jup too has its unfavourable positions and > > traits. > > We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is a > > functional > > malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that it > > gets > > KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend the > > argument > > further by making them good or bad. These are well established > > === message truncated === _______________________________Do you ?Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > Sponsor> > > > Links> > > vedic astrology/> > To from this group, send an email to:> vedic astrology> > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Dear Sarajit, You are too kind. Chandrashekhar. Sarajit Poddar wrote: || Jaya Jagannath || Dear Chandrashekhar, Thank you for the comment from the puranas. " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." Regards Sarajit ----- Original Message ----- Chandrashekhar To: PNRazdan Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM Subject: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles--to Chandraji Dear Razdan, Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had been revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis and Acharyas. Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka from Purana which says: " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. Parashara is quoting no ordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave us the BPHS.Similarly Prithuysas is quoting his father the great Vrahmihir which gave us the Horasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a nameless sage (not sages as I said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect because the noun and verb is singular) would be like showing candle to the Sun. I dont think this discussion is going to serve any purpose. You are not prepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you are so much depending upon. By now it seems it is something casually said to which I attached more than necessary importance. You seem to have attained the role of some sort of a master in this group wanting your disciples to hunt for themselves what you hint at. But I dont think this is an Ashram. This is a forum of discussion where an academic discussion takes place openly without reservations. Or possibly there may be other reasons for you not to come out openly. The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a science. It has a method. Under this method several books have all along treated Jup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are based on this principle with modifications depending on its functionality, place, lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a crazy idea that Jupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( destroys the house it is placed in), it turns the science from a method into a madness. It will put doubts into the minds of all astrologists while interpreting its effects, particularly on young minds aspiring to learn jyotish. Already I see a discussion started on these lines on this group which in my opinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in a house, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good or bad. Some will associate it with good they had in that house and others with whatever bad they had. So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical, unauthenticated and unconventional "advices", you may do so as this is a free forum. But the least I can say is that this would be the greatest disservice to the field of Vedic Astrology. My humble suggestion to learned members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and research and use dependable commentators like Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would be fair to treat any advice seriously only if it is backed up by its source so as to make independent verification possible unless the author says it to be his own research/ experience. Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh). So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a headlines discussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The reference to Jup in the Second house discussion of BPHS has to be read in totality i.e all the three shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let me give a gist of each here First shaloka: Dhanesh in second, quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak (wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite. Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected by benefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. Nowhere is jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is known as a benefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to this shaloka. Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also posited in the same house. And if Mars is also placed with it, then the subject becomes wealthy. Period. This does not mean that if Mars is not there, Jupiter alone will harm the house. This is an implication which you are trying to make out probably to make your Muni's dictum hold good. Parashara never means it. He means to say that while a swagrahi jupiter in second is enough to make one rich but with Mars there it adds to ones wealth. Mark the sanskrit words "Vapi" meaning 'in addition". And then you are contradicting your own self since even without Mars, Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per your shaloka is not bad. So why Mars becomes necessary to support? As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting the shaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter on Kakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no shalok wanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good results. Sorry for the long mail. Regards Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on the subject. If that be so all those you treat as authorities, including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of Mantracharya) would also be reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by either referring to their names or saying precisely what the shloka says that is "so say Munis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not giving the name of the authority is I want people to read various texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka one quotes is the other reason. If you do not want to read commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning of his text that he is only telling what others have told before him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira. Maitreya also asks Parashara that as he has till now told principles of astrology on the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga in BPHS. Could you explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What is the reason for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2nd would not be capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not dispute knowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting without authority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why CH.43 shloka 48 tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why Jupiter by himself does not give Kakshya Vriddhi in longevity. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, As already informed I have already read the shalok quoted by you in support of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta, saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa. But please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish the thesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by the author, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it was said and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, the Shalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and dignifies the house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it is in while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit muinvra" i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is somebody else's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of this blatant theory after all? Chandarshekharji, you are making an important and revolutionary statement which if followed shall change the entire structure of Vedic Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all must have stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have therefore to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written by anybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does not mean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is written in sanskrit. At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not go into its reasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so respected in this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt. Gopeshkumar Oza and Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read commentaries and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as a learned Guru please favour all of us with the background information on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning why you are so convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives of human beings. I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it is common knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now holding Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives of these people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has very nicely handled this issue and replied the post point by point. Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I have already given the relevant shloka and others have given other shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the archives but it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka about Jupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny at least? You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know about their personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. Also check up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru in Lagna can do. I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read the list, many have agreed to what I have said from their own experience. I have also said that one has to apply the dictum in proper perspective to get correct results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all planets give good results in own house and all planets are capable of giving good results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that no principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be applied after taking into consideration all variables. The case mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house or Saturn who protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember right. The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana rakshati mandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in keeping with the dictum. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject all along but failed to get your source of conviction. We all agree that Jup too has its unfavourable positions and traits. We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is a functional malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that it gets KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend the argument further by making them good or bad. These are well established === message truncated === _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Dear Sridhar, You appear to be getting the results in keeping with the dictum. Your idea about testing out the dictum is good. Chandrashekhar. sridhar k wrote: We are over 1000 members in the group. Each one of has JUPITER in some house, and Saturn in one House. Why not each send his/her experience so that we can have a statistical study on the DICTUM JUPITER SPOILS the House he Resides in. Saturn Protects the House in which he resides. I have JUP in the 6th House, SAT in 5th House; I have very good relations with my 3 sons. With Jup. 6th House, I have had health Problems, only during the Sub-periods of Jupiter, But on the other aspects of Success over enemies etc. JUP has been favourable. Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Ad hyayaMaitreyaclearlysaysthatParasharahasgivenopinionsofmanyRishisandAcharyas.SosayingthatParasharaonlytoldwhathadbeenrevealedtohimbyLordBrahmawouldbeshowingdisrespecttotheGreatsagewhohadthemagnanimitytogivecredittoother Rishis and Acharyas. Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka from Purana which says: " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. Parashara is quoting no ordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave us the BPHS.Similarly Prithuysas is quoting his father the great Vrahmihir which gave us the Horasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a nameless sage (not sages as I said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect because the noun and verb is singular) would be like showing candle to the Sun. I dont think this discussion is going to serve any purpose. You are not prepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you are so much depending upon. By now it seems it is something casually said to which I attached more than necessary importance. You seem to have attained the role of some sort of a master in this group wanting your disciples to hunt for themselves what you hint at. But I dont think this is an Ashram. This is a forum of discussion where an academic discussion takes place openly without reservations. Or possibly there may be other reasons for you not to come out openly. The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a science. It has a method. Under this method several books have all along treated Jup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are based on this principle with modifications depending on its functionality, place, lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a crazy idea that Jupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( destroys the house it is placed in), it turns the science from a method into a madness. It will put doubts into the minds of all astrologists while interpreting its effects, particularly on young minds aspiring to learn jyotish. Already I see a discussion started on these lines on this group which in my opinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in a house, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good or bad. Some will associate it with good they had in that house and others with whatever bad they had. So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical, unauthenticated and unconventional "advices", you may do so as this is a free forum. But the least I can say is that this would be the greatest disservice to the field of Vedic Astrology. My humble suggestion to learned members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and research and use dependable commentators like Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would be fair to treat any advice seriously only if it is backed up by its source so as to make independent verification possible unless the author says it to be his own research/ experience. Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh). So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a headlines discussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The reference to Jup in the Second house discussion of BPHS has to be read in totality i.e all the three shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let me give a gist of each here First shaloka: Dhanesh in second, quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak (wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite. Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected by benefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. Nowhere is jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is known as a benefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to this shaloka. Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also posited in the same house. And if Mars is also placed with it, then the subject becomes wealthy. Period. This does not mean that if Mars is not there, Jupiter alone will harm the house. This is an implication which you are trying to make out probably to make your Muni's dictum hold good. Parashara never means it. He means to say that while a swagrahi jupiter in second is enough to make one rich but with Mars there it adds to ones wealth. Mark the sanskrit words "Vapi" meaning 'in addition". And then you are contradicting your own self since even without Mars, Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per your shaloka is not bad. So why Mars becomes necessary to support? As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting the shaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter on Kakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no shalok wanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good results. Sorry for the long mail. Regards Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on the subject. If that be so all those you treat as authorities, including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of Mantracharya) would also be reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by either referring to their names or saying precisely what the shloka says that is "so say Munis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not giving the name of the authority is I want people to read various texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka one quotes is the other reason. If you do not want to read commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning of his text that he is only telling what others have told before him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira. Maitreya also asks Parashara that as he has till now told principles of astrology on the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga in BPHS. Could you explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What is the reason for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2nd would not be capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not dispute knowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting without authority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why CH.43 shloka 48 tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why Jupiter by himself does not give Kakshya Vriddhi in longevity. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, As already informed I have already read the shalok quoted by you in support of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta, saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa. But please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish the thesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by the author, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it was said and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, the Shalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and dignifies the house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it is in while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit muinvra" i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is somebody else's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of this blatant theory after all? Chandarshekharji, you are making an important and revolutionary statement which if followed shall change the entire structure of Vedic Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all must have stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have therefore to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written by anybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does not mean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is written in sanskrit. At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not go into its reasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so respected in this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt. Gopeshkumar Oza and Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read commentaries and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as a learned Guru please favour all of us with the background information on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning why you are so convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives of human beings. I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it is common knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now holding Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives of these people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has very nicely handled this issue and replied the post point by point. Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I have already given the relevant shloka and others have given other shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the archives but it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka about Jupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny at least? You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know about their personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. Also check up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru in Lagna can do. I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read the list, many have agreed to what I have said from their own experience. I have also said that one has to apply the dictum in proper perspective to get correct results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all planets give good results in own house and all planets are capable of giving good results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that no principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be applied after taking into consideration all variables. The case mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house or Saturn who protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember right. The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana rakshati mandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in keeping with the dictum. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject all along but failed to get your source of conviction. We all agree that Jup too has its unfavourable positions and traits. We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is a functional malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that it gets KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend the argument further by making them good or bad. These are well established === message truncated === _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. alternate email is raichuranant (AT) indiatimes (DOT) com:Location Bombay India vote. - Register online to vote today! 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Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Dear Lakshmi, This reference is given by Narayan Bhatt the author of Chamatkar Chintamani. He has not mentioned the Purana in which it appears. Had I known that I would certainly have given the same. Parashara's views are no different if one delves deep into what he has said about yogas involving Guru. Guru being termed benefic and the word being associated with Deeksha or Shiksha Guru, we sometimes fail to correlate the yogas to how Guru delivers results. Look at what Parashara says about results of Guru in second house and then think why he attributes Good results if he is in own house or conjuncts Mars. The implication is that otherwise these results would not ensue. About looking at a chart from non integrated point of view, I presume you are referring to the shlokas given. While I agree with you about an integrated approach, it is better not to forget that all Sages have given such references including the Great Parashara himself (Look at what he says about certain yogas in Shalivahana and Yudhishthira"s Chart in times to come). It does not mean that the sages are having a one sided approach. This is done to high light and illustrate a particular position of Graha/s in order to make it easy to understand for the laymen. Regards, Chandrashekhar. lakshmi ramesh wrote: Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekharji, Could you please tell me from which purana the quoted lines were taken? I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can not really comment on it. But with all due respects to the author, Parasara often thinks differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my admiration for the great master, who thought of a million profound ways to elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather than as a chamatkar, is infinitely higher. Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the powerful sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana sthana) on lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled times as the exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted venus (4th & 11th lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this information, and want only to selectively assess the chart by focusing on Jupiter in lagna, I think we are not being true either to the Veda vidya or to ourselves. I think, here something greater than ourselves, our petty discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth is revealed to us through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if we want to look at only one house and only one planet, I think we are doing our best not to elicit the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me, Sir, honestly do you, with your formidable intellectual stature, limit yourself thus and not adopt an integrated approach for evaluating a chart? As far as Duryodhana's chart is concerned, My tentative feeling is that he had Jupiter debilitated in 10th for aries lagna, with Mars in lagna, Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun in cancer, Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along with saturn. How is it? If any one has more information, it would be fun to discuss it. I have not thought about other charts. But if someone else had, I would like to see them. Regards, Lakshmi Sarajit Poddar <sarajit (AT) (DOT) org> wrote: || Jaya Jagannath || Dear Chandrashekhar, Thank you for the comment from the puranas. " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." Regards Sarajit ----- Original Message ----- Chandrashekhar To: PNRazdan Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM Subject: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles--to Chandraji Dear Razdan, Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya Mait reyaclearlysaysthatParasharahasgivenopinionsofmanyRishisandAcharyas.SosayingthatParasharaonlytoldwhathadbeenrevealedtohimbyLordBrahmawouldbeshowingdisrespecttotheGreatsagewhohadthemagnanimitytogivecredittootherRishisandAcharyas.BRBR Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka from Purana which says: " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. Parashara is quoting no ordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave us the BPHS.Similarly Prithuysas is quoting his father the great Vrahmihir which gave us the Horasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a nameless sage (not sages as I said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect because the noun and verb is singular) would be like showing candle to the Sun. I dont think this discussion is going to serve any purpose. You are not prepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you are so much depending upon. By now it seems it is something casually said to which I attached more than necessary importance. You seem to have attained the role of some sort of a master in this group wanting your disciples to hunt for themselves what you hint at. But I dont think this is an Ashram. This is a forum of discussion where an academic discussion takes place openly without reservations. Or possibly there may be other reasons for you not to come out openly. The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a science. It has a method. Under this method several books have all along treated Jup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are based on this principle with modifications depending on its functionality, place, lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a crazy idea that Jupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( destroys the house it is placed in), it turns the science from a method into a madness. It will put doubts into the minds of all astrologists while interpreting its effects, particularly on young minds aspiring to learn jyotish. Already I see a discussion started on these lines on this group which in my opinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in a house, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good or bad. Some will associate it with good they had in that house and others with whatever bad they had. So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical, unauthenticated and unconventional "advices", you may do so as this is a free forum. But the least I can say is that this would be the greatest disservice to the field of Vedic Astrology. My humble suggestion to learned members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and research and use dependable commentators like Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would be fair to treat any advice seriously only if it is backed up by its source so as to make independent verification possible unless the author says it to be his own research/ experience. Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh). So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a headlines discussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The reference to Jup in the Second house discussion of BPHS has to be read in totality i.e all the three shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let me give a gist of each here First shaloka: Dhanesh in second, quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak (wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite. Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected by benefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. Nowhere is jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is known as a benefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to this shaloka. Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also posited in the same house. And if Mars is also placed with it, then the subject becomes wealthy. Period. This does not mean that if Mars is not there, Jupiter alone will harm the house. This is an implication which you are trying to make out probably to make your Muni's dictum hold good. Parashara never means it. He means to say that while a swagrahi jupiter in second is enough to make one rich but with Mars there it adds to ones wealth. Mark the sanskrit words "Vapi" meaning 'in addition". And then you are contradicting your own self since even without Mars, Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per your shaloka is not bad. So why Mars becomes necessary to support? As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting the shaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter on Kakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no shalok wanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good results. Sorry for the long mail. Regards Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on the subject. If that be so all those you treat as authorities, including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of Mantracharya) would also be reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by either referring to their names or saying precisely what the shloka says that is "so say Munis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not giving the name of the authority is I want people to read various texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka one quotes is the other reason. If you do not want to read commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning of his text that he is only telling what others have told before him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira. Maitreya also asks Parashara that as he has till now told principles of astrology on the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga in BPHS. Could you explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What is the reason for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2nd would not be capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not dispute knowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting without authority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why CH.43 shloka 48 tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why Jupiter by himself does not give Kakshya Vriddhi in longevity. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandarshekhar, As already informed I have already read the shalok quoted by you in support of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta, saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa. But please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish the thesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by the author, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it was said and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, the Shalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and dignifies the house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it is in while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit muinvra" i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is somebody else's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of this blatant theory after all? Chandarshekharji, you are making an important and revolutionary statement which if followed shall change the entire structure of Vedic Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all must have stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have therefore to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written by anybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does not mean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is written in sanskrit. At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not go into its reasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so respected in this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt. Gopeshkumar Oza and Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read commentaries and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as a learned Guru please favour all of us with the background information on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning why you are so convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives of human beings. I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it is common knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now holding Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives of these people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has very nicely handled this issue and replied the post point by point. Pran Razdan --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Razdan, I have already given the relevant shloka and others have given other shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the archives but it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka about Jupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny at least? You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know about their personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. Also check up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru in Lagna can do. I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read the list, many have agreed to what I have said from their own experience. I have also said that one has to apply the dictum in proper perspective to get correct results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all planets give good results in own house and all planets are capable of giving good results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that no principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be applied after taking into consideration all variables. The case mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house or Saturn who protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember right. The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana rakshati mandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in keeping with the dictum. Chandrashekhar. PNRazdan wrote: Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject all along but failed to get your source of conviction. We all agree that Jup too has its unfavourable positions and traits. We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is a functional malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that it gets KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend the argument further by making them good or bad. These are well established === message truncated === _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Dear Reema, Would you kindly post the charts you refer to with brief life sketch of each of the Jataka? Is none of the indications of the Bhava Guru occupies damaged? This information would certainly help look at the dictum in right perspective. Chandrashekhar. reema_sriganesh wrote: Namaste everyone, I have a chart where vakri Guru (alone) in 5th in tula have given the native two good sons. I also have a chart where Guru (conjoined with chandra and shukra) is in 2nd house in simha, and the native is a multi-millionaire. I have a third chart where Guru is in kanya (alone) in 10th and the native was a big industrialist. I have a fourth chart where vakri Guru is in kanya (alone) in 2nd house and the native is a billionaire. I have a fifth chart where Guru is in simha (alone) in 10th house and the native presently stands a good chance of occupying the highest office in United States. I have a sixth chart where Guru is in tula (alone) in 10th house and the native has been a US presidential candidate for 4 times. I have a seventh chart where Guru is conjoined Mangal in Makara in 5th house and the native is a father of two children (son and daughter). I am sure that if all of us were to go through the charts in our collection, we would find so many of them where Guru's occupation of a bhava could not have made the native as successful in the respective areas of life, if we were to go by the theory of Guru spoiling the occupied bhava. Therefore, without taking sides, I would like to urge further research on this theory of Guru hurting the house he occupies, before coming to any conclusions. May Sri Vishnu bless us all, Reema. vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Chandrasekharji, > > > > Could you please tell me from which purana the quoted lines were taken? > > > > I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can not really comment on it. But with all due respects to the author, Parasara often thinks differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my admiration for the great master, who thought of a million profound ways to elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather than as a chamatkar, is infinitely higher. > > > > Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the powerful sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana sthana) on lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled times as the exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted venus (4th & 11th lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this information, and want only to selectively assess the chart by focusing on Jupiter in lagna, I think we are not being true either to the Veda vidya or to ourselves. I think, here something greater than ourselves, our petty discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth is revealed to us through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if we want to look at only one house and only one planet, I think we are doing our best not to elicit the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me, Sir, honestly do you, with your formidable intellectual stature, limit yourself thus and not adopt an integrated approach for evaluating a chart? > > > > As far as Duryodhana's chart is concerned, My tentative feeling is that he had Jupiter debilitated in 10th for aries lagna, with Mars in lagna, Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun in cancer, Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along with saturn. How is it? If any one has more information, it would be fun to discuss it. > > > > I have not thought about other charts. But if someone else had, I would like to see them. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > Sarajit Poddar <sarajit@s...> wrote:|| Jaya Jagannath || > Dear Chandrashekhar, > > Thank you for the comment from the puranas. > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." > > Regards > Sarajit > - > Chandrashekhar > PNRazdan > Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology > Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles-- to Chandraji > > > Dear Razdan, > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had been revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis and Acharyas. > > Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka from Purana which says: > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." > > I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for. > Chandrashekhar. > > PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his father the great Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect because the noun andverb is singular) would be like showing candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is going to serve any purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is something casually said to which I attachedmore than necessary importance. You seem to have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in this group wanting your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint at. But I dont think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion where an academic discussion takes placeopenly without reservations. Or possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to come out > openly.The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a science. Ithas a method. Under this method several books have all along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are based on thisprinciple with modifications depending on its functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a crazy idea thatJupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( destroys the house it isplaced in), it turns the science from a method into a madness. It willput doubts into the minds of all astrologists while interpreting itseffects, particularly on young minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a discussion started on these lines on this group which in myopinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good or bad. Some willassociate it with good they had in that house and others with whateverbad they had.So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical,unauthenticated and > unconventional "advices", you may do so as this isa free forum. But the least I can say is that this would be thegreatest disservice to the field of Vedic Astrology.My humble suggestion to learned members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and research and use dependable commentatorslike Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would be fair to treat anyadvice seriously only if it is backed up by its source so as to makeindependent verification possible unless the author says it to be hisown research/ experience. Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh).So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of BPHS has to be read in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst shaloka: Dhanesh in second, > quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak(wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite.Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is known as abenefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to this shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed with it, then the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not mean that if Mars is not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house. This is an implication which you are trying to make outprobably to make your Muni's dictum hold good. Parashara never meansit. He means to say that while a swagrahi jupiter in second is enoughto make one rich but with Mars there it adds to ones wealth. Mark thesanskrit words "Vapi" meaning 'in addition".And then you are contradicting your own self since even without Mars,Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per > your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes necessary to support? As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting theshaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Razdan,I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on the subject.If that be so all those you treat as authorities, including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by either referring totheir names or saying precisely what the shloka says that is "so sayMunis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not giving the name of theauthority is I want people to read various texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to read commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning > of his text that he is only telling whatothers have told before him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira.Maitreya also asks Parashara that as he has till now told principlesof astrology on the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga inBPHS.Could you explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What isthe reason for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2ndwould not be capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why > Jupiter by himself doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have already read the shalok quoted by you insupport of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa.But please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish thethesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by theauthor, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it wassaid and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, theShalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and dignifies > > the > > house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it is > > in > > while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit > > muinvra" > > i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is somebodyelse's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of thisblatant theory after all?Chandarshekharji, you are making an important and revolutionarystatement which if followed shall change the entire structure of > > Vedic > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all must > > have > > stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have > > therefore > > to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written byanybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is > > written > > in sanskrit.At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not go into itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so respected > > in > > this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt.Gopeshkumar Oza and Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read > > commentaries > > and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as a learned Guru please favour all of us with the backgroundinformation on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning whyyou are so convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives ofhuman beings.I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it is > > common > > knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now > > holding > > Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives of > > these > > people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has verynicely handled this issue and replied the post point by point.Pran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Razdan,I have already given the relevant shloka and others have given > > other > > shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the archivesbut it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny at least?You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know abouttheir personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. Also > > check > > up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru inLagna can do.I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read the list, manyhave agreed to what I have said from their own experience. I have alsosaid that one has to apply the dictum in proper perspective to get > > correct > > results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all planetsgive good results in own house and all planets are capable of giving > > good > > results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that no > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be appliedafter taking into consideration all variables.The case mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house orSaturn who protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember > > right. > > The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana rakshatimandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in keeping with thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject all along but > > failed > > > > to > > get your source of conviction.We all agree that Jup too has its unfavourable positions and > > traits. > > We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is a > > functional > > malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that it > > gets > > KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend the > > argument > > further by making them good or bad. These are well established > > === message truncated === _______________________________Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > vedic astrology/ > > > vedic astrology > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Namaste Chandrashekharji, Sure. Below are the details of the charts I was referring to in my original email. 1) My mother 03/18/1946 Time: 11:58:40 AM (5:30 East of GMT) Place: 75E06, 23N18 All her three children (2 sons, 1 daughter) love and respect her the most in life. 2) Julia Roberts 10/28/1967 Time: 0:16 AM (5:00 West of GMT) Place: 84W23, 33N44 She is a rich hollywood actress. I am not sure about her family background, although, I believe she's had multiple marriages. 3) Dhirubhai Ambani 12/28/1932 Time: 7:35:20 (5:30 East of GMT) Place: 70E26, 20N53 He was a very successful industrialist. Worked very hard all his life and had a good social standing. 4) Donald Trump 6/14/1946 Time: 9:51:00 (5:00 West of GMT) Place: 73W52, 40N43 A new york billionaire; I believe he has good relations with his family (except probably ex-wives, who made a lot of money from him as part of their divorce settlements) 5) John Kerry 12/11/1943 Time: 7:12:00 (7:00 West of GMT) Place: 104W59, 39N44 Democratic presidential nominee. Has had a very successful career throughout in politics and a good social standing. 6) Ralph Nader 02/27/1934 Time: 4:52:00 (5:00 West of GMT) Place: 73W4, 41N55 Is a presidential candidate for the fourth time. Throughout his life he has been a successful activist/lawyer against corporations that pollute environment/create hazards. Btw, I made a mistake with this chart. When I opened the chart while drafting my original mail, I did not realize that I had Raman ayanamsa set in JHL, wherein vakri Guru is in 10th in tula. Now that I have changed the ayanamsa back to Lahiri, Guru is in 9th house in kanya. Regardless, the significations of 9th house do not seem to have been harmed. Although he is a very private person, he publicly credits his father for "sparking his interest in public affairs". His parents immigrated from Lebanon to the US, and usually, immigrant kids from the east tend to respect their hard working parents. But again, I do not want us to assume his relationship with father (good or bad), without further details. 7) Sachin Tendulkar 04/24/1973 Time: 16:27:55 (5:30 East of GMT) Place: 72E50, 18N58 A very famous sportsman (cricket) with two adoring kids (son and a daughter). Chandrashekharji, I hope I provided you with all the requisite details. Please let me know if you need any further information on the life of the above natives. May Sri Vishnu bless us all. Reema. vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Reema, > Would you kindly post the charts you refer to with brief life sketch of > each of the Jataka? Is none of the indications of the Bhava Guru > occupies damaged? This information would certainly help look at the > dictum in right perspective. > Chandrashekhar. > > > reema_sriganesh wrote: > > > Namaste everyone, > > > > I have a chart where vakri Guru (alone) in 5th in tula have given the > > native two good sons. I also have a chart where Guru (conjoined with > > chandra and shukra) is in 2nd house in simha, and the native is a > > multi-millionaire. I have a third chart where Guru is in kanya > > (alone) in 10th and the native was a big industrialist. I have a > > fourth chart where vakri Guru is in kanya (alone) in 2nd house and > > the native is a billionaire. I have a fifth chart where Guru is in > > simha (alone) in 10th house and the native presently stands a good > > chance of occupying the highest office in United States. I have a > > sixth chart where Guru is in tula (alone) in 10th house and the > > native has been a US presidential candidate for 4 times. I have a > > seventh chart where Guru is conjoined Mangal in Makara in 5th house > > and the native is a father of two children (son and daughter). > > > > I am sure that if all of us were to go through the charts in our > > collection, we would find so many of them where Guru's occupation of > > a bhava could not have made the native as successful in the > > respective areas of life, if we were to go by the theory of Guru > > spoiling the occupied bhava. > > > > Therefore, without taking sides, I would like to urge further > > research on this theory of Guru hurting the house he occupies, before > > coming to any conclusions. > > > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all, > > Reema. > > > > vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekharji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you please tell me from which purana the quoted lines were > > taken? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can not really comment > > on it. But with all due respects to the author, Parasara often thinks > > differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my admiration for > > the great master, who thought of a million profound ways to > > elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather than as a > > chamatkar, is infinitely higher. > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the powerful > > sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana sthana) on > > lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled times as the > > exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted venus (4th & 11th > > lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this information, and > > want only to selectively assess the chart by focusing on Jupiter in > > lagna, I think we are not being true either to the Veda vidya or to > > ourselves. I think, here something greater than ourselves, our petty > > discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth is revealed to us > > through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if we want to look at only > > one house and only one planet, I think we are doing our best not to > > elicit the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me, Sir, honestly > > do you, with your formidable intellectual stature, limit yourself > > thus and not adopt an integrated approach for evaluating a chart? > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as Duryodhana's chart is concerned, My tentative feeling is > > that he had Jupiter debilitated in 10th for aries lagna, with Mars in > > lagna, Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun in cancer, > > Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along with saturn. > > How is it? If any one has more information, it would be fun to > > discuss it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have not thought about other charts. But if someone else had, I > > would like to see them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarajit Poddar <sarajit@s...> wrote:|| Jaya Jagannath || > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > Thank you for the comment from the puranas. > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) > > on account of his Guru in 9th." > > > > > > Regards > > > Sarajit > > > - > > > Chandrashekhar > > > PNRazdan > > > Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology > > > Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM > > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles-- > > to Chandraji > > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan, > > > > > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika > > Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in > > shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya > > again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told > > by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of > > others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in > > almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of > > the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in > > the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya > > Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many > > Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had been > > revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the > > Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis and > > Acharyas. > > > > > > Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas > > that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the > > shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar > > Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the > > later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani > > further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication > > of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka > > from Purana which says: > > > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) > > on account of his Guru in 9th." > > > > > > I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like > > to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of > > learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not > > to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to > > interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for. > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > PNRazdan wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. > > Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which > > gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his father the great > > Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting > > a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but only one sage-I was > > incorrect because the noun andverb is singular) would be like showing > > candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is going to serve any > > purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you > > are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is something casually > > said to which I attachedmore than necessary importance. You seem to > > have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in this group wanting > > your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint at. But I dont > > think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion where an > > academic discussion takes placeopenly without reservations. Or > > possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to come out > > > openly.The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a > > science. Ithas a method. Under this method several books have all > > along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are > > based on thisprinciple with modifications depending on its > > functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth > > a crazy idea thatJupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( > > destroys the house it isplaced in), it turns the science from a > > method into a madness. It willput doubts into the minds of all > > astrologists while interpreting itseffects, particularly on young > > minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a discussion started on > > these lines on this group which in myopinion is energy wasted on a > > wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse, a doubt will arise as > > to whether it is good or bad. Some willassociate it with good they > > had in that house and others with whateverbad they had.So if you are > > determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical,unauthenticated > > and > > > unconventional "advices", you may do so as this isa free forum. > > But the least I can say is that this would be thegreatest disservice > > to the field of Vedic Astrology.My humble suggestion to learned > > members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and > > research and use dependable commentatorslike Raman, Rao etc.for > > clarifications. It would be fair to treat anyadvice seriously only if > > it is backed up by its source so as to makeindependent verification > > possible unless the author says it to be hisown research/ experience. > > Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends > > (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh).So far I > > didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a > > headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The > > reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of BPHS has to be read > > in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. > > Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst shaloka: Dhanesh in second, > > > quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak(wealth giving) in 6,8,12 > > opposite.Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected > > bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. > > Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is > > known as abenefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to > > this shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also > > posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed with it, then > > the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not mean that if Mars is > > not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house. This is an implication > > which you are trying to make outprobably to make your Muni's dictum > > hold good. Parashara never meansit. He means to say that while a > > swagrahi jupiter in second is enoughto make one rich but with Mars > > there it adds to ones wealth. Mark thesanskrit words "Vapi" > > meaning 'in addition".And then you are contradicting your own self > > since even without Mars,Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per > > > your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes necessary to support? > > As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting > > theshaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter > > onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no > > shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good > > results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar > > <boxdel> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Razdan,I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if > > some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on > > the subject.If that be so all those you treat as authorities, > > including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of > > Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of > > those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by > > either referring totheir names or saying precisely what the shloka > > says that is "so sayMunis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and > > Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not > > giving the name of theauthority is I want people to read various > > texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it > > takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka > > one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to read > > commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to > > almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning > > > of his text that he is only telling whatothers have told before > > him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira.Maitreya also > > asks Parashara that as he has till now told principlesof astrology on > > the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy > > method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by > > those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga inBPHS.Could you > > explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What isthe reason > > for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed > > in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying > > that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2ndwould not be > > capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not > > disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting > > withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why > > CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has > > to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why > > > Jupiter by himself doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in > > longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have already read the > > shalok quoted by you insupport of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta > > vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa.But > > please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish > > thethesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by > > theauthor, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it > > wassaid and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, > > theShalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and > > dignifies > > > > > > the > > > > > > house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it > > is > > > > > > in > > > > > > while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit > > > > > > muinvra" > > > > > > i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is > > somebodyelse's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of > > thisblatant theory after all?Chandarshekharji, you are making an > > important and revolutionarystatement which if followed shall change > > the entire structure of > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all > > must > > > > > > have > > > > > > stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have > > > > > > therefore > > > > > > to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written > > byanybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does > > notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is > > > > > > written > > > > > > in sanskrit.At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not > > go into itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so > > respected > > > > > > in > > > > > > this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail > > you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt.Gopeshkumar Oza and > > Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read > > > > > > commentaries > > > > > > and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as > > a learned Guru please favour all of us with the backgroundinformation > > on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning whyyou are so > > convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives ofhuman > > beings.I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it > > is > > > > > > common > > > > > > knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now > > > > > > holding > > > > > > Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives > > of > > > > > > these > > > > > > people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has > > verynicely handled this issue and replied the post point by > > point.Pran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Razdan,I have already given the relevant shloka and others > > have given > > > > > > other > > > > > > shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the > > archivesbut it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka > > aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny > > at least?You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know > > abouttheir personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the > > house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. > > Also > > > > > > check > > > > > > up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru > > inLagna can do.I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read > > the list, manyhave agreed to what I have said from their own > > experience. I have alsosaid that one has to apply the dictum in > > proper perspective to get > > > > > > correct > > > > > > results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all > > planetsgive good results in own house and all planets are capable of > > giving > > > > > > good > > > > > > results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that > > no > > > > > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be > > appliedafter taking into consideration all variables.The case > > mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house orSaturn who > > protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember > > > > > > right. > > > > > > The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana > > rakshatimandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in > > keeping with thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject > > all along but > > > > > > failed > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > get your source of conviction.We all agree that Jup too has its > > unfavourable positions and > > > > > > traits. > > > > > > We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is > > a > > > > > > functional > > > > > > malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that > > it > > > > > > gets > > > > > > KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding > > beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend > > the > > > > > > argument > > > > > > further by making them good or bad. These are well > > established > > > > > > === message truncated === > > _______________________________Express yourself > > with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology/ > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > * Sponsor* > > > > click here > > <http://us.ard./SIG=1290dg6m7/M=295196.4901138.6071305.300117 6/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095950461/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/ *http://companion.> > > > > > > > > ------ > > * Links* > > > > * > > vedic astrology/ > > > > * > > vedic astrology > > <vedic astrology? subject=Un> > > > > * Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Dear Reema, Like Lakshmi, you too have provided incontroversial evidence of Jupiters benefic qualities. With more posts coming everyday of this sort, it is becoming very difficult to accept the idea of jupiter being destructive in his house. Let the debate go on in an open manner. Pran Razdan --- reema_sriganesh <reema_sriganesh wrote: > Namaste everyone, > > I have a chart where vakri Guru (alone) in 5th in tula have given the > > native two good sons. I also have a chart where Guru (conjoined with > chandra and shukra) is in 2nd house in simha, and the native is a > multi-millionaire. I have a third chart where Guru is in kanya > (alone) in 10th and the native was a big industrialist. I have a > fourth chart where vakri Guru is in kanya (alone) in 2nd house and > the native is a billionaire. I have a fifth chart where Guru is in > simha (alone) in 10th house and the native presently stands a good > chance of occupying the highest office in United States. I have a > sixth chart where Guru is in tula (alone) in 10th house and the > native has been a US presidential candidate for 4 times. I have a > seventh chart where Guru is conjoined Mangal in Makara in 5th house > and the native is a father of two children (son and daughter). > > I am sure that if all of us were to go through the charts in our > collection, we would find so many of them where Guru's occupation of > a bhava could not have made the native as successful in the > respective areas of life, if we were to go by the theory of Guru > spoiling the occupied bhava. > > Therefore, without taking sides, I would like to urge further > research on this theory of Guru hurting the house he occupies, before > > coming to any conclusions. > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all, > Reema. > > vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekharji, > > > > > > > > Could you please tell me from which purana the quoted lines were > taken? > > > > > > > > I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can not really comment > on it. But with all due respects to the author, Parasara often thinks > > differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my admiration for > the great master, who thought of a million profound ways to > elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather than as a > chamatkar, is infinitely higher. > > > > > > > > Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the powerful > sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana sthana) on > lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled times as the > exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted venus (4th & 11th > lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this information, and > want only to selectively assess the chart by focusing on Jupiter in > lagna, I think we are not being true either to the Veda vidya or to > ourselves. I think, here something greater than ourselves, our petty > discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth is revealed to us > > through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if we want to look at only > one house and only one planet, I think we are doing our best not to > elicit the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me, Sir, honestly > do you, with your formidable intellectual stature, limit yourself > thus and not adopt an integrated approach for evaluating a chart? > > > > > > > > As far as Duryodhana's chart is concerned, My tentative feeling is > that he had Jupiter debilitated in 10th for aries lagna, with Mars in > > lagna, Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun in cancer, > Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along with saturn. > How is it? If any one has more information, it would be fun to > discuss it. > > > > > > > > I have not thought about other charts. But if someone else had, I > would like to see them. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > Sarajit Poddar <sarajit@s...> wrote:|| Jaya Jagannath || > > Dear Chandrashekhar, > > > > Thank you for the comment from the puranas. > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) > on account of his Guru in 9th." > > > > Regards > > Sarajit > > - > > Chandrashekhar > > PNRazdan > > Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology > > Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various roles-- > to Chandraji > > > > > > Dear Razdan, > > > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika > > Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in > shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya > > again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told > > by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of > others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in > almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of > > the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in > the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya > Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many > Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had been > > revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the > Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis and > > Acharyas. > > > > Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas > that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the > shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar > Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the > > later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani > further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication > of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka > from Purana which says: > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) > on account of his Guru in 9th." > > > > I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like > to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of > learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not > to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to > interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > PNRazdan wrote: > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. > Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which > gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his father the great > Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting > a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but only one sage-I was > incorrect because the noun andverb is singular) would be like showing > > candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is going to serve any > purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you > are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is something casually > said to which I attachedmore than necessary importance. You seem to > have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in this group wanting > your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint at. But I dont > think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion where an > academic discussion takes placeopenly without reservations. Or > possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to come out > > openly.The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a > science. Ithas a method. Under this method several books have all > along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are > based on thisprinciple with modifications depending on its > functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth > > === message truncated === Mail is new and improved - Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Dear Ms. Reema I would like to observe something, which I am experimenting on, at the moment. In your mothers chart, Guru though a strong kendradhipathi ,is in a trikona. Moreover guru and shukra are undergoing parivartana (5th and 10th) and shukra the 5th lord getting exaltation in the process.Guru is Vargottama.Maraka effects are ruled out by its placement outside,2nd and 7th.Based on classical references, I am trying to study the reduction or perhaps beneficiance (fructification of Yogakarakatwa) ,inspite of Kendradhipatya. Kindly brief in general, Jupiter dasha for your mother (good,average,bad,worse), for my better understanding of dashas, under similar circumstances. Is your mother employed.Also brief about the other indications - say intelligence, studies, authority, etc. Moreover with respect to the dictum under discussion :- Jupiter in this case,to a ceratin extent behaves as if he is in own house (parivartana effect). Thus I believe ,along with our learning process, our maturity also grows in proprtion,that evaluation of dictums(which are signal flags) can be more integrated. Signal flags or dictums are pause points,which just reminds us about a possible deviation,during chart analysis. Thanks Pradeep vedic astrology, "reema_sriganesh" <reema_sriganesh> wrote: > Namaste Chandrashekharji, > > Sure. Below are the details of the charts I was referring to in my > original email. > > 1) My mother > > 03/18/1946 > Time: 11:58:40 AM (5:30 East of GMT) > Place: 75E06, 23N18 > > All her three children (2 sons, 1 daughter) love and respect her the > most in life. > > 2) Julia Roberts > > 10/28/1967 > Time: 0:16 AM (5:00 West of GMT) > Place: 84W23, 33N44 > > She is a rich hollywood actress. I am not sure about her family > background, although, I believe she's had multiple marriages. > > 3) Dhirubhai Ambani > > 12/28/1932 > Time: 7:35:20 (5:30 East of GMT) > Place: 70E26, 20N53 > > He was a very successful industrialist. Worked very hard all his life > and had a good social standing. > > 4) Donald Trump > > 6/14/1946 > Time: 9:51:00 (5:00 West of GMT) > Place: 73W52, 40N43 > > A new york billionaire; I believe he has good relations with his > family (except probably ex-wives, who made a lot of money from him as > part of their divorce settlements) > > 5) John Kerry > > 12/11/1943 > Time: 7:12:00 (7:00 West of GMT) > Place: 104W59, 39N44 > > Democratic presidential nominee. Has had a very successful career > throughout in politics and a good social standing. > > 6) Ralph Nader > > 02/27/1934 > Time: 4:52:00 (5:00 West of GMT) > Place: 73W4, 41N55 > > Is a presidential candidate for the fourth time. Throughout his life > he has been a successful activist/lawyer against corporations that > pollute environment/create hazards. Btw, I made a mistake with this > chart. When I opened the chart while drafting my original mail, I did > not realize that I had Raman ayanamsa set in JHL, wherein vakri Guru > is in 10th in tula. Now that I have changed the ayanamsa back to > Lahiri, Guru is in 9th house in kanya. Regardless, the significations > of 9th house do not seem to have been harmed. Although he is a very > private person, he publicly credits his father for "sparking his > interest in public affairs". His parents immigrated from Lebanon to > the US, and usually, immigrant kids from the east tend to respect > their hard working parents. But again, I do not want us to assume his > relationship with father (good or bad), without further details. > > 7) Sachin Tendulkar > > 04/24/1973 > Time: 16:27:55 (5:30 East of GMT) > Place: 72E50, 18N58 > > A very famous sportsman (cricket) with two adoring kids (son and a > daughter). > > Chandrashekharji, I hope I provided you with all the requisite > details. Please let me know if you need any further information on > the life of the above natives. > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all. > Reema. > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> > wrote: > > Dear Reema, > > Would you kindly post the charts you refer to with brief life > sketch of > > each of the Jataka? Is none of the indications of the Bhava Guru > > occupies damaged? This information would certainly help look at the > > dictum in right perspective. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > reema_sriganesh wrote: > > > > > Namaste everyone, > > > > > > I have a chart where vakri Guru (alone) in 5th in tula have given > the > > > native two good sons. I also have a chart where Guru (conjoined > with > > > chandra and shukra) is in 2nd house in simha, and the native is a > > > multi-millionaire. I have a third chart where Guru is in kanya > > > (alone) in 10th and the native was a big industrialist. I have a > > > fourth chart where vakri Guru is in kanya (alone) in 2nd house and > > > the native is a billionaire. I have a fifth chart where Guru is in > > > simha (alone) in 10th house and the native presently stands a good > > > chance of occupying the highest office in United States. I have a > > > sixth chart where Guru is in tula (alone) in 10th house and the > > > native has been a US presidential candidate for 4 times. I have a > > > seventh chart where Guru is conjoined Mangal in Makara in 5th > house > > > and the native is a father of two children (son and daughter). > > > > > > I am sure that if all of us were to go through the charts in our > > > collection, we would find so many of them where Guru's occupation > of > > > a bhava could not have made the native as successful in the > > > respective areas of life, if we were to go by the theory of Guru > > > spoiling the occupied bhava. > > > > > > Therefore, without taking sides, I would like to urge further > > > research on this theory of Guru hurting the house he occupies, > before > > > coming to any conclusions. > > > > > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all, > > > Reema. > > > > > > vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekharji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you please tell me from which purana the quoted lines were > > > taken? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can not really > comment > > > on it. But with all due respects to the author, Parasara often > thinks > > > differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my admiration > for > > > the great master, who thought of a million profound ways to > > > elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather than as a > > > chamatkar, is infinitely higher. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the powerful > > > sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana sthana) on > > > lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled times as > the > > > exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted venus (4th & > 11th > > > lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this information, and > > > want only to selectively assess the chart by focusing on Jupiter > in > > > lagna, I think we are not being true either to the Veda vidya or > to > > > ourselves. I think, here something greater than ourselves, our > petty > > > discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth is revealed > to us > > > through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if we want to look at > only > > > one house and only one planet, I think we are doing our best not > to > > > elicit the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me, Sir, > honestly > > > do you, with your formidable intellectual stature, limit yourself > > > thus and not adopt an integrated approach for evaluating a chart? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as Duryodhana's chart is concerned, My tentative feeling > is > > > that he had Jupiter debilitated in 10th for aries lagna, with > Mars in > > > lagna, Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun in > cancer, > > > Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along with saturn. > > > How is it? If any one has more information, it would be fun to > > > discuss it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have not thought about other charts. But if someone else had, > I > > > would like to see them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarajit Poddar <sarajit@s...> wrote:|| Jaya Jagannath || > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > > > Thank you for the comment from the puranas. > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, > > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of > > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. > > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed > > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further > says > > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, > King > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of > Guru > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on > account of > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables > (Abhakshya) > > > on account of his Guru in 9th." > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Sarajit > > > > - > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > PNRazdan > > > > Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology > > > > Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM > > > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in various > roles-- > > > to Chandraji > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan, > > > > > > > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in > Ghatika > > > Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in > > > shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada > Adhyaya > > > again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as > told > > > by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of > > > others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in > > > almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or > other of > > > the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara > in > > > the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that > Adhyaya > > > Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many > > > Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had > been > > > revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the > > > Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis > and > > > Acharyas. > > > > > > > > Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas > > > that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the > > > shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar > > > Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and > the > > > later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar > Chintamani > > > further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one > indication > > > of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a > shloka > > > from Purana which says: > > > > > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, > > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of > > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. > > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed > > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further > says > > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, > King > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of > Guru > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on > account of > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables > (Abhakshya) > > > on account of his Guru in 9th." > > > > > > > > I would not like to respond to your other comments but would > like > > > to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of > > > learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not > > > > to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to > > > interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > PNRazdan wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. > > > Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which > > > gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his father the > great > > > Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your shaloka > quoting > > > a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but only one sage- I > was > > > incorrect because the noun andverb is singular) would be like > showing > > > candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is going to serve > any > > > purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of the shalok > you > > > are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is something > casually > > > said to which I attachedmore than necessary importance. You seem > to > > > have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in this group > wanting > > > your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint at. But I dont > > > think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion where an > > > academic discussion takes placeopenly without reservations. Or > > > possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to come out > > > > openly.The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a > > > science. Ithas a method. Under this method several books have all > > > along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are > > > based on thisprinciple with modifications depending on its > > > functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put > forth > > > a crazy idea thatJupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( > > > destroys the house it isplaced in), it turns the science from a > > > method into a madness. It willput doubts into the minds of all > > > astrologists while interpreting itseffects, particularly on young > > > minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a discussion > started on > > > these lines on this group which in myopinion is energy wasted on a > > > wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse, a doubt will > arise as > > > to whether it is good or bad. Some willassociate it with good they > > > had in that house and others with whateverbad they had.So if you > are > > > determined to reap cheap publicity by making > radical,unauthenticated > > > and > > > > unconventional "advices", you may do so as this isa free forum. > > > But the least I can say is that this would be thegreatest > disservice > > > to the field of Vedic Astrology.My humble suggestion to learned > > > members would be to accept any advice only after their own study > and > > > research and use dependable commentatorslike Raman, Rao etc.for > > > clarifications. It would be fair to treat anyadvice seriously > only if > > > it is backed up by its source so as to makeindependent > verification > > > possible unless the author says it to be hisown research/ > experience. > > > Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as > friends > > > (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh).So far I > > > didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a > > > headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last two > queries.The > > > reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of BPHS has to be > read > > > in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd > only. > > > Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst shaloka: Dhanesh in second, > > > > quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak(wealth giving) in 6,8,12 > > > opposite.Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or > aspected > > > bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. > > > Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it > is > > > known as abenefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to > > > this shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also > > > posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed with it, then > > > the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not mean that if > Mars is > > > not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house. This is an > implication > > > which you are trying to make outprobably to make your Muni's > dictum > > > hold good. Parashara never meansit. He means to say that while a > > > swagrahi jupiter in second is enoughto make one rich but with Mars > > > there it adds to ones wealth. Mark thesanskrit words "Vapi" > > > meaning 'in addition".And then you are contradicting your own self > > > since even without Mars,Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as > per > > > > your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes necessary to > support? > > > As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting > > > theshaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter > > > onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no > > > shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good > > > results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan--- > Chandrashekhar > > > <boxdel> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan,I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you > that if > > > some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on > > > the subject.If that be so all those you treat as authorities, > > > including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of > > > Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of ignoramus. > All of > > > those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of > others by > > > either referring totheir names or saying precisely what the shloka > > > says that is "so sayMunis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas > and > > > Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am > not > > > giving the name of theauthority is I want people to read various > > > texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it > > > takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka > > > one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to read > > > commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced > to > > > almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning > > > > of his text that he is only telling whatothers have told before > > > him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira.Maitreya also > > > asks Parashara that as he has till now told principlesof > astrology on > > > the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively > easy > > > method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by > > > those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga inBPHS.Could > you > > > explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What isthe > reason > > > for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when > placed > > > in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, > implying > > > that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2ndwould not > be > > > capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not > > > disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting > > > withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out > why > > > CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it > has > > > to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why > > > > Jupiter by himself doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in > > > longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have already read the > > > shalok quoted by you insupport of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta > > > vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy > ànòa.But > > > please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish > > > thethesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by > > > theauthor, his standing in the astrological field, the time when > it > > > wassaid and the context in which it was said. Literally > translated, > > > theShalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and > > > dignifies > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it > > > is > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the > words "vdit > > > > > > > > muinvra" > > > > > > > > i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is > > > somebodyelse's quote and not that of its author. Who is the > author of > > > thisblatant theory after all?Chandarshekharji, you are making an > > > important and revolutionarystatement which if followed shall > change > > > the entire structure of > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all > > > must > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have > > > > > > > > therefore > > > > > > > > to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written > > > byanybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does > > > notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it > is > > > > > > > > written > > > > > > > > in sanskrit.At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need > not > > > go into itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who > is so > > > respected > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > this field that we donot question his authority. In your other > mail > > > you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt.Gopeshkumar Oza and > > > Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read > > > > > > > > commentaries > > > > > > > > and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, > as > > > a learned Guru please favour all of us with the > backgroundinformation > > > on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning whyyou are so > > > convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives ofhuman > > > beings.I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as > it > > > is > > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are > now > > > > > > > > holding > > > > > > > > Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives > > > of > > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has > > > verynicely handled this issue and replied the post point by > > > point.Pran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan,I have already given the relevant shloka and others > > > have given > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the > > > archivesbut it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka > > > aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in > progeny > > > at least?You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you > know > > > abouttheir personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the > > > house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check > up. > > > Also > > > > > > > > check > > > > > > > > up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what > Guru > > > inLagna can do.I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read > > > the list, manyhave agreed to what I have said from their own > > > experience. I have alsosaid that one has to apply the dictum in > > > proper perspective to get > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all > > > planetsgive good results in own house and all planets are capable > of > > > giving > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that > > > no > > > > > > > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be > > > appliedafter taking into consideration all variables.The case > > > mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house orSaturn who > > > protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember > > > > > > > > right. > > > > > > > > The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana > > > rakshatimandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in > > > keeping with thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this > subject > > > all along but > > > > > > > > failed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get your source of conviction.We all agree that Jup too has its > > > unfavourable positions and > > > > > > > > traits. > > > > > > > > We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is > > > a > > > > > > > > functional > > > > > > > > malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that > > > it > > > > > > > > gets > > > > > > > > KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding > > > beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend > > > the > > > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > > further by making them good or bad. These are well > > > established > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > _______________________________Express > yourself > > > with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology/ > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Sponsor* > > > > > > click here > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=1290dg6m7/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011 7 > 6/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095950461/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6 / > *http://companion.> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ --- > ------ > > > * Links* > > > > > > * > > > vedic astrology/ > > > > > > * > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic astrology? > subject=Un> > > > > > > * Terms of > > > Service <>. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Dear Chandrashekhar ji Namaste In the Bavarta Ratnakar in 12th chapter 7th shloka says that Shani destroys the indications of the bhava in which it is situated. The shloka goes like this yasmin bhaave sthito mando ya bhavam viikshitethavaa. tasya tasyapi bhaavasyanyuunataaM cha vadanti hi ..7.. So now again we have contradiction among the authours. How do we reconcile? Does that mean we have to check for all planets? One authour says about Guru and other one about Shani. Someother may about Rahu and we get equal number of charts in support of each planet then how do we reconcile? Moreover, one house indicates so many things so there is chance that one of them of each house might be found damaged in almost every chart with a planet or without any planet. Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce. Prabodh Vekhande Jai Jai Shankar Har Har Shankar --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel wrote: > Dear Sridhar, > You appear to be getting the results in keeping with > the dictum. Your > idea about testing out the dictum is good. > Chandrashekhar. > > sridhar k wrote: > > > We are over 1000 members in the group. Each one of > has JUPITER in some > > house, and Saturn in one House. Why not each send > his/her experience > > so that we can have a statistical study on the > DICTUM JUPITER SPOILS > > the House he Resides in. Saturn Protects the House > in which he resides. > > I have JUP in the 6th House, SAT in 5th House; > > I have very good relations with my 3 sons. With > Jup. 6th House, I have > > had health Problems, only during the Sub-periods > of Jupiter, But on > > the other aspects of Success over enemies etc. JUP > has been favourable. > > > > > > > > */Chandrashekhar <boxdel/* wrote: > > > > Dear Razdan, > > > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion > of Narada in > > Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of > the learned (not > > Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. > First shloka of > > Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is > telling the special > > effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again > not Brahma). He he > > also mentions opinion of others in first > shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. > > The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas > given credit to other > > learneds in one or other of the shlokas, > besides what Maitreya > > himself said to Sage Parashara in the > beginning of Ashtakavarga > > Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Ad > > > hyayaMaitreyaclearlysaysthatParasharahasgivenopinionsofmanyRishisandAcharyas.Sos\ ayingthatParasharaonlytoldwhathadbeenrevealedtohimbyLordBrahmawouldbeshowingdisr\ especttotheGreatsagewhohadthemagnanimitytogivecredittoother > > Rishis and Acharyas. > > > > Since you are questioning veracity and > authority of the shlokas > > that I quoted, I would like to give you the > Texts in which the > > shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka > and Chamatkaar > > Chintamani you will find them. The first text > has the shlokas and > > the later again mentions same shlokas. If you > read Chamatkar > > Chintamani further you will find Jupiter > giving harm to at least > > one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he > occupies. It also > > mentions a shloka from Purana which says: > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account > of Guru in Lagna, > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in > fourth tested Satwa of > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made > Draupadi face Cheerharana. > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth > house Guru killed > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to > forest." It further > > says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on > account of Guru in > > 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama > (Putrashoka) on > > account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer > separation from his > > wife on account of Guru in Seventh. > Vishwamitra had to consume non > > eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in > 9th." > > > > I would not like to respond to your other > comments but would like > > to mention here that the group is formed with > an intention of > > learning and discussing principles of > astrology. I do not > > to your assumption of astrology > being a rigid science > > not open to interpretation. Some of your > comments are uncalled for. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > PNRazdan wrote: > > > >>Dear Chandarshekhar, > >>There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. > Parashara is quoting no > >>ordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave > us the BPHS.Similarly > >>Prithuysas is quoting his father the great > Vrahmihir which gave us the > >>Horasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a > nameless sage (not sages as > >>I said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect > because the noun and > >>verb is singular) would be like showing candle to > the Sun. > >>I dont think this discussion is going to serve any > purpose. You are not > >>prepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you > are so much depending > >>upon. By now it seems it is something casually > said to which I attached > >>more than necessary importance. You seem to have > attained the role of > >>some sort of a master in this group wanting your > disciples to hunt for > >>themselves what you hint at. But I dont think this > is an Ashram. This > >>is a forum of discussion where an academic > discussion takes place > >>openly without reservations. Or possibly there may > be other reasons for > >>you not to come out openly. > >>The moral of this story however is clear. > Astrology is a science. It > >>has a method. Under this method several books have > all along treated > >>Jup as a benefic planet and all interpretations > are based on this > >>principle with modifications depending on its > functionality, place, > >>lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a > crazy idea that > >>Jupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( > destroys the house it is > >>placed in), it turns the science from a method > into a madness. It will > >>put doubts into the minds of all astrologists > while interpreting its > >>effects, particularly on young minds aspiring to > learn jyotish. Already > >>I see a discussion started on these lines on this > group which in my > >>opinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. > Everytime one sees Jup in a > >>house, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good > or bad. Some will > >>associate it with good they had in that house and > others with whatever > >>bad they had. > >> > >>So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity > by making radical, > >>unauthenticated and unconventional "advices", you > may do so as this is > >>a free forum. But the least I can say is that this > would be the > >>greatest disservice to the field of Vedic > Astrology. > >>My humble suggestion to learned members would be > to accept any advice > >>only after their own study and research and use > dependable commentators > >>like Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would > be fair to treat any > >>advice seriously only if it is backed up by its > source so as to make > >>independent verification possible unless the > author says it to be his > >>own research/ experience. > >> > >>Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this > discussion as friends > >>(not by coincidence are we both having Jup as > lagnesh). > >>So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I > was on a headlines > >>discussion. > >>Let me now respond to your last two queries.The > reference to Jup in the > >>Second house discussion of BPHS has to be read in > totality i.e all the > >>three shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let > me give a gist of > >>each here > >>First shaloka: Dhanesh in second, quadrants, > trines is dhanvridhikarak > >>(wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite. > >>Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or > aspected by > === message truncated === _________ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger. 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Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekharji, Thanks for your detailed reply. I know that your own approach to astrology is very meticulous, because as you have demonstrated in the analysis of Ramesh’s chart, you’d never make even a minor prediction without evaluating all the influences not only in the natal chart but also in Navamsa. In this connection I fondly remember the conversation Zoran, you and I had in Puri. It is precisely this approach that makes your readings so meaningful. Sir, a person with your knowledge will know when a particular dictum is applicable and when it is not, by weighing the relative indications of the other permutations and combinations existing in the chart. A lay person will not know that and blind application and presumptions based on any dictum would ultimately hurt not only the astrologer but also bring disrepute to this sacred science. This is just my humble opinion. The very 2 nd shloka from BPHS: Dhanaadhipo gururyasya dhanabhaavagatho bhaveth Bhoumena sahitho vaapi dhanavaan sa naro bhaveth Sir, I guess this is the sloka you were presumably referring to. As Razdani had pointed out in an earlier mail, this sloka says that when Jupiter, the karaka for wealth is situated in dhanabhaava OR / AND (api) when he is situated therein with Mars, the native is wealthy. Mars is the natural 1st lord and Jupiter is the natural 9th lord and the their combination is the natural Lakshmi Yoga, which is especially effective if placed in the 2nd house, which is lorded in the natural zodiac by Venus, whose adhi devata is Maha Lakshmi !! Such a yoga would definitely bestow more riches than if jupiter were alone in 2nd house. Here Parasara does not seem to have given much weightage to Mars’s lordship of 8th house and Jupiter’s lordship of 12th house and seems to have concentrated only on their Moolatrikonas, whose results would ofcourse, dominate over that of own houses. Regarding the effects of Saturn in 2nd house, let me quote the 13th shloka which goes as Dhanemande dhanerdeeno vaatapitta kaphaaturah Dehaasthi pitta rogascha gunau swalpopi jaayathe Meaning, where Saturn is placed in 2nd house, the native is not only subjected to poverty but also subjected to various diseases or/and is also bereft of good qualities. Certainly does not look like “vriddhi” to me!! Ofcourse, the above slokas will have to be read, understood, modified and applied in the context of the planets’ dignities and functionalities. Please tell me if there are any other slokas in BPHS, which state contrarily and I would like to go through them for my benefit. As far as I can recall, the references to Shalivahana and Dharmaraja occur in the chapters dealing with vaiseshikamsas or the divisional dignities of raja yoga causing planets. The comments are based on a) higher vaiseshikamsas result only if the planets are posited repeatedly in several vargas in exaltation/own house , and thus are exceedingly strong. b) and since we are discussing raja yogas, the planets concerned are Kendra & trinal lords, hence functional benefics. It goes without saying that the usual riders apply here also, and the great people had their own share of troubles, but the rajayogas they had were so powerful that they ultimately triumphed and were immortalised in the memory of people. Any other reference in the BPHS to them, Sir? I could have missed it. Regards, Lakshmi Dear Lakshmi,This reference is given by Narayan Bhatt the author of Chamatkar Chintamani. He has not mentioned the Purana in which it appears. Had I known that I would certainly have given the same.Parashara's views are no different if one delves deep into what he has said about yogas involving Guru. Guru being termed benefic and the word being associated with Deeksha or Shiksha Guru, we sometimes fail to correlate the yogas to how Guru delivers results. Look at what Parashara says about results of Guru in second house and then think why he attributes Good results if he is in own house or conjuncts Mars. The implication is that otherwise these results would not ensue. About looking at a chart from non integrated point of view, I presume you are referring to the shlokas given. While I agree with you about an integrated approach, it is better not to forget that all Sages have given such references including the Great Parashara himself (Look at what he says about certain yogas in Shalivahana and Yudhishthira"s Chart in times to come). It does not mean that the sages are having a one sided approach. This is done to high light and illustrate a particular position of Graha/s in order to make it easy to understand for the laymen.Regards,Chandrashekhar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Respected Chandraji & list Gurus, I have a novice question, can we incorporate exalation also in guru in 2nd own house theory? I am almost certain that Not, however you all know best...Please respond as i have exalted 2nd Guru with LL budh. sincerely; yobrevol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Dear Rama, Jupiter gives good results in 2nd if in own house as in your case. Having said that some obstacles in area of education of Family matters can not be ruled out. Chandrashekhar. rama_gogineni2002 wrote: Hi All, I have Retrograded Jupiter in Second house which is Sagittarius. This Jupiter has the aspects of Mars, Venus and Moon from eigth house. I am doing very well financially. Regards, Rama Krishna vedic astrology, sridhar k <kopparsa> wrote: > We are over 1000 members in the group. Each one of has JUPITER in some house, and Saturn in one House. Why not each send his/her experience so that we can have a statistical study on the DICTUM JUPITER SPOILS the House he Resides in. Saturn Protects the House in which he resides. > I have JUP in the 6th House, SAT in 5th House; > I have very good relations with my 3 sons. With Jup. 6th House, I have had health Problems, only during the Sub-periods of Jupiter, But on the other aspects of Success over enemies etc. JUP has been favourable. > > > > Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Razdan, > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada in Ghatika Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not Brahma) in shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava Pada Adhyaya again mentions that he is telling the special effects of Pada as told by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions opinion of others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage has in almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one or other of the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage Parashara in the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that Adhyaya Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of many Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what had been revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect to the Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other Rishis and Acharyas. > > Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the shlokas that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which the shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the shlokas and the later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar Chintamani further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one indication of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a shloka from Purana which says: > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in Lagna, Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested Satwa of King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face Cheerharana. Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru killed Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It further says that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in 2nd, King Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account of Guru in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on account of Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables (Abhakshya) on account of his Guru in 9th." > > I would not like to respond to your other comments but would like to mention here that the group is formed with an intention of learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not open to interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for. > Chandrashekhar. > > PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my reasoning. Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself which gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his father the great Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your shaloka quoting a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but only one sage-I was incorrect because the noun andverb is singular) would be like showing candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is going to serve any purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of the shalok you are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is something casually said to which I attachedmore than necessary importance. You seem to have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in this group wanting your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint at. But I dont think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion where an academic discussion takes placeopenly without reservations. Or possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to come out > openly.The moral of this story however is clear. Astrology is a science. Ithas a method. Under this method several books have all along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all interpretations are based on thisprinciple with modifications depending on its functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If you now put forth a crazy idea thatJupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet ( destroys the house it isplaced in), it turns the science from a method into a madness. It willput doubts into the minds of all astrologists while interpreting itseffects, particularly on young minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a discussion started on these lines on this group which in myopinion is energy wasted on a wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse, a doubt will arise as to whether it is good or bad. Some willassociate it with good they had in that house and others with whateverbad they had.So if you are determined to reap cheap publicity by making radical,unauthenticated and > unconventional "advices", you may do so as this isa free forum. But the least I can say is that this would be thegreatest disservice to the field of Vedic Astrology.My humble suggestion to learned members would be to accept any advice only after their own study and research and use dependable commentatorslike Raman, Rao etc.for clarifications. It would be fair to treat anyadvice seriously only if it is backed up by its source so as to makeindependent verification possible unless the author says it to be hisown research/ experience. Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion as friends (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh).So far I didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last two queries.The reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of BPHS has to be read in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the 3rd only. Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst shaloka: Dhanesh in second, > quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak(wealth giving) in 6,8,12 opposite.Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or aspected bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite effect. Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long as it is known as abenefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver according to this shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is also posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed with it, then the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not mean that if Mars is not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house. This is an implication which you are trying to make outprobably to make your Muni's dictum hold good. Parashara never meansit. He means to say that while a swagrahi jupiter in second is enoughto make one rich but with Mars there it adds to ones wealth. Mark thesanskrit words "Vapi" meaning 'in addition".And then you are contradicting your own self since even without Mars,Jupiter would still be swagrahi which as per > your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes necessary to support? As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting theshaloka since I have a different edition. There is no chapter onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has no shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Razdan,I am amused at the reasoning put forward by you that if some author quotes some other authority, he is not an authority on the subject.If that be so all those you treat as authorities, including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not heard of Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of ignoramus. All of those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of others by either referring totheir names or saying precisely what the shloka says that is "so sayMunis". So rest assured none of the Acharyas and Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason I am not giving the name of theauthority is I want people to read various texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts and it takes time to remember the name of author of each and every shloka one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to read commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be reduced to almost one or two as every author of note, states at the beginning > of his text that he is only telling whatothers have told before him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira.Maitreya also asks Parashara that as he has till now told principlesof astrology on the basis of what others have told he should give a relatively easy method so that transit of planets could be used for prediction by those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga inBPHS.Could you explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What isthe reason for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd when placed in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one wealthy, implying that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in 2ndwould not be capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason out why CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya Vridhi it has to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house. Think why > Jupiter by himself doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have already read the shalok quoted by you insupport of your contention. jIv> SvSwanhNta vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy ànòa.But please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish thethesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be backed up by theauthor, his standing in the astrological field, the time when it wassaid and the context in which it was said. Literally translated, theShalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and dignifies > > the > > house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the house it is > > in > > while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the words "vdit > > muinvra" > > i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is somebodyelse's quote and not that of its author. Who is the author of thisblatant theory after all?Chandarshekharji, you are making an important and revolutionarystatement which if followed shall change the entire structure of > > Vedic > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all must > > have > > stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You have > > therefore > > to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be written byanybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. It does notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because it is > > written > > in sanskrit.At one stage you said this is a shaloka and we need not go into itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author who is so respected > > in > > this field that we donot question his authority. In your other mail you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt.Gopeshkumar Oza and Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read > > commentaries > > and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very well. So, as a learned Guru please favour all of us with the backgroundinformation on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning whyyou are so convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives ofhuman beings.I shall not go into the discussion of individual charts as it is > > common > > knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are now > > holding > > Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the lives of > > these > > people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi has verynicely handled this issue and replied the post point by point.Pran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Razdan,I have already given the relevant shloka and others have given > > other > > shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the archivesbut it appears you have not done so. Have you found shloka aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in progeny at least?You have mentioned many personalities, how much do you know abouttheir personal lives to say that Jupiter has not harmed the house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? Check up. Also > > check > > up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand what Guru inLagna can do.I have not made any sweeping statement. If you read the list, manyhave agreed to what I have said from their own experience. I have alsosaid that one has to apply the dictum in proper perspective to get > > correct > > results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like all planetsgive good results in own house and all planets are capable of giving > > good > > results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen times that no > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be appliedafter taking into consideration all variables.The case mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house orSaturn who protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I remember > > right. > > The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana rakshatimandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained are in keeping with thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on this subject all along but > > failed > > > > to > > get your source of conviction.We all agree that Jup too has its unfavourable positions and > > traits. > > We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is a > > functional > > malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know that it > > gets > > KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only holding beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend the > > argument > > further by making them good or bad. These are well established > > === message truncated === _______________________________Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger. > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > vedic astrology/ > > > vedic astrology > > Terms of Service. > > > > alternate email is raichuranant@i...:Location Bombay India > > > > vote. - Register online to vote today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Dear Yobrevol, Exception is only when he is in his own house. In your chart not only will Jupiter attract Kendradhipati Dosha he would also be a Marakesh. having said that do not forget that he aspects 6th,8th and 10th Bhavas where he will give good results. So on work front there should be no problem. You may find it difficult to save moneys in proportion to your earnings or some trouble in family could occur, education could also have a bit of up and down. Chandrashekhar. Yobrevol (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Respected Chandraji & list Gurus, I have a novice question, can we incorporate exalation also in guru in 2nd own house theory? I am almost certain that Not, however you all know best...Please respond as i have exalted 2nd Guru with LL budh. sincerely; yobrevol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Respected Chandrashekhar ji, Dhanyavaad for your response. On education front i think i am already done (atleast official degree wise). Looking at my rashi chart and navamasha, i am almost certain that the family front trouble would involve my about-to-be wife, since Guru is in Mooltrikona 8th in D-9, with natural (weak from D-1) significator for wife, venus, exalted in 6th. As far as work/career goes, it really does not exists as of yet, but as you said, that should change. Interestingly, at the time my holy matrimony is fixed to be performed, Guru will be transiting the 2nd house from my about-to-be wifes UL. Can you please throw some light on how strong a savior are these Transit aspects in general...considering that it is ones' karma cleansing to go thru such life experiences. Also, in theory, any major incidences like these show in both the jatakas charts. charansparsh; Yobrevol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Dear Lakshmi, I am glad you went to the trouble of looking at the shloka. The reason of mars being necessary with jupiter if Jupiter is not in own house has to do with Mars defeating or overpowering Jupiter when conjunct and therefore his 8th house lord ship only supports this (for natural Zodiac). I always have said about "Sthana Rakshati mandaH" so the question of vriddhi is not involved. The explanation of the dictum is that Saturn will not harm even if it does not protect the house he is posited in. This is why Saturn is not subject to Karaka Bhava Nasha when in 8 house. If you read the shloka on Saturn, quoted, carefully you will observe that Parashara is talking about the 7th house aspect of Saturn on 8th house (health) and his 10th drishti on 11th house (income). Had he intended 2nd house indication he would have talked about Face, Speech and Sanchita Dhana. Regards, Chandrashekhar. lakshmi ramesh wrote: Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekharji, Thanks for your detailed reply. I know that your own approach to astrology is very meticulous, because as you have demonstrated in the analysis of Ramesh’s chart, you’d never make even a minor prediction without evaluating all the influences not only in the natal chart but also in Navamsa. In this connection I fondly remember the conversation Zoran, you and I had in Puri. It is precisely this approach that makes your readings so meaningful. Sir, a person with your knowledge will know when a particular dictum is applicable and when it is not, by weighing the relative indications of the other permutations and combinations existing in the chart. A lay person will not know that and blind application and presumptions based on any dictum would ultimately hurt not only the astrologer but also bring disrepute to this sacred science. This is just my humble opinion. The very 2 nd shloka from BPHS: Dhanaadhipo gururyasya dhanabhaavagatho bhaveth Bhoumena sahitho vaapi dhanavaan sa naro bhaveth Sir, I guess this is the sloka you were presumably referring to. As Razdani had pointed out in an earlier mail, this sloka says that when Jupiter, the karaka for wealth is situated in dhanabhaava OR / AND (api) when he is situated therein with Mars, the native is wealthy. Mars is the natural 1st lord and Jupiter is the natural 9th lord and the their combination is the natural Lakshmi Yoga, which is especially effective if placed in the 2nd house, which is lorded in the natural zodiac by Venus, whose adhi devata is Maha Lakshmi !! Such a yoga would definitely bestow more riches than if jupiter were alone in 2nd house. Here Parasara does not seem to have given much weightage to Mars’s lordship of 8th house and Jupiter’s lordship of 12th house and seems to have concentrated only on their Moolatrikonas, whose results would ofcourse, dominate over that of own houses. Regarding the effects of Saturn in 2nd house, let me quote the 13th shloka which goes as Dhanemande dhanerdeeno vaatapitta kaphaaturah Dehaasthi pitta rogascha gunau swalpopi jaayathe Meaning, where Saturn is placed in 2nd house, the native is not only subjected to poverty but also subjected to various diseases or/and is also bereft of good qualities. Certainly does not look like “vriddhi” to me!! Ofcourse, the above slokas will have to be read, understood, modified and applied in the context of the planets’ dignities and functionalities. Please tell me if there are any other slokas in BPHS, which state contrarily and I would like to go through them for my benefit. As far as I can recall, the references to Shalivahana and Dharmaraja occur in the chapters dealing with vaiseshikamsas or the divisional dignities of raja yoga causing planets. The comments are based on a) higher vaiseshikamsas result only if the planets are posited repeatedly in several vargas in exaltation/own house , and thus are exceedingly strong. b) and since we are discussing raja yogas, the planets concerned are Kendra & trinal lords, hence functional benefics. It goes without saying that the usual riders apply here also, and the great people had their own share of troubles, but the rajayogas they had were so powerful that they ultimately triumphed and were immortalised in the memory of people. Any other reference in the BPHS to them, Sir? I could have missed it. Regards, Lakshmi Dear Lakshmi, This reference is given by Narayan Bhatt the author of Chamatkar Chintamani. He has not mentioned the Purana in which it appears. Had I known that I would certainly have given the same. Parashara's views are no different if one delves deep into what he has said about yogas involving Guru. Guru being termed benefic and the word being associated with Deeksha or Shiksha Guru, we sometimes fail to correlate the yogas to how Guru delivers results. Look at what Parashara says about results of Guru in second house and then think why he attributes Good results if he is in own house or conjuncts Mars. The implication is that otherwise these results would not ensue. About looking at a chart from non integrated point of view, I presume you are referring to the shlokas given. While I agree with you about an integrated approach, it is better not to forget that all Sages have given such references including the Great Parashara himself (Look at what he says about certain yogas in Shalivahana and Yudhishthira"s Chart in times to come). It does not mean that the sages are having a one sided approach. This is done to high light and illustrate a particular position of Graha/s in order to make it easy to understand for the laymen. Regards, Chandrashekhar. New and Improved Mail - 100MB free storage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekhar ji, I am glad you went to the trouble of looking at the shloka. Lakshmi: Sir, I am treating this entire exercise as a learning experience. Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. The reason of mars being necessary with jupiter if Jupiter is not in own house has to do with Mars defeating or overpowering Jupiter when conjunct and therefore his 8th house lord ship only supports this (for natural Zodiac). Lakshmi: Sir, if you look carefully at the sloka, it does not mention the necessity of Mars being with Jupiter for providing wealth, but "adds" that such a combination would also make the native wealthy. The first condition is stated in the 1st line and if Parasara had truly insisted on the necessity of Jupiter & Mars combination, he would have used the word “Bhouma-yuthe” in the first line itself and would not have talked in a round about fashion. I am sure Parasara is also unlikely to use words like “api” & “sahithe” superfluously, or for the sake of rhetoric, as our Rishis are known for the extraordinary economy & accuracy of their expression. Where money matters are concerned 8th house indicates unearned wealth, lotteries etc, so even the 8th lordship of Mars would not adversely affect the wealth of the native. If Mars is not in his own house, I am sure he too can not overpower Jupiter and here we need to consider a lot more factors. I always have said about "Sthana Rakshati mandaH" so the question of vriddhi is not involved. The explanation of the dictum is that Saturn will not harm even if it does not protect the house he is posited in. This is why Saturn is not subject to Karaka Bhava Nasha when in 8 house New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">. Lakshmi: Sir, the much quoted dictum unfortunately implied otherwise. I beg your pardon if I am mistaken. And in this regard, I would like to refer to the shlokas 14-16 of chapter 13 of BPHS, which deal with the prosperity or annihilation of the house. The gist is that the learned should predict the prosperity of the house in which there is the occupation of, or which is aspected by benefics or its own lord, or when the Lord of the house is in a good state/ avastha like yuva etc, or in the 10th house. In all these situations the astrologer may indicate the well being of the house, and the house gives good results. On the other hand, the house, whose lord is destroyed, or is in conjunction with malefics, or is not aspected by its own lord or by benefics or is in combination with the lords of the evil houses (3,6,8,11 and 12), or is defeated in a planetary war or is in any one of the three states/avasthas (vriddha, mrita or nidra), the astrologer may predict with certainty that the native will suffer losses in the things indicated by that house. Sir, I leave further interpretation to you, seeing that Jupiter is a natural benefic and Saturn is a natural malefic. If you want, I can type out the shlokas as well. If you read the shloka on Saturn, quoted, carefully you will observe that Parashara is talking about the 7th house aspect of Saturn on 8th house (health) and his 10th drishti on 11th house (income). Had he intended 2nd house indication he would have talked about Face, Speech and Sanchita Dhana. Lakshmi: That’s a lovely observation indeed and it is so very true! However a) 2nd house is also the maraka house and Saturn there can give sickness. Saturn in 8th will bestow longevity, but can also give the referred sicknesses. (ref “How to Judge Horoscopes , Vol II, by B V Raman). b) The reference to “good qualities” may include facial expression, speech etc, through which an impression is formed about the native. Saturn in 2nd is said to give harsh speech and sullen/defiant expression and anti-social behaviour. (Ref: How to judge horoscopes Vol I) c) The shloka unambiguously states that it is dhana ( can include sanchita + aarjita dhana over a period of time) that would be adversely affected. Regards, Lakshmi Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Dear Lakshmi,I am glad you went to the trouble of looking at the shloka. The reason of mars being necessary with jupiter if Jupiter is not in own house has to do with Mars defeating or overpowering Jupiter when conjunct and therefore his 8th house lord ship only supports this (for natural Zodiac). I always have said about "Sthana Rakshati mandaH" so the question of vriddhi is not involved. The explanation of the dictum is that Saturn will not harm even if it does not protect the house he is posited in. This is why Saturn is not subject to Karaka Bhava Nasha when in 8 house. If you read the shloka on Saturn, quoted, carefully you will observe that Parashara is talking about the 7th house aspect of Saturn on 8th house (health) and his 10th drishti on 11th house (income). Had he intended 2nd house indication he would have talked about Face, Speech and Sanchita Dhana.Regards,Chandrashekhar.lakshmi ramesh wrote: Om Gurave Namah Namaste Chandrasekharji, Thanks for your detailed reply. I know that your own approach to astrology is very meticulous, because as you have demonstrated in the analysis of Ramesh’s chart, you’d never make even a minor prediction without evaluating all the influences not only in the natal chart but also in Navamsa. In this connection I fondly remember the conversation Zoran, you and I had in Puri. It is precisely this approach that makes your readings so meaningful. Sir, a person with your knowledge will know when a particular dictum is applicable and when it is not, by weighing the relative indications of the other permutations and combinations existing in the chart. A lay person will not know that and blind application and presumptions based on any dictum would ultimately hurt not only the astrologer but also bring disrepute to this sacred science. This is just my humble opinion. The very 2 nd shloka from BPHS: Dhanaadhipo gururyasya dhanabhaavagatho bhaveth Bhoumena sahitho vaapi dhanavaan sa naro bhaveth Sir, I guess this is the sloka you were presumably referring to. As Razdani had pointed out in an earlier mail, this sloka says that when Jupiter, the karaka for wealth is situated in dhanabhaava OR / AND (api) when he is situated therein with Mars, the native is wealthy. Mars is the natural 1st lord and Jupiter is the natural 9th lord and the their combination is the natural Lakshmi Yoga, which is especially effective if placed in the 2nd house, which is lorded in the natural zodiac by Venus, whose adhi devata is Maha Lakshmi !! Such a yoga would definitely bestow more riches than if jupiter were alone in 2nd house. Here Parasara does not seem to have given much weightage to Mars’s lordship of 8th house and Jupiter’s lordship of 12th house and seems to have concentrated only on their Moolatrikonas, whose results would ofcourse, dominate over that of own houses. Regarding the effects of Saturn in 2nd house, let me quote the 13th shloka which goes as Dhanemande dhanerdeeno vaatapitta kaphaaturah Dehaasthi pitta rogascha gunau swalpopi jaayathe Meaning, where Saturn is placed in 2nd house, the native is not only subjected to poverty but also subjected to various diseases or/and is also bereft of good qualities. Certainly does not look like “vriddhi” to me!! Ofcourse, the above slokas will have to be read, understood, modified and applied in the context of the planets’ dignities and functionalities. Please tell me if there are any other slokas in BPHS, which state contrarily and I would like to go through them for my benefit. As far as I can recall, the references to Shalivahana and Dharmaraja occur in the chapters dealing with vaiseshikamsas or the divisional dignities of raja yoga causing planets. The comments are based on a) higher vaiseshikamsas result only if the planets are posited repeatedly in several vargas in exaltation/own house , and thus are exceedingly strong. b) and since we are discussing raja yogas, the planets concerned are Kendra & trinal lords, hence functional benefics. It goes without saying that the usual riders apply here also, and the great people had their own share of troubles, but the rajayogas they had were so powerful that they ultimately triumphed and were immortalised in the memory of people. Any other reference in the BPHS to them, Sir? I could have missed it. Regards, Lakshmi Dear Lakshmi,This reference is given by Narayan Bhatt the author of Chamatkar Chintamani. He has not mentioned the Purana in which it appears. Had I known that I would certainly have given the same.Parashara's views are no different if one delves deep into what he has said about yogas involving Guru. Guru being termed benefic and the word being associated with Deeksha or Shiksha Guru, we sometimes fail to correlate the yogas to how Guru delivers results. Look at what Parashara says about results of Guru in second house and then think why he attributes Good results if he is in own house or conjuncts Mars. The implication is that otherwise these results would not ensue. About looking at a chart from non integrated point of view, I presume you are referring to the shlokas given. While I agree with you about an integrated approach, it is better not to forget that all Sages have given such references including the Great Parashara himself (Look at what he says about certain yogas in Shalivahana and Yudhishthira"s Chart in times to come). It does not mean that the sages are having a one sided approach. This is done to high light and illustrate a particular position of Graha/s in order to make it easy to understand for the laymen.Regards,Chandrashekhar. Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Tired of spam? 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