Guest guest Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Pradeep, It was written by Visti sometime ago that malefics change the environment to suit themselves and benefics like Jupiter burn their own houses! i tend to agree with this line of thinking. does this make sense to you and explains why Jupiter and Saturn work contrary to what we expect. Hope this helps. pls do share with us your experiences. regards viswanadham vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members. > > I have seen from the archives ,where you had participated in > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy the bhava in > which > it is placed and Saturn Protects. > > Here I have some queries. > > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter to try and > harm > or destroy. > > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses (6,8,12 etc) - > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad > (negative,negative results in positive) should bring good. But if > saturn > can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the above > statement > loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding of this > 'negative-negative' is wrong. > > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel it can test > the > individual always on the path of life,which can be painfull and hard > as > well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an individual can > combat > the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of patience and > other > mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right? > > But why is it trying to destroy? > > Also doesn't other considerations like strength,position etc come > into > play while deciding on this? > > If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by virtue of > which > it > is trying to behave like this, it would be helpful. > > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good and bad) about > jupiter placed in ascendant. > > Thanks a lot > Pradeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Dear Vishwanadham ji Thanks for the reply But i have one doubt. In that case malefics like saturn should adapt themselves to any adverse situation and protect.Is this true always? But why is jupiter unable to adapt? do you mean if jupiter experiences or feel asatya or evil practices in his 'house' - he will burn the house down in anger? Because otherwise i feel jupiter according to its nature can take more pain and has got lots of patience.It should be the last person to burn his house due to difficult situations. Thanks Pradeep vedic astrology, "vishwanatham" <vishwanatham@r...> wrote: > Hare Rama Krishna > > Dear Pradeep, > > It was written by Visti sometime ago that malefics change the > environment to suit themselves and benefics like Jupiter burn their > own houses! i tend to agree with this line of thinking. > > does this make sense to you and explains why Jupiter and Saturn work > contrary to what we expect. > > Hope this helps. > > pls do share with us your experiences. > > regards > viswanadham > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members. > > > > I have seen from the archives ,where you had participated in > > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy the bhava in > > which > > it is placed and Saturn Protects. > > > > Here I have some queries. > > > > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter to try and > > harm > > or destroy. > > > > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses (6,8,12 > etc) - > > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad > > (negative,negative results in positive) should bring good. But if > > saturn > > can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the above > > statement > > loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding of this > > 'negative-negative' is wrong. > > > > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel it can test > > the > > individual always on the path of life,which can be painfull and > hard > > as > > well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an individual can > > combat > > the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of patience and > > other > > mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right? > > > > But why is it trying to destroy? > > > > Also doesn't other considerations like strength,position etc come > > into > > play while deciding on this? > > > > If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by virtue of > > which > > it > > is trying to behave like this, it would be helpful. > > > > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good and bad) > about > > jupiter placed in ascendant. > > > > Thanks a lot > > Pradeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Dear Pradeep, Certain principles are given by the sages and are found to be true in their application. Having said that, have you observed that the children living with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? This is what happens with Jupiter placement in a house. You will also not ,if one wants to go to Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the Daanaavas more often than other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. Devas invariably got defeated and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, Vishnu, Durga etc. Saturn usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi Rahu was their Senapati. About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do with his ability to protect. He protects one from bad indications of that house. These are my personal opinions and other worthies might have different opinions. Chandrashekhar. ---- Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members.I have seen from the archives ,where you had participated indiscussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy the bhava in whichit is placed and Saturn Protects.Here I have some queries.What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter to try and harmor destroy.Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses (6,8,12 etc) -because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad(negative,negative results in positive) should bring good. But if saturncan protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the above statementloses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding of this'negative-negative' is wrong.When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel it can test theindividual always on the path of life,which can be painfull and hard aswell at times. Why is this? Is it because such an individual can combatthe tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of patience and othermental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right? But why is it trying to destroy? Also doesn't other considerations like strength,position etc come intoplay while deciding on this?If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by virtue of which itis trying to behave like this, it would be helpful. Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good and bad) aboutjupiter placed in ascendant.Thanks a lot PradeepArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-........ May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... __ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here Attachment: (image/gif) IMSTP.gif [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Dear Vishwanadham ji you can call me pradeep :-) Thanks for the explanation.I feel your explanation sounds logical. After chandrashekar jis mail, i too feel the same. But i have to say ,there is an ambiguity when we say jupiter 'destroys'. I will express my views while answering to chandrashekarjis mail. Thanks again Pradeep vedic astrology, "vishwanatham" <vishwanatham@r...> wrote: > > Hare Rama Krishna > > Dear Pradeepji, > > I'm inclined to think that Jupiter in the native protects the Dharma > at the cost of oneself (in a material sense). it is the other way > round with Saturn viz., at any cost Saturn would like to protect > itself. Selfless vs selfish. > > When we say Jupiter or Saturn, it is as if they are *in* the native, > rather than helping the native from *outside*. So here the native is > trying to protect himself as opposed to help protect Dharma. > > Also, natural benefics are those which protect the nature as per Sri > Sanjayji. So, i assume the converse is true for Natural malefics. > > it is also worth considering that Saturn makes one to commit sin and > thereafter punishes also- i remember seeing it in Sri Narasimha's > post. > > Overall, these are some strings of thoughts, which you may tie > together with the help of Jupiter in you. > > Many thanks for provoking the thoughts & with regards > i remain > viswanadham > vedic astrology, "dream_mydreams" > <dream_mydreams> wrote: > > Dear Vishwanadham ji > > > > Thanks for the reply > > But i have one doubt. > > > > In that case malefics like saturn should adapt themselves to any > > adverse situation and protect.Is this true always? > > > > But why is jupiter unable to adapt? do you mean if jupiter > > experiences or feel asatya or evil practices in his 'house' - he > > will burn the house down in anger? > > > > Because otherwise i feel jupiter according to its nature can take > > more pain and has got lots of patience.It should be the last person > > to burn his house due to difficult situations. > > > > Thanks > > Pradeep > > vedic astrology, "vishwanatham" > > <vishwanatham@r...> wrote: > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > It was written by Visti sometime ago that malefics change the > > > environment to suit themselves and benefics like Jupiter burn > > their > > > own houses! i tend to agree with this line of thinking. > > > > > > does this make sense to you and explains why Jupiter and Saturn > > work > > > contrary to what we expect. > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > pls do share with us your experiences. > > > > > > regards > > > viswanadham > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Dear Chandrashekar ji I now understand why Jupiter placement can result in difficult outcomes. Do you mean to say if jupiter is placed in puthrasthana ,then the individuals can be intelligent but their children will suffer.This is just to make sure, if i have understood your example. But i have one slight difference in opinion regarding the statement - 'Jupiter destroys or harms'. This statement makes us puzzled about the meaning vis-a-vis the nature of Jupiter. Because when we say it destroys - it means jupiter's action was intented towards destruction.But that is not the case.Jupiter tends to stick to principles even during adverse situations.This behaviour makes him unable to protect.But his intention was never to destroy nor the behaviour deserves destruction. But if you take another example When Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved destruction. Though both the behaviours resulted(ends) in the destruction of the 'houses',the means are not the same. Hence i believe if we say Jupiter is unable to protect the house in which it is placed,during all circumstances, it becomes less ambigue - vis-a-vis its nature,because destruction was never intended. Though the end result is same i feel there is a difference in the inherent meaning. Kindly correct me if i am wrong. Also should one learn something from this lesson - to live in Kali Yuga! Thanks and respect Pradeep vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Pradeep, > Certain principles are given by the sages and are found to be true in their > application. Having said that, have you observed that the children living > with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? This is what happens with > Jupiter placement in a house. You will also not ,if one wants to go to > Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the Daanaavas more often than > other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. Devas invariably got > defeated and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, Vishnu, Durga etc. Saturn > usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi Rahu was their Senapati. > About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do with his ability to protect. > He protects one from bad indications of that house. These are my personal > opinions and other worthies might have different opinions. > Chandrashekhar. > > ---- > > vedic astrology > Monday, August 25, 2003 08:17:02 PM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house > it and Saturn Protects// > > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members. > > I have seen from the archives ,where you had participated in > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy the bhava in > which > it is placed and Saturn Protects. > > Here I have some queries. > > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter to try and > harm > or destroy. > > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses (6,8,12 etc) - > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad > (negative,negative results in positive) should bring good. But if > saturn > can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the above > statement > loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding of this > 'negative-negative' is wrong. > > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel it can test > the > individual always on the path of life,which can be painfull and hard > as > well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an individual can > combat > the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of patience and > other > mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right? > > But why is it trying to destroy? > > Also doesn't other considerations like strength,position etc come > into > play while deciding on this? > > If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by virtue of > which > it > is trying to behave like this, it would be helpful. > > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good and bad) about > jupiter placed in ascendant. > > Thanks a lot > Pradeep > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Chandrashekharji Namste As usual you explained the things very lucidly but just slight doubt. It is said many times that Guru is Dharma (not religion) and it is as well said that Guru tries to uphold Dharma but usually fails. Hence Dharma fails. But many say Dharma never fails. So Guru should also never fail. Then why it fails with respect to house? Does MAYA play any role in this? Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. AmolMAndar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Dear Amolmandar, I will give you an example outside astrology and religion.Guru represents Minister or the teacher . Now teacher tells that which is right. Students many a times feel unconfortable in the presence of the Teacher as he monitors their behaviour, specially if in their youth they want to do something which the Guru forbids being bad.Simialr is the case with the king whose ministers forbids him from doing something that is against RajDharma. Now imagine House where Jupiter is posited being the student/King and Jupiter being the Teacher. The results for the house would be clear. Of course , as I said earlier this is only my way at looking at it in order to understand why this happens, and the Sages' principles are given to us as such without the reasons behind them. We have to apply our Viveka to fathom the logic behind it.Other worthies might hold different views. Hope this helps understand the concept. Chandrashekhar. amolmandar [amolmandar ]Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:39 PMvedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects//Chandrashekharji NamsteAs usual you explained the things very lucidly but just slight doubt. It is said many times that Guru is Dharma (not religion) and it is as well said that Guru tries to uphold Dharma but usually fails. Hence Dharma fails. But many say Dharma never fails. So Guru should also never fail. Then why it fails with respect to house? Does MAYA play any role in this?Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.AmolMAndarArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Dear Pradeep, The confusion arises because of the fact that some Sanskrita words loose their import when translated to English. The shloka does not say Damage or Harm. It says"Bhrashta". The word has different conotations depending on the context. Like Sthanabhrashta would be something like loosing one's place whereas Sheelabhrashta would mean one whose moral are loose. The same when said to be done by other would mean harming or damaging other's modesty. Limitations of the language does sometimes pose a problem in conveyance of the corect meaning of sanskrita words. This is why I have said many a times that Astrology is better understood if one learns it in Sanskrit or Sanskrit based Indian languages. Hope this helps, Chandrashekhar. vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep ]Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:38 PMTo: vedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects//Dear Chandrashekar jiI now understand why Jupiter placement can result in difficult outcomes.Do you mean to say if jupiter is placed in puthrasthana ,then the individuals can be intelligent but their children will suffer.This is just to make sure, if i have understood your example.But i have one slight difference in opinion regarding the statement -'Jupiter destroys or harms'.This statement makes us puzzled about the meaning vis-a-vis the nature of Jupiter.Because when we say it destroys - it means jupiter's action was intented towards destruction.But that is not the case.Jupiter tends to stick to principles even during adverse situations.This behaviour makes him unable to protect.But his intention was never to destroy nor the behaviour deserves destruction.But if you take another exampleWhen Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved destruction.Though both the behaviours resulted(ends) in the destruction of the 'houses',the means are not the same.Hence i believe if we say Jupiter is unable to protect the house in which it is placed,during all circumstances, it becomes less ambigue -vis-a-vis its nature,because destruction was never intended.Though the end result is same i feel there is a difference in the inherent meaning.Kindly correct me if i am wrong.Also should one learn something from this lesson - to live in Kali Yuga!Thanks and respectPradeep--- In vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote:> Dear Pradeep,> Certain principles are given by the sages and are found to be true in their> application. Having said that, have you observed that the children living> with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? This is what happens with> Jupiter placement in a house. You will also not ,if one wants to go to> Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the Daanaavas more often than> other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. Devas invariably got> defeated and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, Vishnu, Durga etc. Saturn> usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi Rahu was their Senapati.> About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do with his ability to protect.> He protects one from bad indications of that house. These are my personal> opinions and other worthies might have different opinions.> Chandrashekhar.> > -------Original Message-------> > vedic astrology> Monday, August 25, 2003 08:17:02 PM> vedic astrology> Subject: [vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house> it and Saturn Protects//> > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members.> > I have seen from the archives ,where you had participated in> discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy the bhava in > which> it is placed and Saturn Protects.> > Here I have some queries.> > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter to try and > harm> or destroy.> > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses (6,8,12 etc) -> because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad> (negative,negative results in positive) should bring good. But if > saturn> can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the above > statement> loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding of this> 'negative-negative' is wrong.> > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel it can test > the> individual always on the path of life,which can be painfull and hard > as> well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an individual can > combat> the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of patience and > other> mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right? > > But why is it trying to destroy? > > Also doesn't other considerations like strength,position etc come > into> play while deciding on this?> > If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by virtue of > which > it> is trying to behave like this, it would be helpful. > > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good and bad) about> jupiter placed in ascendant.> > Thanks a lot > Pradeep> > > > Sponsor> > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ........ May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > Terms of Service.Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Jyotishas, Regarding Jupiter in various houses and signs below is something from Saaraavalli. It seems that Jupiter enhances the both the Sign qualities and house qualities. Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran Ch. 27. Effects of Jupiter in Various Signs 1-2. JUPITER IN ARIES. If Jupiter is posited in Aries at birth, one will be argumentative in disposition, will acquire precious stones and ornaments out of his efforts, will be endowed with strength, sons and wealth, will have eminent and famous profession, be splendourous, will have many enemies, much expenses and an injured body and will confer fierce and cruel punishments. 3-4. Should Jupiter be in Taurus, one will be endowed with a broad body, be corpulent, will honour Brahmins and Gods, be splendourous, fortunate, attached to his wife, be endowed with good appearance, profession, cows and abundant wealth; will possess good articles and ornaments, be distinguished in speech, intelligence and skill; will have political / judicial wisdom, be modest, be endowed with medical accomplishments and be skillful in experiments. 5-6. Should Jupiter be in Gemini, the native will be affluent, scholarly, proficient, will possess attractive eyes, be eloquent, courteous, skillful, virtuous, will honour elders and relatives, will be able to utter "bejeweled" words (be literally rich in words), which are benevolent in nature, be devoted to his duties and be a good poet. 7-8. If Jupiter be in Cancer at birth, the native will be a scholar, be beautiful, be highly learned, charitable, good-natured, be very strong, be famous, will possess abundant grains and riches, be endowed with truth and penance, will have long-living sons, be honoured by all, will be a king, will have a distinguished profession and will be attached to his friends. 9-10. Should Jupiter be in Leo at the time of birth, the native will be lastingly inimical, be strong, courageous, will show abundant friendship, be learned, rich, will have eminent relatives, be a king, will have heroism akin to that of a king, will be recognizable in an assembly, will destroy the entire band of his enemies, will possess a strong physique and will live in hills, fortresses, forests and temples. 11-12. If Jupiter occupies Virgo at birth, one will be a scholar, be virtuous, be skillful in his work, be fond of scents, robes and flowers, will firmly gain in undertakings, will have rich experience in Śāstras and fine arts, be affluent, charitable, pure-hearted, skillful and wonderfully learned. 13-14. If Jupiter occupies Libra at birth, one will be a scholar, will have many sons, be endowed with foreign assignments, will be very affluent, interested in ornaments, modest, will earn money through dance and drama, be pleasing in appearance, be splendourous, learned in Śāstras, be superior among his colleague-businessmen, will honour Gods and guests and be very learned. 15-16. Should Jupiter at the time of one's birth be in Scorpio, he will be expert in Śāstras, be a king, will be a commentator of many Bhāşyas (a commentary, which explains Sūtras word by word with comments of its own, for example, on Vedas), be skillful, will construct temples and towns, will have many wives, but few sons, be troubled by diseases, will undergo many difficulties, be very fierce, be ostentatious in his performance, be virtuous and will indulge in contemptuous acts. 17-18. If Jupiter occupies Sagittarius at birth, one will be a preceptor, will conduct religious vows, initiations, sacrifices etc., will have lasting wealth, be charitable, be friendly to his own men, be fond of helping others, interested in Shastras, be the head of a zone, or a minister, will live in many countries, will prefer loneliness and be interested in visiting shrines. 19-20. JUPITER IN CAPRICORN. Jupiter in Capricorn denotes, that the native will be less virile, will experience much grief and difficulties, will be mean in conduct, be a dunce, will meet a bad end, will suffer from penury, will serve others, will be bereft of auspiciousness, mercy, purity, affection to his relatives and of religion, will have an emaciated body, be timid, interested in living in other countries and be depressed of spirits. 21-22. JUPITER IN AQUARIUS. If Jupiter falls in Aquarius at the time of birth, one will be a tale-bearer, be ill disposed, interested in evil jobs, be chief among his race men, be always attached to base men, be malicious, miserly, will suffer from diseases, will lose wealth on account his own utterances, be devoid of intelligence and virtues and will violate elder's beds. 23-24. JUPITER IN PISCES. If Jupiter is in Pisces at birth, one will be expert in knowing the meanings of Vedas and other Shastras, will be honoured by friends and virtuous people, will be a headsman in the king's employ, be praiseworthy, unconquerable, rich, devoid of fear, be proud, firm in undertakings, be a king, be skillful in policies, training, behavior and war tactics, be famous and will be calm in his doings. >From Chapter 27 for Saturn 74. If Saturn happens to be in the Ascendant identical with exaltation, or own House, the native will equal a king in status, or will head a country, or city. If Saturn is in the Ascendant in other Rāśis, then his own, or exaltation Rāśi, the planet will give misery in boyhood, dirty disposition and indolence. 75. If Saturn occupies the 2nd, the native will have an ugly face, will enjoy worldly prosperity, be devoid of his own men, will render justice, will later on (in the course of his life) go to other countries and will earn money and conveyances. 76. If Saturn occupies the 3rd, the native will be dark in complexion, will maintain physical cleanliness, be base, will have indolent attendants, be courageous, charitable and will have great intelligence. 77. SATURN IN THE 4th. If Saturn occupies the 4th Bhava, the native will suffer heart disease, or be broken-hearted, be devoid of relatives, conveyances, wealth, intelligence and happiness, will suffer sickness in boyhood and will have (prominent) nails and hair. 78. SATURN IN THE 5th. Should Saturn occupy the 5th Bhava, the native will be bereft of happiness, sons, friends, intelligence and kindness, be agitated and be poor. 79. If Saturn occupies the 6th, the native will be very licentious, be beautiful, courageous, will eat abundantly, be crooked and will conquer many of his enemies. 80. If Saturn is posited in the 7th, the native will always be subjected to ill health, will lose his wife, be bereft of wealth, will present himself ugly, be sinful and will do very mean acts. 81. If Saturn occupies the 8th, the native will suffer from leprosy and fistula in the anus, or pudendum, will have short life and will fail in his undertakings. 82. If Saturn occupies the 9th, the native will be devoid of religious merits, will not have much wealth, be bereft of co-born, sons and happiness and will cause sorrow to others. 83. If Saturn occupies the 10th, the native will be wealthy, learned, valorous and be a minister, or a justice, or be the leader of a group, city, or village. 84. If Saturn occupies the 11th, the native will be long-lived, endowed with lasting riches, be courageous, will have knowledge of arts, be devoid of sickness and be endowed with money, people and wealth. 85. If Saturn occupies the 12th, the native will be distressed, fallen in moral sense, talkative, will have defective eyesight, be unkind, shameless, will spend much and be insulted. Chapter 30 --------- 50. If Jupiter occupies the 1st, the native will be attractive in appearance, energetic, long-lived, will act after assessing consequences, be learned, courageous and great. 51. Jupiter in the 2nd. If Jupiter occupies the 2nd, the native will be rich, will enjoy good food, be an eloquent speaker, be fortunate, be charitable and will have a beautiful body and face. 52. If Jupiter occupies the 3rd, the native will be greatly humiliated, be vile, ever successful, will have digestive deficiencies, be defeated by women and be sinful in acts. 53. If Jupiter occupies the 4th, the native will be endowed with relatives, paraphernalia, conveyance, happiness, intelligence, pleasures and wealth, be great and be a source of misery to his enemies. 54. If Jupiter occupies the 5th, the native will have abundant happiness, many sons and friends, be learned, courageous, wealthy and will always be happy. 55. If Jupiter is in the 6th, the native will lack digestive fire and masculine virile, be humiliated, weak, indolent, will become famous on account of females, will destroy his enemies and be widely famous. 56. If Jupiter occupies the 7th, the native will be charming, will acquire a beautiful wife, be greater than his father, be an eloquent speaker, a poet, a superior person and be learned and famous. 57. If Jupiter occupies the 8th, the native will be insulted, long- lived, be a servant, will serve his own people, be pitiable and will have union with dirty women. 58. If Jupiter is in 9th, the native will be attached to divine and paternal duties, be learned, fortunate, be a king's minister, or a leader and be chief. 59. If Jupiter occupies the 10th, the native will attain successful beginning in his undertaking, be honourable, effortful and will be endowed with abundant welfare, happiness, wealth, relatives, conveyances and fame. 60. If Jupiter occupies the 11th, the native will enjoy many gains, many conveyances and many servants, be virtuous, but will have limited education and few sons. 61. If Jupiter occupies the 12th, the native will be indolent, odious, be devoid of speech and luck and will be in all probability in servitude. Ch. 29. Effects of Saturn in Various Rāśis 1-2. SATURN IN ARIES. If Saturn occupies Aries at the time of one's birth one will be miserable due to his vices and hard labor, be deceitful will hate his relatives, be blameworthy, garrulous, reprobated, poor, bad in appearance, ill-tempered, inimical to his people, will do base acts, be jealous and sinful. 3-4. If Saturn occupies Taurus at the time of one's birth, he will be bereft of wealth, be a servant, will speak undesirable words, be untruthful, will win the hearts of old women, will have bad friends, will be addicted to women, will serve other women, be not outspoken, will have strong sight, be related to numerous assignments and be a fool. 5-6. If Saturn occupies Gemini, one will contract debts and imprisonments, will toil, will have vanity in disposition will consecrate by hymns and prayers, be bereft of virtues, be always in hide-out, be libidinous, cunning, wicked and fond of wandering and of sports. 7-8. SATURN IN CANCER. If Saturn is in Cancer, one will possess a beloved wife, be devoid of wealth in boyhood, will suffer many diseases, be learned, motherless, soft-spoken, distinguished in acts, will always contract diseases, will trouble others, be inimical to relatives, crooked, be kingly in his mid-life and will enjoy growing pleasures. 9-10. SATURN IN LEO. If Saturn occupies Leo, one will be interested in writing and reading, be skillful, be disdained, devoid of virtues and wife, will live by servitude, be devoid of his own men and happiness, be interested in doing base acts, ill-tempered, be mad with (undue) desires, will carry loads, will toil hard and will have a wrinkled body. 11-12. SATURN IN VIRGO. If Saturn occupies Virgo at birth the subject will resemble a eunuch, be very crafty, will depend on others for food, be addicted to prostitutes, will have a few friends, be unacquainted with arts, be desirous of indulging in ugly acts, will possess sons and wealth, be indolent, helpful to others, will intent upon spoiling virgins and be cautious in his actions. 13-14. Saturn posited in Libra at birth indicates, that the subject will be rich, soft-spoken, will earn money and honours from foreign countries, be a king, or a scholar, will have his wealth protected by his relatives, be senior in the circle, will attain a high status owing to his gracious speech in an assemblage, be good and will join corrupt female dancers and prostitutes. 15-16. SATURN IN SCORPIO. If Saturn occupies Scorpio at birth, the native will be hostile, be crooked, affected by poison and weapons, very ill-tempered, miserly, egoistic, rich, capable of stealing others' money, averse to instruments played on festive occasions, malicious, very miserable and will face destruction, misery and diseases. 17-18. SATURN IN SAGITTARIUS. If Saturn occupies Sagittarius, one will be skillful in behavior, teaching, Vedic meanings, learning and denotation, (i.e. he will be best placed in these respects), be famous due to virtuous children, family profession and his own virtues, will enjoy excellent affluence in his old age, will speak less, will have many names and be soft in disposition. 19-20. If Saturn is posited at birth in Capricorn, the native will lord over the lands of others' females, will be endowed with Vedic knowledge, virtues and knowledge of many branches of fine arts, be excellent among his caste-men, be honourable, will respect others, be famous, be interested in bathing and decoration, will be skillful in performance, will live in foreign places, be courageous and be polite in behavior. 21-22. If Saturn is in Aquarius, the native will be a great liar, be eminent, be addicted to women and wine, be wicked, crafty, will fall prey to evil friendship, be very ill-tempered, be averse to knowledge, conversation and traditional law, be addicted to other women, be harsh in speech and will attempt at many undertakings. 23-24. SATURN IN PISCES. If Saturn occupies Pisces at birth, one will be fond of Sacrifices and arts, be chief among his relatives and friends, be calm, will have increasing wealth, be skillful in policy- making, be capable of diamond testing, be virtuous, modest and will later on acquire an authoritative position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Dear Chandrashekar ji This suggestion is really good. I too feel one should learn astrology from the original textual language or its derivatives, after reading your mail. But now after seeing your mail for amol ji,i am still having some doubts. As you have said, even though your example-regarding student,guru and all cannot be generalised - I am taking that example to clear my doubts. Here i believe the nature of the students and guru has to be considered - Similarly the king and minister. If both are of the same nature - then no one has to suffer,'Bhrashta'. 1)Similarly if jupiter is placed in a friendly house or deeptha or swakshethra - harmony is not troubled ,under normal circumstances. 2)But as the lagna or the individual is subject to various influences within the chart - there can be disharmony. Hence do you consider my point(1) as haaving some relevance? or shld we always give importance only to point (2). Please pardon me from asking questions like this as i am no person to debate with you - either by knowledge or age. Thanks again Pradeep vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Pradeep, > The confusion arises because of the fact that some Sanskrita words loose > their import when translated to English. The shloka does not say Damage or > Harm. It says"Bhrashta". The word has different conotations depending on the > context. Like Sthanabhrashta would be something like loosing one's place > whereas Sheelabhrashta would mean one whose moral are loose. The same when > said to be done by other would mean harming or damaging other's modesty. > Limitations of the language does sometimes pose a problem in conveyance of > the corect meaning of sanskrita words. This is why I have said many a times > that Astrology is better understood if one learns it in Sanskrit or Sanskrit > based Indian languages. > Hope this helps, > Chandrashekhar. > > vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep] > Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:38 PM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the > house it and Saturn Protects// > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji > > I now understand why Jupiter placement can result in difficult > outcomes. > > Do you mean to say if jupiter is placed in puthrasthana ,then the > individuals can be intelligent but their children will suffer.This is > just to make sure, if i have understood your example. > > But i have one slight difference in opinion regarding the statement - > 'Jupiter destroys or harms'. > > This statement makes us puzzled about the meaning vis-a-vis the > nature of Jupiter. > > Because when we say it destroys - it means jupiter's action was > intented towards destruction.But that is not the case.Jupiter tends > to stick to principles even during adverse situations.This behaviour > makes him unable to protect.But his intention was never to destroy > nor the behaviour deserves destruction. > > But if you take another example > When Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved destruction. > > Though both the behaviours resulted(ends) in the destruction of > the 'houses',the means are not the same. > > Hence i believe if we say Jupiter is unable to protect the house in > which it is placed,during all circumstances, it becomes less ambigue - > vis-a-vis its nature,because destruction was never intended. > > Though the end result is same i feel there is a difference in the > inherent meaning. > > Kindly correct me if i am wrong. > > Also should one learn something from this lesson - to live in Kali > Yuga! > > Thanks and respect > Pradeep > > vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" > <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Pradeep, > > Certain principles are given by the sages and are found to be true > in their > > application. Having said that, have you observed that the children > living > > with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? This is what happens > with > > Jupiter placement in a house. You will also not ,if one wants to go > to > > Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the Daanaavas more often > than > > other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. Devas invariably > got > > defeated and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, Vishnu, Durga etc. > Saturn > > usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi Rahu was their > Senapati. > > About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do with his ability to > protect. > > He protects one from bad indications of that house. These are my > personal > > opinions and other worthies might have different opinions. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > ---- > > > > vedic astrology > > Monday, August 25, 2003 08:17:02 PM > > vedic astrology > > [vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying > the house > > it and Saturn Protects// > > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members. > > > > I have seen from the archives ,where you had participated in > > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy the bhava in > > which > > it is placed and Saturn Protects. > > > > Here I have some queries. > > > > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter to try and > > harm > > or destroy. > > > > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses (6,8,12 > etc) - > > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad > > (negative,negative results in positive) should bring good. But if > > saturn > > can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the above > > statement > > loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding of this > > 'negative-negative' is wrong. > > > > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel it can test > > the > > individual always on the path of life,which can be painfull and > hard > > as > > well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an individual can > > combat > > the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of patience and > > other > > mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right? > > > > But why is it trying to destroy? > > > > Also doesn't other considerations like strength,position etc come > > into > > play while deciding on this? > > > > If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by virtue of > > which > > it > > is trying to behave like this, it would be helpful. > > > > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good and bad) > about > > jupiter placed in ascendant. > > > > Thanks a lot > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 dear chandershekarji, does this mean that jupiter fails to protect the house in which is is located? iirespective of good or bad? what about the house it aspects. does this hold good even if jupiter is involved in yagas like hansa yoga or gajakesari yoga.? what about debilited jupiter? now what about saturn in good houses does it protect the sigindicanes of that house as well/ what about debilited saturn?what about the houses it aspects? with respect ajoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Dear Jyotishas, Now here I will give some informations about Guru according to Nadi literatures. Guru indicates how one follows his/her Dharma,respect one gets and wealth also. Guru in Mesha : The native has long body,small nose,hard working,and the native has slight problems connected to heat / Pitta. Guru in Vrishabha : The native will have normal height,desire to have luxuries in the life,intelligent,believes hard working people,has got gastic troubles. Guru in Mithuna : The native will have normal height,intelligent,faithful,diplomatic with everybody,will have enough landed property and wealth. Guru in Karka : This native will have his nose bent like half moon,heart line in hand goes upto the mount of Jupiter,handsome personality,slightly plumpy,attracts everybody,his attraction lies in his nose shape,will have knowledge of arts or medicine in addition to his own education,suffers from cold and throat connected troubles,many times his statements become true ( Intutive ),in the beginning of life may not be successful in life but as the age advances ,the native will be successful and will be respected also. Guru in Simha : The native's nose resembles that of Garuda a kind of bird ( Eagle ),will have small waist,speaks in loud voice,will have co-operation from respected and government authorities,will have troubles connected to weakness of nerves and Pitta or heat. Guru in Kanya : This native will have medium height,will perform duties through good character and attractive voice,eventhough the body is slightly small but is attractive and handsome,Nose is slightly bent inwards,body will be under heat and cold equally. Guru in Tula : The native will have normal height,likes to eat too much,attracted towards female natives,intelligent in keeping the wealth,works hard to keep the respect,will have comfortable life. Guru in Vrischika : The native has body of equal size,oily red coloured body,normal height,takes interest in hard work,sometimes may not be able to speak out inner emotions,small minded,troubles from poisonous articles and heat ( pitta ). Guru in Dhanu : The native has long nose,speaks too much,slightly affected to cold atmosphere,faithful,perfroms his activities by intelligence. Guru in Makara : The native has good body but suffers frequently from some kind of sickness,cold and gastic troubles affect the native,nose slightly broad,does not get help from own relatives and outsders also,troubles in happiness also. Guru in Kumbha : This native will have normal height,plumpy means the look will be of round shaped,god knowledge of phylosophy,will have respect from others,if undertakes any job,wishes to have respect and gain of power,will have troubles to stomach. Guru in Meena : The native will have a good height,attractive,quite intelligent,will be able to get love and affection and honour from the society,will have profound knowledge of Vedas and related knowleges,highly spiritual but has troubles connected to liver and associate organs. I hope this helps. With Sri Narayana Nama Smarana, Ramadas Rao. sanjayprabhakaran <sprabhakaran (AT) shreem (DOT) com> wrote: || Om Gurave Namah ||Dear Jyotishas,Regarding Jupiter in various houses and signs below is something from Saaraavalli. It seems that Jupiter enhances the both the Sign qualities and house qualities.Warm RegardsS. PrabhakaranCh. 27. Effects of Jupiter in Various Signs1-2. JUPITER IN ARIES. If Jupiter is posited in Aries at birth, one will be argumentative in disposition, will acquire precious stones and ornaments out of his efforts, will be endowed with strength, sons and wealth, will have eminent and famous profession, be splendourous, will have many enemies, much expenses and an injured body and will confer fierce and cruel punishments. 3-4. Should Jupiter be in Taurus, one will be endowed with a broad body, be corpulent, will honour Brahmins and Gods, be splendourous, fortunate, attached to his wife, be endowed with good appearance, profession, cows and abundant wealth; will possess good articles and ornaments, be distinguished in speech, intelligence and skill; will have political / judicial wisdom, be modest, be endowed with medical accomplishments and be skillful in experiments. 5-6. Should Jupiter be in Gemini, the native will be affluent, scholarly, proficient, will possess attractive eyes, be eloquent, courteous, skillful, virtuous, will honour elders and relatives, will be able to utter "bejeweled" words (be literally rich in words), which are benevolent in nature, be devoted to his duties and be a good poet. 7-8. If Jupiter be in Cancer at birth, the native will be a scholar, be beautiful, be highly learned, charitable, good-natured, be very strong, be famous, will possess abundant grains and riches, be endowed with truth and penance, will have long-living sons, be honoured by all, will be a king, will have a distinguished profession and will be attached to his friends. 9-10. Should Jupiter be in Leo at the time of birth, the native will be lastingly inimical, be strong, courageous, will show abundant friendship, be learned, rich, will have eminent relatives, be a king, will have heroism akin to that of a king, will be recognizable in an assembly, will destroy the entire band of his enemies, will possess a strong physique and will live in hills, fortresses, forests and temples. 11-12. If Jupiter occupies Virgo at birth, one will be a scholar, be virtuous, be skillful in his work, be fond of scents, robes and flowers, will firmly gain in undertakings, will have rich experience in Śāstras and fine arts, be affluent, charitable, pure-hearted, skillful and wonderfully learned. 13-14. If Jupiter occupies Libra at birth, one will be a scholar, will have many sons, be endowed with foreign assignments, will be very affluent, interested in ornaments, modest, will earn money through dance and drama, be pleasing in appearance, be splendourous, learned in Śāstras, be superior among his colleague-businessmen, will honour Gods and guests and be very learned. 15-16. Should Jupiter at the time of one's birth be in Scorpio, he will be expert in Śāstras, be a king, will be a commentator of many Bhāşyas (a commentary, which explains Sūtras word by word with comments of its own, for example, on Vedas), be skillful, will construct temples and towns, will have many wives, but few sons, be troubled by diseases, will undergo many difficulties, be very fierce, be ostentatious in his performance, be virtuous and will indulge in contemptuous acts. 17-18. If Jupiter occupies Sagittarius at birth, one will be a preceptor, will conduct religious vows, initiations, sacrifices etc., will have lasting wealth, be charitable, be friendly to his own men, be fond of helping others, interested in Shastras, be the head of a zone, or a minister, will live in many countries, will prefer loneliness and be interested in visiting shrines. 19-20. JUPITER IN CAPRICORN. Jupiter in Capricorn denotes, that the native will be less virile, will experience much grief and difficulties, will be mean in conduct, be a dunce, will meet a bad end, will suffer from penury, will serve others, will be bereft of auspiciousness, mercy, purity, affection to his relatives and of religion, will have an emaciated body, be timid, interested in living in other countries and be depressed of spirits. 21-22. JUPITER IN AQUARIUS. If Jupiter falls in Aquarius at the time of birth, one will be a tale-bearer, be ill disposed, interested in evil jobs, be chief among his race men, be always attached to base men, be malicious, miserly, will suffer from diseases, will lose wealth on account his own utterances, be devoid of intelligence and virtues and will violate elder's beds. 23-24. JUPITER IN PISCES. If Jupiter is in Pisces at birth, one will be expert in knowing the meanings of Vedas and other Shastras, will be honoured by friends and virtuous people, will be a headsman in the king's employ, be praiseworthy, unconquerable, rich, devoid of fear, be proud, firm in undertakings, be a king, be skillful in policies, training, behavior and war tactics, be famous and will be calm in his doings. From Chapter 27 for Saturn74. If Saturn happens to be in the Ascendant identical with exaltation, or own House, the native will equal a king in status, or will head a country, or city. If Saturn is in the Ascendant in other Rāśis, then his own, or exaltation Rāśi, the planet will give misery in boyhood, dirty disposition and indolence. 75. If Saturn occupies the 2nd, the native will have an ugly face, will enjoy worldly prosperity, be devoid of his own men, will render justice, will later on (in the course of his life) go to other countries and will earn money and conveyances. 76. If Saturn occupies the 3rd, the native will be dark in complexion, will maintain physical cleanliness, be base, will have indolent attendants, be courageous, charitable and will have great intelligence. 77. SATURN IN THE 4th. If Saturn occupies the 4th Bhava, the native will suffer heart disease, or be broken-hearted, be devoid of relatives, conveyances, wealth, intelligence and happiness, will suffer sickness in boyhood and will have (prominent) nails and hair. 78. SATURN IN THE 5th. Should Saturn occupy the 5th Bhava, the native will be bereft of happiness, sons, friends, intelligence and kindness, be agitated and be poor. 79. If Saturn occupies the 6th, the native will be very licentious, be beautiful, courageous, will eat abundantly, be crooked and will conquer many of his enemies. 80. If Saturn is posited in the 7th, the native will always be subjected to ill health, will lose his wife, be bereft of wealth, will present himself ugly, be sinful and will do very mean acts. 81. If Saturn occupies the 8th, the native will suffer from leprosy and fistula in the anus, or pudendum, will have short life and will fail in his undertakings. 82. If Saturn occupies the 9th, the native will be devoid of religious merits, will not have much wealth, be bereft of co-born, sons and happiness and will cause sorrow to others. 83. If Saturn occupies the 10th, the native will be wealthy, learned, valorous and be a minister, or a justice, or be the leader of a group, city, or village. 84. If Saturn occupies the 11th, the native will be long-lived, endowed with lasting riches, be courageous, will have knowledge of arts, be devoid of sickness and be endowed with money, people and wealth. 85. If Saturn occupies the 12th, the native will be distressed, fallen in moral sense, talkative, will have defective eyesight, be unkind, shameless, will spend much and be insulted. Chapter 30---------50. If Jupiter occupies the 1st, the native will be attractive in appearance, energetic, long-lived, will act after assessing consequences, be learned, courageous and great. 51. Jupiter in the 2nd. If Jupiter occupies the 2nd, the native will be rich, will enjoy good food, be an eloquent speaker, be fortunate, be charitable and will have a beautiful body and face. 52. If Jupiter occupies the 3rd, the native will be greatly humiliated, be vile, ever successful, will have digestive deficiencies, be defeated by women and be sinful in acts. 53. If Jupiter occupies the 4th, the native will be endowed with relatives, paraphernalia, conveyance, happiness, intelligence, pleasures and wealth, be great and be a source of misery to his enemies. 54. If Jupiter occupies the 5th, the native will have abundant happiness, many sons and friends, be learned, courageous, wealthy and will always be happy. 55. If Jupiter is in the 6th, the native will lack digestive fire and masculine virile, be humiliated, weak, indolent, will become famous on account of females, will destroy his enemies and be widely famous. 56. If Jupiter occupies the 7th, the native will be charming, will acquire a beautiful wife, be greater than his father, be an eloquent speaker, a poet, a superior person and be learned and famous. 57. If Jupiter occupies the 8th, the native will be insulted, long-lived, be a servant, will serve his own people, be pitiable and will have union with dirty women. 58. If Jupiter is in 9th, the native will be attached to divine and paternal duties, be learned, fortunate, be a king's minister, or a leader and be chief. 59. If Jupiter occupies the 10th, the native will attain successful beginning in his undertaking, be honourable, effortful and will be endowed with abundant welfare, happiness, wealth, relatives, conveyances and fame. 60. If Jupiter occupies the 11th, the native will enjoy many gains, many conveyances and many servants, be virtuous, but will have limited education and few sons. 61. If Jupiter occupies the 12th, the native will be indolent, odious, be devoid of speech and luck and will be in all probability in servitude. Ch. 29. Effects of Saturn in Various Rāśis1-2. SATURN IN ARIES. If Saturn occupies Aries at the time of one's birth one will be miserable due to his vices and hard labor, be deceitful will hate his relatives, be blameworthy, garrulous, reprobated, poor, bad in appearance, ill-tempered, inimical to his people, will do base acts, be jealous and sinful. 3-4. If Saturn occupies Taurus at the time of one's birth, he will be bereft of wealth, be a servant, will speak undesirable words, be untruthful, will win the hearts of old women, will have bad friends, will be addicted to women, will serve other women, be not outspoken, will have strong sight, be related to numerous assignments and be a fool. 5-6. If Saturn occupies Gemini, one will contract debts and imprisonments, will toil, will have vanity in disposition will consecrate by hymns and prayers, be bereft of virtues, be always in hide-out, be libidinous, cunning, wicked and fond of wandering and of sports. 7-8. SATURN IN CANCER. If Saturn is in Cancer, one will possess a beloved wife, be devoid of wealth in boyhood, will suffer many diseases, be learned, motherless, soft-spoken, distinguished in acts, will always contract diseases, will trouble others, be inimical to relatives, crooked, be kingly in his mid-life and will enjoy growing pleasures. 9-10. SATURN IN LEO. If Saturn occupies Leo, one will be interested in writing and reading, be skillful, be disdained, devoid of virtues and wife, will live by servitude, be devoid of his own men and happiness, be interested in doing base acts, ill-tempered, be mad with (undue) desires, will carry loads, will toil hard and will have a wrinkled body. 11-12. SATURN IN VIRGO. If Saturn occupies Virgo at birth the subject will resemble a eunuch, be very crafty, will depend on others for food, be addicted to prostitutes, will have a few friends, be unacquainted with arts, be desirous of indulging in ugly acts, will possess sons and wealth, be indolent, helpful to others, will intent upon spoiling virgins and be cautious in his actions. 13-14. Saturn posited in Libra at birth indicates, that the subject will be rich, soft-spoken, will earn money and honours from foreign countries, be a king, or a scholar, will have his wealth protected by his relatives, be senior in the circle, will attain a high status owing to his gracious speech in an assemblage, be good and will join corrupt female dancers and prostitutes. 15-16. SATURN IN SCORPIO. If Saturn occupies Scorpio at birth, the native will be hostile, be crooked, affected by poison and weapons, very ill-tempered, miserly, egoistic, rich, capable of stealing others' money, averse to instruments played on festive occasions, malicious, very miserable and will face destruction, misery and diseases. 17-18. SATURN IN SAGITTARIUS. If Saturn occupies Sagittarius, one will be skillful in behavior, teaching, Vedic meanings, learning and denotation, (i.e. he will be best placed in these respects), be famous due to virtuous children, family profession and his own virtues, will enjoy excellent affluence in his old age, will speak less, will have many names and be soft in disposition. 19-20. If Saturn is posited at birth in Capricorn, the native will lord over the lands of others' females, will be endowed with Vedic knowledge, virtues and knowledge of many branches of fine arts, be excellent among his caste-men, be honourable, will respect others, be famous, be interested in bathing and decoration, will be skillful in performance, will live in foreign places, be courageous and be polite in behavior. 21-22. If Saturn is in Aquarius, the native will be a great liar, be eminent, be addicted to women and wine, be wicked, crafty, will fall prey to evil friendship, be very ill-tempered, be averse to knowledge, conversation and traditional law, be addicted to other women, be harsh in speech and will attempt at many undertakings. 23-24. SATURN IN PISCES. If Saturn occupies Pisces at birth, one will be fond of Sacrifices and arts, be chief among his relatives and friends, be calm, will have increasing wealth, be skillful in policy-making, be capable of diamond testing, be virtuous, modest and will later on acquire an authoritative position. Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Win TVs, Bikes, DVD players and more! Click on India Promos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Chandrashekhar ji Namaste Now some confusion. In the analogy of student/king and teacher/minister why do we consider by default,student or king as 'bad'? The Susthanas represent good and Guru in that should protect their good and at least should not spoil the effect. Moreover, why should we asume that everytime in the presence of Guru, student would be interested in doing something bad? A good student i.e. good house i.e. Susthana in the presence of Guru should enhance its capability. Therefore Guru should enhance Sthanas capabilty. If in Susthanas with consent and in Dusthanas without. As it would fail to make 'bad' student 'good'. At least Guru should have that much discremination power. Or is it that in the case of Susthanas i.e. with good student Guru fails because of his elevated ego? In that case we can say that Guru will always fail. In the company of good student because of his big EGO and in the company of bad student because of his lack of courage. As a matter of fact, if student is really bad then Guru must make him good and in the case of good student Guru must appriciate student. Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. AmolMAndar vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Amolmandar, > I will give you an example outside astrology and religion.Guru represents > Minister or the teacher . Now teacher tells that which is right. Students > many a times feel unconfortable in the presence of the Teacher as he > monitors their behaviour, specially if in their youth they want to do > something which the Guru forbids being bad.Simialr is the case with the king > whose ministers forbids him from doing something that is against RajDharma. > Now imagine House where Jupiter is posited being the student/King and > Jupiter being the Teacher. The results for the house would be clear. > Of course , as I said earlier this is only my way at looking at it in order > to understand why this happens, and the Sages' principles are given to us as > such without the reasons behind them. We have to apply our Viveka to fathom > the logic behind it.Other worthies might hold different views. > Hope this helps understand the concept. > Chandrashekhar. > > amolmandar [amolmandar] > Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:39 PM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the > house it and Saturn Protects// > > > Chandrashekharji Namste > > As usual you explained the things very lucidly but just slight doubt. > It is said many times that Guru is Dharma (not religion) and it is as > well said that Guru tries to uphold Dharma but usually fails. Hence > Dharma fails. But many say Dharma never fails. So Guru should also > never fail. Then why it fails with respect to house? Does MAYA play > any role in this? > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. > > AmolMAndar > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Dear Amol Mandar, Read the previous mail carefully again. I have not said that Student/King is bad. I have said to see what student / king feel about a displinarian Guru living with him, though he understands that the lessons are for his own good. Chandrashekhar. amolmandar [amolmandar ]Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 12:42 PMvedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects//Chandrashekhar ji NamasteNow some confusion. In the analogy of student/king and teacher/minister why do we consider by default,student or king as 'bad'? The Susthanas represent good and Guru in that should protect their good and at least should not spoil the effect. Moreover, why should we asume that everytime in the presence of Guru, student would be interested in doing something bad? A good student i.e. good house i.e. Susthana in the presence of Guru should enhance its capability. Therefore Guru should enhance Sthanas capabilty. If in Susthanas with consent and in Dusthanas without. As it would fail to make 'bad' student 'good'. At least Guru should have that much discremination power. Or is it that in the case of Susthanas i.e. with good student Guru fails because of his elevated ego? In that case we can say that Guru will always fail. In the company of good student because of his big EGO and in the company of bad student because of his lack of courage. As a matter of fact, if student is really bad then Guru must make him good and in the case of good student Guru must appriciate student. Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.AmolMAndar vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote:> Dear Amolmandar,> I will give you an example outside astrology and religion.Guru represents> Minister or the teacher . Now teacher tells that which is right. Students> many a times feel unconfortable in the presence of the Teacher as he> monitors their behaviour, specially if in their youth they want to do> something which the Guru forbids being bad.Simialr is the case with the king> whose ministers forbids him from doing something that is against RajDharma.> Now imagine House where Jupiter is posited being the student/King and> Jupiter being the Teacher. The results for the house would be clear.> Of course , as I said earlier this is only my way at looking at it in order> to understand why this happens, and the Sages' principles are given to us as> such without the reasons behind them. We have to apply our Viveka to fathom> the logic behind it.Other worthies might hold different views.> Hope this helps understand the concept.> Chandrashekhar.> -----Original Message-----> amolmandar [amolmandar]> Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:39 PM> vedic astrology> Subject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the> house it and Saturn Protects//> > > Chandrashekharji Namste> > As usual you explained the things very lucidly but just slight doubt.> It is said many times that Guru is Dharma (not religion) and it is as> well said that Guru tries to uphold Dharma but usually fails. Hence> Dharma fails. But many say Dharma never fails. So Guru should also> never fail. Then why it fails with respect to house? Does MAYA play> any role in this?> > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.> > AmolMAndar> > > Sponsor> > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > Terms of Service.> > ---> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Dear Ajoy, No principle is to be aplied in isolation. Saturn would be more helpful to Taurus and Libra ascendant jatakas than others. Whereas Jupiter would be more inimical to them. Now about your query, Jupiter's aspect protects whereas Saturn's aspect harms.There is an exception to this later when saturn aspects 9th from 7th house. Again debilitated planet aspects its house of exaltation and so the fruits for that house are generally good.No doubt Jupiter being in Hansa or Gajakesari yoga would be better but a Tiger's stripes can fade but not disappear. Of course, as I have mentioned earlier too, this is my opinion and others might hold a different view. When principles are discussed , it is well to remember that these are to be applied keeping in mind, other exceptions and rules which form the bassis of this divine science. Hope this helps, Chandrashekhar. ajoypb [ajoypb (AT) (DOT) co.in]Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 12:17 PMvedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects//dear chandershekarji, does this mean that jupiter fails to protect the house in which is is located? iirespective of good or bad? what about the house it aspects. does this hold good even if jupiter is involved in yagas like hansa yoga or gajakesari yoga.? what about debilited jupiter? now what about saturn in good houses does it protect the sigindicanes of that house as well/ what about debilited saturn?what about the houses it aspects?with respectajoyArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Dear S. Prabhakaran, You have given a good compilation of effects of Jupiter. However if one applies them in isolation, confusion could arise. For example if we apply the principles to Jupiter occupying 5th house in Cancer rasi then per the shlokas,"54. If Jupiter occupies the 5th, the native will have abundant happiness, many sons and friends, be learned, courageous, wealthy and will always be happy. And"7-8. If Jupiter be in Cancer at birth, the native will be a scholar, be beautiful, be highly learned, charitable, good-natured, be very 7-8. If Jupiter be in Cancer at birth, the native will be a scholar, be beautiful, be highly learned, charitable, good-natured, be very strong, be famous, will possess abundant grains and riches, be endowed with truth and penance, will have long-living sons, be honoured by all, will be a king, will have a distinguished profession and will be attached to his friends. However it is found that a Jataka with Jupiter in 5th house in Cancer sign indicates less and many a times no progeny.It is no use saying Bhavat...Bhava nasho etc. as the shloka above states about Jupiter in 5th house only and says many sons.So perhaps the principle of Bhrashta does apply and override the shlokas. Regards, Chandrashekhar. sanjayprabhakaran [sprabhakaran (AT) shreem (DOT) com]Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:05 AMTo: vedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects//|| Om Gurave Namah ||Dear Jyotishas,Regarding Jupiter in various houses and signs below is something from Saaraavalli. It seems that Jupiter enhances the both the Sign qualities and house qualities.Warm RegardsS. PrabhakaranCh. 27. Effects of Jupiter in Various Signs1-2. JUPITER IN ARIES. If Jupiter is posited in Aries at birth, one will be argumentative in disposition, will acquire precious stones and ornaments out of his efforts, will be endowed with strength, sons and wealth, will have eminent and famous profession, be splendourous, will have many enemies, much expenses and an injured body and will confer fierce and cruel punishments. 3-4. Should Jupiter be in Taurus, one will be endowed with a broad body, be corpulent, will honour Brahmins and Gods, be splendourous, fortunate, attached to his wife, be endowed with good appearance, profession, cows and abundant wealth; will possess good articles and ornaments, be distinguished in speech, intelligence and skill; will have political / judicial wisdom, be modest, be endowed with medical accomplishments and be skillful in experiments. 5-6. Should Jupiter be in Gemini, the native will be affluent, scholarly, proficient, will possess attractive eyes, be eloquent, courteous, skillful, virtuous, will honour elders and relatives, will be able to utter "bejeweled" words (be literally rich in words), which are benevolent in nature, be devoted to his duties and be a good poet. 7-8. If Jupiter be in Cancer at birth, the native will be a scholar, be beautiful, be highly learned, charitable, good-natured, be very 7-8. If Jupiter be in Cancer at birth, the native will be a scholar, be beautiful, be highly learned, charitable, good-natured, be very strong, be famous, will possess abundant grains and riches, be endowed with truth and penance, will have long-living sons, be honoured by all, will be a king, will have a distinguished profession and will be attached to his friends. strong, be famous, will possess abundant grains and riches, be endowed with truth and penance, will have long-living sons, be honoured by all, will be a king, will have a distinguished profession and will be attached to his friends. 9-10. Should Jupiter be in Leo at the time of birth, the native will be lastingly inimical, be strong, courageous, will show abundant friendship, be learned, rich, will have eminent relatives, be a king, will have heroism akin to that of a king, will be recognizable in an assembly, will destroy the entire band of his enemies, will possess a strong physique and will live in hills, fortresses, forests and temples. 11-12. If Jupiter occupies Virgo at birth, one will be a scholar, be virtuous, be skillful in his work, be fond of scents, robes and flowers, will firmly gain in undertakings, will have rich experience in Śāstras and fine arts, be affluent, charitable, pure-hearted, skillful and wonderfully learned. 13-14. If Jupiter occupies Libra at birth, one will be a scholar, will have many sons, be endowed with foreign assignments, will be very affluent, interested in ornaments, modest, will earn money through dance and drama, be pleasing in appearance, be splendourous, learned in Śāstras, be superior among his colleague-businessmen, will honour Gods and guests and be very learned. 15-16. Should Jupiter at the time of one's birth be in Scorpio, he will be expert in Śāstras, be a king, will be a commentator of many Bhāşyas (a commentary, which explains Sūtras word by word with comments of its own, for example, on Vedas), be skillful, will construct temples and towns, will have many wives, but few sons, be troubled by diseases, will undergo many difficulties, be very fierce, be ostentatious in his performance, be virtuous and will indulge in contemptuous acts. 17-18. If Jupiter occupies Sagittarius at birth, one will be a preceptor, will conduct religious vows, initiations, sacrifices etc., will have lasting wealth, be charitable, be friendly to his own men, be fond of helping others, interested in Shastras, be the head of a zone, or a minister, will live in many countries, will prefer loneliness and be interested in visiting shrines. 19-20. JUPITER IN CAPRICORN. Jupiter in Capricorn denotes, that the native will be less virile, will experience much grief and difficulties, will be mean in conduct, be a dunce, will meet a bad end, will suffer from penury, will serve others, will be bereft of auspiciousness, mercy, purity, affection to his relatives and of religion, will have an emaciated body, be timid, interested in living in other countries and be depressed of spirits. 21-22. JUPITER IN AQUARIUS. If Jupiter falls in Aquarius at the time of birth, one will be a tale-bearer, be ill disposed, interested in evil jobs, be chief among his race men, be always attached to base men, be malicious, miserly, will suffer from diseases, will lose wealth on account his own utterances, be devoid of intelligence and virtues and will violate elder's beds. 23-24. JUPITER IN PISCES. If Jupiter is in Pisces at birth, one will be expert in knowing the meanings of Vedas and other Shastras, will be honoured by friends and virtuous people, will be a headsman in the king's employ, be praiseworthy, unconquerable, rich, devoid of fear, be proud, firm in undertakings, be a king, be skillful in policies, training, behavior and war tactics, be famous and will be calm in his doings. From Chapter 27 for Saturn74. If Saturn happens to be in the Ascendant identical with exaltation, or own House, the native will equal a king in status, or will head a country, or city. If Saturn is in the Ascendant in other Rāśis, then his own, or exaltation Rāśi, the planet will give misery in boyhood, dirty disposition and indolence. 75. If Saturn occupies the 2nd, the native will have an ugly face, will enjoy worldly prosperity, be devoid of his own men, will render justice, will later on (in the course of his life) go to other countries and will earn money and conveyances. 76. If Saturn occupies the 3rd, the native will be dark in complexion, will maintain physical cleanliness, be base, will have indolent attendants, be courageous, charitable and will have great intelligence. 77. SATURN IN THE 4th. If Saturn occupies the 4th Bhava, the native will suffer heart disease, or be broken-hearted, be devoid of relatives, conveyances, wealth, intelligence and happiness, will suffer sickness in boyhood and will have (prominent) nails and hair. 78. SATURN IN THE 5th. Should Saturn occupy the 5th Bhava, the native will be bereft of happiness, sons, friends, intelligence and kindness, be agitated and be poor. 79. If Saturn occupies the 6th, the native will be very licentious, be beautiful, courageous, will eat abundantly, be crooked and will conquer many of his enemies. 80. If Saturn is posited in the 7th, the native will always be subjected to ill health, will lose his wife, be bereft of wealth, will present himself ugly, be sinful and will do very mean acts. 81. If Saturn occupies the 8th, the native will suffer from leprosy and fistula in the anus, or pudendum, will have short life and will fail in his undertakings. 82. If Saturn occupies the 9th, the native will be devoid of religious merits, will not have much wealth, be bereft of co-born, sons and happiness and will cause sorrow to others. 83. If Saturn occupies the 10th, the native will be wealthy, learned, valorous and be a minister, or a justice, or be the leader of a group, city, or village. 84. If Saturn occupies the 11th, the native will be long-lived, endowed with lasting riches, be courageous, will have knowledge of arts, be devoid of sickness and be endowed with money, people and wealth. 85. If Saturn occupies the 12th, the native will be distressed, fallen in moral sense, talkative, will have defective eyesight, be unkind, shameless, will spend much and be insulted. Chapter 30---------50. If Jupiter occupies the 1st, the native will be attractive in appearance, energetic, long-lived, will act after assessing consequences, be learned, courageous and great. 51. Jupiter in the 2nd. If Jupiter occupies the 2nd, the native will be rich, will enjoy good food, be an eloquent speaker, be fortunate, be charitable and will have a beautiful body and face. 52. If Jupiter occupies the 3rd, the native will be greatly humiliated, be vile, ever successful, will have digestive deficiencies, be defeated by women and be sinful in acts. 53. If Jupiter occupies the 4th, the native will be endowed with relatives, paraphernalia, conveyance, happiness, intelligence, pleasures and wealth, be great and be a source of misery to his enemies. 54. If Jupiter occupies the 5th, the native will have abundant happiness, many sons and friends, be learned, courageous, wealthy and will always be happy. 55. If Jupiter is in the 6th, the native will lack digestive fire and masculine virile, be humiliated, weak, indolent, will become famous on account of females, will destroy his enemies and be widely famous. 56. If Jupiter occupies the 7th, the native will be charming, will acquire a beautiful wife, be greater than his father, be an eloquent speaker, a poet, a superior person and be learned and famous. 57. If Jupiter occupies the 8th, the native will be insulted, long-lived, be a servant, will serve his own people, be pitiable and will have union with dirty women. 58. If Jupiter is in 9th, the native will be attached to divine and paternal duties, be learned, fortunate, be a king's minister, or a leader and be chief. 59. If Jupiter occupies the 10th, the native will attain successful beginning in his undertaking, be honourable, effortful and will be endowed with abundant welfare, happiness, wealth, relatives, conveyances and fame. 60. If Jupiter occupies the 11th, the native will enjoy many gains, many conveyances and many servants, be virtuous, but will have limited education and few sons. 61. If Jupiter occupies the 12th, the native will be indolent, odious, be devoid of speech and luck and will be in all probability in servitude. Ch. 29. Effects of Saturn in Various Rāśis1-2. SATURN IN ARIES. If Saturn occupies Aries at the time of one's birth one will be miserable due to his vices and hard labor, be deceitful will hate his relatives, be blameworthy, garrulous, reprobated, poor, bad in appearance, ill-tempered, inimical to his people, will do base acts, be jealous and sinful. 3-4. If Saturn occupies Taurus at the time of one's birth, he will be bereft of wealth, be a servant, will speak undesirable words, be untruthful, will win the hearts of old women, will have bad friends, will be addicted to women, will serve other women, be not outspoken, will have strong sight, be related to numerous assignments and be a fool. 5-6. If Saturn occupies Gemini, one will contract debts and imprisonments, will toil, will have vanity in disposition will consecrate by hymns and prayers, be bereft of virtues, be always in hide-out, be libidinous, cunning, wicked and fond of wandering and of sports. 7-8. SATURN IN CANCER. If Saturn is in Cancer, one will possess a beloved wife, be devoid of wealth in boyhood, will suffer many diseases, be learned, motherless, soft-spoken, distinguished in acts, will always contract diseases, will trouble others, be inimical to relatives, crooked, be kingly in his mid-life and will enjoy growing pleasures. 9-10. SATURN IN LEO. If Saturn occupies Leo, one will be interested in writing and reading, be skillful, be disdained, devoid of virtues and wife, will live by servitude, be devoid of his own men and happiness, be interested in doing base acts, ill-tempered, be mad with (undue) desires, will carry loads, will toil hard and will have a wrinkled body. 11-12. SATURN IN VIRGO. If Saturn occupies Virgo at birth the subject will resemble a eunuch, be very crafty, will depend on others for food, be addicted to prostitutes, will have a few friends, be unacquainted with arts, be desirous of indulging in ugly acts, will possess sons and wealth, be indolent, helpful to others, will intent upon spoiling virgins and be cautious in his actions. 13-14. Saturn posited in Libra at birth indicates, that the subject will be rich, soft-spoken, will earn money and honours from foreign countries, be a king, or a scholar, will have his wealth protected by his relatives, be senior in the circle, will attain a high status owing to his gracious speech in an assemblage, be good and will join corrupt female dancers and prostitutes. 15-16. SATURN IN SCORPIO. If Saturn occupies Scorpio at birth, the native will be hostile, be crooked, affected by poison and weapons, very ill-tempered, miserly, egoistic, rich, capable of stealing others' money, averse to instruments played on festive occasions, malicious, very miserable and will face destruction, misery and diseases. 17-18. SATURN IN SAGITTARIUS. If Saturn occupies Sagittarius, one will be skillful in behavior, teaching, Vedic meanings, learning and denotation, (i.e. he will be best placed in these respects), be famous due to virtuous children, family profession and his own virtues, will enjoy excellent affluence in his old age, will speak less, will have many names and be soft in disposition. 19-20. If Saturn is posited at birth in Capricorn, the native will lord over the lands of others' females, will be endowed with Vedic knowledge, virtues and knowledge of many branches of fine arts, be excellent among his caste-men, be honourable, will respect others, be famous, be interested in bathing and decoration, will be skillful in performance, will live in foreign places, be courageous and be polite in behavior. 21-22. If Saturn is in Aquarius, the native will be a great liar, be eminent, be addicted to women and wine, be wicked, crafty, will fall prey to evil friendship, be very ill-tempered, be averse to knowledge, conversation and traditional law, be addicted to other women, be harsh in speech and will attempt at many undertakings. 23-24. SATURN IN PISCES. If Saturn occupies Pisces at birth, one will be fond of Sacrifices and arts, be chief among his relatives and friends, be calm, will have increasing wealth, be skillful in policy-making, be capable of diamond testing, be virtuous, modest and will later on acquire an authoritative position. Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Dear Pradeep, The analogy of student/king is misunderstood. It was an aside to the main topic and just to understand the idea of why the student's hous e would feel unconfortable by presence of Guru. It is well to understand that the results that Jupiter will give in each case would vary depending on his house lordship and house of placement. However the streak of damage(Bhrashta) to the house would remain, though modified.If he house is bad the results could actually be good as the bad efects get lessened. Chandrashekhar. vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep ]Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:39 AMTo: vedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects//Dear Chandrashekar jiThis suggestion is really good.I too feel one should learn astrology from the original textual language or its derivatives, after reading your mail.But now after seeing your mail for amol ji,i am still having some doubts.As you have said, even though your example-regarding student,guru and all cannot be generalised - I am taking that example to clear my doubts.Here i believe the nature of the students and guru has to be considered - Similarly the king and minister.If both are of the same nature - then no one has to suffer,'Bhrashta'.1)Similarly if jupiter is placed in a friendly house or deeptha or swakshethra - harmony is not troubled ,under normal circumstances.2)But as the lagna or the individual is subject to various influences within the chart - there can be disharmony. Hence do you consider my point(1) as haaving some relevance?or shld we always give importance only to point (2).Please pardon me from asking questions like this as i am no person to debate with you - either by knowledge or age.Thanks againPradeep--- In vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote:> Dear Pradeep,> The confusion arises because of the fact that some Sanskrita words loose> their import when translated to English. The shloka does not say Damage or> Harm. It says"Bhrashta". The word has different conotations depending on the> context. Like Sthanabhrashta would be something like loosing one's place> whereas Sheelabhrashta would mean one whose moral are loose. The same when> said to be done by other would mean harming or damaging other's modesty.> Limitations of the language does sometimes pose a problem in conveyance of> the corect meaning of sanskrita words. This is why I have said many a times> that Astrology is better understood if one learns it in Sanskrit or Sanskrit> based Indian languages.> Hope this helps,> Chandrashekhar.> > vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep]> Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:38 PM> vedic astrology> [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the> house it and Saturn Protects//> > > Dear Chandrashekar ji> > I now understand why Jupiter placement can result in difficult> outcomes.> > Do you mean to say if jupiter is placed in puthrasthana ,then the> individuals can be intelligent but their children will suffer.This is> just to make sure, if i have understood your example.> > But i have one slight difference in opinion regarding the statement -> 'Jupiter destroys or harms'.> > This statement makes us puzzled about the meaning vis-a-vis the> nature of Jupiter.> > Because when we say it destroys - it means jupiter's action was> intented towards destruction.But that is not the case.Jupiter tends> to stick to principles even during adverse situations.This behaviour> makes him unable to protect.But his intention was never to destroy> nor the behaviour deserves destruction.> > But if you take another example> When Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved destruction.> > Though both the behaviours resulted(ends) in the destruction of> the 'houses',the means are not the same.> > Hence i believe if we say Jupiter is unable to protect the house in> which it is placed,during all circumstances, it becomes less ambigue -> vis-a-vis its nature,because destruction was never intended.> > Though the end result is same i feel there is a difference in the> inherent meaning.> > Kindly correct me if i am wrong.> > Also should one learn something from this lesson - to live in Kali> Yuga!> > Thanks and respect> Pradeep> > --- In vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma"> <boxdel> wrote:> > Dear Pradeep,> > Certain principles are given by the sages and are found to be true> in their> > application. Having said that, have you observed that the children> living> > with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? This is what happens> with> > Jupiter placement in a house. You will also not ,if one wants to go> to> > Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the Daanaavas more often> than> > other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. Devas invariably> got> > defeated and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, Vishnu, Durga etc.> Saturn> > usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi Rahu was their> Senapati.> > About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do with his ability to> protect.> > He protects one from bad indications of that house. These are my> personal> > opinions and other worthies might have different opinions.> > Chandrashekhar.> >> > ----> >> > vedic astrology> > Monday, August 25, 2003 08:17:02 PM> > vedic astrology> > [vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying> the house> > it and Saturn Protects//> >> > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members.> >> > I have seen from the archives ,where you had participated in> > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy the bhava in> > which> > it is placed and Saturn Protects.> >> > Here I have some queries.> >> > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter to try and> > harm> > or destroy.> >> > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses (6,8,12> etc) -> > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad> > (negative,negative results in positive) should bring good. But if> > saturn> > can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the above> > statement> > loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding of this> > 'negative-negative' is wrong.> >> > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel it can test> > the> > individual always on the path of life,which can be painfull and> hard> > as> > well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an individual can> > combat> > the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of patience and> > other> > mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right?> >> > But why is it trying to destroy?> >> > Also doesn't other considerations like strength,position etc come> > into> > play while deciding on this?> >> > If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by virtue of> > which> > it> > is trying to behave like this, it would be helpful.> >> > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good and bad)> about> > jupiter placed in ascendant.> >> > Thanks a lot> > Pradeep> >> >> >> > Sponsor> >> >> >> > Archives: vedic astrology> >> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > >> > > >> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> >> > Your use of is subject to the > > > Sponsor> > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > Terms of Service.> > ---> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Om Namo Narayanaya, Dear Chandrakeshar and members, Sorry for butting in so abrubtly without the following of the previous mails... It has been experience among my students and those who learn Jyotish that some basic confusion is very strong. One should never mix the natural tendency of a Graha and functional role of the Graha.. Natural benefics as Guru who is the Bhagwan of the chart will NEVER harm any point but on the contrary will IMPROVE all points he touches in the chart by means of his NATURE. However, each graha has a role and different states. For instance, such guru may rule 8th house which is Randra or the vulnarable place, the worst house. It is akin to a good person having a negative role. E.G> suppose, a good neigbhour has to tell you that someone who is dear has passed away... it will never change his nature, he will still remain a good neigbour.. Furthermore, graha may give bad results even if benefic if placed in bad avastas. However, it doesnot again change its nature.. The malefic results are given due to graha bad mood. Thus, if guru gives bad results, it may give only on the bases of its rulership of bad houses, or being placed in bad avastas. It can never change his natural benefic tendency.. Hope this may help Best wishes Zoran Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote: Dear Pradeep, The analogy of student/king is misunderstood. It was an aside to the main topic and just to understand the idea of why the student's hous e would feel unconfortable by presence of Guru. It is well to understand that the results that Jupiter will give in each case would vary depending on his house lordship and house of placement. However the streak of damage(Bhrashta) to the house would remain, though modified.If he house is bad the results could actually be good as the bad efects get lessened. Chandrashekhar. vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep ] Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:39 AM vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects// Dear Chandrashekar ji This suggestion is really good. I too feel one should learn astrology from the original textual language or its derivatives, after reading your mail. But now after seeing your mail for amol ji,i am still having some doubts. As you have said, even though your example-regarding student,guru and all cannot be generalised - I am taking that example to clear my doubts. Here i believe the nature of the students and guru has to be considered - Similarly the king and minister. If both are of the same nature - then no one has to suffer,'Bhrashta'. 1)Similarly if jupiter is placed in a friendly house or deeptha or swakshethra - harmony is not troubled ,under normal circumstances. 2)But as the lagna or the individual is subject to various influences within the chart - there can be disharmony. Hence do you consider my point(1) as haaving some relevance? or shld we always give importance only to point (2). Please pardon me from asking questions like this as i am no person to debate with you - either by knowledge or age. Thanks again Pradeep vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Pradeep, > The confusion arises because of the fact that some Sanskrita words loose > their import when translated to English. The shloka does not say Damage or > Harm. It says"Bhrashta". The word has different conotations depending on the > context. Like Sthanabhrashta would be something like loosing one's place > whereas Sheelabhrashta would mean one whose moral are loose. The same when > said to be done by other would mean harming or damaging other's modesty. > Limitations of the language does sometimes pose a problem in conveyance of > the corect meaning of sanskrita words. This is why I have said many a times > that Astrology is better understood if one learns it in Sanskrit or Sanskrit > based Indian languages. > Hope this helps, > Chandrashekhar. > > vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep] > Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:38 PM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the > house it and Saturn Protects// > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji > > I now understand why Jupiter placement can result in difficult > outcomes. > > Do you mean to say if jupiter is placed in puthrasthana ,then the > individuals can be intelligent but their children will suffer.This is > just to make sure, if i have understood your example. > > But i have one slight difference in opinion regarding the statement - > 'Jupiter destroys or harms'. > > This statement makes us puzzled about the meaning vis-a-vis the > nature of Jupiter. > > Because when we say it destroys - it means jupiter's action was > intented towards destruction.But that is not the case.Jupiter tends > to stick to principles even during adverse situations.This behaviour > makes him unable to protect.But his intention was never to destroy > nor the behaviour deserves destruction. > > But if you take another example > When Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved destruction. > > Though both the behaviours resulted(ends) in the destruction of > the 'houses',the means are not the same. > > Hence i believe if we say Jupiter is unable to protect the house in > which it is placed,during all circumstances, it becomes less ambigue - > vis-a-vis its nature,because destruction was never intended. > > Though the end result is same i feel there is a difference in the > inherent meaning. > > Kindly correct me if i am wrong. > > Also should one learn something from this lesson - to live in Kali > Yuga! > > Thanks and respect > Pradeep > > vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" > <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Pradeep, > > Certain principles are given by the sages and are found to be true > in their > > application. Having said that, have you observed that the children > living > > with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? This is what happens > with > > Jupiter placement in a house. You will also not ,if one wants to go > to > > Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the Daanaavas more often > than > > other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. Devas invariably > got > > defeated and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, Vishnu, Durga etc. > Saturn > > usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi Rahu was their > Senapati. > > About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do with his ability to > protect. > > He protects one from bad indications of that house. These are my > personal > > opinions and other worthies might have different opinions. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > ---- > > > > vedic astrology > > Monday, August 25, 2003 08:17:02 PM > > vedic astrology > > [vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying > the house > > it and Saturn Protects// > > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members. > > > > I have seen from the archives ,where you had participated in > > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy the bhava in > > which > > it is placed and Saturn Protects. > > > > Here I have some queries. > > > > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter to try and > > harm > > or destroy. > > > > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses (6,8,12 > etc) - > > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad > > (negative,negative results in positive) should bring good. But if > > saturn > > can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the above > > statement > > loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding of this > > 'negative-negative' is wrong. > > > > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel it can test > > the > > individual always on the path of life,which can be painfull and > hard > > as > > well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an individual can > > combat > > the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of patience and > > other > > mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right? > > > > But why is it trying to destroy? > > > > Also doesn't other considerations like strength,position etc come > > into > > play while deciding on this? > > > > If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by virtue of > > which > > it > > is trying to behave like this, it would be helpful. > > > > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good and bad) > about > > jupiter placed in ascendant. > > > > Thanks a lot > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > Sponsor > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system ( http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03 Archives: vedic astrology Group info: vedic astrology/info.html Terms of Service .. Archives: vedic astrology Group info: vedic astrology/info.html Terms of Service .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Chandrashekharji NAmaste Yes there was no explicit reference of student/king as bad but tone I thought was implicit towards classifying student/king as bad. > > something which the Guru forbids being bad. So even if we now take the last post still I am not clear about student/king as house and its youth and bad activity. What is the youth of a house? And what bad it performs which Guru being placed their forbids it to do so? Dont you think Guru fails because of ego and lack of courage? MAhabharat is the best example. Every Guru except for Shri Krishna, failed in Mahabharat because of either of these qualities . SO when ideal Guru(Shri Krishna) is with you, you are bound to succeed. But the company of semi-guru will create problems. Astrology I suppose must be considering Guru as ideal one. That is why I feel,Guru should never fail. Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. AmolMAndar vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Amol Mandar, > Read the previous mail carefully again. I have not said that Student/King is > bad. I have said to see what student / king feel about a displinarian Guru > living with him, though he understands that the lessons are for his own > good. > Chandrashekhar. > > > amolmandar [amolmandar] > Wednesday, August 27, 2003 12:42 PM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the > house it and Saturn Protects// > > > Chandrashekhar ji Namaste > > Now some confusion. In the analogy of student/king and > teacher/minister why do we consider by default,student or king > as 'bad'? The Susthanas represent good and Guru in that should > protect their good and at least should not spoil the effect. > Moreover, why should we asume that everytime in the presence of Guru, > student would be interested in doing something bad? A good student > i.e. good house i.e. Susthana in the presence of Guru should enhance > its capability. Therefore Guru should enhance Sthanas capabilty. If > in Susthanas with consent and in Dusthanas without. As it would fail > to make 'bad' student 'good'. At least Guru should have that much > discremination power. Or is it that in the case of Susthanas i.e. > with good student Guru fails because of his elevated ego? In that > case we can say that Guru will always fail. In the company of good > student because of his big EGO and in the company of bad student > because of his lack of courage. As a matter of fact, if student is > really bad then Guru must make him good and in the case of good > student Guru must appriciate student. > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. > > AmolMAndar > > > vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" > <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Amolmandar, > > I will give you an example outside astrology and religion.Guru > represents > > Minister or the teacher . Now teacher tells that which is right. > Students > > many a times feel unconfortable in the presence of the Teacher as he > > monitors their behaviour, specially if in their youth they want to > do Simialr is the case with > the king > > whose ministers forbids him from doing something that is against > RajDharma. > > Now imagine House where Jupiter is posited being the student/King > and > > Jupiter being the Teacher. The results for the house would be clear. > > Of course , as I said earlier this is only my way at looking at it > in order > > to understand why this happens, and the Sages' principles are given > to us as > > such without the reasons behind them. We have to apply our Viveka > to fathom > > the logic behind it.Other worthies might hold different views. > > Hope this helps understand the concept. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > amolmandar [amolmandar] > > Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:39 PM > > vedic astrology > > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of > destroying the > > house it and Saturn Protects// > > > > > > Chandrashekharji Namste > > > > As usual you explained the things very lucidly but just slight > doubt. > > It is said many times that Guru is Dharma (not religion) and it > is as > > well said that Guru tries to uphold Dharma but usually fails. > Hence > > Dharma fails. But many say Dharma never fails. So Guru should also > > never fail. Then why it fails with respect to house? Does MAYA > play > > any role in this? > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. > > > > AmolMAndar > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03 > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Dear Amolmandar, You are again missing the point. I have not said that student does anything bad. I have said student /king feels disturbed in presence of the Guru, him being a displinaranian regarding study and Dharma. Thus the house does not express itself fully hence the specific Bharashta while indicating effect of Guru's joining a house. I have already stated that the example is meant only to amplify the concept and the example, though based on astrological concepts is not from an astrological work. Again I do not understand the concept of all Gurus other than Krishna failing in Mahabharata. Their shishyas might have failed as indeed they did including Arjuna. You know that I do not generally enter into debates based on perception of scriptures. But let me make it clear what I mean by Arjuna having failed. Read Bhagvadgita and see what te Lord told him to achieve. The lord asked him to be a Yogi and described attributes of Yogi. This included"Sukha Dukkha sam krutwa...". Still he grieved on death of Abhimanyu and swore death to Jayadratha before the Sun sets, a situation out of which the Lord had to retrieve him.And later, on death of his other sons and those of others, at end of the Yuddha when they were slain by Ashwatthama he grieved again.Now would you interprete this to mean that the Lord failed to impart knowledge about the indestructibility of Atman to Arjuna? One has to understand the difference between physical Guru and the Guru principle represented by Jupiter. Hope this helps. Chandrashekhar. amolmandar [amolmandar ]Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 12:15 PMvedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects//Chandrashekharji NAmasteYes there was no explicit reference of student/king as bad but tone I thought was implicit towards classifying student/king as bad. > > something which the Guru forbids being bad.So even if we now take the last post still I am not clear about student/king as house and its youth and bad activity. What is the youth of a house? And what bad it performs which Guru being placed their forbids it to do so? Dont you think Guru fails because of ego and lack of courage? MAhabharat is the best example. Every Guru except for Shri Krishna, failed in Mahabharat because of either of these qualities . SO when ideal Guru(Shri Krishna) is with you, you are bound to succeed. But the company of semi-guru will create problems. Astrology I suppose must be considering Guru as ideal one. That is why I feel,Guru should never fail.Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.AmolMAndar--- In vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote:> Dear Amol Mandar,> Read the previous mail carefully again. I have not said that Student/King is> bad. I have said to see what student / king feel about a displinarian Guru> living with him, though he understands that the lessons are for his own> good.> Chandrashekhar.> > > amolmandar [amolmandar]> Wednesday, August 27, 2003 12:42 PM> vedic astrology> [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the> house it and Saturn Protects//> > > Chandrashekhar ji Namaste> > Now some confusion. In the analogy of student/king and> teacher/minister why do we consider by default,student or king> as 'bad'? The Susthanas represent good and Guru in that should> protect their good and at least should not spoil the effect.> Moreover, why should we asume that everytime in the presence of Guru,> student would be interested in doing something bad? A good student> i.e. good house i.e. Susthana in the presence of Guru should enhance> its capability. Therefore Guru should enhance Sthanas capabilty. If> in Susthanas with consent and in Dusthanas without. As it would fail> to make 'bad' student 'good'. At least Guru should have that much> discremination power. Or is it that in the case of Susthanas i.e.> with good student Guru fails because of his elevated ego? In that> case we can say that Guru will always fail. In the company of good> student because of his big EGO and in the company of bad student> because of his lack of courage. As a matter of fact, if student is> really bad then Guru must make him good and in the case of good> student Guru must appriciate student.> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.> > AmolMAndar> > > --- In vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma"> <boxdel> wrote:> > Dear Amolmandar,> > I will give you an example outside astrology and religion.Guru> represents> > Minister or the teacher . Now teacher tells that which is right.> Students> > many a times feel unconfortable in the presence of the Teacher as he> > monitors their behaviour, specially if in their youth they want to> doSimialr is the case with> the king> > whose ministers forbids him from doing something that is against> RajDharma.> > Now imagine House where Jupiter is posited being the student/King> and> > Jupiter being the Teacher. The results for the house would be clear.> > Of course , as I said earlier this is only my way at looking at it> in order> > to understand why this happens, and the Sages' principles are given> to us as> > such without the reasons behind them. We have to apply our Viveka> to fathom> > the logic behind it.Other worthies might hold different views.> > Hope this helps understand the concept.> > Chandrashekhar.> > > > amolmandar [amolmandar]> > Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:39 PM> > To: vedic astrology> > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of> destroying the> > house it and Saturn Protects//> >> >> > Chandrashekharji Namste> >> > As usual you explained the things very lucidly but just slight> doubt.> > It is said many times that Guru is Dharma (not religion) and it> is as> > well said that Guru tries to uphold Dharma but usually fails.> Hence> > Dharma fails. But many say Dharma never fails. So Guru should also> > never fail. Then why it fails with respect to house? Does MAYA> play> > any role in this?> >> >> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.> >> > AmolMAndar> >> >> > Sponsor> > > >> >> >> >> > Archives: vedic astrology> >> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > >> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> >> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> >> > Your use of Groups is subject to the Terms of> Service.> >> > ---> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03> > > Sponsor> > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > Terms of Service.> > ---> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Om Namo Narayanaya, Dear Chandrakeshar, I see.. I was relying upon a subject.. This hypotesyse given as the subject " Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn protects" is highly dubious and should not be followed... Best wishes Zoran Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote: Dear Zoran, You are perhaps misinterpreting the Sanskrita word Guru with the word Guru as planet used in the original post.I was just trying to clear the misunderstanding when Guru as in planet was being taken as Gur as in the master by explaining the principles from both the hypothesis. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Zoran Radosavljevic [ahimsa (AT) NSpoint (DOT) net] Thursday, August 28, 2003 7:50 AM vedic astrology Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects// Om Namo Narayanaya, Dear Chandrakeshar and members, Sorry for butting in so abrubtly without the following of the previous mails... It has been experience among my students and those who learn Jyotish that some basic confusion is very strong. One should never mix the natural tendency of a Graha and functional role of the Graha.. Natural benefics as Guru who is the Bhagwan of the chart will NEVER harm any point but on the contrary will IMPROVE all points he touches in the chart by means of his NATURE. However, each graha has a role and different states. For instance, such guru may rule 8th house which is Randra or the vulnarable place, the worst house. It is akin to a good person having a negative role. E.G> suppose, a good neigbhour has to tell you that someone who is dear has passed away... it will never change his nature, he will still remain a good neigbour.. Furthermore, graha may give bad results even if benefic if placed in bad avastas. However, it doesnot again change its nature.. The malefic results are given due to graha bad mood. Thus, if guru gives bad results, it may give only on the bases of its rulership of bad houses, or being placed in bad avastas. It can never change his natural benefic tendency.. Hope this may help Best wishes Zoran Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote: Dear Pradeep, The analogy of student/king is misunderstood. It was an aside to the main topic and just to understand the idea of why the student's hous e would feel unconfortable by presence of Guru. It is well to understand that the results that Jupiter will give in each case would vary depending on his house lordship and house of placement. However the streak of damage(Bhrashta) to the house would remain, though modified.If he house is bad the results could actually be good as the bad efects get lessened. Chandrashekhar. vijayadas_pradeep [ vijayadas_pradeep ] Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:39 AM To: vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects// Dear Chandrashekar ji This suggestion is really good. I too feel one should learn astrology from the original textual language or its derivatives, after reading your mail. But now after seeing your mail for amol ji,i am still having some doubts. As you have said, even though your example-regarding student,guru and all cannot be generalised - I am taking that example to clear my doubts. Here i believe the nature of the students and guru has to be considered - Similarly the king and minister. If both are of the same nature - then no one has to suffer,'Bhrashta'. 1)Similarly if jupiter is placed in a friendly house or deeptha or swakshethra - harmony is not troubled ,under normal circumstances. 2)But as the lagna or the individual is subject to various influences within the chart - there can be disharmony. Hence do you consider my point(1) as haaving some relevance? or shld we always give importance only to point (2). Please pardon me from asking questions like this as i am no person to debate with you - either by knowledge or age. Thanks again Pradeep vedic astrology , "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Pradeep, > The confusion arises because of the fact that some Sanskrita words loose > their import when translated to English. The shloka does not say Damage or > Harm. It says"Bhrashta". The word has different conotations depending on the > context. Like Sthanabhrashta would be something like loosing one's place > whereas Sheelabhrashta would mean one whose moral are loose. The same when > said to be done by other would mean harming or damaging other's modesty. > Limitations of the language does sometimes pose a problem in conveyance of > the corect meaning of sanskrita words. This is why I have said many a times > that Astrology is better understood if one learns it in Sanskrit or Sanskrit > based Indian languages. > Hope this helps, > Chandrashekhar. > > vijayadas_pradeep [ vijayadas_pradeep@y ....] > Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:38 PM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the > house it and Saturn Protects// > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji > > I now understand why Jupiter placement can result in difficult > outcomes. > > Do you mean to say if jupiter is placed in puthrasthana ,then the > individuals can be intelligent but their children will suffer.This is > just to make sure, if i have understood your example. > > But i have one slight difference in opinion regarding the statement - > 'Jupiter destroys or harms'. > > This statement makes us puzzled about the meaning vis-a-vis the > nature of Jupiter. > > Because when we say it destroys - it means jupiter's action was > intented towards destruction.But that is not the case.Jupiter tends > to stick to principles even during adverse situations.This behaviour > makes him unable to protect.But his intention was never to destroy > nor the behaviour deserves destruction. > > But if you take another example > When Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved destruction. > > Though both the behaviours resulted(ends) in the destruction of > the 'houses',the means are not the same. > > Hence i believe if we say Jupiter is unable to protect the house in > which it is placed,during all circumstances, it becomes less ambigue - > vis-a-vis its nature,because destruction was never intended. > > Though the end result is same i feel there is a difference in the > inherent meaning. > > Kindly correct me if i am wrong. > > Also should one learn something from this lesson - to live in Kali > Yuga! > > Thanks and respect > Pradeep > > vedic astrology , "Chandrashekhar Sharma" > <boxdel> wrote: > > Dear Pradeep, > > Certain principles are given by the sages and are found to be true > in their > > application. Having said that, have you observed that the children > living > > with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? This is what happens > with > > Jupiter placement in a house. You will also not ,if one wants to go > to > > Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the Daanaavas more often > than > > other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. Devas invariably > got > > defeated and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, Vishnu, Durga etc. > Saturn > > usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi Rahu was their > Senapati. > > About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do with his ability to > protect. > > He protects one from bad indications of that house. These are my > personal > > opinions and other worthies might have different opinions. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > ---- > > > > vedic astrology > > Monday, August 25, 2003 08:17:02 PM > > vedic astrology > > [vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying > the house > > it and Saturn Protects// > > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members. > > > > I have seen from the archives ,where you had participated in > > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy the bhava in > > which > > it is placed and Saturn Protects. > > > > Here I have some queries. > > > > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter to try and > > harm > > or destroy. > > > > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses (6,8,12 > etc) - > > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad > > (negative,negative results in positive) should bring good. But if > > saturn > > can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the above > > statement > > loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding of this > > 'negative-negative' is wrong. > > > > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel it can test > > the > > individual always on the path of life,which can be painfull and > hard > > as > > well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an individual can > > combat > > the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of patience and > > other > > mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right? > > > > But why is it trying to destroy? > > > > Also doesn't other considerations like strength,position etc come > > into > > play while deciding on this? > > > > If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by virtue of > > which > > it > > is trying to behave like this, it would be helpful. > > > > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good and bad) > about > > jupiter placed in ascendant. > > > > Thanks a lot > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > Terms of Service. > > > Sponsor > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > Terms of Service. > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system ( http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03 Archives: vedic astrology Group info: vedic astrology/info.html To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Terms of Service .. Archives: vedic astrology Group info: vedic astrology/info.html To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Terms of Service .. Archives: vedic astrology Group info: vedic astrology/info.html || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Terms of Service .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 Dear chandrashekar ji Could you kindly quote the shloka related to guru.This is just out of curiosity. Then from your mails i have understood that,you are very particular about the 'Bhrashta' while speaking about jupiter. I believe apart from understanding the inherent meaning, you might be having some experience related to the Guru and Bhrashta,perhaps with people whom you know well. If you could quote some real life experiences it would become more useful. Because if we consider a person having jupiter in 2nd house - The person should have problem related to money savings,speech,family,and other aspects reprsntd by 2nd house.How is this possible for all the aspects? I am totally with you regarding the strictness which guru might impose on the houses in which he is placed - at least regarding first house (because of own experience,also forming hamsa yoga). But again first house represents - physique,appearance,intellect,complexion,happiness etc.But could you explain how or why gurus prescence should result in damage of all these aspects. I dont want to conclude anything for me.I want to wait and understand what the sages have said. So from your experience and knowledge i am trying to gain some real understanding regarding this. Also Zoranjis mail was conveying the message - one should differentiate the nature of the planets from other factors. But i understood from your mails that the very nature of guru is resulting in 'Bhrashta'.So how do we relate this. regds & thanks Pradeep vedic astrology, Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa@N...> wrote: > Om Namo Narayanaya, > Dear Chandrakeshar, > I see.. I was relying upon a subject.. This hypotesyse given as the > subject " Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn > protects" is highly dubious and should not be followed... > Best wishes > Zoran > > Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote: > > > Dear Zoran, > > > > You are perhaps misinterpreting the Sanskrita word Guru with the word > > Guru as planet used in the original post.I was just trying to clear > > the misunderstanding when Guru as in planet was being taken as Gur as > > in the master by explaining the principles from both the hypothesis. > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > Zoran Radosavljevic [ahimsa@N...] > > Thursday, August 28, 2003 7:50 AM > > vedic astrology > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of > > destroying the house it and Saturn Protects// > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya, > > Dear Chandrakeshar and members, > > Sorry for butting in so abrubtly without the following of the > > previous mails... It has been experience among my students and > > those who learn Jyotish > > that some basic confusion is very strong. One should never mix > > the natural tendency of a Graha and functional role of the Graha.. > > Natural benefics as Guru who is the Bhagwan of the chart will > > NEVER harm any point but on the contrary will IMPROVE all points > > he touches > > in the chart by means of his NATURE. However, each graha has a > > role and different states. For instance, such guru may rule 8th > > house which is > > Randra or the vulnarable place, the worst house. It is akin to a > > good person having a negative role. E.G> suppose, a good neigbhour > > has to tell you that > > someone who is dear has passed away... it will never change his > > nature, he will still remain a good neigbour.. Furthermore, graha > > may give bad results even if benefic if placed in bad avastas. > > However, it doesnot again change its nature.. The malefic results > > are given due to graha bad mood. Thus, if guru gives bad results, it > > may give only on the bases of its rulership of bad houses, or > > being placed in bad avastas. It can never change his natural > > benefic tendency.. > > Hope this may help > > Best wishes > > Zoran > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote: > > > >> Dear Pradeep, > >> > >> The analogy of student/king is misunderstood. It was an aside to > >> the main topic and just to understand the idea of why the > >> student's hous e would feel unconfortable by presence of Guru. > >> > >> It is well to understand that the results that Jupiter will give > >> in each case would vary depending on his house lordship and house > >> of placement. However the streak of damage(Bhrashta) to the house > >> would remain, though modified.If he house is bad the results > >> could actually be good as the bad efects get lessened. > >> > >> Chandrashekhar. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> vijayadas_pradeep [ vijayadas_pradeep ] > >> Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:39 AM > >> vedic astrology > >> [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of > >> destroying the house it and Saturn Protects// > >> > >> Dear Chandrashekar ji > >> > >> This suggestion is really good. > >> I too feel one should learn astrology from the original textual > >> language or its derivatives, after reading your mail. > >> > >> But now after seeing your mail for amol ji,i am still having > >> some > >> doubts. > >> > >> As you have said, even though your example-regarding > >> student,guru > >> and all cannot be generalised - I am taking that example to > >> clear my > >> doubts. > >> > >> Here i believe the nature of the students and guru has to be > >> considered - Similarly the king and minister. > >> > >> If both are of the same nature - then no one has to > >> suffer,'Bhrashta'. > >> 1)Similarly if jupiter is placed in a friendly house or > >> deeptha or > >> swakshethra - harmony is not troubled ,under normal > >> circumstances. > >> > >> 2)But as the lagna or the individual is subject to various > >> influences within the chart - there can be disharmony. > >> > >> Hence do you consider my point(1) as haaving some relevance? > >> or shld we always give importance only to point (2). > >> > >> Please pardon me from asking questions like this as i am no > >> person > >> to debate with you - either by knowledge or age. > >> > >> Thanks again > >> Pradeep > >> > >> > >> > >> vedic- astrology , "Chandrashekhar Sharma" > >> <boxdel> wrote: > >> > Dear Pradeep, > >> > The confusion arises because of the fact that some > >> Sanskrita words > >> loose > >> > their import when translated to English. The shloka does > >> not say > >> Damage or > >> > Harm. It says"Bhrashta". The word has different conotations > >> depending on the > >> > context. Like Sthanabhrashta would be something like > >> loosing one's > >> place > >> > whereas Sheelabhrashta would mean one whose moral are > >> loose. The > >> same when > >> > said to be done by other would mean harming or damaging > >> other's > >> modesty. > >> > Limitations of the language does sometimes pose a problem in > >> conveyance of > >> > the corect meaning of sanskrita words. This is why I have said > >> many a times > >> > that Astrology is better understood if one learns it in > >> Sanskrit > >> or Sanskrit > >> > based Indian languages. > >> > Hope this helps, > >> > Chandrashekhar. > >> > > >> > vijayadas_pradeep [ vijayadas_pradeep@y ...] > >> > Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:38 PM > >> > vedic astrology > >> > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of > >> destroying the > >> > house it and Saturn Protects// > >> > > >> > > >> > Dear Chandrashekar ji > >> > > >> > I now understand why Jupiter placement can result in > >> difficult > >> > outcomes. > >> > > >> > Do you mean to say if jupiter is placed in puthrasthana > >> ,then the > >> > individuals can be intelligent but their children will > >> suffer.This is > >> > just to make sure, if i have understood your example. > >> > > >> > But i have one slight difference in opinion regarding the > >> statement - > >> > 'Jupiter destroys or harms'. > >> > > >> > This statement makes us puzzled about the meaning > >> vis-a-vis the > >> > nature of Jupiter. > >> > > >> > Because when we say it destroys - it means jupiter's > >> action was > >> > intented towards destruction.But that is not the > >> case.Jupiter > >> tends > >> > to stick to principles even during adverse situations.This > >> behaviour > >> > makes him unable to protect.But his intention was never to > >> destroy > >> > nor the behaviour deserves destruction. > >> > > >> > But if you take another example > >> > When Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved > >> destruction. > >> > > >> > Though both the behaviours resulted(ends) in the > >> destruction of > >> > the 'houses',the means are not the same. > >> > > >> > Hence i believe if we say Jupiter is unable to protect > >> the house > >> in > >> > which it is placed,during all circumstances, it becomes less > >> ambigue - > >> > vis-a-vis its nature,because destruction was never intended. > >> > > >> > Though the end result is same i feel there is a > >> difference in the > >> > inherent meaning. > >> > > >> > Kindly correct me if i am wrong. > >> > > >> > Also should one learn something from this lesson - to > >> live in > >> Kali > >> > Yuga! > >> > > >> > Thanks and respect > >> > Pradeep > >> > > >> > vedic- astrology , "Chandrashekhar > >> Sharma" > >> > <boxdel> wrote: > >> > > Dear Pradeep, > >> > > Certain principles are given by the sages and are found > >> to be > >> true > >> > in their > >> > > application. Having said that, have you observed that the > >> children > >> > living > >> > > with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? This is > >> what > >> happens > >> > with > >> > > Jupiter placement in a house. You will also not ,if one > >> wants > >> to go > >> > to > >> > > Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the Daanaavas > >> more > >> often > >> > than > >> > > other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. Devas > >> invariably > >> > got > >> > > defeated and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, Vishnu, > >> Durga etc. > >> > Saturn > >> > > usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi Rahu > >> was their > >> > Senapati. > >> > > About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do with his > >> ability to > >> > protect. > >> > > He protects one from bad indications of that house. > >> These are > >> my > >> > personal > >> > > opinions and other worthies might have different opinions. > >> > > Chandrashekhar. > >> > > > >> > > ---- > >> > > > >> > > vedic astrology > >> > > Monday, August 25, 2003 08:17:02 PM > >> > > vedic astrology > >> > > [vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter capable of > >> destroying > >> > the house > >> > > it and Saturn Protects// > >> > > > >> > > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members. > >> > > > >> > > I have seen from the archives ,where you had > >> participated in > >> > > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy > >> the bhava > >> in > >> > > which > >> > > it is placed and Saturn Protects. > >> > > > >> > > Here I have some queries. > >> > > > >> > > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter > >> to try > >> and > >> > > harm > >> > > or destroy. > >> > > > >> > > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses > >> (6,8,12 > >> > etc) - > >> > > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad > >> > > (negative,negative results in positive) should bring > >> good. But > >> if > >> > > saturn > >> > > can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the > >> above > >> > > statement > >> > > loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding > >> of this > >> > > 'negative-negative' is wrong. > >> > > > >> > > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel > >> it can > >> test > >> > > the > >> > > individual always on the path of life,which can be > >> painfull and > >> > hard > >> > > as > >> > > well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an > >> individual > >> can > >> > > combat > >> > > the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of > >> patience > >> and > >> > > other > >> > > mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right? > >> > > > >> > > But why is it trying to destroy? > >> > > > >> > > Also doesn't other considerations like > >> strength,position etc > >> come > >> > > into > >> > > play while deciding on this? > >> > > > >> > > If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by > >> virtue of > >> > > which > >> > > it > >> > > is trying to behave like this, it would be helpful. > >> > > > >> > > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good > >> and bad) > >> > about > >> > > jupiter placed in ascendant. > >> > > > >> > > Thanks a lot > >> > > Pradeep > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Sponsor > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Archives: vedic- astrology > >> > > > >> > > Group info: vedic- > >> astrology/info.html > >> > > > >> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > >> > > > >> > > > >> Terms of > >> Service. > >> > > >> > > >> > Sponsor > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Archives: vedic- astrology > >> > > >> > Group info: vedic- > >> astrology/info.html > >> > > >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > >> > >> > > >> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > >> > > >> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > >> > > >> > Terms of > >> Service. > >> > > >> > --- > >> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > >> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system ( http://www.grisoft.com). > >> <http://www.grisoft.com%29.> > >> > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Group info: > >> vedic astrology/info.html > >> > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > >> vedic astrology- > >> > >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > >> > >> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > >> > >> Terms of > >> Service <> . > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > >> > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > >> vedic astrology- > >> > >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > >> > >> > >> > >> Terms of > >> Service <> . > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > [click here] > > <http://rd./M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1 705082686:HM/A=1693352/R=0/SIG=11tralmvc/*http://www.netflix.com/Defa ult?mqso=60178293&partid=3170658> > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 Dear Pradeep. It is "Sthana bhrashta karoti jeevaha. sthana rakshati mandaha.". I have not said that Jupiter damages all indications of a house. Astrology is not a mathematical science, though projected as such by many. The Astrologer has to assess the chart as a whole and arrive at the impact the relative planetary position will have on the horoscope as a whole. About 2nd house placement of Jupiter , it does cause problems to 2nd house unless placed in his own Rasi.About his placement in 1st house ,as you say you have own experience. I have nowhere said that nature of Guru is Bhrashtra. I have said that Guru causes the indication of the sthana in which he is placed to become blemished(Bharashtra).I am emphasising on word Bhrashta, because that is what the shloka says and its translation into english is indeed difficult. I look at astrological principles from an analytical point of view. I ,generally, do not try to associate them with Scriptural stories. The reason is that the meaning depends on one's own interpretation of scriptures.And believe me they are capable of different interpretations, because of brevity of Sanskrit language. The sanskrit grammar has undergone many changes over the thousands of years that it has been in existence. It is said " Laksham Vyakaranam Proktam, Chaturlaksham Tu Jyotisham." However some tend to think that the planets have fixed nature ( and they might have their own experiences to believe such), whereas the nature vis-a-vis a Jataka would depend on many factors such as house ownership, placement,aspects, Varga positions and so on. The theory being advanced that Jupiter always protects, though attractive does not explain why his place ment in 5th in strength is harmful to getting progeny or 2nd house placement gives not favourable results. It also tends to ridicule the Great parashara who says that Jupiter is said to be "Papa" a malefic for Taurus,Gemini,Virgo,Libra,Capricorn and Aquarius.In addition , the reason of his being neutral to his Moola trikona Rasi Sagitarius as stated by parashara would be wrong if we accept the hypothessis of Jupiter being auscpicious no matter what and where. You could find out whether the principle is right or wrong by applying to real life charts. This is the only way to ascertain whether a hypothesis is correct or not. Hope this helps, Chandrashekhar. vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep ]Friday, August 29, 2003 9:50 PMTo: vedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects// Dear chandrashekar jiCould you kindly quote the shloka related to guru.This is just out of curiosity.Then from your mails i have understood that,you are very particular about the 'Bhrashta' while speaking about jupiter.I believe apart from understanding the inherent meaning, you might be having some experience related to the Guru and Bhrashta,perhaps with people whom you know well.If you could quote some real life experiences it would become more useful.Because if we consider a person having jupiter in 2nd house - The person should have problem related to money savings,speech,family,and other aspects reprsntd by 2nd house.How is this possible for all the aspects?I am totally with you regarding the strictness which guru might impose on the houses in which he is placed - at least regarding first house (because of own experience,also forming hamsa yoga).But again first house represents -physique,appearance,intellect,complexion,happiness etc.But could you explain how or why gurus prescence should result in damage of all these aspects.I dont want to conclude anything for me.I want to wait and understand what the sages have said. So from your experience and knowledge i am trying to gain some real understanding regarding this.Also Zoranjis mail was conveying the message - one should differentiate the nature of the planets from other factors.But i understood from your mails that the very nature of guru is resulting in 'Bhrashta'.So how do we relate this.regds & thanksPradeep--- In vedic astrology, Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa@N...> wrote:> Om Namo Narayanaya,> Dear Chandrakeshar,> I see.. I was relying upon a subject.. This hypotesyse given as the > subject " Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn > protects" is highly dubious and should not be followed...> Best wishes> Zoran> > Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote:> > > Dear Zoran,> >> > You are perhaps misinterpreting the Sanskrita word Guru with the word > > Guru as planet used in the original post.I was just trying to clear > > the misunderstanding when Guru as in planet was being taken as Gur as > > in the master by explaining the principles from both the hypothesis.> >> > Regards,> >> > Chandrashekhar.> >> > > > Zoran Radosavljevic [ahimsa@N...]> > Thursday, August 28, 2003 7:50 AM> > vedic astrology> > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of> > destroying the house it and Saturn Protects//> >> > Om Namo Narayanaya,> > Dear Chandrakeshar and members,> > Sorry for butting in so abrubtly without the following of the> > previous mails... It has been experience among my students and> > those who learn Jyotish> > that some basic confusion is very strong. One should never mix> > the natural tendency of a Graha and functional role of the Graha..> > Natural benefics as Guru who is the Bhagwan of the chart will> > NEVER harm any point but on the contrary will IMPROVE all points> > he touches> > in the chart by means of his NATURE. However, each graha has a> > role and different states. For instance, such guru may rule 8th> > house which is> > Randra or the vulnarable place, the worst house. It is akin to a> > good person having a negative role. E.G> suppose, a good neigbhour> > has to tell you that> > someone who is dear has passed away... it will never change his> > nature, he will still remain a good neigbour.. Furthermore, graha> > may give bad results even if benefic if placed in bad avastas.> > However, it doesnot again change its nature.. The malefic results> > are given due to graha bad mood. Thus, if guru gives bad results, it> > may give only on the bases of its rulership of bad houses, or> > being placed in bad avastas. It can never change his natural> > benefic tendency..> > Hope this may help> > Best wishes> > Zoran> >> > Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote:> >> >> Dear Pradeep,> >>> >> The analogy of student/king is misunderstood. It was an aside to> >> the main topic and just to understand the idea of why the> >> student's hous e would feel unconfortable by presence of Guru.> >>> >> It is well to understand that the results that Jupiter will give> >> in each case would vary depending on his house lordship and house> >> of placement. However the streak of damage(Bhrashta) to the house> >> would remain, though modified.If he house is bad the results> >> could actually be good as the bad efects get lessened.> >>> >> Chandrashekhar.> >>> >> > >>> >> > >> vijayadas_pradeep [ vijayadas_pradeep ]> >> Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:39 AM> >> vedic astrology> >> Subject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of> >> destroying the house it and Saturn Protects//> >>> >> Dear Chandrashekar ji> >>> >> This suggestion is really good.> >> I too feel one should learn astrology from the original textual> >> language or its derivatives, after reading your mail.> >>> >> But now after seeing your mail for amol ji,i am still having> >> some> >> doubts.> >>> >> As you have said, even though your example-regarding> >> student,guru> >> and all cannot be generalised - I am taking that example to> >> clear my> >> doubts.> >>> >> Here i believe the nature of the students and guru has to be> >> considered - Similarly the king and minister.> >>> >> If both are of the same nature - then no one has to> >> suffer,'Bhrashta'.> >> 1)Similarly if jupiter is placed in a friendly house or> >> deeptha or> >> swakshethra - harmony is not troubled ,under normal> >> circumstances.> >>> >> 2)But as the lagna or the individual is subject to various> >> influences within the chart - there can be disharmony.> >>> >> Hence do you consider my point(1) as haaving some relevance?> >> or shld we always give importance only to point (2).> >>> >> Please pardon me from asking questions like this as i am no> >> person> >> to debate with you - either by knowledge or age.> >>> >> Thanks again> >> Pradeep> >>> >>> >>> >> vedic astrology , "Chandrashekhar Sharma"> >> <boxdel> wrote:> >> > Dear Pradeep,> >> > The confusion arises because of the fact that some> >> Sanskrita words> >> loose> >> > their import when translated to English. The shloka does> >> not say> >> Damage or> >> > Harm. It says"Bhrashta". The word has different conotations> >> depending on the> >> > context. Like Sthanabhrashta would be something like> >> loosing one's> >> place> >> > whereas Sheelabhrashta would mean one whose moral are> >> loose. The> >> same when> >> > said to be done by other would mean harming or damaging> >> other's> >> modesty.> >> > Limitations of the language does sometimes pose a problem in> >> conveyance of> >> > the corect meaning of sanskrita words. This is why I have said> >> many a times> >> > that Astrology is better understood if one learns it in> >> Sanskrit> >> or Sanskrit> >> > based Indian languages.> >> > Hope this helps,> >> > Chandrashekhar.> >> > > >> > vijayadas_pradeep [ vijayadas_pradeep@y ...]> >> > Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:38 PM> >> > vedic astrology> >> > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of> >> destroying the> >> > house it and Saturn Protects//> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Chandrashekar ji> >> >> >> > I now understand why Jupiter placement can result in> >> difficult> >> > outcomes.> >> >> >> > Do you mean to say if jupiter is placed in puthrasthana> >> ,then the> >> > individuals can be intelligent but their children will> >> suffer.This is> >> > just to make sure, if i have understood your example.> >> >> >> > But i have one slight difference in opinion regarding the> >> statement -> >> > 'Jupiter destroys or harms'.> >> >> >> > This statement makes us puzzled about the meaning> >> vis-a-vis the> >> > nature of Jupiter.> >> >> >> > Because when we say it destroys - it means jupiter's> >> action was> >> > intented towards destruction.But that is not the> >> case.Jupiter> >> tends> >> > to stick to principles even during adverse situations.This> >> behaviour> >> > makes him unable to protect.But his intention was never to> >> destroy> >> > nor the behaviour deserves destruction.> >> >> >> > But if you take another example> >> > When Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved> >> destruction.> >> >> >> > Though both the behaviours resulted(ends) in the> >> destruction of> >> > the 'houses',the means are not the same.> >> >> >> > Hence i believe if we say Jupiter is unable to protect> >> the house> >> in> >> > which it is placed,during all circumstances, it becomes less> >> ambigue -> >> > vis-a-vis its nature,because destruction was never intended.> >> >> >> > Though the end result is same i feel there is a> >> difference in the> >> > inherent meaning.> >> >> >> > Kindly correct me if i am wrong.> >> >> >> > Also should one learn something from this lesson - to> >> live in> >> Kali> >> > Yuga!> >> >> >> > Thanks and respect> >> > Pradeep> >> >> >> > vedic astrology , "Chandrashekhar> >> Sharma"> >> > <boxdel> wrote:> >> > > Dear Pradeep,> >> > > Certain principles are given by the sages and are found> >> to be> >> true> >> > in their> >> > > application. Having said that, have you observed that the> >> children> >> > living> >> > > with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? This is> >> what> >> happens> >> > with> >> > > Jupiter placement in a house. You will also not ,if one> >> wants> >> to go> >> > to> >> > > Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the Daanaavas> >> more> >> often> >> > than> >> > > other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. Devas> >> invariably> >> > got> >> > > defeated and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, Vishnu,> >> Durga etc.> >> > Saturn> >> > > usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi Rahu> >> was their> >> > Senapati.> >> > > About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do with his> >> ability to> >> > protect.> >> > > He protects one from bad indications of that house.> >> These are> >> my> >> > personal> >> > > opinions and other worthies might have different opinions.> >> > > Chandrashekhar.> >> > >> >> > > ----> >> > >> >> > > vedic astrology> >> > > Monday, August 25, 2003 08:17:02 PM> >> > > vedic astrology> >> > > [vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter capable of> >> destroying> >> > the house> >> > > it and Saturn Protects//> >> > >> >> > > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members.> >> > >> >> > > I have seen from the archives ,where you had> >> participated in> >> > > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy> >> the bhava> >> in> >> > > which> >> > > it is placed and Saturn Protects.> >> > >> >> > > Here I have some queries.> >> > >> >> > > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter> >> to try> >> and> >> > > harm> >> > > or destroy.> >> > >> >> > > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses> >> (6,8,12> >> > etc) -> >> > > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad> >> > > (negative,negative results in positive) should bring> >> good. But> >> if> >> > > saturn> >> > > can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the> >> above> >> > > statement> >> > > loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding> >> of this> >> > > 'negative-negative' is wrong.> >> > >> >> > > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel> >> it can> >> test> >> > > the> >> > > individual always on the path of life,which can be> >> painfull and> >> > hard> >> > > as> >> > > well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an> >> individual> >> can> >> > > combat> >> > > the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of> >> patience> >> and> >> > > other> >> > > mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right?> >> > >> >> > > But why is it trying to destroy?> >> > >> >> > > Also doesn't other considerations like> >> strength,position etc> >> come> >> > > into> >> > > play while deciding on this?> >> > >> >> > > If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by> >> virtue of> >> > > which> >> > > it> >> > > is trying to behave like this, it would be helpful.> >> > >> >> > > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good> >> and bad)> >> > about> >> > > jupiter placed in ascendant.> >> > >> >> > > Thanks a lot> >> > > Pradeep> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > Sponsor> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > Archives: vedic astrology> >> > >> >> > > Group info: vedic-> >> astrology/info.html> >> > >> >> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> >> > > >> > >> >> > > > >> > >> >> > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> >> > >> >> > > Your use of is subject to the > >> Terms of> >> Service.> >> >> >> >> >> > Sponsor> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Archives: vedic astrology> >> >> >> > Group info: vedic-> >> astrology/info.html> >> >> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> >> > >> >> >> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Terms of> >> Service.> >> >> >> > ---> >> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> >> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system ( http://www.grisoft.com).> >> <http://www.grisoft.com%29.>> >> > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03> >>> >>> >>> >> Archives: vedic astrology> >>> >> Group info:> >> vedic astrology/info.html> >>> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to> >> vedic astrology-> >>> >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> >>> >> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> >>> >> Your use of is subject to the Terms of> >> Service <> .> >>> >>> >>> >> Archives: vedic astrology> >>> >> Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> >>> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to> >> vedic astrology-> >>> >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> >>> >> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> >>> >> Your use of is subject to the Terms of> >> Service <> .> >> >> >> > Sponsor> > > > [click here] > > <http://rd./M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705082686:HM/A=1693352/R=0/SIG=11tralmvc/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178293&partid=3170658> > >> >> >> > Archives: vedic astrology> >> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> >> > > >> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> >> > Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service > > <> ..Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 Dear Chandrashekarji Thanks for the detailed reply. So i understand jeevaha and mandaha references are jupiter and saturn respectively.No statement can stand own its own.What is the circumstance in which this shloka is told by Parashara. Jupiter placement in first house(in own sign) ofcourse puts one under tremendous pressure to be just to everyone and react fast to things which one think are not correct.Thus this placement might help others more, than the self, atleast in certain aspects(because you have to lose something to balance the other) But at the same time i should say this gives one great craving for knowledge and also the blessing named luck.Really helps fifth and ninth houses.So i feel though there are difficulties due to the strictness,overall it is a blessing,if in strength plus other factors . The brevity of sanskrit is amazing. Also your statement ' Guru for Sagittarius' is neutral - keeps me thinking.Plus Papa for some 6 rashis! Thanks a lot Pradeep vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Pradeep. > It is "Sthana bhrashta karoti jeevaha. sthana rakshati mandaha.". I have not > said that Jupiter damages all indications of a house. Astrology is not a > mathematical science, though projected as such by many. The Astrologer has > to assess the chart as a whole and arrive at the impact the relative > planetary position will have on the horoscope as a whole. > > About 2nd house placement of Jupiter , it does cause problems to 2nd house > unless placed in his own Rasi.About his placement in 1st house ,as you say > you have own experience. > > I have nowhere said that nature of Guru is Bhrashtra. I have said that Guru > causes the indication of the sthana in which he is placed to become > blemished(Bharashtra).I am emphasising on word Bhrashta, because that is > what the shloka says and its translation into english is indeed difficult. I > look at astrological principles from an analytical point of view. I > ,generally, do not try to associate them with Scriptural stories. > > The reason is that the meaning depends on one's own interpretation of > scriptures.And believe me they are capable of different interpretations, > because of brevity of Sanskrit language. The sanskrit grammar has undergone > many changes over the thousands of years that it has been in existence. It > is said " Laksham Vyakaranam Proktam, Chaturlaksham Tu Jyotisham." > > However some tend to think that the planets have fixed nature ( and they > might have their own experiences to believe such), whereas the nature > vis-a-vis a Jataka would depend on many factors such as house ownership, > placement,aspects, Varga positions and so on. > > The theory being advanced that Jupiter always protects, though attractive > does not explain why his place ment in 5th in strength is harmful to getting > progeny or 2nd house placement gives not favourable results. It also tends > to ridicule the Great parashara who says that Jupiter is said to be "Papa" a > malefic for Taurus,Gemini,Virgo,Libra,Capricorn and Aquarius.In addition , > the reason of his being neutral to his Moola trikona Rasi Sagitarius as > stated by parashara would be wrong if we accept the hypothessis of Jupiter > being auscpicious no matter what and where. > > You could find out whether the principle is right or wrong by applying to > real life charts. This is the only way to ascertain whether a hypothesis is > correct or not. > > Hope this helps, > Chandrashekhar. > > > > vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep] > Friday, August 29, 2003 9:50 PM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the > house it and Saturn Protects// > > > > Dear chandrashekar ji > > Could you kindly quote the shloka related to guru.This is just out > of curiosity. > > Then from your mails i have understood that,you are very particular > about the 'Bhrashta' while speaking about jupiter. > > I believe apart from understanding the inherent meaning, you might > be having some experience related to the Guru and Bhrashta,perhaps > with people whom you know well. > > If you could quote some real life experiences it would become more > useful. > Because if we consider a person having jupiter in 2nd house - The > person should have problem related to money > savings,speech,family,and other aspects reprsntd by 2nd house.How is > this possible for all the aspects? > > I am totally with you regarding the strictness which guru might > impose on the houses in which he is placed - at least regarding > first house (because of own experience,also forming hamsa yoga). > > But again first house represents - > physique,appearance,intellect,complexion,happiness etc.But could you > explain how or why gurus prescence should result in damage of all > these aspects. > > I dont want to conclude anything for me.I want to wait and > understand what the sages have said. > > So from your experience and knowledge i am trying to gain some real > understanding regarding this. > > Also Zoranjis mail was conveying the message - one should > differentiate the nature of the planets from other factors. > But i understood from your mails that the very nature of guru is > resulting in 'Bhrashta'.So how do we relate this. > > regds & thanks > Pradeep > > vedic astrology, Zoran Radosavljevic > <ahimsa@N...> wrote: > > Om Namo Narayanaya, > > Dear Chandrakeshar, > > I see.. I was relying upon a subject.. This hypotesyse given as > the > > subject " Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn > > protects" is highly dubious and should not be followed... > > Best wishes > > Zoran > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote: > > > > > Dear Zoran, > > > > > > You are perhaps misinterpreting the Sanskrita word Guru with the > word > > > Guru as planet used in the original post.I was just trying to > clear > > > the misunderstanding when Guru as in planet was being taken as > Gur as > > > in the master by explaining the principles from both the > hypothesis. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > Zoran Radosavljevic [ahimsa@N...] > > > Thursday, August 28, 2003 7:50 AM > > > vedic astrology > > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable > of > > > destroying the house it and Saturn Protects// > > > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya, > > > Dear Chandrakeshar and members, > > > Sorry for butting in so abrubtly without the following of the > > > previous mails... It has been experience among my students > and > > > those who learn Jyotish > > > that some basic confusion is very strong. One should never > mix > > > the natural tendency of a Graha and functional role of the > Graha.. > > > Natural benefics as Guru who is the Bhagwan of the chart will > > > NEVER harm any point but on the contrary will IMPROVE all > points > > > he touches > > > in the chart by means of his NATURE. However, each graha has > a > > > role and different states. For instance, such guru may rule > 8th > > > house which is > > > Randra or the vulnarable place, the worst house. It is akin > to a > > > good person having a negative role. E.G> suppose, a good > neigbhour > > > has to tell you that > > > someone who is dear has passed away... it will never change > his > > > nature, he will still remain a good neigbour.. Furthermore, > graha > > > may give bad results even if benefic if placed in bad > avastas. > > > However, it doesnot again change its nature.. The malefic > results > > > are given due to graha bad mood. Thus, if guru gives bad > results, it > > > may give only on the bases of its rulership of bad houses, or > > > being placed in bad avastas. It can never change his natural > > > benefic tendency.. > > > Hope this may help > > > Best wishes > > > Zoran > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote: > > > > > >> Dear Pradeep, > > >> > > >> The analogy of student/king is misunderstood. It was an > aside to > > >> the main topic and just to understand the idea of why the > > >> student's hous e would feel unconfortable by presence of > Guru. > > >> > > >> It is well to understand that the results that Jupiter will > give > > >> in each case would vary depending on his house lordship and > house > > >> of placement. However the streak of damage(Bhrashta) to the > house > > >> would remain, though modified.If he house is bad the results > > >> could actually be good as the bad efects get lessened. > > >> > > >> Chandrashekhar. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> vijayadas_pradeep [ > vijayadas_pradeep ] > > >> Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:39 AM > > >> vedic astrology > > >> [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter > capable of > > >> destroying the house it and Saturn Protects// > > >> > > >> Dear Chandrashekar ji > > >> > > >> This suggestion is really good. > > >> I too feel one should learn astrology from the original > textual > > >> language or its derivatives, after reading your mail. > > >> > > >> But now after seeing your mail for amol ji,i am still > having > > >> some > > >> doubts. > > >> > > >> As you have said, even though your example-regarding > > >> student,guru > > >> and all cannot be generalised - I am taking that > example to > > >> clear my > > >> doubts. > > >> > > >> Here i believe the nature of the students and guru has > to be > > >> considered - Similarly the king and minister. > > >> > > >> If both are of the same nature - then no one has to > > >> suffer,'Bhrashta'. > > >> 1)Similarly if jupiter is placed in a friendly house or > > >> deeptha or > > >> swakshethra - harmony is not troubled ,under normal > > >> circumstances. > > >> > > >> 2)But as the lagna or the individual is subject to > various > > >> influences within the chart - there can be disharmony. > > >> > > >> Hence do you consider my point(1) as haaving some > relevance? > > >> or shld we always give importance only to point (2). > > >> > > >> Please pardon me from asking questions like this as i > am no > > >> person > > >> to debate with you - either by knowledge or age. > > >> > > >> Thanks again > > >> Pradeep > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> vedic- > astrology , "Chandrashekhar Sharma" > > >> <boxdel> wrote: > > >> > Dear Pradeep, > > >> > The confusion arises because of the fact that some > > >> Sanskrita words > > >> loose > > >> > their import when translated to English. The shloka > does > > >> not say > > >> Damage or > > >> > Harm. It says"Bhrashta". The word has different > conotations > > >> depending on the > > >> > context. Like Sthanabhrashta would be something like > > >> loosing one's > > >> place > > >> > whereas Sheelabhrashta would mean one whose moral are > > >> loose. The > > >> same when > > >> > said to be done by other would mean harming or > damaging > > >> other's > > >> modesty. > > >> > Limitations of the language does sometimes pose a > problem in > > >> conveyance of > > >> > the corect meaning of sanskrita words. This is why I > have said > > >> many a times > > >> > that Astrology is better understood if one learns it > in > > >> Sanskrit > > >> or Sanskrit > > >> > based Indian languages. > > >> > Hope this helps, > > >> > Chandrashekhar. > > >> > > > >> > vijayadas_pradeep [ > vijayadas_pradeep@y ...] > > >> > Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:38 PM > > >> > vedic astrology > > >> > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter > capable of > > >> destroying the > > >> > house it and Saturn Protects// > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Dear Chandrashekar ji > > >> > > > >> > I now understand why Jupiter placement can result in > > >> difficult > > >> > outcomes. > > >> > > > >> > Do you mean to say if jupiter is placed in > puthrasthana > > >> ,then the > > >> > individuals can be intelligent but their children > will > > >> suffer.This is > > >> > just to make sure, if i have understood your > example. > > >> > > > >> > But i have one slight difference in opinion > regarding the > > >> statement - > > >> > 'Jupiter destroys or harms'. > > >> > > > >> > This statement makes us puzzled about the meaning > > >> vis-a-vis the > > >> > nature of Jupiter. > > >> > > > >> > Because when we say it destroys - it means jupiter's > > >> action was > > >> > intented towards destruction.But that is not the > > >> case.Jupiter > > >> tends > > >> > to stick to principles even during adverse > situations.This > > >> behaviour > > >> > makes him unable to protect.But his intention was > never to > > >> destroy > > >> > nor the behaviour deserves destruction. > > >> > > > >> > But if you take another example > > >> > When Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved > > >> destruction. > > >> > > > >> > Though both the behaviours resulted(ends) in the > > >> destruction of > > >> > the 'houses',the means are not the same. > > >> > > > >> > Hence i believe if we say Jupiter is unable to > protect > > >> the house > > >> in > > >> > which it is placed,during all circumstances, it > becomes less > > >> ambigue - > > >> > vis-a-vis its nature,because destruction was never > intended. > > >> > > > >> > Though the end result is same i feel there is a > > >> difference in the > > >> > inherent meaning. > > >> > > > >> > Kindly correct me if i am wrong. > > >> > > > >> > Also should one learn something from this lesson - > to > > >> live in > > >> Kali > > >> > Yuga! > > >> > > > >> > Thanks and respect > > >> > Pradeep > > >> > > > >> > vedic- > astrology , "Chandrashekhar > > >> Sharma" > > >> > <boxdel> wrote: > > >> > > Dear Pradeep, > > >> > > Certain principles are given by the sages and are > found > > >> to be > > >> true > > >> > in their > > >> > > application. Having said that, have you observed > that the > > >> children > > >> > living > > >> > > with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? > This is > > >> what > > >> happens > > >> > with > > >> > > Jupiter placement in a house. You will also > not ,if one > > >> wants > > >> to go > > >> > to > > >> > > Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the > Daanaavas > > >> more > > >> often > > >> > than > > >> > > other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. > Devas > > >> invariably > > >> > got > > >> > > defeated and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, > Vishnu, > > >> Durga etc. > > >> > Saturn > > >> > > usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi > Rahu > > >> was their > > >> > Senapati. > > >> > > About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do > with his > > >> ability to > > >> > protect. > > >> > > He protects one from bad indications of that > house. > > >> These are > > >> my > > >> > personal > > >> > > opinions and other worthies might have different > opinions. > > >> > > Chandrashekhar. > > >> > > > > >> > > ---- > > >> > > > > >> > > vedic astrology > > >> > > Monday, August 25, 2003 08:17:02 PM > > >> > > vedic astrology > > >> > > [vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter > capable of > > >> destroying > > >> > the house > > >> > > it and Saturn Protects// > > >> > > > > >> > > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members. > > >> > > > > >> > > I have seen from the archives ,where you had > > >> participated in > > >> > > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to > destroy > > >> the bhava > > >> in > > >> > > which > > >> > > it is placed and Saturn Protects. > > >> > > > > >> > > Here I have some queries. > > >> > > > > >> > > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like > jupiter > > >> to try > > >> and > > >> > > harm > > >> > > or destroy. > > >> > > > > >> > > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad > houses > > >> (6,8,12 > > >> > etc) - > > >> > > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad > and bad > > >> > > (negative,negative results in positive) should > bring > > >> good. But > > >> if > > >> > > saturn > > >> > > can protect all the houses where it is > placed ,then the > > >> above > > >> > > statement > > >> > > loses ist significance.Pls correct if my > understanding > > >> of this > > >> > > 'negative-negative' is wrong. > > >> > > > > >> > > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - > I feel > > >> it can > > >> test > > >> > > the > > >> > > individual always on the path of life,which can be > > >> painfull and > > >> > hard > > >> > > as > > >> > > well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an > > >> individual > > >> can > > >> > > combat > > >> > > the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots > of > > >> patience > > >> and > > >> > > other > > >> > > mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i > right? > > >> > > > > >> > > But why is it trying to destroy? > > >> > > > > >> > > Also doesn't other considerations like > > >> strength,position etc > > >> come > > >> > > into > > >> > > play while deciding on this? > > >> > > > > >> > > If you can explain the inherent nature of > Jupiter, by > > >> virtue of > > >> > > which > > >> > > it > > >> > > is trying to behave like this, it would be > helpful. > > >> > > > > >> > > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences > (good > > >> and bad) > > >> > about > > >> > > jupiter placed in ascendant. > > >> > > > > >> > > Thanks a lot > > >> > > Pradeep > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Sponsor > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Archives: vedic- > astrology > > >> > > > > >> > > Group info: vedic- > > >> astrology/info.html > > >> > > > > >> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > ........ May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > >> > > > > >> > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri > Krishnaarpanamastu || > > >> > > > > >> > > Your use of is subject to the > > >> Terms of > > >> Service. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Sponsor > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Archives: vedic- > astrology > > >> > > > >> > Group info: vedic- > > >> astrology/info.html > > >> > > > >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > >> > > >> > > > >> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > >> > > > >> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri > Krishnaarpanamastu || > > >> > > > >> > Your use of is subject to the > Terms of > > >> Service. > > >> > > > >> > --- > > >> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > >> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system ( > http://www.grisoft.com). > > >> <http://www.grisoft.com%29.> > > >> > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release > 8/19/03 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Archives: vedic- astrology > > >> > > >> Group info: > > >> vedic- astrology/info.html > > >> > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > >> vedic astrology- > > >> > > >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > >> > > >> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu > || > > >> > > >> > Terms of > > >> Service <> . > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > >> > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > >> vedic astrology- > > >> > > >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > >> > > >> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > >> > > >> Terms of > > >> Service <> . > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > [click here] > > > > <http://rd./M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1 > 705082686:HM/A=1693352/R=0/SIG=11tralmvc/*http://www.netflix.com/Defa > ult?mqso=60178293&partid=3170658> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service > > > <> . > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... 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Guest guest Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 Om Namo Narayanaya, Dear Chandrakeshar, Dear Pradeep. It is "Sthana bhrashta karoti jeevaha. sthana rakshati mandaha.". I have not said that Jupiter damages all indications of a house. Astrology is not a mathematical science, though projected as such by many. The Astrologer has to assess the chart as a whole and arrive at the impact the relative planetary position will have on the horoscope as a whole. That is correct. We should have in mind the following: Parashar and Jaimini are unquestioned authorities. All other classics should be carefully read and their shlkokas verified. in practical expereince. About 2nd house placement of Jupiter , it does cause problems to 2nd house unless placed in his own Rasi.About his placement in 1st house ,as you say you have own experience. That is karaka bhava nasha, but why is so. Parashara stated that for finance, guru in own , multrikon or exalted sign in 2nd or with Mangal anywhere will give smooth finance. Apart from these signs, guru may be found in great friend's sign, friend's sign, neutral, enemy, great enemy and debilitated sign. From neutral sign further, guru will not give smooth finance, not on the basis of his nature, but on the basis of bad avastas which will definitely damage the house. Even deena avasta which is formed when guru is placed in neutral sign is said by Satyacharya to give bad results.The question remains why would guru in friendly sign not give smooth finance? Let's see the following situations: Guru in friendly signs may be found for Kark, Thula, Makar and Meen Lagnas, for each lagna, guru would rule a dustana house, apart from Meen lagna where guru would rule both kendra houses, which according to Kendra Adhipatya dosha will lose benevolence. So Parashara statement about guru in 2nd and smooth finance is clear. IT is yet doubtfull whether guru's nature is resposnible for damaging a house. We can also seek the reason in Natural Kal Purush, where guru rules 12th house of Pisces, so Guru placement in 2nd house or any other house will always carry the some of the effects of the 12th house. However some tend to think that the planets have fixed nature ( and they might have their own experiences to believe such), whereas the nature vis-a-vis a Jataka would depend on many factors such as house ownership, placement,aspects, Varga positions and so on. I agree, but also try to always explain to my students here in Serbia, not to mix them but to add them all together. For example, if we say that Shani is Yog karak for Taurus Lagna, we cannot say that he is of moderate infleunce, since he is natural papa and rulership shuba. No, no way... If Shani is for example placed in 5th house, as a natural papa he will still damage living things of a bhava such as children, yet, non-living things of a bhava such as rise in life will be very well pronounced due to shani rulership of 9th and 10th houses.. We should evaluate all aspects and carefully add them together... The theory being advanced that Jupiter always protects, though attractive does not explain why his place ment in 5th in strength is harmful to getting progeny or 2nd house placement gives not favourable results. It also tends to ridicule the Great parashara who says that Jupiter is said to be "Papa" a malefic for Taurus,Gemini,Virgo,Libra,Capricorn and Aquarius.In addition , the reason of his being neutral to his Moola trikona Rasi Sagitarius as stated by parashara would be wrong if we accept the hypothessis of Jupiter being auscpicious no matter what and where. I wish to emphasize that Jupiter is by NATURE great benefic, however sometimes, even good people have to partake in some unhappy events. Suppose, someone has died and a good neigbhour has to bring the news. By bringing the bad news, he will not become a bad person.. See? So, you are right about this, but the corruption will never come from the nature of Guru but from his role in the chart, from his possible placement in bad avastas, bad company etc.. Even then he will not tend to corrupt, but simply he will FAIL TO PROTECT!!!! WHen guru is in 5th house in strength, his karakatwa double, and his focus goes more on knowledge, not on children.. I do not beleive that Guru in 5th house will not give progeny, I beleive that Guru in 5th will simply fail to protect a living things of a house such as children, from other unfavourable infleunces. See the charts where Guru is placed in 5th house, and you will see that Lord of 5th was badly placed, and other influences on the 5th house were bad. Many times when guru in 5th was placed in good navamsa position children were there, and there were no problems, even for Kumbha Lagna, where strong guru is said to give no children. When Parashara says that he is Papa, it is based on his rulership, since the whole chapter is based on the graha effects as per rulership. Being Neutral for Dhanu Lagna is stated due to Kendra Adhipati Dosha, not his own nature. So it is doubtfull, whether his nature is responsible for bad effects, see my point? There are certain merits in Karaka Bhava Nasha theory, I admit, however they should not be overemphasized.. You could find out whether the principle is right or wrong by applying to real life charts. This is the only way to ascertain whether a hypothesis is correct or not. I agree.. Very good mails from you Chandrakeshar... good indeed.. Thanks BEst wishes Zoran Hope this helps, Chandrashekhar. vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep ] Friday, August 29, 2003 9:50 PM vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects// Dear chandrashekar ji Could you kindly quote the shloka related to guru.This is just out of curiosity. Then from your mails i have understood that,you are very particular about the 'Bhrashta' while speaking about jupiter. I believe apart from understanding the inherent meaning, you might be having some experience related to the Guru and Bhrashta,perhaps with people whom you know well. If you could quote some real life experiences it would become more useful. Because if we consider a person having jupiter in 2nd house - The person should have problem related to money savings,speech,family,and other aspects reprsntd by 2nd house.How is this possible for all the aspects? I am totally with you regarding the strictness which guru might impose on the houses in which he is placed - at least regarding first house (because of own experience,also forming hamsa yoga). But again first house represents - physique,appearance,intellect,complexion,happiness etc.But could you explain how or why gurus prescence should result in damage of all these aspects. I dont want to conclude anything for me.I want to wait and understand what the sages have said. So from your experience and knowledge i am trying to gain some real understanding regarding this. Also Zoranjis mail was conveying the message - one should differentiate the nature of the planets from other factors. But i understood from your mails that the very nature of guru is resulting in 'Bhrashta'.So how do we relate this. regds & thanks Pradeep vedic astrology, Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa@N...> wrote: > Om Namo Narayanaya, > Dear Chandrakeshar, > I see.. I was relying upon a subject.. This hypotesyse given as the > subject " Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn > protects" is highly dubious and should not be followed... > Best wishes > Zoran > > Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote: > > > Dear Zoran, > > > > You are perhaps misinterpreting the Sanskrita word Guru with the word > > Guru as planet used in the original post.I was just trying to clear > > the misunderstanding when Guru as in planet was being taken as Gur as > > in the master by explaining the principles from both the hypothesis. > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > Zoran Radosavljevic [ahimsa@N...] > > Thursday, August 28, 2003 7:50 AM > > vedic astrology > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of > > destroying the house it and Saturn Protects// > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya, > > Dear Chandrakeshar and members, > > Sorry for butting in so abrubtly without the following of the > > previous mails... It has been experience among my students and > > those who learn Jyotish > > that some basic confusion is very strong. One should never mix > > the natural tendency of a Graha and functional role of the Graha.. > > Natural benefics as Guru who is the Bhagwan of the chart will > > NEVER harm any point but on the contrary will IMPROVE all points > > he touches > > in the chart by means of his NATURE. However, each graha has a > > role and different states. For instance, such guru may rule 8th > > house which is > > Randra or the vulnarable place, the worst house. It is akin to a > > good person having a negative role. E.G> suppose, a good neigbhour > > has to tell you that > > someone who is dear has passed away... it will never change his > > nature, he will still remain a good neigbour.. Furthermore, graha > > may give bad results even if benefic if placed in bad avastas. > > However, it doesnot again change its nature.. The malefic results > > are given due to graha bad mood. Thus, if guru gives bad results, it > > may give only on the bases of its rulership of bad houses, or > > being placed in bad avastas. It can never change his natural > > benefic tendency.. > > Hope this may help > > Best wishes > > Zoran > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote: > > > >> Dear Pradeep, > >> > >> The analogy of student/king is misunderstood. It was an aside to > >> the main topic and just to understand the idea of why the > >> student's hous e would feel unconfortable by presence of Guru. > >> > >> It is well to understand that the results that Jupiter will give > >> in each case would vary depending on his house lordship and house > >> of placement. However the streak of damage(Bhrashta) to the house > >> would remain, though modified.If he house is bad the results > >> could actually be good as the bad efects get lessened. > >> > >> Chandrashekhar. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> vijayadas_pradeep [ vijayadas_pradeep ] > >> Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:39 AM > >> vedic astrology > >> [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of > >> destroying the house it and Saturn Protects// > >> > >> Dear Chandrashekar ji > >> > >> This suggestion is really good. > >> I too feel one should learn astrology from the original textual > >> language or its derivatives, after reading your mail. > >> > >> But now after seeing your mail for amol ji,i am still having > >> some > >> doubts. > >> > >> As you have said, even though your example-regarding > >> student,guru > >> and all cannot be generalised - I am taking that example to > >> clear my > >> doubts. > >> > >> Here i believe the nature of the students and guru has to be > >> considered - Similarly the king and minister. > >> > >> If both are of the same nature - then no one has to > >> suffer,'Bhrashta'. > >> 1)Similarly if jupiter is placed in a friendly house or > >> deeptha or > >> swakshethra - harmony is not troubled ,under normal > >> circumstances. > >> > >> 2)But as the lagna or the individual is subject to various > >> influences within the chart - there can be disharmony. > >> > >> Hence do you consider my point(1) as haaving some relevance? > >> or shld we always give importance only to point (2). > >> > >> Please pardon me from asking questions like this as i am no > >> person > >> to debate with you - either by knowledge or age. > >> > >> Thanks again > >> Pradeep > >> > >> > >> > >> vedic- astrology , "Chandrashekhar Sharma" > >> <boxdel> wrote: > >> > Dear Pradeep, > >> > The confusion arises because of the fact that some > >> Sanskrita words > >> loose > >> > their import when translated to English. The shloka does > >> not say > >> Damage or > >> > Harm. It says"Bhrashta". The word has different conotations > >> depending on the > >> > context. Like Sthanabhrashta would be something like > >> loosing one's > >> place > >> > whereas Sheelabhrashta would mean one whose moral are > >> loose. The > >> same when > >> > said to be done by other would mean harming or damaging > >> other's > >> modesty. > >> > Limitations of the language does sometimes pose a problem in > >> conveyance of > >> > the corect meaning of sanskrita words. This is why I have said > >> many a times > >> > that Astrology is better understood if one learns it in > >> Sanskrit > >> or Sanskrit > >> > based Indian languages. > >> > Hope this helps, > >> > Chandrashekhar. > >> > > >> > vijayadas_pradeep [ vijayadas_pradeep@y ...] > >> > Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:38 PM > >> > vedic astrology > >> > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of > >> destroying the > >> > house it and Saturn Protects// > >> > > >> > > >> > Dear Chandrashekar ji > >> > > >> > I now understand why Jupiter placement can result in > >> difficult > >> > outcomes. > >> > > >> > Do you mean to say if jupiter is placed in puthrasthana > >> ,then the > >> > individuals can be intelligent but their children will > >> suffer.This is > >> > just to make sure, if i have understood your example. > >> > > >> > But i have one slight difference in opinion regarding the > >> statement - > >> > 'Jupiter destroys or harms'. > >> > > >> > This statement makes us puzzled about the meaning > >> vis-a-vis the > >> > nature of Jupiter. > >> > > >> > Because when we say it destroys - it means jupiter's > >> action was > >> > intented towards destruction.But that is not the > >> case.Jupiter > >> tends > >> > to stick to principles even during adverse situations.This > >> behaviour > >> > makes him unable to protect.But his intention was never to > >> destroy > >> > nor the behaviour deserves destruction. > >> > > >> > But if you take another example > >> > When Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved > >> destruction. > >> > > >> > Though both the behaviours resulted(ends) in the > >> destruction of > >> > the 'houses',the means are not the same. > >> > > >> > Hence i believe if we say Jupiter is unable to protect > >> the house > >> in > >> > which it is placed,during all circumstances, it becomes less > >> ambigue - > >> > vis-a-vis its nature,because destruction was never intended. > >> > > >> > Though the end result is same i feel there is a > >> difference in the > >> > inherent meaning. > >> > > >> > Kindly correct me if i am wrong. > >> > > >> > Also should one learn something from this lesson - to > >> live in > >> Kali > >> > Yuga! > >> > > >> > Thanks and respect > >> > Pradeep > >> > > >> > vedic- astrology , "Chandrashekhar > >> Sharma" > >> > <boxdel> wrote: > >> > > Dear Pradeep, > >> > > Certain principles are given by the sages and are found > >> to be > >> true > >> > in their > >> > > application. Having said that, have you observed that the > >> children > >> > living > >> > > with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? This is > >> what > >> happens > >> > with > >> > > Jupiter placement in a house. You will also not ,if one > >> wants > >> to go > >> > to > >> > > Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the Daanaavas > >> more > >> often > >> > than > >> > > other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. Devas > >> invariably > >> > got > >> > > defeated and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, Vishnu, > >> Durga etc. > >> > Saturn > >> > > usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi Rahu > >> was their > >> > Senapati. > >> > > About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do with his > >> ability to > >> > protect. > >> > > He protects one from bad indications of that house. > >> These are > >> my > >> > personal > >> > > opinions and other worthies might have different opinions. > >> > > Chandrashekhar. > >> > > > >> > > ---- > >> > > > >> > > vedic astrology > >> > > Monday, August 25, 2003 08:17:02 PM > >> > > vedic astrology > >> > > [vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter capable of > >> destroying > >> > the house > >> > > it and Saturn Protects// > >> > > > >> > > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members. > >> > > > >> > > I have seen from the archives ,where you had > >> participated in > >> > > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy > >> the bhava > >> in > >> > > which > >> > > it is placed and Saturn Protects. > >> > > > >> > > Here I have some queries. > >> > > > >> > > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter > >> to try > >> and > >> > > harm > >> > > or destroy. > >> > > > >> > > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses > >> (6,8,12 > >> > etc) - > >> > > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad > >> > > (negative,negative results in positive) should bring > >> good. But > >> if > >> > > saturn > >> > > can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the > >> above > >> > > statement > >> > > loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding > >> of this > >> > > 'negative-negative' is wrong. > >> > > > >> > > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel > >> it can > >> test > >> > > the > >> > > individual always on the path of life,which can be > >> painfull and > >> > hard > >> > > as > >> > > well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an > >> individual > >> can > >> > > combat > >> > > the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of > >> patience > >> and > >> > > other > >> > > mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right? > >> > > > >> > > But why is it trying to destroy? > >> > > > >> > > Also doesn't other considerations like > >> strength,position etc > >> come > >> > > into > >> > > play while deciding on this? > >> > > > >> > > If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by > >> virtue of > >> > > which > >> > > it > >> > > is trying to behave like this, it would be helpful. > >> > > > >> > > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good > >> and bad) > >> > about > >> > > jupiter placed in ascendant. > >> > > > >> > > Thanks a lot > >> > > Pradeep > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Sponsor > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Archives: vedic- astrology > >> > > > >> > > Group info: vedic- > >> astrology/info.html > >> > > > >> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > >> > > >> > > > >> > > ........ May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > >> > > > >> > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > >> > > > >> > > Your use of is subject to the > >> Terms of > >> Service. > >> > > >> > > >> > Sponsor > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Archives: vedic- astrology > >> > > >> > Group info: vedic- > >> astrology/info.html > >> > > >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > >> > >> > > >> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ........ > >> > > >> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > >> > > >> > Your use of is subject to the Terms of > >> Service. > >> > > >> > --- > >> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > >> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system ( http://www.grisoft.com). > >> <http://www.grisoft.com%29. > > >> > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03 > >> > >> > >> > >> Archives: vedic astrology > >> > >> Group info: > >> vedic astrology/info.html > >> > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > >> vedic astrology- > >> > >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > >> > >> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > >> > >> Terms of > >> Service < > . > >> > >> > >> > >> Archives: vedic astrology > >> > >> Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > >> > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > >> vedic astrology- > >> > >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > >> > >> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > >> > >> Terms of > >> Service < > . > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > [click here] > > < http://rd./M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1 705082686:HM/A=1693352/R=0/SIG=11tralmvc/* http://www.netflix.com/Defa ult?mqso=60178293&partid=3170658> > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > Terms of Service > > < > . Archives: vedic astrology Group info: vedic astrology/info.html Terms of Service .. Archives: vedic astrology Group info: vedic astrology/info.html Terms of Service .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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