Guest guest Report post Posted September 7, 2002 >"Visti Larsen" >vedic astrology > >Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology and Islam - To Visti >Sat, 7 Sep 2002 14:09:09 +0200 > >Vyam Vysaadevaaya Namah > >-- > >Dear Kautilya, >There more to this, check bellow.. i always refer to the 4th type when we talk about moksha/mukti > >There are 4 types of Mukti: > 1.. Saalokya Mukti : When a devotee worships a particular god, he will ultimately obtain a place in the heavenly abode of that particular god. This is called as 'Saalokya Mukti'. The method of worship followed here is called as 'Charya'. It is a method in which the seeker considers himself a slave and the god as the Supreme Lord. > > > 2.. Saaroopya Mukti : A devotee practising even more intense devotion will not only obtain a place in the heavenly abode, but will also acquire the qualities of the god he worships. The method of worship followed here is called as 'Kriya'. Kriya here means performing Pooja, Homa and other rituals. > > > 3.. Saameepya Mukti: If the worship is even more intense, the seeker will not only acquire the qualities of the god he worships, but will also gain a godly form and a place very near to God. This method is called 'Yoga'. Here Yoga means the eight steps of Ashtanga Yoga. > > Dear Visti, Please ellaborate more on these.How do we go through these stages in our different lives.Are there any stages as such.I would like you to tell us some more about this. Love and Regards, Kanupriya.Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 7, 2002 Vyam Vysaadevaaya Namah Dear Kanupriya, This is not my own definition of Moksha. The stages come with various realisations about god. In the first stage the person merely worships through Japa, and doesn't dwelve deeper into the self. In the second stage the person has intensified the worship through elaborate rituals to gain the Istha Devatas mercy, and hence qualities of this worship are then bestowed on the person. In the 3rd stage, the tapaswi qualities of the practitioner drive them to attain abilities akin to that of the lord, through the 8 steps of Yoga, yet still as in the first 2 steps, the person doesn't realise the truth of the Atma, and this causes differenciation. Above 3 muktis are partly dominated by the mode of passion and discrimination. The 4th stage transcends all these, and is the complete realisation of the obvious truth.. from where i have come is where i must go.. i was born from Brahma. Brahma created me from the source(naraayana) hence i must be non different from that source. That source is God. I am non-different from God. sat-chit-anand. Best wishes, Visti. - kanu priya vedic astrology Saturday, September 07, 2002 3:19 PM Re: [vedic astrology] Re: - To Visti >"Visti Larsen" >vedic astrology > >Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology and Islam - To Visti >Sat, 7 Sep 2002 14:09:09 +0200 > >Vyam Vysaadevaaya Namah > >-- > >Dear Kautilya, >There more to this, check bellow.. i always refer to the 4th type when we talk about moksha/mukti > >There are 4 types of Mukti: > 1.. Saalokya Mukti : When a devotee worships a particular god, he will ultimately obtain a place in the heavenly abode of that particular god. This is called as 'Saalokya Mukti'. The method of worship followed here is called as 'Charya'. It is a method in which the seeker considers himself a slave and the god as the Supreme Lord. > > > 2.. Saaroopya Mukti : A devotee practising even more intense devotion will not only obtain a place in the heavenly abode, but will also acquire the qualities of the god he worships. The method of worship followed here is called as 'Kriya'. Kriya here means performing Pooja, Homa and other rituals. > > > 3.. Saameepya Mukti: If the worship is even more intense, the seeker will not only acquire the qualities of the god he worships, but will also gain a godly form and a place very near to God. This method is called 'Yoga'. Here Yoga means the eight steps of Ashtanga Yoga. > > Dear Visti, Please ellaborate more on these.How do we go through these stages in our different lives.Are there any stages as such.I would like you to tell us some more about this. Love and Regards, Kanupriya. Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click HereArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 7, 2002 Dear Visti, I would appreciate if you can quote verses to substantiate your claims. > > The 4th stage transcends all these, and is the > complete realisation of the obvious truth.. from > where i have come is where i must go.. i was born > from Brahma. Brahma created me from the > source(naraayana) hence i must be non different from > that source. That source is God. I am non-different > from God. sat-chit-anand. The souls, you and me , are eternal and uncreated in time.We are never created from Brahman (Narayana) nor will we become Brahman(Though you say you will merge into Narayana, in other words you are saying you will become Narayana). Have you ever asked a question - Why were you created >From Narayana and made to take birth on Bhumi and go through this suffering ?If you were created from Narayana and Narayana being all perfect and omni potent, every bit of Narayana is as powerful as the whole of Narayana.And, as you say, every jiva is created from Narayana, we should all be same and equally powerful.In a sense, we are all Narayana, without any difference (which is what the advaita is saying...). And this begs one more question :If every Jiva is created from Narayana who is the all perfect, why did the Jivas start commiting the sins ? Regards, Kautilya > > Best wishes, Visti. > - > kanu priya > vedic astrology > Saturday, September 07, 2002 3:19 PM > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: - To Visti > > > > > > > >"Visti Larsen" > >vedic astrology > >To: > >Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology and > Islam - To Visti > >Sat, 7 Sep 2002 14:09:09 +0200 > > > >Vyam Vysaadevaaya Namah > > > > >-\ - > > > > >Dear Kautilya, > >There more to this, check bellow.. i always refer > to the 4th type when we talk about moksha/mukti > > > >There are 4 types of Mukti: > > 1.. Saalokya Mukti : When a devotee worships a > particular god, he will ultimately obtain a place in > the heavenly abode of that particular god. This is > called as 'Saalokya Mukti'. The method of worship > followed here is called as 'Charya'. It is a method > in which the seeker considers himself a slave and > the god as the Supreme Lord. > > > > > > 2.. Saaroopya Mukti : A devotee practising even > more intense devotion will not only obtain a place > in the heavenly abode, but will also acquire the > qualities of the god he worships. The method of > worship followed here is called as 'Kriya'. Kriya > here means performing Pooja, Homa and other rituals. > > > > > > > 3.. Saameepya Mukti: If the worship is even more > intense, the seeker will not only acquire the > qualities of the god he worships, but will also gain > a godly form and a place very near to God. This > method is called 'Yoga'. Here Yoga means the eight > steps of Ashtanga Yoga. > > > > > Dear Visti, > > Please ellaborate more on these.How > do we go through these stages in our different > lives.Are there any stages as such.I would like you > to tell us some more about this. > > Love and Regards, > > Kanupriya. > > > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: > Click Here > > Sponsor > > > > > > Archives: > vedic astrology > > Group info: > vedic astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri > Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > Terms of Service. > > Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 7, 2002 Vyam Vysaadevaaya Namah Dear Kautilya, I would appreciate if you can quote verses tosubstantiate your claims. Visti: Most of my knowledge comes from Gurus and reading Puranas and Upanishads. Since the Bhagavad Purana is considered so highly, i will give it as a source: Canto 1, Chapter 3.. Slokas 1-5. The Upanishads also talk alot about this. You know, the most of our discussion is very akin to that given at the link i gave before. Give it a go. Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org Swami Sivananda talks about the same here: http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/moksh/moksh_10.html Have you read the begining chapter of Brihat Parasara Hora Shastra? Chapter 1 - Sloka 21-24. > The 4th stage transcends all these, and is the> complete realisation of the obvious truth.. from> where i have come is where i must go.. i was born> from Brahma. Brahma created me from the> source(naraayana) hence i must be non different from> that source. That source is God. I am non-different> from God. sat-chit-anand.The souls, you and me , are eternal and uncreated intime.We are never created from Brahman (Narayana) norwill we become Brahman(Though you say you will mergeinto Narayana, in other words you are saying you willbecome Narayana).Have you ever asked a question - Why were you createdFrom Narayana and made to take birth on Bhumi and gothrough this suffering ?If you were created fromNarayana and Narayana being all perfect and omnipotent, every bit of Narayana is as powerful as thewhole of Narayana.And, as you say, every jiva iscreated from Narayana, we should all be same andequally powerful.In a sense, we are all Narayana,without any difference (which is what the advaita issaying...). Visti: Yes i ask this question everyday, as do many of the other people who come for astrological help.. In this life, my Atmakaraka is Rahu...I will never claim to know Brahman. If i'm wrong about God then its only expected. And this begs one more question :If every Jiva iscreated from Narayana who is the all perfect, why didthe Jivas start commiting the sins ? Visti: This is described in the Bhagavad Purana as well.. begining chapters. Its when the beings began considering themselves different from the whole.. i.e. they became egoistic and attracted to sense-pleasure. This usually causes the fall of the atma.. attraction to sense-pleasure that is.. I hope this helps, please get back to me with your thoughts and critics. Best wishes, Visti. p.s. I have found something you must give. But you must agree invariably that you will give it.. Believe me i won't take advantage of you. Regards,Kautilya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 7, 2002 Dear Visti, > Visti: Most of my knowledge comes from Gurus and > reading Puranas and Upanishads. Since the Bhagavad > Purana is considered so highly, i will give it as a > source: Canto 1, Chapter 3.. Slokas 1-5. The > Upanishads also talk alot about this. You know, the > most of our discussion is very akin to that given at > the link i gave before. Give it a go. > Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org > Swami Sivananda talks about the same here: > http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/moksh/moksh_10.html > Have you read the begining chapter of Brihat > Parasara Hora Shastra? Chapter 1 - Sloka 21-24. First of all, the quotes of Srimad Bhagavatham,for which you have given the link, is not in Sanskrit.I cannot voouch for the correctness of the translation.For the sake of arguement, let me consider those slokas. If you are referring to this particular line :"These multifarious incarnations are the indestructible source from which all the godly, human and animal beings originate.", to claim that all souls are created from Vishnu and will merge again, you are grossly wrong.What the above shlokas refer, is that during the time of creation, all jivas which were residing inside the body of Lord Vishnu when there was no Universe (brahmanda), emerged from his body to take birth on the universe that the lord has just created.Again during the time of maha pralaya (complete destruction), all jivas enter the body of Vishnu to reside till the next creation happens, and this cycle will go on.....What is important in this explanation is that the jivas at no time will lose its identity... > Visti: Yes i ask this question everyday, as do > many of the other people who come for astrological > help.. In this life, my Atmakaraka is Rahu...I will > never claim to know Brahman. If i'm wrong about God > then its only expected. This did not answer what i was telling.let me address this below.. > Visti: This is described in the Bhagavad Purana > as well.. begining chapters. Its when the beings > began considering themselves different from the > whole.. i.e. they became egoistic and attracted to > sense-pleasure. This usually causes the fall of the > atma.. attraction to sense-pleasure that is.. If all jivas are created from Lord Vishnu who is perfect, then all jivas are Lord Vishnu.If Vishnu as a whole is omnipotent,omniscient then all his parts must be same.Then how come we ended up with this situation where the jivas have committed sins and suffer in the cycle of birth and death ? > I hope this helps, please get back to me with your > thoughts and critics. > Best wishes, Visti. > p.s. I have found something you must give. But you > must agree invariably that you will give it.. > Believe me i won't take advantage of you. As long as what you ask is devoted to the worship of Lord Vishnu through Vayu Jivottama(Madhva), the propounder of the principles and doctrine of Tattvavada, and if it is within my means, i will.... > Regards, > Kautilya > > Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 8, 2002 hi vishnu i just want to say that it is not posiible to under satnd the ultimate truth without bhakti/jnana. logic has its own limitations.above logic is the wisdom ,then ego. one needs to rise above al to realise him. prashant --- Vishnu Gupta <gurukautilya wrote: > Dear Visti, > I would appreciate if you can quote verses to > substantiate your claims. > > > > > The 4th stage transcends all these, and is the > > complete realisation of the obvious truth.. from > > where i have come is where i must go.. i was born > > from Brahma. Brahma created me from the > > source(naraayana) hence i must be non different > from > > that source. That source is God. I am > non-different > > from God. sat-chit-anand. > > The souls, you and me , are eternal and uncreated in > time.We are never created from Brahman (Narayana) > nor > will we become Brahman(Though you say you will merge > into Narayana, in other words you are saying you > will > become Narayana). > > Have you ever asked a question - Why were you > created > From Narayana and made to take birth on Bhumi and go > through this suffering ?If you were created from > Narayana and Narayana being all perfect and omni > potent, every bit of Narayana is as powerful as the > whole of Narayana.And, as you say, every jiva is > created from Narayana, we should all be same and > equally powerful.In a sense, we are all Narayana, > without any difference (which is what the advaita is > saying...). > > And this begs one more question :If every Jiva is > created from Narayana who is the all perfect, why > did > the Jivas start commiting the sins ? > > Regards, > Kautilya > > > > > Best wishes, Visti. > > - > > kanu priya > > vedic astrology > > Saturday, September 07, 2002 3:19 PM > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: - To Visti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Visti Larsen" > > >vedic astrology > > >To: > > >Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology > and > > Islam - To Visti > > >Sat, 7 Sep 2002 14:09:09 +0200 > > > > > >Vyam Vysaadevaaya Namah > > > > > > > > >-\ - > > > > > > > >Dear Kautilya, > > >There more to this, check bellow.. i always > refer > > to the 4th type when we talk about moksha/mukti > > > > > >There are 4 types of Mukti: > > > 1.. Saalokya Mukti : When a devotee worships a > > particular god, he will ultimately obtain a place > in > > the heavenly abode of that particular god. This is > > called as 'Saalokya Mukti'. The method of worship > > followed here is called as 'Charya'. It is a > method > > in which the seeker considers himself a slave and > > the god as the Supreme Lord. > > > > > > > > > 2.. Saaroopya Mukti : A devotee practising > even > > more intense devotion will not only obtain a place > > in the heavenly abode, but will also acquire the > > qualities of the god he worships. The method of > > worship followed here is called as 'Kriya'. Kriya > > here means performing Pooja, Homa and other > rituals. > > > > > > > > > > > 3.. Saameepya Mukti: If the worship is even > more > > intense, the seeker will not only acquire the > > qualities of the god he worships, but will also > gain > > a godly form and a place very near to God. This > > method is called 'Yoga'. Here Yoga means the eight > > steps of Ashtanga Yoga. > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > Please ellaborate more on > these.How > > do we go through these stages in our different > > lives.Are there any stages as such.I would like > you > > to tell us some more about this. > > > > Love and Regards, > > > > Kanupriya. > > > > > > > > > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: > > Click Here > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: > > vedic astrology > > > > Group info: > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri > > Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > http://finance. > Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
