Guest guest Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 I may be wrongly remembering this, but the association of 5th house with love and entertainment (as two separate entities, lest there be further confusion!!) -- I believe stems from western astrological literature. In fact that is true for the association between 3rd house and communication and 3rd house and intelligence which has been adopted by many jyotishis. MIND YOU, I am not commenting on whether these are correct or inaccurate associations, but just the lineage as far as I remember. Some of such a spill could also be seen in the association of 10th house and father and 6th being hidden enemies and 7th as revealed enemies (competitors) and there must be many more similar bridge-over concepts. RR , "kartheek_v2000" <kartheek_v2000> wrote: > Dear Tanvir > > You are right. But come to think of it, why fifth was assigned as the > love house, when actually it is house of natural abilities. 5th house > is gains from the 7th house of relationships, and many say children > are product of love. I have actually seen people falling in love in > the the antardasa of 3rd,7th, 11th houses, more than anything else. > And thse planets are connected to fifth house either by aspect or > conjunction. But not necessary always. So you are right. > best wishes > partha > > > , "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...> > wrote: > > Dear Ashutosh Ji - > > > > I see many speak about 5th house being related to love affairs, but > I have not come along a chart that practically shows this through > dasa bhukti or something. Of course I have not did a research stuff > on this to be sure / confirm, but I think if it would be true, I > could have noted this. > > > > Western astrology speaks about this more. To me 5th is the house of > mental inclination, things a person takes interest in (and also has > skills in etc.) but is it about love affairs? Not sure. > > > > Do you personally believe / found out through practice/experience > that it stands for love affairs? I am not challenging you, but I am > curious to know whether you found it through experience, for I find > your views experience-oriented and I like most of them. > > > > Regards > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > remedies > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > - > > astrologerashutosh > > > > Monday, September 26, 2005 9:40 AM > > Re: Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for > Rohini and all) > > > > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > The eleventh house is directly opposite to fifth > house, the house of love-affairs. Any planet in 11th will aspect > fifth house. 11th is also for friends and aquaintances besides money. > > > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Dear Tanvir ji, I thank you very much for your comments. Our friend astrologer was giving wrong information to the audience. He discussed his friend's chart with virgo lagna and mercury in gemini in 10th house with rahu and sun. His argument was that his friend is in hospital because the lagna lord mercury is combust. My argument was that in this case combustion is not the reason. The reason why his friend was in hospital is that his lagna lord mercury is with 12th house lord sun and rahu. Also mercury does not receive any support from other functional benefics in his chart. If our friend's argument on combustion is correct then 90% people with virgo and gemini ascendant should be lying in the hospital with diseases as mercury is always close to sun most of the time by transit. I just wanted to correct him. Then he attacked me personally by saying I am arrogant because my planets are with ketu. Anyway now this is all over. I will be careful in future, and will continue to share my knowledge with audience on this group. Best Regards G. Singh , "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...> wrote: > Dear Gurumeet Ji - > > Stars are very important in astrology. I personally use them a lot and do not see the chart without judging them. Most of my quizzes (real life puzzles) I offered here and in other lists had their right answers based on the stars and 60-70% of many chart-events cannot ever be explained or related to astrology without taking stars into account. Many of my life's important events cannot be exaplined without stars as well. I here agree with you completely. > > I realized about stars from my own studies of real charts and thought I "discovered" something but later I saw that they already exist in astrology but very little practiced by people. > > But after that I realized that there are still a lot of works to be done on the topic to refine it. Not all the times a planet in a 6th lord's star will activate the 6th lord. You will find both the examples. There is this WHY. Also, there are some additional concepts I have came up with based on these star concepts. I shared them in some of my earlier write ups, I do not do anymore now. This needs a lot of further works. > > Even KP is not totally correct in the way it uses stars. It needs refinement also. I say this most humbly but I am strict in my position. > > What I like in you that you explore things by yourself and know what works and what does not. You also speak out what you think to be the truth. However, as you already know by yourself, there is a bold tone in your mails and conversations that quickly switches the focus from Jyotish to a bit of personal stuff, and many members would not like this at all, which is very natural. There is no all-recognized rule, or principle or concept in Jyotish and no specific syllabus either. So no one should, or rightfully can, claim what is to be practiced or what concept must be applied. If he does, it is only his personal judegement and cannot be imposed on anyone. > > In this forum we are here to exchange views of astrology. We can learn from each other and that is a delibarate process. We cannot, or should not impose any concept on anyone. That is possible if one requests for personal guidance, takes a course or something. But here we are to exchange views. None of us have admitted to follow anyone's advices or have taken anyone's discipleship to follow his or her teachings. We all are entitled to choose what we like. > > That is why you cannot accuse a person for his practicing approach. While the techniques you use are good, your very straight forward and teaching-like manner may be discourage others to interact with you. Apart from this, whatever teachniques and concepts you want to use are just fine. So I would really expect you to fashion your posts in a more respectful way and discussions in a friendly manner. > > Thanks > Tanvir > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies > Where relief and solutions are found > > - > hbk1hbk_2100 > > Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:32 PM > Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini and all) > > > You completely ignore nakshatras at all. Ketu is in good nakshatra > the ruler of 2nd and 9th lord mars exalted in 9th house. Also Ketu is > surrounded by three benefics. Ketu matures at the age of 47. This is > the opinion of many astrologers. You can read BV Raman's book How to > Judge a Horoscope Volume two, page number 368. He mentioned clearly > that ketu in 11th will give sudden wealth could be through lottery. > Chakrapani Ullal who has 45 years experience in astrology also > mentioned same thing. > > When I study natal chart I consider lagna. When I want to time events > and see transits I consider moon sign. > > I have studied charts of the murderers also. I found in their case > most of the time rahu and ketu are in 6th house or 12 house. Then > they will have other planets in rahu and ketu's nakshatras. That > makes them killer and criminal. > > You should learn nakshatras and apply them to make predictions. You > do not consider nakshatras at all. You try to scare people and then > start talking about remedies. Remedies can not take one from -100 to > +100. They do have some good effect but may be 10%. > > I improved my astrology skills a lot after I started using > nakshatras. Without nakshatras you are just shooting in the dark. > Sometimes you are on target many times you don't. If you are not and > your prediction went wrong then you can immediately change it to > vipreet raj yoga to protect your reputation as an astrologer. This is > what most astrologers do and make fool of ordinary people. Finally I > decided to master this science myself and became astrologer. > > Regards > > G. Singh > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Dear Tanvir, We take the time of birth to determine the exact degree of lagna by which other sub-dividional charts are prepared. If we give emphasis to nakshatras only, then there is no need for other divisional charts. I am not new to jyotish. It is my passion and I have made it my full time occupation to do justice to this science. I have thousands of horoscopes in my database. On regular basis, whenever any new theory comes up in jyotish, I check the practicality of such theories by applying them on the charts in my database. Unless and untill I have applied them on at least five hundred charts, I do not believe in such theories. We astrologers tend to study our own horoscopes first to test any new theory. If it is applicable to us, unconsciously the support develops. But, if the majority of horoscopes tested do not support the theory, it should be kept in backgroud, not discarded totally, and main emphasis should be given to the tried and tested ones. I keep nakshatras and astakvargas in the background. I like to go the hard way of studying all divisional charts than to choose the short-cut. Many astrologers have emphasised on nakshatras and astakvarga points and due to the time saving nature of these studies, other aspects of the chart like the planetary strengths, combustions, the planets' placements and yogas in other divisional charts, are ignored. Most astrologers even do not know the use of navamsa and dwadashamsa. I myself have studied astakvargas and nakshatras very deeply. I do not advocate over-dependence on them because very often the conclusions from their studies are faulty and contradictory to natal chart inferences. Whereas, if one has judged the strength of planets individually and in combinations with other planets, the accuracy of predictions is increased. I have received some deep shocks in my astrological studied and career, when my predictions went wrong, especially in cases of death and disease, because I was using nakshatras and astakvargas and ignored the weakness of planets in natal and divisional charts. I have learnt the bitter lessons of astrology in a very harsh way. I have never written any verbose books or texts. The essence of jyotish is lost as we try to make it more complex and try to impress the common man with rhetorics. For effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of planets, navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits. If only the above five are studied deeply, the predictions can be made very correctly. In only a few cases, deeper studies, like nakshatras and astakvargas, are required. But, if these do not support or clarify the natal chart conclusions, then they should not be depended on. One very wise astrologer had advised me never to study my own chart. I have seen many astrologers trying to deny the weaknesses in their charts and to interpret even their most debiliated planets as very strong ones. After all, astrologers are also humans. They are also governed by their own horoscopes. The debiliated planets themselves were governing their mindsets. So, the outcome is bound to be faulty. To conclude, I would say that every astrologer has his own way of studying horoscopes. Only the outcome and correct predictions matter. Regards, Ashutosh - Tanvir Tuesday, 27 September, 2005 22:51 Re: Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini and all) Dear Gurumeet Ji - Stars are very important in astrology. I personally use them a lot and do not see the chart without judging them. Most of my quizzes (real life puzzles) I offered here and in other lists had their right answers based on the stars and 60-70% of many chart-events cannot ever be explained or related to astrology without taking stars into account. Many of my life's important events cannot be exaplined without stars as well. I here agree with you completely. I realized about stars from my own studies of real charts and thought I "discovered" something but later I saw that they already exist in astrology but very little practiced by people. But after that I realized that there are still a lot of works to be done on the topic to refine it. Not all the times a planet in a 6th lord's star will activate the 6th lord. You will find both the examples. There is this WHY. Also, there are some additional concepts I have came up with based on these star concepts. I shared them in some of my earlier write ups, I do not do anymore now. This needs a lot of further works. Even KP is not totally correct in the way it uses stars. It needs refinement also. I say this most humbly but I am strict in my position. What I like in you that you explore things by yourself and know what works and what does not. You also speak out what you think to be the truth. However, as you already know by yourself, there is a bold tone in your mails and conversations that quickly switches the focus from Jyotish to a bit of personal stuff, and many members would not like this at all, which is very natural. There is no all-recognized rule, or principle or concept in Jyotish and no specific syllabus either. So no one should, or rightfully can, claim what is to be practiced or what concept must be applied. If he does, it is only his personal judegement and cannot be imposed on anyone. In this forum we are here to exchange views of astrology. We can learn from each other and that is a delibarate process. We cannot, or should not impose any concept on anyone. That is possible if one requests for personal guidance, takes a course or something. But here we are to exchange views. None of us have admitted to follow anyone's advices or have taken anyone's discipleship to follow his or her teachings. We all are entitled to choose what we like. That is why you cannot accuse a person for his practicing approach. While the techniques you use are good, your very straight forward and teaching-like manner may be discourage others to interact with you. Apart from this, whatever teachniques and concepts you want to use are just fine. So I would really expect you to fashion your posts in a more respectful way and discussions in a friendly manner. Thanks Tanvir What cannot happen, can never happen. Which is mine, is forever mine. http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies Where relief and solutions are found - hbk1hbk_2100 Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:32 PM Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini and all) You completely ignore nakshatras at all. Ketu is in good nakshatra the ruler of 2nd and 9th lord mars exalted in 9th house. Also Ketu is surrounded by three benefics. Ketu matures at the age of 47. This is the opinion of many astrologers. You can read BV Raman's book How to Judge a Horoscope Volume two, page number 368. He mentioned clearly that ketu in 11th will give sudden wealth could be through lottery. Chakrapani Ullal who has 45 years experience in astrology also mentioned same thing. When I study natal chart I consider lagna. When I want to time events and see transits I consider moon sign. I have studied charts of the murderers also. I found in their case most of the time rahu and ketu are in 6th house or 12 house. Then they will have other planets in rahu and ketu's nakshatras. That makes them killer and criminal. You should learn nakshatras and apply them to make predictions. You do not consider nakshatras at all. You try to scare people and then start talking about remedies. Remedies can not take one from -100 to +100. They do have some good effect but may be 10%. I improved my astrology skills a lot after I started using nakshatras. Without nakshatras you are just shooting in the dark. Sometimes you are on target many times you don't. If you are not and your prediction went wrong then you can immediately change it to vipreet raj yoga to protect your reputation as an astrologer. This is what most astrologers do and make fool of ordinary people. Finally I decided to master this science myself and became astrologer. Regards G. Singh SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. a.. Visit your group "" on the web. b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Dear Ashutoh You mention that: "For effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of Jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of planets, Navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits." The five techniques that you have listed, are they manipulated in that particular order of importance? Also, you have emphasised the Navamsa, which is undoubtedly an important chart, but what about the other divisional such as Dasamsa, Saptamsa etc? Is not understanding how to interpret such D charts correctly an even more substantial "short cut " to making specific interpretations? I have not seen anyone mention the use of degree/nakshtra placement in the divisional charts. Has anyone attempted an analyses taking this into account, and if so what has been the effect? G. Singh : thank you for livening up this list with some healthy debate on astrological principles - it is a shame that certain individuals have taken criticism of their limitations personally, rather than defending them an intellectual and practical manner. Regards Maniv , "astrologerashutosh" <astrologerashutosh> wrote: > Dear Tanvir, > > We take the time of birth to determine the exact degree of lagna by which other sub-dividional charts are prepared. If we give emphasis to nakshatras only, then there is no need for other divisional charts. > > I am not new to jyotish. It is my passion and I have made it my full time occupation to do justice to this science. I have thousands of horoscopes in my database. On regular basis, whenever any new theory comes up in jyotish, I check the practicality of such theories by applying them on the charts in my database. Unless and untill I have applied them on at least five hundred charts, I do not believe in such theories. > > We astrologers tend to study our own horoscopes first to test any new theory. If it is applicable to us, unconsciously the support develops. But, if the majority of horoscopes tested do not support the theory, it should be kept in backgroud, not discarded totally, and main emphasis should be given to the tried and tested ones. > > I keep nakshatras and astakvargas in the background. I like to go the hard way of studying all divisional charts than to choose the short-cut. > > Many astrologers have emphasised on nakshatras and astakvarga points and due to the time saving nature of these studies, other aspects of the chart like the planetary strengths, combustions, the planets' placements and yogas in other divisional charts, are ignored. Most astrologers even do not know the use of navamsa and dwadashamsa. > > I myself have studied astakvargas and nakshatras very deeply. I do not advocate over-dependence on them because very often the conclusions from their studies are faulty and contradictory to natal chart inferences. Whereas, if one has judged the strength of planets individually and in combinations with other planets, the accuracy of predictions is increased. > > I have received some deep shocks in my astrological studied and career, when my predictions went wrong, especially in cases of death and disease, because I was using nakshatras and astakvargas and ignored the weakness of planets in natal and divisional charts. I have learnt the bitter lessons of astrology in a very harsh way. I have never written any verbose books or texts. > > The essence of jyotish is lost as we try to make it more complex and try to impress the common man with rhetorics. For effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of planets, navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits. > > If only the above five are studied deeply, the predictions can be made very correctly. In only a few cases, deeper studies, like nakshatras and astakvargas, are required. But, if these do not support or clarify the natal chart conclusions, then they should not be depended on. > > One very wise astrologer had advised me never to study my own chart. I have seen many astrologers trying to deny the weaknesses in their charts and to interpret even their most debiliated planets as very strong ones. After all, astrologers are also humans. They are also governed by their own horoscopes. The debiliated planets themselves were governing their mindsets. So, the outcome is bound to be faulty. > > To conclude, I would say that every astrologer has his own way of studying horoscopes. Only the outcome and correct predictions matter. > > > Regards, > > Ashutosh > > - > Tanvir > > Tuesday, 27 September, 2005 22:51 > Re: Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini and all) > > > Dear Gurumeet Ji - > > Stars are very important in astrology. I personally use them a lot and do not see the chart without judging them. Most of my quizzes (real life puzzles) I offered here and in other lists had their right answers based on the stars and 60-70% of many chart- events cannot ever be explained or related to astrology without taking stars into account. Many of my life's important events cannot be exaplined without stars as well. I here agree with you completely. > > I realized about stars from my own studies of real charts and thought I "discovered" something but later I saw that they already exist in astrology but very little practiced by people. > > But after that I realized that there are still a lot of works to be done on the topic to refine it. Not all the times a planet in a 6th lord's star will activate the 6th lord. You will find both the examples. There is this WHY. Also, there are some additional concepts I have came up with based on these star concepts. I shared them in some of my earlier write ups, I do not do anymore now. This needs a lot of further works. > > Even KP is not totally correct in the way it uses stars. It needs refinement also. I say this most humbly but I am strict in my position. > > What I like in you that you explore things by yourself and know what works and what does not. You also speak out what you think to be the truth. However, as you already know by yourself, there is a bold tone in your mails and conversations that quickly switches the focus from Jyotish to a bit of personal stuff, and many members would not like this at all, which is very natural. There is no all- recognized rule, or principle or concept in Jyotish and no specific syllabus either. So no one should, or rightfully can, claim what is to be practiced or what concept must be applied. If he does, it is only his personal judegement and cannot be imposed on anyone. > > In this forum we are here to exchange views of astrology. We can learn from each other and that is a delibarate process. We cannot, or should not impose any concept on anyone. That is possible if one requests for personal guidance, takes a course or something. But here we are to exchange views. None of us have admitted to follow anyone's advices or have taken anyone's discipleship to follow his or her teachings. We all are entitled to choose what we like. > > That is why you cannot accuse a person for his practicing approach. While the techniques you use are good, your very straight forward and teaching-like manner may be discourage others to interact with you. Apart from this, whatever teachniques and concepts you want to use are just fine. So I would really expect you to fashion your posts in a more respectful way and discussions in a friendly manner. > > Thanks > Tanvir > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies > Where relief and solutions are found > > - > hbk1hbk_2100 > > Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:32 PM > Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini and all) > > > You completely ignore nakshatras at all. Ketu is in good nakshatra > the ruler of 2nd and 9th lord mars exalted in 9th house. Also Ketu is > surrounded by three benefics. Ketu matures at the age of 47. This is > the opinion of many astrologers. You can read BV Raman's book How to > Judge a Horoscope Volume two, page number 368. He mentioned clearly > that ketu in 11th will give sudden wealth could be through lottery. > Chakrapani Ullal who has 45 years experience in astrology also > mentioned same thing. > > When I study natal chart I consider lagna. When I want to time events > and see transits I consider moon sign. > > I have studied charts of the murderers also. I found in their case > most of the time rahu and ketu are in 6th house or 12 house. Then > they will have other planets in rahu and ketu's nakshatras. That > makes them killer and criminal. > > You should learn nakshatras and apply them to make predictions. You > do not consider nakshatras at all. You try to scare people and then > start talking about remedies. Remedies can not take one from - 100 to > +100. They do have some good effect but may be 10%. > > I improved my astrology skills a lot after I started using > nakshatras. Without nakshatras you are just shooting in the dark. > Sometimes you are on target many times you don't. If you are not and > your prediction went wrong then you can immediately change it to > vipreet raj yoga to protect your reputation as an astrologer. This is > what most astrologers do and make fool of ordinary people. Finally I > decided to master this science myself and became astrologer. > > Regards > > G. Singh > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > - ----------- > > > a.. Visit your group "" on the web. > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. > > > - ----------- > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Dear Maniv, All are of equal importance and the order is - natal chart, planetary positions and their strengths in natal chart, then their positions in navamsa, then the dasha/antardashas/etc, then the transits. A lot has been written about other divisional charts and their interpretations but no conclusive rules are there. I personally study all the divisional charts including D81 (navamsa of navamsa) and D144(Dwadasamsa of dwadasamsa), but I cannot reveal my ways of study due to some professional compulsions. For a student of astrology who wants to start making predictions the above mentioned five steps are more than enough. They are least confusing and cover most of the queries of any common man (supermen, of course, are exceptions). You may call them a short cut, but they are very effective. I had once prepared a table using above five methods to teach a friend. That genleman started interpreting horoscopes using that table and now has gained quite a reputation as an astrologer. All he does is to keep the table by the side of the horoscope and interpret the chart according to the rules given in the table. There are ways to find a person's profession from navamsa without the use of even dashamsa. In fact, navamsa gives better indications about profession, marriage and success in life, than saptamsa, dashamsa and dwadashamsa. There can be no end to calculating charts and dashas if one goes on calculating. But, how many of us have a 'second-to-second' precise time of birth. Therefore, under the limitations that we have, these five mentioned steps are usually enough and helpful (not always but mostly). About nakshatras. In any one sign, a planet can transit over only three nakshatras. If mars is exalted in capricorn, it will be in nakshatras of sun, moon or mars. It will easily remain in one nakshatra for more than two days. All people born on a particular day could have mars in same nakshatra. So, where is the uniqueness? Nowadays, mars has stalled and stayed in sun's nakshatra since last 16 days. When it retrogrades it will again be in sun's nakshatra for some more days. But, people born on these days will have different charts and different placements of sun in navamsa and other charts. Lagna, navamsa and other divisional charts give us that uniqueness of horoscope which makes us different from others. The nakshatra of moon is used to calculate dashas because it is the fastest moving planet. Some astrologers study dasha by lagna for finer calculations. All these efforts are to find the uniqueness. Thats what makes Indian astrological systems score over other systems. You have mentioned the possibility of use of degree/ nakshatra placement in divisional charts. It is a nice idea but not very practical. Try it and see for yourself. The mistake is, that we do not study even the natal chart completely and then jump to other charts, nakshatras, astakvargas etc. If one studies even one of these properly, most of the answers can be had. It sounds nice when we say that we have studied sixteen charts, 27 nakshatras and dasha to the extent of prandasha of prandasha, but what is the outcome? Instead of beating about the bush, which, sadly, most of the astrologers have made a habit, correct focus is needed. Astrology is never wrong astrologers are. Regards, Ashutosh - maniv1321 Wednesday, 28 September, 2005 16:22 Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini and all) Dear Ashutoh You mention that: "For effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of Jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of planets, Navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits." The five techniques that you have listed, are they manipulated in that particular order of importance? Also, you have emphasised the Navamsa, which is undoubtedly an important chart, but what about the other divisional such as Dasamsa, Saptamsa etc? Is not understanding how to interpret such D charts correctly an even more substantial "short cut " to making specific interpretations? I have not seen anyone mention the use of degree/nakshtra placement in the divisional charts. Has anyone attempted an analyses taking this into account, and if so what has been the effect? G. Singh : thank you for livening up this list with some healthy debate on astrological principles - it is a shame that certain individuals have taken criticism of their limitations personally, rather than defending them an intellectual and practical manner. Regards Maniv , "astrologerashutosh" <astrologerashutosh> wrote: > Dear Tanvir, > > We take the time of birth to determine the exact degree of lagna by which other sub-dividional charts are prepared. If we give emphasis to nakshatras only, then there is no need for other divisional charts. > > I am not new to jyotish. It is my passion and I have made it my full time occupation to do justice to this science. I have thousands of horoscopes in my database. On regular basis, whenever any new theory comes up in jyotish, I check the practicality of such theories by applying them on the charts in my database. Unless and untill I have applied them on at least five hundred charts, I do not believe in such theories. > > We astrologers tend to study our own horoscopes first to test any new theory. If it is applicable to us, unconsciously the support develops. But, if the majority of horoscopes tested do not support the theory, it should be kept in backgroud, not discarded totally, and main emphasis should be given to the tried and tested ones. > > I keep nakshatras and astakvargas in the background. I like to go the hard way of studying all divisional charts than to choose the short-cut. > > Many astrologers have emphasised on nakshatras and astakvarga points and due to the time saving nature of these studies, other aspects of the chart like the planetary strengths, combustions, the planets' placements and yogas in other divisional charts, are ignored. Most astrologers even do not know the use of navamsa and dwadashamsa. > > I myself have studied astakvargas and nakshatras very deeply. I do not advocate over-dependence on them because very often the conclusions from their studies are faulty and contradictory to natal chart inferences. Whereas, if one has judged the strength of planets individually and in combinations with other planets, the accuracy of predictions is increased. > > I have received some deep shocks in my astrological studied and career, when my predictions went wrong, especially in cases of death and disease, because I was using nakshatras and astakvargas and ignored the weakness of planets in natal and divisional charts. I have learnt the bitter lessons of astrology in a very harsh way. I have never written any verbose books or texts. > > The essence of jyotish is lost as we try to make it more complex and try to impress the common man with rhetorics. For effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of planets, navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits. > > If only the above five are studied deeply, the predictions can be made very correctly. In only a few cases, deeper studies, like nakshatras and astakvargas, are required. But, if these do not support or clarify the natal chart conclusions, then they should not be depended on. > > One very wise astrologer had advised me never to study my own chart. I have seen many astrologers trying to deny the weaknesses in their charts and to interpret even their most debiliated planets as very strong ones. After all, astrologers are also humans. They are also governed by their own horoscopes. The debiliated planets themselves were governing their mindsets. So, the outcome is bound to be faulty. > > To conclude, I would say that every astrologer has his own way of studying horoscopes. Only the outcome and correct predictions matter. > > > Regards, > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > > > - > Tanvir > > Tuesday, 27 September, 2005 22:51 > Re: Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini and all) > > > Dear Gurumeet Ji - > > Stars are very important in astrology. I personally use them a lot and do not see the chart without judging them. Most of my quizzes (real life puzzles) I offered here and in other lists had their right answers based on the stars and 60-70% of many chart- events cannot ever be explained or related to astrology without taking stars into account. Many of my life's important events cannot be exaplined without stars as well. I here agree with you completely. > > I realized about stars from my own studies of real charts and thought I "discovered" something but later I saw that they already exist in astrology but very little practiced by people. > > But after that I realized that there are still a lot of works to be done on the topic to refine it. Not all the times a planet in a 6th lord's star will activate the 6th lord. You will find both the examples. There is this WHY. Also, there are some additional concepts I have came up with based on these star concepts. I shared them in some of my earlier write ups, I do not do anymore now. This needs a lot of further works. > > Even KP is not totally correct in the way it uses stars. It needs refinement also. I say this most humbly but I am strict in my position. > > What I like in you that you explore things by yourself and know what works and what does not. You also speak out what you think to be the truth. However, as you already know by yourself, there is a bold tone in your mails and conversations that quickly switches the focus from Jyotish to a bit of personal stuff, and many members would not like this at all, which is very natural. There is no all- recognized rule, or principle or concept in Jyotish and no specific syllabus either. So no one should, or rightfully can, claim what is to be practiced or what concept must be applied. If he does, it is only his personal judegement and cannot be imposed on anyone. > > In this forum we are here to exchange views of astrology. We can learn from each other and that is a delibarate process. We cannot, or should not impose any concept on anyone. That is possible if one requests for personal guidance, takes a course or something. But here we are to exchange views. None of us have admitted to follow anyone's advices or have taken anyone's discipleship to follow his or her teachings. We all are entitled to choose what we like. > > That is why you cannot accuse a person for his practicing approach. While the techniques you use are good, your very straight forward and teaching-like manner may be discourage others to interact with you. Apart from this, whatever teachniques and concepts you want to use are just fine. So I would really expect you to fashion your posts in a more respectful way and discussions in a friendly manner. > > Thanks > Tanvir > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies > Where relief and solutions are found > > - > hbk1hbk_2100 > > Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:32 PM > Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini and all) > > > You completely ignore nakshatras at all. Ketu is in good nakshatra > the ruler of 2nd and 9th lord mars exalted in 9th house. Also Ketu is > surrounded by three benefics. Ketu matures at the age of 47. This is > the opinion of many astrologers. You can read BV Raman's book How to > Judge a Horoscope Volume two, page number 368. He mentioned clearly > that ketu in 11th will give sudden wealth could be through lottery. > Chakrapani Ullal who has 45 years experience in astrology also > mentioned same thing. > > When I study natal chart I consider lagna. When I want to time events > and see transits I consider moon sign. > > I have studied charts of the murderers also. I found in their case > most of the time rahu and ketu are in 6th house or 12 house. Then > they will have other planets in rahu and ketu's nakshatras. That > makes them killer and criminal. > > You should learn nakshatras and apply them to make predictions. You > do not consider nakshatras at all. You try to scare people and then > start talking about remedies. Remedies can not take one from - 100 to > +100. They do have some good effect but may be 10%. > > I improved my astrology skills a lot after I started using > nakshatras. Without nakshatras you are just shooting in the dark. > Sometimes you are on target many times you don't. If you are not and > your prediction went wrong then you can immediately change it to > vipreet raj yoga to protect your reputation as an astrologer. This is > what most astrologers do and make fool of ordinary people. Finally I > decided to master this science myself and became astrologer. > > Regards > > G. Singh > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > - ----------- > > > a.. Visit your group "" on the web. > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. > > > - ----------- > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. a.. Visit your group "" on the web. b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Dear Nacy, I just saw a chart of aperson who was having almost 6planets in 8th in the Gemini sign and found him to be very dynamic and ambitious. The as i was scanning the mail I came across your mail referring toconsider: "specially complicated charts like mine and other charts"All valid reasons and logic for such an inclination undoubtedly comes from lagna itself.Somehow in my own way when I was atemptin I could find a chara lagna but odd sign and a fierry sign,chara chanadra lagn saturn in own nakshtra in IV bahva and indicating long standing health disorders.In navamsa saturn raising in watersign aspected by venus with a spouse looking for the angels but aspectd by saturn in D/9 may be addicted to one or other vices.dasa of 3rd and 6th of mercury(exaltation in D/1) and own sign in 8th in D/9 are also indications for future to be brave and enduring.Blessings of trnasit jupiter in any case will reliev you to some extent from pains and pleasure. These are based on my prashna lagna taken in response to your observations krishnan dervish108 <dervish108 wrote: Dear Ashutosh Many Thanks for your soft approach. From my studying I found D1 is the potential, if one wants to get the pearl one should dive deep. >From this angle I found divisional charts are very important as well as nakshatras, Arudha padas, upagrahas. One should consider specially complicated charts like mine and other charts from moon, sun, shri lagna and furthermore Gunas …………so on…… All in one it is not easy work. Ones more, thank you very much sharing your valuable knowledge with us. Best Regards Naci Gulsan , "astrologerashutosh" <astrologerashutosh> wrote: > Dear Naci, > > Very wise words and truly appreciable. You have all seven planets in 7th house. That means your thoughts and life revolves around people close to you. I am sure that you are highly perceptive and intuitive about other people. You can attain great heights in astrology. > > Why seven planets are not very beneficial? Because of the fact that some of them are combust. If Mr. G.Singh had only mars and saturn in capricorn in 11th house, he would have had more financial gains than what he is having now. Other planets rule different houses, some of which are malefic. They give their negative effects thus lowering the benefits of the beneficial ones. > > It is like drinking a mixture of cold water, milk, hot tea, hot coffee, beer, scotch, petrol and acid. What results will such a mixture have. > > Seven planets in one house sound and feel very good. The native has a very charming personality and is teeming with energy and ideas. But, mostly, such combinations destroy family life and take away the small but beautiful pleasures of life. > > What is the use of riches if one does not have a family to share them. A single spouse who is loving, caring and dedicated is better than a thousand lovers. > > In ninety percent of such cases, the native does not live beyond fifty years of age. > > Many people wear navgraha rings or perform navgraha pooja. That too is a useless activity. Not all of the nine planets can be beneficial or malefic for any one person. The result is always zero. > > > Regards, > > Ashutosh > > > - > dervish108 > > Monday, 26 September, 2005 18:42 > Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini and all) > > > > Dear G Singh > > > It is very easy for me to understand your frustration. I have 7 > planets in the 7th house. I have been going similar experiences. The > potential (of doing or achieving many things) is there due to > combustions we can't see the full outcome, that makes us angry. > When I found out that there was a great relieve. Due to > complication, there aren`t many astrologers with successful > predictions. I do not go to Jyotishies any more, I am trying to > learn it myself as it is indicated in my chart. That is the nature > of our carts. As long as we natives can see, the massage is very > clear, karmic indications are very strong. I don`t know what we have > done in the past, All I am doing is working hard to find out. > My humble suggest to you, you might aware of that, go to the sub > charts, amsha charts. There is more in there then D1. You should > concentrate on Karakamsha, rather then 11th house matters, you have > strong Spiritual growth, Ke is with your AK,. I think that is the > greatest advantage one should expect from one`s soul. > > All the best > > Naci Gulsan > > > > > > > > > > > , "hbk1hbk_2100" > <hbk1hbk_2100> wrote: > > To Rohini Ranjan ji and members, > > > > I have 7 planets in 11th house in my chart. I have been told by > many > > astrologers that these planets will give me sudden wealth. I > myself > > know astrology very well. > > > > I have 2nd house and 9th house lord Mars exalted in the 11th > house. > > Then I have Jupiter, Mercury, Ketu in 11th house in Dhanistha in > Mars > > nakshatra. So Jupiter mahadasha should give the results promised > by > > Mars in the 11th house. My guess is the sudden wealth could come > when > > I will be in JUP/MERCURY/MARS period or JUP/MARS/MERCURY period or > > JUP/JUP/MERCURY period or JUP/JUP/MARS period. > > > > I studied king abdullah of jordan's chart. He was born couple of > days > > before me. He has all 7 planets in second house and moon in 11th > > house. He is saggitarius ascendant. He has Jupiter Ketu Mercury in > > Dhanistha in 2nd house in Mars nakshatra. Mars ruler of 5th house > and > > 12th house is exalted in 2nd house. He became king in > > MERCURY/JUPITER/MARS period. In his case Mercury, Jupiter, and > Mars > > played important role in elevating him to a higher level. > > > > I think in my life also JUPITER, MERCURY and MARS will play > important > > role as both jupiter and mercury are in exalted mars nakshatra, > and > > mars rule 2nd house and 9th house, a yogkaraka planet for my > chart. I > > appreciate thoughts from Rohini Ranjan ji and other memebers. > > > > My birth data is given below: > > > > Feb 3rd, 1962 > > 10:03 AM > > Ludhiana, India > > > > Regards > > > > G. Singh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > <bursar_99> wrote: > > > dear John,Rohini and all, > > > > > > The kind of approachproposed in "upachaya houses contain > doshas?"is > > to make a distinction from good houses from houses having > doshas.May > > be house like 3rd which indicates kama bhava is to be considerd as > > dosha bahva?Infact Astrology balances the life and teaches what we > > have to promote and what we have to as humanbeings aspire than get > > attracted in the war of attritions and invlove in the vicous cycle > of > > births and deaths. > > > If we invest energies in dharma and kama the result will be that > we > > are trying to keep ourselves away from moksha.Attainment of Moksha > > will be in reach if we are able to shape well through the > > Dharama,ardha and kama,the ultimate result one awauts is > > moksha.Moksha then can never be a cause to feel as something lost > > > .In fact if we really care to probe these three houses (2nd,6th > > and 11th) are next to houses of Dharma viz lagna,pancham and > > navam.All these houses are development houses and so also artha > > houses giving a benifit to the human being.In these baiscs of > > Astrology contain a path for the promotion and welfare to shape > > ourselves into one of the ways like Gnana and vairagya.Then we > need > > to evoke 3rd house in the gnana approach(seeking to gain is > kama),one > > has to proceed to the next pahase i.e moksha.here one has time to > > to''review and get satisfied and contended instead of furthering > his > > artha and kama bhavas that leads again into the vicious cycles of > > janma and mrityu. > > > whether we term 3rd,7th and 11th too as in that perspective of > > worldly pleasues ,the life will be to think of some attachments > and > > for deriving benifits out of these 'links' and prosper in the > manner > > the dharma nature has dictated.The opportunity for decrimination > to > > adopt a path and to lead ways lies in dharha.These houses too may > be > > also free from doahas or may not be.it all depends on our poorva > > janma a continuity from past.So just naming as some thing of the > > whole as doshas may only to design a human as guilty > > conscious.probably all phases irrespective significance of various > > 12houses that tries to define and convey importance of > Astrology,the > > approach when adopted as to balance and moderate the life and > enable > > the humanbeing to decide what is most essential to life is moksha > but > > not artha and kama.if we are true in Dharma and is just meant for > > promoting the life to be free from all evils.we are serving to the > > cause of Astrology. > > > The teachings of Astrology are basically to make all human > beings > > aware of the potentialities and choose the patha through > > lagna,pancham and navam.Rest of the bhavs accordingly promote what > > the native intends. > > > The relative importance each bahva is to support the native > > accordingly and also provide an opportunity for self ealisation > and > > correct path. > > > The dosha theory is perhaps another approach proposed to the > same > > path of moksha and to hang with a guilty consciousness. and > > empphasise the need to overcome doshas > > > krishnan > > > > > > "Rohini (Crystal Pages)" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > Sounds good! And the spiritual view of these three being bad > makes > > > sense, the three being: efforts, competition, earning, each of > > which > > > represents a 'separation' from the spirit and the BIG SELF where > > > everything is united in the Universe, and the spiritual position > > too. > > > And the spiritual antidote would indeed be > > > vairagya/detachment/passivity [3], ahimsaa [6] and charity [11]. > > > > > > But how about the worldly perspective -- one from which most > > > astrology reading seekers come and they are not looking for > > astrology > > > to get them to the spiritual level or even to take that stance. > In > > > fact any and all astrology books, old and new are merely > mentioning > > > and doing lip service to spirituality in a chapter or half and > > > focusing more on how to find out the rich and famous, fertile > and > > so > > > on in the charts! > > > > > > Surely, astrology is for the householder and the remedies, some > of > > > them make sure that the priestly classes are well cared for and > > > benefit. The gemstone dealers and tantriks are a more recent > > addition > > > to the list of beneficiaries! > > > > > > Those who shall seek the spiritual path have never and will > never > > > need astrology to give them a poke in the eye! The poor wretched > > soul > > > who is fumbling around with his (mis)karma is the one who will > seek > > > astrology and is not quite ready yet to be elevated to the > > spiritual > > > level of piety that some of us take for granted! > > > > > > Let us get real and see what surrounds us! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "John" <jr_esq> > wrote: > > > > Namaste Rohini and all, > > > > > > > > According to an astrologer lecturing in a seminar I've > attended > > in > > > > California, the upachaya houses contain the Trika Doshas (or > > three > > > > errors). These are: > > > > > > > > 1. Deva Dosha-- representing the 3rd house, a house of > desires, > > > and > > > > sexual pleasures. > > > > > > > > 2. Rakshasa Dosha-- representing the 6th house, the house > > > signifying > > > > meanness and violence. > > > > > > > > 3. Manusha Dosha-- representing the 11th house, the house > > > signifying > > > > greed. > > > > > > > > Since these doshas are in the upachaya houses, humans have the > > > > capacity to improve on these negative predispositions through > > > > vairagya, ahimsa, and charity to address the doshas > respectively. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > John R. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Rohini (Crystal > Pages)" > > > > <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > > > > It is an upachaya house, hence about 'growth'. Some > individuals > > > > > consider growth as negative. Growth in the worldly plane > that > > is. > > > > > Income, earning, gains are growth in the worldly realm and > that > > > is > > > > > considered bad because it takes one away from *spiritual* > > growth > > > > > which we are supposed to be focussed on all the time. > > > > > > > > > > Examine and observe that most of scriptural astrology is > about > > > the > > > > > worldly realm, what a householder would care about, jobs, > > money, > > > > > power, children, relationships, and there is a bit of dharma > > > stuff > > > > > thrown into the mix with a few stanzas on ascetic yogas and > > > > spiritual > > > > > matters which recently have been spawned into remedies and > > ishta > > > > > devtaas and similar religious/spiritual aspects. > > > > > > > > > > Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, still holds true! > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish has been reinterpreted, quite healthily to some > extent > > I > > > > say, > > > > > recently and it has been actually used quite efficiently for > > > > worldly > > > > > reasons, which is what I see it was predominantly and > perhaps > > > > > primarily proposed to be used for. Though some have really > > worked > > > > > hard at spinning some religious, devotional, spiritual > mileage > > > out > > > > > of. Was it the original intention of God, the Sages etc.? > Being > > > > > rather tersely direct I ask this: Someone please explain the > > > > > rationale and utility (!) behind some of the shlokas (e.g., > 24- > > > 31) > > > > in > > > > > Chapter 83 of BPHS (Sharma, Sagar, vol.2, 1995/1997 > edition). I > > > > truly > > > > > hope and pray that jyotishis do not discuss that with their > > > female > > > > > clients! Now it is quite possible that the distorted version > > that > > > > we > > > > > currently possess of BPHS may not bear resemblance to the > > > > originally > > > > > pure scripture. Who really knows, and then how much of what > we > > > have > > > > > is reliable? Testing of all tenets is impossible but it is > wise > > > to > > > > > ignore the possibility? > > > > > > > > > > Several jyotishis have recently indicated that for worldly > > > things, > > > > > 11th is not malefic. VK Chowdhri (Systems Approach) has very > > > > > forcefully stated that some years ago and since then. > > > > > > > > > > I go back to my almost boringly repetitive beat <sorry here > I > > go > > > > > again!>. You have a question, if you ask, you are going to > get > > > > > umpteen responses and viewpoints, some if you are lucky - - > with > > > > > examples and illustrations. Best thing is to take the time > and > > > pick > > > > a > > > > > few charts (not a problem any longer now that databases of > good > > > > > quality are available like astrodatabank for instance) from > > > > different > > > > > groups, spiritual, worldly, rich, poor, middle -- and see > how > > the > > > > > 11th house manifested in their lives, during dashas, > transits, > > > > > overall. Most 'classical' yogas are not going to work out > > > verbatim > > > > in > > > > > many ordinary/regular charts anyway. > > > > > > > > > > You do not need to believe in what I say or write or someone > > else > > > > for > > > > > that matter. Do the experiment yourself and if it works > great! > > If > > > > it > > > > > does not work, you end up knowing better, anyway! And if > doubt > > > > > remains, welcome to the club -- maybe it will motivate to > move > > > > beyond > > > > > the black and white that some think astrology is, and you > may > > > even > > > > > begin to realize that just like the real life it describes, > > > > astrology > > > > > has many shades of grey, just like life and since it > describes > > > real > > > > > life, shouldn't that indeed be so? > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > > > > > <rishi_2000in> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mandakani, > > > > > > Thankyou for responding though I suspect my initial query > was > > a > > > > bit > > > > > > cryptic. > > > > > > Many astrologers suggest that the Lordship of Eleventh > House > > > > makes > > > > > > the Lord 'difficult' for the chart. > > > > > > However, everyone agrees that the placement of any planet, > > > > whether > > > > > > malefic or benefic is a good placement. > > > > > > Why is the Eleventh Lordship considered inauspicious > or 'bad'? > > > > > > While I agree with you that material gains and spiritual > > > > > aspirations > > > > > > more often than not come in conflict with each other.. > > > > > > yet is there something more to the 11th Lordship? > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > RELISH > > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu astrology Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for Good > > > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > Hindu astrology Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology > > > - ----------- > > > a.. Visit your group "" on the web. > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. > > > - ----------- > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Hindu astrology Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology Visit your group "" on the web. for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Dear Pankaj, In Astrology we have room for every thing and it looks the moon in chatushpada certainly has lots of fun.when lagna raise in a star related to raksha gana and daitya guru is afflicted where is the end of esoteric issues? krishnan pankaj sharma <astrologerpankaj wrote: daer tanvir ji May I interupt please, sorry. Many astrolgers say that 5th house is house of strong emotions, fun and entertainment. A mixture of fun, emotions and entertainment also is a pointer towards sexuality and flirting with opposite sex. How can we deny that sexual relations of man and woman lead to reproduction and ofcourse a issue of bilateral sexual satisfaction. Sex is also mental and physical need in addition to biological need( to perpetuate the race). So if we take view of mammalians( no doubt we are the most sophisticated mammalians in terms of sexualtiy), we see when ever they do sex, they do it only for multiplication. The god has gifted us with sexual pleasure in addition to it. So we need some sort of liking of our partners! Liking for other's company, love, flirting and sexual relations beyond wedlock may be the issues relating to emotions. So that way it may be related to 5th house, atleast to some extent. Love may be contended as the purest expression of feelings and strong emotions for others but strong emotions may also involve also raping other which nodoubt is done without the consent of the partner and is denounced by the society but it may a form of strong emotion and lust for other which can not be expression of pure love. It is done with selfishness and muscle power. I think it is enough indication for discussion on fifth house. I have tried to explain how the astrologers might have deduced that 5th house represents love affairs. The sane and prudent gurus shower light on the issue! Pankaj sharma vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: Dear Tanvir, when we talk of 5th as 7th to 11th,we need ofcourse give priority to intellect,poorva janma irrespective of parctical issues and the natives experiences.Love offairs and relations may be coming up from other divisional charts.certainly natal implication as the indicate in the basic charts and the palneatary relationships have lot of significance in the life of any native.if practically situations differ,it is 'coz of significance in divisional cahrts. regards krishan Tanvir <ultimate wrote: Dear Krishnan Ji - Thanks for your answers. Perhaps I was not clear to explain my question. I understand your bhavat bhavam stuff and involvement of self efforts, son in law, boldness etc. I agree to them, too. But I was asking how can many planets in 11th house can offer numerous relationship? Ashutosh Ji already has provided his expert view but also any other ideas of course welcome... Thanks, Tanvir What cannot happen, can never happen. Which is mine, is forever mine. http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies Where relief and solutions are found - vattem krishnan Sunday, September 25, 2005 11:34 PM Re: Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini and all) Dear Tanvir ji, basically it is 2nd to 10th involving self efforts.As 7th from spouse it's relationsships includes daughter in law and son in law,aprt from paterna uncles,friends and elder brother.As 9th is Dharma bhava,3rd from it has to be kama bhava and bring in intitives and boldness to gain results out of 10th i.e artha bhava.position of numerous plantes dilute significance of the bhava and sign. If the issues is with reference to number of planets posited in 11th,the planet with least longitude has to be winner to bring in significance to kam bhava. The discussion if centered around gains,every thing has to be a gain.But then the story of planets has no full stop at any time as it is 6th from 6th. krishnan SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Hindu astrology Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology Visit your group "" on the web. for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Hindu astrology Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology Visit your group "" on the web. India Matrimony: Find your partner now. SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Hindu astrology Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology Visit your group "" on the web. for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Maniv, Even though I am not one of the 'injured parties' that you talk about :-) ... I am curious to know why you think that astrology or astrologic as some call the underpinnings of cosmobiology are intellect-based or necessary an intellectual pursuit? Or at least why you see it that way when it is all based on a symbolic axiomatic platform? It works, or I would not be here spending endless hours of my life in its worship and service -- but despite all the claims and proclaimations and so on, I fail to see what is so intellectual about astrology? Much of what is hidden and unknown is because of the politics and snootiness and religion of secrecy! It is almost like 'politics out there'! Power is kept under one's possession by withholding information and keeping it that way for as long as one can. Where is the intellect required, once the secrets are transparently revealed? I have seen jyotishis with very modest intellects give brilliant performance in real life. I have also seen otherwise brilliant intellects and proved so in many other fields -- mess up and overcomplicate a simple thing in astrology. In that sense, astrology can be more effective when the spirit is clear and perhaps not necessarily so if only the intellect is. I find it disturbing when people try to lump astrology into the same basket as other intellectual disciplines and sciences etc. When there is absolutely no need to do so. It is time we broke away from this materialistic mould/mold. Don't take it personally, but the position and premise must be challenged. Because it is based on knowledge/information models that simply do not work when astrology is concerned. RR , "maniv1321" <maniv1321> wrote: > Dear Ashutoh > > You mention that: > > "For effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of > Jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of > planets, Navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits." > > The five techniques that you have listed, are they manipulated in > that particular order of importance? Also, you have emphasised the > Navamsa, which is undoubtedly an important chart, but what about the > other divisional such as Dasamsa, Saptamsa etc? Is not understanding > how to interpret such D charts correctly an even more > substantial "short cut " to making specific interpretations? > > I have not seen anyone mention the use of degree/nakshtra placement > in the divisional charts. Has anyone attempted an analyses taking > this into account, and if so what has been the effect? > > G. Singh : thank you for livening up this list with some healthy > debate on astrological principles - it is a shame that certain > individuals have taken criticism of their limitations personally, > rather than defending them an intellectual and practical manner. > > Regards > > Maniv > , "astrologerashutosh" > <astrologerashutosh> wrote: > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > We take the time of birth to determine the exact > degree of lagna by which other sub-dividional charts are prepared. > If we give emphasis to nakshatras only, then there is no need for > other divisional charts. > > > > I am not new to jyotish. It is my passion and I have made > it my full time occupation to do justice to this science. I have > thousands of horoscopes in my database. On regular basis, whenever > any new theory comes up in jyotish, I check the practicality of such > theories by applying them on the charts in my database. Unless and > untill I have applied them on at least five hundred charts, I do not > believe in such theories. > > > > We astrologers tend to study our own horoscopes first to > test any new theory. If it is applicable to us, unconsciously the > support develops. But, if the majority of horoscopes tested do not > support the theory, it should be kept in backgroud, not discarded > totally, and main emphasis should be given to the tried and tested > ones. > > > > I keep nakshatras and astakvargas in the background. I > like to go the hard way of studying all divisional charts than to > choose the short-cut. > > > > Many astrologers have emphasised on nakshatras and > astakvarga points and due to the time saving nature of these > studies, other aspects of the chart like the planetary strengths, > combustions, the planets' placements and yogas in other divisional > charts, are ignored. Most astrologers even do not know the use of > navamsa and dwadashamsa. > > > > I myself have studied astakvargas and nakshatras very > deeply. I do not advocate over-dependence on them because very often > the conclusions from their studies are faulty and contradictory to > natal chart inferences. Whereas, if one has judged the strength of > planets individually and in combinations with other planets, the > accuracy of predictions is increased. > > > > I have received some deep shocks in my astrological > studied and career, when my predictions went wrong, especially in > cases of death and disease, because I was using nakshatras and > astakvargas and ignored the weakness of planets in natal and > divisional charts. I have learnt the bitter lessons of astrology in > a very harsh way. I have never written any verbose books or texts. > > > > The essence of jyotish is lost as we try to make it more > complex and try to impress the common man with rhetorics. For > effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of > jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of > planets, navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits. > > > > If only the above five are studied deeply, the predictions > can be made very correctly. In only a few cases, deeper studies, > like nakshatras and astakvargas, are required. But, if these do not > support or clarify the natal chart conclusions, then they should not > be depended on. > > > > One very wise astrologer had advised me never to study my > own chart. I have seen many astrologers trying to deny the > weaknesses in their charts and to interpret even their most > debiliated planets as very strong ones. After all, astrologers are > also humans. They are also governed by their own horoscopes. The > debiliated planets themselves were governing their mindsets. So, the > outcome is bound to be faulty. > > > > To conclude, I would say that every astrologer has his own > way of studying horoscopes. Only the outcome and correct predictions > matter. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > Tanvir > > > > Tuesday, 27 September, 2005 22:51 > > Re: Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for > Rohini and all) > > > > > > Dear Gurumeet Ji - > > > > Stars are very important in astrology. I personally use them a > lot and do not see the chart without judging them. Most of my > quizzes (real life puzzles) I offered here and in other lists had > their right answers based on the stars and 60-70% of many chart- > events cannot ever be explained or related to astrology without > taking stars into account. Many of my life's important events cannot > be exaplined without stars as well. I here agree with you completely. > > > > I realized about stars from my own studies of real charts and > thought I "discovered" something but later I saw that they already > exist in astrology but very little practiced by people. > > > > But after that I realized that there are still a lot of works to > be done on the topic to refine it. Not all the times a planet in a > 6th lord's star will activate the 6th lord. You will find both the > examples. There is this WHY. Also, there are some additional > concepts I have came up with based on these star concepts. I shared > them in some of my earlier write ups, I do not do anymore now. This > needs a lot of further works. > > > > Even KP is not totally correct in the way it uses stars. It > needs refinement also. I say this most humbly but I am strict in my > position. > > > > What I like in you that you explore things by yourself and know > what works and what does not. You also speak out what you think to > be the truth. However, as you already know by yourself, there is a > bold tone in your mails and conversations that quickly switches the > focus from Jyotish to a bit of personal stuff, and many members > would not like this at all, which is very natural. There is no all- > recognized rule, or principle or concept in Jyotish and no specific > syllabus either. So no one should, or rightfully can, claim what is > to be practiced or what concept must be applied. If he does, it is > only his personal judegement and cannot be imposed on anyone. > > > > In this forum we are here to exchange views of astrology. We can > learn from each other and that is a delibarate process. We cannot, > or should not impose any concept on anyone. That is possible if one > requests for personal guidance, takes a course or something. But > here we are to exchange views. None of us have admitted to follow > anyone's advices or have taken anyone's discipleship to follow his > or her teachings. We all are entitled to choose what we like. > > > > That is why you cannot accuse a person for his practicing > approach. While the techniques you use are good, your very straight > forward and teaching-like manner may be discourage others to > interact with you. Apart from this, whatever teachniques and > concepts you want to use are just fine. So I would really expect you > to fashion your posts in a more respectful way and discussions in a > friendly manner. > > > > Thanks > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > remedies > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > - > > hbk1hbk_2100 > > > > Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:32 PM > > Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini > and all) > > > > > > You completely ignore nakshatras at all. Ketu is in good > nakshatra > > the ruler of 2nd and 9th lord mars exalted in 9th house. Also > Ketu is > > surrounded by three benefics. Ketu matures at the age of 47. > This is > > the opinion of many astrologers. You can read BV Raman's book > How to > > Judge a Horoscope Volume two, page number 368. He mentioned > clearly > > that ketu in 11th will give sudden wealth could be through > lottery. > > Chakrapani Ullal who has 45 years experience in astrology also > > mentioned same thing. > > > > When I study natal chart I consider lagna. When I want to time > events > > and see transits I consider moon sign. > > > > I have studied charts of the murderers also. I found in their > case > > most of the time rahu and ketu are in 6th house or 12 house. > Then > > they will have other planets in rahu and ketu's nakshatras. > That > > makes them killer and criminal. > > > > You should learn nakshatras and apply them to make > predictions. You > > do not consider nakshatras at all. You try to scare people and > then > > start talking about remedies. Remedies can not take one from - > 100 to > > +100. They do have some good effect but may be 10%. > > > > I improved my astrology skills a lot after I started using > > nakshatras. Without nakshatras you are just shooting in the > dark. > > Sometimes you are on target many times you don't. If you are > not and > > your prediction went wrong then you can immediately change it > to > > vipreet raj yoga to protect your reputation as an astrologer. > This is > > what most astrologers do and make fool of ordinary people. > Finally I > > decided to master this science myself and became astrologer. > > > > Regards > > > > G. Singh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > ----------- > > > > > > a.. Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > b.. > > > > > > c.. Terms > of Service. > > > > > > - > ----------- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Dear Maniv, Thanks for your comments. I have been overwhelmed by reading requests and support from members of this group after I have been attacked personally by some SADAK CHHAP astrologers on this group who are just jealous and crying since the day one. I will continue to share my knowledge with all of you as long as the owner of this group will allow me to do so. You can study my chart for last two days as you already know my birth data. I am in JUP/JUP/MERCURY dasha right now. Jupiter has just entered 11th house from natal moon in libra and became favorable. Mercury the partantar dasha lord was with ketu yesterday, unfavorable position, when these people attacked me. Also moon by transit was in cancer in my 8th house from natal moon again in unfavorable position. Next week when Jupiter and Mercury will be together in libra these people will realize that they were wrong, and my apologize to me for their rude behavior. My best wishes are with all of you. Regards G. Singh , "maniv1321" <maniv1321> wrote: > Dear Ashutoh > > You mention that: > > "For effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of > Jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of > planets, Navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits." > > The five techniques that you have listed, are they manipulated in > that particular order of importance? Also, you have emphasised the > Navamsa, which is undoubtedly an important chart, but what about the > other divisional such as Dasamsa, Saptamsa etc? Is not understanding > how to interpret such D charts correctly an even more > substantial "short cut " to making specific interpretations? > > I have not seen anyone mention the use of degree/nakshtra placement > in the divisional charts. Has anyone attempted an analyses taking > this into account, and if so what has been the effect? > > G. Singh : thank you for livening up this list with some healthy > debate on astrological principles - it is a shame that certain > individuals have taken criticism of their limitations personally, > rather than defending them an intellectual and practical manner. > > Regards > > Maniv > , "astrologerashutosh" > <astrologerashutosh> wrote: > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > We take the time of birth to determine the exact > degree of lagna by which other sub-dividional charts are prepared. > If we give emphasis to nakshatras only, then there is no need for > other divisional charts. > > > > I am not new to jyotish. It is my passion and I have made > it my full time occupation to do justice to this science. I have > thousands of horoscopes in my database. On regular basis, whenever > any new theory comes up in jyotish, I check the practicality of such > theories by applying them on the charts in my database. Unless and > untill I have applied them on at least five hundred charts, I do not > believe in such theories. > > > > We astrologers tend to study our own horoscopes first to > test any new theory. If it is applicable to us, unconsciously the > support develops. But, if the majority of horoscopes tested do not > support the theory, it should be kept in backgroud, not discarded > totally, and main emphasis should be given to the tried and tested > ones. > > > > I keep nakshatras and astakvargas in the background. I > like to go the hard way of studying all divisional charts than to > choose the short-cut. > > > > Many astrologers have emphasised on nakshatras and > astakvarga points and due to the time saving nature of these > studies, other aspects of the chart like the planetary strengths, > combustions, the planets' placements and yogas in other divisional > charts, are ignored. Most astrologers even do not know the use of > navamsa and dwadashamsa. > > > > I myself have studied astakvargas and nakshatras very > deeply. I do not advocate over-dependence on them because very often > the conclusions from their studies are faulty and contradictory to > natal chart inferences. Whereas, if one has judged the strength of > planets individually and in combinations with other planets, the > accuracy of predictions is increased. > > > > I have received some deep shocks in my astrological > studied and career, when my predictions went wrong, especially in > cases of death and disease, because I was using nakshatras and > astakvargas and ignored the weakness of planets in natal and > divisional charts. I have learnt the bitter lessons of astrology in > a very harsh way. I have never written any verbose books or texts. > > > > The essence of jyotish is lost as we try to make it more > complex and try to impress the common man with rhetorics. For > effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of > jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of > planets, navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits. > > > > If only the above five are studied deeply, the predictions > can be made very correctly. In only a few cases, deeper studies, > like nakshatras and astakvargas, are required. But, if these do not > support or clarify the natal chart conclusions, then they should not > be depended on. > > > > One very wise astrologer had advised me never to study my > own chart. I have seen many astrologers trying to deny the > weaknesses in their charts and to interpret even their most > debiliated planets as very strong ones. After all, astrologers are > also humans. They are also governed by their own horoscopes. The > debiliated planets themselves were governing their mindsets. So, the > outcome is bound to be faulty. > > > > To conclude, I would say that every astrologer has his own > way of studying horoscopes. Only the outcome and correct predictions > matter. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > Tanvir > > > > Tuesday, 27 September, 2005 22:51 > > Re: Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for > Rohini and all) > > > > > > Dear Gurumeet Ji - > > > > Stars are very important in astrology. I personally use them a > lot and do not see the chart without judging them. Most of my > quizzes (real life puzzles) I offered here and in other lists had > their right answers based on the stars and 60-70% of many chart- > events cannot ever be explained or related to astrology without > taking stars into account. Many of my life's important events cannot > be exaplined without stars as well. I here agree with you completely. > > > > I realized about stars from my own studies of real charts and > thought I "discovered" something but later I saw that they already > exist in astrology but very little practiced by people. > > > > But after that I realized that there are still a lot of works to > be done on the topic to refine it. Not all the times a planet in a > 6th lord's star will activate the 6th lord. You will find both the > examples. There is this WHY. Also, there are some additional > concepts I have came up with based on these star concepts. I shared > them in some of my earlier write ups, I do not do anymore now. This > needs a lot of further works. > > > > Even KP is not totally correct in the way it uses stars. It > needs refinement also. I say this most humbly but I am strict in my > position. > > > > What I like in you that you explore things by yourself and know > what works and what does not. You also speak out what you think to > be the truth. However, as you already know by yourself, there is a > bold tone in your mails and conversations that quickly switches the > focus from Jyotish to a bit of personal stuff, and many members > would not like this at all, which is very natural. There is no all- > recognized rule, or principle or concept in Jyotish and no specific > syllabus either. So no one should, or rightfully can, claim what is > to be practiced or what concept must be applied. If he does, it is > only his personal judegement and cannot be imposed on anyone. > > > > In this forum we are here to exchange views of astrology. We can > learn from each other and that is a delibarate process. We cannot, > or should not impose any concept on anyone. That is possible if one > requests for personal guidance, takes a course or something. But > here we are to exchange views. None of us have admitted to follow > anyone's advices or have taken anyone's discipleship to follow his > or her teachings. We all are entitled to choose what we like. > > > > That is why you cannot accuse a person for his practicing > approach. While the techniques you use are good, your very straight > forward and teaching-like manner may be discourage others to > interact with you. Apart from this, whatever teachniques and > concepts you want to use are just fine. So I would really expect you > to fashion your posts in a more respectful way and discussions in a > friendly manner. > > > > Thanks > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > remedies > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > - > > hbk1hbk_2100 > > > > Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:32 PM > > Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini > and all) > > > > > > You completely ignore nakshatras at all. Ketu is in good > nakshatra > > the ruler of 2nd and 9th lord mars exalted in 9th house. Also > Ketu is > > surrounded by three benefics. Ketu matures at the age of 47. > This is > > the opinion of many astrologers. You can read BV Raman's book > How to > > Judge a Horoscope Volume two, page number 368. He mentioned > clearly > > that ketu in 11th will give sudden wealth could be through > lottery. > > Chakrapani Ullal who has 45 years experience in astrology also > > mentioned same thing. > > > > When I study natal chart I consider lagna. When I want to time > events > > and see transits I consider moon sign. > > > > I have studied charts of the murderers also. I found in their > case > > most of the time rahu and ketu are in 6th house or 12 house. > Then > > they will have other planets in rahu and ketu's nakshatras. > That > > makes them killer and criminal. > > > > You should learn nakshatras and apply them to make > predictions. You > > do not consider nakshatras at all. You try to scare people and > then > > start talking about remedies. Remedies can not take one from - > 100 to > > +100. They do have some good effect but may be 10%. > > > > I improved my astrology skills a lot after I started using > > nakshatras. Without nakshatras you are just shooting in the > dark. > > Sometimes you are on target many times you don't. If you are > not and > > your prediction went wrong then you can immediately change it > to > > vipreet raj yoga to protect your reputation as an astrologer. > This is > > what most astrologers do and make fool of ordinary people. > Finally I > > decided to master this science myself and became astrologer. > > > > Regards > > > > G. Singh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > ----------- > > > > > > a.. Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > b.. > > > > > > c.. Terms > of Service. > > > > > > - > ----------- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 To All, I called SADAK CHHAP astrologers to only those people who were attacking me personally. I did not take anyone's name. Regards G. Singh , "hbk1hbk_2100" <hbk1hbk_2100> wrote: > Dear Maniv, > > Thanks for your comments. I have been overwhelmed by reading > requests and support from members of this group after I have been > attacked personally by some SADAK CHHAP astrologers on this group who > are just jealous and crying since the day one. > > I will continue to share my knowledge with all of you as long as the > owner of this group will allow me to do so. > > You can study my chart for last two days as you already know my birth > data. I am in JUP/JUP/MERCURY dasha right now. Jupiter has just > entered 11th house from natal moon in libra and became favorable. > Mercury the partantar dasha lord was with ketu yesterday, unfavorable > position, when these people attacked me. Also moon by transit was in > cancer in my 8th house from natal moon again in unfavorable position. > > Next week when Jupiter and Mercury will be together in libra these > people will realize that they were wrong, and my apologize to me for > their rude behavior. > > My best wishes are with all of you. > > Regards > > G. Singh > > > > > , "maniv1321" <maniv1321> > wrote: > > Dear Ashutoh > > > > You mention that: > > > > "For effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of > > Jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of > > planets, Navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits." > > > > The five techniques that you have listed, are they manipulated in > > that particular order of importance? Also, you have emphasised the > > Navamsa, which is undoubtedly an important chart, but what about > the > > other divisional such as Dasamsa, Saptamsa etc? Is not > understanding > > how to interpret such D charts correctly an even more > > substantial "short cut " to making specific interpretations? > > > > I have not seen anyone mention the use of degree/nakshtra placement > > in the divisional charts. Has anyone attempted an analyses taking > > this into account, and if so what has been the effect? > > > > G. Singh : thank you for livening up this list with some healthy > > debate on astrological principles - it is a shame that certain > > individuals have taken criticism of their limitations personally, > > rather than defending them an intellectual and practical manner. > > > > Regards > > > > Maniv > > , "astrologerashutosh" > > <astrologerashutosh> wrote: > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > We take the time of birth to determine the > exact > > degree of lagna by which other sub-dividional charts are prepared. > > If we give emphasis to nakshatras only, then there is no need for > > other divisional charts. > > > > > > I am not new to jyotish. It is my passion and I have made > > it my full time occupation to do justice to this science. I have > > thousands of horoscopes in my database. On regular basis, whenever > > any new theory comes up in jyotish, I check the practicality of > such > > theories by applying them on the charts in my database. Unless and > > untill I have applied them on at least five hundred charts, I do > not > > believe in such theories. > > > > > > We astrologers tend to study our own horoscopes first to > > test any new theory. If it is applicable to us, unconsciously the > > support develops. But, if the majority of horoscopes tested do not > > support the theory, it should be kept in backgroud, not discarded > > totally, and main emphasis should be given to the tried and tested > > ones. > > > > > > I keep nakshatras and astakvargas in the background. I > > like to go the hard way of studying all divisional charts than to > > choose the short-cut. > > > > > > Many astrologers have emphasised on nakshatras and > > astakvarga points and due to the time saving nature of these > > studies, other aspects of the chart like the planetary strengths, > > combustions, the planets' placements and yogas in other divisional > > charts, are ignored. Most astrologers even do not know the use of > > navamsa and dwadashamsa. > > > > > > I myself have studied astakvargas and nakshatras very > > deeply. I do not advocate over-dependence on them because very > often > > the conclusions from their studies are faulty and contradictory to > > natal chart inferences. Whereas, if one has judged the strength of > > planets individually and in combinations with other planets, the > > accuracy of predictions is increased. > > > > > > I have received some deep shocks in my astrological > > studied and career, when my predictions went wrong, especially in > > cases of death and disease, because I was using nakshatras and > > astakvargas and ignored the weakness of planets in natal and > > divisional charts. I have learnt the bitter lessons of astrology in > > a very harsh way. I have never written any verbose books or texts. > > > > > > The essence of jyotish is lost as we try to make it more > > complex and try to impress the common man with rhetorics. For > > effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of > > jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of > > planets, navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits. > > > > > > If only the above five are studied deeply, the > predictions > > can be made very correctly. In only a few cases, deeper studies, > > like nakshatras and astakvargas, are required. But, if these do not > > support or clarify the natal chart conclusions, then they should > not > > be depended on. > > > > > > One very wise astrologer had advised me never to study my > > own chart. I have seen many astrologers trying to deny the > > weaknesses in their charts and to interpret even their most > > debiliated planets as very strong ones. After all, astrologers are > > also humans. They are also governed by their own horoscopes. The > > debiliated planets themselves were governing their mindsets. So, > the > > outcome is bound to be faulty. > > > > > > To conclude, I would say that every astrologer has his > own > > way of studying horoscopes. Only the outcome and correct > predictions > > matter. > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Tanvir > > > > > > Tuesday, 27 September, 2005 22:51 > > > Re: Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for > > Rohini and all) > > > > > > > > > Dear Gurumeet Ji - > > > > > > Stars are very important in astrology. I personally use them a > > lot and do not see the chart without judging them. Most of my > > quizzes (real life puzzles) I offered here and in other lists had > > their right answers based on the stars and 60-70% of many chart- > > events cannot ever be explained or related to astrology without > > taking stars into account. Many of my life's important events > cannot > > be exaplined without stars as well. I here agree with you > completely. > > > > > > I realized about stars from my own studies of real charts and > > thought I "discovered" something but later I saw that they already > > exist in astrology but very little practiced by people. > > > > > > But after that I realized that there are still a lot of works > to > > be done on the topic to refine it. Not all the times a planet in a > > 6th lord's star will activate the 6th lord. You will find both the > > examples. There is this WHY. Also, there are some additional > > concepts I have came up with based on these star concepts. I shared > > them in some of my earlier write ups, I do not do anymore now. This > > needs a lot of further works. > > > > > > Even KP is not totally correct in the way it uses stars. It > > needs refinement also. I say this most humbly but I am strict in my > > position. > > > > > > What I like in you that you explore things by yourself and know > > what works and what does not. You also speak out what you think to > > be the truth. However, as you already know by yourself, there is a > > bold tone in your mails and conversations that quickly switches the > > focus from Jyotish to a bit of personal stuff, and many members > > would not like this at all, which is very natural. There is no all- > > recognized rule, or principle or concept in Jyotish and no specific > > syllabus either. So no one should, or rightfully can, claim what is > > to be practiced or what concept must be applied. If he does, it is > > only his personal judegement and cannot be imposed on anyone. > > > > > > In this forum we are here to exchange views of astrology. We > can > > learn from each other and that is a delibarate process. We cannot, > > or should not impose any concept on anyone. That is possible if one > > requests for personal guidance, takes a course or something. But > > here we are to exchange views. None of us have admitted to follow > > anyone's advices or have taken anyone's discipleship to follow his > > or her teachings. We all are entitled to choose what we like. > > > > > > That is why you cannot accuse a person for his practicing > > approach. While the techniques you use are good, your very straight > > forward and teaching-like manner may be discourage others to > > interact with you. Apart from this, whatever teachniques and > > concepts you want to use are just fine. So I would really expect > you > > to fashion your posts in a more respectful way and discussions in a > > friendly manner. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > remedies > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > - > > > hbk1hbk_2100 > > > > > > Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:32 PM > > > Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for > Rohini > > and all) > > > > > > > > > You completely ignore nakshatras at all. Ketu is in good > > nakshatra > > > the ruler of 2nd and 9th lord mars exalted in 9th house. Also > > Ketu is > > > surrounded by three benefics. Ketu matures at the age of 47. > > This is > > > the opinion of many astrologers. You can read BV Raman's book > > How to > > > Judge a Horoscope Volume two, page number 368. He mentioned > > clearly > > > that ketu in 11th will give sudden wealth could be through > > lottery. > > > Chakrapani Ullal who has 45 years experience in astrology > also > > > mentioned same thing. > > > > > > When I study natal chart I consider lagna. When I want to > time > > events > > > and see transits I consider moon sign. > > > > > > I have studied charts of the murderers also. I found in their > > case > > > most of the time rahu and ketu are in 6th house or 12 house. > > Then > > > they will have other planets in rahu and ketu's nakshatras. > > That > > > makes them killer and criminal. > > > > > > You should learn nakshatras and apply them to make > > predictions. You > > > do not consider nakshatras at all. You try to scare people > and > > then > > > start talking about remedies. Remedies can not take one from - > > 100 to > > > +100. They do have some good effect but may be 10%. > > > > > > I improved my astrology skills a lot after I started using > > > nakshatras. Without nakshatras you are just shooting in the > > dark. > > > Sometimes you are on target many times you don't. If you are > > not and > > > your prediction went wrong then you can immediately change it > > to > > > vipreet raj yoga to protect your reputation as an astrologer. > > This is > > > what most astrologers do and make fool of ordinary people. > > Finally I > > > decided to master this science myself and became astrologer. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > G. Singh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- -- > - > > ----------- > > > > > > > > > a.. Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > b.. > > > > > > > > > c.. Terms > > of Service. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- -- > - > > ----------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 Dear gurmeet, No body on this earth is so prudent to brand others as sadak chap. It is sheer mental bankruptcy. I don't understand why most of the astrologers beocome so fussy, arrogant and unreasonable some time and start brickbating and use undesirable language. Talk astrology and don't bother mudslinging. We are here to learn and to unlearn. The people have saddened over such exchange of unhealthy verbose. When we become arrogant, we loose the potentialities to imbibe and learn. We no more remain pupils. Learning needs humility whereas self praise needs no recommendation. hbk1hbk_2100 <hbk1hbk_2100 wrote: To All, I called SADAK CHHAP astrologers to only those people who were attacking me personally. I did not take anyone's name. Regards G. Singh , "hbk1hbk_2100" <hbk1hbk_2100> wrote: > Dear Maniv, > > Thanks for your comments. I have been overwhelmed by reading > requests and support from members of this group after I have been > attacked personally by some SADAK CHHAP astrologers on this group who > are just jealous and crying since the day one. > > I will continue to share my knowledge with all of you as long as the > owner of this group will allow me to do so. > > You can study my chart for last two days as you already know my birth > data. I am in JUP/JUP/MERCURY dasha right now. Jupiter has just > entered 11th house from natal moon in libra and became favorable. > Mercury the partantar dasha lord was with ketu yesterday, unfavorable > position, when these people attacked me. Also moon by transit was in > cancer in my 8th house from natal moon again in unfavorable position. > > Next week when Jupiter and Mercury will be together in libra these > people will realize that they were wrong, and my apologize to me for > their rude behavior. > > My best wishes are with all of you. > > Regards > > G. Singh > > > > > , "maniv1321" <maniv1321> > wrote: > > Dear Ashutoh > > > > You mention that: > > > > "For effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of > > Jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of > > planets, Navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits." > > > > The five techniques that you have listed, are they manipulated in > > that particular order of importance? Also, you have emphasised the > > Navamsa, which is undoubtedly an important chart, but what about > the > > other divisional such as Dasamsa, Saptamsa etc? Is not > understanding > > how to interpret such D charts correctly an even more > > substantial "short cut " to making specific interpretations? > > > > I have not seen anyone mention the use of degree/nakshtra placement > > in the divisional charts. Has anyone attempted an analyses taking > > this into account, and if so what has been the effect? > > > > G. Singh : thank you for livening up this list with some healthy > > debate on astrological principles - it is a shame that certain > > individuals have taken criticism of their limitations personally, > > rather than defending them an intellectual and practical manner. > > > > Regards > > > > Maniv > > , "astrologerashutosh" > > <astrologerashutosh> wrote: > > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > > > We take the time of birth to determine the > exact > > degree of lagna by which other sub-dividional charts are prepared. > > If we give emphasis to nakshatras only, then there is no need for > > other divisional charts. > > > > > > I am not new to jyotish. It is my passion and I have made > > it my full time occupation to do justice to this science. I have > > thousands of horoscopes in my database. On regular basis, whenever > > any new theory comes up in jyotish, I check the practicality of > such > > theories by applying them on the charts in my database. Unless and > > untill I have applied them on at least five hundred charts, I do > not > > believe in such theories. > > > > > > We astrologers tend to study our own horoscopes first to > > test any new theory. If it is applicable to us, unconsciously the > > support develops. But, if the majority of horoscopes tested do not > > support the theory, it should be kept in backgroud, not discarded > > totally, and main emphasis should be given to the tried and tested > > ones. > > > > > > I keep nakshatras and astakvargas in the background. I > > like to go the hard way of studying all divisional charts than to > > choose the short-cut. > > > > > > Many astrologers have emphasised on nakshatras and > > astakvarga points and due to the time saving nature of these > > studies, other aspects of the chart like the planetary strengths, > > combustions, the planets' placements and yogas in other divisional > > charts, are ignored. Most astrologers even do not know the use of > > navamsa and dwadashamsa. > > > > > > I myself have studied astakvargas and nakshatras very > > deeply. I do not advocate over-dependence on them because very > often > > the conclusions from their studies are faulty and contradictory to > > natal chart inferences. Whereas, if one has judged the strength of > > planets individually and in combinations with other planets, the > > accuracy of predictions is increased. > > > > > > I have received some deep shocks in my astrological > > studied and career, when my predictions went wrong, especially in > > cases of death and disease, because I was using nakshatras and > > astakvargas and ignored the weakness of planets in natal and > > divisional charts. I have learnt the bitter lessons of astrology in > > a very harsh way. I have never written any verbose books or texts. > > > > > > The essence of jyotish is lost as we try to make it more > > complex and try to impress the common man with rhetorics. For > > effective predictions, a proper study of only five aspects of > > jyotish are enough in most cases. They are: Natal chart, degrees of > > planets, navamsa, vimshottari dashas and transits. > > > > > > If only the above five are studied deeply, the > predictions > > can be made very correctly. In only a few cases, deeper studies, > > like nakshatras and astakvargas, are required. But, if these do not > > support or clarify the natal chart conclusions, then they should > not > > be depended on. > > > > > > One very wise astrologer had advised me never to study my > > own chart. I have seen many astrologers trying to deny the > > weaknesses in their charts and to interpret even their most > > debiliated planets as very strong ones. After all, astrologers are > > also humans. They are also governed by their own horoscopes. The > > debiliated planets themselves were governing their mindsets. So, > the > > outcome is bound to be faulty. > > > > > > To conclude, I would say that every astrologer has his > own > > way of studying horoscopes. Only the outcome and correct > predictions > > matter. > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Tanvir > > > > > > Tuesday, 27 September, 2005 22:51 > > > Re: Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for > > Rohini and all) > > > > > > > > > Dear Gurumeet Ji - > > > > > > Stars are very important in astrology. I personally use them a > > lot and do not see the chart without judging them. Most of my > > quizzes (real life puzzles) I offered here and in other lists had > > their right answers based on the stars and 60-70% of many chart- > > events cannot ever be explained or related to astrology without > > taking stars into account. Many of my life's important events > cannot > > be exaplined without stars as well. I here agree with you > completely. > > > > > > I realized about stars from my own studies of real charts and > > thought I "discovered" something but later I saw that they already > > exist in astrology but very little practiced by people. > > > > > > But after that I realized that there are still a lot of works > to > > be done on the topic to refine it. Not all the times a planet in a > > 6th lord's star will activate the 6th lord. You will find both the > > examples. There is this WHY. Also, there are some additional > > concepts I have came up with based on these star concepts. I shared > > them in some of my earlier write ups, I do not do anymore now. This > > needs a lot of further works. > > > > > > Even KP is not totally correct in the way it uses stars. It > > needs refinement also. I say this most humbly but I am strict in my > > position. > > > > > > What I like in you that you explore things by yourself and know > > what works and what does not. You also speak out what you think to > > be the truth. However, as you already know by yourself, there is a > > bold tone in your mails and conversations that quickly switches the > > focus from Jyotish to a bit of personal stuff, and many members > > would not like this at all, which is very natural. There is no all- > > recognized rule, or principle or concept in Jyotish and no specific > > syllabus either. So no one should, or rightfully can, claim what is > > to be practiced or what concept must be applied. If he does, it is > > only his personal judegement and cannot be imposed on anyone. > > > > > > In this forum we are here to exchange views of astrology. We > can > > learn from each other and that is a delibarate process. We cannot, > > or should not impose any concept on anyone. That is possible if one > > requests for personal guidance, takes a course or something. But > > here we are to exchange views. None of us have admitted to follow > > anyone's advices or have taken anyone's discipleship to follow his > > or her teachings. We all are entitled to choose what we like. > > > > > > That is why you cannot accuse a person for his practicing > > approach. While the techniques you use are good, your very straight > > forward and teaching-like manner may be discourage others to > > interact with you. Apart from this, whatever teachniques and > > concepts you want to use are just fine. So I would really expect > you > > to fashion your posts in a more respectful way and discussions in a > > friendly manner. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > remedies > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > - > > > hbk1hbk_2100 > > > > > > Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:32 PM > > > Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for > Rohini > > and all) > > > > > > > > > You completely ignore nakshatras at all. Ketu is in good > > nakshatra > > > the ruler of 2nd and 9th lord mars exalted in 9th house. Also > > Ketu is > > > surrounded by three benefics. Ketu matures at the age of 47. > > This is > > > the opinion of many astrologers. You can read BV Raman's book > > How to > > > Judge a Horoscope Volume two, page number 368. He mentioned > > clearly > > > that ketu in 11th will give sudden wealth could be through > > lottery. > > > Chakrapani Ullal who has 45 years experience in astrology > also > > > mentioned same thing. > > > > > > When I study natal chart I consider lagna. When I want to > time > > events > > > and see transits I consider moon sign. > > > > > > I have studied charts of the murderers also. I found in their > > case > > > most of the time rahu and ketu are in 6th house or 12 house. > > Then > > > they will have other planets in rahu and ketu's nakshatras. > > That > > > makes them killer and criminal. > > > > > > You should learn nakshatras and apply them to make > > predictions. You > > > do not consider nakshatras at all. You try to scare people > and > > then > > > start talking about remedies. Remedies can not take one from - > > 100 to > > > +100. They do have some good effect but may be 10%. > > > > > > I improved my astrology skills a lot after I started using > > > nakshatras. Without nakshatras you are just shooting in the > > dark. > > > Sometimes you are on target many times you don't. If you are > > not and > > > your prediction went wrong then you can immediately change it > > to > > > vipreet raj yoga to protect your reputation as an astrologer. > > This is > > > what most astrologers do and make fool of ordinary people. > > Finally I > > > decided to master this science myself and became astrologer. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > G. Singh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > > RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- -- > - > > ----------- > > > > > > > > > a.. Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > b.. > > > > > > > > > c.. Terms > > of Service. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- -- > - > > ----------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Hindu astrology Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology Visit your group "" on the web. India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 By the way can anyone tell me what does this Sadak chap term mean? Sorry, it can even be emailed to me personally. . . What cannot happen, can never happen. Which is mine, is forever mine. http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies Where relief and solutions are found - pankaj sharma Friday, September 30, 2005 3:51 AM Re: Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini and all) Dear gurmeet, No body on this earth is so prudent to brand others as sadak chap. It is sheer mental bankruptcy. I don't understand why most of the astrologers beocome so fussy, arrogant and unreasonable some time and start brickbating and use undesirable language. Talk astrology and don't bother mudslinging. We are here to learn and to unlearn. The people have saddened over such exchange of unhealthy verbose. When we become arrogant, we loose the potentialities to imbibe and learn. We no more remain pupils. Learning needs humility whereas self praise needs no recommendation. hbk1hbk_2100 <hbk1hbk_2100 wrote: To All, I called SADAK CHHAP astrologers to only those people who were attacking me personally. I did not take anyone's name. Regards G. Singh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Gee, haven't heard that term since my college days (no I am not telling when that was ;-))! It is a derogatory term that indicates mediocrity. Sadak is road or street. This is not a jyotish-sepcific term but back in Indian cities and small towns, one could see many jyotishis and fortune tellers sitting by the side of a road waiting for a customer/client. They often had a little box which they carried their stuff in and the box also served as a table (sort of). Most of them had a few images of Gods/Goddesses, a placard with a vermillion aum symbol and swastik and another with a kundali chakra, some also had a parrot (just in case ...) a few books and so 'sadak chaap' had a literal connection with jyotishis. Hope I did not overload you with information ;-) RR , "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...> wrote: > By the way can anyone tell me what does this Sadak chap term mean? Sorry, it can even be emailed to me personally. . . > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies > Where relief and solutions are found > > - > pankaj sharma > > Friday, September 30, 2005 3:51 AM > Re: Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for Rohini and all) > > > Dear gurmeet, > No body on this earth is so prudent to brand others as sadak chap. It is sheer mental bankruptcy. I don't understand why most of the astrologers beocome so fussy, arrogant and unreasonable some time and start brickbating and use undesirable language. Talk astrology and don't bother mudslinging. We are here to learn and to unlearn. The people have saddened over such exchange of unhealthy verbose. When we become arrogant, we loose the potentialities to imbibe and learn. We no more remain pupils. Learning needs humility whereas self praise needs no recommendation. > hbk1hbk_2100 <hbk1hbk_2100> wrote: > To All, > > I called SADAK CHHAP astrologers to only those people who were > attacking me personally. I did not take anyone's name. > > Regards > > G. Singh > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 You are absolutely right in your analysis. , "Rohini (Crystal Pages)" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > Gee, haven't heard that term since my college days (no I am not > telling when that was ;-))! It is a derogatory term that indicates > mediocrity. Sadak is road or street. This is not a jyotish-sepcific > term but back in Indian cities and small towns, one could see many > jyotishis and fortune tellers sitting by the side of a road waiting > for a customer/client. They often had a little box which they carried > their stuff in and the box also served as a table (sort of). Most of > them had a few images of Gods/Goddesses, a placard with a vermillion > aum symbol and swastik and another with a kundali chakra, some also > had a parrot (just in case ...) a few books and so 'sadak chaap' had > a literal connection with jyotishis. > > Hope I did not overload you with information ;-) > > RR > > , "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...> > wrote: > > By the way can anyone tell me what does this Sadak chap term mean? > Sorry, it can even be emailed to me personally. . . > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > remedies > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > - > > pankaj sharma > > > > Friday, September 30, 2005 3:51 AM > > Re: Re: Eleventh Lord and Eleventh House (for > Rohini and all) > > > > > > Dear gurmeet, > > No body on this earth is so prudent to brand others as sadak > chap. It is sheer mental bankruptcy. I don't understand why most of > the astrologers beocome so fussy, arrogant and unreasonable some time > and start brickbating and use undesirable language. Talk astrology > and don't bother mudslinging. We are here to learn and to unlearn. > The people have saddened over such exchange of unhealthy verbose. > When we become arrogant, we loose the potentialities to imbibe and > learn. We no more remain pupils. Learning needs humility whereas self > praise needs no recommendation. > > hbk1hbk_2100 <hbk1hbk_2100> wrote: > > To All, > > > > I called SADAK CHHAP astrologers to only those people who were > > attacking me personally. I did not take anyone's name. > > > > Regards > > > > G. Singh > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smtravikiran Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hey G Singh, Are you still active in this forum....if yes can you please tell us where you stand today..... sorry for asking this question soo late...i am a new entrant here... Thanks Ravikiran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acubens1 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 The answer in UTTARAKALAMRITA - Kalidasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smtravikiran Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Hi I didnt get you ... This is one of the very interesting threads....just curious to know what G Singh is up to....did he find the wind fall or not.....where is he and what is he doing right now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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