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- Religion, spirituality, Jupiter and Kethu

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Dear friends,

 

Now a days, Nodes are getting very high importance in astrology

mostly because of the fact that

the classical texts mention less about them and that field perhaps

unexplored in detail. In

doing so, we need not weigh other planets lightly as each has always

received a great importance

even in classics and texts written afterwards. The ongoing debate on

Jupiter-Kethu and the

religious-spiritual matters is interesting and a few words about that:

 

Religion is NOT equal to DHARMA, but is just an English

representation. So when Jupiter

is said to represent DHARMA, it is NOT JUST ritualism or procedure

oriented activity.

The DHARMA the first step to Artha, Kaama and Moksha. There can be

salvation without religion BUT

there can not be MOKSHA without DHARMA. Dharma is different from

Pooja, Sandhyavandana, Japa or Tapa.

 

Dharma is an abstract morality; for example, non-violence is dharma!

(AHIMSA PARAMO DHARMAH)

Can you achieve MOKSHA with violence?..is left to your perception!

Truth speaking is a DHARMA,

(satya vak), doing justice(Nyaaya) is a dharma...and list goes on.

And THIS is the DHARMA that

is represented by the Jupiter and not just Pooja or Yaj~na. No doubt

Kethu represents Moksha

or adhyatma, but if the native's DHARMA is weak and not strengthened

by Jupiter, goal is not reached!

So Jupiter is the requirement and Kethu is the implementation for any

spiritual task.

 

THAT is why, Jupiter is assigned with rulership of 9th(DHARMA) and

12th(MOKSHA) rashi in zodiac!

Kethu is a tenant and just his position in MEENA is said make one

seek his spiritual goal. See the blend here!

Jupiter is the only planet which rules rashis having two RKSHA sandhi

with Kethu stars - Moola and Ashwini -

which are starting points!(Moola = origin, Ashwini = starting point

of zodiac). So, there is no point in

trying to differentiate between Jupiter and Kethu for spiritual

purposes. They both are needed as

requirement(Jupiter) and implementation(Kethu).

 

yours humbly,

KAD

 

 

 

 

 

 

, vattem krishnan

<bursar_99> wrote:

> Dear Asutosh ji and Bala ji,

> The discussiontaking place made me also to interfere between both

of you

> In the role play of planets the atttempt being made may be to

define:fineness of religion as well as spirtualityand ascribing the

planetary nature to the Guru and Ketu and to extend for purpose of

discipine role saturn too has to play in either case

> basically a system of faith and worship is basic to religion and

get absorbed in high thoughts is spirtuality.

> The former is more of a personal preference and the later is more

abstract in nature until it is realised that spirtualism is indeed a

way of approach with specific ideals.

> The rest of the indications normally shown and exhibited are very

common and usual in visiting temples to perform regularly

Gayatrijapam.

> Importance of these actions is more personal and are more in the

nature of beliefs.beyond this linking actions of personal nature to

Guru and view them as religious in nature only and doesn't enable

divinity and excluding planet Guru and ascribe sprtual(beyond a

point ) approach to ketu .Thus denying Guru the role of divinity is

too harsh and bring in Ketu as he does not have any materialistic

inclination is to deny continuity of approach.probably the interplay

of all these three planets is more a judicious attempt and resolve

both issues of religion and spirtualism.

> Planets therefore attempt in holistic way for all that is good and

bad.Probably assessing capabilities of planets for specific issues

and limiting them is not a way in our vedic sciences and is also

certainly not the objectivity of Astrology.

> krishnan

>

> Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji> wrote:

> Ashutosh ji,

>

> For a person who doesn't believe in God, your knowledge of Him

> is excellent!

>

> I agree with most of your points. However, instead using

> "religious" and "spiritual" I prefer the words "ritualistic" and

> "religious"

>

> A ritualistic person follows religious injunctions - does

> Sandyavandanam, goes to temples, etc.

>

> A religious person is concerned more about his love for God and

> God's love for him.

>

> Of course, they are not mutually exclusive. Some may be both,

> some only one. But, the religious person, the person who truly

> loves God, is the best.

>

> You have studied my chart and mentioned about my spiritual

> progress. Well, I am NOT ritualistic. I hate doing

> sandyavandanam because I don't see it getting me closer to God.

>

> However, I love visiting temples because I find peace and feel

> closer to Him.

>

> In my humble opinion, a truly religious person is one who can

> actually cry when contemplating on God.

>

> One tear, shed by a true devotee, is far greater than all the

> religious scriptures in the world.

>

> God can be realized to an extent through books, but experiencing

> Him can only be done at a deeply personal level.

>

> In astrology, as you say, the graha Guru, while ensuring

> conformance, doesn't enable divinity beyond a point. For this,

> one has to seek out Ketu and Sani.

>

> So, one way of looking at it could be:

>

> Surya - The soul who must reach God

> Chandra - The mind that must contemplate God

> Budha - The intelligence that must probe and question truths

> that lead one to God

> Sukra - Pleasures, which one must realize stand in the way of

> God realization

> Kuja - Energy that keeps us motivated and anger that must be

> shunned to reach God

> Guru - Conformance, which one soon realizes only goes so far in

> the quest for God

> Sani - Vairagya, which is so esential for reaching God

> Rahu - Materialism, which must be shunned for God realization

> Ketu - The Moksha Karaka, who enables us to reach God

>

> Of course, this is just a personal opinion.

>

> This explains why Sani dislikes Chandra - Chandra seeks

> pleasures, while Sani wants to dicipline him and teach him

> renunciation!

>

> And also, the effects of Rahu and Ketu on Surya - the former

> seeks to corrrupt the soul, but the later seeks to raise it to a

> higher level!

>

> Also, the "great" Guru - well, he gets Uccha in Pushya, a

> nakshatra owned by Sani, the graha of Vairagya!

>

> Vairagya means giving up. Guru must give up his insistence on

> rituals if he has to realize God!

>

> BTW, earlier, you had said:

>

> <<<I have seen some other horoscopes of people born in

> 1973 and having gemini lagna, ketu in lagna and jupiter in

> eighth. Most of them are scholars, good with languages and very

> interested in literature.>>>

>

> What of their religious beliefs? A study of this will be most

> illuminating for me personally!

>

> Regards,

>

> Balaji

>

>

> ~~~~~~~

> Balaji Narasimhan * http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm

> Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs

> Editor, The Partial Art of Detection

> ~~~~~~~

>

>

>

> __

> Start your day with - make it your home page

> http://www./r/hs

>

>

>

>

>

> SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH

THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software

>

>

>

>

>

> Visit your group "" on the web.

>

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Dear Kad ji,

 

I am totally with you in this regard but I was not in a position impress through

my write up my other friends.I am sure with your:Dharma is an abstract morality

words they get convinced.

You are forth right when you have put :but if the native's DHARMA is weak and

not strengthened by Jupiter, goal is not reached!

I wish that you have gone through my earlier mail to Mr.Balaji where I mentioned

continuity and aspects relating to Dharma.

 

In another mail when Mr balaji referred to Maha Nakshtras,I had to go in to

vedic mansions to bring out these celestial arrangements are well defined and

carried specific meaning with reference to various aspects of universe.

 

So "there is no point in trying to differentiate between Jupiter and Kethu for

spiritual purposes. "and bring in degrees of relativity between these two

planets"

 

There is no doubt what kind of aproach and life a native is bound to lead from

past as well as in present in well conveyed in janma Patri and the kind of

language various planets beginning with sun and keu and vice versa.

 

As far as nodes making sounds in astrology was the most prmitive kind of

revealation made in our texts.Now to decipher these sounds and able to bring in

precision will continue till such time the day comes to say authoritatively like

other planets,the write ups coming up are only confined to opinions,personal

experiences and their views.

 

Thanx to a meaningful way of looking at planets and the metaphysical aspects.

 

regards

 

krishnan

 

 

 

 

kadrudra <kadrudra wrote:

Dear friends,

 

Now a days, Nodes are getting very high importance in astrology

mostly because of the fact that

the classical texts mention less about them and that field perhaps

unexplored in detail. In

doing so, we need not weigh other planets lightly as each has always

received a great importance

even in classics and texts written afterwards. The ongoing debate on

Jupiter-Kethu and the

religious-spiritual matters is interesting and a few words about that:

 

Religion is NOT equal to DHARMA, but is just an English

representation. So when Jupiter

is said to represent DHARMA, it is NOT JUST ritualism or procedure

oriented activity.

The DHARMA the first step to Artha, Kaama and Moksha. There can be

salvation without religion BUT

there can not be MOKSHA without DHARMA. Dharma is different from

Pooja, Sandhyavandana, Japa or Tapa.

 

Dharma is an abstract morality; for example, non-violence is dharma!

(AHIMSA PARAMO DHARMAH)

Can you achieve MOKSHA with violence?..is left to your perception!

Truth speaking is a DHARMA,

(satya vak), doing justice(Nyaaya) is a dharma...and list goes on.

And THIS is the DHARMA that

is represented by the Jupiter and not just Pooja or Yaj~na. No doubt

Kethu represents Moksha

or adhyatma, but if the native's DHARMA is weak and not strengthened

by Jupiter, goal is not reached!

So Jupiter is the requirement and Kethu is the implementation for any

spiritual task.

 

THAT is why, Jupiter is assigned with rulership of 9th(DHARMA) and

12th(MOKSHA) rashi in zodiac!

Kethu is a tenant and just his position in MEENA is said make one

seek his spiritual goal. See the blend here!

Jupiter is the only planet which rules rashis having two RKSHA sandhi

with Kethu stars - Moola and Ashwini -

which are starting points!(Moola = origin, Ashwini = starting point

of zodiac). So, there is no point in

trying to differentiate between Jupiter and Kethu for spiritual

purposes. They both are needed as

requirement(Jupiter) and implementation(Kethu).

 

yours humbly,

KAD

 

 

 

 

 

 

, vattem krishnan

<bursar_99> wrote:

> Dear Asutosh ji and Bala ji,

> The discussiontaking place made me also to interfere between both

of you

> In the role play of planets the atttempt being made may be to

define:fineness of religion as well as spirtualityand ascribing the

planetary nature to the Guru and Ketu and to extend for purpose of

discipine role saturn too has to play in either case

> basically a system of faith and worship is basic to religion and

get absorbed in high thoughts is spirtuality.

> The former is more of a personal preference and the later is more

abstract in nature until it is realised that spirtualism is indeed a

way of approach with specific ideals.

> The rest of the indications normally shown and exhibited are very

common and usual in visiting temples to perform regularly

Gayatrijapam.

> Importance of these actions is more personal and are more in the

nature of beliefs.beyond this linking actions of personal nature to

Guru and view them as religious in nature only and doesn't enable

divinity and excluding planet Guru and ascribe sprtual(beyond a

point ) approach to ketu .Thus denying Guru the role of divinity is

too harsh and bring in Ketu as he does not have any materialistic

inclination is to deny continuity of approach.probably the interplay

of all these three planets is more a judicious attempt and resolve

both issues of religion and spirtualism.

> Planets therefore attempt in holistic way for all that is good and

bad.Probably assessing capabilities of planets for specific issues

and limiting them is not a way in our vedic sciences and is also

certainly not the objectivity of Astrology.

> krishnan

>

> Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji> wrote:

> Ashutosh ji,

>

> For a person who doesn't believe in God, your knowledge of Him

> is excellent!

>

> I agree with most of your points. However, instead using

> "religious" and "spiritual" I prefer the words "ritualistic" and

> "religious"

>

> A ritualistic person follows religious injunctions - does

> Sandyavandanam, goes to temples, etc.

>

> A religious person is concerned more about his love for God and

> God's love for him.

>

> Of course, they are not mutually exclusive. Some may be both,

> some only one. But, the religious person, the person who truly

> loves God, is the best.

>

> You have studied my chart and mentioned about my spiritual

> progress. Well, I am NOT ritualistic. I hate doing

> sandyavandanam because I don't see it getting me closer to God.

>

> However, I love visiting temples because I find peace and feel

> closer to Him.

>

> In my humble opinion, a truly religious person is one who can

> actually cry when contemplating on God.

>

> One tear, shed by a true devotee, is far greater than all the

> religious scriptures in the world.

>

> God can be realized to an extent through books, but experiencing

> Him can only be done at a deeply personal level.

>

> In astrology, as you say, the graha Guru, while ensuring

> conformance, doesn't enable divinity beyond a point. For this,

> one has to seek out Ketu and Sani.

>

> So, one way of looking at it could be:

>

> Surya - The soul who must reach God

> Chandra - The mind that must contemplate God

> Budha - The intelligence that must probe and question truths

> that lead one to God

> Sukra - Pleasures, which one must realize stand in the way of

> God realization

> Kuja - Energy that keeps us motivated and anger that must be

> shunned to reach God

> Guru - Conformance, which one soon realizes only goes so far in

> the quest for God

> Sani - Vairagya, which is so esential for reaching God

> Rahu - Materialism, which must be shunned for God realization

> Ketu - The Moksha Karaka, who enables us to reach God

>

> Of course, this is just a personal opinion.

>

> This explains why Sani dislikes Chandra - Chandra seeks

> pleasures, while Sani wants to dicipline him and teach him

> renunciation!

>

> And also, the effects of Rahu and Ketu on Surya - the former

> seeks to corrrupt the soul, but the later seeks to raise it to a

> higher level!

>

> Also, the "great" Guru - well, he gets Uccha in Pushya, a

> nakshatra owned by Sani, the graha of Vairagya!

>

> Vairagya means giving up. Guru must give up his insistence on

> rituals if he has to realize God!

>

> BTW, earlier, you had said:

>

> <<<I have seen some other horoscopes of people born in

> 1973 and having gemini lagna, ketu in lagna and jupiter in

> eighth. Most of them are scholars, good with languages and very

> interested in literature.>>>

>

> What of their religious beliefs? A study of this will be most

> illuminating for me personally!

>

> Regards,

>

> Balaji

>

>

> ~~~~~~~

> Balaji Narasimhan * http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm

> Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs

> Editor, The Partial Art of Detection

> ~~~~~~~

>

>

>

> __

> Start your day with - make it your home page

> http://www./r/hs

>

>

>

>

>

> SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH

THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software

>

>

>

>

>

> Visit your group "" on the web.

>

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF

ABSOLUTE BLISS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "" on the web.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Start your day with - make it your home page

 

 

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Dear Kadrudra,

 

Jupiter has too high a pedestal to know the travails of

life. It does not represent justice, but only what it believes is justice

according to the laws. Even terrorists and religious fanatics have very strong

jupiter. Jupiter represents belief, not the fact.

 

Belief does not and can never lead to anything near to Moksha. Only an

understanding of realities of life and their acceptance leads one to the path of

salvation. Reading a thousand scriptures cannot give that satisfaction to the

soul which is got by feeding a hungry and needy man.

 

Dharma is also a set of rules. Rules prescribing ways of life. When a

Islamic extremist slits throat of a hostage, he firmly believes that he is doing

his dharma. Suicide bombers also believe in their dharma. It is all matter of

belief. And belief, again I emphasize, is made stronger by a strong jupiter.

 

Jupiter and ketu have always combined to give rise to deadliest of

religious fanaticism. Ketu is unemotional but very powerful. It gives jupiter

its strength and jupiter does what it believes is the tradition.

 

To realize the meaning of Moksha and effects of saturn-ketu, simple go

to the Shamshan (crematorium) once a week. Look at the burning corpses and the

relatives mourning the dead. There, all the rituals, all material gains, every

ambition, seems useless.

 

 

Jupiter has been overhyped as a benefic and a panacea for all cures. It

is called "Jeev" in sanskrit, it gives life but takes it too.

 

I Know a man who has venus-mars in libra in fifth and jupiter in

sagittarius in seventh house. He has had physical relations with over a two

hundred different women, call-girls and all. But, while getting married, he went

for arranged marriage, emphasised on gotra and nadi dosha, etc. He is highly

religious and a brahmin by caste, but every evening he finishes a bottle of

whiskey before goind to bed.

 

While there are some who have exalted jupiter in lagna, and they do not

think twice before taking advantage of others.

 

 

 

Why do we appreciate love-stories shown in movies and written in novels,

but when it happens in our families, we treat love as biggest crime? We talk

about having an equal world, but boast of our lineage, caste and religious

superiority. We denounce discrimination, but we always discriminate.

 

We do not care for our elderly, but spend thousands on their after-death

rituals. How many of us are ready to adopt children instead of giving birth to

one more kid? Saturn and mercury are responsible for adoptions, the best of

human acts, not jupiter.

 

We are concerned about society, relatives, religious persecution and

what not, but are afraid to take one bold but right step.

 

Jupiter binds, restricts, but saturn sets one free. A free mind is not

gift of jupiter but saturn and ketu. And only a free mind can think rationally

and in an unbiased way. Moksha has been derived from 'Mukta' meaning 'free'. How

can a planet which binds and restricts the mind lead one to moksha?

 

 

I do not and can not go blindly by what has been written in books. The

life itself teaches a lot.

 

 

 

Ashutosh

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

kadrudra

Saturday, August 20, 2005 07:29

Re: - Religion, spirituality, Jupiter and Kethu

 

 

Dear friends,

 

Now a days, Nodes are getting very high importance in astrology

mostly because of the fact that

the classical texts mention less about them and that field perhaps

unexplored in detail. In

doing so, we need not weigh other planets lightly as each has always

received a great importance

even in classics and texts written afterwards. The ongoing debate on

Jupiter-Kethu and the

religious-spiritual matters is interesting and a few words about that:

 

Religion is NOT equal to DHARMA, but is just an English

representation. So when Jupiter

is said to represent DHARMA, it is NOT JUST ritualism or procedure

oriented activity.

The DHARMA the first step to Artha, Kaama and Moksha. There can be

salvation without religion BUT

there can not be MOKSHA without DHARMA. Dharma is different from

Pooja, Sandhyavandana, Japa or Tapa.

 

Dharma is an abstract morality; for example, non-violence is dharma!

(AHIMSA PARAMO DHARMAH)

Can you achieve MOKSHA with violence?..is left to your perception!

Truth speaking is a DHARMA,

(satya vak), doing justice(Nyaaya) is a dharma...and list goes on.

And THIS is the DHARMA that

is represented by the Jupiter and not just Pooja or Yaj~na. No doubt

Kethu represents Moksha

or adhyatma, but if the native's DHARMA is weak and not strengthened

by Jupiter, goal is not reached!

So Jupiter is the requirement and Kethu is the implementation for any

spiritual task.

 

THAT is why, Jupiter is assigned with rulership of 9th(DHARMA) and

12th(MOKSHA) rashi in zodiac!

Kethu is a tenant and just his position in MEENA is said make one

seek his spiritual goal. See the blend here!

Jupiter is the only planet which rules rashis having two RKSHA sandhi

with Kethu stars - Moola and Ashwini -

which are starting points!(Moola = origin, Ashwini = starting point

of zodiac). So, there is no point in

trying to differentiate between Jupiter and Kethu for spiritual

purposes. They both are needed as

requirement(Jupiter) and implementation(Kethu).

 

yours humbly,

KAD

 

 

 

 

 

 

, vattem krishnan

<bursar_99> wrote:

> Dear Asutosh ji and Bala ji,

> The discussiontaking place made me also to interfere between both

of you

> In the role play of planets the atttempt being made may be to

define:fineness of religion as well as spirtualityand ascribing the

planetary nature to the Guru and Ketu and to extend for purpose of

discipine role saturn too has to play in either case

> basically a system of faith and worship is basic to religion and

get absorbed in high thoughts is spirtuality.

> The former is more of a personal preference and the later is more

abstract in nature until it is realised that spirtualism is indeed a

way of approach with specific ideals.

> The rest of the indications normally shown and exhibited are very

common and usual in visiting temples to perform regularly

Gayatrijapam.

> Importance of these actions is more personal and are more in the

nature of beliefs.beyond this linking actions of personal nature to

Guru and view them as religious in nature only and doesn't enable

divinity and excluding planet Guru and ascribe sprtual(beyond a

point ) approach to ketu .Thus denying Guru the role of divinity is

too harsh and bring in Ketu as he does not have any materialistic

inclination is to deny continuity of approach.probably the interplay

of all these three planets is more a judicious attempt and resolve

both issues of religion and spirtualism.

> Planets therefore attempt in holistic way for all that is good and

bad.Probably assessing capabilities of planets for specific issues

and limiting them is not a way in our vedic sciences and is also

certainly not the objectivity of Astrology.

> krishnan

>

> Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji> wrote:

> Ashutosh ji,

>

> For a person who doesn't believe in God, your knowledge of Him

> is excellent!

>

> I agree with most of your points. However, instead using

> "religious" and "spiritual" I prefer the words "ritualistic" and

> "religious"

>

> A ritualistic person follows religious injunctions - does

> Sandyavandanam, goes to temples, etc.

>

> A religious person is concerned more about his love for God and

> God's love for him.

>

> Of course, they are not mutually exclusive. Some may be both,

> some only one. But, the religious person, the person who truly

> loves God, is the best.

>

> You have studied my chart and mentioned about my spiritual

> progress. Well, I am NOT ritualistic. I hate doing

> sandyavandanam because I don't see it getting me closer to God.

>

> However, I love visiting temples because I find peace and feel

> closer to Him.

>

> In my humble opinion, a truly religious person is one who can

> actually cry when contemplating on God.

>

> One tear, shed by a true devotee, is far greater than all the

> religious scriptures in the world.

>

> God can be realized to an extent through books, but experiencing

> Him can only be done at a deeply personal level.

>

> In astrology, as you say, the graha Guru, while ensuring

> conformance, doesn't enable divinity beyond a point. For this,

> one has to seek out Ketu and Sani.

>

> So, one way of looking at it could be:

>

> Surya - The soul who must reach God

> Chandra - The mind that must contemplate God

> Budha - The intelligence that must probe and question truths

> that lead one to God

> Sukra - Pleasures, which one must realize stand in the way of

> God realization

> Kuja - Energy that keeps us motivated and anger that must be

> shunned to reach God

> Guru - Conformance, which one soon realizes only goes so far in

> the quest for God

> Sani - Vairagya, which is so esential for reaching God

> Rahu - Materialism, which must be shunned for God realization

> Ketu - The Moksha Karaka, who enables us to reach God

>

> Of course, this is just a personal opinion.

>

> This explains why Sani dislikes Chandra - Chandra seeks

> pleasures, while Sani wants to dicipline him and teach him

> renunciation!

>

> And also, the effects of Rahu and Ketu on Surya - the former

> seeks to corrrupt the soul, but the later seeks to raise it to a

> higher level!

>

> Also, the "great" Guru - well, he gets Uccha in Pushya, a

> nakshatra owned by Sani, the graha of Vairagya!

>

> Vairagya means giving up. Guru must give up his insistence on

> rituals if he has to realize God!

>

> BTW, earlier, you had said:

>

> <<<I have seen some other horoscopes of people born in

> 1973 and having gemini lagna, ketu in lagna and jupiter in

> eighth. Most of them are scholars, good with languages and very

> interested in literature.>>>

>

> What of their religious beliefs? A study of this will be most

> illuminating for me personally!

>

> Regards,

>

> Balaji

>

>

> ~~~~~~~

> Balaji Narasimhan * http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm

> Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs

> Editor, The Partial Art of Detection

> ~~~~~~~

>

>

>

> __

> Start your day with - make it your home page

> http://www./r/hs

>

>

>

>

>

> SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH

THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software

>

>

>

>

>

> Visit your group "" on the web.

>

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE

OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

a.. Visit your group "" on the web.

 

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Posted

Dear friend,

 

 

Only relevent lines quoted:

 

 

>>Even terrorists and religious fanatics have very strong

>>jupiter. Jupiter represents belief, not the fact.

 

Even RavaNa of Ramayana had very strong and good Jupiter, like Rama!

Charts of Bheema and Duryodhana from Mahabharata are alike! Were they

same?

Strong Jupiter means that the native is POTENT enough; whether he

implements it for good or bad

is subject to other influences in the chart and also his KARMA. So

why blame Jupiter?

Nuclear technology is not BAD, its use for destruction and its

possession in wrong hands is BAD!

So why blame nuclear technology?

 

>>Dharma is also a set of rules. Rules prescribing ways of life.

 

Dear astrologer! sorry! this is NOT so simple! Its importance is much

greater and

should have been understood when Krishna says "Dharma

Samshtapanaarthaya Sambhavaami yuge yuge"

(I will be born again and again in each Yuga to uphold DHARMA) in

Geeta.

 

>>When a Islamic extremist slits throat of a hostage, he firmly

believes that he is doing

>>his dharma. Suicide bombers also believe in their dharma. It is all

matter of

>>belief. And belief, again I emphasize, is made stronger by a strong

jupiter.

 

Do not confine it to Islam or any other sect; EXTREMISTS have no

dharma; theirs is a blind belief

based on excited and agitated state of mind and it is not due to

strong Jupiter. They are

called PATAKI or ADHARMI in sanskrit.

 

>>Jupiter and ketu have always combined to give rise to deadliest of

>>religious fanaticism. Ketu is unemotional but very powerful. It

gives jupiter

>>its strength and jupiter does what it believes is the tradition.

 

Yes, that should make one understand, how Kethu can divert Potency to

bad areas!

 

>>To realize the meaning of Moksha and effects of saturn-ketu, simple

go

>>to the Shamshan (crematorium) once a week. Look at the burning

corpses and the

>>relatives mourning the dead. There, all the rituals, all material

gains, every

>>ambition, seems useless.

 

Why not one go to spiritual or speeches(Pravachana) to understand the

same?

It is all how one thinks and which way he chooses! Whether one is

influenced

by his father's words or his burning pyre, he always struggles with

his brother for

the properties his father left(except a few)! And THAT is the life!

 

>>I Know a man who has venus-mars in libra in fifth and jupiter in

>>sagittarius in seventh house....etc

>>While there are some who have exalted jupiter in lagna, and they do

not

>>think twice before taking advantage of others.

 

I have many charts of the same combination, the natives of which are

living peacefully and happily without any problem you mentioned, most

of them

being spiritually good and balanced. (1972 Nov-Dec). One can not

create

astro-dicta on the basis a a few cases!

 

>>Jupiter binds, restricts, but saturn sets one free. A free mind is

not

>>gift of jupiter but saturn and ketu. And only a free mind can think

rationally

>>and in an unbiased way. Moksha has been derived from 'Mukta'

meaning 'free'. How

>>can a planet which binds and restricts the mind lead one to moksha?

 

Dharma is never binding, it is for our protection and that is why

DHARMO RAKSHATI RAKSHITAH.

(Dharma protects being protected). Imagine what happens in a busy

street if there are no traffic rules!

It is a burden for some! It does not mean that the rules are bad; nor

the rule maker.

 

>>I do not and can not go blindly by what has been written in books.

The

>>life itself teaches a lot.

 

Thats really good, but one's experience and experiment with life can

not be

generalized for the whole society! Let us be patient enough to learn

and understand from past too!

 

Hope my words are not offensive,

 

yours humbly

KAD

 

 

 

 

 

, "Astrologer Ashutosh"

<astrologerashutosh> wrote:

> Dear Kadrudra,

>

> Jupiter has too high a pedestal to know the

travails of life. It does not represent justice, but only what it

believes is justice according to the laws. Even terrorists and

religious fanatics have very strong jupiter. Jupiter represents

belief, not the fact.

>

> Belief does not and can never lead to anything near to

Moksha. Only an understanding of realities of life and their

acceptance leads one to the path of salvation. Reading a thousand

scriptures cannot give that satisfaction to the soul which is got by

feeding a hungry and needy man.

>

> Dharma is also a set of rules. Rules prescribing ways of

life. When a Islamic extremist slits throat of a hostage, he firmly

believes that he is doing his dharma. Suicide bombers also believe in

their dharma. It is all matter of belief. And belief, again I

emphasize, is made stronger by a strong jupiter.

>

> Jupiter and ketu have always combined to give rise to

deadliest of religious fanaticism. Ketu is unemotional but very

powerful. It gives jupiter its strength and jupiter does what it

believes is the tradition.

>

> To realize the meaning of Moksha and effects of saturn-

ketu, simple go to the Shamshan (crematorium) once a week. Look at

the burning corpses and the relatives mourning the dead. There, all

the rituals, all material gains, every ambition, seems useless.

>

>

> Jupiter has been overhyped as a benefic and a panacea for

all cures. It is called "Jeev" in sanskrit, it gives life but takes

it too.

>

> I Know a man who has venus-mars in libra in fifth and

jupiter in sagittarius in seventh house. He has had physical

relations with over a two hundred different women, call-girls and

all. But, while getting married, he went for arranged marriage,

emphasised on gotra and nadi dosha, etc. He is highly religious and a

brahmin by caste, but every evening he finishes a bottle of whiskey

before goind to bed.

>

> While there are some who have exalted jupiter in lagna, and

they do not think twice before taking advantage of others.

>

>

>

> Why do we appreciate love-stories shown in movies and

written in novels, but when it happens in our families, we treat love

as biggest crime? We talk about having an equal world, but boast of

our lineage, caste and religious superiority. We denounce

discrimination, but we always discriminate.

>

> We do not care for our elderly, but spend thousands on

their after-death rituals. How many of us are ready to adopt children

instead of giving birth to one more kid? Saturn and mercury are

responsible for adoptions, the best of human acts, not jupiter.

>

> We are concerned about society, relatives, religious

persecution and what not, but are afraid to take one bold but right

step.

>

> Jupiter binds, restricts, but saturn sets one free. A free

mind is not gift of jupiter but saturn and ketu. And only a free mind

can think rationally and in an unbiased way. Moksha has been derived

from 'Mukta' meaning 'free'. How can a planet which binds and

restricts the mind lead one to moksha?

>

>

> I do not and can not go blindly by what has been written in

books. The life itself teaches a lot.

>

>

>

> Ashutosh

-

> kadrudra

>

> Saturday, August 20, 2005 07:29

> Re: - Religion, spirituality, Jupiter and Kethu

>

>

> Dear friends,

>

> Now a days, Nodes are getting very high importance in astrology

> mostly because of the fact that

> the classical texts mention less about them and that field

perhaps

> unexplored in detail. In

> doing so, we need not weigh other planets lightly as each has

always

> received a great importance

> even in classics and texts written afterwards. The ongoing debate

on

> Jupiter-Kethu and the

> religious-spiritual matters is interesting and a few words about

that:

>

> Religion is NOT equal to DHARMA, but is just an English

> representation. So when Jupiter

> is said to represent DHARMA, it is NOT JUST ritualism or

procedure

> oriented activity.

> The DHARMA the first step to Artha, Kaama and Moksha. There can

be

> salvation without religion BUT

> there can not be MOKSHA without DHARMA. Dharma is different from

> Pooja, Sandhyavandana, Japa or Tapa.

>

> Dharma is an abstract morality; for example, non-violence is

dharma!

> (AHIMSA PARAMO DHARMAH)

> Can you achieve MOKSHA with violence?..is left to your

perception!

> Truth speaking is a DHARMA,

> (satya vak), doing justice(Nyaaya) is a dharma...and list goes

on.

> And THIS is the DHARMA that

> is represented by the Jupiter and not just Pooja or Yaj~na. No

doubt

> Kethu represents Moksha

> or adhyatma, but if the native's DHARMA is weak and not

strengthened

> by Jupiter, goal is not reached!

> So Jupiter is the requirement and Kethu is the implementation for

any

> spiritual task.

>

> THAT is why, Jupiter is assigned with rulership of 9th(DHARMA)

and

> 12th(MOKSHA) rashi in zodiac!

> Kethu is a tenant and just his position in MEENA is said make one

> seek his spiritual goal. See the blend here!

> Jupiter is the only planet which rules rashis having two RKSHA

sandhi

> with Kethu stars - Moola and Ashwini -

> which are starting points!(Moola = origin, Ashwini = starting

point

> of zodiac). So, there is no point in

> trying to differentiate between Jupiter and Kethu for spiritual

> purposes. They both are needed as

> requirement(Jupiter) and implementation(Kethu).

>

> yours humbly,

> KAD

, vattem krishnan

> <bursar_99> wrote:

> > Dear Asutosh ji and Bala ji,

> > The discussiontaking place made me also to interfere between

both

> of you

> > In the role play of planets the atttempt being made may be to

> define:fineness of religion as well as spirtualityand ascribing

the

> planetary nature to the Guru and Ketu and to extend for purpose

of

> discipine role saturn too has to play in either case

> > basically a system of faith and worship is basic to religion

and

> get absorbed in high thoughts is spirtuality.

> > The former is more of a personal preference and the later is

more

> abstract in nature until it is realised that spirtualism is

indeed a

> way of approach with specific ideals.

> > The rest of the indications normally shown and exhibited are

very

> common and usual in visiting temples to perform regularly

> Gayatrijapam.

> > Importance of these actions is more personal and are more in

the

> nature of beliefs.beyond this linking actions of personal nature

to

> Guru and view them as religious in nature only and doesn't enable

> divinity and excluding planet Guru and ascribe sprtual(beyond a

> point ) approach to ketu .Thus denying Guru the role of divinity

is

> too harsh and bring in Ketu as he does not have any

materialistic

> inclination is to deny continuity of approach.probably the

interplay

> of all these three planets is more a judicious attempt and

resolve

> both issues of religion and spirtualism.

> > Planets therefore attempt in holistic way for all that is good

and

> bad.Probably assessing capabilities of planets for specific

issues

> and limiting them is not a way in our vedic sciences and is also

> certainly not the objectivity of Astrology.

> > krishnan

> >

> > Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji> wrote:

> > Ashutosh ji,

> >

> > For a person who doesn't believe in God, your knowledge of Him

> > is excellent!

> >

> > I agree with most of your points. However, instead using

> > "religious" and "spiritual" I prefer the words "ritualistic" and

> > "religious"

> >

> > A ritualistic person follows religious injunctions - does

> > Sandyavandanam, goes to temples, etc.

> >

> > A religious person is concerned more about his love for God and

> > God's love for him.

> >

> > Of course, they are not mutually exclusive. Some may be both,

> > some only one. But, the religious person, the person who truly

> > loves God, is the best.

> >

> > You have studied my chart and mentioned about my spiritual

> > progress. Well, I am NOT ritualistic. I hate doing

> > sandyavandanam because I don't see it getting me closer to God.

> >

> > However, I love visiting temples because I find peace and feel

> > closer to Him.

> >

> > In my humble opinion, a truly religious person is one who can

> > actually cry when contemplating on God.

> >

> > One tear, shed by a true devotee, is far greater than all the

> > religious scriptures in the world.

> >

> > God can be realized to an extent through books, but experiencing

> > Him can only be done at a deeply personal level.

> >

> > In astrology, as you say, the graha Guru, while ensuring

> > conformance, doesn't enable divinity beyond a point. For this,

> > one has to seek out Ketu and Sani.

> >

> > So, one way of looking at it could be:

> >

> > Surya - The soul who must reach God

> > Chandra - The mind that must contemplate God

> > Budha - The intelligence that must probe and question truths

> > that lead one to God

> > Sukra - Pleasures, which one must realize stand in the way of

> > God realization

> > Kuja - Energy that keeps us motivated and anger that must be

> > shunned to reach God

> > Guru - Conformance, which one soon realizes only goes so far in

> > the quest for God

> > Sani - Vairagya, which is so esential for reaching God

> > Rahu - Materialism, which must be shunned for God realization

> > Ketu - The Moksha Karaka, who enables us to reach God

> >

> > Of course, this is just a personal opinion.

> >

> > This explains why Sani dislikes Chandra - Chandra seeks

> > pleasures, while Sani wants to dicipline him and teach him

> > renunciation!

> >

> > And also, the effects of Rahu and Ketu on Surya - the former

> > seeks to corrrupt the soul, but the later seeks to raise it to a

> > higher level!

> >

> > Also, the "great" Guru - well, he gets Uccha in Pushya, a

> > nakshatra owned by Sani, the graha of Vairagya!

> >

> > Vairagya means giving up. Guru must give up his insistence on

> > rituals if he has to realize God!

> >

> > BTW, earlier, you had said:

> >

> > <<<I have seen some other horoscopes of people born in

> > 1973 and having gemini lagna, ketu in lagna and jupiter in

> > eighth. Most of them are scholars, good with languages and very

> > interested in literature.>>>

> >

> > What of their religious beliefs? A study of this will be most

> > illuminating for me personally!

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Balaji

> >

> >

> > ~~~~~~~

> > Balaji Narasimhan * http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm

> > Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs

> > Editor, The Partial Art of Detection

> > ~~~~~~~

> >

> >

> >

> > __

> > Start your day with - make it your home page

> > http://www./r/hs

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND

RELISH

> THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Visit your group "" on the web.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND

RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

>

>

>

>

>

> --

----------

>

>

> a.. Visit your group "" on the web.

>

> b..

>

>

> c.. Terms

of Service.

>

>

> --

----------

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Dear Ashutosh,

my congratulations on writing such a fantastic piece.

regards

manoj

 

--- Astrologer Ashutosh <astrologerashutosh

wrote:

 

> Dear Kadrudra,

>

> Jupiter has too high a pedestal

> to know the travails of life. It does not represent

> justice, but only what it believes is justice

> according to the laws. Even terrorists and religious

> fanatics have very strong jupiter. Jupiter

> represents belief, not the fact.

>

> Belief does not and can never lead to

> anything near to Moksha. Only an understanding of

> realities of life and their acceptance leads one to

> the path of salvation. Reading a thousand scriptures

> cannot give that satisfaction to the soul which is

> got by feeding a hungry and needy man.

>

> Dharma is also a set of rules. Rules

> prescribing ways of life. When a Islamic extremist

> slits throat of a hostage, he firmly believes that

> he is doing his dharma. Suicide bombers also believe

> in their dharma. It is all matter of belief. And

> belief, again I emphasize, is made stronger by a

> strong jupiter.

>

> Jupiter and ketu have always combined to

> give rise to deadliest of religious fanaticism. Ketu

> is unemotional but very powerful. It gives jupiter

> its strength and jupiter does what it believes is

> the tradition.

>

> To realize the meaning of Moksha and effects

> of saturn-ketu, simple go to the Shamshan

> (crematorium) once a week. Look at the burning

> corpses and the relatives mourning the dead. There,

> all the rituals, all material gains, every ambition,

> seems useless.

>

>

> Jupiter has been overhyped as a benefic and

> a panacea for all cures. It is called "Jeev" in

> sanskrit, it gives life but takes it too.

>

> I Know a man who has venus-mars in libra in

> fifth and jupiter in sagittarius in seventh house.

> He has had physical relations with over a two

> hundred different women, call-girls and all. But,

> while getting married, he went for arranged

> marriage, emphasised on gotra and nadi dosha, etc.

> He is highly religious and a brahmin by caste, but

> every evening he finishes a bottle of whiskey before

> goind to bed.

>

> While there are some who have exalted

> jupiter in lagna, and they do not think twice before

> taking advantage of others.

>

>

>

> Why do we appreciate love-stories shown in

> movies and written in novels, but when it happens in

> our families, we treat love as biggest crime? We

> talk about having an equal world, but boast of our

> lineage, caste and religious superiority. We

> denounce discrimination, but we always discriminate.

>

> We do not care for our elderly, but spend

> thousands on their after-death rituals. How many of

> us are ready to adopt children instead of giving

> birth to one more kid? Saturn and mercury are

> responsible for adoptions, the best of human acts,

> not jupiter.

>

> We are concerned about society, relatives,

> religious persecution and what not, but are afraid

> to take one bold but right step.

>

> Jupiter binds, restricts, but saturn sets

> one free. A free mind is not gift of jupiter but

> saturn and ketu. And only a free mind can think

> rationally and in an unbiased way. Moksha has been

> derived from 'Mukta' meaning 'free'. How can a

> planet which binds and restricts the mind lead one

> to moksha?

>

>

> I do not and can not go blindly by what has

> been written in books. The life itself teaches a

> lot.

>

>

>

> Ashutosh

-

> kadrudra

>

> Saturday, August 20, 2005 07:29

> Re: - Religion, spirituality,

> Jupiter and Kethu

>

>

> Dear friends,

>

> Now a days, Nodes are getting very high importance

> in astrology

> mostly because of the fact that

> the classical texts mention less about them and

> that field perhaps

> unexplored in detail. In

> doing so, we need not weigh other planets lightly

> as each has always

> received a great importance

> even in classics and texts written afterwards. The

> ongoing debate on

> Jupiter-Kethu and the

> religious-spiritual matters is interesting and a

> few words about that:

>

> Religion is NOT equal to DHARMA, but is just an

> English

> representation. So when Jupiter

> is said to represent DHARMA, it is NOT JUST

> ritualism or procedure

> oriented activity.

> The DHARMA the first step to Artha, Kaama and

> Moksha. There can be

> salvation without religion BUT

> there can not be MOKSHA without DHARMA. Dharma is

> different from

> Pooja, Sandhyavandana, Japa or Tapa.

>

> Dharma is an abstract morality; for example,

> non-violence is dharma!

> (AHIMSA PARAMO DHARMAH)

> Can you achieve MOKSHA with violence?..is left to

> your perception!

> Truth speaking is a DHARMA,

> (satya vak), doing justice(Nyaaya) is a

> dharma...and list goes on.

> And THIS is the DHARMA that

> is represented by the Jupiter and not just Pooja

> or Yaj~na. No doubt

> Kethu represents Moksha

> or adhyatma, but if the native's DHARMA is weak

> and not strengthened

> by Jupiter, goal is not reached!

> So Jupiter is the requirement and Kethu is the

> implementation for any

> spiritual task.

>

> THAT is why, Jupiter is assigned with rulership of

> 9th(DHARMA) and

> 12th(MOKSHA) rashi in zodiac!

> Kethu is a tenant and just his position in MEENA

> is said make one

> seek his spiritual goal. See the blend here!

> Jupiter is the only planet which rules rashis

> having two RKSHA sandhi

> with Kethu stars - Moola and Ashwini -

> which are starting points!(Moola = origin, Ashwini

> = starting point

> of zodiac). So, there is no point in

> trying to differentiate between Jupiter and Kethu

> for spiritual

> purposes. They both are needed as

> requirement(Jupiter) and implementation(Kethu).

>

> yours humbly,

> KAD

, vattem

> krishnan

> <bursar_99> wrote:

> > Dear Asutosh ji and Bala ji,

> > The discussiontaking place made me also to

> interfere between both

> of you

> > In the role play of planets the atttempt being

> made may be to

> define:fineness of religion as well as

> spirtualityand ascribing the

> planetary nature to the Guru and Ketu and to

> extend for purpose of

> discipine role saturn too has to play in either

> case

> > basically a system of faith and worship is basic

> to religion and

> get absorbed in high thoughts is spirtuality.

> > The former is more of a personal preference and

> the later is more

> abstract in nature until it is realised that

> spirtualism

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Guest guest   

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Posted

Dear kadrudra,

 

Here we are not discussing the importance of jupiter and

dharma in daily life, but their role in achieving moksha as compared to ketu and

saturn.

 

Ashutosh

 

 

 

 

-

kadrudra

Saturday, August 20, 2005 15:37

Re: - Religion, spirituality, Jupiter and Kethu

 

 

Dear friend,

 

 

Only relevent lines quoted:

 

 

>>Even terrorists and religious fanatics have very strong

>>jupiter. Jupiter represents belief, not the fact.

 

Even RavaNa of Ramayana had very strong and good Jupiter, like Rama!

Charts of Bheema and Duryodhana from Mahabharata are alike! Were they

same?

Strong Jupiter means that the native is POTENT enough; whether he

implements it for good or bad

is subject to other influences in the chart and also his KARMA. So

why blame Jupiter?

Nuclear technology is not BAD, its use for destruction and its

possession in wrong hands is BAD!

So why blame nuclear technology?

 

>>Dharma is also a set of rules. Rules prescribing ways of life.

 

Dear astrologer! sorry! this is NOT so simple! Its importance is much

greater and

should have been understood when Krishna says "Dharma

Samshtapanaarthaya Sambhavaami yuge yuge"

(I will be born again and again in each Yuga to uphold DHARMA) in

Geeta.

 

>>When a Islamic extremist slits throat of a hostage, he firmly

believes that he is doing

>>his dharma. Suicide bombers also believe in their dharma. It is all

matter of

>>belief. And belief, again I emphasize, is made stronger by a strong

jupiter.

 

Do not confine it to Islam or any other sect; EXTREMISTS have no

dharma; theirs is a blind belief

based on excited and agitated state of mind and it is not due to

strong Jupiter. They are

called PATAKI or ADHARMI in sanskrit.

 

>>Jupiter and ketu have always combined to give rise to deadliest of

>>religious fanaticism. Ketu is unemotional but very powerful. It

gives jupiter

>>its strength and jupiter does what it believes is the tradition.

 

Yes, that should make one understand, how Kethu can divert Potency to

bad areas!

 

>>To realize the meaning of Moksha and effects of saturn-ketu, simple

go

>>to the Shamshan (crematorium) once a week. Look at the burning

corpses and the

>>relatives mourning the dead. There, all the rituals, all material

gains, every

>>ambition, seems useless.

 

Why not one go to spiritual or speeches(Pravachana) to understand the

same?

It is all how one thinks and which way he chooses! Whether one is

influenced

by his father's words or his burning pyre, he always struggles with

his brother for

the properties his father left(except a few)! And THAT is the life!

 

>>I Know a man who has venus-mars in libra in fifth and jupiter in

>>sagittarius in seventh house....etc

>>While there are some who have exalted jupiter in lagna, and they do

not

>>think twice before taking advantage of others.

 

I have many charts of the same combination, the natives of which are

living peacefully and happily without any problem you mentioned, most

of them

being spiritually good and balanced. (1972 Nov-Dec). One can not

create

astro-dicta on the basis a a few cases!

 

>>Jupiter binds, restricts, but saturn sets one free. A free mind is

not

>>gift of jupiter but saturn and ketu. And only a free mind can think

rationally

>>and in an unbiased way. Moksha has been derived from 'Mukta'

meaning 'free'. How

>>can a planet which binds and restricts the mind lead one to moksha?

 

Dharma is never binding, it is for our protection and that is why

DHARMO RAKSHATI RAKSHITAH.

(Dharma protects being protected). Imagine what happens in a busy

street if there are no traffic rules!

It is a burden for some! It does not mean that the rules are bad; nor

the rule maker.

 

>>I do not and can not go blindly by what has been written in books.

The

>>life itself teaches a lot.

 

Thats really good, but one's experience and experiment with life can

not be

generalized for the whole society! Let us be patient enough to learn

and understand from past too!

 

Hope my words are not offensive,

 

yours humbly

KAD

 

 

 

 

 

, "Astrologer Ashutosh"

<astrologerashutosh> wrote:

> Dear Kadrudra,

>

> Jupiter has too high a pedestal to know the

travails of life. It does not represent justice, but only what it

believes is justice according to the laws. Even terrorists and

religious fanatics have very strong jupiter. Jupiter represents

belief, not the fact.

>

> Belief does not and can never lead to anything near to

Moksha. Only an understanding of realities of life and their

acceptance leads one to the path of salvation. Reading a thousand

scriptures cannot give that satisfaction to the soul which is got by

feeding a hungry and needy man.

>

> Dharma is also a set of rules. Rules prescribing ways of

life. When a Islamic extremist slits throat of a hostage, he firmly

believes that he is doing his dharma. Suicide bombers also believe in

their dharma. It is all matter of belief. And belief, again I

emphasize, is made stronger by a strong jupiter.

>

> Jupiter and ketu have always combined to give rise to

deadliest of religious fanaticism. Ketu is unemotional but very

powerful. It gives jupiter its strength and jupiter does what it

believes is the tradition.

>

> To realize the meaning of Moksha and effects of saturn-

ketu, simple go to the Shamshan (crematorium) once a week. Look at

the burning corpses and the relatives mourning the dead. There, all

the rituals, all material gains, every ambition, seems useless.

>

>

> Jupiter has been overhyped as a benefic and a panacea for

all cures. It is called "Jeev" in sanskrit, it gives life but takes

it too.

>

> I Know a man who has venus-mars in libra in fifth and

jupiter in sagittarius in seventh house. He has had physical

relations with over a two hundred different women, call-girls and

all. But, while getting married, he went for arranged marriage,

emphasised on gotra and nadi dosha, etc. He is highly religious and a

brahmin by caste, but every evening he finishes a bottle of whiskey

before goind to bed.

>

> While there are some who have exalted jupiter in lagna, and

they do not think twice before taking advantage of others.

>

>

>

> Why do we appreciate love-stories shown in movies and

written in novels, but when it happens in our families, we treat love

as biggest crime? We talk about having an equal world, but boast of

our lineage, caste and religious superiority. We denounce

discrimination, but we always discriminate.

>

> We do not care for our elderly, but spend thousands on

their after-death rituals. How many of us are ready to adopt children

instead of giving birth to one more kid? Saturn and mercury are

responsible for adoptions, the best of human acts, not jupiter.

>

> We are concerned about society, relatives, religious

persecution and what not, but are afraid to take one bold but right

step.

>

> Jupiter binds, restricts, but saturn sets one free. A free

mind is not gift of jupiter but saturn and ketu. And only a free mind

can think rationally and in an unbiased way. Moksha has been derived

from 'Mukta' meaning 'free'. How can a planet which binds and

restricts the mind lead one to moksha?

>

>

> I do not and can not go blindly by what has been written in

books. The life itself teaches a lot.

>

>

>

> Ashutosh

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> kadrudra

>

> Saturday, August 20, 2005 07:29

> Re: - Religion, spirituality, Jupiter and Kethu

>

>

> Dear friends,

>

> Now a days, Nodes are getting very high importance in astrology

> mostly because of the fact that

> the classical texts mention less about them and that field

perhaps

> unexplored in detail. In

> doing so, we need not weigh other planets lightly as each has

always

> received a great importance

> even in classics and texts written afterwards. The ongoing debate

on

> Jupiter-Kethu and the

> religious-spiritual matters is interesting and a few words about

that:

>

> Religion is NOT equal to DHARMA, but is just an English

> representation. So when Jupiter

> is said to represent DHARMA, it is NOT JUST ritualism or

procedure

> oriented activity.

> The DHARMA the first step to Artha, Kaama and Moksha. There can

be

> salvation without religion BUT

> there can not be MOKSHA without DHARMA. Dharma is different from

> Pooja, Sandhyavandana, Japa or Tapa.

>

> Dharma is an abstract morality; for example, non-violence is

dharma!

> (AHIMSA PARAMO DHARMAH)

> Can you achieve MOKSHA with violence?..is left to your

perception!

> Truth speaking is a DHARMA,

> (satya vak), doing justice(Nyaaya) is a dharma...and list goes

on.

> And THIS is the DHARMA that

> is represented by the Jupiter and not just Pooja or Yaj~na. No

doubt

> Kethu represents Moksha

> or adhyatma, but if the native's DHARMA is weak and not

strengthened

> by Jupiter, goal is not reached!

> So Jupiter is the requirement and Kethu is the implementation for

any

> spiritual task.

>

> THAT is why, Jupiter is assigned with rulership of 9th(DHARMA)

and

> 12th(MOKSHA) rashi in zodiac!

> Kethu is a tenant and just his position in MEENA is said make one

> seek his spiritual goal. See the blend here!

> Jupiter is the only planet which rules rashis having two RKSHA

sandhi

> with Kethu stars - Moola and Ashwini -

> which are starting points!(Moola = origin, Ashwini = starting

point

> of zodiac). So, there is no point in

> trying to differentiate between Jupiter and Kethu for spiritual

> purposes. They both are needed as

> requirement(Jupiter) and implementation(Kethu).

>

> yours humbly,

> KAD

>

>

>

>

>

>

> , vattem krishnan

> <bursar_99> wrote:

> > Dear Asutosh ji and Bala ji,

> > The discussiontaking place made me also to interfere between

both

> of you

> > In the role play of planets the atttempt being made may be to

> define:fineness of religion as well as spirtualityand ascribing

the

> planetary nature to the Guru and Ketu and to extend for purpose

of

> discipine role saturn too has to play in either case

> > basically a system of faith and worship is basic to religion

and

> get absorbed in high thoughts is spirtuality.

> > The former is more of a personal preference and the later is

more

> abstract in nature until it is realised that spirtualism is

indeed a

> way of approach with specific ideals.

> > The rest of the indications normally shown and exhibited are

very

> common and usual in visiting temples to perform regularly

> Gayatrijapam.

> > Importance of these actions is more personal and are more in

the

> nature of beliefs.beyond this linking actions of personal nature

to

> Guru and view them as religious in nature only and doesn't enable

> divinity and excluding planet Guru and ascribe sprtual(beyond a

> point ) approach to ketu .Thus denying Guru the role of divinity

is

> too harsh and bring in Ketu as he does not have any

materialistic

> inclination is to deny continuity of approach.probably the

interplay

> of all these three planets is more a judicious attempt and

resolve

> both issues of religion and spirtualism.

> > Planets therefore attempt in holistic way for all that is good

and

> bad.Probably assessing capabilities of planets for specific

issues

> and limiting them is not a way in our vedic sciences and is also

> certainly not the objectivity of Astrology.

> > krishnan

> >

> > Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji> wrote:

> > Ashutosh ji,

> >

> > For a person who doesn't believe in God, your knowledge of Him

> > is excellent!

> >

> > I agree with most of your points. However, instead using

> > "religious" and "spiritual" I prefer the words "ritualistic" and

> > "religious"

> >

> > A ritualistic person follows religious injunctions - does

> > Sandyavandanam, goes to temples, etc.

> >

> > A religious person is concerned more about his love for God and

> > God's love for him.

> >

> > Of course, they are not mutually exclusive. Some may be both,

> > some only one. But, the religious person, the person who truly

> > loves God, is the best.

> >

> > You have studied my chart and mentioned about my spiritual

> > progress. Well, I am NOT ritualistic. I hate doing

> > sandyavandanam because I don't see it getting me closer to God.

> >

> > However, I love visiting temples because I find peace and feel

> > closer to Him.

> >

> > In my humble opinion, a truly religious person is one who can

> > actually cry when contemplating on God.

> >

> > One tear, shed by a true devotee, is far greater than all the

> > religious scriptures in the world.

> >

> > God can be realized to an extent through books, but experiencing

> > Him can only be done at a deeply personal level.

> >

> > In astrology, as you say, the graha Guru, while ensuring

> > conformance, doesn't enable divinity beyond a point. For this,

> > one has to seek out Ketu and Sani.

> >

> > So, one way of looking at it could be:

> >

> > Surya - The soul who must reach God

> > Chandra - The mind that must contemplate God

> > Budha - The intelligence that must probe and question truths

> > that lead one to God

> > Sukra - Pleasures, which one must realize stand in the way of

> > God realization

> > Kuja - Energy that keeps us motivated and anger that must be

> > shunned to reach God

> > Guru - Conformance, which one soon realizes only goes so far in

> > the quest for God

> > Sani - Vairagya, which is so esential for reaching God

> > Rahu - Materialism, which must be shunned for God realization

> > Ketu - The Moksha Karaka, who enables us to reach God

> >

> > Of course, this is just a personal opinion.

> >

> > This explains why Sani dislikes Chandra - Chandra seeks

> > pleasures, while Sani wants to dicipline him and teach him

> > renunciation!

> >

> > And also, the effects of Rahu and Ketu on Surya - the former

> > seeks to corrrupt the soul, but the later seeks to raise it to a

> > higher level!

> >

> > Also, the "great" Guru - well, he gets Uccha in Pushya, a

> > nakshatra owned by Sani, the graha of Vairagya!

> >

> > Vairagya means giving up. Guru must give up his insistence on

> > rituals if he has to realize God!

> >

> > BTW, earlier, you had said:

> >

> > <<<I have seen some other horoscopes of people born in

> > 1973 and having gemini lagna, ketu in lagna and jupiter in

> > eighth. Most of them are scholars, good with languages and very

> > interested in literature.>>>

> >

> > What of their religious beliefs? A study of this will be most

> > illuminating for me personally!

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Balaji

> >

> >

> > ~~~~~~~

> > Balaji Narasimhan * http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm

> > Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs

> > Editor, The Partial Art of Detection

> > ~~~~~~~

> >

> >

> >

> > __

> > Start your day with - make it your home page

> > http://www./r/hs

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND

RELISH

> THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Visit your group "" on the web.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND

RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

>

>

>

>

>

> --

----------

>

>

> a.. Visit your group "" on the web.

>

> b..

>

>

> c.. Terms

of Service.

>

>

> --

----------

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE

OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

 

 

 

 

 

Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software

 

 

 

 

a.. Visit your group "" on the web.

 

b..

 

c..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted

Dear friend,

 

My stand has been always clear:

 

I do not overweigh any planet as karaka or significator of Moksha.

Every planet has its own role to play in a chart wrt MOKSHA. As I

said earlier too, Jupiter is the requirement or the potency and

Kethu is implementation and Saturn is the practical bridge of

PATIENCE and ENDURANCE required to achieve MOKSHA being a MARTYA(a

terrestrial life).

 

But you are free to have your own opinion!

 

yours

KAD

 

 

 

, "Astrologer Ashutosh"

<astrologerashutosh> wrote:

> Dear kadrudra,

>

> Here we are not discussing the importance of

jupiter and dharma in daily life, but their role in achieving moksha

as compared to ketu and saturn.

>

> Ashutosh

>

>

 

>

>

> -

> kadrudra

>

> Saturday, August 20, 2005 15:37

> Re: - Religion, spirituality, Jupiter and Kethu

>

>

> Dear friend,

>

>

> Only relevent lines quoted:

>

>

> >>Even terrorists and religious fanatics have very strong

> >>jupiter. Jupiter represents belief, not the fact.

>

> Even RavaNa of Ramayana had very strong and good Jupiter, like

Rama!

> Charts of Bheema and Duryodhana from Mahabharata are alike! Were

they

> same?

> Strong Jupiter means that the native is POTENT enough; whether

he

> implements it for good or bad

> is subject to other influences in the chart and also his KARMA.

So

> why blame Jupiter?

> Nuclear technology is not BAD, its use for destruction and its

> possession in wrong hands is BAD!

> So why blame nuclear technology?

>

> >>Dharma is also a set of rules. Rules prescribing ways of life.

>

> Dear astrologer! sorry! this is NOT so simple! Its importance is

much

> greater and

> should have been understood when Krishna says "Dharma

> Samshtapanaarthaya Sambhavaami yuge yuge"

> (I will be born again and again in each Yuga to uphold DHARMA)

in

> Geeta.

>

> >>When a Islamic extremist slits throat of a hostage, he firmly

> believes that he is doing

> >>his dharma. Suicide bombers also believe in their dharma. It

is all

> matter of

> >>belief. And belief, again I emphasize, is made stronger by a

strong

> jupiter.

>

> Do not confine it to Islam or any other sect; EXTREMISTS have no

> dharma; theirs is a blind belief

> based on excited and agitated state of mind and it is not due to

> strong Jupiter. They are

> called PATAKI or ADHARMI in sanskrit.

>

> >>Jupiter and ketu have always combined to give rise to

deadliest of

> >>religious fanaticism. Ketu is unemotional but very powerful.

It

> gives jupiter

> >>its strength and jupiter does what it believes is the

tradition.

>

> Yes, that should make one understand, how Kethu can divert

Potency to

> bad areas!

>

> >>To realize the meaning of Moksha and effects of saturn-ketu,

simple

> go

> >>to the Shamshan (crematorium) once a week. Look at the burning

> corpses and the

> >>relatives mourning the dead. There, all the rituals, all

material

> gains, every

> >>ambition, seems useless.

>

> Why not one go to spiritual or speeches(Pravachana) to

understand the

> same?

> It is all how one thinks and which way he chooses! Whether one

is

> influenced

> by his father's words or his burning pyre, he always struggles

with

> his brother for

> the properties his father left(except a few)! And THAT is the

life!

>

> >>I Know a man who has venus-mars in libra in fifth and jupiter

in

> >>sagittarius in seventh house....etc

> >>While there are some who have exalted jupiter in lagna, and

they do

> not

> >>think twice before taking advantage of others.

>

> I have many charts of the same combination, the natives of which

are

> living peacefully and happily without any problem you mentioned,

most

> of them

> being spiritually good and balanced. (1972 Nov-Dec). One can not

> create

> astro-dicta on the basis a a few cases!

>

> >>Jupiter binds, restricts, but saturn sets one free. A free

mind is

> not

> >>gift of jupiter but saturn and ketu. And only a free mind can

think

> rationally

> >>and in an unbiased way. Moksha has been derived from 'Mukta'

> meaning 'free'. How

> >>can a planet which binds and restricts the mind lead one to

moksha?

>

> Dharma is never binding, it is for our protection and that is

why

> DHARMO RAKSHATI RAKSHITAH.

> (Dharma protects being protected). Imagine what happens in a

busy

> street if there are no traffic rules!

> It is a burden for some! It does not mean that the rules are

bad; nor

> the rule maker.

>

> >>I do not and can not go blindly by what has been written in

books.

> The

> >>life itself teaches a lot.

>

> Thats really good, but one's experience and experiment with life

can

> not be

> generalized for the whole society! Let us be patient enough to

learn

> and understand from past too!

>

> Hope my words are not offensive,

>

> yours humbly

> KAD

>

>

>

>

>

> , "Astrologer Ashutosh"

> <astrologerashutosh> wrote:

> > Dear Kadrudra,

> >

> > Jupiter has too high a pedestal to know

the

> travails of life. It does not represent justice, but only what

it

> believes is justice according to the laws. Even terrorists and

> religious fanatics have very strong jupiter. Jupiter represents

> belief, not the fact.

> >

> > Belief does not and can never lead to anything near to

> Moksha. Only an understanding of realities of life and their

> acceptance leads one to the path of salvation. Reading a

thousand

> scriptures cannot give that satisfaction to the soul which is

got by

> feeding a hungry and needy man.

> >

> > Dharma is also a set of rules. Rules prescribing ways

of

> life. When a Islamic extremist slits throat of a hostage, he

firmly

> believes that he is doing his dharma. Suicide bombers also

believe in

> their dharma. It is all matter of belief. And belief, again I

> emphasize, is made stronger by a strong jupiter.

> >

> > Jupiter and ketu have always combined to give rise to

> deadliest of religious fanaticism. Ketu is unemotional but very

> powerful. It gives jupiter its strength and jupiter does what it

> believes is the tradition.

> >

> > To realize the meaning of Moksha and effects of saturn-

> ketu, simple go to the Shamshan (crematorium) once a week. Look

at

> the burning corpses and the relatives mourning the dead. There,

all

> the rituals, all material gains, every ambition, seems useless.

> >

> >

> > Jupiter has been overhyped as a benefic and a panacea

for

> all cures. It is called "Jeev" in sanskrit, it gives life but

takes

> it too.

> >

> > I Know a man who has venus-mars in libra in fifth and

> jupiter in sagittarius in seventh house. He has had physical

> relations with over a two hundred different women, call-girls

and

> all. But, while getting married, he went for arranged marriage,

> emphasised on gotra and nadi dosha, etc. He is highly religious

and a

> brahmin by caste, but every evening he finishes a bottle of

whiskey

> before goind to bed.

> >

> > While there are some who have exalted jupiter in

lagna, and

> they do not think twice before taking advantage of others.

> >

> >

> >

> > Why do we appreciate love-stories shown in movies and

> written in novels, but when it happens in our families, we treat

love

> as biggest crime? We talk about having an equal world, but boast

of

> our lineage, caste and religious superiority. We denounce

> discrimination, but we always discriminate.

> >

> > We do not care for our elderly, but spend thousands on

> their after-death rituals. How many of us are ready to adopt

children

> instead of giving birth to one more kid? Saturn and mercury are

> responsible for adoptions, the best of human acts, not jupiter.

> >

> > We are concerned about society, relatives, religious

> persecution and what not, but are afraid to take one bold but

right

> step.

> >

> > Jupiter binds, restricts, but saturn sets one free. A

free

> mind is not gift of jupiter but saturn and ketu. And only a free

mind

> can think rationally and in an unbiased way. Moksha has been

derived

> from 'Mukta' meaning 'free'. How can a planet which binds and

> restricts the mind lead one to moksha?

> >

> >

> > I do not and can not go blindly by what has been

written in

> books. The life itself teaches a lot.

> >

> >

> >

> > Ashutosh

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > kadrudra

> >

> > Saturday, August 20, 2005 07:29

> > Re: - Religion, spirituality, Jupiter and Kethu

> >

> >

> > Dear friends,

> >

> > Now a days, Nodes are getting very high importance in

astrology

> > mostly because of the fact that

> > the classical texts mention less about them and that field

> perhaps

> > unexplored in detail. In

> > doing so, we need not weigh other planets lightly as each

has

> always

> > received a great importance

> > even in classics and texts written afterwards. The ongoing

debate

> on

> > Jupiter-Kethu and the

> > religious-spiritual matters is interesting and a few words

about

> that:

> >

> > Religion is NOT equal to DHARMA, but is just an English

> > representation. So when Jupiter

> > is said to represent DHARMA, it is NOT JUST ritualism or

> procedure

> > oriented activity.

> > The DHARMA the first step to Artha, Kaama and Moksha. There

can

> be

> > salvation without religion BUT

> > there can not be MOKSHA without DHARMA. Dharma is different

from

> > Pooja, Sandhyavandana, Japa or Tapa.

> >

> > Dharma is an abstract morality; for example, non-violence is

> dharma!

> > (AHIMSA PARAMO DHARMAH)

> > Can you achieve MOKSHA with violence?..is left to your

> perception!

> > Truth speaking is a DHARMA,

> > (satya vak), doing justice(Nyaaya) is a dharma...and list

goes

> on.

> > And THIS is the DHARMA that

> > is represented by the Jupiter and not just Pooja or Yaj~na.

No

> doubt

> > Kethu represents Moksha

> > or adhyatma, but if the native's DHARMA is weak and not

> strengthened

> > by Jupiter, goal is not reached!

> > So Jupiter is the requirement and Kethu is the

implementation for

> any

> > spiritual task.

> >

> > THAT is why, Jupiter is assigned with rulership of 9th

(DHARMA)

> and

> > 12th(MOKSHA) rashi in zodiac!

> > Kethu is a tenant and just his position in MEENA is said

make one

> > seek his spiritual goal. See the blend here!

> > Jupiter is the only planet which rules rashis having two

RKSHA

> sandhi

> > with Kethu stars - Moola and Ashwini -

> > which are starting points!(Moola = origin, Ashwini =

starting

> point

> > of zodiac). So, there is no point in

> > trying to differentiate between Jupiter and Kethu for

spiritual

> > purposes. They both are needed as

> > requirement(Jupiter) and implementation(Kethu).

> >

> > yours humbly,

> > KAD

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , vattem krishnan

> > <bursar_99> wrote:

> > > Dear Asutosh ji and Bala ji,

> > > The discussiontaking place made me also to interfere

between

> both

> > of you

> > > In the role play of planets the atttempt being made may

be to

> > define:fineness of religion as well as spirtualityand

ascribing

> the

> > planetary nature to the Guru and Ketu and to extend for

purpose

> of

> > discipine role saturn too has to play in either case

> > > basically a system of faith and worship is basic to

religion

> and

> > get absorbed in high thoughts is spirtuality.

> > > The former is more of a personal preference and the later

is

> more

> > abstract in nature until it is realised that spirtualism is

> indeed a

> > way of approach with specific ideals.

> > > The rest of the indications normally shown and exhibited

are

> very

> > common and usual in visiting temples to perform regularly

> > Gayatrijapam.

> > > Importance of these actions is more personal and are more

in

> the

> > nature of beliefs.beyond this linking actions of personal

nature

> to

> > Guru and view them as religious in nature only and doesn't

enable

> > divinity and excluding planet Guru and ascribe sprtual

(beyond a

> > point ) approach to ketu .Thus denying Guru the role of

divinity

> is

> > too harsh and bring in Ketu as he does not have any

> materialistic

> > inclination is to deny continuity of approach.probably the

> interplay

> > of all these three planets is more a judicious attempt and

> resolve

> > both issues of religion and spirtualism.

> > > Planets therefore attempt in holistic way for all that is

good

> and

> > bad.Probably assessing capabilities of planets for specific

> issues

> > and limiting them is not a way in our vedic sciences and is

also

> > certainly not the objectivity of Astrology.

> > > krishnan

> > >

> > > Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji> wrote:

> > > Ashutosh ji,

> > >

> > > For a person who doesn't believe in God, your knowledge of

Him

> > > is excellent!

> > >

> > > I agree with most of your points. However, instead using

> > > "religious" and "spiritual" I prefer the

words "ritualistic" and

> > > "religious"

> > >

> > > A ritualistic person follows religious injunctions - does

> > > Sandyavandanam, goes to temples, etc.

> > >

> > > A religious person is concerned more about his love for

God and

> > > God's love for him.

> > >

> > > Of course, they are not mutually exclusive. Some may be

both,

> > > some only one. But, the religious person, the person who

truly

> > > loves God, is the best.

> > >

> > > You have studied my chart and mentioned about my spiritual

> > > progress. Well, I am NOT ritualistic. I hate doing

> > > sandyavandanam because I don't see it getting me closer to

God.

> > >

> > > However, I love visiting temples because I find peace and

feel

> > > closer to Him.

> > >

> > > In my humble opinion, a truly religious person is one who

can

> > > actually cry when contemplating on God.

> > >

> > > One tear, shed by a true devotee, is far greater than all

the

> > > religious scriptures in the world.

> > >

> > > God can be realized to an extent through books, but

experiencing

> > > Him can only be done at a deeply personal level.

> > >

> > > In astrology, as you say, the graha Guru, while ensuring

> > > conformance, doesn't enable divinity beyond a point. For

this,

> > > one has to seek out Ketu and Sani.

> > >

> > > So, one way of looking at it could be:

> > >

> > > Surya - The soul who must reach God

> > > Chandra - The mind that must contemplate God

> > > Budha - The intelligence that must probe and question

truths

> > > that lead one to God

> > > Sukra - Pleasures, which one must realize stand in the way

of

> > > God realization

> > > Kuja - Energy that keeps us motivated and anger that must

be

> > > shunned to reach God

> > > Guru - Conformance, which one soon realizes only goes so

far in

> > > the quest for God

> > > Sani - Vairagya, which is so esential for reaching God

> > > Rahu - Materialism, which must be shunned for God

realization

> > > Ketu - The Moksha Karaka, who enables us to reach God

> > >

> > > Of course, this is just a personal opinion.

> > >

> > > This explains why Sani dislikes Chandra - Chandra seeks

> > > pleasures, while Sani wants to dicipline him and teach him

> > > renunciation!

> > >

> > > And also, the effects of Rahu and Ketu on Surya - the

former

> > > seeks to corrrupt the soul, but the later seeks to raise

it to a

> > > higher level!

> > >

> > > Also, the "great" Guru - well, he gets Uccha in Pushya, a

> > > nakshatra owned by Sani, the graha of Vairagya!

> > >

> > > Vairagya means giving up. Guru must give up his insistence

on

> > > rituals if he has to realize God!

> > >

> > > BTW, earlier, you had said:

> > >

> > > <<<I have seen some other horoscopes of people born in

> > > 1973 and having gemini lagna, ketu in lagna and jupiter in

> > > eighth. Most of them are scholars, good with languages and

very

> > > interested in literature.>>>

> > >

> > > What of their religious beliefs? A study of this will be

most

> > > illuminating for me personally!

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Balaji

> > >

> > >

> > > ~~~~~~~

> > > Balaji Narasimhan * http://www.sherlock-

holmes.com/balaji.htm

> > > Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs

> > > Editor, The Partial Art of Detection

> > > ~~~~~~~

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __

> > > Start your day with - make it your home page

> > > http://www./r/hs

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY

AND

> RELISH

> > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Visit your group "" on the web.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

Terms of

> > Service.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

around

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND

> RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

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> ----------

> >

> >

> > a.. Visit your group "" on the web.

> >

> > b..

> >

> >

> > c..

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> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

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> ----------

> >

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> >

> >

> >

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RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

>

>

>

>

>

> Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology

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Looks un ambiguous and appropriate in terms of Astrology

 

kadrudra <kadrudra wrote:Dear friend,

 

My stand has been always clear:

 

I do not overweigh any planet as karaka or significator of Moksha.

Every planet has its own role to play in a chart wrt MOKSHA. As I

said earlier too, Jupiter is the requirement or the potency and

Kethu is implementation and Saturn is the practical bridge of

PATIENCE and ENDURANCE required to achieve MOKSHA being a MARTYA(a

terrestrial life).

 

But you are free to have your own opinion!

 

yours

KAD

 

 

 

, "Astrologer Ashutosh"

<astrologerashutosh> wrote:

> Dear kadrudra,

>

> Here we are not discussing the importance of

jupiter and dharma in daily life, but their role in achieving moksha

as compared to ketu and saturn.

>

> Ashutosh

>

>

 

>

>

> -

> kadrudra

>

> Saturday, August 20, 2005 15:37

> Re: - Religion, spirituality, Jupiter and Kethu

>

>

> Dear friend,

>

>

> Only relevent lines quoted:

>

>

> >>Even terrorists and religious fanatics have very strong

> >>jupiter. Jupiter represents belief, not the fact.

>

> Even RavaNa of Ramayana had very strong and good Jupiter, like

Rama!

> Charts of Bheema and Duryodhana from Mahabharata are alike! Were

they

> same?

> Strong Jupiter means that the native is POTENT enough; whether

he

> implements it for good or bad

> is subject to other influences in the chart and also his KARMA.

So

> why blame Jupiter?

> Nuclear technology is not BAD, its use for destruction and its

> possession in wrong hands is BAD!

> So why blame nuclear technology?

>

> >>Dharma is also a set of rules. Rules prescribing ways of life.

>

> Dear astrologer! sorry! this is NOT so simple! Its importance is

much

> greater and

> should have been understood when Krishna says "Dharma

> Samshtapanaarthaya Sambhavaami yuge yuge"

> (I will be born again and again in each Yuga to uphold DHARMA)

in

> Geeta.

>

> >>When a Islamic extremist slits throat of a hostage, he firmly

> believes that he is doing

> >>his dharma. Suicide bombers also believe in their dharma. It

is all

> matter of

> >>belief. And belief, again I emphasize, is made stronger by a

strong

> jupiter.

>

> Do not confine it to Islam or any other sect; EXTREMISTS have no

> dharma; theirs is a blind belief

> based on excited and agitated state of mind and it is not due to

> strong Jupiter. They are

> called PATAKI or ADHARMI in sanskrit.

>

> >>Jupiter and ketu have always combined to give rise to

deadliest of

> >>religious fanaticism. Ketu is unemotional but very powerful.

It

> gives jupiter

> >>its strength and jupiter does what it believes is the

tradition.

>

> Yes, that should make one understand, how Kethu can divert

Potency to

> bad areas!

>

> >>To realize the meaning of Moksha and effects of saturn-ketu,

simple

> go

> >>to the Shamshan (crematorium) once a week. Look at the burning

> corpses and the

> >>relatives mourning the dead. There, all the rituals, all

material

> gains, every

> >>ambition, seems useless.

>

> Why not one go to spiritual or speeches(Pravachana) to

understand the

> same?

> It is all how one thinks and which way he chooses! Whether one

is

> influenced

> by his father's words or his burning pyre, he always struggles

with

> his brother for

> the properties his father left(except a few)! And THAT is the

life!

>

> >>I Know a man who has venus-mars in libra in fifth and jupiter

in

> >>sagittarius in seventh house....etc

> >>While there are some who have exalted jupiter in lagna, and

they do

> not

> >>think twice before taking advantage of others.

>

> I have many charts of the same combination, the natives of which

are

> living peacefully and happily without any problem you mentioned,

most

> of them

> being spiritually good and balanced. (1972 Nov-Dec). One can not

> create

> astro-dicta on the basis a a few cases!

>

> >>Jupiter binds, restricts, but saturn sets one free. A free

mind is

> not

> >>gift of jupiter but saturn and ketu. And only a free mind can

think

> rationally

> >>and in an unbiased way. Moksha has been derived from 'Mukta'

> meaning 'free'. How

> >>can a planet which binds and restricts the mind lead one to

moksha?

>

> Dharma is never binding, it is for our protection and that is

why

> DHARMO RAKSHATI RAKSHITAH.

> (Dharma protects being protected). Imagine what happens in a

busy

> street if there are no traffic rules!

> It is a burden for some! It does not mean that the rules are

bad; nor

> the rule maker.

>

> >>I do not and can not go blindly by what has been written in

books.

> The

> >>life itself teaches a lot.

>

> Thats really good, but one's experience and experiment with life

can

> not be

> generalized for the whole society! Let us be patient enough to

learn

> and understand from past too!

>

> Hope my words are not offensive,

>

> yours humbly

> KAD

>

>

>

>

>

> , "Astrologer Ashutosh"

> <astrologerashutosh> wrote:

> > Dear Kadrudra,

> >

> > Jupiter has too high a pedestal to know

the

> travails of life. It does not represent justice, but only what

it

> believes is justice according to the laws. Even terrorists and

> religious fanatics have very strong jupiter. Jupiter represents

> belief, not the fact.

> >

> > Belief does not and can never lead to anything near to

> Moksha. Only an understanding of realities of life and their

> acceptance leads one to the path of salvation. Reading a

thousand

> scriptures cannot give that satisfaction to the soul which is

got by

> feeding a hungry and needy man.

> >

> > Dharma is also a set of rules. Rules prescribing ways

of

> life. When a Islamic extremist slits throat of a hostage, he

firmly

> believes that he is doing his dharma. Suicide bombers also

believe in

> their dharma. It is all matter of belief. And belief, again I

> emphasize, is made stronger by a strong jupiter.

> >

> > Jupiter and ketu have always combined to give rise to

> deadliest of religious fanaticism. Ketu is unemotional but very

> powerful. It gives jupiter its strength and jupiter does what it

> believes is the tradition.

> >

> > To realize the meaning of Moksha and effects of saturn-

> ketu, simple go to the Shamshan (crematorium) once a week. Look

at

> the burning corpses and the relatives mourning the dead. There,

all

> the rituals, all material gains, every ambition, seems useless.

> >

> >

> > Jupiter has been overhyped as a benefic and a panacea

for

> all cures. It is called "Jeev" in sanskrit, it gives life but

takes

> it too.

> >

> > I Know a man who has venus-mars in libra in fifth and

> jupiter in sagittarius in seventh house. He has had physical

> relations with over a two hundred different women, call-girls

and

> all. But, while getting married, he went for arranged marriage,

> emphasised on gotra and nadi dosha, etc. He is highly religious

and a

> brahmin by caste, but every evening he finishes a bottle of

whiskey

> before goind to bed.

> >

> > While there are some who have exalted jupiter in

lagna, and

> they do not think twice before taking advantage of others.

> >

> >

> >

> > Why do we appreciate love-stories shown in movies and

> written in novels, but when it happens in our families, we treat

love

> as biggest crime? We talk about having an equal world, but boast

of

> our lineage, caste and religious superiority. We denounce

> discrimination, but we always discriminate.

> >

> > We do not care for our elderly, but spend thousands on

> their after-death rituals. How many of us are ready to adopt

children

> instead of giving birth to one more kid? Saturn and mercury are

> responsible for adoptions, the best of human acts, not jupiter.

> >

> > We are concerned about society, relatives, religious

> persecution and what not, but are afraid to take one bold but

right

> step.

> >

> > Jupiter binds, restricts, but saturn sets one free. A

free

> mind is not gift of jupiter but saturn and ketu. And only a free

mind

> can think rationally and in an unbiased way. Moksha has been

derived

> from 'Mukta' meaning 'free'. How can a planet which binds and

> restricts the mind lead one to moksha?

> >

> >

> > I do not and can not go blindly by what has been

written in

> books. The life itself teaches a lot.

> >

> >

> >

> > Ashutosh

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > kadrudra

> >

> > Saturday, August 20, 2005 07:29

> > Re: - Religion, spirituality, Jupiter and Kethu

> >

> >

> > Dear friends,

> >

> > Now a days, Nodes are getting very high importance in

astrology

> > mostly because of the fact that

> > the classical texts mention less about them and that field

> perhaps

> > unexplored in detail. In

> > doing so, we need not weigh other planets lightly as each

has

> always

> > received a great importance

> > even in classics and texts written afterwards. The ongoing

debate

> on

> > Jupiter-Kethu and the

> > religious-spiritual matters is interesting and a few words

about

> that:

> >

> > Religion is NOT equal to DHARMA, but is just an English

> > representation. So when Jupiter

> > is said to represent DHARMA, it is NOT JUST ritualism or

> procedure

> > oriented activity.

> > The DHARMA the first step to Artha, Kaama and Moksha. There

can

> be

> > salvation without religion BUT

> > there can not be MOKSHA without DHARMA. Dharma is different

from

> > Pooja, Sandhyavandana, Japa or Tapa.

> >

> > Dharma is an abstract morality; for example, non-violence is

> dharma!

> > (AHIMSA PARAMO DHARMAH)

> > Can you achieve MOKSHA with violence?..is left to your

> perception!

> > Truth speaking is a DHARMA,

> > (satya vak), doing justice(Nyaaya) is a dharma...and list

goes

> on.

> > And THIS is the DHARMA that

> > is represented by the Jupiter and not just Pooja or Yaj~na.

No

> doubt

> > Kethu represents Moksha

> > or adhyatma, but if the native's DHARMA is weak and not

> strengthened

> > by Jupiter, goal is not reached!

> > So Jupiter is the requirement and Kethu is the

implementation for

> any

> > spiritual task.

> >

> > THAT is why, Jupiter is assigned with rulership of 9th

(DHARMA)

> and

> > 12th(MOKSHA) rashi in zodiac!

> > Kethu is a tenant and just his position in MEENA is said

make one

> > seek his spiritual goal. See the blend here!

> > Jupiter is the only planet which rules rashis having two

RKSHA

> sandhi

> > with Kethu stars - Moola and Ashwini -

> > which are starting points!(Moola = origin, Ashwini =

starting

> point

> > of zodiac). So, there is no point in

> > trying to differentiate between Jupiter and Kethu for

spiritual

> > purposes. They both are needed as

> > requirement(Jupiter) and implementation(Kethu).

> >

> > yours humbly,

> > KAD

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , vattem krishnan

> > <bursar_99> wrote:

> > > Dear Asutosh ji and Bala ji,

> > > The discussiontaking place made me also to interfere

between

> both

> > of you

> > > In the role play of planets the atttempt being made may

be to

> > define:fineness of religion as well as spirtualityand

ascribing

> the

> > planetary nature to the Guru and Ketu and to extend for

purpose

> of

> > discipine role saturn too has to play in either case

> > > basically a system of faith and worship is basic to

religion

> and

> > get absorbed in high thoughts is spirtuality.

> > > The former is more of a personal preference and the later

is

> more

> > abstract in nature until it is realised that spirtualism is

> indeed a

> > way of approach with specific ideals.

> > > The rest of the indications normally shown and exhibited

are

> very

> > common and usual in visiting temples to perform regularly

> > Gayatrijapam.

> > > Importance of these actions is more personal and are more

in

> the

> > nature of beliefs.beyond this linking actions of personal

nature

> to

> > Guru and view them as religious in nature only and doesn't

enable

> > divinity and excluding planet Guru and ascribe sprtual

(beyond a

> > point ) approach to ketu .Thus denying Guru the role of

divinity

> is

> > too harsh and bring in Ketu as he does not have any

> materialistic

> > inclination is to deny continuity of approach.probably the

> interplay

> > of all these three planets is more a judicious attempt and

> resolve

> > both issues of religion and spirtualism.

> > > Planets therefore attempt in holistic way for all that is

good

> and

> > bad.Probably assessing capabilities of planets for specific

> issues

> > and limiting them is not a way in our vedic sciences and is

also

> > certainly not the objectivity of Astrology.

> > > krishnan

> > >

> > > Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji> wrote:

> > > Ashutosh ji,

> > >

> > > For a person who doesn't believe in God, your knowledge of

Him

> > > is excellent!

> > >

> > > I agree with most of your points. However, instead using

> > > "religious" and "spiritual" I prefer the

words "ritualistic" and

> > > "religious"

> > >

> > > A ritualistic person follows religious injunctions - does

> > > Sandyavandanam, goes to temples, etc.

> > >

> > > A religious person is concerned more about his love for

God and

> > > God's love for him.

> > >

> > > Of course, they are not mutually exclusive. Some may be

both,

> > > some only one. But, the religious person, the person who

truly

> > > loves God, is the best.

> > >

> > > You have studied my chart and mentioned about my spiritual

> > > progress. Well, I am NOT ritualistic. I hate doing

> > > sandyavandanam because I don't see it getting me closer to

God.

> > >

> > > However, I love visiting temples because I find peace and

feel

> > > closer to Him.

> > >

> > > In my humble opinion, a truly religious person is one who

can

> > > actually cry when contemplating on God.

> > >

> > > One tear, shed by a true devotee, is far greater than all

the

> > > religious scriptures in the world.

> > >

> > > God can be realized to an extent through books, but

experiencing

> > > Him can only be done at a deeply personal level.

> > >

> > > In astrology, as you say, the graha Guru, while ensuring

> > > conformance, doesn't enable divinity beyond a point. For

this,

> > > one has to seek out Ketu and Sani.

> > >

> > > So, one way of looking at it could be:

> > >

> > > Surya - The soul who must reach God

> > > Chandra - The mind that must contemplate God

> > > Budha - The intelligence that must probe and question

truths

> > > that lead one to God

> > > Sukra - Pleasures, which one must realize stand in the way

of

> > > God realization

> > > Kuja - Energy that keeps us motivated and anger that must

be

> > > shunned to reach God

> > > Guru - Conformance, which one soon realizes only goes so

far in

> > > the quest for God

> > > Sani - Vairagya, which is so esential for reaching God

> > > Rahu - Materialism, which must be shunned for God

realization

> > > Ketu - The Moksha Karaka, who enables us to reach God

> > >

> > > Of course, this is just a personal opinion.

> > >

> > > This explains why Sani dislikes Chandra - Chandra seeks

> > > pleasures, while Sani wants to dicipline him and teach him

> > > renunciation!

> > >

> > > And also, the effects of Rahu and Ketu on Surya - the

former

> > > seeks to corrrupt the soul, but the later seeks to raise

it to a

> > > higher level!

> > >

> > > Also, the "great" Guru - well, he gets Uccha in Pushya, a

> > > nakshatra owned by Sani, the graha of Vairagya!

> > >

> > > Vairagya means giving up. Guru must give up his insistence

on

> > > rituals if he has to realize God!

> > >

> > > BTW, earlier, you had said:

> > >

> > > <<<I have seen some other horoscopes of people born in

> > > 1973 and having gemini lagna, ketu in lagna and jupiter in

> > > eighth. Most of them are scholars, good with languages and

very

> > > interested in literature.>>>

> > >

> > > What of their religious beliefs? A study of this will be

most

> > > illuminating for me personally!

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Balaji

> > >

> > >

> > > ~~~~~~~

> > > Balaji Narasimhan * http://www.sherlock-

holmes.com/balaji.htm

> > > Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs

> > > Editor, The Partial Art of Detection

> > > ~~~~~~~

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __

> > > Start your day with - make it your home page

> > > http://www./r/hs

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY

AND

> RELISH

> > THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Visit your group "" on the web.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

Terms of

> > Service.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

around

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND

> RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

-----

> ----------

> >

> >

> > a.. Visit your group "" on the web.

> >

> > b..

> >

> >

> > c..

Terms

> of Service.

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

-----

> ----------

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND

RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

>

>

>

>

>

> Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology

software

>

>

> -

-----------

>

>

> a.. Visit your group "" on the web.

>

> b..

>

>

> c.. Terms

of Service.

>

>

> -

-----------

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF

ABSOLUTE BLISS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software

 

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "" on the web.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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