Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 In reading all the posts about being upset with the "ins", and others who seem to get to be with Amma more, or whatever, it reminds me of how often I see things a certain way because of my perceptions of the world. What I've discovered for myself, in being around Amma, is that most of what I see is a projection. Someone may look at me a certain way, and I draw all kinds of conclusions about it - they're a jerk, they have problems, they're angry, I must have done something wrong, they think they're better than me, whatever. Most of the time, when I have the rare opportunity to find out if my perception is true, I've found out I was wrong. It's been incredibly humbling for me. Perhaps we can keep this in mind when we see these things happening around us. If someone is walking to the front of the line, we really don't why. Does it serve us to get angry, and think, hey, why are they so special? Maybe they were turned away for darshan the night before, after waiting all night long. We have no idea. Maybe people who are ill are waiting til the end of the program to receive their darshan, because Amma has more time then - perhaps they aren't being overlooked. There's a paralyzed man that I see every year at the San Ramon ashram who receives his darshan the very last - and it's tremendously special. It always helps me to remind myself, "I don't know what is really going on here, or who these people are, or what the circumstances - who am I to judge, or to get angry?" Then I can remember to focus on myself and my own growth, rather than spend my time obsessing and ruminating (Oh, I've done it soooo many times!) over something that may not even be reality. I try to focus on trusting Amma. I'm not so good at it yet, but this is what I've learned, and it's my 2 cents, for what it's worth. Blessings, Achintya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 Also, what¹s the big fuss about the line? Are people in a hurry to get through it so they can go to a movie? Seems to me the whole Amma experience is one of hanging around the whole time, soaking up the bliss. What¹s the big rush? (Unless of course, you have a squirmy 2-year-old.) > In reading all the posts about being upset with the "ins", > and others who seem to get to be with Amma more, or > whatever, it reminds me of how often I see things a > certain way because of my perceptions of the world. > What I've discovered for myself, in being around Amma, > is that most of what I see is a projection. Someone may > look at me a certain way, and I draw all kinds of > conclusions about it - they're a jerk, they have problems, > they're angry, I must have done something wrong, they > think they're better than me, whatever. Most of the time, > when I have the rare opportunity to find out if my > perception is true, I've found out I was wrong. It's been > incredibly humbling for me. > > Perhaps we can keep this in mind when we see these things > happening around us. If someone is walking to the front of > the line, we really don't why. Does it serve us to get angry, > and think, hey, why are they so special? Maybe they were > turned away for darshan the night before, after waiting all > night long. We have no idea. Maybe people who are ill > are waiting til the end of the program to receive their darshan, > because Amma has more time then - perhaps they aren't being > overlooked. There's a paralyzed man that I see every year > at the San Ramon ashram who receives his darshan the very > last - and it's tremendously special. > > It always helps me to remind myself, "I don't know what is > really going on here, or who these people are, or what the > circumstances - who am I to judge, or to get angry?" Then > I can remember to focus on myself and my own growth, > rather than spend my time obsessing and ruminating (Oh, I've > done it soooo many times!) over something that may not even > be reality. I try to focus on trusting Amma. I'm not so good > at it yet, but this is what I've learned, and it's my 2 cents, for > what it's worth. > Blessings, > Achintya > > > Sponsor > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Terms of Service > <> . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 I've found the opposite to be true: my perceptions are usually right-on and there's really some nasty arrogant self-fish people among sevites. Sure there are some that are really that Ignorant, but unless you stand up to them, they'll never know. There are many who are very level-headed and compassionate, but too many that need to take a class in customer service. There are some people who don't have the patience to wait for darshan, not understanding the value of it. I did token seva one year, late at night and people just arriving were getting discouraged at the "apparent" slow rate of darshan, sometimes choosing to give back their token and leave. I usually tried to cheer them up by showing them my token which was just as high a number, but they complained about having to get up early. Little do they know that many times darshan seems to go a little faster later at night, or at least the number changing seems to. I also remember one year I did the tissue seva, asking women to remove their earrings, and got many a huffy reaction to the request. tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 Your post makes it clear that there is ignorance among both the sevites and the non-sevites. My hunch also is that many of the people that didn't have patience to wait on line were probably new or hadn't spent much time around Amma. But once again it is back to the question of ignorance...avidya. That is what Amma is trying to remove in this world. It is, in a sense, her very purpose for being here. So why make a big deal about it. We already know that it exists, so why not just try to remove it with a little compassion. L Ammachi, "tomgull" <tomgull@m...> wrote: > I've found the opposite to be true: my perceptions > are usually right-on and there's really some nasty > arrogant self-fish people among sevites. Sure there > are some that are really that Ignorant, but unless you > stand up to them, they'll never know. There are many > who are very level-headed and compassionate, but too > many that need to take a class in customer service. > > There are some people who don't have the patience > to wait for darshan, not understanding the value > of it. I did token seva one year, late at night > and people just arriving were getting discouraged at > the "apparent" slow rate of darshan, sometimes > choosing to give back their token and leave. I usually > tried to cheer them up by showing them my token which > was just as high a number, but they complained about > having to get up early. Little do they know that > many times darshan seems to go a little faster > later at night, or at least the number changing seems > to. I also remember one year I did the tissue seva, > asking women to remove their earrings, and got many > a huffy reaction to the request. > > tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2002 Report Share Posted August 5, 2002 Rick Archer wrote: > Also, what1s the big fuss about the line? Are people in a hurry to get > through it so they can go to a movie? Seems to me the whole Amma experience > is one of hanging around the whole time, soaking up the bliss. What1s the > big rush? (Unless of course, you have a squirmy 2-year-old.) > *Big Grin* *L* I hope next year when he is 3 he will be better. Shelly Mommy to 5 CT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2002 Report Share Posted August 5, 2002 Ammachi, "lbrachlin" <lalita120@h...> wrote: > But once again it is back to the question > of ignorance...avidya. That is what Amma is trying to remove in this world. It is, in a sense, her very purpose for being here. So why make a big deal about it. We already know that it exists, so why not just try to remove it with a little compassion. It's a guru's job to remove ignorance. Anyone else trying to fulfil that kind of dharma will burn themselves out. tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2002 Report Share Posted August 5, 2002 > I also remember one year I did the tissue seva, > asking women to remove their earrings, and got many > a huffy reaction to the request. > > tom When I sense that they¹re going to react that way, or when they do, I usually explain a bit more, saying that Amma has scars and bruises to show for having hugged so many people who didn¹t remove their jewelry. Then they usually understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2002 Report Share Posted August 5, 2002 They say Yudisthira (head of the Pandavas and Arjuna¹s older brother) had no enemies. Of course many people were trying to kill him, and Duryodhana did all kinds of yucky things to him. But in his perception, everyone was a friend; therefore he had no enemies. -- > I wanted to share a great experience I had with respect to my son > getting a name from Amma & the lesson in patience he received. > > He is 10 years old and in Chicago he decided he wanted to get a > name. He went through the process of singing up, asking again and > again when to do it, and was seated next to Amma to get his name. He > waited there for about 2-3 hours & I watched him sit there. About > ever 10 minutes, he tugged on Dayamrita swami's robe asking 'is it > time yet'... My initial reaction was to want to get up and to scold > him, because my ego was embarrassed by his behavior. I convinced > myself to just sit and watch as he got scolded time and again...being > told 'not yet, just sit and wait'. By the time he got his name, he > had mellowed quite a bit. The way I look at this is he must have > burned off many many vasanas during this experience... something I > never could have been able to do on my own with him. > > I have enjoyed watching this discussion because it has reinforced > that my experiences or reactions are not isolated. > > Just about ever day around Amma someone will do something that I take > offense to in some way. I believe that it is 'my taking offense' > that is the root of the problem, or my reactions, and not that > person. > > When I was first coming to see Amma, I wanted everything to be > perfect, to have the perfectly blissful experience. I would totally > cut myself off from work or my day to day life to try to preserve > this blissfulness as mush as possible. At that time, these ego- > resetting experiences always were uncomfortable. > > I have recently made a transition where I am trying to use my day to > day stresses as opportunities to strip off vasanas, instead of trying > to run away from them or avoid them. When I see the unpleasant > experiences I have around Amma's sevites in this way, I can somehow > transform them into tools to help me kill of more and more of my ego. > > - Vishvesh > > > > > > Ammachi, Dianadevi@a... wrote: >> > But if you have a squirmy 8 and 10 year old, what a great place for > them to >> > learn about patience, consideration, humility, and even human > behavior - >> > waiting in the Darshan line. > > > > Sponsor > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Terms of Service > <> . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 Om Namah Shivaya! This really is a great conversation because when you go to see Amma, or at least when I do, you want to it to be the most meditative, blissful experiance. But instead alot of vasana's are brought to the surface that we didn't know where there. That's one of the great things about being in the presence of realized souls like our beloved Amma. I think Buddha once said, "In the presence of a realized Master meditation happens spontaneously." I also think that in the presance of a true master all sorts of crap gets brought to the surface so we can deal with it and then let it go so our souls can become a fraction more pure:~) We need rude, loud, selfish people for our spiritual evolution. They really are doing us a huge favor. I went camping this weekend at a very full camp ground, and around 4:30 in the morning this very, very drunk guy starts hootin' and hollerin' for everyone to wake up and party with him. At first I was pretty upset that he was interupting my precious sleep:o), but then I thought, probably in this life or another I had done the same thing to someone else and it was now paybeack time. Plus he was giving me an opportunity to give up my very serious attachement to sleep. Anytime I run into very rude, mean people I try to remember a prayer that is in Gandhi's Book of Prayers. "One who speakes ill of me is a hero to me; he works without pay. He is instrumental in enabling me to wash off my old sins. He renders me service without reward. He sinks and saves others. He is such a beloved fellow, O Rama, I pray for his long life. Dadu says, The villifier is benefactor in disguise." Not the easiest advice to follow, but it does help to keep positve in the face of mean people:~) In Amma's Love Jon Om Amriteswaryai Namaha Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: > They say Yudisthira (head of the Pandavas and Arjuna¹s older brother) had no > enemies. Of course many people were trying to kill him, and Duryodhana did > all kinds of yucky things to him. But in his perception, everyone was a > friend; therefore he had no enemies. > -- > > > > I wanted to share a great experience I had with respect to my son > > getting a name from Amma & the lesson in patience he received. > > > > He is 10 years old and in Chicago he decided he wanted to get a > > name. He went through the process of singing up, asking again and > > again when to do it, and was seated next to Amma to get his name. He > > waited there for about 2-3 hours & I watched him sit there. About > > ever 10 minutes, he tugged on Dayamrita swami's robe asking 'is it > > time yet'... My initial reaction was to want to get up and to scold > > him, because my ego was embarrassed by his behavior. I convinced > > myself to just sit and watch as he got scolded time and again...being > > told 'not yet, just sit and wait'. By the time he got his name, he > > had mellowed quite a bit. The way I look at this is he must have > > burned off many many vasanas during this experience... something I > > never could have been able to do on my own with him. > > > > I have enjoyed watching this discussion because it has reinforced > > that my experiences or reactions are not isolated. > > > > Just about ever day around Amma someone will do something that I take > > offense to in some way. I believe that it is 'my taking offense' > > that is the root of the problem, or my reactions, and not that > > person. > > > > When I was first coming to see Amma, I wanted everything to be > > perfect, to have the perfectly blissful experience. I would totally > > cut myself off from work or my day to day life to try to preserve > > this blissfulness as mush as possible. At that time, these ego- > > resetting experiences always were uncomfortable. > > > > I have recently made a transition where I am trying to use my day to > > day stresses as opportunities to strip off vasanas, instead of trying > > to run away from them or avoid them. When I see the unpleasant > > experiences I have around Amma's sevites in this way, I can somehow > > transform them into tools to help me kill of more and more of my ego. > > > > - Vishvesh > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi, Dianadevi@a... wrote: > >> > But if you have a squirmy 8 and 10 year old, what a great place for > > them to > >> > learn about patience, consideration, humility, and even human > > behavior - > >> > waiting in the Darshan line. > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > Ammachi- > > > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 Sometimes difficult people can be great teachers. Carlos Castaneda spoke in one of his books about the value of finding a ³petty tyrant.² His master, Don Juan, had come under the jurisdiction of such a person, and he felt that it was of immense value in helping him lose his self-importance and become impeccable. -- > "jon_m_108" <jon_mohr > Ammachi > Tue, 06 Aug 2002 16:42:09 -0000 > Ammachi > Re: What we perceive > > > Om Namah Shivaya! > > This really is a great conversation because when you go to see Amma, > or at least when I do, you want to it to be the most meditative, > blissful experiance. But instead alot of vasana's are brought to the > surface that we didn't know where there. That's one of the great > things about being in the presence of realized souls like our beloved > Amma. > > I think Buddha once said, "In the presence of a realized Master > meditation happens spontaneously." I also think that in the presance > of a true master all sorts of crap gets brought to the surface so we > can deal with it and then let it go so our souls can become a > fraction more pure:~) > > We need rude, loud, selfish people for our spiritual evolution. They > really are doing us a huge favor. I went camping this weekend at a > very full camp ground, and around 4:30 in the morning this very, very > drunk guy starts hootin' and hollerin' for everyone to wake up and > party with him. At first I was pretty upset that he was interupting > my precious sleep:o), but then I thought, probably in this life or > another I had done the same thing to someone else and it was now > paybeack time. Plus he was giving me an opportunity to give up my > very serious attachement to sleep. > > Anytime I run into very rude, mean people I try to remember a prayer > that is in Gandhi's Book of Prayers. > > "One who speakes ill of me is a hero to me; > he works without pay. > He is instrumental in enabling me to wash off my old sins. > He renders me service without reward. > He sinks and saves others. > He is such a beloved fellow, > O Rama, I pray for his long life. > Dadu says, The villifier is benefactor in disguise." > > Not the easiest advice to follow, but it does help to keep positve in > the face of mean people:~) > > In Amma's Love > Jon > Om Amriteswaryai Namaha > > > > > > Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: >> > They say Yudisthira (head of the Pandavas and Arjuna¹s older > brother) had no >> > enemies. Of course many people were trying to kill him, and > Duryodhana did >> > all kinds of yucky things to him. But in his perception, everyone > was a >> > friend; therefore he had no enemies. >> > -- >> > >> > >>> > > I wanted to share a great experience I had with respect to my son >>> > > getting a name from Amma & the lesson in patience he received. >>> > > >>> > > He is 10 years old and in Chicago he decided he wanted to get a >>> > > name. He went through the process of singing up, asking again and >>> > > again when to do it, and was seated next to Amma to get his > name. He >>> > > waited there for about 2-3 hours & I watched him sit there. About >>> > > ever 10 minutes, he tugged on Dayamrita swami's robe asking 'is it >>> > > time yet'... My initial reaction was to want to get up and to > scold >>> > > him, because my ego was embarrassed by his behavior. I convinced >>> > > myself to just sit and watch as he got scolded time and > again...being >>> > > told 'not yet, just sit and wait'. By the time he got his name, > he >>> > > had mellowed quite a bit. The way I look at this is he must have >>> > > burned off many many vasanas during this experience... something I >>> > > never could have been able to do on my own with him. >>> > > >>> > > I have enjoyed watching this discussion because it has reinforced >>> > > that my experiences or reactions are not isolated. >>> > > >>> > > Just about ever day around Amma someone will do something that I > take >>> > > offense to in some way. I believe that it is 'my taking offense' >>> > > that is the root of the problem, or my reactions, and not that >>> > > person. >>> > > >>> > > When I was first coming to see Amma, I wanted everything to be >>> > > perfect, to have the perfectly blissful experience. I would > totally >>> > > cut myself off from work or my day to day life to try to preserve >>> > > this blissfulness as mush as possible. At that time, these ego- >>> > > resetting experiences always were uncomfortable. >>> > > >>> > > I have recently made a transition where I am trying to use my day > to >>> > > day stresses as opportunities to strip off vasanas, instead of > trying >>> > > to run away from them or avoid them. When I see the unpleasant >>> > > experiences I have around Amma's sevites in this way, I can > somehow >>> > > transform them into tools to help me kill of more and more of my > ego. >>> > > >>> > > - Vishvesh >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Ammachi, Dianadevi@a... wrote: >>>>> > >> > But if you have a squirmy 8 and 10 year old, what a great > place for >>> > > them to >>>>> > >> > learn about patience, consideration, humility, and even human >>> > > behavior - >>>>> > >> > waiting in the Darshan line. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Sponsor >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! >>> > > >>> > > Ammachi- >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Terms of > Service >>> > > <> . >>> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > Sponsor > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Terms of Service > <> . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 One need not look for a spiritual teacher to find a petty tyrant, although there are plenty of them available. Aikya Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: > Sometimes difficult people can be great teachers. Carlos Castaneda spoke in > one of his books about the value of finding a ³petty tyrant.² His master, > Don Juan, had come under the jurisdiction of such a person, and he felt that > it was of immense value in helping him lose his self-importance and become > impeccable. > -- > > > "jon_m_108" <jon_mohr@h...> > > Ammachi > > Tue, 06 Aug 2002 16:42:09 -0000 > > Ammachi > > Re: What we perceive > > > > > > Om Namah Shivaya! > > > > This really is a great conversation because when you go to see Amma, > > or at least when I do, you want to it to be the most meditative, > > blissful experiance. But instead alot of vasana's are brought to the > > surface that we didn't know where there. That's one of the great > > things about being in the presence of realized souls like our beloved > > Amma. > > > > I think Buddha once said, "In the presence of a realized Master > > meditation happens spontaneously." I also think that in the presance > > of a true master all sorts of crap gets brought to the surface so we > > can deal with it and then let it go so our souls can become a > > fraction more pure:~) > > > > We need rude, loud, selfish people for our spiritual evolution. They > > really are doing us a huge favor. I went camping this weekend at a > > very full camp ground, and around 4:30 in the morning this very, very > > drunk guy starts hootin' and hollerin' for everyone to wake up and > > party with him. At first I was pretty upset that he was interupting > > my precious sleep:o), but then I thought, probably in this life or > > another I had done the same thing to someone else and it was now > > paybeack time. Plus he was giving me an opportunity to give up my > > very serious attachement to sleep. > > > > Anytime I run into very rude, mean people I try to remember a prayer > > that is in Gandhi's Book of Prayers. > > > > "One who speakes ill of me is a hero to me; > > he works without pay. > > He is instrumental in enabling me to wash off my old sins. > > He renders me service without reward. > > He sinks and saves others. > > He is such a beloved fellow, > > O Rama, I pray for his long life. > > Dadu says, The villifier is benefactor in disguise." > > > > Not the easiest advice to follow, but it does help to keep positve in > > the face of mean people:~) > > > > In Amma's Love > > Jon > > Om Amriteswaryai Namaha > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: > >> > They say Yudisthira (head of the Pandavas and Arjuna¹s older > > brother) had no > >> > enemies. Of course many people were trying to kill him, and > > Duryodhana did > >> > all kinds of yucky things to him. But in his perception, everyone > > was a > >> > friend; therefore he had no enemies. > >> > -- > >> > > >> > > >>> > > I wanted to share a great experience I had with respect to my son > >>> > > getting a name from Amma & the lesson in patience he received. > >>> > > > >>> > > He is 10 years old and in Chicago he decided he wanted to get a > >>> > > name. He went through the process of singing up, asking again and > >>> > > again when to do it, and was seated next to Amma to get his > > name. He > >>> > > waited there for about 2-3 hours & I watched him sit there. About > >>> > > ever 10 minutes, he tugged on Dayamrita swami's robe asking 'is it > >>> > > time yet'... My initial reaction was to want to get up and to > > scold > >>> > > him, because my ego was embarrassed by his behavior. I convinced > >>> > > myself to just sit and watch as he got scolded time and > > again...being > >>> > > told 'not yet, just sit and wait'. By the time he got his name, > > he > >>> > > had mellowed quite a bit. The way I look at this is he must have > >>> > > burned off many many vasanas during this experience... something I > >>> > > never could have been able to do on my own with him. > >>> > > > >>> > > I have enjoyed watching this discussion because it has reinforced > >>> > > that my experiences or reactions are not isolated. > >>> > > > >>> > > Just about ever day around Amma someone will do something that I > > take > >>> > > offense to in some way. I believe that it is 'my taking offense' > >>> > > that is the root of the problem, or my reactions, and not that > >>> > > person. > >>> > > > >>> > > When I was first coming to see Amma, I wanted everything to be > >>> > > perfect, to have the perfectly blissful experience. I would > > totally > >>> > > cut myself off from work or my day to day life to try to preserve > >>> > > this blissfulness as mush as possible. At that time, these ego- > >>> > > resetting experiences always were uncomfortable. > >>> > > > >>> > > I have recently made a transition where I am trying to use my day > > to > >>> > > day stresses as opportunities to strip off vasanas, instead of > > trying > >>> > > to run away from them or avoid them. When I see the unpleasant > >>> > > experiences I have around Amma's sevites in this way, I can > > somehow > >>> > > transform them into tools to help me kill of more and more of my > > ego. > >>> > > > >>> > > - Vishvesh > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > Ammachi, Dianadevi@a... wrote: > >>>>> > >> > But if you have a squirmy 8 and 10 year old, what a great > > place for > >>> > > them to > >>>>> > >> > learn about patience, consideration, humility, and even human > >>> > > behavior - > >>>>> > >> > waiting in the Darshan line. > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > Sponsor > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > >>> > > > >>> > > Ammachi- > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > Terms of > > Service > >>> > > <> . > >>> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > Ammachi- > > > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 Thks for the anecdote.. I really liked that one. It also reminds me of my favorite teaching from Sarada Devi, "Do not find faults in others, only find faults in yourself"... A simple rule of thumb for me that keeps me out of other people's business.. irregardless of whether they are right or wrong. - Vishvesh Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: > They say Yudisthira (head of the Pandavas and Arjuna¹s older brother) had no > enemies. Of course many people were trying to kill him, and Duryodhana did > all kinds of yucky things to him. But in his perception, everyone was a > friend; therefore he had no enemies. > -- > > > > I wanted to share a great experience I had with respect to my son > > getting a name from Amma & the lesson in patience he received. > > > > He is 10 years old and in Chicago he decided he wanted to get a > > name. He went through the process of singing up, asking again and > > again when to do it, and was seated next to Amma to get his name. He > > waited there for about 2-3 hours & I watched him sit there. About > > ever 10 minutes, he tugged on Dayamrita swami's robe asking 'is it > > time yet'... My initial reaction was to want to get up and to scold > > him, because my ego was embarrassed by his behavior. I convinced > > myself to just sit and watch as he got scolded time and again...being > > told 'not yet, just sit and wait'. By the time he got his name, he > > had mellowed quite a bit. The way I look at this is he must have > > burned off many many vasanas during this experience... something I > > never could have been able to do on my own with him. > > > > I have enjoyed watching this discussion because it has reinforced > > that my experiences or reactions are not isolated. > > > > Just about ever day around Amma someone will do something that I take > > offense to in some way. I believe that it is 'my taking offense' > > that is the root of the problem, or my reactions, and not that > > person. > > > > When I was first coming to see Amma, I wanted everything to be > > perfect, to have the perfectly blissful experience. I would totally > > cut myself off from work or my day to day life to try to preserve > > this blissfulness as mush as possible. At that time, these ego- > > resetting experiences always were uncomfortable. > > > > I have recently made a transition where I am trying to use my day to > > day stresses as opportunities to strip off vasanas, instead of trying > > to run away from them or avoid them. When I see the unpleasant > > experiences I have around Amma's sevites in this way, I can somehow > > transform them into tools to help me kill of more and more of my ego. > > > > - Vishvesh > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi, Dianadevi@a... wrote: > >> > But if you have a squirmy 8 and 10 year old, what a great place for > > them to > >> > learn about patience, consideration, humility, and even human > > behavior - > >> > waiting in the Darshan line. > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > Ammachi- > > > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 The complete quote from Sri Srada Devi is "If you want peace, do not see the faults of others. Rather see your own faults. Learn to make the whole world your own. No one is a stranger, my child. The whole world is your own." Here's the site from where I got it http://www.sriramakrishna.org/sdsay.htm Namashivaya. Girish On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, vishvesh47 wrote: > Thks for the anecdote.. I really liked that one. > > It also reminds me of my favorite teaching from Sarada Devi, > > "Do not find faults in others, only find faults in yourself"... > > A simple rule of thumb for me that keeps me out of other people's > business.. irregardless of whether they are right or wrong. > > - Vishvesh > > > Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: > > They say Yudisthira (head of the Pandavas and Arjuna¹s older > brother) had no > > enemies. Of course many people were trying to kill him, and > Duryodhana did > > all kinds of yucky things to him. But in his perception, everyone > was a > > friend; therefore he had no enemies. > > -- > > > > > > > I wanted to share a great experience I had with respect to my son > > > getting a name from Amma & the lesson in patience he received. > > > > > > He is 10 years old and in Chicago he decided he wanted to get a > > > name. He went through the process of singing up, asking again and > > > again when to do it, and was seated next to Amma to get his > name. He > > > waited there for about 2-3 hours & I watched him sit there. About > > > ever 10 minutes, he tugged on Dayamrita swami's robe asking 'is it > > > time yet'... My initial reaction was to want to get up and to > scold > > > him, because my ego was embarrassed by his behavior. I convinced > > > myself to just sit and watch as he got scolded time and > again...being > > > told 'not yet, just sit and wait'. By the time he got his name, > he > > > had mellowed quite a bit. The way I look at this is he must have > > > burned off many many vasanas during this experience... something I > > > never could have been able to do on my own with him. > > > > > > I have enjoyed watching this discussion because it has reinforced > > > that my experiences or reactions are not isolated. > > > > > > Just about ever day around Amma someone will do something that I > take > > > offense to in some way. I believe that it is 'my taking offense' > > > that is the root of the problem, or my reactions, and not that > > > person. > > > > > > When I was first coming to see Amma, I wanted everything to be > > > perfect, to have the perfectly blissful experience. I would > totally > > > cut myself off from work or my day to day life to try to preserve > > > this blissfulness as mush as possible. At that time, these ego- > > > resetting experiences always were uncomfortable. > > > > > > I have recently made a transition where I am trying to use my day > to > > > day stresses as opportunities to strip off vasanas, instead of > trying > > > to run away from them or avoid them. When I see the unpleasant > > > experiences I have around Amma's sevites in this way, I can > somehow > > > transform them into tools to help me kill of more and more of my > ego. > > > > > > - Vishvesh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi, Dianadevi@a... wrote: > > >> > But if you have a squirmy 8 and 10 year old, what a great > place for > > > them to > > >> > learn about patience, consideration, humility, and even human > > > behavior - > > >> > waiting in the Darshan line. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > > > Ammachi- > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service > > > <> . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 Wow I just started reading Carlos Castaneda. My husband reads him and is sharing his books with me and I am sharing books with him. He is reading Kali's Odiya. We just found some major similarites and on our paths and are having fun with it all. *L* Shelly (the rambler) Mommy to 5 CT Rick Archer wrote: > Sometimes difficult people can be great teachers. Carlos Castaneda spoke in > one of his books about the value of finding a 3petty tyrant.2 His master, > Don Juan, had come under the jurisdiction of such a person, and he felt that > it was of immense value in helping him lose his self-importance and become > impeccable. > -- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 Oh thank you for this. I am going to print it out and put it on our fridge for the family to enjoy. Shelly Mommy to 5 CT Girish wrote: > The complete quote from Sri Srada Devi is > > "If you want peace, do not see the faults of others. Rather see your own faults. > Learn to make the whole world your own. No one is a stranger, my child. > The whole world is your own." > > Here's the site from where I got it > http://www.sriramakrishna.org/sdsay.htm > > Namashivaya. > > Girish > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 Read them in order, if you can. It¹s interesting to watch his progression. Lotta weird stuff in there but loads of fun. > Wow I just started reading Carlos Castaneda. My husband reads him and is > sharing his books with me and I am sharing books with him. He is reading > Kali's > Odiya. We just found some major similarites and on our paths and are having > fun > with it all. *L* > > Shelly (the rambler) > Mommy to 5 > CT > > Rick Archer wrote: > >> > Sometimes difficult people can be great teachers. Carlos Castaneda spoke in >> > one of his books about the value of finding a 3petty tyrant.2 His master, >> > Don Juan, had come under the jurisdiction of such a person, and he felt >> that >> > it was of immense value in helping him lose his self-importance and become >> > impeccable. >> > -- >> > >> > > > > Sponsor > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Terms of Service > <> . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2002 Report Share Posted August 7, 2002 Ammachi, "tomgull" <tomgull@m...> wrote: > Ammachi, "lbrachlin" <lalita120@h...> wrote: > > But once again it is back to the question > > of ignorance...avidya. That is what Amma is trying to remove in > this world. It is, in a sense, her very purpose for being here. So > why make a big deal about it. We already know that it exists, so why > not just try to remove it with a little compassion. > > > It's a guru's job to remove ignorance. Anyone else > trying to fulfil that kind of dharma will burn themselves > out. > > tom I'm not saying anyone should take on the guru's role. But Amma, Herself, advises us to develop compassion. I think in our own small way, we can develop some compassion and see beyond the ignorance and small petty behavior. I also think we can reflect Amma's love and compassion and be of some genuine service if we are so willing. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2002 Report Share Posted August 7, 2002 Hi I would also like to add that when we show compassion towards someone who we may perceive to be acting rudely/offensively it is OUR Avidya that we are helping remove and not the other person's. So we are NOT acting like the Guru but rather as a willing disciple in that case - for if we react negatively it is our Avidya that will increase , and if we react positively we help weaken our ego a little more. bala --- lbrachlin <lalita120 wrote: > Ammachi, "tomgull" <tomgull@m...> wrote: > > Ammachi, "lbrachlin" <lalita120@h...> > wrote: > > > But once again it is back to the question > > > of ignorance...avidya. That is what Amma is > trying to remove in > > this world. It is, in a sense, her very purpose > for being here. So > > why make a big deal about it. We already know that > it exists, so > why > > not just try to remove it with a little > compassion. > > > > > > It's a guru's job to remove ignorance. Anyone > else > > trying to fulfil that kind of dharma will burn > themselves > > out. > > > > tom > > > I'm not saying anyone should take on the guru's > role. But Amma, > Herself, advises us to develop compassion. I think > in our own small > way, we can develop some compassion and see beyond > the ignorance and > small petty behavior. I also think we can reflect > Amma's love and > compassion and be of some genuine service if we are > so willing. > > Lisa > > Health - Feel better, live better http://health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2002 Report Share Posted August 7, 2002 Amma's answer to a question regarding whether we should forgive people who do no seek forgiveness: (from a mail I had sent some time ago) " Another question was whether/how/should we forgive some one who has commited a crime/mistake and is not repentant about this. Specifically the question was about the FBI officers in the Judi Bari case (www.indybay.org/features/judibari/) and about how although they were sentenced to imprisonment they expressed no remorse. Amma's answer was that although they did not seek forgiveness, forgiving them was good for them and good for us. " I guess the same applies here. Namashivaya Girish On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, balakrishnan Shankar wrote: > Hi > > I would also like to add that when we show > compassion towards someone who we may perceive to be > acting rudely/offensively it is OUR Avidya that we are > helping remove and not the other person's. > > So we are NOT acting like the Guru but rather as a > willing disciple in that case - for if we react > negatively it is our Avidya that will increase , and > if we react positively we help weaken our ego a little > more. > > bala > > > --- lbrachlin <lalita120 wrote: > > Ammachi, "tomgull" <tomgull@m...> wrote: > > > Ammachi, "lbrachlin" <lalita120@h...> > > wrote: > > > > But once again it is back to the question > > > > of ignorance...avidya. That is what Amma is > > trying to remove in > > > this world. It is, in a sense, her very purpose > > for being here. So > > > why make a big deal about it. We already know that > > it exists, so > > why > > > not just try to remove it with a little > > compassion. > > > > > > > > > It's a guru's job to remove ignorance. Anyone > > else > > > trying to fulfil that kind of dharma will burn > > themselves > > > out. > > > > > > tom > > > > > > I'm not saying anyone should take on the guru's > > role. But Amma, > > Herself, advises us to develop compassion. I think > > in our own small > > way, we can develop some compassion and see beyond > > the ignorance and > > small petty behavior. I also think we can reflect > > Amma's love and > > compassion and be of some genuine service if we are > > so willing. > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > Health - Feel better, live better > http://health. > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2002 Report Share Posted August 8, 2002 Regarding -- > It's a guru's job to remove ignorance. Anyone else > trying to fulfil that kind of dharma will burn themselves > out. There is also agreement by the student or disciple -- based on faith in the teacher (guru), his/her teaching and one's own ability to "get it" -- to learn from that teacher. Sometimes people get poetic about the "agreement" and call it surrender to the guru. It is a conscious agreement. The student acknowledges that the teacher/guru is able and worthy and requests to be taught, to have his/her ignorance removed by that specific guru. It's like a contract, a formalized relationship. How it exactly it is formally expressed depends on the tradition and the personality of the guru but there is nothing vague about it. Aikya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2002 Report Share Posted August 8, 2002 In a message dated 8/8/02 3:58:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rastanaga writes: << To me (from a distance) it _seemed_ that she was sending the message to cool it down a bit up there. >> It is my understanding that Amma has instucted to let them dance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2002 Report Share Posted August 8, 2002 > I would also like to add that when we show > compassion towards someone who we may perceive to be > acting rudely/offensively it is OUR Avidya that we are > helping remove and not the other person's. Each situation has it's Dharma. Therefore, a rudely acting or otherwise improperly acting sevite should be given corrective advice, etc. This doesn't necessarily imply or require "compassion" so to say, just the corrective measures needed. Someone being corrected either subtly or directly may not take your actions or words seriously if they sense "compassion". In other words, they'll go off what they feel from you rather than what you're trying to communicate. tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2002 Report Share Posted August 8, 2002 Ammachi, "tomgull" <tomgull@m...> wrote: > Each situation has it's Dharma. Therefore, > a rudely acting or otherwise improperly acting > sevite should be given corrective advice, etc. I have seen several cases were self designated Ashram police decides that is his/her job to tell people how to act. I think there should be a mechanism so if someone feels offended by someone else actions, instead of rushing to "correct" someone for what they think is incorrect behavior, they should pass the complain to someone that is not emotionally involved and can act with fairness. One example, dancing inside the temple (in San Ramon), I remember the times when for some it was almost obscene to see people dancing there. There was never a lack of self proclaimed watch dogs to go up there and tell them not to do so. Do they still dance? As of this summer, yes. Have I ever danced there, no. That is not what I go there for. Have I ever had a desire to dance there? Yes, I have. > This doesn't necessarily imply or require > "compassion" so to say, just the corrective > measures needed. Someone being corrected > either subtly or directly may not take your > actions or words seriously if they sense > "compassion". If what you say, does not make sense to them, why should they listen to you? They have the same right to be there as you do. You don't like what they do, ignore them. (of course, i am not writing here of a potential terrorist act) Was your official Ashram seva at that time to go around and correct people? > In other words, they'll > go off what they feel from you rather > than what you're trying to communicate. And what is wrong with that, dont you do the same thing when others speak to you? Wont you do the same thing with this email? Take what you think is valuable, and discard the rest? Respectfully, RastaNaga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2002 Report Share Posted August 8, 2002 I¹m not a dancer myself but I get a kick out of seeing them up there dancing. It¹s obviously their way of expressing their joy and enthusiasm. Live and let live is my motto. I¹ve found over the years that people who tend to police and judge and repress others are usually fighting the things within themselves that they see those others expressing. Often those things are very normal and even wholesome, but if someone is straining, they tend to be puritanical and judgmental. > > Do they still dance? As of this summer, yes. > > Have I ever danced there, no. > That is not what I go there for. > > Have I ever had a desire to dance there? > Yes, I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2002 Report Share Posted August 8, 2002 Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: > Its obviously their way of expressing their joy and enthusiasm. > Live and let live is my motto. There has been times when I feel the floor up there might not handle the stump load. People do meditate under that floor. I have been tempted to go up on a friendly way and tell them to mellow out a bit. I have never done so. However, im almost sure that on one occasion I saw Amma pointing up there while taking to someone. To me (from a distance) it _seemed_ that she was sending the message to cool it down a bit up there. They did keep dancing after that, but in a more gentle way. I could make a long list of things I don't like, or that I would do different in the Ashram. For example, I would take that store and most of the tables out of there to allow more people to sit. If some one needs to buy something, they can go out, the same way they are directed to go out to buy food and eat. Should I go to Amma and ask her change the temple and do it my way? BTW, is this Amma's idea of how the temple should be, or is she allowing someone else to decide these kind of things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.