Guest guest Posted July 18, 2001 Report Share Posted July 18, 2001 Excellent. Thank you very much.<br><br>I guess my question wasn't phrased correctly. Let me see if I can word it better.<br><br>In the events of my life, I've felt that God was guiding me and helping me along in my life. I believe strongly that there is such a thing as fate. Is that the same as God's will? Our free will overcomes this, obviously, and this is where karma comes in...or is it? Does God help us make decisions in our lives? Guide us along? Or does God not judge either way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2001 Report Share Posted July 18, 2001 Pranams, Blessed Self, Karma Queen<br><br>I basically agree with your post -- such points as (1) we don't earn God's grace so much as we leave ourselves open to it; (2) no distinction between 'good' and 'bad' karma; (3) sadhana (i.e. your 'letting go of hatred, anger and the need to feel the ego, etc.) enables us to become aware of God's 'unconditional love' , but I would phrase things a little differently.<br><br>Also, I would add that God's unconditional love is not an emotion and not something that can be withheld or withdrawn. God's unconditional love is an intrinsic and definitive aspect of His Being. It is a part of our intrinsic nature as well for we are all manifestations of Brahman. It is not something that can be developed or needs to be developed. The purpose of sadhana is to decondition our minds, to see maya as maya, to see the futility of constantly trying to satisfy the ego, to see that our desires for the things of maya are detrimental to our knowledge of who we really are, and most importantly, to eventually think and act as our authentic selves, as manifestations of Brahman. <br><br>Om namah Sivaya<br><br>Omprem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2001 Report Share Posted July 19, 2001 There are 3 schools of thought : <br>1. Dvaitic Philosophy (Dualism)<br>2. Visishta-Advaitic Philosophy (Qualified Non-Dualism.)<br>3. Advaitic Philosphy (Non-Dualism.)<br><br>Before climbing higher to Vishishtadvaita and Advaita, let us understand Dvaita, and stick to it. <br><br>Fate is destiny. What governs destiny? Our karma. How does karma govern our destiny?<br>There are 3 types of karma:<br>1. sanchita karma (accumulated karmas of the past)<br>2. prarabdha karma (the past karma that we are experiencing now- fructifying karma)<br>3. kriyamana karma (the karma that we are doing now, which will affect our future).<br><br>Karma is anything you do in thought, word and deed. Karma is not only these 3 actions, but also their result. A result of any action cannot be subdivided from it. Hence the action and the result together constitute the karma.<br><br>Every action has a reaction. Any action in thought, word, deed, sentiment, imagination etc, bring about a reaction of similar force and nature. Hence, virtue brings about rewards, and vice, punishment. <br><br>God neither is the bestower of rewards for the good, nor gives punishment to the bad. It is our own karma that determines the rewards and the punishment. This is the Law of causation.<br><br>Coming to free will : Both sanchita karma and prarabdha karma are of the past/present, and obviously you cannot change your past / present. But the future can be changed, by doing good kriyamana karma. This is where free will comes in. That is why they say, " you can win fate with freewill".<br><br>>>Does God help us make decisions in our lives? <br>Guide us along? Or does God not judge either way?<<<br><br>As Ramana Maharshi said, " If you seek God with your whole heart, then you may be assured that the Grace of God is also seeking you. "<br>When you have a problem and run to your parent, or elder sibling or a friend, do they not help you? When people with finite love themselves help/guide their dear ones when they are in trouble; will God - the Infinite Ocean of Divine Love - refrain Himself?<br><br>Please note: Karma is too big a topic to be discussed in posts. The above said points, are only a bare skeleton of karma ( compiled from "Bliss Divine " by Swami Sivananda ). I do not mind emails, but please do write "Sadhna Club" in the subject field. <br><br>Hope This Helps<br>Hari Aum !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2001 Report Share Posted July 19, 2001 Hello, chitrasrinivas. Thak you for responding to my post. Ok, so this loving boy healed enough karma to fill 12 lifetimes. That's wonderful! So how do I heal my eyes?<br><br>I'm not trying to be disagreeable... not today anyway. <playful smile> I just don't get the point. <knocks on her head in the hopes that some one is home> <br><br>Confused but happy still,<br>Audra<br><br>ps. *hugs* I can tell that you are sincer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2001 Report Share Posted July 19, 2001 //Karma is too big a topic to be discussed in posts.//<br><br>so? It's so fun to discuss! <smile><br><br>Seriously though. I enjoyed your last post very much. It gave me allot to think about. It was helpful. Thank you.<br><br>With love,<br>Audra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2001 Report Share Posted July 21, 2001 O Dear One!<br>As we near the end of our physical existences on this plane, we must pay off the karmic debt we have accumulated in past lifetimes, blessed be the dear ones that accept what is given in love as a blessing, for surely you are near your final incarnation to realize as much as you do. And the Saints in the final heaven have granted each of us lovingly only the bearest of debt to work off, taking on as much as they can themselves. It is a wonderous universe, and workings theirin are mind boggling, but all loving.<br><br>Look within and be warm!<br>Peace, Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2001 Report Share Posted July 21, 2001 Thanks for the beautiful thought annapurna. <br><br>>>And the Saints in the final heaven have granted each of us lovingly only the bearest of debt to work off, taking on as much as they can themselves>><br><br>I'm curious though about this statement. In Christianity, one has the concept of 'Christ dying to cleanse the sins of the world'. Does that have an equivalent in Hindu scriptures too? <br><br>My scriptural knowledge is limited, but am I wrong in my understanding that, at least in eastern philosophy, no one takes anyone's Karmic debt away, unless one has earned it? Grace, or 'GOD's' love exsits unconditionally, irrespective of good or bad karma; however that very 'GOD' allows us, the jivatma* (embodied spirit) to work out one's karma themselves. HE/SHE/ holds the hand of the travelor, as they pave their own pathway back 'home'.<br><br>Just curious.. <br><br>Yes .. I agree .. the ways of the Universe are wonderous indeed!<br><br>Tat twam asi<br>UMA<br><br>*Jivatma = embodied spirit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2001 Report Share Posted July 21, 2001 Hi Uma. Actually, whenever I read the bible, I come up with a more "mystical" or Eastern interpretation of scripures, so your question interests me a great deal. I too have thought about this issue of Crist taking on the sins of the world and working off karma.<br><br>//My scriptural knowledge is limited, but am I wrong in my understanding that, at least in eastern philosophy, no one takes anyone's Karmic debt away, unless one has earned it? Grace...//<br><br>Perhaps this is why the church under Constantine (spelling?) spoke out against the concept of reincarnation. Before the canonisation, many early Christians beleived in reincarnation. The Jews of Jesus' time did too. <br><br>I know nothing of Hidu scriptures so I have no answer for you. sorry. I am wondering about the idea myself. If Christ took on the sins of humanity, then why should we need to work off karma?<br><br>God be with you,<br>Audra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2001 Report Share Posted July 21, 2001 Hello Anna. I must say that you make the most wonderful posts! I love reading your soft warm words of wisdom.<br><br>I'm not trying to be anoying or disagreeable, but..... How do I heal my eyes?<br><br>The reason I keep asking is because the people in this club seem to know allot, not because I am bitter or angry. I got over the bitterness about my eyes at about age 7 or so. I sill would like to see better though. <br><br>Speaking of bitterness, does anyone know how I might let go of all of mine? I have racked up allot of it over the years, and I am having trouble letting go. <br><br>Much love to all of you,<br>Audra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 Tks Uma, this question is very important as I have heard many of my chiristian friends saying this and hoping they were also burning Karmas of their loved ones.<br><br> I personally feel that as per the karma theory of Hinduism, one has to get results of one's past karma....No other can bear the fruits of good/bad Karma of others. Had it been possible, parents would not have let their children suffer...or some crooks would have stolen good karma of others...it is childish to say we can bear others good/bad karma.<br><br> But i will admit this is possible for enlightened souls...they will not do this for an individual but keeping in view the latent plan of Mother Nature, they may bear the brunt of negative energies themselves, so that the negativity thus ready to make thousands suffer, may be destroyed. I think this happened in the case of Christ as he was not a common man, but an Avtaraa.<br><br> Thanks Babu for the beautiful story. What happened to the thief ? Well i think he, by this incident, turned his negative energies to positive ones, and would have made a fast progress.<br><br> Thanks Blessed self OMprem for the word of caution. It would be useful if you could pinpoint some of the usual disturbances felt while Kundalini awakening for the benefit of members.<br><br> dear Raghana Your post is wonderful. pls continue with the next parts of it.<br><br> Those who have a question on their meditation, obstacles, or results but feel shy to put it on board, may e-mail them at silentsoul_55. Their quesion will be put on the board by founders, without disclosing their name, as we have done in past.<br><br> With our Warm welcome to all new Sadhakas who have recently joined our satsang<br><br>Hari Aum<br><br>silent soul<br><br>ps: & a big hug to Audra for keeping the forum alive by her great and honest thoughts ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 *a huge hug in return to silent soul* Careful! I am a very honest person. <smile> <br><br>Warm love,<br>Audra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 >>Speaking of bitterness, does anyone know how I might let go of all of mine? I have racked up allot of it over the years, and I am having trouble letting go.<<<br><br>I'm afraid I cannot offer much help, but I would like to relate to you a story. I have been having trouble with a woman I had inadvertantly offended by stating my beliefs concerning Jesus, I had appologized several times and yet her bitterness over my statement continued. When I told my husband about the situation he said to me, "tell her this story:<br><br>Once long ago there were three monks making a journey to a villiage some 10 miles away. They had walked nearly 3 miles when they came to a stream that had over run it's banks. Standing along side the steam was a young woman who was trying to find a simple way across. She was clearly frightened of the water, and though the monks wished to help her cross, each had taken a vow to never touch a woman. Suddenly the eldest monk stepped forward, lifted the woman in his arms, and carried her across the stream setting her down safe and dry on the opposite bank. The younger monks were shocked, but said nothing as they crossed the stream themselves. <br><br>The three monks continued their journey in silence. When they reached the village the younger monks could contain themselves no longer and finally confronted the eldest, "You have broken your vow by touching a woman - and yet have nothing to say for yourself?"<br><br>The eldest simply replied, "I set the young woman down on the banks of the stream, yet you have carried her these last seven miles."<br><br>:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 Oh, thak you, MEofUI. I love that story... only when I heard it it was only two monks crossing the stream. More the marrier! <smile> <br><br>My own interpretation of the story is that there is a time to carry whatever emotion/ thought/ intent/ word/ deed/ memory... whatever, and then a time to let it go. Why haven't I let go of my bitterness? I don't know. Perhaps it makes me feel secure. Perhaps is gives me a reason for being. Or maybe I just won't know what to do without it. I don't know... I want to let go though. No use hating people and events that aren't even happening anymore!<br><br>Sill would apreciate advice or meditation techniques for letting of of old anger. Thaks again, WEofUI.<br><br>With love,<br>Audra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 Perhaps you might feel comfortable sharing where your bitterness stems from? I know that my meditation techniques vary according to the areas I am moving in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2001 Report Share Posted July 25, 2001 Audra-<br><br>I let go of old anger after I realized that the only reason I held onto it was to soothe and coddle my ego. My anger was doing nothing positive for me or for anyone else, so every day I made the effort to become a little bit more quiet and let the anger go a little bit more. It takes time, but I really feel like a different person now.<br><br>You'll let go of it when you're ready and when you really internalize the feeling that holding onto anger only feeds the ego.<br><br>Om Shanti,<br>Erica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2001 Report Share Posted July 25, 2001 Dear Audra,<br>I know not how you can heal your eyes. But I do know what you can do when you have a problem. Before telling you that, I will give a few examples:<br><br>1. Imagine there is an ore of gold in front of you. To extract gold from its ore, you need to purify and separate gold, and then subject it to a lot of heat, mold it to the desired shape, and finally you have the ornament.<br><br>2. When a child has an infection, the mother gives the child a bitter medicine. The child should not think that the mother is torturing him/her by subjecting him/her to this bitterness. This medicine is given only for the benefit of the child.<br><br>Similarly, we are like the golden ore with a lot of impurities (we are basically gold deep inside ;-)). God separates the golden core inside from the external impurities by purifying it. This purification process is what we construe as misery. <br><br>Hence, when a misery befalls us, we must take it as a purification / treatment process. Then the misery ceases to be a misery. When the child is given the medicine, the medicine fights the bacteria, but the child is not aware of it. Only after it recovers in a day or two, does it realise the usefullness of the medicine. Similarly, when we are undergoing the misery, we don't know the reason behind it. Only after some time ( say a few years), we realise how the misery has benefited us, and has changed our outlook towards the better.<br><br>The purification process can be quickened by using a catalyst. Similarly let's use the catalyst of faith and love (Bhakthi) towards God, and let's quicken this process, and finish it.<br><br>Hari Aum !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2001 Report Share Posted July 26, 2001 Truely truely, holding onto anger only feeds the ego! So how did you let go a little each day? thank you for the advice, by the way.<br><br>With love,<br>Audra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2001 Report Share Posted July 26, 2001 In all honesty, WEofUI, I do not know. I know that I am agry with those who would hurt, kill, torture or persicute others in the name of God and country. I am bitter tword all governments and religions. But where does my bitterness stem from? <shrug> <br><br>Thank you though for the invitation to share. Will this bit of info help you grab a technique for me?<br><br>With love,<br>Audra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2001 Report Share Posted July 26, 2001 Thank yoi, chitrasrinivas. This is very interesting, if not confusing advice. I truely understand the adversity thing. I have lived it. I know that "pain" and "suffering" can teach us a great deal. It is a true seer who can stare down the barel of a gun and see the beauty of a sunrise. I like that thought. I had it the other day, and now I have an opropriate place to slap that little musing.<br><br>I do not understand how faith can allow me to overcome my own bitterness. All I know about faith is that stupid hipocritical people beleive in the things I expiriance but some how see me as a freak. I learn from expiriance. Faith is an obsticle to truth/God. This is just my perspective. Perhaps we have differant deffinitions of faith. Maybe you can explain faith a bit more to me.... Maybe I'me just dence. lol I don't know.<br><br>With love,<br>Audra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2001 Report Share Posted July 26, 2001 >>Will this bit of info help you grab a technique for me?<<<br><br>While I understand how you might be bitter over the intolerance and oppression you mentioned in your post I'm afraid I'm unable to advise you. However, I am far less knowledgeable than many others in this club, perhaps someone else will know. <br><br>Personally - Tantra desolved my bitterness associated with rape, Yoga desolved my bitterness associated with a poor body image, and simple meditation desolved my bitterness associated with religiously biggoted family members. I'm sure that the answer will come when you are most able to receive it. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2001 Report Share Posted July 27, 2001 I made an effort to, Audra. I was aware that I was bitter and angry and made an effort to release it. That's really all I can say because that's really all it took. I realized that I am more in control of my own emotions and my attachments to them than I ever thought. I cut the cord, so to speak, and let them go. I observed them and felt them as long as they were valid for me, and then just let them go.<br><br>Om Shanti<br><br>Erica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2001 Report Share Posted July 27, 2001 Thank you, WEofUI for responding even if you do not know THE answer... I am sure there are many valid ways of doing it.... By the way, it takes a wise person to admit when she does not know! Thank you for being honest and caring. *hugs*<br><br>With love,<br>Audra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2001 Report Share Posted July 27, 2001 Thank you very much, Erica. I understand the concept. You held the bitterness as long as you felt like you needed it, then let go. Well then... I must envent my own technique...saaaaaayyy visualisation. I am visual person. <br><br>With love,<br>Audra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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