Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 Dear learned ones in the group.. Its good that someone has raised his voice over the ills in the society. But iam unable to understand why he is much bothered about brahmin becoming vaishya or something else. Though iam one of the youngest member in ur group, what i observed in life sofar is that just by getting born in SriVaishnava family dosent mean that he/she becomes a srivaishnavite.And also just he gets born in Sudra family he/she dosent become a Sudra. It is the personality/nature of the man/woman which decides in which sect he/she falls into. Lets be clear on this.I know many Srivaishnavites who booze and eat beef and dance in discos.I also know of many vaishyas and Sudras who follow pure Srivaishnavism under the guidence of ChinnaJeeyar in AndhraPradesh.I hope the same might be there at Tamilnadu and elsewhere. I dont understand still why people want to divide the brahmin community in the name of Madhvas,Srivaishnavas,Niyogis etc..etc..These are not the days when we should demark one another.When there was enough ego flowing between the different sections of brahmins maybe they demarcated each other in accordance to their faiths and beliefs.Now is the time we unite under one roof.Otherwise everyone knows the consequences. I also feel that there is a need for compilation of a book consisting of day to day rituals (nithyaunsanthanam), various practices, and traditions of Brahmins. It may contain practices by various sects of brahmins.It can be left to the user to decide which suits him/her to practice. Regards, Ramakrishna. Thursday, January 03, 2002 5:04 PM Subject: Dear Sir, I am very glad to note that the Srivaishanavites and other people in a foreign land are very much interested in performing all rituals /festivals connected to Sri Vaishnava Order, with deep sense of commitment and devotion. May the Divine couple Sri Hari bless you all and your undertakings. On the other hand, I am very sorry to say that the glorious vaishnava tradition is slowly fading out in southern parts of the country. Most of the Divyadesams have no maintenance. Brahmins have become Vaishyas, and Vaishyas have become sudras. And sudras and panchamas have become rulers of the land. There has been a tremendous cinematic influence on the brahmin fold and other sections of the Society. Is there anyone to think on these lines and guide the people. We too have great acharyas in our own times. There is a need for revival of vaishnava thought in the minds of youngsters. What steps have been taken to restore the Great Order?. Acharyas and brahmins in Madras are scared of doing anything openly. In order to keep our tradition alive, I strongly feel that there is a need for compilation of a book consisting of day to day rituals (nithyaunsanthanam), various practices, and traditions of Brahmin with special reference to Sri Vaishnavas. One should know what are the basic differences between brahmins and other sections; and inturn between smarthas, vaishnavites and madhavas; the reasons therefor. This is the age of science & technology. There is also a need for interpretation of vishistadvaita in terms of modern science & technology. I feel that our vedic texts have strong scientific base. We need a person like Dr. Krishnan. Dr Krishnan was not only a noted scientist but also an exponent of vaishnava philosophy. I would request the Acharyas to take a lead and guide the people in a proper direction. With regards, Yours sincerely, R.Parthiban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 26, 2003 Dear Members Let me expand the question a little bit more... is it true in the modern context, where an individuals profession is not inherited, the Varnam is inherited? I would like to present a couple of thoughts on some assumptions people (at least many Brahmins I have seen) have about caste system and Varnashrama system. It was interesting to note the following observation in the posting by Sri. Tenkasi Viswanathan (In the thread "Must Read...". > The question of caste become centarl only when there are economic issues. Now, I might be quoting him slightly out of context. However, the analysis stands. The underlying assumption here, to me, seems to be that as long as people happy with their economic situation, as long as they get fed every day, and have a shelter, they are are happy with their profession, for, caste was nothing but the profession of the individual. I beg to differ. In my humble opinion, the problem with caste system is not economic disparity, but social disparity it imposes and the denial of liberty. For example, this assumption ignores the interest a person may have in another profession, at which he/she may be more adept. Thus it indirectly, through the validation of caste system along with equitable economic distribution, impinges upon an individual's liberty to choose that profession in which he/she is really interested in and may excel in. This is directly contrary to what Sri.Viswanathan has argued is (or should be) the case, as we will see. It is interesting to note that while I have heard of many glowing portraits of saints who were 'became' Brahmins, nowhere have I seen a portrait praising a Brahmin who 'became' a Vaishya... or a Shudra. To me, what this says is that to be a Brahmin is considered inherently superior. The roubling thing is that it has been generalized and extended not only to people who by their sadhana, became enlightened, but also to Brahmins who were Brahmins only because they were born into a Brahmin family. Thus, it runs contrary to the notion of "Different, yet equal" that Sri.Viswanathan has tried to propound using Purusha Suktham. Stated otherwise, the question is, if I am from a family of priests, adn uncle took to business, and was hugely successful too, is he still a Brahmin? Or does he automatically become a Vaishya? This question, IMHO, forms the core of the discussion on caste system. Interestingly to note that this is the precisely the question addressed in the posting on "Who is a Brahmin?", where Prof.V.Rangarajan seems to opine that my uncle is not a Brahmin. I have been a member of since its inception and Bhakthi List for three years. In all these months, I have not seen any composed and ordered discussion on Caste system and its future. Every instance where it was brought up, it either got mired in personal attacks, or got answered with an idealistic, even answers like "nothing stops the Sudra on the road from becoming a Brahmin, just ask him to be another Valmiki". If Dharma is indeed a way of life, our social relations automatically become a part of our spirituality. History has shown that it is the spiritual leaders and thinkers who validated every important social and religious reform in the past, and they had served their societies well by doing so. I would like to humbly request that the learned members of this group put their mind to the question and lead a discussion. Regards Ramakrishnan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2003 Dear SrI Venkatesh: The first two of the three SrI Sookthis about Swamy Desikan is available in the monograph released by the centennial Committe of the THirumALikai of Swamy Desikan . I will translate them for you soon. V.Sadagopan - Venkatesh Venugopal Oppiliappan ; ; Saturday, September 27, 2003 1:15 AM Dear Bhagavathas, Kindly guide me in getting the following slokas from the web. 1) Desika Dinacharya--- Kumara Varadar 2) Desika Vigrahadhyanam--Kumara Varadar 3)Sapthadi Rathna Maalika thanks and regards rajashree venkateshTo from this group, send an email to:OppiliappanYour use of is subject to the Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2003 SrI ; Dear Bhagavathas, PraNAms to all of you. We are very happy to note the elaborate Thiruadhyayana Utsavam from 20th to 27th Dec 2003. We pray EmberumAnAr to Bless the functions to be wellcelebrated and attended. May The Ever Graceful Divya Dhampathies Pour Their Blessings On All of You for doing more and more such services for the Good of The Whole Universe. Adiyen convey my humble Greetings and Best Wishes to All for a Very Pleasant, Peaceful and Purposeful Happy New Year - 2004. Adiyen, Sri Ramanuja Dasan Kombur Vankipuram Madhavan. --- Sadagopan <sgopan wrote: > SrI: > > Dear SrI RanganAtha BhakthAs: > > Thiru adhyayana Uthsavam will be celebrated > at SrI RanganAtha Temple between Saturday , > Dec 20 to Saturday , Dec 27 , 2003 . > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 2, 2004 SrI: Answers to Srivenkataramani's questions. For other members : for continuity , pls read my previous email titled "Swami Desikan's view on chanting rudram Ref: Re chanting Rudram......" 1) Yes, Rudram is chanted by srivaishnavas , as explained ELABORATELY in my previous two emails. Why only rudram? All vedic bhagams including karma kandam is recited by srivaishnava's as glory of sriman narayana! there is no question about that. there is no part of vedam thats is discarded by Bhagavad Ramanuja sishyas unlike Advaithis and dvaithis. 2) Sandilya smriti is NOT vedas. Vedas are sruthis. Smrithis are explanations of great maharishis based on their conclusion on vedas. They are accepted as pramana by all the schools of vedanta. Rudra's temple was equated to dead body because of its ill effects for a paramaikanthi. Paramaikanti is jnani! He should not be deviated from his sole objective that is sriman narayana. Association with anyadevatha will always turn one towards samsaram only. These are NOT just conclusions of srivaishanva acharyas but by great Maharishis who were unbiased. This was also explained in detail by Sri Krishna in Srimad Bhagavad Gita. This is was not told to bring disgrace to Rudra. It is a fact that was explanied. Even the mohana saastra pravachanam of Rudra is to disuade those who did apacharam to goutama maharishi. He started propagating paasupatamatam to disuade them. Due to their dreadful karma many people also started to follow the same. So this is done by Rudra as a kainkaryam to sriman narayana. Punishing assura prakruthis is a kainkaryam given to him by sriman narayana! Still Siva as "Ahirbudhya" has refrained from mohana saastra pravachanam and beautifully explaines the Paratvam of sriman Narayana and that he is the only person to be worshipped and surrendered. This he explains in his elaborate and most beautiful "Ahirbudhya samhitai". Swami Desikan glorifies this samhitai to a great extent. Infact in moolamantra adhikaram to explain a particular padam swami desikan quoted ahibudya samhitai extensively. It is well known that Mantrarajapada stotram was authored by shiva where he glorifies and surrenders unto sriman narayana. The paratvam of sriman Narayana was not questioned by Adi sankara. A paramaikanti knows what he should do. Mere "kaanthis" need not worry about them. Also knowing why a paramaikanti has such an acharam will give nothing to non-paramaikanti and non- ekanthis. Anway, let us conclude this topic and move on. There won't be much return in learning thro' web! sri rama told " Sookshma: parama durjnaya:". These doubts are to be learnt from a srivaishnava sadacharyan by obediently prostrating to him and requesting him to explain the same. All the best! Aravind G. --- Rajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram wrote: > Sri Aravind - > > Thanks for the post and the nice explanation > provided by Sri U. Ve. S. Swami. Do Sri Vaishnavas > actually chant Rudram as a glorification of Sriman > Narayana ? If not, why not ? > > Where in Vedas does Sandilya Smrti occur ? Is there > any explanation provided why this smrti considers > Siva's temple to be as impure as a dead body ? > > Best Regards > Rajaram V. > Aravind Gopalan <balaji_gop wrote: > > SrimathE Nigamantha Mahadesikaya Nama: > > SrimathE Sundara Sowmyanarayanaya Mahadesikaya Nama: > > SrimathE Ramanujaya Mahadesikaya Nama: > > SrimathE Sowmyanarayana Mahadesikaya Nama: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 4, 2004 Dear Sri Sukumar: The subject has been dealt with in the Chapter 23 "Greatness of Bhagavad Ramanuja Darsanam" in my book "Hinduism Rediscovered" which will answer all your questions. If after reading, you still have doubts, please feel free to contact me. Dasoham Anbil Ramaswamy ============================================================== Dear Sri Aravind, Thanks for this post clearly elucidating various aspects. If you are not put to inconvenience, I need to know following details: 1. Do dvaithins deny parts of vedas? I was given to understand that Sri Madhwacharya's works are based entirely on Sri Veda Vyasa's soothras. In fact, Acharya declares that his guru is Veda Vyasa himself. In his works he quotes not only from brahma soothras, but all the puranas written by Vyasa simply declaring that all the works of Vyasa are authoritative and is in sync with what veda says. In this scenario, how can he discard parts of veda. Can you pls let me know. 2. While you have clarified on smrithi being pramanas of vedas, I want to know where Upanishads stand. Many upanishads are crux of dialogues between a sage and his sishya. In this context, I want to know why we call them shrutis, in the backdrop of shruti being apourusheya. 3. You have referred Rudra's kainkaryam to Narayana through propogation of paasupatamatam. Can you please elaborate on the same as to what is paasupatamatam and also the events behind apacharam to gautama maharshi. 4. What is mohana saastra pravachanam. Is it a sloka? On who this is recited? 5. Can you let me know on Shiva's authorisation of Mantrarajapada stotram and his surrendering. Is this mentioned in smritis? 6. Coming to Adishankara, as far as I read texts on him, he has glorified all gods, travelling from south to north, and Bhajagovindam is a part of his various works. His siddhantham as we know is advaitha, which denounces saguna brahman and glorifies nirguna brahman. If he has glorified Narayana, at the same time, he also glorified others - shiva, shanmukha, durga etc. Unlike other Jagadgurus - Sri Ramanuja, Sri Madhwacharya he has glorified all gods and then finally said - sarvam kalvidam brahma. I want to know exactly where he says that Parabrahman is indeed only Narayana. He might have said "Narayana paro vyakthath" which Sri Prabhupada quotes in his work, but he said many things on other devathas. Finally I am asking these just to gain knowledge but not for anything else. Being a Krishnabhaktha I don't have any doubts about what Sri Ramanuja, Sri Madhwa, Sri Vedantha Desika, Sri Raghavendra Theertha say and when they say Vishnu is the Supreme, that's it. Thanks Sukumar Aravind Gopalan [balaji_gop] Monday, August 02, 2004 8:39 AM Rajaram Venkataramani Cc: Re: SrI: Answers to Srivenkataramani's questions. For other members : for continuity , pls read my previous email titled "Swami Desikan's view on chanting rudram Ref: Re chanting Rudram......" 1) Yes, Rudram is chanted by srivaishnavas , as explained ELABORATELY in my previous two emails. Why only rudram? All vedic bhagams including karma kandam is recited by srivaishnava's as glory of sriman narayana! there is no question about that. there is no part of vedam thats is discarded by Bhagavad Ramanuja sishyas unlike Advaithis and dvaithis. 2) Sandilya smriti is NOT vedas. Vedas are sruthis. Smrithis are explanations of great maharishis based on their conclusion on vedas. They are accepted as pramana by all the schools of vedanta. Rudra's temple was equated to dead body because of its ill effects for a paramaikanthi. Paramaikanti is jnani! He should not be deviated from his sole objective that is sriman narayana. Association with anyadevatha will always turn one towards samsaram only. These are NOT just conclusions of srivaishanva acharyas but by great Maharishis who were unbiased. This was also explained in detail by Sri Krishna in Srimad Bhagavad Gita. This is was not told to bring disgrace to Rudra. It is a fact that was explanied. Even the mohana saastra pravachanam of Rudra is to disuade those who did apacharam to goutama maharishi. He started propagating paasupatamatam to disuade them. Due to their dreadful karma many people also started to follow the same. So this is done by Rudra as a kainkaryam to sriman narayana. Punishing assura prakruthis is a kainkaryam given to him by sriman narayana! Still Siva as "Ahirbudhya" has refrained from mohana saastra pravachanam and beautifully explaines the Paratvam of sriman Narayana and that he is the only person to be worshipped and surrendered. This he explains in his elaborate and most beautiful "Ahirbudhya samhitai". Swami Desikan glorifies this samhitai to a great extent. Infact in moolamantra adhikaram to explain a particular padam swami desikan quoted ahibudya samhitai extensively. It is well known that Mantrarajapada stotram was authored by shiva where he glorifies and surrenders unto sriman narayana. The paratvam of sriman Narayana was not questioned by Adi sankara. A paramaikanti knows what he should do. Mere "kaanthis" need not worry about them. Also knowing why a paramaikanti has such an acharam will give nothing to non-paramaikanti and non- ekanthis. Anway, let us conclude this topic and move on. There won't be much return in learning thro' web! sri rama told " Sookshma: parama durjnaya:". These doubts are to be learnt from a srivaishnava sadacharyan by obediently prostrating to him and requesting him to explain the same. All the best! Aravind G. --- Rajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram wrote: > Sri Aravind - > > Thanks for the post and the nice explanation > provided by Sri U. Ve. S. Swami. Do Sri Vaishnavas > actually chant Rudram as a glorification of Sriman > Narayana ? If not, why not ? > > Where in Vedas does Sandilya Smrti occur ? Is there > any explanation provided why this smrti considers > Siva's temple to be as impure as a dead body ? > > Best Regards > Rajaram V. > Aravind Gopalan <balaji_gop wrote: > > SrimathE Nigamantha Mahadesikaya Nama: > > SrimathE Sundara Sowmyanarayanaya Mahadesikaya Nama: > > SrimathE Ramanujaya Mahadesikaya Nama: > > SrimathE Sowmyanarayana Mahadesikaya Nama: Links Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 5, 2004 SrI: Let me answer ur queries. > > 1. Do dvaithins deny parts of vedas? **** Dvaithis discard Abedha sruthi, Advaithis dicard Bedha sruthi. Visishtadvaithin gives consistent interpretation for both with the help of ghataka sruthi. So Visishtadvaithin does not discard any part of vedam. It is simple logic if u say one part of vedam is wrong then why can't the part that u have accepted be wrong? or why can't the entire vedas be wrong? so if u discard any part u are not different from a atheist. But Still Vedanta desikan has commented that MAdhvam is closest (when compared to advaitham) to ours though obviously has lot of difference. > 2. While you have clarified on smrithi being > pramanas of vedas, I want to > know where Upanishads stand. Upanishads are vedantam. It is so called as there is nothing superior than this to be learnt and is final conclusion of the entire vedas. It is no doubt apourusheya. It has "svaram" unlike man/god made slokas. Yes, Upanishads, most of them, are like conversation between an acharyan and sishya but that is just to show that Brahma vidya has to be learnt from an acharya in that traditional manner in which it goes in the upanishads. It beautifully instructs the mode of learning this superior education. This is Uttamoor swami's explanation in his "Upanishad saram". > 3. You have referred Rudra's kainkaryam to Narayana > through propogation of > paasupatamatam. Can you please elaborate on the > same as to what is > paasupatamatam and also the events behind apacharam > to gautama maharshi. > ***** Paasupatamatam considers Shiva as the Paramatma. It is BhAhya matam( not vedic). I do not know exactly the story behind the apacharam behind gautama maharishi. Also I find it irrelevant. Mind always refuses to learn/remember irrelevant things ) > 4. What is mohana saastra pravachanam. Is it a > sloka? On who this is > recited? > ****** NO! No! No! Mohana saastra pravachanam means spreading/teaching siddhantam that is against vedantam. they are usually called bhAhya siddhantam and kudrusti siddantam. > 5. Can you let me know on Shiva's authorisation of > Mantrarajapada stotram > and his surrendering. Is this mentioned in smritis? > it is not in smrithis. Have a dekko at this beautiful slokam thats starts with "eshwarua uvacha" in www.prapatti.com > 6. Coming to Adishankara, as far as I read texts on > him, he has glorified > all gods, travelling from south to north, and > Bhajagovindam is a part of his > various works. His siddhantham as we know is > advaitha, which denounces > saguna brahman and glorifies nirguna brahman. If he > has glorified Narayana, > at the same time, he also glorified others - shiva, > shanmukha, durga etc. > Unlike other Jagadgurus - Sri Ramanuja, Sri > Madhwacharya he has glorified > all gods and then finally said - sarvam kalvidam > brahma. I want to know > exactly where he says that Parabrahman is indeed > only Narayana. He might > have said "Narayana paro vyakthath" which Sri > Prabhupada quotes in his work, > but he said many things on other devathas. **** refer "Dialogue on Hinduism book". I have read this there. The author quotes Swami Desikan mentioning this in his work. I have not exactly read desikan's words on this. As u say adi sankara has composed slokams on all the anyadevathas he stumbled upon! > > > Finally I am asking these just to gain knowledge but > not for anything else. > Being a Krishnabhaktha I don't have any doubts about > what Sri Ramanuja, Sri > Madhwa, Sri Vedantha Desika, Sri Raghavendra > Theertha say and when they say > Vishnu is the Supreme, that's it. *** I have been stressing all the time that these are subtle points that needs to be learnt only traditonally under the feet of a sadacharya. These are rahasyas and unless it is learnt in detail it won't be clear. Only a sadacharya can help. Otherwise it will be total waste of time. Reading emails and trying to learn subtle issues will fetch nothing. Result of such practice would be just exponential magnification of present doubts and confusion. In our tradition students do not ask doubt first. They sit near the acharyans feet and hear what they say ardently and after conclusion of the kalaksehpam find that there is no scope for any doubts to arise as the acharyan has showered them with details pregnant with amazing clarity and consistency. Aravind G. > > > > Aravind Gopalan [balaji_gop] > Monday, August 02, 2004 8:39 AM > Rajaram Venkataramani > Cc: > Re: > > > SrI: > > Answers to Srivenkataramani's questions. > > For other members : for continuity , pls read my > previous email titled "Swami Desikan's view on > chanting rudram Ref: Re chanting > Rudram......" > > 1) Yes, Rudram is chanted by srivaishnavas , as > explained ELABORATELY in my previous two emails. Why > only rudram? All vedic bhagams including karma > kandam > is recited by srivaishnava's as glory of sriman > narayana! there is no question about that. there is > no > part of vedam thats is discarded by Bhagavad > Ramanuja > sishyas unlike Advaithis and dvaithis. > > > 2) Sandilya smriti is NOT vedas. Vedas are sruthis. > Smrithis are explanations of great maharishis based > on > their conclusion on vedas. They are accepted as > pramana by all the schools of vedanta. > > Rudra's temple was equated to dead body because of > its > ill effects for a paramaikanthi. Paramaikanti is > jnani! He should not be deviated from his sole > objective that is sriman narayana. Association with > anyadevatha will always turn one towards samsaram > only. These are NOT just conclusions of > srivaishanva > acharyas but by great Maharishis who were unbiased. > This was also explained in detail by Sri Krishna in > Srimad Bhagavad Gita. This is was not told to bring > disgrace to Rudra. It is a fact that was explanied. > Even the mohana saastra pravachanam of Rudra is to > disuade those who did apacharam to goutama > maharishi. > He started propagating paasupatamatam to disuade > them. > Due to their dreadful karma many people also started > to follow the same. So this is done by Rudra as a > kainkaryam to sriman narayana. Punishing assura > prakruthis is a kainkaryam given to him by sriman > narayana! > > Still Siva as "Ahirbudhya" has refrained from mohana > saastra pravachanam and beautifully explaines the > Paratvam of sriman Narayana and that he is the only > person to be worshipped and surrendered. This he > explains in his elaborate and most beautiful > "Ahirbudhya samhitai". Swami Desikan glorifies this > samhitai to a great extent. Infact in moolamantra > adhikaram to explain a particular padam swami > desikan > quoted ahibudya samhitai extensively. > > It is well known that Mantrarajapada stotram was > authored by shiva where he glorifies and surrenders > unto sriman narayana. > > The paratvam of sriman Narayana was not questioned > by > Adi sankara. > A paramaikanti knows what he should do. Mere > "kaanthis" need not worry about them. Also knowing > why a paramaikanti has such an acharam will give > nothing to non-paramaikanti and non- ekanthis. > > Anway, let us conclude this topic and move on. There > won't be much return in learning thro' web! sri rama > told " Sookshma: parama durjnaya:". These doubts are > to be learnt from a srivaishnava sadacharyan by > obediently prostrating to him and requesting him to > explain the same. > > > All the best! > > Aravind G. > > > > > > --- Rajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram > wrote: > > > Sri Aravind - > > > > Thanks for the post and the nice explanation > > provided by Sri U. Ve. S. Swami. Do Sri Vaishnavas > > actually chant Rudram as a glorification of Sriman > > Narayana ? If not, why not ? > > > > Where in Vedas does Sandilya Smrti occur ? Is > there > > any explanation provided why this smrti considers > > Siva's temple to be as impure as a dead body ? > > > > Best Regards > > Rajaram V. > > Aravind Gopalan <balaji_gop wrote: > > > > SrimathE Nigamantha Mahadesikaya Nama: > > > > SrimathE Sundara Sowmyanarayanaya Mahadesikaya > Nama: > > > === message truncated === Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
