The new high

[Guest guest]

JAI GURUDEV

Hi all...

 

The group has created a new record. This month, we

have the highest number of messages since the creation

of this group. The last record was 214 in April last

year. Then, we had a long, long discussion on Sadhak.

 

Ashish...

 

=====

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Sadhak, The Quest for Completeness

http://www20.brinkster.com/sadhak

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[Guest guest]

My Dear Friends,

 

Congrats & Thanks "Anu ji" , "You" & to all as everybody is contributing.

 

With the grace of god & our guru we will see some great heights in the

future if continue our quest for truth.

 

Thanks .

 

Rohit.

-

"Ashish Marathe" <nikhilashish

<>

Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:29 AM

The new high

 

> JAI GURUDEV

> Hi all...

>

> The group has created a new record. This month, we

> have the highest number of messages since the creation

> of this group. The last record was 214 in April last

> year. Then, we had a long, long discussion on Sadhak.

>

> Ashish...

>

> =====

> ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø

> Sadhak, The Quest for Completeness

> http://www20.brinkster.com/sadhak

> ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø

>

>

>

> Send FREE video emails in Mail!

> http://promo./videomail/

>

>

> Jay Gurudev

>

>

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

[Guest guest]

, "S.A." <sunnyan@n...> wrote:

> My Dear Friends,

 

dear rohit,

anuji wastes her time, as well as yours. i do not know what i have

done to get caught up with philosophers again and again and again.

surely it must not be a small sin. before it is too late, i run for my

life.........you should also worry about yours.

 

wishes

bye

anu

> >

[Guest guest]

-ds,

>

> dear rohit,

 

 

i did not mean to be rude to you or anyone else. it is just that i am

irritated with myself gor not giving my work first priority.

which is the most important thing

sorry and bye wishes

anu

i do not know what i have

> done to get caught up with philosophers again and again and again.

> surely it must not be a small sin. before it is too late, i run for

my

> life.........you should also worry about yours.

>

> wishes

> bye

> anu

> > >

[Guest guest]

dear ashisih,

 

> The group has created a new record. This month, we

> have the highest number of messages since the creation

> of this group. The last record was 214 in April last

> year. Then, we had a long, long discussion on Sadhak.

>

> Ashish...

>

> =====

> ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø

> Sadhak, The Quest for Completeness

> http://www20.brinkster.com/sadhak

> ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø

 

 

i remember the commotion that was going on, good work, if u know abt

arvind and charanjit let me know personally/publicly whichever u feel

appropriate. when ever i think of numbers i defenitly would remember

arvind, i was for long time wanting to know as to what happened to him

 

regarding the improvements i will let u knwo within 2 - 3 days, i

have to go thru what people have suggested, and see if mine dosent

overlap, i suggest that it would be practical enough if u put some

deadlines (may be 15 days ) and remind people of the deadline for

submission for improvements every now and then(Say twice a week)

 

 

affectionately

Jai Gurudev

[Guest guest]

Dear Swami Birendranand Maharaj...

> if u know abt arvind and charanjit let me know

 

Arvind was looking for a new job since his contract with Symbion had

expired. Then, in November, he visited Delhi and after that, he

simply vanished. I mailed him twice, but never got a response.

 

I and Charanjit exchanged new year e-greetings and after that, he has

vanished too.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Ashish...

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Anu!

 

Thanks for being the live wire in the group and also

for taking the initiative in revamping sadhak.com(and

people are saying that dotcoms are going bust!)

 

Aum Namasivaya,

Vijay

 

 

 

--- devi_bhagat <devi_bhagat wrote:

> , "S.A." <sunnyan@n...> wrote:

> > My Dear Friends,

>

> dear rohit,

> anuji wastes her time, as well as yours. i do not

> know what i have

> done to get caught up with philosophers again and

> again and again.

> surely it must not be a small sin. before it is too

> late, i run for my

> life.........you should also worry about yours.

>

> wishes

> bye

> anu

> > >

>

>

 

 

 

 

Send FREE video emails in Mail!

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[Guest guest]

JAI GURUDEV

Jai Paramhansa Swami Vijayanand Saraswati Maharaj ji

> for taking the initiative in revamping sadhak.com

 

That's NOT sadhak.com. That's www20.brinkster.com/sadhak

> and people are saying that dotcoms are going bust!

 

Of course, they are not. Only those dotcoms with poor revenue models

or those whose only source of revenue was advertising while requiring

investment in millions are going bust.

 

Ashish...

[Guest guest]

, Yoga man <childofdevi> wrote:

> Namaste Sri Anu!

>

namaste,

> Thanks for being the live wire in the group

`

you are welcome. now listen carefully, greed is not a good thing

vijay, be it for yantras or for sadhnas. learn it from my few 100

words mail, or learn it yourself by experience the hard way. the

choice is yours.

why do you need multiple yantras vijay, some to decorate in the

cupboard, some to wear?? what is your problem?

are you sure you can treat them all with respect? i.e. say a pranaam

to all of them, show dhoop deep and chant the respective mantras daily

atlest 5 times. if so go ahead. if not, any no. of yantras lying at

home will do you no good.

 

without reference to context i wish to say something to you.

money does not buy God, it never did and it never will. run miles away

from anyone who claims otherwise. he is simply exploiting your own

fears/confusions and situation. mix it with some amount of faith

and devotion,and you will get results. but with it will come the very

dangerous message that they have to be mixed together to get results.

 

if you wish to respect any of the GODS you believe in, if you have to

respect any of the masters you have read, stand up, be a lion have the

courage to face failure if it comes but try devotion unpolluted. any

of the GODs you believe in has in him the metal to provide you with

all you need. only if you have the courage to ask yourself.

 

good wishes

aum namah shivay

 

anu

 

shiva is the GOD from whom all the mantras tantras of the world rose.

Shiva is the GURU of all Gurus in the world, who came before or will

come later. YET this very shiva gets pleased if you make a shivling of

mud pour a lota jal, and provides you with all you need. And he is

impartial, educated or uneducated, rich or poor do not matter to him.

 

in my life long before i discovered sadhans or mantras, there came a

time when i was under so much stress that i almost lost my mind. i

suffered from hallucinations, and all kinds of confusions-well the

reason was tantric prayog if you wish to believe it (told by a very

renouned saint), but fancy names have little meaning before GOD or

even humans, no? Do you know how i got cured, i went to a shiva temple

bowed my head on a shivratri day, and the next day it all vanished.

JUST that much. "I" also here narrate a miracle to match any others

may present you with.

 

 

for months because of my own greed, i have been trying this sadhna and

that saahna and perhaps believeing like an idiot that things will not

get OK without them, then perhaps in the process i accumultaed some

good karma, and was again driven to this GOD of all GODs,

no i have not done any sadhna pertaining to him properly

though i plan to, and within a blink again, i have been shown the

mistakes i have made in the past to suffer, and also the direction for

all future happiness-no miracles here some simple pure wisdom.

some callit sanmati.

[Guest guest]

> Of course, they are not. Only those dotcoms with

> poor revenue models

> or those whose only source of revenue was

> advertising while requiring

> investment in millions are going bust.

 

and those with bad and lazy presidents(unlike our

president madam).

>

> Ashish...

>

>

 

 

 

 

Send FREE video emails in Mail!

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[Guest guest]

-

>

> and those with bad and lazy presidents(unlike our

> president madam).

>

you know, vivekanda says somewhere that if you have given a man the

truth, your job is done. let him reason it out himself, and draw his

own conclusions. and i was talking not just to you, but to everyone

present here. but truth too perhaps depends on the frame of reference

you view it from.

 

i have never understood or learnt anything minus my own experiences.

it is not an easy path, but it is interesting. nonethe less it is my

moral obligation to warn others of the mistakes i have made.

 

good wishes

jai gurudev

anu

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Anu!

--- devi_bhagat <devi_bhagat wrote:

> , Yoga man <childofdevi>

> wrote:

> > Namaste Sri Anu!

> >

> namaste,

> > Thanks for being the live wire in the group

> `

> you are welcome. now listen carefully, greed is not

> a good thing

> vijay, be it for yantras or for sadhnas. learn it

> from my few 100

> words mail, or learn it yourself by experience the

> hard way. the

> choice is yours.

> why do you need multiple yantras vijay, some to

> decorate in the

> cupboard, some to wear?? what is your problem?

> are you sure you can treat them all with respect?

> i.e. say a pranaam

> to all of them, show dhoop deep and chant the

> respective mantras daily

> atlest 5 times. if so go ahead. if not, any no. of

> yantras lying at

> home will do you no good.

 

Thank you very much for this heartfelt advice.

>

> without reference to context i wish to say something

> to you.

> money does not buy God, it never did and it never

> will. run miles away

 

I beg to disagree. In my opinion there is no curse

worse than poverty. After all is not money Laxmi

herself. Now the kind of attitude where you hoard up

money and keep it to yourself is a very harmful thing.

Money has nothing good/evil about it. It tends towards

good/evil depending on the intent of the person

handling it. And my position about money is that money

should be earned(honourably and lawfully) to give it

all away.

 

Are you in habit of writing down goals that you want

to achieve in life. Well I have, and I have point by

point list of things I need to do. And my position is

that if there is anything that will lead to achieving

that goal, I would go for it(very practical) as long

as it involves no wrongdoing. So if a specified

sadhana promises me a certain result, then I would go

for it.

 

> from anyone who claims otherwise. he is simply

> exploiting your own

> fears/confusions and situation. mix it with some

> amount of faith

> and devotion,and you will get results. but with it

> will come the very

> dangerous message that they have to be mixed

> together to get results.

>

> if you wish to respect any of the GODS you believe

> in, if you have to

> respect any of the masters you have read, stand up,

> be a lion have the

> courage to face failure if it comes but try devotion

> unpolluted. any

> of the GODs you believe in has in him the metal to

> provide you with

> all you need. only if you have the courage to ask

> yourself.

 

 

You know in one of his books, Yogananda used to say

that one can cure sickness, heal the body, live

without food....provided one knows how to, if not one

should every possible physical means to do.

>

> good wishes

> aum namah shivay

>

> anu

>

> shiva is the GOD from whom all the mantras tantras

> of the world rose.

> Shiva is the GURU of all Gurus in the world, who

> came before or will

> come later. YET this very shiva gets pleased if you

> make a shivling of

 

Ah the Divine Father does not even need that. All he

wants is a heart of love.

> mud pour a lota jal, and provides you with all you

> need. And he is

> impartial, educated or uneducated, rich or poor do

> not matter to him.

>

> in my life long before i discovered sadhans or

> mantras, there came a

> time when i was under so much stress that i almost

> lost my mind. i

> suffered from hallucinations, and all kinds of

> confusions-well the

> reason was tantric prayog if you wish to believe it

> (told by a very

> renouned saint), but fancy names have little meaning

> before GOD or

> even humans, no? Do you know how i got cured, i went

> to a shiva temple

> bowed my head on a shivratri day, and the next day

> it all vanished.

> JUST that much. "I" also here narrate a miracle to

> match any others

> may present you with.

>

 

It is really funny that you mention this incident. I

too had a similar situation and in my case, the

miraculous cure(for a supposedly incurable disease)

happened in just a moment. You must learn to forgive

the person who did this to you- because in some past

life you must have caused him great grievance. What

goes around, comes around. And besides, if it were not

for this person, you would not have come to this great

realisation in the first place.

 

Generally speaking, everyones situation is unique.

Some may or may not benefit from sadhanas, mantras,

pure devotion etc. Just because something worked for

you does not mean that this is the only thing that

works and one should not end up assuming that

everything else is of lesser value.

>

> for months because of my own greed, i have been

> trying this sadhna and

> that saahna and perhaps believeing like an idiot

> that things will not

> get OK without them, then perhaps in the process i

> accumultaed some

> good karma, and was again driven to this GOD of all

> GODs,

> no i have not done any sadhna pertaining to him

> properly

> though i plan to, and within a blink again, i have

> been shown the

> mistakes i have made in the past to suffer, and also

> the direction for

> all future happiness-no miracles here some simple

> pure wisdom.

> some callit sanmati.

>

 

Anyhow, thank you very much for your advice again.

Also I notice that you are a mantra-holic i.e

suggesting mantras, I wish to add that sometimes

constant chanting of mantras can be DANGEROUS; mantra

generally brings out whatever is inside of you. So if

you are a fearful person, the mantra would amplify

that fear especially if that fear is a deep rooted

fear that you do not want to face consciously.

Everyone unself-realized person has such repressions.

That is why it is better to get the mantra from a

satguru as the guru knows what is the best medicine. I

studied for several years with Subramuniya

Swami(www.gurudeva.org) a truly great saint. Usually

when he gave me advice, at the moment it did not

strike me as useful, it is usually one year later that

I realise the significance of what he told me. So he

could see that much ahead. And sometimes, the problem

you are facing cannot be solved by mantra, yantra or

even pure devotion. It is just a plain acceptance of

yourself as is. Siva no doubt likes pure devotion but

Siva likes it even more when you meet Him through the

guru.

 

Aum Namasivaya,

Vijay

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

--- devi_bhagat <devi_bhagat wrote:

> -

> >

> > and those with bad and lazy presidents(unlike our

> > president madam).

> >

> you know, vivekanda says somewhere that if you have

> given a man the

> truth, your job is done. let him reason it out

> himself, and draw his

 

"truth" is person specific. What is "truth" to you may

not apply to someone else. Only a satguru can give the

"TRUTH". and there is no verbalisation in the "TRUTH".

"TRUTH" is a matter of non-comprehension for the

non-knowers.

 

Now I did mention that I was greedy in a couple of

places. I meant this in a harmless, jocular, innocular

vein. So nobody should take this as meaning that I am

budding Mr Scrooge:-).

> own conclusions. and i was talking not just to you,

> but to everyone

> present here. but truth too perhaps depends on the

> frame of reference

> you view it from.

>

> i have never understood or learnt anything minus my

> own experiences.

> it is not an easy path, but it is interesting.

> nonethe less it is my

> moral obligation to warn others of the mistakes i

> have made.

 

This is amply appreciated. This is what our purpose

was originally in discussing about personal

experiences in the spiritual path.

 

Aum namasivaya,

Vijay

>

> good wishes

> jai gurudev

> anu

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>

.. So if a specified

> sadhana promises me a certain result, then I would go

> for it.

 

so would i. did i claim anywhere that you shouldn't?

>

>

>

>

> You know in one of his books, Yogananda used to say

> that one can cure sickness, heal the body, live

> without food....provided one knows how to, if not one

> should every possible physical means to do.

>

> >

 

 

why not?

>

>

> Ah the Divine Father does not even need that. All he

> wants is a heart of love.

>

 

that is more difficult to manufacture than any other commodity.

ment. You must learn to forgive

> the person who did this to you- because in some past

> life you must have .....

 

did i sound like i am complaining to you? i havenever wished this

person ill, and do not have energy to waste in this process.

 

i am sorry i conveyed the wrong impression to you. in some life i

must have....prove it. people who died in the earth quake must

have.....prove it.the girl who got raped on the street must have.....

 

why should i believe what you say because you read it in some book, or

heard it word of mouth. the beauty of karma thoery does not lie in

retrospect it lies in moving ahead. trying to take blame for all that

happens to you, is a superhuman effort to be more than human--it does

not pay.

it only makes a philosopher out of you.

 

at this is the only thing that

> works and one should not end up assuming that

> everything else is of lesser value.

>

> >

 

definitely not. everybody has their own path to tread.

>

> Anyhow, thank you very much for your advice again.

> Also I notice that you are a mantra-holic i.e

> suggesting mantras, I wish to add that sometimes

> constant chanting of mantras can be DANGEROUS;

 

i rarely do anything....

mantra

> Siva no doubt likes pure devotion but

> Siva likes it even more when you meet Him through the

> guru.

> may the good lord bless you, as well as me. as for shiva let him

decide for himself. it is possible that he likes one thing from you,

and another from me.

 

at this is the only thing that

> works and one should not end up assuming that

> everything else is of lesser value.

 

good wishes

 

jaigurudev

 

 

anu

 

 

 

 

://promo./videomail/

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Anu!

 

I appeared to have singed nerves. If I did say

something incisive, please forgive me- it was not done

intentionally.

> that is more difficult to manufacture than any other

> commodity.

 

Which is why it is better for many people to be doing

this and that sadhana when the heart is barren inside.

> ment. You must learn to forgive

> > the person who did this to you- because in some

> past

> > life you must have .....

>

> did i sound like i am complaining to you? i

> havenever wished this

 

I am again sorry to ponitificate. I did have ill-will

for a long time, so I thought you would also.

> person ill, and do not have energy to waste in this

> process.

>

> i am sorry i conveyed the wrong impression to you.

> in some life i

> must have....prove it. people who died in the earth

> quake must

> have.....prove it.the girl who got raped on the

> street must have.....

>

> why should i believe what you say because you read

> it in some book, or

> heard it word of mouth. the beauty of karma thoery

> does not lie in

> retrospect it lies in moving ahead. trying to take

> blame for all that

> happens to you, is a superhuman effort to be more

> than human--it does

> not pay.

 

Ah. I could not agree with you any less. karma truly

is for moving forward. But it is very easy to say drop

the past and move forward. It is unresolved issues

from the past that shapes the future. Taking control

of your life is essentially reconciling with the past.

If you have totally reconciled with the past, then you

would be self-realised.

 

Again I want to reiterate that I did not mean to say

anything incisive.

 

 

Aum Namasivaya,

Vijay

> it only makes a philosopher out of you.

>

> at this is the only thing that

> > works and one should not end up assuming that

> > everything else is of lesser value.

> >

> > >

>

> definitely not. everybody has their own path to

> tread.

>

> >

> > Anyhow, thank you very much for your advice again.

> > Also I notice that you are a mantra-holic i.e

> > suggesting mantras, I wish to add that sometimes

> > constant chanting of mantras can be DANGEROUS;

>

> i rarely do anything....

> mantra

> > Siva no doubt likes pure devotion but

> > Siva likes it even more when you meet Him through

> the

> > guru.

>

> > may the good lord bless you, as well as me. as for

> shiva let him

> decide for himself. it is possible that he likes one

> thing from you,

> and another from me.

>

> at this is the only thing that

> > works and one should not end up assuming that

> > everything else is of lesser value.

>

> good wishes

>

> jaigurudev

>

>

> anu

>

>

>

>

> ://promo./videomail/

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> Thank you very much for this heartfelt advice.

>

> >

> > without reference to context i wish to say something

> > to you.

> > money does not buy God, it never did and it never

> > will.

>

> I beg to disagree.

 

meanwhile,

also accept my heart felt good luck, when you go on this mission.

 

good wishes

good bye

jai GURUDEV

 

anu

[Guest guest]

, Yoga man <childofdevi> wrote:

> Namaste Sri Anu!

>

>

> > that is more difficult to manufacture than any other

> > commodity.

>

> Which is why it is better for many people to be doing

> this and that sadhana when the heart is barren inside.

>

 

no, brother, not this and that, only this , this and none other till

you succeed at it.

then move on to the next.

 

> Ah. I could not agree with you any less. karma truly

> is for moving forward. But it is very easy to say drop

> the past and move forward.

 

that is true, but do we have a choice?

you can either move on, or die and be born again to carry the remining

karma, may be in a worse situation.

 

a few days ago, i faced hell lot of problems that shaped my life. i

really had to push myself to carry. i went to a friend to chatter. and

told him i would commit suicide but i do not like the idea of becoming

a ghost and sitting on a tree perhaps hanging upside down. i like my

centrally heated room a lot more.....jokes apart, there really is no

escape. you do not even have a guarantee that you will be born human

leave other things alone.

NOthing goes with you, your "beautiful" body, your "intelligent" head,

your "education", this that...

all that you take with you is tendencies. habits, character. make them

so strong now that in whatever situation GOD places you you are able

to take the direction best then and there.

 

>

> Again I want to reiterate that I did not mean to say

> anything incisive.

>

 

i fully appreciate that. BUt there is only 1 question: how do you

distinguish a sadguru from a Pseudoguru??

 

anyway, perhaps even that is not relevant.

 

kabir says in a beautiful bhajan

 

das kabir har kr Gun gave bahar koi paar na paye.

Guru ki karni, guru jayega, chele ki karni chela.

 

==>>> gurus if pseudo are also not above the law of karma,. they will

have to pay for it. whereas a chela even if he is truely devoted to a

psuedoguru will also see the light by the grace of the again the GOD

of all GODs...

jaigurudev

 

anu

[Guest guest]

, Yoga man <childofdevi> wrote:

> daer vijay,

> "truth" is person specific. What is "truth" to you may

> not apply to someone else. Only a satguru can give the

> "TRUTH". and there is no verbalisation in the "TRUTH".

> "TRUTH" is a matter of non-comprehension for the

> non-knowers.

> thank you for the reminder that i am not a SADGURU, not that i had

any illiusions. there are two prayers i say to my GOD wherever he is

1) may i never get the power to curse another human being no matter

what he does to me

2)that i may never be placed in a position in life where i have power

over other human beings to such an extent that they consider me above

or close to GOD, because i do not have the confidence taht i will be

able to make good use of it.

 

however,remember one thing. GOD or GUru or whatever you choose to call

him, does not have to make an appearance everytime there is a

comfusion. sometimes it comes as a idea in your head, sometims if you

are well tumed you may hear the voice of a saint, or sometimes you may

hear him from you friends, family everywhere.

 

 

so even if i am not a sadguru, it does not directlty imply that my

statement is false. the chances of my statement being false are very

high if my ego comes in between however, and the chances of your not

receiving it are high if your ego comes in between.

and vice versa is equally true, that is why

 

you wrote i bow to the divine in you....

 

good wishes

jai gurudev

anu

 

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[Guest guest]

> >

>

Namaste!

 

The question that I had was many different yantras was

a fixation of the past. I just wanted to know if this

was true or not(after is not that the purpose of this

discussion board). You are right, in my current

situation I did not need any of them. In fact on one

of the pages at siddashram.org, it was said that you

could throw away all yantras and fall at the feet of

the guru(you might begin to begrudge the fact that I

am a guru-fanatic). Accepting a guru in no way lessens

you mantle or willpower, it just makes things easier.

>

> > Ah. I could not agree with you any less. karma

> truly

> > is for moving forward. But it is very easy to say

> drop

> > the past and move forward.

>

> that is true, but do we have a choice?

 

we always have choices, albeit heavily weighted ones.

> a few days ago, i faced hell lot of problems that

> shaped my life. i

> really had to push myself to carry. i went to a

> friend to chatter. and

> told him i would commit suicide but i do not like

> the idea of becoming

> a ghost and sitting on a tree perhaps hanging upside

> down. i like my

> centrally heated room a lot more.....jokes apart,

> there really is no

 

I am really sorry to hear that you had a difficult

situation. And am glad that you came out stronger in

the end. When you are at a dead end, the only thing

that will work is prayer. Praying is almost always

successful at the critical juncture. But how often can

you pray like that?

 

Anyhow suicide is the worst possible thing that you do

to accumulate karma. So please hereafter do not even

talk about it.

 

> escape. you do not even have a guarantee that you

> will be born human

> leave other things alone.

> NOthing goes with you, your "beautiful" body, your

> "intelligent" head,

> your "education", this that...

> all that you take with you is tendencies. habits,

> character. make them

> so strong now that in whatever situation GOD places

> you you are able

 

Yep! We make them or we break them or we keep them.

> to take the direction best then and there.

>

>

> >

> > Again I want to reiterate that I did not mean to

> say

> > anything incisive.

> >

>

> i fully appreciate that. BUt there is only 1

> question: how do you

> distinguish a sadguru from a Pseudoguru??

 

No doubt there are a lot of charlatans who pose as

gurus. In fact there was this guru Premamanda from

Tamil Nadu who was arrested becausing in his big

ashram he was in the habit of raping women and then

jailing them! At the time, a lot of genuinely

spiritual people were greatly saddenened.

 

For a genuine sadguru, first thing I would look at the

devotees. So I was testing the waters on this list for

sometime. And it seemed to me that I did meet some

genuine people.

Apparently you have not had any inner experiences with

Gurudev(correct me if I am wrong)- that could mean a

number of reasons. Generally speaking, a genuine guru

shines like the sun. There is no hiding his spiritual

grandeur. There may be ordinary people who have no

such grandeur but nonetheless are spiritual giants.

When you are in a crisis, praying to the guru can give

spectacular results for after all is not guru the

intermediary between God and yourself. Well I am sure

that everyone has a personal story of how the guru

came into his life and really the answer to your

question is that is something endemic to each

individual(not much of an answer).

 

Now I wondering in the couplet by Kabir that you

translated, if he meant to add another one saying that

genuine guru+genuine sadhak>> false guru+ genuine

sadhak

 

Perhaps you are aware that Kabir himself was the

result of the grace of his guru Ramamanda. So that

pretty much speaks of the guru's grace.

 

Aum Namasivaya,

Vijay

 

>

> anyway, perhaps even that is not relevant.

>

> kabir says in a beautiful bhajan

>

> das kabir har kr Gun gave bahar koi paar na paye.

> Guru ki karni, guru jayega, chele ki karni chela.

>

> ==>>> gurus if pseudo are also not above the law of

> karma,. they will

> have to pay for it. whereas a chela even if he is

> truely devoted to a

> psuedoguru will also see the light by the grace of

> the again the GOD

> of all GODs...

> jaigurudev

>

> anu

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>

> so even if i am not a sadguru, it does not directlty

> imply that my

> statement is false. the chances of my statement

> being false are very

> high if my ego comes in between however, and the

> chances of your not

> receiving it are high if your ego comes in between.

> and vice versa is equally true, that is why

 

Ah! The ego is truly the enemy. If it were not for the

ego, there would be no need for the satguru. Most of

us have a great deal of ego consciousness- the ego is

truly shattered only after self-realisation.

 

You are looking at your situation probably from an

individual perspective but from a truly cosmic

viewpoint what is it that I need to do? That a satguru

tells me.

 

Again these are my own opinions...

 

Aum Namasivaya,

Vijay

>

> you wrote i bow to the divine in you....

>

> good wishes

> jai gurudev

> anu

>

> ahoo.com/videomail/

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

JAI GURUDEV

Dear Vijay...

> I wish to add that sometimes constant chanting of mantras can be

> DANGEROUS; mantra generally brings out whatever is inside of you.

> So if you are a fearful person, the mantra would amplify that fear

> especially if that fear is a deep rooted fear that you do not want

> to face consciously.

 

I TOTALLY and COMPLETELY DISAGREE with you. Nothing of that sort can

happen if a mantra is chanted constantly. I request you not to spread

such negative ideas about mantras and sadhanas. My experience tells

me that if you are a fearful person, constant chanting of mantra will

teach you to boldly face and iradicate it once and for all.

 

Ashish...

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ashish!

 

Ok! I will desist from making such statements. I

myself am a constant mantra chanter regardless of what

I have inside. The statement that I made was with

reference to a very few group of people who have

violent kundalini symptoms- such people are generally

not under the guidance of a guru(who would prevent

such things happenings) and the first thing they are

asked to do is to stop chanting.

 

Aum Namasivaya

Vijay

 

 

 

 

 

--- nikhilashish <nikhilashish wrote:

> JAI GURUDEV

> Dear Vijay...

>

> > I wish to add that sometimes constant chanting of

> mantras can be

> > DANGEROUS; mantra generally brings out whatever is

> inside of you.

> > So if you are a fearful person, the mantra would

> amplify that fear

> > especially if that fear is a deep rooted fear that

> you do not want

> > to face consciously.

>

> I TOTALLY and COMPLETELY DISAGREE with you. Nothing

> of that sort can

> happen if a mantra is chanted constantly. I request

> you not to spread

> such negative ideas about mantras and sadhanas. My

> experience tells

> me that if you are a fearful person, constant

> chanting of mantra will

> teach you to boldly face and iradicate it once and

> for all.

>

> Ashish...

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

---pparently you have not had any inner experiences with

Gurudev(correct me if I am wrong)- that could mean a

number of reasons.

 

 

>

> Ok! I will desist from making such statements. I

> myself am a constant mantra chanter regardless of what

> I have inside. The statement that I made was with

> reference to a very few group of people who have

> violent kundalini symptoms- such people are generally

> not under the guidance of a guru(who would prevent

> such things happenings) and the first thing they are

> asked to do is to stop chanting.

>

>

thank you. but what made you think that my spiritual quest was

unguided?

 

it is a sign of defeat when you start making personal allegations for

which you have neither rhyme nor reason, what do you mean by a inner

experience?

 

of course i have had some spiritual experiences like all here but what

is so great about it any case, as rohit put across they are universal?

to me nothing short of my guru appearing right before me in person and

talking to me directly is enough. dreams are not enough. and no it has

not happened yet.

 

in any case, i totally admire your quest for a master and i admit i

cannot equal it.

so you win.

 

good wishes

good bye

jai gurudev

 

anu

[Guest guest]

dear anu and dear vijayP

 

> anyway, perhaps even that is not relevant.

>

> kabir says in a beautiful bhajan

>

> das kabir har kr Gun gave bahar koi paar na paye.

> Guru ki karni, guru jayega, chele ki karni chela.

>

> ==>>> gurus if pseudo are also not above the law of karma,. they

will

> have to pay for it. whereas a chela even if he is truely devoted to

a

> psuedoguru will also see the light by the grace of the again the

GOD

> of all GODs...

 

 

hmm the discussion was good, so what i would like to tell from my

experiences is that, both are true from ur own perspectives ,

i agree to both of u, but what kabir told is absolute truth , its

nice that both of u agree with it, and when a realised person like

kabir tells ,it is truth.

 

 

anu conclusion of power of other beings is also a visible truth to

her, which no one can deny, i too having similar experiences for past

quiet few days which is a shock to me, but the person in reference,

is still i feel a gentle soul, though probably not of a sadguru

stature, but i for past few yrs beleived him as a sadguru only, so am

taken aback. but my bhavana to him always was a sadguru, so for past

few yrs i have based faith in what he said and things worked directly

or indirectly, now also i dont feel its untrue, but i am currently

under the guidance of a master, who told me the nature of sadguru,

and when i superimpose onto the person of reference, he seems not to

posses that qualities, then i asked my current master as to how

should i believe it, he only told that whenever u are in difficulty

go to him, and u will make out the difference. so the point to note

is overtly/covertly also people may be good but you cant tell wheter

one is a sadguru or not so easily, so i have left my confusion to

lord himself, by Gods grace i have learnt to worship/see lord as

one who is TATTVA and who is in everything,so kind of cooly able

to withstand the shock , but my faith for my lord is always/will be

there and is beyond name and form.it will remain that he is love and

that he will not mislead and misguide me , i believe in his grace

whatever my experiences are(good/bad), i believe he is noble one, and

we cant judge or measure him by our limited minds, so there is no

solution to this is faith in him( ill later post how to faith),

i really feel that one should be very fortunate and higly be yearning

to get a sadguru.

one thing i believe wfhatt vijay told abt a sadguru is a lion and

sincere

aspirant will get him, if has faith in the lord(whoever the lord may

be as long as i can submit to the lord completly)

 

lion when it roars u can make out, the terror it strikes ,

so sincere aspirant is the key, there are always signals out there

where a sincere aspirant can catch (of a sadguru signal), lord

gives signals always. people in their own goals lost cant catch it,

but a sincere aspirant can catch it, take vivekanda he had only goal

was if some can show him the lord no one could satisfy him except

ramakrishna paramahams so he too didnt show him the lord immediately

the reply that ramakrsihna parmahamsa gave to vivekanda hit him

directly.so when a child cries mother has to come wherever she is.

mother cant miss the childs cry.

 

 

affectionately

Jai Gurudev

 

so u see things work as long as ur sincere aspirant having faith in

lord that he will/is leading u.

[Guest guest]

--- devi_bhagat <devi_bhagat wrote:

> ---pparently you have not had any inner experiences

> with

> Gurudev(correct me if I am wrong)-

> that could mean a

> number of reasons.

>

>

>

> >

> > Ok! I will desist from making such statements. I

> > myself am a constant mantra chanter regardless of

> what

> > I have inside. The statement that I made was with

> > reference to a very few group of people who have

> > violent kundalini symptoms- such people are

> generally

> > not under the guidance of a guru(who would prevent

> > such things happenings) and the first thing they

> are

> > asked to do is to stop chanting.

> >

> >

> thank you. but what made you think that my spiritual

> quest was

> unguided?

 

OOps sorry anu! I should be really be thrashed for

making such statements. It is just that when you asked

me what the difference between a satguru and

pseudoguru is I foolishly made the assumption that you

did not have any of the experiences mentioned. Again

forgive this lowly contemptile creature.

>

> it is a sign of defeat when you start making

> personal allegations for

> which you have neither rhyme nor reason, what do you

> mean by a inner

> experience?

 

Yes I do accept defeat. I will define an inner

experience as something definitive had come from your

teacher and I will also add that most people would

keep their truly inner experience to themselves. Since

this varies from person to person, I dont know how to

define this.

>

> of course i have had some spiritual experiences like

> all here but what

> is so great about it any case, as rohit put across

> they are universal?

> to me nothing short of my guru appearing right

> before me in person and

> talking to me directly is enough. dreams are not

> enough. and no it has

> not happened yet.

 

Your stong resolution in indeed admirable and I wish

you success in it. May I ask what prompted you to want

this? Also I must add that this has been done by many

people and will be done.

>

> in any case, i totally admire your quest for a

> master and i admit i

> cannot equal it.

> so you win.

 

There is no winning or loosing. You took a step

forward and I took a step backward. At the end of the

journey, all are winnners.

 

Aum Namasivaya,

Vijay

>

> good wishes

> good bye

> jai gurudev

>

> anu

>

>

 

 

 

 

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