Guest guest Report post Posted April 30, 2003 sir, i accept all the views expressed.iam also convinced that narayana is the parabrahmam and the supreme god. but in that case there is no need for krishna, who is an avatar of vishnu to say that ' IAM VISHNU' AMONG ADITYAS. he could have said i am narayana. also he says to arjuna that he is showing him the vishvaroopam because of his yogic power and not because he is an avatar of vishnu. in the same geeta krishna says the yoghis can see him in the real form.when he spoke to arjuna in geeta, krishna spoke as narayana the parabrahma and not as vishnu.there were many avatars of vishnu. in that ramavatar is quite facinating because in that rama behaves like any other human being.he did not behave like an avatar.he was an ideal and noble king who ruled the kingdom.if rama was narayana then where is the requirement of he having to get the help of other devatas in his fight against ravana. by all this my point of arguement is narayana is the parabrahmam and is represented by the 'ohm'. all other devatas including vishnu are anyadevatas who derive their power from ohm. that is why we call narayana as om namo narayana. no one calls vishnu as om vishnu. i dont know if iam right or wrong please parden me. balaji Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 1, 2003 > [...] > by all this my point of arguement is narayana is the parabrahmam > and is represented by the 'ohm'. all other devatas including vishnu > are anyadevatas who derive their power from ohm. > [...] > balaji > ) As many may be aware, the famous vedic pancha-SAnti unambiguously identify the Brahman with nArAyaNa, vAsudeva, vishNu, lakshmI-pati & hari. Thus vishNu is not an anya-devata and vishNu remains untouched by karma and so unlike anya-devata-s, the praNavam would directly refer to vishNu, kRshNa, rAmA, nRsimha and His other avatAra-s. ) Sometimes SrIman-nArAyaNa Himself directly takes up a cosmological position such as a manu, a prajApati, or an Aditya normally filled by a jIva. "tata: tvam-api durdharsha: tasmad-bhAvat sanAtanAt | rakshArtham sarva-bhUtAnAm vishNu tvam upajagmivAn || " -- SrI vAlmIki rAmAyaNam 2.101.26 Meaning: catur-mukha-brahmA said to vishNu, "At my request, You the insurmountable Supreme Self, incarnated as vishNu amidst Siva & myself in order to protect all." But nArAyaNa remains untouched by karma when He assumes an avatAram. Interestingly mahA-bhAratha talks about catur-muka-brahma & rudra as being positions to a bondaged jIvAtmA is elevated upon performance of special yAgha-s. but there is no such reference to vishNu as being a position attained to by a jIva. "yuga-kOTi-sahasrANi vishNum-ArAdhya padma-bhU: | punas-trailOkya-dhAtRtvam prAptavAn-iti SuSRuma || " -- mahA bhAratham, kuNTataropAkyAnam Meaning: Worshipping Lord VishNu one thousand million yuga-s, catur-mukha-brahmA attained the ability to create the three Worlds. "mahA-deva: sarva-medhe mahAtmA hutvA AtmAnam deva-deva: babhUva " -- bhAratham, SAnti-parvam 20.12 Meaning: Having performed sarva-medha-yAgam, mahA-deva (ie Siva) then achieved greatness amongst deva-s. "sa-brahmakA: sa-rudrA: ca sendrA devA maha-rshaya: | arcayanti sura-SreshTham devam nArAyaNam harim" || -- bhAratham, Santi-parvam 350.30 Meaning: All catur-mukha-brahmA, Siva, indra, deva-s & rshi-s worship nArAyaNa a.k.a hari, the highest amongst them. Above are just a few from the long list of pramAnam-s quoted by svAmi Srimat vedAnta deSika to help us understand that vishNu (=SrIman-nArAyaNa) is the Highest worshipable Truth. rAmAnuja-dAsan //Ramkumar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 1, 2003 dear sir, additi had 12 sons and one of them is vishnu and he was the king of all.they were all called adityar.(authority vayu puranam and garuda puranam).he says next he is suryan(sun) among planets.he also says he is sankaran(parameswaran) among rudhras(out of 12 rudhras) in chapter 8 sloka 12 he says about the letter ohm. he says it represents the nirguna brahmam.i do not know yet what this means. but one thing is clear ie the parabrahmam does not have any form even though we call it as narayana. all other gods are part of it.we worship mahavishnu in the form of narayana.same way others worship shiva,shakti,murugan etc.by this i want to know if we can worship mahavishnu as narayana what is wrong in worshipping other devatas. regards balajibhakti-list, "Lakshmi Narasimhan" <nrusimhan@h...> wrote: > Shrimathe Ramanujaya Namaha **************** [Rest of included mail deleted---Moderator] **************** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 1, 2003 Dear Sri Balaji, Lord's Names are classified as 'Vyapaka' and "Avyapaka' Mantras. Vyapaka names brings out Lord's all pervading nature and his swaroopam also. 'Avyapaka' names portray his Lelas and Gunas of his one or more of his avatharams. Sri Vaishnava Poorvacharyas consider that Vyapaka mantras are important than Avyapaka names , and within 'Vayapaka' names , only 3 vyapaka names are most important. They are 'Narayana', 'Vishnu' and 'Vasudeva'. You can find them in Vishnu Gayatri. "Narayanaye Vidmahe Vasudevaya Dheemahi Thanno Visnhu Prajothayat" out of this 3 vyapaka mantras, 'Narayana' saptham is considered more important because 1. The Nama 'Vishnu' only brings out Lord's all pervading nature and does not bring out his Gunas. 2. Similarly, the 'Vasudeva' saptham bring out the meaning that all are 'in Him' ('Sarvam vasathi- Vasudeva") but again fails in revealing his gunas. 3. Narayana saptham brings out his roopam, gunam and vyapthi (this post is not enough to explain this. Please refer to old archives in Bhakthi list or talk to learned Sri Vasinava on the meaning) in your another post, you have written like Parabrahman does not have any gunas. Even learned adavaitic gurus like Sri Krishna Premi swamigal does not accept these views. For instance, In Sri Vishnu Purnam, Sri Vyasa defines meaning of 'Bhagavan', - means the one who has immeasurable Aiswarya, Vairaygya and Knowledge. This is again confirmed in various upakyanas in Srimad Bhagavatam. (For instance in Gajendra stuti, even though Gajandra starts with 'Nirvishesha brahman' addressing as ' Namo Akila karanaya, nish karanaya... etc, he switches over to glorification of gunas and attributes after seeing Him) The devotees of anya devatas are called as in their names while devotees of Sriman Narayana are called 'Bhagvatas' The gita of all the demi Gods are called in their respective while Lord's Gita is called as 'Bhagvat Gita' I suggest you to read Srimad Bhagavatam and various commentaries on Sri Bhagavat Gita before deciding if Lord has any gunas. If he does not have any gunas, he shall not be the object of worship by many Bhagavatas . Regards Kazhiyur M Narayanan - "balajiv_54" <balajiv_54 <bhakti-list> Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:23 AM meaning of pranavam > sir, > > i accept all the views expressed.iam also convinced that narayana is > the parabrahmam and the supreme god. but in that case there is no > need for krishna, who is an avatar of vishnu to say that ' IAM > VISHNU' AMONG ADITYAS. he could have said i am narayana. also he says > to arjuna that he is showing him the vishvaroopam because of his > yogic power and not because he is an avatar of vishnu. in the same > geeta krishna says the yoghis can see him in the real form.when he > spoke to arjuna in geeta, krishna spoke as narayana the parabrahma > and not as vishnu.there were many avatars of vishnu. in that > ramavatar is quite facinating because in that rama behaves like any > other human being.he did not behave like an avatar.he was an ideal > and noble king who ruled the kingdom.if rama was narayana then where > is the requirement of he having to get the help of other devatas in > his fight against ravana. > by all this my point of arguement is narayana is the parabrahmam and > is represented by the 'ohm'. all other devatas including vishnu are > anyadevatas who derive their power from ohm. that is why we call > narayana as om namo narayana. no one calls vishnu as om vishnu. > > i dont know if iam right or wrong please parden me. > > balaji > > > > ----------------------------- > - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - > To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list > Group Home: bhakti-list > Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/ > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
