should beginners attend guruji pract

[Guest guest]

Hi, Alan.<br><br>Well, sure it's not smart to do

advanced postures without preparation. I guess I missed

your point.<br><br>What I'm trying to say is that you

can hurt yourself in yoga (and maybe even more so on

ashtanga, given the tremendous energy the practice

unleashes) even if you are being reasonably careful. It

takes some time to develop enough body awareness to

know when a bit more effort is going to be too

much.<br><br>I'm not bothered by the fact that you can get hurt in

yoga even if your are careful. (A careful

mountain-bike rider can get hurt -- this doesn't mean

mountain-bike riding is a bad thing.) What worries me is that

people won't ACKNOWLEDGE that you can get hurt in yoga

-- that you can get hurt when being adjusted even by

careful and experienced teachers, etc.<br><br>By the way,

Alan, did you attend the Deveroux/BNS yoga event this

summer? How was it?<br><br>Peace and Good,<br>Homer

[Guest guest]

I won't identify my friend (I doubt he would mind

but I have not consulted him) but I will describe his

situation.<br><br>He was in upavishta konasana at his maximum stretch,

with his chest about six inches off the ground.

Without warning Sharath came up behind him and pushed his

chest to the floor, causing an "agonizing" tear --

hamstring I think. My friend reported the injury (to Sri

KPJ I believe) and was told: "An opening -- good!" He

required six months to recover from this

"opening."<br><br>He's not bitter, but the characterization of injuries

as "openings" rankles him somewhat. He remains a

very serious yogi but no longer practices Ashtanga

(for reasons unrelated to Mysore

incident).<br><br>This was all at least five years ago. Things may have

changed in Mysore since then.<br><br>Peace and

Good,<br>Homer

[Guest guest]

for those concerned about harsh adjustments, if

you are going to one of the workshops why not tell

sharat or guruji before class that you have an injury

and are concerned about adjustments. Stop any

miscommunication beforehand. I'm sure your wishes will be

respected.

[Guest guest]

"I wasn't trying to imply that my injury was his

fault."<br><br>Oh, okay, I misunderstood. Never mind.<br><br>"I

think it's human nature that, those things we can do

easily, we have a hard time understanding those who have

difficulty doing those same things."<br><br>I think you are

absolutely right.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the details Homer.

[Guest guest]

<<What worries me is that people won't

ACKNOWLEDGE that you can get hurt in yoga --

....>><br><br>And those who do not acknowledge it as such are

abusers of the person who is injured! A dangerous group

think.

[Guest guest]

Shining skull, <br>i have been practising

ashtanga for about 2 years, i do enjoy the cardio vascular

excercise, breathing and streching combined. I am noticing

that parts of my body are chronically sore and am

backing off a little. with regards to sri pattabhi jois

and being "scared" i wouldn't characterize my emotion

as scared, more as tentative. <br><br>after hearing

a few of the instructors i know say that they were

injured in mysore i am trying to collect more

information.<br><br>summary on this board seems to be the

following.<br><br>1) at puck building in ny there will be hundereds of

peopld (200) so guruji will not get much of chance to

touch you.<br><br>2)even if he does and it takes you to

places that you don't want to go, you can indicate this

vocally.<br><br>3)guruji is a nice man and would never intentionally

injure, so don't worry.<br><br>4)watch the ego, its the

ego that injures itself rather than guruji's

adjustments.<br><br>5)lots of stories of people who were injured by

adjustments, and some stories of guruji seeming to say that

the injury was part of the process.<br><br>btw i am

reassesing if ashtanga is a practice that i want to

continue, i used to practise sivananda yoga for many years.

when i first tried ashtanga i liked it cause it gives

cardio and strength much more than the sivananda

practice that i did. also the emphasis on bandhas and

ujjayi breathing is interesting. the physical injury

associated with ashtanga make me wonder.<br><br>compared to

other forms of yoga it seems that there is a lot more

"macho" associated with ashtanga, everyone always seems

to want to get to a position, and guruji adjusting

you to get there is a little funny, especially if it

injures. other yogi''s of the same vintage as sri k

pattabhi jois that i have met, ( i haven't met him sri

jois yet) have told me not to worry about getting

anywhere, there is nowhere to get to! they often quote the

gita " to action alone do you have a right, never at

all to its results" this seems very close to guruji's

"practice and all is coming" but the adjustments and

injuries seem contrary to this philosophy.<br><br>long

post sorry!

[Guest guest]

Sixtinain - Omboy clone <br><br>Not a very sattvic post, but quite

representative of the tamasic nature of your posts.<br><br>Serve. Love. Give.

Purify. Meditate. Realize.<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

Shiny<br><br>Every hatha yoga teacher that I

know, including the Sivananda and Ashtanga Vinyasa

ones, have injured themselves because they fail to

follow their own advice that they give to students;

viz., Listen to your body, stay within your mental and

physical limits and keep the ego in check. <br><br>In

addition, I agree with the comments about having the focus

to refuse adjustments with grace. <br><br>Also, I

don't see much nervousness or envy in yoga teachers who

do not follow the ashtanga-vinyasa approach

regarding the popularity of the ashtanga-vinyasa approach.

Presumably because they recognize the validity of their

chosen approach for them.<br><br>I do encounter fear and

nervousness over the popularity of all types of yoga from

aerobics/fitness instructors. These people are desperately trying

to incorporate yoga postures into their fitness

routines in an attempt to look 'with it'. I encourage them

to take a Yoga Teacher's Training Course to learn

how to teach asana/pranayama correctly and to

discover the context into which asana/pranayama fits. I

remind them that they had to be certified as Fitness

Teachers before they were allowed to teach and have to be

re-certified annually. Then I ask if they agree that they

should also be certified as yoga teachers if they intend

to incorporate yoga into their teachings. Of course,

most of them, say, 'No" and just continue trying to

learn about the asanas from books and the

internet.<br><br>But, who knows, if you make those obsevations and ask

those questions often enough, perhaps the governing

body for fitness teachers might eventually

listen.<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

Last summer in France I was having serious neck

problems. I decided to attend guruji's practice anyway and

told him and Sarnath that I couldn't do certain asanas

like Setu Bandasana. They totally respected my wishes.

I never had to do setu bandasana and guruji and

sarnath accepted it compassionately.<br><br>Yeshe

[Guest guest]

Homer,<br>Though we must always work with best

intentions, great care must be taken that our words and

actions are indeed correct and pure. Otherwise, our

efforts and words can be tainted by ego, fear and

ignorance and become merely a disservice.<br>That is the

position we find ourselves when we engage in spreading

second-hand news about "close" injured yoga friends who blame

the guru and give up the practice. We are spreading

gossip.<br>Homer, you have been quick to distance yourself from

Pattabhi Jois with comments like: He hurts people! and I

don't buy in to the guru thing!<br>Realize that

Pattabhi Jois is the yogi who filled the cup from which

you so love to drink.<br>Is it fair to speak of him

in such a way without having direct experience of

him? Isn't Ashtanga yoga itself a path of direct

experience? <br>I shared the sadden heart of dear Cynxir,

who, after being in the light of the guru for a week,

wondered what possessed others to cast such

aspersions.<br><br>Your broadcast of such damp opinions of this great

master produce only smoke, not the light you

intended.<br><br>Dean

[Guest guest]

To my teacher Dean, from whom I have learned so

much:<br><br>True, I don't fully to the guru tradition, at

least not in a hardcore sense. This makes me open to

the possibility that a yoga teacher, even a supremely

skilled (perhaps even self-realized) yoga teacher, can

make a mistake. I would hope that even those who

follow a guru can accept such a possibility.<br><br>You

take me to task for making a negative remark (hardly

negative, though: my point was that yoga itself is a bit

dangerous, not that guruji is the problem) about Sri Jois

without having experienced him personally. Yet in your

post you make a negative remark about my friend who

was injured in Mysore, without having expereinced HIM

personally. You can't have it both ways.<br><br>For my part,

I have experienced my friend's integrity in a

direct way over a period of years. I have not

experienced Guruji. Whom am I to believe?<br><br>But must I

really choose whom to believe? To my knowledge, Guruji

has not stated that he has NEVER given an adjustment

that resulted in injury. <br><br>In the absence of

such a statement, my choice is between my friend who

says he was injured on the one hand but harbors no

bitterness, and on the other hand folks like FBL who blast

away at anyone who raises the possibility that guruji

or sharath or other certified teachers could be

party to an injury. In that event, I choose the account

of my friend, whose integrity I have experienced

directly over the years, over the rather vitriolic claims

of FBL.<br><br>Your Student and Still (Hopefully)

Your Friend,<br>Homer