should beginners attend guruji pract

[Guest guest]

I think you should definitely attend but you know

your injuries or difficult spots so go easy.

Definitely GO! When else will you get this opportunity

unless you fly to India!? Guruji is also in his eighties

and you never know when he may stop teaching or

travelling. Last year I went in NY and I was a bit out of

practice. I couldn't go every day but did what I could. At

the workshop there were people of all levels and

abilities. There was much inspiration to be found. I don't

know if you are in NY but this workshop will be in a

ballroom in the Puck Bldg. It is a very big space and with

so many people Guruji cannot get to everyone. If you

sit in the back he'll probably never adjust you. You

have to have a hug from him...you have to go!!!

[Guest guest]

also, last year in NY they allowed walk-ins so

you did not have to buy the $200/week pass. it was

$40/class and you pay on arrival. This way you can take 1 2

3 or whatever classes a week. The space was so

large that they could accomodate walk-ins.

[Guest guest]

Absolutely you should go - the atmosphere is

tremendous. I had a bad knee when I went last year, and had

no problem with Guruji's adjustments. There were

total beginners there, and as far as I could see he

really enjoyed working with them.

[Guest guest]

My only concern is that he is known for harsh adjustments, and could potentially

injure, is this true? is he easier on beginners?

[Guest guest]

i was in the back of the hall and never got an adjustment from guruji. Sharath

(sp.??) adjusted me and I had no problem.

[Guest guest]

i guess that is good, anyone know how guruji approaches more stiff people (i

have been practising ashtanga for 2 years or so and other kinds of yoga for many

many more)

[Guest guest]

>From what I have witnessed during this week is

that Guruji has a really soft touch when adjusting

people; he doesn't pull suddenly or step hard on you. He

seems to measure people up and then adjust according to

their needs. And, if the living legend and master of

this flavor of Yoga doesn't know his adjustments, then

who does?<br><br>My left knee is a total wreck and

when he helped me in Marichyasana D it was just a

light step on the right knee to keep it down and then a

slight tug on the wrist to help me bind. No force used

anywhere. And there's this rumour about the healing

qualities of his presence and I can testify. :-) I went to

the workshop with a blown knee and a healing shoulder

and on the first day my knee snapped back into place

and my sholder has been stronger than ever!

<br><br>Also Sharath and Saraswati seem to be having a really

soft yet sure touch. And I have seen all of them

helping REALLY stiff people, who have survived, and are

coming back day after day. :-D<br> <br>Go, it does

wonders to your practise.

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone who have been encouraging

about beginners going to the workshop with Guruji! I

have been given some negative input, like you have to

know the entire primary series to practice (which

obviously is not true from everyone's report here!). And

it's also good learn that Guruji's adjustments are not

as hard as the rumours! I was feeling rather

skeptical about Guruji's arrival, due to the above

discouraging things, but now am feeling excited to practice

under his guidance.

[Guest guest]

Well, I can't claim any miracle cures for the bad

knee I had at Patthabi Jois' workshop in NY last year,

but I certainly had no problems with his adjustments

- powerful but sensitive. For example, both hands

on my back taking me right down in janu a - but a

cunning foot tucked underneath my bad knee

first.<br><br>See message number 938 for the definitive word on

this subject

[Guest guest]

Where did you get this 'information' about guruji

making viscious adjustments? I have never, ever met

anyone who actually practices ashtanga or who has spent

time with Guruji in Mysore or elsewhere make this

preposterous claim. The only people I have heard spreading

these 'rumors' are people who don't even do ashtanga.

In fact, I have heard people make this claim who

spend much time destroying their bodies doing 'power

yoga' which often creates unbalance in the body because

they spend the first hour doing push-ups (note the

recent message by the power yoga student who is

frustrated because he feels he has 'not enough strength' in

his arms...???) - and such people are worried about

Guruji making an injury-inducing adjustment??? Another

woman who said Guruji adjusted her too hard and caused

an injury was taking a class at the Sivinanda center

in New York. She could barely lower herself into

chaturanga yet she told me she went to Mysore doing the

intermediate series and Guruji suggested that she only do

primary. Apparently this blow to her ego was too painful

and she now chooses to make up stories about him

instead. I also know two unqualified (and bitter)

so-called ashtanga teachers in London who make similar

claims for similar reasons.<br><br>At a formal dinner

recently, I was forced to sit across from a boorish

follower of some viniyoga teacher (Gary Kraftstow I

think???). This boor had just come from Kripalu where he did

a weekend workshop in viniyoga and apparently he

became an expert at ashtanga while he was there as well

(which he anounced to me when I told him that I did

ashtanga.) He then went on and on about how Pattabhi Jois is

a slave driver and how most people who do ashtanga

get chronic injuries from the yoga and the harsh

adjustments and how in his Rolfing clinic in Boston, he sees

many injured people who do Ashtanga and he begs them

to stop because they are hurting themselves so much.

I said maybe this is because there are no ashtanga

teachers in Boston and these people are trying to learn

from tapes or from bad teachers. Ignoring me, he then

went on to announce to the whole table that 'this

cretin Pattabhi Jois' is such a hard-ass that he forced

his children to do ashtanga every day starting at an

early age and actually drove one of his children to

take his own life.' <br><br>Anyone who has met Guruji

KNOWS how utterly preposterous these comments are.

Maybe it's good. It will keep all the idiots away from

Mysore.<br><br>FBL

[Guest guest]

FBL, I hope you made some sharp comments to that cretin.

[Guest guest]

FUNKY BAD LADY, I certainly did not mean to upset

you in any way. It sounds like you have taken my

comment about Guruji's tough adjustsment to the edge. As

a relative beginner of ashtanga and also not having

gone to Mysore (and probably never will), I take

interest in hearing the opinions of people who have had

more and different experiences with yoga (isn't that

why we all access posts like this one and ezboard?),

and unfortunately hear things which may not be true

(according to you, at least re: Guruji's adjustments).

<br><br>Thank you for straightening out the misunderstanding

anyhow.

[Guest guest]

FBL: you say that folks who claim that Guruji

makes harsh adjustments say so because they are bitter,

or have some axe to grind.<br><br>Perhaps they are

bitter because they actually have been injured by harsh

adjustments.<br><br>Those of us who know serious Ashtanga practitioners of

high character -- persons whose veracity is beyond

doubt -- who have experienced injury during adjustments

in Mysore, will have trouble dismissing

categorically all of the rumors they hear. What tends to stick

in the craw is that injuries thus produced are not

acknowledged, but are euphemized as "openings."<br><br>I myself

have never been hurt by someone else's adjustment.

(I've also never been to Mysore.) What I'm sure of,

though, is that too many of the more devoted Ashtangi are

in denial about how dangerous the practice is, with

or without adjustments. Sure, you won't get hurt if

you practice correctly and with detachment, but for

crying out loud: you can snowboard off a cliff and not

get hurt if you do it "just right." That doesn't mean

snowboarding off cliffs is safe.<br><br>Peace and

Good,<br>Homer

[Guest guest]

FBL -- i have spoken with many many folks who

have been to mysore and have left with injuries, i

practice at a studio owned by a certified teacher who is

very reverant about guruji. some of the teachers at

the studio who have been to mysore have been injured

there. so this does happen and it is not just

badmouthing. These teachers are very reverant of sri jois but

some of them will not go to Mysore again and won't

even go to a class where he adjusts.<br><br>i really

wanted to know if any beginner or relatively stiff

person had been adjusted by guruji and if so what the

result was.

[Guest guest]

>> you can snowboard off a cliff and not

get hurt if you do it "just right." That doesn't mean

snowboarding off cliffs is safe.<br><br>You're an idiot if you

snowboard off cliffs without (1) learning to snowboard

without going of cliffs and (2) gradually gaining

experience snowboarding off little tiny cliffs. Is it not

equally idiotic for people to try to "get" advanced

asanas before they are ready for them?

[Guest guest]

"Is it not equally idiotic for people to try to "get" advanced asanas before

they are ready for them? "<br><br>Absolutely true. Anyone who does this is

working from the EGO EGO EGO.

[Guest guest]

so if it is idiotic to get people to into asanas before they are ready

,<br><br>does guruji do this? or do you feel that he knows when people are

ready?

[Guest guest]

We do know one of Guruji's sons committed

suicide. As far as I know, it hasn't been established why

he chose to take his own life.<br><br>I'm not sure

how meeting Guruji now, or in the last 20 years, can

tells us anything about how he raised his kids 40 or

more years ago. Guruji may have been very severe with

his kids, or not. We just don't know either way, as

far as I know. That being so it's very likely the

person you met was BSing at Guruji's expense.

[Guest guest]

Great post Homer, I agree with all the points you make.

[Guest guest]

I don't know about Guruji, but I've been yanked

on and tugged on by a Certified Teacher to progress

and progress in a certain asana...and then when

something severly popped, he immediately blamed me for

"trashing my knee."<br><br>Huh? <br><br>You learn the hard

way about Authority in this practice. That is, if you

get hurt, it will be *your* fault, and certainly your

injury to deal with.<br><br>We are supposed to put a

certain stock in Grace in this practice, and that's all

well and good. <br><br>But there are limits here, and

a big one is this:<br><br>NO ONE, NOT EVEN GURUJI

OR SHARAT, HAS A PERFECT UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR

PHYSICAL LIMITS.<br><br>They do have an advanced

understanding, but not a perfect one.<br><br>By the same token:

<br><br>MORE IS NOT NECESSARILY BETTER.<br><br>Enthusiasm, the

desire to please the teacher, ambition to go where

you've never been before -- that is, EGO -- can impel us

to cast our innate bodily common sense aside and

injure ourselves.<br><br>Those on the tour will get a

lot out of watching how the advanced students

practice. Notice the balanced effort, ambition, energy.

[Guest guest]

Homer/Media, would you mind telling more about

the injuries your friends received in Mysore? Like

what part of the body was injured, what pose was the

culprit and if they had any previous problems going in

which made them more suseptible to injury? I wonder if

there are patterns in the injuries these folks

received. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Good points Screwgee, thanks. <br><br>Would you

be willing to identify the certified teacher who

popped your knee? I don't blame you if you'd rather not

but it would be nice to know who to approach with

caution. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

No, because this teacher is a good teacher, and I

don't want to drag him into any controversy. <br><br>I

wasn't trying to imply that my injury was his fault. But

by the same token, I felt it was a bit unfair of him

to tell me my injury was all my fault. Perhaps I

came across a bit too emphatic in my comments about

authority. Anyway, when the teacher Injury speaks to you

about what you're doing, he definitely makes an

impression.<br><br>I think it's human nature that, those things we can

do easily, we have a hard time understanding those

who have difficulty doing those same things.<br>I see

this in myself in certain aspects of the practice --

some things I'm fairly strong at, and I catch myself

mentally criticizing others who, for example, spend years

at the wall trying to learn handstands. And so those

with very flexible knees and hips may be perplexed why

some students aren't getting into Lotus all that

quickly.

[Guest guest]

<<NO ONE, NOT EVEN GURUJI OR SHARAT, HAS A

PERFECT UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR PHYSICAL

LIMITS.>><br><br>That is so true and they realize it too. They will

stop or drop the adjustment if you just dare to say

"no". If your insecurity or ego stops you from stopping

them, well, who's to blame really?<br><br>My left knee

is quite a wreck. In fact, to such a degree that I

have been forced to wear a support with metal hinges

on the sides to prevent lateral movement. Today

Guruji was giving me adjustment in Tiriang Mukhaekapada

Pachimottanasana first on the right side which was ok, since that

knee is faring well. <br><br>Then after the vinyasa to

the left, I decided not to do it on that side, since

just on last weeks Monday I managed to dislocate my

knee in the said asana. So, as I was just sitting down

hugging my left knee to my chest, Guruji walked over and

tapped my shoulder and uttered "Mmmh?" in a manner that

meant "why are you not doing the pose, want some

help?". I just pointed at my knee and the support and

said: "No, my knee is hurt". Guruji just smiled gently,

shrugged and walked away. <br><br>So, the point is: Know

your limits, know your body, AND have the courage to

act according to that knowledge. <br><br>Not Guruji

nor any other teacher will hurt you deliberately.

Vice versa, they love their students and want the best

for them. Also, I cannot believe that anyone who has

met The Man whould ever dare to bash him or question

his motives as some (expletive deleted) have done on

this board.<br><br><a href=http://pub42.ezboard.com/byoga84291

target=new>http://pub42.ezboard.com/byoga84291</a>

[Guest guest]

She forgot for a moment that she's vegetarian and

she devoured him alive...<br><br>Seriously, my

impression is that several instructors who teach other

styles of yoga are nowadays somewhat nervous, and

probably outright green with envy, of the current success

of Astanga Yoga. That might be the reason why some

of them feel obliged to come up with stories about

all those injuries astanga practitioner may or may

not have suffered; or even with telling that Guruji

drove his own son to commit suicide - a truly VICIOUS

allegation indeed, and further proof of the hysterical mood

among those who say such things.<br><br>Fact is that

injuries do happen, and not just in Astanga Yoga. I

remember reading some time ago an article about B.K.S.

Iyengar, who told in an interview that he himself suffered

injuries on several occasions through his own practice, to

the point that he had to seek medical advice and

couldn't practise for weeks and even months. The ratio of

injury is probably highest in Astanga because it's so

vigorous. But the vigour of the practice is also what makes

Astanga popular, and the risk of harm may even add to the

thrill, just like in other of the more demanding physical

activities. Certainly it's pointless to ask whose fault it

was when you suffer an injury - it just happens.

<br><br>Fact is also that MOST certified Astanga teachers

(CERTIFIED BY GURUJI himself that is, not through one of

those "teacher training workshops" that, for some

obscure reason, are all the vogue in America) do keep

going to Mysore EVERY YEAR, and without reporting any

injuries at all.<br><br>To Mediaglyphic, who is asking all

those question regarding the injuries, I would like to

say this: if it is your heeded opinion that Astanga

Yoga is in fact a harmful practice, and if you are, as

it seems to me, outright scared of being adjusted

personally by Guruji - could you then please explain why you

still care to do any Astanga Yoga at all??