Astanga certification

[Guest guest]

"Certification is completely

meaningless."<br><br>Really?<br><br>If I look at the "Ashtanga Yoga

Classification of

Teaching" put out on John Scott's website,

<a href=http://www.ashtanga.co.uk/main.htm

target=new>http://www.ashtanga.co.uk/main.htm</a> (in the "articles" section),

it seems to me that

only certified teachers are allowed to teach astanga

yoga beyond the intermediate series. <br><br>In fact,

I know of no other hatha-yoga system which outlines

such strict requirements for becoming a teacher as

astanga yoga does. Not even iyengar yoga, which certainly

is one of the most rigorous yoga systems you can

find, is not so strict.

[Guest guest]

Certification to teach ashtanga?<br> May be, this is a demand and motive of

ashtanga mafia

[Guest guest]

"ashtanga mafia"??<br><br>But isn't it Sri K Pattabhi Jois himself who demands

those certification requirements?

[Guest guest]

LEADER OF MAFIA?

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr Viswanath <br><br>No, I have no idea what

they're going on about sometimes either but then again

I'm not totally sure if i understand some of my own

postings. Let us have our madness, everything is coming,

it's just it sure takes some struggling

hereabouts<br><br>Yours sincerely<br><br>Ted

[Guest guest]

No no no, Jois is certainly not a mafia leader. I am just wondering what you

mean whith "ashtanga mafia"...

[Guest guest]

Anyone can teach astanga yoga who chooses to

teach astanga yoga. No one owns the term "astanga

yoga," no one owns the practice.<br><br>Curiously, the

requirements for teaching, according to John Scott's website,

have something to do with attending classes at one

certain yoga shala in Mysore India. Tuition is $400 or so

a month.

[Guest guest]

you gotta get this straight in yer head- the

elaborate certification requirements you now see on betty

and john's sites were for all intents and purposes

conceived not so much by guruji or sharath but by certain

western students who have agendas of their own.

previously, guruji simply stated that you had to finish 3rd

series but even if you were physically capable,

ultimately he would decide on whether the student was worthy

to be certified.can you honestly imagine guruji

dictating all those conditions? it isn't his style to put

everything down like that. there are people who have cajoled

him and put those words in his mouth.

[Guest guest]

Anyone can teach astanga yoga who chooses to

teach astanga yoga. No one owns the term "astanga

yoga," no one owns the practice.<br><br>Yes indeed, and

therefore I asked in one of my last messagges why it is not

possible fot those who love a certification (in Europe

everybody loves a certification...) to get it from a good

teacher here in Europe? There are good teacher here (Lino

Miele, John Scott with little mistakes in his book but

surely excellent in his teaching I suppose). If in the

whole world there is one man who holds the line what

about the millions of handys, will say - and take a

look to the boxing matches (even if yoga has only a

little to do with boxing...), now there exists various

federations. May be one day if there will be no liberation on

this subject of teaching there could be various

federations in teaching Ashtanga-Yoga too. Why not make it

now voluntary like in Iyengar-System? Lu

[Guest guest]

Lu,<br><br>I think it's all about keeping

teaching standards high & preserving the alleged purity of

"the system" - although, I myself don't see much

"purity" in astanga yoga, as it seems to me that every

astanga book will teach you a different version of how to

do the series.<br><br>On those "little mistakes" in

John Scott's "Ashtanga Yoga" book, I will e-mail Scott

personally today, and then post his reply on this board. I

like the vinyasa count, because it helps put a

structure into the sequences of the astanga series. I think

to have read somewhere that Lino Miele too is

fascinated by the vinyasa counting, whereby every breath

syncronized with movement has its own number.

[Guest guest]

Concerning the teaching of Guruji I have to rely

on second hand information. Anyway I think, that the

teaching "standard" especially the hand on adjustments of

many western teachers like David Swenson, Richard

Freeman, etc. is much better than the "Mysore"

standard.<br>As stated in one of the recent posts, a certificate

is no guarantee that a person is a qualified Yoga

teacher, and that is true for every kind of Yoga practise.

>From my experience it completely depends on the

teacher himself, his experience, his way to pass the

yoga.<br>Any kind of "Ashtanga Education System" wouldn't make

any teacher a better one as one sees perhaps in

Iyengar Yoga.<br>There will always be the problem to find

a teacher from whom you can (or you think you can)

learn something "the right way".<br><br>Yours in

Yoga<br>Dirk

[Guest guest]

Yes, the teaching should be kept on a high

standard. But, somebody wrote here, that there must be the

possibility to make a teacher-training with the followed

permission to teach also in our good old Europe. Otherwise

there will be always such "charlatans" like senor

unknown who don't want to go to Mysore and teach it by

the way in a bad way.<br>If there would be standards

in teaching (like the training in Iyengar-yoga),

this could help to uphold a good teaching. Then we can

also preserve the purity of the system because then

there are standards for all who wants to

teach.<br>Pattabhi would be a great man if he would do this step

forward to the future und would gain such a reputation

like B.K.S. Iyengar for making ready the world for

Ashtanga-Yoga.<br>There is also no need to be afraid of losing students,

everybody who wants to work with the big-big man would

always going to Mysore, even then. Lu<br>(only for us

Germans: Our Mosi (Mooshammer) sang: Let's go and

share!)(0 points, but he was not only missing his little

dog, he does not come from Island too!)

[Guest guest]

Those who have faith in the teacher and the

teachings need no paper certification. if you're looking

for formal, universal standards, you're probably just

another flighty practitioner looking for the next

experience from another teacher - yet another angle of the

yoga tourist- no focus, no understanding, no practice.

if i were you, i'd just be concerned about getting

on my mat everyday. <br><br>the Iyengar method is

wonderful for those who enjoy being intellectually

entertained, but lousy for yoga. the very nature of Iyengar's

creative genius defies transmission, hence most of what

passes for Iyengar's teaching, especially for those

certified, is little more than a poor fascimile with little

substance or background. are these the kind of standards

you seek?

[Guest guest]

to what end i wonder. yoga practice can be

rigorous, and i know i have used that word to describe my

training, but looking at the phrase "rigorous yoga system"

today it seems oxymoronic -- especially when

considering that the yoga sutras tell us unequivocally to

release all effort while holding an asana. sri p. jois

tells us the yoga sutras are his only source for

ashtanga yoga, so this is a salient point. effort starts

with a vrtti, a thought fluctuation. if we still the

mind in meditation vrttis cease. in this way we

realize our true nature, pure consciousness. a practice

not teaching us to give up all effort may be based in

yoga, but is missing the essential nature of yoga.

[Guest guest]

LOL. certification is a good thing to my mind.

the fault lies with those who accept the

certification, like any credential, as something other than what

it is. in the corporate age people abdicate their

judgment to seals of approval stamped by others. employees

are hired according to benchmarks which may have

nothing to do with true ability. yoga practice can go a

long way to fending off that system, which leads to

schizophrenia, or vikalpa and viparyaya.

[Guest guest]

While I agree with you that the context of

"rigorous" (connoting shades of bootcamp and teeth-gnashing

ardor) may not quite fit with what we consider to be

yogic, still,<br><br>"Abhyasa" (long, sustained, intense

practice) is a fundamental key to yoga practice. So says

Patanjali.

[Guest guest]

namaste'.<br><br>point well taken. without

abhyasa there is no yoga. i have learned that the effort

in question, however, is in giving up all effort

(should i send that to hallmark cards?).<br><br>yoga

sutra 1.12:<br>abhyasa-vairagyabhyam

tan-nirodhah<br><br>their (vrttis, mind fluctuations) control is brought

about by practice (abhyasa) and nonattachment.

(vishnu-devananda)<br><br>their (vrttis) control is by practice and

nonattachment. (vivekananda)<br><br>yoga sutra 1.13:<br>tatra

sthitau yatno 'bhyasah |<br><br>abhyasa is the continuous

effort toward firmly establishing the restraint of

thought waves. (vishnu-devananda)<br><br>continuous

struggle to keep them (vrttis) perfectly restrained is

practice. (vivekananda)<br><br>but taken as a whole, the

ashtanga (8 limbs) of raja yoga include pratyahara,

withdrawal of the senses, abstraction of sensations into

pure thought, so they may be controlled in the mind

with all other thoughts.<br><br>pratyahara allows us

to transcend self-identification with the physical

body, with the senses. we can then exert what might

otherwise seem to be great effort effortlessly, as it

were.<br><br>i practice patanjali's teaching that a yoga posture

is stable and comfortable, that we release all

effort in the posture and focus the mind in meditation.

pratyahara allows the physical body's intuitive wisdom to

emerge, without the will powered by vrttis, i.e., no

forcing or straining. <br><br>this also allows us to

honor ahimsa, doing no harm, and tapas, austerity,

doing only what is required, and ishwara pranidhana,

surrender to the infinite. anything that disturbs

stability, comfort, effortlessness and meditation is an

obstacle to yoga. through practice, long and sustained and

rigorous -- but in its subtle, correct way -- we learn to

let the mind still and the body relax, allowing yoga

(union of the illusory individual with the real

universal Self) to transpire.<br><br>my interpretations

come through study, practice, and observation, and are

certainly subject to constant evolution. i appreciate the

invaluable opportunity to discuss with colleagues.<br><br>om

shantih,<br>jai

[Guest guest]

Yes, hopefully there will be more discussion of

the sutras here.<br><br>I've just begun reading

Iyengar's work on the sutras. I think the introduction

itself is worth the price of the book. I also have a

nice, very to the point, but much shorter treatment of

this subject in Desikachar's PATANJALI'S YOGASUTRAS,

which may be out of print. Perhaps D has written other

books on the Sutras which are still

available.<br><br>Also on my shelf is Satchidananda's book on Patajali,

which is rather folksy.

[Guest guest]

cool -- our karma allows us access to limitless sources of information, for

which i am grateful every day.