Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 I am sitting here in Noo Yawk, wondering when I will be able to buy a new pair of pants for the upcoming summer weather, and hoping that my Food Stamps get deposited so I can go shopping before my kitchen is completely empty. We do not have socialized medicine, so as a handicapped person, I am in perpetual debt to my hospital's medical clinics. You have an unrealistic perception of the American economy. There are MANY poor people in the USA. I'm one. We are not all Texas oil millionaires. -- Len/ Kalipadma --- Lars Hedström <lars wrote: > > > Why is there so many poor people in India but not in > Europe or USA? > > Perhaps a yogi also could be cultural conditioned? > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 But US of A is very good in hiding her poor *smile* Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108 wrote: I am sitting here in Noo Yawk, wondering when I will be able to buy a new pair of pants for the upcoming summer weather, and hoping that my Food Stamps get deposited so I can go shopping before my kitchen is completely empty. We do not have socialized medicine, so as a handicapped person, I am in perpetual debt to my hospital's medical clinics. You have an unrealistic perception of the American economy. There are MANY poor people in the USA. I'm one. We are not all Texas oil millionaires. -- Len/ Kalipadma --- Lars Hedström wrote: > > > Why is there so many poor people in India but not in > Europe or USA? > > Perhaps a yogi also could be cultural conditioned? > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 "Len Rosenberg" wrote: > We do not have socialized medicine, > so as a handicapped person, I am in perpetual debt to > my hospital's medical clinics. The people in USA are apparently the most helath-crippled in the world due to wrong lifestyle and food. > > You have an unrealistic perception of the American > economy. There are MANY poor people in the USA. I'm > one. OK, but I think you have a computer, a car, a TV, a telephone and a refrigerator. How many have that in india? Besides, I haven't heard of any wandering skeletons in the street in US - on the contrary people are so fat that they are rolling... Regards Lars We are not all Texas oil millionaires. > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > --- Lars Hedström <lars wrote: > > > > > > Why is there so many poor people in India but not in > > Europe or USA? > > > > Perhaps a yogi also could be cultural conditioned? > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 --- Lars Hedström <lars wrote: > > > OK, but I think you have a computer, a car, a TV, a > telephone and a refrigerator. My computer and phone were gifts given to me by friends. No car, no TV. The fridge is rented, along with the apartment. > How many have that in > india? > > Besides, I haven't heard of any wandering skeletons > in the street in US - on the contrary people are so > fat that they are rolling... The homeless people who root through the trash in Noo Yawk are pretty thin. And many poor fat people have filled up on empty calories. -- Len/ Kalipadma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:52:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lars writes: Besides, I haven't heard of any wandering skeletons in the street in US - on the contrary people are so fat that they are rolling... it's sad but true, more than 20% of americans are considered obese. It's an epidemic here and has a lot to do with the fast food industry. In a roundabout way this ties into problems of materialism, lack of restraint and also lack of any ideal spiritual or otherwise. When people aren't healthy how can they live decent lives? Also the fast food industry is responsible for a lot of torture and suffering of animals as well as environmental destruction. It's very bad Karma for everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 Lots of homeless in Santa Monica, too. Amma's kitchen actually feeds folks here (or did before local ordinances got in the way) and throughout LA county.... , Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108> wrote: > > > --- Lars Hedström <lars@2...> wrote: > > > > > > > OK, but I think you have a computer, a car, a TV, a > > telephone and a refrigerator. > > My computer and phone were gifts given to me by > friends. No car, no TV. The fridge is rented, along > with the apartment. > > > > How many have that in > > india? > > > > Besides, I haven't heard of any wandering skeletons > > in the street in US - on the contrary people are so > > fat that they are rolling... > > The homeless people who root through the trash in Noo > Yawk are pretty thin. And many poor fat people have > filled up on empty calories. > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 I wanted to mention this when we were on the Santeria topic and animal slaughter. There is a woman who is autistic named Temple Grandin who claims that she has an understanding of animals because her mind works as theirs do. She has written a couple of books, and she has designed humane slaughterhouses and methods of transport based on her special awareness of and affinity with animals. Here's her website for anyone who is interested: http://www.grandin.com/ , swastik108@a... wrote: > In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:52:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > lars@2... writes: > Besides, I haven't heard of any wandering skeletons in the street in US - on > the contrary people are so fat that they are rolling... > > > > it's sad but true, more than 20% of americans are considered obese. It's an > epidemic here and has a lot to do with the fast food industry. In a roundabout > way this ties into problems of materialism, lack of restraint and also lack of > any ideal spiritual or otherwise. > > When people aren't healthy how can they live decent lives? Also the fast food > industry is responsible for a lot of torture and suffering of animals as well > as environmental destruction. It's very bad Karma for everyone. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 28, 2005 swastik wrote: "it's sad but true, more than 20% of americans are considered obese. It's an epidemic here and has a lot to do with the fast food industry. In a roundabout way this ties into problems of materialism, lack of restraint and also lack of any ideal spiritual or otherwise." Yeah, you are right. What is the goal of humanity and the human culture or peoples lifes? People do not know, they are lost. The backside of materialism. "When people aren't healthy how can they live decent lives?" To the pharmacyindustry people's bad health is a goldmine. This industry do not want to cure people cause this would mean less profit. The pharmacy industry defines to a very high degree the medical science of how diseases are to be treated. Most physician are obedient (=higher salary) and deliver only symtomatic pills - they are the real whores. Regards Lars Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 28, 2005 Mary Ann: "Lots of homeless in Santa Monica, too. Amma's kitchen actually feeds folks here (or did before local ordinances got in the way) and throughout LA county...." It's a scandal that the richest country in the world cannot deliver an acceptable standard for all its citizens. Your beloved democracy I also question, atleast 60% of the people must vote in a society to be qualified to be called a democracy. You don't think it has something to do with a lot of immigrants? Regards Lars Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 28, 2005 Len Rosenberg: "The homeless people who root through the trash in Noo Yawk are pretty thin." Aren't there any jobs for them? Regards Lars Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 28, 2005 [sound of Len laughing hysterically as he shakes his head ruefully.] --- Lars Hedström <lars wrote: > Len Rosenberg: > > "The homeless people who root through the trash in > Noo > Yawk are pretty thin." > > Aren't there any jobs for them? > > Regards > > Lars > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 28, 2005 what is the percentage of non-immigrants in US Society? 10%?? Lars Hedström <lars wrote:Mary Ann: "Lots of homeless in Santa Monica, too. Amma's kitchen actually feeds folks here (or did before local ordinances got in the way) and throughout LA county...." It's a scandal that the richest country in the world cannot deliver an acceptable standard for all its citizens. Your beloved democracy I also question, atleast 60% of the people must vote in a society to be qualified to be called a democracy. You don't think it has something to do with a lot of immigrants? Regards Lars / Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 28, 2005 I think it has something to do with lack of education, lack of good nutrition (prevalence of fast food, hormones in meat and in milk and cheese, no nutrients in white flour, white sugar, etc. so that the affordable food makes us fat as well as malnourished and ailing), and then because we're "the richest nation in the world" we go around bullying people, bolstering ourselves via the Christian church, demanding that others should be more like us. , Lars Hedström <lars@2...> wrote: > Mary Ann: > > "Lots of homeless in Santa Monica, too. Amma's kitchen actually feeds > folks here (or did before local ordinances got in the way) and > throughout LA county...." > > It's a scandal that the richest country in the world cannot deliver an acceptable standard for all its citizens. > > Your beloved democracy I also question, atleast 60% of the people must vote in a society to be qualified to be called a democracy. > > You don't think it has something to do with a lot of immigrants? > > > Regards > > Lars > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 28, 2005 "sankara menon" wrote: >what is the percentage of non-immigrants in >US Society? 10%?? I ofcourse meant new immigrants who haven't yet established in the society. A society with a high immigration has bigger problems to guarantee social security for all ofcourse. Lars Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 28, 2005 We are a nation of immigrants. Who are the non-immigrants in US society? Native Americans? They make considerably less than ten percent. (And many Native Americans are crushingly poor.) -- Len/ Kalipadma --- sankara menon <kochu1tz wrote: > > what is the percentage of non-immigrants in US > Society? 10%?? > Lars Hedström <lars > wrote:Mary Ann: > > "Lots of homeless in Santa Monica, too. Amma's > kitchen actually feeds > folks here (or did before local ordinances got in > the way) and > throughout LA county...." > > It's a scandal that the richest country in the world > cannot deliver an acceptable standard for all its > citizens. > > Your beloved democracy I also question, atleast 60% > of the people must vote in a society to be qualified > to be called a democracy. > > You don't think it has something to do with a lot of > immigrants? > > > Regards > > Lars > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection around > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Would you Help a Child in need? > It is easier than you think. > Click Here to meet a Child you can help. > http://us.click./sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 New immigrants to the USA are frequently hired for dirty, low-paying jobs that force them to live several families in a small apartment. I have quite a few college-educated friends, born and raised in the US, who cannot find work at all. Good paying jobs are at a premium, companies are "downsizing," many positions are being "outsourced" to countries like Mexico and India. These friends are working two or three part-time jobs (when they can find them), with no medical coverage, insurance, or benefits. Many are turned down for honest, "manual labor" jobs, they are told -- "You're educated, so you won't stay in a low-paying job like this." My 85-year old father says the economy has not been this bad since the Great Depression of 1939. Mr. Bush and his political cohorts are slashing government funded aid programs for the poor, and talking about how social security is going down the tubes. He pushes for "faith-based" financial assistance -- and I am not affiliated with any church Mr. Bush would accept. Is there a Tantric Shakta Charities of New York? Witches' Unemployment Fund? Buddhist Savings and Loans? No, no, and no. I am "lucky" that my left hip deteriorated with arthritis, and I receive Social Security Disability benefits based on my 18 years working as a New York City Civil Servant. It's not quite enough to pay the rent and utilities, medical costs (no socialized medicine here), and food (thank Goddess for Food Stamps), and there is no money left over for new clothes, or books. But at least I can sit at home and yatter on my computer (a gift from several friends), while my "able-bodied" unemployed friends have to rush about submitting resumes and going on job interviews, to no avail in most cases. Yes, I am bitter about the US economy. -- Len/ Kalipadma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 Then I say, get your act together and take it out on the road! You are funny, and you could communicate this stuff on tour like I mentioned! It's not like it'll interfere with your disability benefits, and probably, folks will feed you wherever you go. Then it won't only be yattering online, but you can yatter in person and participate in generating some affluent abundance of spirit. And every spiritual guru may provide an opportunity for you. For example, maybe your friend's guru's tour. You can put together a short routine of jokes with economic info interspersed and try it out on your friend, the rich one with the attitude, because it's her and others like her who need you most , Len Rosenberg <kalipadma108> wrote: > > New immigrants to the USA are frequently hired for > dirty, low-paying jobs that force them to live several > families in a small apartment. I have quite a few > college-educated friends, born and raised in the US, > who cannot find work at all. Good paying jobs are at a > premium, companies are "downsizing," many positions > are being "outsourced" to countries like Mexico and > India. > > These friends are working two or three part-time jobs > (when they can find them), with no medical coverage, > insurance, or benefits. Many are turned down for > honest, "manual labor" jobs, they are told -- "You're > educated, so you won't stay in a low-paying job like > this." > > My 85-year old father says the economy has not been > this bad since the Great Depression of 1939. Mr. Bush > and his political cohorts are slashing government > funded aid programs for the poor, and talking about > how social security is going down the tubes. He > pushes for "faith-based" financial assistance -- and I > am not affiliated with any church Mr. Bush would > accept. Is there a Tantric Shakta Charities of New > York? Witches' Unemployment Fund? Buddhist Savings > and Loans? No, no, and no. > > I am "lucky" that my left hip deteriorated with > arthritis, and I receive Social Security Disability > benefits based on my 18 years working as a New York > City Civil Servant. It's not quite enough to pay the > rent and utilities, medical costs (no socialized > medicine here), and food (thank Goddess for Food > Stamps), and there is no money left over for new > clothes, or books. But at least I can sit at home and > yatter on my computer (a gift from several friends), > while my "able-bodied" unemployed friends have to rush > about submitting resumes and going on job interviews, > to no avail in most cases. > > Yes, I am bitter about the US economy. > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 >Mr. Bush and his political cohorts are slashing government >funded aid programs for the poor, and talking about >how social security is going down the tubes. Yes: because they are pushing it! Len is right. The immigrants work harder than many, for less. If anything, they are holding things up. Food prices, among other things, would be much higher if not for their low-paid labor. Max -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives Global Women's History http://www.suppressedhistories.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 > > Len is right. The immigrants work harder than many, for less. If > anything, they are holding things up. Food prices, among other > things, would be much higher if not for their low-paid labor. In 1995, two major sweatshop exposes rocked the nation and put sweatshops back in the public eye. In the Los Angeles suburb of El Monte, labor officials discovered a slave-sweatshop where 80 Thai immigrants were forced to sew brand-name clothes in a compound behind razor wire and armed guards. Making clothing that was sold at major stores like Mervyn's and Montgomery Wards, the workers made less than $2 per hour. http://www.sweatshopwatch.org/index.php?s=67 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 Please allow me to voice my observations on this issue. I speak as an immigrant from India who has lived in the USA for almost 30 years. A large part of the problem is the American view of itself. The USA calls itself the "Land of Opportunity" in which a poor person can become wealthy. The people who are held up and idolized as heroes are people who did this. These can be immigrants or not. There are stories of people who came to the US from Europe in the 19th Century, with nothing but one bar of soap in their pockets, yet after years of hard work own large companies. The reality of course is not that extreme, but the general pattern is accurate. The majority of middle-class Americans are descended from immigrants who came here from Europe in the 19th and early 20th Centuries. They came here looking for better lives than they had in Europe, and for the most part they succeeded. These people today have much better lives than their immigrant grandparents. The unfortunate corollary to this is that if it is possible for a poor person to become wealthy, then it is logical to conclude that any person who is poor and who remains poor must be lazy or stupid. Thus the successful people have no sympathy for the poor and refuse to help them. This is of course a silly misunderstanding of the causes of poverty, but many Americans believe this. The poor are poor because they deserve to be poor The perception today is that most of the homeless people are drug users and/or mentally ill. It is true that many drug users and mentally ill people become homeless because there are inadequate provisions to help them, but there are other homeless people who do not fit this description. There are many small industrial towns in the United States in which there is one and only one factory, often one built in the 1890s. In the past, everyone in the town worked at this one factory. But if the factory closes, what are the people to do? They are forced to move to other cities looking for work, having no income while they look for new jobs. Thus they become homeless. But after they become homeless, the mere fact of being homeless prevents them from getting jobs. This is because of the perception that all homeless are insane or drug users. Once they are homeless, it is extremely difficult to remove oneself from that condition. Sister Usha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 Sister Usha Devi wrote: I speak as an immigrant from India who has lived in the USA for almost 30 years. Are you? I have often wondered ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 "Pity would be no more, If we did not make somebody Poor; And Mercy no more could be, If all were as happy as we; " - William Blake Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 Len Rosenberg: "New immigrants to the USA are frequently hired for dirty, low-paying jobs that force them to live several families in a small apartment." I have read Eric Schlosser's book Fast Food Nation - a horrible book from a human perspective - which also includes concern about animals. "My 85-year old father says the economy has not been this bad since the Great Depression of 1939. Mr. Bush and his political cohorts are slashing government funded aid programs for the poor, and talking about how social security is going down the tubes. He pushes for "faith-based" financial assistance -- and I am not affiliated with any church Mr. Bush would accept." But still quite many people vote for him. "Is there a Tantric Shakta Charities of New York? Witches' Unemployment Fund? Buddhist Savings and Loans? No, no, and no." Here we have a big task. The last religion hasn't seen daylight yet. I do not understand why social work aren't more widespread among yoga-practitioners. As I see it one effect of yoga is making the problems of your fellow beings and fellow-animals yours! Suddenly you are not an isolated egoist anylonger - other human's and animal's sufferings carve in your soul! "It's not quite enough to pay the rent and utilities, medical costs (no socialized medicine here), and food (thank Goddess for Food Stamps), and there is no money left over for new clothes, or books." I salute you for your honesty. I think most poor people would be ashamed and not tell the truth. Regards Lars Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 > "Is there a Tantric Shakta Charities of New > York? Witches' Unemployment Fund? Buddhist Savings > and Loans? No, no, and no." > > Here we have a big task. The last religion hasn't seen daylight yet. I do not understand why social work aren't more widespread among yoga-practitioners. As I see it one effect of yoga is making the problems of your fellow beings and fellow-animals yours! Charity for the poor is an integral part of Christianity as it was originally taught by Jesus. He was a very poor, homeless drifter himself, associating with lepers, prostitutes, tax collectors, and other outcastes from society. He encouraged everyone else to care for such people. He even said that rich people are by nature doomed to hell. Some present-day Christians practice this charity while others ignore it, but thost that do collect many millions from rich Christians to feed and shelter poor Christians. They consider this an essential part of their faith. Does Hinduism have such strong arguments in favor of charity in its basic tenets? I am not criticising and certainly not saying that Christianity is preferable. Certanly not. I am simply asking the question inviting people on this list to compare the two. Sister Usha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 Dear Friends, If I may say something to contribute to the discussion that anybody will care about, the “wealthy nations” have become wealthy by exploiting the colonies. The “old immigrants” of USA quickly took over the Native Americans and reduced them to a very marginal position. Ruthless and aggressive, the white (Caucasian) anglo-saxon protestant (WASP) very first immigrants fiercely fought to maintain their predominance and power (see “Bands of New York”) against all other ethnic or religious groups. Even in the very first days heavy and cruel discriminations were made against other immigrants: Chinese, Irish (i.e. Catholic), Italian, Jews etc. What to speak of the treatment of Africans. The treatment of the “newest immigrants” like Indians (from India), Indonesians, middle eastern ethnic groups, Mexicans and other south Americans, has always been appalling. However, slowly Italians (through mafia) and Jews (through finance) have finally carved a place for themselves in US society. The acceptance of the Italian ethnic/religious minority as a part of US “original” culture has brought to expansion of “acceptable” people description to the Catholics. Similarly, black people have fought a place for themselves, and they are starting to get it. Native Americans, treated like “ethnic minority”, are also starting to fight to get a place in their own country. Indian immigrants still largely keep to themselves. Racist Americans who mistreat “outsiders” i.e. persons not belonging to the “accepted” groups, do not have a mentality that can be described, “we are all immigrants”. Of if they say so, they still think, “all people are equal, but some people are more equal than others”. PKD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
