Kundalini

[Guest guest]

I like to present to this group some thoughts about kundalini. These

should only give a general idea about kundalini because some things

are to difficult and esoteric to be represented completely in a

posting. I apologize for that. I also apologize for errors if they

crept without my knowledge.

 

This i hope will give those interested some insight in a lesser known

perspective, and show a broader meaning of the Kundalini experience

existing beyond the idea of a energy current only (like electricty)

which is well known to most but which is only one aspect of kundalini

(called more properly Pranashakti if understood as a body force)

 

The term kundalini awakening is misleading, it is often misunderstood

as if the sleeping kundalini is not active and has to be awakened to

be experienced at all.

 

This is not so: to the contrary all that we experience is caused by

Kundalini, in fact our world is created by Kundalini.

 

Kundalini is called sleeping only because this description is from a

higher more enlightened viewpoint. Our normal way of perception of

our life and the world around us and ourself appear as sleep and a

poisonend state to a enlightened Yogi.

Because the Kundalini has caused our "sleep" she is called sleeping.

 

The sleeping Kundalini is the creative Force of the Universe She is

causing our universe to appear by actively DELUDING our mind and

senses thereby creating our conception of reality and our universe.

 

Creation is always the Limitation of the Boundless. That is why she

is the limiting factor (Space Time Necessity etc)

 

(One form of Kundalini called Para Kundalini created our Universe

another form of her created the mind complex she is called Chit

Kundalini and another Form is found in our body called Prana

Kundalini. In the awakening process each of these must be considered

alone and together)

 

She is therefore also the cause of the unawakened unenlightened

(limited ) consciousness.(appearing as the World. She is therefore

Jagadamba)

 

There are countless other shaktis who delude (limit) our

consciousness which arose during the creation. (In Laya Yoga some are

represented in the Chakras in Sri Vidya some are represented in the

avaranas of the Yantra, which is a representeation of our body and

the growth of a child in the womb also) Kundalini is the embodiment

of all deluding powerful shaktis.

 

Raising the Kundalini means to become oneself awake and aware of the

process of the dissolving of her shaktis ie. The delusion she had

caused by spreading outward as the universe and a human being..

 

The normal activity of kundalini devi is the process of creation

(sristhi) she is causing the delusion of duality and the human

being under the influence of the devi in the crative process is

entangled in worldy affairs. A human being under the influence of

the sleeping kundalini follows the pravritti marga thenormal

outgoing current of life the senses are bound and deluded by the the

sense impressions and the mind is outwardly orientated. This

perfectly in Harmony with the cosmic and human order and exemplified

by the 32worldly gains a human being is allowed to achieve called

artha kama within the boundary of dharma. The awakeneing of kundalini

is concerned with the other current called Nivritti Marga the return

to the cosmic source represented by the fourth pillar Moksha=

Enlightment.

 

When in the consciousness of a human being the will is born to be

free from the worldy state and he notices his state of slavery and

bondage of the worldy enjoyments (artha and kama) and wants to escape

another current of energy is initiated thats why it is called the

backward current nivritti marga or urdhva marg. (sthithi= withdrawal)

(there are also 2 modes of Avarana worship in sri vidya one of

withdrawal and one of creation sthiti /sristhi. The one is for

worldly gains (mostly practised by samaya marga) the other for moksha.

 

This turning point and the inward turning is a very natural flow of

life like the in and outbreath, or the heartbeat. After outward

projection and sense entangelment follows the inward movement and

disentanglement and return to the source.

This is the only healthy approach.

 

Because of this awakening of the mind of the human being the sleeping

poisonend state of the outward turnend world creating kundalini

changes and she also begins to turn inward and she involutes that

means she is destroying the world of delusion

she once created.

 

In Laya Yoga this dissolution is achieved by a series of Meditations

on the Chakras.

In Srividya by a similar series of Meditation based on the Sri yantra.

 

Also the Bhutashuddhi practise found in many Traditions is a practice

concernend with the Laya of the Bhutas and Kundalini.

 

Similiarly the Bandhas and Kriyas of Ha tha Yoga dissolve the

created body shaktis and awaken Prana Kundalini. (or Pranashakti)

 

The Dhyana of Ishta Devata in the Chakras and Adharas is used as a

important Laya process and as a means of inward turning also.

 

All these methods interact and are valid means

 

The movement of the sleeping poisonend deluded kundalini outwards

toward worldly enjoyment and illusion is also called the dakshina

marga (the way of creating and maintaining worlds for enjoyment)

The way of the Kundalini which is turned inward towards realisation

of the self and awake awareness) which also means reversing the

energy (prana) of the sense organs) is called vama marga or left

turning process. The common interpretations of

vama marga and dakshina marga are not touched by this it is simply

another possible interpretation in the context of Kundalini Yoga.

 

The objective world around us our idea about it (the impression in

our mind and our mind itself gradually vanish and are dissolved.

 

Before a human being can follow this Path of Laya-Yoga which means

translated Yoga of dissolution some qualities have to be present in

his mind stream at the moment he enters the upward flowing current.

One main Quality is the disgust for Samsara the other is the wish or

will to be awake aware or achieve enlightment.

Disgust for samsara is an absolute necessary state of mind for the

kundalini process changing from sristhi to sththi, you must have

realised the transitory nature of the world of the sense impression

and the futility of attachments to worldly ideas and goods.

Because the creation and maintenance of the universe for enjoyment is

the realm of the sleeping kundalini you cannot be attached to it and

leave it for the upward journey at the same time.

After the rise and downward movement of Kundalini you may return to

sense enjoyment and even use it as a means and practice but on a

refined level, but you must disattach completly first. (Even from

your Attachment to your body for achievement of space travel –called

khechari mudra)

 

The sleeping Kundalini is thought to reside in the muladhara chakra

coiled 3 and a half times around a Linga

 

The first coil represents the knower in bondage (pashu): Yourself.

Kundalini is asleep because of the attachment to the idea of

yourself. This idea of yourself does most oft not coincide with what

others think of you- usually you feel that you are much better person

then the others or you feel inferior. Also most often it is

influenced by your worldly achievements by monetary or scholarly

achievements or it is influenced by outward appearance.

 

To awake kundalini you have to destroy the erroneus idea you have

of yourself completely. Only then the natural state of mind can shine

forth (called "sahaja" in Yoga)

 

The second coil or bondage is the point of contact between the self

and the outer world. The means of knowledge. This contact functions

through the activity of your sense organs. Here in the unenlightened

state the flow is outwards toward the enjoyment and attachment to the

sense impressions. This causes the second coil of the sleeping

kundalini.

 

Awakened Kundalini shines forth as a light (jyothir) in the sense

organs and the five pranas and can be awakened by turning mind and

sense impression inward.

 

The third coil is representing the outer world known to you by the

activity of the five sense organs. This is called the thing to be

known (Object of Knowledge) and your attachment to the pleasing sense

impressions and your repulsion for the unpleasing keeps kundalini

asleep here

Only with no attachment (love or desire) or repulsion (hate-

aggression) to any sense impression kundalini can awake..

These three functions are also be called "the Measurer" the measuring

stick" and the "Thing to be measured". (Also known and represented

as the three lights: Sun Moon and Fire these are most intimately

connected with some methods of Kundalini Meditations)

 

Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with Stick

but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few know how

to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your measuring

stick = your sense organs and impressions)

[Guest guest]

Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with Stick

but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few know how

to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your measuring

stick = your sense organs and impressions)

 

----Not being an expert in yoga, all I can offer is the experience of someone I

know, and that is this. Kundalini means "lock of hair," not snake. This is

because kundalini is smoother and thinner than the finest hair. Subatomic.

Also, it is awakened by a force softer than the brushing of hair against one in

a breeze. The flow of kundalini is like hair under water. Kundalini is awakened

most often through direct contact with someone else who is awakened. And this

can happen anywhere as those with awakened kundalini cannot but know of it, and

cannot but also suffuse all those with whom they interact with that Sakti.

people with activated Sakti can tell what other people are close to awakening by

the light in that person's eyes.

 

Though kundalini does not mean snake, nonetheless she is a snake which can be

claravoyantly ascertained. She lies at the root chakra and She is the Trisakti.

She lies coiled and always remains coiled. Only her head raises up and hisses,

or it remains down and one has no higher experience. Next to her is the linga.

She is only coiled around the linga before she raises her head, then she removes

off to a short distance and hisses forevermore, the more so when the linga is

watered with attention. One would not nor could not hit kundalini with a stick

as there's no form to hit. Of course this was an analogy and the stick was

supposed to really mean the mind. My friend says that the mind raises kundalini

better when it acts like a goad pulling the kundalini, not like beating a stick.

Even a mantra acts more like a suture which with kundalini stiches up the loose

ends of the mind into silence. The mind before kundalini used to be like a

filthy and useless sack which could hold nothing, but over time kundalini

repairs and cleans the sack and fills the sack with bliss until it is full.

 

Kundalini hisses like a pressure seal when the mind engages in its

contemplation, and one clears into their primordial nature of the empty

awareness as spontaneous pratayahara commences. Kundalini comes into play when

the senses become removed from their objects because at that point one loses

body identification and something must rise up to fill the gap of incredulity

created. For this reason many people with awakened kundalini who have

spontaneously stopped identifying with the body but who have not had the

requisite mental training just go completely bonkers. Some see the lights of the

celestial palaces without any knowledge and either grow great egos, or they

think that they have found the "only true path." With proper help and guidance

kundalini is as soft as hair, and she is ones finest support for practice, in

fact, she becomes ones best friend. With no guidance she resembles the whole

host of demons ripping one to shreds as the ego loses its hold but with no

wisdom finds no refuge anywhere. So get it from your guru unless you're

especially strong mentally. Many drug addicts have awakened kundalini but cannot

stand the added mental functioning and so try to tamp it down with artificial

means. Additionally many insane people are kundalini-positive, but they were not

knowers of reality as the Absolute, or they had no Ishta, and so no prop for

their mind. For those with proper knowledge kundalini is the great mind

protector because her bliss helps one to cross this ocean of sorrows called

samsara.

 

For those truely desirous a mere few moments imagining Mahakali and using her

mantra can awaken kundalini if one has nothing to lose. My friend says she hopes

someone can utilize her insights. Jai Ma. Any merit from this writing is

dedicated to all those suffering. May they be free of pain and enjoy equanimity.

 

 

[Guest guest]

The picture of the snake is not important, this energy is pictured in

many ways, the snake is a fairly "new" symbol. The Devi residing in

the Chakras has also been symbolised by a goddess in human form, a

fire ,a small red point, a red line etc.

The Stick i am talking about is the point of contact between the

world and yourself. That is where you can meet kundalini. (This is

called: Kama Kala paaramarsaanusaaren. If you use a sanskrit

dictionary Kama translates as Love but the meaning in the context of

Yoga meditation is different because it is an esoteric technical

term.)

 

That is the unification of your eyes with what they see, your ears

with what you hear etc. The Yogi meditates on these unions (samavesa)

when they occur and experiences saktikundalini. (Hitting with a

stick means using the sense organs.

Another technical term for the connection of yourself and the shaktis

of the prana in your body is: Union of Siddha and Yogini (Siddha

Yogini sangahaattamakam samavesarama) this happens when the mind takes

 

 

 

 

, "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote:

> Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with Stick

> but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few know how

> to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your measuring

> stick = your sense organs and impressions)

>

> ----Not being an expert in yoga, all I can offer is the experience

of someone I know, and that is this. Kundalini means "lock of hair,"

not snake.

[Guest guest]

So much heat over a few symbols. Chill Babe.

-

mahahradanatha

Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:03 AM

Re: Kundalini

 

 

 

 

 

The picture of the snake is not important, this energy is pictured in

many ways, the snake is a fairly "new" symbol. The Devi residing in

the Chakras has also been symbolised by a goddess in human form, a

fire ,a small red point, a red line etc.

The Stick i am talking about is the point of contact between the

world and yourself. That is where you can meet kundalini. (This is

called: Kama Kala paaramarsaanusaaren. If you use a sanskrit

dictionary Kama translates as Love but the meaning in the context of

Yoga meditation is different because it is an esoteric technical

term.)

 

That is the unification of your eyes with what they see, your ears

with what you hear etc. The Yogi meditates on these unions (samavesa)

when they occur and experiences saktikundalini. (Hitting with a

stick means using the sense organs.

Another technical term for the connection of yourself and the shaktis

of the prana in your body is: Union of Siddha and Yogini (Siddha

Yogini sangahaattamakam samavesarama) this happens when the mind takes

 

 

 

 

, "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote:

> Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with Stick

> but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few know how

> to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your measuring

> stick = your sense organs and impressions)

>

> ----Not being an expert in yoga, all I can offer is the experience

of someone I know, and that is this. Kundalini means "lock of hair,"

not snake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Links

 

/

 

b..

 

c..

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I have thought that the Gadsden flag from the American

Revolution borrowed from the kundalini serpent imagery due to

its featuring a 3 coiled serpent. Here's a link at which you can

view a picture of the flag. http://www.Gadsden.info/history.html I

liked thinking this because yoga has caught on in the west, and

despite the various judgments about how it is practiced or taught

here (which I have read here of late), that yoga is even in the

west at all, and is popular, itself speaks volumes for its value.

 

Another thought: someone posted the other day that a person

only gets to a place of enlightenment by first feeling "disgust"

with aspects of physicality (these are my words, what I got from

the post, which had to do with yoga, body mechanics, and the

discussion of kundalini awakening). To me, the "disgust"

referred to sounded like aversion, as in attraction/aversion,

samsara, etc. Could there be a better word than "disgust" to

describe what was meant?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "Eve__69"

<eve__69@h...> wrote:

> So much heat over a few symbols. Chill Babe.

> -

> mahahradanatha

>

> Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:03 AM

> Re: Kundalini

>

>

>

>

>

> The picture of the snake is not important, this energy is

pictured in

> many ways, the snake is a fairly "new" symbol. The Devi

residing in

> the Chakras has also been symbolised by a goddess in

human form, a

> fire ,a small red point, a red line etc.

> The Stick i am talking about is the point of contact between

the

> world and yourself. That is where you can meet kundalini.

(This is

> called: Kama Kala paaramarsaanusaaren. If you use a

sanskrit

> dictionary Kama translates as Love but the meaning in the

context of

> Yoga meditation is different because it is an esoteric

technical

> term.)

>

> That is the unification of your eyes with what they see, your

ears

> with what you hear etc. The Yogi meditates on these unions

(samavesa)

> when they occur and experiences saktikundalini. (Hitting with

a

> stick means using the sense organs.

> Another technical term for the connection of yourself and the

shaktis

> of the prana in your body is: Union of Siddha and Yogini

(Siddha

> Yogini sangahaattamakam samavesarama) this happens

when the mind takes

>

>

>

>

> , "Eve__69"

<eve__69@h...> wrote:

> > Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with

Stick

> > but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few know

how

> > to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your

measuring

> > stick = your sense organs and impressions)

> >

> > ----Not being an expert in yoga, all I can offer is the

experience

> of someone I know, and that is this. Kundalini means "lock of

hair,"

> not snake.

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

> Links

>

>

> /

>

> b..

>

>

> c.. Terms

of Service.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

---that yoga is even in the

west at all, and is popular, itself speaks volumes for its value.

 

 

---People criticize Westerners like we're some dopes here. But the fact that the

gurus of the world come to us rather than us going to them also speaks volumns

about merit.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am sorry i do not know much about american history, so i cannot

comment on the flag.

I know that the Indian flag should have been originally in orange

color- only becuase mahatma gandhi was objecting against that, ist is

the way it is now.

But on to the other question i can comment:

Inner Development is a natural process as i said just like inbreath

and outbreath, or the heartbeat.

This turning point of the outward and inward current is marked by

disgust towards the outward movement (the outer world with the

attachment to name and form only) this is because the outward

movement has simply exhausted all its power and you are left without

any aim so to stay alive you have turn back and dissolve all you have

achieved (the universe). You could say you breath in because of

disgust for the outward breath

 

Life is constantly propelled onwards by aversion and repulsion, being

attached to the 2 is the main factor that causes avidya. Being non

attached to them means being able to watch and understandthe

effect and interreleation of these forces and gives one a valuable

help in furthering ones spiritual development.

 

If you meditate on your breath process you do not stop the in and

outward movement you only begin to watch it.

 

You go through a small death process at the turning point of each

breath. Kundalini awakening can happen at the end of the old breath

and the beginning of the new.

 

Kundalini is also concernend with the real physical death

experience (the sequence of the dissolving of the tattwas (elemenst)

during the ascent of Kundalini is occuring in the same sequence

during the process of death of the physical body (this happens

also while falling asleep)

 

Meditating on this moment of falling asleep is therefore one method

of Yoga meditation connected with the same yoga teching that is

concerned with the awakening of kundalini.

 

During the end of the breath tattwas dissolve quickly, so fast you

usually do not notice that you go through a death process your world

gets dissolved (like in the Laya-Kundalini meditation) at the end of

each breath also naturally but very fast.

It requires a high degree of awareness to stay awake and remember

yourself to experience the samadhi at the end of breath,because we

fall into unconciousness in that very moment and forget immediately

afterwards where we have been and what we have experienced.

If you meditate at the turning point of the breath the first sign of

success will be if you notice that you glide into unconciousness and

come out again,the next step would be to try to stay awake-aware

multiplied by 3.

 

Some teachers say that the process of Kundalini meditation using the

symbols of the chakra and the spine etc. are artifical and do not

work as well as the meditation on the natural processes like breath,

sleep state meditation etc.

 

, "Mary Ann"

<buttercookie61> wrote:

>

> I have thought that the Gadsden flag from the American

> Revolution borrowed from the kundalini serpent imagery due to

> its featuring a 3 coiled serpent. Here's a link at which you can

> view a picture of the flag. http://www.Gadsden.info/history.html I

> liked thinking this because yoga has caught on in the west, and

> despite the various judgments about how it is practiced or taught

> here (which I have read here of late), that yoga is even in the

> west at all, and is popular, itself speaks volumes for its value.

>

> Another thought: someone posted the other day that a person

> only gets to a place of enlightenment by first feeling "disgust"

> with aspects of physicality (these are my words, what I got from

> the post, which had to do with yoga, body mechanics, and the

> discussion of kundalini awakening). To me, the "disgust"

> referred to sounded like aversion, as in attraction/aversion,

> samsara, etc. Could there be a better word than "disgust" to

> describe what was meant?

>

, "Eve__69"

> <eve__69@h...> wrote:

> > So much heat over a few symbols. Chill Babe.

> > -

> > mahahradanatha

> >

> > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:03 AM

> > Re: Kundalini

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The picture of the snake is not important, this energy is

> pictured in

> > many ways, the snake is a fairly "new" symbol. The Devi

> residing in

> > the Chakras has also been symbolised by a goddess in

> human form, a

> > fire ,a small red point, a red line etc.

> > The Stick i am talking about is the point of contact between

> the

> > world and yourself. That is where you can meet kundalini.

> (This is

> > called: Kama Kala paaramarsaanusaaren. If you use a

> sanskrit

> > dictionary Kama translates as Love but the meaning in the

> context of

> > Yoga meditation is different because it is an esoteric

> technical

> > term.)

> >

> > That is the unification of your eyes with what they see, your

> ears

> > with what you hear etc. The Yogi meditates on these unions

> (samavesa)

> > when they occur and experiences saktikundalini. (Hitting with

> a

> > stick means using the sense organs.

> > Another technical term for the connection of yourself and the

> shaktis

> > of the prana in your body is: Union of Siddha and Yogini

> (Siddha

> > Yogini sangahaattamakam samavesarama) this happens

> when the mind takes

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , "Eve__69"

> <eve__69@h...> wrote:

> > > Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it with

> Stick

> > > but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few

know

> how

> > > to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your

> measuring

> > > stick = your sense organs and impressions)

> > >

> > > ----Not being an expert in yoga, all I can offer is the

> experience

> > of someone I know, and that is this. Kundalini means "lock of

> hair,"

> > not snake.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

------------

> > Links

> >

> >

> > /

> >

> > b..

> >

> >

> > c.. Terms

> of Service.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I am sorry i do not understand this comment, please explain it to me.

> So much heat over a few symbols. Chill Babe.

[Guest guest]

It meants something like this. Stop worrying about a lock of hair and a snake

and reduce the heat of your personality with some coolness. Because if you

combine the hot and cool then you will find them united in the central channel.

-

mahahradanatha

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:05 AM

Re: Kundalini

 

 

 

 

 

I am sorry i do not understand this comment, please explain it to me.

> So much heat over a few symbols. Chill Babe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Links

 

/

 

b..

 

c..

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I thought we were discussing methods of kundalini meditation, not the

mental state of the participants in that discussion.

 

But surely my remarks on kundalini proper are not "off topic"?

 

My interest is in the sadhana, sorry that I am not interested in

discussing the mental state of the members of this group, including my

own.

 

 

, "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote:

> It meants something like this. Stop worrying about a lock of hair

and a snake and reduce the heat of your personality with some

coolness. Because if you combine the hot and cool then you will find

them united in the central channel.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for taking the time to post this. I posted another

description of enlightenment on this topic that uses the word

"fun" which may not be impressive to some, but I like it better

than "disgust."

 

, "mahahradanatha"

<mahahradanatha> wrote:

>

>

> I am sorry i do not know much about american history, so i

cannot

> comment on the flag.

> I know that the Indian flag should have been originally in

orange

> color- only becuase mahatma gandhi was objecting against

that, ist is

> the way it is now.

> But on to the other question i can comment:

> Inner Development is a natural process as i said just like

inbreath

> and outbreath, or the heartbeat.

> This turning point of the outward and inward current is marked

by

> disgust towards the outward movement (the outer world with

the

> attachment to name and form only) this is because the

outward

> movement has simply exhausted all its power and you are left

without

> any aim so to stay alive you have turn back and dissolve all you

have

> achieved (the universe). You could say you breath in because

of

> disgust for the outward breath

>

> Life is constantly propelled onwards by aversion and

repulsion, being

> attached to the 2 is the main factor that causes avidya. Being

non

> attached to them means being able to watch and

understandthe

> effect and interreleation of these forces and gives one a

valuable

> help in furthering ones spiritual development.

>

> If you meditate on your breath process you do not stop the in

and

> outward movement you only begin to watch it.

>

> You go through a small death process at the turning point of

each

> breath. Kundalini awakening can happen at the end of the old

breath

> and the beginning of the new.

>

> Kundalini is also concernend with the real physical death

> experience (the sequence of the dissolving of the tattwas

(elemenst)

> during the ascent of Kundalini is occuring in the same

sequence

> during the process of death of the physical body (this

happens

> also while falling asleep)

>

> Meditating on this moment of falling asleep is therefore one

method

> of Yoga meditation connected with the same yoga teching that

is

> concerned with the awakening of kundalini.

>

> During the end of the breath tattwas dissolve quickly, so fast

you

> usually do not notice that you go through a death process your

world

> gets dissolved (like in the Laya-Kundalini meditation) at the

end of

> each breath also naturally but very fast.

> It requires a high degree of awareness to stay awake and

remember

> yourself to experience the samadhi at the end of

breath,because we

> fall into unconciousness in that very moment and forget

immediately

> afterwards where we have been and what we have

experienced.

> If you meditate at the turning point of the breath the first sign of

> success will be if you notice that you glide into

unconciousness and

> come out again,the next step would be to try to stay

awake-aware

> multiplied by 3.

>

> Some teachers say that the process of Kundalini meditation

using the

> symbols of the chakra and the spine etc. are artifical and do

not

> work as well as the meditation on the natural processes like

breath,

> sleep state meditation etc.

>

> , "Mary Ann"

> <buttercookie61> wrote:

> >

> > I have thought that the Gadsden flag from the American

> > Revolution borrowed from the kundalini serpent imagery due

to

> > its featuring a 3 coiled serpent. Here's a link at which you can

> > view a picture of the flag.

http://www.Gadsden.info/history.html I

> > liked thinking this because yoga has caught on in the west,

and

> > despite the various judgments about how it is practiced or

taught

> > here (which I have read here of late), that yoga is even in the

> > west at all, and is popular, itself speaks volumes for its

value.

> >

> > Another thought: someone posted the other day that a

person

> > only gets to a place of enlightenment by first feeling "disgust"

> > with aspects of physicality (these are my words, what I got

from

> > the post, which had to do with yoga, body mechanics, and the

> > discussion of kundalini awakening). To me, the "disgust"

> > referred to sounded like aversion, as in attraction/aversion,

> > samsara, etc. Could there be a better word than "disgust" to

> > describe what was meant?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , "Eve__69"

> > <eve__69@h...> wrote:

> > > So much heat over a few symbols. Chill Babe.

> > > -

> > > mahahradanatha

> > >

> > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:03 AM

> > > Re: Kundalini

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The picture of the snake is not important, this energy is

> > pictured in

> > > many ways, the snake is a fairly "new" symbol. The Devi

> > residing in

> > > the Chakras has also been symbolised by a goddess in

> > human form, a

> > > fire ,a small red point, a red line etc.

> > > The Stick i am talking about is the point of contact

between

> > the

> > > world and yourself. That is where you can meet kundalini.

> > (This is

> > > called: Kama Kala paaramarsaanusaaren. If you use a

> > sanskrit

> > > dictionary Kama translates as Love but the meaning in the

> > context of

> > > Yoga meditation is different because it is an esoteric

> > technical

> > > term.)

> > >

> > > That is the unification of your eyes with what they see, your

> > ears

> > > with what you hear etc. The Yogi meditates on these

unions

> > (samavesa)

> > > when they occur and experiences saktikundalini. (Hitting

with

> > a

> > > stick means using the sense organs.

> > > Another technical term for the connection of yourself and

the

> > shaktis

> > > of the prana in your body is: Union of Siddha and Yogini

> > (Siddha

> > > Yogini sangahaattamakam samavesarama) this happens

> > when the mind takes

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "Eve__69"

> > <eve__69@h...> wrote:

> > > > Kundalini is a snake that can be awakened by hitting it

with

> > Stick

> > > > but this is a secret stick everybody has it but only a few

> know

> > how

> > > > to wield it the cause of both pain and pleasure (your

> > measuring

> > > > stick = your sense organs and impressions)

> > > >

> > > > ----Not being an expert in yoga, all I can offer is the

> > experience

> > > of someone I know, and that is this. Kundalini means

"lock of

> > hair,"

> > > not snake.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> ------------

> > > Links

> > >

> > >

> > > /

> > >

> > > b..

> > >

> > >

> > > c..

Terms

> > of Service.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Sorry, but my friend felt that you offended her when you came back in a rather

self righteous and tutorial manner after she had so openly offered her personal

experience for purview, so in spite of your objections to the contrary, your

responses were in fact sort of 'hot.'

 

She really wanted to tell you that you seem well versed in typical kundalini

lore, but lacking in personal experience. She held back and now the results are

your confusion, and her feeling sorry for having ever entered the conversation

in the first place.

 

Are you in fact a Nath? I thought that Naths were supposed to really really

understand the kundalini. But understanding doesn't quite fit the textbook

definition though subtle sophistry may make it seem thus. To wit, of what use is

understanding which tattvas go where and what they do. At which point of

fineness of a hairs width will you be able to make kundalini rise when She

Herself only can grant her benefit?

 

To make a definition of what will or wont stimulate kundalini is mere egoism.

Where kundalini is, avidya is not. There can be no union of the two. When

kundalini practice makes too much sense then it's a sure sign that avidya in

tandem with the ego is trying to control the controller Herself.

 

If the path is of uncovering that which superceeds intellect, then no amount of

understanding will produce results. When people explain things to me in detail

then I find them lacking the necessary heart quality which is itself the most

important of distilled drops of the philosophy. To wit, many intellectuals

reason away poverty, slavery and fear, so that the egoic nature of the beast

will pass these by without feeling, whereas the heart will suffer for these

qualities in others. The intellect is the true source of evil action, as it also

is the most powerful drug in the world, because it stimulates the ego to

megalomania, especially in wayward spiritual aspirants. Whereas in simplicity

one will see the tears in the child's eyes and give them half of ones lunch.

Should one not share then kundalini be damned because what's her greatest value?

Compassion. That's all!

 

We were only trying to tell you to check yourself, as you're preaching to the

converted here. If you say kundalini exists to the right then I'm here to tell

you that it exists also to the left. That's all.

 

Beyond the few words you spoke I know nothing of you, so please do not be

offended when I missed the mark. I exist to tell you that I am certain that I

have mistaken you for something that you are not. My guess is that you are here

to help as I am, I just am constantly striving to separate those who obfuscate

from those who simplify.

 

Tantra is easy, religion is difficult.

-

mahahradanatha

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:17 AM

Re: Kundalini

 

 

 

I thought we were discussing methods of kundalini meditation, not the

mental state of the participants in that discussion.

 

But surely my remarks on kundalini proper are not "off topic"?

 

My interest is in the sadhana, sorry that I am not interested in

discussing the mental state of the members of this group, including my

own.

 

 

, "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote:

> It meants something like this. Stop worrying about a lock of hair

and a snake and reduce the heat of your personality with some

coolness. Because if you combine the hot and cool then you will find

them united in the central channel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Links

 

/

 

b..

 

c..

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

mahahradanatha wrote:

 

"Disgust for samsara is an absolute necessary state of mind for the kundalini

process changing from sristhi to sththi"

 

I don't agree with you, cause that would mean a psychopatic (lovefree) attitude

to all your fellow beings, the nature, the animals and life itself.

 

Regards

 

Lars

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

1. I consider personal experiences a matter between the human

devotee and the Devata of his choice only.

I do not comment on others experiences or attainment. Thats why my

only comment to your/your friends posting was that there are a lot

of different ways to experience kundalini based on the mind set and

senses of the individual. What is true for your friend might be but

need not be necessarily true for someone else.

 

2.I do not wish to discuss comments about my experiences either. So i

wont discuss your friends and your doubts and critics about my person

or my "attainments" these where never part of my posting. I consider

this "off topic" If you want to discuss the attainment

of "Mahahradhanatha" or wheter he is a nath or not, has kundalini

experience or not, or if you like to discuss my motives for posting

this is open to you, do as you wish, but to what avail?

 

I remember someone saying there are about 330 million gods and

godesses worshipped in india, each one with devotees and each

connected with a differing philsophy and practices. There is enough

room for all of them to exist beside each other. I sincerely believe

(or should i say hope) that there is enough room for my exposition

and your friends experience to exist beside each other in this

group.

[Guest guest]

Then the heartbeat or breathing is also psychopathic, because it is

governend by the Law of Repulsion and Attraction?

Everything that expands has to retract also. Everything that lives

will finally die and decompose.

If you are on a outward expansive current you should not awaken

kundalini only if you are on an inward bound current, this inward

bound current is always associated with an attraction towards the

spiritual and a repulsion (disgust) toward Samsara. Samsara means the

vicious cycle of ever recurring births and deaths. The ultimate Aim

of EVERY Religion that EVER originated in India is to eventually

escape from Samsara. Disgust for Samsara is the COMMON BASE of all

Asian Religions including most Religions of the Far east.

Maybe you picked the wrong hobby?

 

 

, Lars Hedström <lars@2...>

wrote:

>

> mahahradanatha wrote:

>

> "Disgust for samsara is an absolute necessary state of mind for the

kundalini process changing from sristhi to sththi"

>

> I don't agree with you, cause that would mean a psychopatic

(lovefree) attitude to all your fellow beings, the nature, the

animals and life itself.

>

> Regards

>

> Lars

 

[Guest guest]

I don't think it is accurate to put together the expansion and

contraction of heart and breath with the concepts of aversion and

attraction. There is no "disgust" in the heart's beating or the

lungs' expansion or contraction. The organs are simply doing their

jobs. Also, the use of the word "disgust," no matter how often you

assert it, and even quote others who assert it, gurus, Amma, etc.

will not make it work for everyone. As you say, differences can co-

exist, and no personal slights are called for. This post seems like

you're not heeding your own advice, and the smiley icon doesn't hide

that.

 

 

, "mahahradanatha"

<mahahradanatha> wrote:

>

>

> Then the heartbeat or breathing is also psychopathic, because it

is

> governend by the Law of Repulsion and Attraction?

> Everything that expands has to retract also. Everything that lives

> will finally die and decompose.

> If you are on a outward expansive current you should not awaken

> kundalini only if you are on an inward bound current, this inward

> bound current is always associated with an attraction towards the

> spiritual and a repulsion (disgust) toward Samsara. Samsara means

the

> vicious cycle of ever recurring births and deaths. The ultimate

Aim

> of EVERY Religion that EVER originated in India is to eventually

> escape from Samsara. Disgust for Samsara is the COMMON BASE of all

> Asian Religions including most Religions of the Far east.

> Maybe you picked the wrong hobby?

>

>

> , Lars Hedström <lars@2...>

> wrote:

> >

> > mahahradanatha wrote:

> >

> > "Disgust for samsara is an absolute necessary state of mind for

the

> kundalini process changing from sristhi to sththi"

> >

> > I don't agree with you, cause that would mean a psychopatic

> (lovefree) attitude to all your fellow beings, the nature, the

> animals and life itself.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Lars

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Mahahradanatha wrote:

 

"The ultimate Aim of EVERY Religion that EVER originated in India is to

eventually

escape from Samsara. Disgust for Samsara is the COMMON BASE of all

Asian Religions including most Religions of the Far east.

Maybe you picked the wrong hobby? :)"

 

But I do not practice any dogmatic religion, I am constructing and practizing my

own religion.

 

One great person - or guru - is Paul Brunton.

 

"Not to escape life, but to articulate it,

is philosophy's practical goal." - Paul Brunton

 

This is my life-sentence.

 

In one of his books Brunton tells how he during a trip to Himalaya visited a

holy man living in the mountains. When he was to leave the holy man invited him

to stay, but Brunton wanted to go back to West. The holy man asked why he wanted

to return to West. Brunton answered that he had work to do there. Then the holy

man said that only desire could get a human to leave the spiritual silence among

the mountains of Himalya. Then he read the following quotation:

 

"God + desire = human. Human - desire = God. "

 

 

Brunton left the holy man. To Brunton he represented the old-fashioned spiritual

ideal, which only finds evil in worldly activity. From his viewpoint he was

ofcourse right, but Brunton was convinced that he himself also was right from

his own viewpoint. Only that human can return to the world, with all its

temptations and tryings, who master them alrady in his hearth. The best thing

for all other people is to stay away from the world where the temptations do not

reach them, is Bruntons message.

 

Brunton also give examples on people who have lost their spirtuality due to

worldly activities and temptations.

 

Brunton's homepage where there is more to read about him and his philosophy (not

a western one) which is a mixture between east and west:

 

http://www.paulbrunton.org/

 

Regards

 

Lars

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Just my two cents. There WERE 330 million Gods; now the figure has grown to 1.2+

Billion.

 

Regarding Kundalini I know next to nothing. I been trying to goad it with sticks

and whatnot for 30+ years. But the fellow has not even stirred in his/her/its

sleep even

 

mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha wrote:

 

1. I consider personal experiences a matter between the human devotee and the

Devata of his choice only.

I do not comment on others experiences or attainment. Thats why my only comment

to your/your friends posting was that there are a lot of different ways to

experience kundalini based on the mind set and senses of the individual. What is

true for your friend might be but need not be necessarily true for someone

else.

 

2.I do not wish to discuss comments about my experiences either. So i wont

discuss your friends and your doubts and critics about my person or my

"attainments" these where never part of my posting. I consider this "off topic"

If you want to discuss the attainment of "Mahahradhanatha" or wheter he is a

nath or not, has kundalini experience or not, or if you like to discuss my

motives for posting this is open to you, do as you wish, but to what avail?

 

I remember someone saying there are about 330 million gods and godesses

worshipped in india, each one with devotees and each connected with a

differing philsophy and practices. There is enough room for all of them to exist

beside each other. I sincerely believe (or should i say hope) that there is

enough room for my exposition and your friends experience to exist beside each

other in this

group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Regarding Kundalini I know next to nothing. I been trying to goad it with sticks

and whatnot for 30+ years. But the fellow has not even stirred in his/her/its

sleep even

 

----That is sad. Is there nothing you can do? What about a simple prayer to Her?

Have you tried that? The hour is getting late.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...> wrote:

>

> Regarding Kundalini I know next to nothing. I been trying to goad it

with sticks and whatnot for 30+ years. But the fellow has not even

stirred in his/her/its sleep even

>

> ----That is sad. Is there nothing you can do? What about a simple

prayer to Her? Have you tried that? The hour is getting late.

 

 

Maybe wrong stick. How about the magic wane?

[Guest guest]

In the "Hindu" philosophy there are 4 legitimate Aims of Mankind

Dharma Artha Kama and Moksha.

That means worldy activity (artha and Kama)is a legitimate aim of

mankind, but to follow that the Aim it is a common basis of all asian

belief systems that it is necessary to have a repulsion towards

samsara.

 

This should be known to anybody interest in "Hindu" .

I am sorry to say so but it appears amusing and a little bit absurd

to me that i have to defend this position in a group that is called

Sakta Sadhana.

 

, Lars Hedström <lars@2...>

wrote:

> Mahahradanatha wrote:

>

> "The ultimate Aim of EVERY Religion that EVER originated in India

is to eventually

> escape from Samsara. Disgust for Samsara is the COMMON BASE of all

> Asian Religions including most Religions of the Far east.

> Maybe you picked the wrong hobby? :)"

[Guest guest]

I refer you to the answer i gave to lars.

 

No matter how hard you try, the ultimate aim of the indian religions

is not worldly, nor has it ever been.

Maybe you will be more happy with a new age based belief system?

 

 

, "Mary Ann"

<buttercookie61> wrote:

> I don't think it is accurate to put together the expansion and

> contraction of heart and breath with the concepts of aversion and

> attraction.

[Guest guest]

Don´t be sad about that: the guru of my guru has said that if you

feel something moving down near the belly please go visit the

Doctor it is most probably a tape worm not a snake.

 

, sankara menon <kochu1tz>

wrote:

> Just my two cents. There WERE 330 million Gods; now the figure has

grown to 1.2+ Billion.

>

> Regarding Kundalini I know next to nothing. I been trying to goad

it with sticks and whatnot for 30+ years. But the fellow has not even

stirred in his/her/its sleep even

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/28/2005 1:52:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

kalipadma108 writes:

This Neo-Pagan woman stated that she was very fond of

Hatha Yoga, and benefitted much from the physical

exercise, but was turned off by the spiritual aspects

of Hatha Yoga. "Why must they emphasize turning away

from Samsara?" she asked. "I am Pagan, and I love the

world of form. I look forward to all the fascinating

incarnations I will have in future lives. I want to

continue coming back, life after life."

I also feel torn by this! In a way I simply do not think that I am ready to

leave. I can hardly play my instruments, meditate or connect with Ma like I

want to.

 

I was blessed by some visions of Ma which changed my life before I even knew

a thing about Hinduism! BUT it seems like once I tried to immerse myself in

studies she left ;-)

 

So now here I am reading books, thinking about these things, trying to learn

other languages, practicing as much Bhakti as I can, but without a Guru

feeling quite lost.

 

Can I master myself in the short time that is left?? I am not so sure. Also I

do love the earth and earthly things. I enjoy indulgences, but also value the

ability to abstain (not so easy!). Yes there is pain in life, but that

compliments the joy doesn't it?

 

Maybe you are right however.......I have noticed some crankiness creeping in

and if I practice Tabla for 5 hours in a day my back aches a little more than

it did even just 4 years ago. I might be ready to go before long!

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ahh, therein is the problem. Not all tantrics are Hindu. I'm a Buddhist tantric.

Yes, to my knowledge, Buddhist tantra is the only tantra specifically formulated

to make samsara into nirvana through realization through daily life and not

through retreats and running always elsewhere. In Buddhist philosophy in general

there is one and not four dharmas. the one Dharma is liberation. And that

liberation is the same in a cave as in a house, on a cushion as on a lover, and

in an empty stomach as well as one that's full.

 

Moreover Mahakali loves more the lover than the repulsive hater. Or so I would

guess. Is that right Mahakali? She says, "Yessssssssssssss." I just asked her

again and She said, "Noooooooooooo." It's best not to place words in the

Ultimate's mouth. All things are contained under the sun, and only we fools

think that there's no room for one or another.

-

mahahradanatha

Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:30 AM

Re: Kundalini

 

 

In the "Hindu" philosophy there are 4 legitimate Aims of Mankind

Dharma Artha Kama and Moksha.

That means worldy activity (artha and Kama)is a legitimate aim of

mankind, but to follow that the Aim it is a common basis of all asian

belief systems that it is necessary to have a repulsion towards

samsara.

 

This should be known to anybody interest in "Hindu" .

I am sorry to say so but it appears amusing and a little bit absurd

to me that i have to defend this position in a group that is called

Sakta Sadhana.

 

, Lars Hedström <lars@2...>

wrote:

> Mahahradanatha wrote:

>

> "The ultimate Aim of EVERY Religion that EVER originated in India

is to eventually

> escape from Samsara. Disgust for Samsara is the COMMON BASE of all

> Asian Religions including most Religions of the Far east.

> Maybe you picked the wrong hobby? :)"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Links

 

/

 

b..

 

c..