The REALISED One

[Guest guest]

No, I am afraid I can't give you any titles..I read

about it in "Daughters of the Goddess" by Linda

Johnsen. I expect you could look around on her sites

and see if there are any books about her (she doesn't

speak English) that spell out her experiences, or

maybe one of her devotees on this site could direct

you. The most remarkable account of her I thought, was

the story of how her devotees saw her actually licking

a leper's sores to heal them! I have heard of such

things before elsewhere, but it was always as a sort

of "legend" and not about a real person. I also heard

a similar story about Ramakrishna and Vivekananda,

though this was a sort of "shaktipat" and not a

healing.

Lilith M.

 

--- Mary Ann <buttercookie61 wrote:

>

> Dear Lili:

>

> Can you direct me to a source material that

> discusses Amma's time

> spent on a beach motionless/speechless?

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is related that a man dying of tuberculosis

was brought on a stretcher to Bamakhepa. He grabbed

the man around the neck and shook him roughly,

shouting "Now will you commit any more sin???!" And

the man "rose up and walked!"

Lilith M.

 

--- Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote:

> I love the avadhutas. When they spit on someone, it

> is prasad. When

> they strike a blow, it takes away negative karma, or

> lifts awareness

> in some way. However, I've never heard of one who

> was concerned to

> protest that others did not recognize their

> enlightenment, accept

> their teachings, or for that matter, gave a damn

> what anyone else

> thinks of them. Quite the opposite.

>

> >So, hanging on to the illusion that "realization"

> always transforms

> >one into a physical embodiment of "sweetness and

> light towards all"

> >according to popular definition will seriously

> hamper one in the

> >recognition of the "realization" of

> >one's own self, or of others!

>

> Illusion or not, paradoxical behavior

> notwithstanding, anyone merged

> with the Divine Source is acting out of love. It may

> not seem like

> it, but cannot be otherwise.

>

> Max

>

> --

> Max Dashu

> Suppressed Histories Archives

> Global Women's History

> http://www.suppressedhistories.net

[Guest guest]

"Lili Masamura" wrote:

> What, you mean you want to carry your karmic burden

> forever?

 

Yes

> We are meant to evolve PAST the need for

> physical bodies...wanting to stay stuck here in the

> physical realm is spiritual stagnation!

 

No, I like it here. If someone want to say no to life go ahead, I won't.

 

If you mean,

> however, that you wish to be of service to humanity,

> and to hang around as a bodhisattva, rather than be

> dissolved in the Infinite,

 

I do not want to be dissolved in the infinite.

 

Sounds not very funny.

 

 

Lars

[Guest guest]

Lars Hedström : No, I like it here. If someone want to say no to

life go ahead, I won't.

 

Lili : If you mean,however, that you wish to be of service to

humanity, and to hang around as a bodhisattva, rather than be

dissolved in the Infinite,

 

Lars wrote : I do not want to be dissolved in the infinite. Sounds

not very funny.

 

 

No lars it is not funny, but a logical one. You are still young and

you still a lot more to contribute to society, so why should you

forgo all of them. Society and the world needs somebody like Lars. A

responsible and committed young man. Why should he renounce all of

these. He will definitely one day when he have done what there is to

be done and eventually dissapper, and let the younger blood to take

over his role. Isnt that what life is all about and a logical cycle?

[Guest guest]

NMadasamy wrote: No lars it is not funny, but a logical one. You

are still young and you still a lot more to contribute to society,

so why should you forgo all of them. Society and the world needs

somebody like Lars. A responsible and committed young man. Why

should he renounce all of these. He will definitely one day when he

have done what there is to be done and eventually dissapper, and let

the younger blood to take over his role. Isnt that what life is all

about and a logical cycle?

 

 

sorry just come out from my head.... cant help it, or I will not be

able to sleep later on. I just thought Lars will come and say : I do

not want to dissapper.

 

Hmmmm unless of course if Lars has become an immortal, then he would

not disappear. Remember the series The Highlander. He is an

Immortal.

 

I remember during my nursing days, there are stories of devoted

nurses who have died but are still seen around in the hospital

environment. There is a popular belief that these nurses have made a

vow and that they have chosen to remain on earth to continue to be

of service to humanity. And you can always see these good souls

around in time of need. I read once a story in a nursing journal of

how they saw a "nurse" sitting by a child's bedside

praying. A senior nurse saw it from the next room, immediately went

over to the child, they discovered the child is having high fever.

These are not isolated cases. My own personal experiences are

numerous. So perhaps Lars is right. Why should he want to dissolve

in the infinite or disappear, if he can still contribute for the

good of humanity?

[Guest guest]

Her biography tells the whole story,,, Ammachi: A Biography,

another (older?) version is titled Amma: Mother of Immortal Bliss.

 

Not just on the beach, but in many places. Her parents threw her out,

and compassionate neighbor women would find her immersed in mud or

sand in what appeared to be an unconscious state. Other times she

would sit meditating for days on end.

 

She has said that she would have been happy to remain in that state,

enjoying the bliss, but resolved instead to offer her life for the

good of humanity.

 

Max

> > Can you direct me to a source material that

>> discusses Amma's time

> > spent on a beach motionless/speechless?

 

--

Max Dashu

Suppressed Histories Archives

Global Women's History

http://www.suppressedhistories.net

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well, that's what I said...one can eventually choose to dissolve into the

Infinite, or one can become a bodhisattva, that is, one who renounces Nirvana to

serve humanity both in an discarnate and in an incarnate form, until the time of

Pralaya.

 

Lilith M.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Max. I have not been sure which book(s) to read; have read 3

but none told of that specific time on the beach. It's that

particular time I'm interested in due to a project I'm working on.

 

, Max Dashu <maxdashu@l...>

wrote:

> Her biography tells the whole story,,, Ammachi: A Biography,

> another (older?) version is titled Amma: Mother of Immortal Bliss.

>

> Not just on the beach, but in many places. Her parents threw her

out,

> and compassionate neighbor women would find her immersed in mud

or

> sand in what appeared to be an unconscious state. Other times she

> would sit meditating for days on end.

>

> She has said that she would have been happy to remain in that

state,

> enjoying the bliss, but resolved instead to offer her life for the

> good of humanity.

>

> Max

>

> > > Can you direct me to a source material that

> >> discusses Amma's time

> > > spent on a beach motionless/speechless?

>

> --

> Max Dashu

> Suppressed Histories Archives

> Global Women's History

> http://www.suppressedhistories.net

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is the buddhist view, let us keep in mind that other traditions have other

views.

 

Lars

 

--- Lilith wrote:

>Well, that's what I said...one can >eventually choose to dissolve into the

>Infinite, or one can become a bodhisattva, >that is, one who renounces Nirvana

to

>serve humanity both in an discarnate and >in an incarnate form, until the time

of >Pralaya.

[Guest guest]

Lilith wrote: Well, that's what I said...one can >eventually choose

to dissolve into the Infinite, or one can become a bodhisattva, that

is, one who renounces Nirvana to serve humanity both in an

discarnate and >in an incarnate form, until the time of >Pralaya

 

Lars Hedström wrote: This is the buddhist view, let us keep in mind

that other traditions have other views.

 

 

I remembered being told that once you reached the Sri Vidya, that is

the end of your journey. You do not get reborn.

[Guest guest]

I remembered being told that once you reached the Sri Vidya, that is

the end of your journey. You do not get reborn.

 

 

 

---------Much of the very idea of enlightenment came from the Buddha and others

of his time like Mahavira. Prior to that time enlightenment wasn't something

for people who weren't rishis in India. Of course, there were many less people

back then too. Buddha, Mahavira, and some others were the relief from the usual

strictures of a very elaborate society of caste, and varna. These holy men were

like what Jesus did for Judaism, that is, opened the ranks to the riff raff, and

undesirables to practice in a very discriminatory world in India. China had some

mystery schools as Taoism was well developed at that time.

 

Furthermore, enlightenment really had no exact definition before the concept of

Nirvana. Or if there were concepts, most of them were somewhat Upanishadic, but

still not clear about what liberation itself was. Yoga surely was taught,

probably included in tantric arts for the few. Much of yoga was shrouded in

mystery to scare the dilitant off. The path to liberation is only for those who

really aren't happy living in this world. If one is a materialist then they

should live that way or they will feel deprived of their life. Being a scarey

guru is compassionate to those undecided ones who are fascinated with the Path

but not for it.

 

One can argue that without the understanding of the concept of nirvana that

there is no liberation or enlightenment. Even for Hindus.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Eve__69 wrote:

 

"Much of the very idea of enlightenment came from the Buddha and others of his

time like Mahavira."

 

The question is if Enlightment is the same experience for everybody reaching it?

 

Lars

[Guest guest]

AAA...Dear , Lilith ...You do get around dont you ? ........Love and

Light ...Blane

 

, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...>

wrote:

>

> Lilith wrote: Well, that's what I said...one can >eventually choose

> to dissolve into the Infinite, or one can become a bodhisattva,

that

> is, one who renounces Nirvana to serve humanity both in an

> discarnate and >in an incarnate form, until the time of >Pralaya

>

> Lars Hedström wrote: This is the buddhist view, let us keep in mind

> that other traditions have other views.

>

>

> I remembered being told that once you reached the Sri Vidya, that

is

> the end of your journey. You do not get reborn.

[Guest guest]

Right, that is the question. Prior to the specific definition that Buddha gives

there were many ways to define liberation, but no cohesive, specific

understanding about the cessation of the vrittis of the mind and freedom in the

Absolute. Nirvana and the Kaivalya of Patanjali (its yogic analogue) are about

training the mind to remain absorbed in their own quiescent nature.

Understanding the Abdolute as ones nature automatically, and all the rest as

residing upon it as one, is close to the basic definition of liberation that

people have, most specifically taught by the Historical Buddha and probably best

adapted to daily life by the Vajrayana Buddhists and Bon.

 

I would be interested to hear definitions of liberation that could be said to

have had no connection even most tentative with Buddha in any way. Yes, those

few Aboriginal definitions, those Castanedean throwbacks are the few truely

original viewpoints.

 

Though Castaneda could be said to be contrived nonetheless his passage to the

Eagle is an interesting liberation. McKenna has his elfspice and Crysanthemums,

and alien elves with contraption faberge eggs and strange tongues in an alien

mind crisscrossing our own being, to which we will partake when free of the

Gaian Earth body and its ego. We will again partake of the purely virtual and

creative substrata of pure creation. In fact, to McKenna we humans can more

closely crosscurrent our minds with the totality of presence of the Now through

psychedelics and passionate dance and other ecstatic means and the population as

a whole could transcend its limitations.

 

As with the Veda, the Sambogakaya, and other to my mind, alligned states of

existance, these last few definitions speak of a timeless strata of life more

refined than the earthly where we can partake when the body dies. Usually the

human key to liberation being some form of controlling the sexual energy or

stimulating it, it then sublimating into ojas, soma, abrosia, nectar, holy

spirit, ghost, or kunda, tejas, and its work stills the mind and makes it

content in the now. Someday we are full, and that's all She wrote.

 

My answer to your question about if there is one liberation is this, you either

know it or you don't. My guess is that as with Kuntuzangpo, one might reside as

well in eternity in enlightenment and yet, never have spoken words or had a

thought before, and yet, know all that there is to know. Enlightenment would be

liberating. So how liberated, and liberating is one? One has ones own mirror of

their state in all that they do.

-

Lars Hedström

Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:02 PM

Re: Re: The REALISED One

 

 

 

Eve__69 wrote:

 

"Much of the very idea of enlightenment came from the Buddha and others of his

time like Mahavira."

 

The question is if Enlightment is the same experience for everybody reaching

it?

 

Lars

 

 

 

 

/

 

b..

 

c..

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Eve__69 wrote:"Much of the very idea of enlightenment came from the Buddha and

others of his time like Mahavira." The question is if Enlightment is the same

experience for everybody reaching it?

 

 

Actually yes...the concept of the "bodhisattva" applies to all religions that

offer "realization". At some point you will have a choice to stay on in

service to humanity or go on and never re-incarnate. They say it in different

ways but the concept is the same across the board.

 

Lilith M.

[Guest guest]

Mary Ann,

 

Read "On the Road to Freedom" by Swami Purnamritananada (aka Neal

Rosner), one of her earliest disciples, to read about incidents in

Amma's life with avadhutas. most westerners find this book easy to

read.

 

Also read her biograhy by Swami Amritaswarupananda, her foremost

disciple. this book assumes a certain familiarity with the rural

indian context of life (which sorrounding is where Ammachi lived).

but the incidents mentioned here are much more numerous, and "raw".

 

Lili,

The "licking" incident is on tape in one of the videos.

 

Both sets of material are available at the MA Center, or through

www.mothersbooks.org

 

Jai ma!

 

, Lili Masamura

<sephirah5> wrote:

>

> No, I am afraid I can't give you any titles..I read

> about it in "Daughters of the Goddess" by Linda

> Johnsen. I expect you could look around on her sites

> and see if there are any books about her (she doesn't

> speak English) that spell out her experiences, or

> maybe one of her devotees on this site could direct

> you. The most remarkable account of her I thought, was

> the story of how her devotees saw her actually licking

> a leper's sores to heal them! I have heard of such

> things before elsewhere, but it was always as a sort

> of "legend" and not about a real person. I also heard

> a similar story about Ramakrishna and Vivekananda,

> though this was a sort of "shaktipat" and not a

> healing.

> Lilith M.

>

> --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote:

>

> >

> > Dear Lili:

> >

> > Can you direct me to a source material that

> > discusses Amma's time

> > spent on a beach motionless/speechless?

[Guest guest]

>Read "On the Road to Freedom" by Swami Purnamritananada (aka Neal Rosner),

 

Paramatmanananda. (Whoa, that was hard to type!)

>The "licking" incident is on tape in one of the videos.

 

It used to be called Vintage Scenes with Mother, the earliest

footage. Also has great scene of Amma dancing in Kali bhava.

 

M

--

Max Dashu

Suppressed Histories Archives

Global Women's History

http://www.suppressedhistories.net

 

 

[Guest guest]

Lilith:

 

"Actually yes...the concept of the "bodhisattva" applies to all religions that

offer "realization". At some point you will have a choice to stay on in

service to humanity or go on and never re-incarnate. They say it in different

ways but the concept is the same across the board."

 

 

Not even Georg Feurstein is sure about that enlightment is the same as it is so

differently described.

 

Neither am I.

 

Lars

 

 

[Guest guest]

every awakened find the same thing, because there IS only one

thing...

 

 

 

 

, Lars Hedström <lars@2...>

wrote:

>

> Lilith:

>

> "Actually yes...the concept of the "bodhisattva" applies to all

religions that offer "realization". At some point you will have a

choice to stay on in

> service to humanity or go on and never re-incarnate. They say it

in different ways but the concept is the same across the board."

>

>

> Not even Georg Feurstein is sure about that enlightment is the

same as it is so differently described.

>

> Neither am I.

>

> Lars

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lars wrote : Not even Georg Feurstein is sure about that enlightment is the same

as it is so differently described. Neither am I.

 

 

A very great deal of spiritual confusion is caused by semantics.In fact, I would

say, MOST of it is. The rest is simple sectarian differences. Everybody wants

the ego-satisfaction of saying "I have found THE ONLY WAY!!!!". But it all adds

up to the same thing in the end! And, has this Georg Feuerstein "attained"? The

only ones qualified to talk about attainment are those who have done so! I

myself got tired of being led around in circles by the writings of other people

who I realized had no clear idea themselves but were only jabbering in fancy

jargon about what they THOUGHT was meant! So I set out to discover the Truth

INSIDE myself, the only place anyone should be looking for it in the first

place! And I made it a PRIORITY...not something that was shoved to the bottom of

the list or fitted in after everything else got attended to! How else could I

show God I meant business? And just as

Master Vimalananda promised, I got results. And I continue to get them. What

else could anyone ask for?

Lilith M.

 

"Student, tell me, what is God?"

"He is the Breath inside the breath."

 

manoj_menon <ammasmon@s...> wrote: Also read her biograhy by Swami

Amritaswarupananda, her foremost disciple. this book assumes a certain

familiarity with the rural indian context of life (which sorrounding is where

Ammachi lived). But the incidents mentioned here are much more

numerous, and "raw".

 

Yes, I remember a story about Neal Rosner..Ammaji advised him to try "crying" to

his guru to break through the stagnant religious place he found himself...this

was brilliant advice! People just go on and on, day after day, doing their

practices by rote, with no emotional involvement, and then wonder why God never

responds...when the despair builds up and bursts its boundaries, THAT is when

things will start to happen! The "fire" of emotion is what fuels the rocket ship

of devotion right towards the heart of God! Ramakrishna did not "realize" until

he gave way to despair at Kali Ma's failure to reveal Herself,and rushed to the

sacrificial sword hanging on the Temple wall in order to kill himself.. and

instantly the Mother appeared, so powerfully that Ramakrishna fainted on the

spot! Radha did not attain to Krishna

until she was at the end of her rope with her longing for Him. The Master

Vimalananda did not attain until he was forced under pain of death to do "shava

sadhana" (meditation atop a dead body)in the dead of night. I myself found that

all major spiritual progress was/is accompanied by emotional outbursts of a

spontaneous character, generally a great wave of crying, followed by a

tremendous wave of laughter, all of which comes to an end quite naturally on its

own! The worst thing for anyone witnessing this sort of thing is to interfere!

One must simply witness, without attempting to "stem the tide" in any way...I

was very grateful afterwards both times, that I had been "let to be" by those

around me, and not made to feel uncomfortable or embarrassed at this outburst,

yet I was thankful for their silent supportive presence! I wonder how many

potential "spiritual breakthroughs" have been prevented by oppressive or

well-meaning companions, who didn't know enough to just "let be", not knowing

that the wave passes on its own?

[Guest guest]

<every awakened find the same thing, <because there IS only one

<thing...

 

Why then do they behave so differently?

>From crazy idiots to noble persons?

 

Lars

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Lilith:

 

"How else could I show God I meant business?"

 

I agree with you - except your use of the word God. The only God I have

experienced is the GODDESS.

 

Lars

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello, I did not understand what you mean..'.why then do they behave so

differently' who are they? how many people did you meet that found

the ONE.? Let me say; there is everything in this wholeness , 'it is oneness and

wholeness' so there are- infinite forms- of perfection in it. Different forms

of excellence, nice isnt it?

 

from crazy idiots to noble persons? who are the crazy idiots? noble persons?

 

 

cella

 

-

"Lars Hedström" <lars

<>

Friday, February 11, 2005 8:33 PM

Re: Re: The REALISED One

 

>

>

> <every awakened find the same thing, <because there IS only one

> <thing...

>

> Why then do they behave so differently?

>

> From crazy idiots to noble persons?

>

> Lars

>

>

>

>

>

>

Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, if one is discussing wholenesses and totalities, then yes, there are

many. For instance, the set of whole numbers from 1-infinity is one wholeness,

the set of negative integers from -1-infinity is also a wholeness, both positive

and negative integers together is another wholeness. that's three so far.

Moreover, the set of fractions between the numbers 1 and 2 are also infinite. So

now we have an infinite set of infinities. So if knowing the wholeness of

existance is a prerequisite for enlightenment then there can be different people

experiencing different wholenesses.

[Guest guest]

There are different people experiencing the wholeness- in different

things -

 

Realization makle all the differences come to gether and make one

 

, "Eve__69" <eve__69@h...>

wrote:

>

> Actually, if one is discussing wholenesses and totalities, then

yes, there are many. For instance, the set of whole numbers from 1-

infinity is one wholeness, the set of negative integers from -1-

infinity is also a wholeness, both positive and negative integers

together is another wholeness. that's three so far. Moreover, the

set of fractions between the numbers 1 and 2 are also infinite. So

now we have an infinite set of infinities. So if knowing the

wholeness of existance is a prerequisite for enlightenment then

there can be different people experiencing different wholenesses.