The REALISED One

[Guest guest]

sephirah5 wrote: Well, as to knowing how one has

become "enlightened", I started to get an inkling that "it" had

happened when I happened to read some personal accounts of people

who were "realized" and I found I knew EXACTLY what they were

talking about because similar things had and were happening to me.

 

Good Morning Sephirah, Thank you.

 

"Mind is the source of freedom and also of bondage"

[Mind according to Vedanta, Swami Satprakashananda]

 

A mind can trap us in our own illusion.

[Guest guest]

Well, someday when it happens to you, maybe then you

will understand what I am saying...

Lilith M.

--- NMadasamy <nmadasamy

wrote:

>

> sephirah5 wrote: Well, as to knowing how one has

> become "enlightened", I started to get an inkling

> that "it" had

> happened when I happened to read some personal

> accounts of people

> who were "realized" and I found I knew EXACTLY what

> they were

> talking about because similar things had and were

> happening to me.

>

> Good Morning Sephirah, Thank you.

>

> "Mind is the source of freedom and also of bondage"

> [Mind according to Vedanta, Swami Satprakashananda]

>

> A mind can trap us in our own illusion.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sephirah5 wrote: Well, someday when it happens to you, maybe then

you will understand what I am saying...

 

Perhaps Sephire! Perhaps! but again, when it ever happens or will

it ever happen , will I know? To be honest, I rather not want to

know about it. I rather not look forward for that day. To me a state

of realization and enlightment is what others see in you and not

what you see into yourself. Once you start to be conscious of

yourself, that is when delusion begin.

 

In Tripura Rahasya : Parasurama remarked about Sage Samvarta, "His

greatness was like red hot coal hidden in embers. Every inch of his

body filled one with exhilaration so that I have a refreshing

feeling in his mere proximity."

[Guest guest]

--- NMadasamy <nmadasamy

wrote:

>

> Sephirah5 wrote: Well, someday when it happens to

> you, maybe then

> you will understand what I am saying...

>

> Perhaps Sephire! Perhaps! but again, when it ever

> happens or will

> it ever happen , will I know? To be honest, I rather

> not want to

> know about it. I rather not look forward for that

> day. To me a state

> of realization and enlightment is what others see in

> you and not

> what you see into yourself. Once you start to be

> conscious of

> yourself, that is when delusion begin.

###############################################

I disagree; Ramakrishna certainly demonstrated that

he was aware that he had "attained"; he even at one

point set out to describe the complete experience to

his devotees, but when he attempted to explain what

happened after achieving the level of "ajna", he kept

slipping into samadhi, and thus was unable to complete

the description! One begins to detach from one's ego

and observe it as it goes about its worldly life, and

thus delusion is not possible. The Mother is there at

all times to prevent this happening; just as

Ramakrishna, possessed by Kali, spun about and slapped

Rani Rasmani's face right in the middle of puja to

correct her for her thinking about worldly matters at

that moment instead of concentrating on the worship,

the Mother stands ready to prevent her faithful

devotee from slipping into delusion and worldliness at

all times. But this happens only after one has proven

to the Mother that one wants Her to the exclusion of

all else!

################################################

>

> In Tripura Rahasya : Parasurama remarked about Sage

> Samvarta, "His

> greatness was like red hot coal hidden in embers.

> Every inch of his

> body filled one with exhilaration so that I have a

> refreshing

> feeling in his mere proximity."

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Lili Masamura wrote: I disagree; Ramakrishna certainly demonstrated

that he was aware that he had "attained"; he even at one point set

out to describe the complete experience to his devotees, but when he

attempted to explain what happened after achieving the level

of "ajna", he kept slipping into samadhi, and thus was unable to

complete the description! One begins to detach from one's ego and

observe it as it goes about its worldly life, and thus delusion is

not possible.

 

 

yes Lili you have just said it : One begins to detach from one's

ego ... Did Ramakrishna Or Amritanandamata publicly tell others :

hey! I am the realise one. I am the enlightened one! They show it by

their actions. That is what I am saying all the time : your action

is the prove of your state of being.

[Guest guest]

Well, in case you hadn't noticed, we are ONLINE here,

and it is hard to demonstrate by any "action" OTHER

than words, when nobody can SEE anyone else! These are

circumstances that Ramakrishna and all the other great

saints did not have to contend with! The very best way

to test anyone making such grandiose claims is to ask

pertinent questions, rather than jumping feet first

into ridicule and denigration. Surely you must have

tested your own guru first before you sat at his feet?

If not, well, then, you get the guru you deserve! I am

prepared to share information; in fact I have been

doing this all along. I have even invited people to

talk to me offlist if they wish. I have made no secret

of the methods, but nobody is remotely interested in

further information..one would think people who

express so much interest in attainment would at least

be mildly curious, but no, not at all. This simply

demonstrates the lack of sincere desire for God which

is, of course, the mark of the Kali Yuga.

Lilith M.

--- NMadasamy <nmadasamy

wrote:

>

> Lili Masamura wrote: I disagree; Ramakrishna

> certainly demonstrated

> that he was aware that he had "attained"; he even at

> one point set

> out to describe the complete experience to his

> devotees, but when he

> attempted to explain what happened after achieving

> the level

> of "ajna", he kept slipping into samadhi, and thus

> was unable to

> complete the description! One begins to detach from

> one's ego and

> observe it as it goes about its worldly life, and

> thus delusion is

> not possible.

>

>

> yes Lili you have just said it : One begins to

> detach from one's

> ego ... Did Ramakrishna Or Amritanandamata publicly

> tell others :

> hey! I am the realise one. I am the enlightened one!

> They show it by

> their actions. That is what I am saying all the time

> : your action

> is the prove of your state of being.

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.

http://info.mail./mail_250

[Guest guest]

Lili Masamura wrote: Well, in case you hadn't noticed, we are ONLINE

here, and it is hard to demonstrate by any "action" OTHER than

words, when nobody can SEE anyone else! These are circumstances that

Ramakrishna and all the other great saints did not have to contend

with! ..

 

 

 

Lili! Lili! My dear darling Lili. Whatever you say. Hey! if you want

to consider yourself as one of the realized one, so let it be. Gosh!

How fortunate we are in Shakti Sadhana. Lets all drink to that !!!!

[Guest guest]

Yes, and we can eat some meat to celebrate, too

 

, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...>

wrote:

>

> Lili Masamura wrote: Well, in case you hadn't noticed, we are

ONLINE

> here, and it is hard to demonstrate by any "action" OTHER than

> words, when nobody can SEE anyone else! These are circumstances

that

> Ramakrishna and all the other great saints did not have to contend

> with! ..

>

>

>

> Lili! Lili! My dear darling Lili. Whatever you say. Hey! if you

want

> to consider yourself as one of the realized one, so let it be.

Gosh!

> How fortunate we are in Shakti Sadhana. Lets all drink to that !!!!

[Guest guest]

One of the signs of God-realization is joy.

There is absolutely no hesitancy in such a person,

who is like an ocean in joyous waves.

But deep beneath the surface,

there is profound silence and peace.

 

---Sri Ramakrishna

 

 

These are from Rumi, (I'm pretty sure, some of it may be Hafiz...):

 

If a torrent of love for spirit has gone by,

where is the streambed? Why are you sour?

 

 

Don't be absorbed in the waterwheel's motion

Turn your gaze to the river

.... there are several signs in eyes that see all the way to the ocean.

Bewilderment is one.

Those who look out to sea become the sea,

and they can't speak about that.

On the beach there's desire-singing and rage-ranting,

the elaborate language-dance of personality,

but in the waves and underneath

there's no volition, no hypocrisy,

just love forming and unfolding...

 

 

And this from China, no attribution:

 

Like a stream of music flowing throughout the whole being.

 

 

the Book of the Yellow Court:

 

The great Tao plays! Wonderful peace! Wonderful peace!

Concentrate to the utmost all your willpower

in order to contemplate the true One of the Tao...

 

 

 

And from Lao Tze:

 

I let my heart revel

where things had their beginning.

 

 

 

Dark! Dark! Mystery! Mystery!

In the center there are Essences, most true Essences.

 

---Hun-Yuan Huang-Di Sheng-Zhi

 

M

--

Max Dashu

Suppressed Histories Archives

Global Women's History

http://www.suppressedhistories.net

[Guest guest]

Mary Ann wrote: Yes, and we can eat some meat to celebrate, too

 

 

hahhaaaa Mary Ann. No wonder people are running away from us. We

sound like cannibals. What do you like to eat? MEAT.

 

Maybe time to tell others : Please save yourself from us eh!

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Nora, I knew you would eventually understand. Have one on me.

 

Lilith M.

 

--- NMadasamy <nmadasamy

wrote:

>

> Lili! Lili! My dear darling Lili. Whatever you say. Hey! if you want to

> consider yourself as one of the realized one, so let it be. Gosh!

> How fortunate we are in Shakti Sadhana. Lets all drink to that !!!!

>

> Lili Masamura wrote: Well, in case you hadn't

> noticed, we are ONLINE

> here, and it is hard to demonstrate by any "action"

> OTHER than

> words, when nobody can SEE anyone else! These are

> circumstances that

> Ramakrishna and all the other great saints did not

> have to contend

> with! ..

[Guest guest]

Don't forget the fish, parched grain and the "making

whoopee" as well! Might as well cover all bases!

Lilith M.

--- Mary Ann <buttercookie61 wrote:

>

>

> Yes, and we can eat some meat to celebrate, too

>

> , "NMadasamy"

> <nmadasamy@s...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Lili Masamura wrote: Well, in case you hadn't

> noticed, we are

> ONLINE

> > here, and it is hard to demonstrate by any

> "action" OTHER than

> > words, when nobody can SEE anyone else! These are

> circumstances

> that

> > Ramakrishna and all the other great saints did not

> have to contend

> > with! ..

> >

> >

> >

> > Lili! Lili! My dear darling Lili. Whatever you

> say. Hey! if you

> want

> > to consider yourself as one of the realized one,

> so let it be.

> Gosh!

> > How fortunate we are in Shakti Sadhana. Lets all

> drink to that !!!!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mail - You care about security. So do we.

 

[Guest guest]

"One of the signs of God-realization is joy."

 

All this is true, of course. But the essential personality remains as well.

Realized people, despite being filled with joy, do not necessarily behave

towards others in a "saintly" fashion. The great Ma Tara devotee and saint

Bamakhepa ("Crazy saint") would behave in antisocial ways, throwing shit at

people, insulting and verbally abusing them, never wore clothes, and smoked his

chillum (hashish pipe) incessantly, while wandering around in the cremation

ground where he lived all his life. One of Ammaji's devotees, in "Women Saints

of India" describes encountering an avadhuta who merely sat in a corner, and

would spit on and insult people who came for his darshan. Ammaji would sit there

with him while he would spit on her, and then remark after they left, "He's

really in the Supreme state!", and the devotees would all chorus, "Oh! If that's

the "supreme state" I don't want anything to do with it!", and Mother would

respond, "You cannot understand until you yourself have realized, why he is like

that!"

 

Ammaji herself went through the avadhut state, wandering alone around in the

jungle, eating any old thing she was given or able to find, and sitting

motionless or dancing in the torrential monsoon rains for hours. Ramakrishna

would wander about naked, oblivious to his condition, or indeed, to anything

else, when he was going through the early part of his samadhi. So, hanging on to

the illusion that "realization" always transforms one into a physical embodiment

of "sweetness and light towards all" according to popular definition will

seriously hamper one in the recognition of the "realization" of

one's own self, or of others!

 

Lilith M.

 

--- Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote:

> One of the signs of God-realization is joy.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/2005 7:02:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lars writes:

I for one wouldn't choose what appears as an idiot as my teacher.

It's a tough call isn't it!

 

I mean if a person totally manifested a type of "white light" flowery

consciousness people could call him realized, BUT

 

What if someone manifested a totally "evil" consciousness, would people say

the same things about them? Was Hitler enlightened? Of course, we would all say

NO!

 

There is something terrifying when we se the divine manifest destructively,

even recently we can see the damage done by the Tsunami and everyone wonders

why? It's easy to see the death and destruction and forget that we wouldn't be

here if it wasn't for Ma's creative aspect in the first place. Thank you Ma

Kali!

 

Well nature carries me to awestruck levels of delight and terrifies me also!

So what are the signs of a realized person? How do you judge? Would they be

full of love, or hate, or perhaps something completely other? I have never met a

realized person to that degree to answer.

 

How do I even find a Guru knowing there are so many varieties about?! I

certainly always try to follow my heart on these things, but I dont think it can

be

easily defined at all.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Lili wrote:

 

"So, hanging on to the illusion that "realization" always transforms one into a

physical embodiment of "sweetness and light towards all" according to popular

definition will seriously hamper one in the recognition of the "realization" of

one's own self, or of others!"

 

 

But how do we know that the persons you refered to are realized and not

suffering from psychic illness?

 

I for one wouldn't choose what appears as an idiot as my teacher.

 

 

Lars

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

swastik108 wrote:

 

"So what are the signs of a realized person? How do you judge? Would they be

full of love, or hate, or perhaps something completely other? I have never met a

realized person to that degree to answer."

 

The best book I have read describing Self-realization or Enlightment is The

Three Pillars of Zen: Teaching, Practice, and Enlightenment by Philip Kapleau

Roshi.

 

Reda more:

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385260938/ref=ase_wwwciolekcomasia/103-4\

454492-4431059

 

Whne you read it it's almost so you get a foot in the state of Enlightment.

 

In his "Bible" about yoga Feuerstein describes enlighted persons who behave odd

showing that they are not any longer slave to cultural values.

 

But that is one thing, behaving like a complete idiot another.

 

Regards

 

Lars

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

swastik108 wrote: "So what are the signs of a realized person? How

do you judge? Would they be full of love, or hate, or perhaps

something completely other? I have never met a realized person to

that degree to answer."

 

 

In Tripura Rahasya, Parasurama commented about Sage Samvarta.

"I have noticed that Samvarta, the Lord, is quite happy being

completely free from any sense of obligation to act and its

disastrous results. He seems to laugh at the ways of the world, to

stride unconcerned up the road of fearlessness, like a majestic

elephant refreshing itself in a lake of melted snow when the

surrounding forest is on fire. I found him absolutely free from any

sense of obligation and at the same time perfectly happy in his

realization of Eternal Being."

[Guest guest]

NMadasamy wrote:

 

"I have noticed that Samvarta, the Lord, is quite happy being

completely free from any sense of obligation to act and its

disastrous results. He seems to laugh at the ways of the world, to

stride unconcerned up the road of fearlessness, like a majestic

elephant refreshing itself in a lake of melted snow when the

surrounding forest is on fire. I found him absolutely free from any

sense of obligation and at the same time perfectly happy in his

realization of Eternal Being."

 

 

Personally I wouldn't want to be free from my obligations to the world, the

life, to all living beings.

 

Regards

 

Lars

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

NMadasamy wrote and excerpt from the TR "I have noticed that

Samvarta, the Lord, is quite happy being completely free from any

sense of obligation to act and its disastrous results. He seems to

laugh at the ways of the world, to stride unconcerned up the road of

fearlessness, like a majestic elephant refreshing itself in a lake

of melted snow when the surrounding forest is on fire. I found him

absolutely free from any sense of obligation and at the same time

perfectly happy in his realization of Eternal Being."

 

Lars Hedström wrote: Personally I wouldn't want to be free from my

obligations to the world, the life, to all living beings.

 

You know what, the more you said you wouldn't want to be be free

from your obligations, the more DEVI will make you. If its your

destiny, can you prevent it. YOu can say : I am in control of my

action, but the reality is that destiny will decides it. How often

have I seen. I remember once a man told me" no! no! my son will not

marry no other but indian girl" but eventually his son did marry a

nonindian. Somebody said once to me : nope! I will never do such a

thing, but atlas! he actually did it. When I asked him : how come, I

thought you said, you will not do it. His response is : what to do,

MA wants me to. Haaaaa

 

That is why Lalitha is called the Playful one. She likes to play

with you. You are in a shakti group, and you just said it. We shall

see what she is capable of doing.

[Guest guest]

Dear Lili:

 

Can you direct me to a source material that discusses Amma's time

spent on a beach motionless/speechless? I read about it online, but

haven't found any further details, like how long she spent in that

state, what she had to say about it later, etc.

 

Gee, someone complained about being spat on and having excrement

thrown at them? People these days just want to be spoonfed spiritual

pablum! :-P The avadhoot you mention sounds like an upset child, and

you are right, it is important to be able to realize such things in

others and self to keep perspective.

 

I read that Jesus cursed a fig tree, causing it to die because it

bore no fruit when he was hungry, though it was not the time of year

for figs to be produced. That tree was withered by the Master just

for being there in its natural state. Reminds me of Donald Trump

saying he nearly fired a great employee for asking him for a raise

when The Donald was having a bad day. He mentioned that it is wise

for people to recognize what is going on around them and with others

before stepping into the fray. That advice is sage, and I have heard

it from Amma, as well. Even so, I saw Trump as a big baby who likes

to make others wrong instead of recognizing when he himself needs to

get some perspective.

 

Mary Ann

 

 

, Lili Masamura

<sephirah5> wrote:

>

> "One of the signs of God-realization is joy."

>

> All this is true, of course. But the essential personality remains

as well. Realized people, despite being filled with joy, do not

necessarily behave towards others in a "saintly" fashion. The great

Ma Tara devotee and saint Bamakhepa ("Crazy saint") would behave in

antisocial ways, throwing shit at people, insulting and verbally

abusing them, never wore clothes, and smoked his chillum (hashish

pipe) incessantly, while wandering around in the cremation ground

where he lived all his life. One of Ammaji's devotees, in "Women

Saints of India" describes encountering an avadhuta who merely sat

in a corner, and would spit on and insult people who came for his

darshan. Ammaji would sit there with him while he would spit on her,

and then remark after they left, "He's really in the Supreme

state!", and the devotees would all chorus, "Oh! If that's

the "supreme state" I don't want anything to do with it!", and

Mother would respond, "You cannot understand until you yourself have

realized, why he is like that!"

>

> Ammaji herself went through the avadhut state, wandering alone

around in the jungle, eating any old thing she was given or able to

find, and sitting motionless or dancing in the torrential monsoon

rains for hours. Ramakrishna would wander about naked, oblivious to

his condition, or indeed, to anything else, when he was going

through the early part of his samadhi. So, hanging on to the

illusion that "realization" always transforms one into a physical

embodiment of "sweetness and light towards all" according to popular

definition will seriously hamper one in the recognition of

the "realization" of

> one's own self, or of others!

>

> Lilith M.

>

> --- Max Dashu <maxdashu@l...> wrote:

>

> > One of the signs of God-realization is joy.

[Guest guest]

I love the avadhutas. When they spit on someone, it is prasad. When

they strike a blow, it takes away negative karma, or lifts awareness

in some way. However, I've never heard of one who was concerned to

protest that others did not recognize their enlightenment, accept

their teachings, or for that matter, gave a damn what anyone else

thinks of them. Quite the opposite.

>So, hanging on to the illusion that "realization" always transforms

>one into a physical embodiment of "sweetness and light towards all"

>according to popular definition will seriously hamper one in the

>recognition of the "realization" of

>one's own self, or of others!

 

Illusion or not, paradoxical behavior notwithstanding, anyone merged

with the Divine Source is acting out of love. It may not seem like

it, but cannot be otherwise.

 

Max

 

--

Max Dashu

Suppressed Histories Archives

Global Women's History

http://www.suppressedhistories.net

 

 

[Guest guest]

This reminds me of BKS Iyengar claiming his adjustments during hatha

yoga, which sound and look like body blows, are healing, similar to

acupuncture or acupressure.

 

It also makes me think of The Autobiography of a Yogi in which there

is a story about a woman who, out of upset with her mother in law,

stops eating, and never again needs to eat. God/dess or Self

Realization or Universal Consciousness or whatever it is that we tap

into that transforms us, it is not necessary for anyone else to

recognize our spittle or excrement, body blows, or profanity, as

divine, nor to argue or defend such things, IMHO.

 

Mary Ann

 

 

, Max Dashu <maxdashu@l...>

wrote:

> I love the avadhutas. When they spit on someone, it is prasad.

When

> they strike a blow, it takes away negative karma, or lifts

awareness

> in some way. However, I've never heard of one who was concerned to

> protest that others did not recognize their enlightenment, accept

> their teachings, or for that matter, gave a damn what anyone else

> thinks of them. Quite the opposite.

>

> >So, hanging on to the illusion that "realization" always

transforms

> >one into a physical embodiment of "sweetness and light towards

all"

> >according to popular definition will seriously hamper one in the

> >recognition of the "realization" of

> >one's own self, or of others!

>

> Illusion or not, paradoxical behavior notwithstanding, anyone

merged

> with the Divine Source is acting out of love. It may not seem like

> it, but cannot be otherwise.

>

> Max

>

> --

> Max Dashu

> Suppressed Histories Archives

> Global Women's History

> http://www.suppressedhistories.net

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, if they were meant to be your teacher, you would

be inexplicably drawn to them in spite of your

prejudices,or given some other indication that this is

what was intended. Signs and indications of such

things are always given, and at a certain point, one

has to trust in one's intuition! Narendra

(Vivekananda) was not initially attracted to

Ramakrishna because he saw him at first as a

representative of the "old" ways that he felt were

holding India back, but it was not long before he was

brought round to realization that Ramakrishna was in

fact his guru! And if you fail to connect, then other

opportunities will later arise, if one is truly ready.

If one is truly obstinate, however, then you may have

to wait a whole lifetime or two in order to get

another opportunity!

Lilith M.

--- Lars Hedström <lars wrote:

>

> Lili wrote:

>

> "So, hanging on to the illusion that "realization"

> always transforms one into a physical embodiment of

> "sweetness and light towards all" according to

> popular definition will seriously hamper one in the

> recognition of the "realization" of

> one's own self, or of others!"

>

>

> But how do we know that the persons you refered to

> are realized and not suffering from psychic illness?

>

> I for one wouldn't choose what appears as an idiot

> as my teacher.

>

>

> Lars

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

All your favorites on one personal page – Try My

 

[Guest guest]

What, you mean you want to carry your karmic burden

forever? We are meant to evolve PAST the need for

physical bodies...wanting to stay stuck here in the

physical realm is spiritual stagnation! If you mean,

however, that you wish to be of service to humanity,

and to hang around as a bodhisattva, rather than be

dissolved in the Infinite, well, when you get to a

certain point of spiritual development, you will be

given the choice of one option or the other.

Lilith M.

 

--- Lars Hedström <lars wrote:

> Personally I wouldn't want to be free from my

> obligations to the world, the life, to all living

> beings.

>

> Regards

>

> Lars

[Guest guest]

God, yes, tell me about it...I can no longer count

the number of times I have said "I will NEVER...." and

then had to eat my words and do that very

thing...sometimes within the week! So now I just say,

"The only way I will EVER do (whatever it is) is if

God wants me to!" That works much better!

Lilith M.

 

 

--- NMadasamy <nmadasamy

wrote:

> You know what, the more you said you wouldn't want

> to be be free

> from your obligations, the more DEVI will make you.

> If its your

> destiny, can you prevent it. YOu can say : I am in

> control of my

> action, but the reality is that destiny will decides

> it. How often

> have I seen. I remember once a man told me" no! no!

> my son will not

> marry no other but indian girl" but eventually his

> son did marry a

> nonindian. Somebody said once to me : nope! I will

> never do such a

> thing, but atlas! he actually did it. When I asked

> him : how come, I

> thought you said, you will not do it. His response

> is : what to do,

> MA wants me to. Haaaaa

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%