Justin

And it is beyond Justin's understanding also, otherwise if it was so easy, then how would it be glorious?

beggar swamin, you and I follow the same glorious tradition. So why break the faith

 

which place do you belong to?

how is this helpful to you? This shows a weakness that you cannot discuss with another without knowing a members whereabouts. If I were to ask you these questions will you answer? I bet NO.

 

Which place in India are you from?

What is your full real name as in your passport?

What is your date of birth?

 

 

you lack in common understanding capabilities . im sorry but your method forced me to say this.

I am sorry but you are falling for your feel good theory you were preaching before

 

 

not tolerating someone who promotes intolerance cannot be intolerance atall . just like asking something from god is not good in sadhana but asking bhakti is not bad at all . it does not amount to asking something in return ( though theoritically it is indeed about asking bhakti in return) .

Now you are changing your color again

 

 

no one is criminal here . they might be termed as deceptors. but then again how do you determine one ?

I do not know if any criminals are roaming in this forum. Possibly. But I was talking about the actual criminals who commit bad deeds.

 

YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is !!!!!!!!! thats what im saying . but criticisn someone for regularly criticising others cannot be criticism proper .just as asking for bhakti from god is not like asking something in return in strict sense of term .

 

hope you understand...........

No. But never mind.

 

 

what path do you follow !????!!! im curious to know the origin of such entertaining intelligence .

how will this info be of help to you? The glorious path and sampradaya I follow is beyond your understanding.

 

Just like Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur's conception, an acarya could come along in Gaudiya Saraswat line and say,

Gaudiya saraswat! Where did saraswat come from? Are they undergoing a name change?

 

 

Football has its rules and you guys have crossed the lines, and committed personal fouls for which the Big Commissioner in the Sky will lay out heavy fines.

Did the commissioner tell that you personally? I still haven't paid my parking tickets. Can I use your influence to waive them?

 

Besides Raghu's criticisms, what is he proposing?

He wants you to go play football.

 

Do you intend every post to propose something? Some grand proposal for building a temple or are you looking for a proposal of a $800 billion bailout plan to be drawn here. Discussion forums are simply a method of exhanging opinions. You give yours and others give theirs.

I usually do not like to say 'I told you so'. But someone please objectively compare my answers to SYs. Ain't my answers a tad better?

SY, can you please enter text through the keyboard and spare us the long stuff. I wonder if you ever read such lenghty articles before pasting them from websites.

 

Anyway I took the pain to read and did not find any answers to specific questions that Raghu asked. And you call him a sudra. It is clear that you think sudra is an insult. How can you insult this varna? The gaudiya acharyas will not be pleased by this bad behavior which is unfit to be a vaishnva.

i work of a company where my manager is a brahmin. He has given lot of abroad offers to brahmins only, he has given promotions and more salary hike to brahmins only. if any bodys name ends with iyer and iyengar he will be happy to meet him and do all the favours.

Such favoritism is everywhere. It is not like brahamanas are the culprits everywhere and everytime. Talk to your HR and let them know. Make sure you do not talk to another Iyer or Iyengar about this

I think I can give you better answers than anyone here heh heh

 

 

1) The disciples of Prabhupada who are currently gurus - are they all brahmins? Yes or no?

There is a new varna in town. "Vaishnavas". They are vaishnavas. A vaishnava is higher than a brahamana.

 

 

2) The disciples of Prabhupada who were formerly gurus but then fell down - were they brahmins? Yes or No?

They were not vaishnavas.

 

 

3) If the disciples of Prabhupada who fell down were not gurus, then why did Prabhupada initiate them as brahmins? Did he (a) do so knowing that they were not brahmins, or (b) do so because he did not know if they were brahmins or not?

Krsna told him to initiate them. He does everything as per Krsna's order. It wasn't Prabhupada's fault.

 

 

4a) If the answer to question (3) is choice (a), then how do you rationalize giving initiations to a non-brahmin when you claim that one is only a brahmin based on conduct/qualification?

Did I mention before that the initiation was given to vaishnavas? No. Okay. It was right at the time because they were behaving as vaishnavas. Now times have changed and they changed. This is a slight digression. But this is done because it is the right thing to do.

 

 

4b) If the answer to question (3) is choice (b), then when even Prabhupada (whom you no doubt consider the topmost guru) could mistakenly identify someone as a brahmin, then how are other gurus supposed to correctly identify brahmins prior to initiation?

I will tell this one more time. It is the vaishnavas that are identified. Not brahamanas.

 

Ha ha! Checkmate! Butt kicked! Mouth shut!

yeah my mouth is shut. Shut because beggar swamin's answer did make some sense. If you insist I will comment here. Do you want me to? Well here it is. The question was why Prabhupada digressed from Baladeva. beggar swamin said Gaudiyas are within their definition. That is the right answer! They are within their bounds. Digressions are their thing. A tradition. That is the final answer.

beggar swamin, I am honoured by your presence.

beggar swamin, I am waiting for your humble response?

 

We are Vaisnavas that perform our work in varna and asrama general divisions, with Krsna as central recipient. As explained in Bhagavad Gita, Who gives a .. who is in what varna? Just outsiders!!!! Prabhupada told us that do to the rejection of the sudra class in India, those rejected then sought shelter in Islam, people like you drove them away.

Hey, tell the muslims they are shudras and you will get their version of your varna. Believe me it will not be anything close to the worst nightmare

 

 

As far as sudras studying scriptures? Hell, yes as much as he is capable, this is the Kali yuga, we are not here to follow perfect varna and asrama as applies to the Satya yuga. No, only as explained by our Guru!

Not according to your own Baladeva. Shudras are exempt from studying scriptures. Now Prabhupada has digressed from his own sampradaya!?

 

I wouldn't in a million years enlighten you as to the answer to that question because it would do anything but enlighten you, but simply empower you to use that tidbit to twist it to your own purposes, and with your intellectual acuity you might just approximate the process enough to fool a few people and do some damage. Figure it out for your self O' Mighty Kaiser of Schmaiser. And then bugger off, please.

 

since when did you have answers to any of these highly piercing questions ol' dandy boy!?

 

Despite all the deviations and oppositions, the Gaudiya Sampradaya is growing and growing, and as predicted, it'll flood the entire world.

 

The whole world will be full of only brahamanas then. Thats scary dude

 

Someone please enlighten me.

 

Why are the Hare Krishnas obsessing about the varna-system? Why is it important for them to become Brahmanas?

 

I fail to get it. Since the Hare Krishna's goal is Krishna, why this deep-seeded need to become a Brahmana? I don't see the link.

 

It looks like they believe only Brahmanas are eligible for Krishna, which I find to be a very weird position for an international organization, not to mention lack of scriptural support for such a position.

 

Cheers

 

These are super questions. I doubt whether you will find a legitimate answer from the gaudiyas.

 

If anyone proposes that supposed Vaisnavas act in a humble manner according to the dictates of their teachers, then that person: 1) can be construed as a hypocrite. And: 2) can be construed as sanctimonious person who is taking a holier-than-thou attitude.

If one is a sincere seeker of the truth, no matter their affiliation, they must take a humble position. And although I am writing this I am trying to somehow look at my own position, and pray that I do not cause anyone to lose faith in Sri Bhagavan in any form that one is attracted. We may have difficulty in controlling our senses and we may have a very mundane side of our personality, but if we are to represent a postion of saintly, predecessor acaryas in any Vaisnava line then we are duty bound to not misrepresent them by taking an offensive and argumentative approach.

no no no no no. You are not taking a humble position. Don't let my praise of holier than thou deceive you. What you are doing is criticising me in the guise of a beggar. You are actually a proud person who is confused about religion and needlessly arguing with me.

If you think I am taking a hard stance you should meet one of my gurus who I had a chance to meet with recently. He says that a soul can only get moksha by following Ramanuja sampradaya. Every soul on earth will get moksha as they will be born as a Sri Vaishnava and ultimately attain the lotus feet. He says everyone else other than Sri Vaishnavas have not discovered the nectar and will never attain the feet. He is actually very learned person. Is he a hypocrite and insincere?

 

I was a follower of Sri Vaishnavism until I read Prabhupada's books.

 

Now I'm a follower of Gaudiya Vaishnava. Why?

 

Because Krishna has blessed them to spread their influence far and wide, and the Maha-Mantra works!

 

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna

Krsna Krsna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama

Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

Unfortunately you have to be aparadha free to taste the nectar.

 

Haribol

 

I had a soft corner for gaudiyas although I was a Sri Vaishnava. Then I was disillusioned with gaudiyas. Why? Because they misuse and abuse the very traditions they have copied all their stuff from.

 

Emperumanar Thiruvadikale Saranam!

 

Is Justin a sincere seeker of truth or a person who derives pleasure in insulting others?

Justin is a seeker of the truth. Therefore he does not hesitate to say a unicorn does not exist. If you call that insulting maybe you need to investigate your inner motive and find out if you really are a sincere seeker of the truth. Don't you have a swamin's guidance that you should not prevent another vaishnava from doing his duty? Aren't you using hypocrisy and putting silly questions to others demonstrating that you are holier-than-thou? Please ask these penetrating questions to yourself and see if you are sincere in the first place before you speak against others.

 

This Just in! The most recent Troll to crawl into this forum has exclaimed...

I crawled into this forum many moons ago. You probably was hiding in the sty and did not notice.

 

 

(Fabricated because HE SAYS SO)

 

(According to the great Justinius who presents no evidence.)

 

( Take his word for it)

What evidence is required to reject a false story. No one has provided evidence that a unicorn does not exist. There are many other stories in the net that belittles Sri Ramanuja just to elevate Chaitanya. What evidence do you need that fabricated stories are not true?

 

 

 

(OOOOOHHHH, a direct order from on high. You best listen up "BUB" when the great Justinius Blows hard to Bloviate. But now we see the real truth. The self-proclaimed expert on propriety of Guru parampara has proclaimed the entire Gaudiya branch of Lord Brahma's Sampradaya to be OUT OF ORDER, imaginatively fabricated their philosophy and are plagiarists.

because Brahma sampradaya, Laxmi sampradaya, shiva sampradaya are fabrications of Gaudiyas. Sri Ramanuja has learnt from Bhagavan and we have got our own disciple succession which is untainted by Gaudiyas. Thank God for that!

 

 

Because he can't stand the idea of Love of God being offered to someone who was not born in a strict Brahmin caste family. The ritual confers the inclination and ability to know and love the Supreme Being, for all others are out of Luck.

Where did I mention caste here! A troll like me does not have a caste. Similarly even-toed ungulates should be put in place where they belong.

 

Just by aligning with a sampradaya will hardly suffice. On must practice the sadhana under the guidance of a real guru and then search for the truth of the sadhana from within and without. Anyone who does that in any Vaisnava sampradaya should genuinely be respected. Then their are various kinds of hypocrisy that we are all guilty of to various degrees. Which kind is your favorite?

beggar swamin, I do not have a guru. Where do I find one? My favorite hypocrisy is to have just one degree of separation and yet be that One. Are you a Sri Vaishnava?

 

Ramanuja dasan.

 

Justin has just made my ignore list. Each lifetime comes with a limited amount of time. Not enough of it to waste on silly talk.

Good for you sport. Ignorance is bliss.

Enlightened beggar guru, I still do not understand what you are talking. Your inner vision has supposedly detected and pierced my inner nature. I'd like to understand in detail the wisdom you poured in the post. Do you call pointing out flaws as breaking faith? What do you mean by the term faith breaking? Is shallowness and underdevelopedness only visible in my faith? Are Gaudiyas the most sublime and polite faith on earth? Please explain. I am waiting to be corrected.

 

If that example is supposed to be analagous to GV then you certainly are an offensive person with no actual spiritual vision.

It takes one to know one

 

The point is that many would believe that the Sri Vaishnavas are spreading false stories about reality. This group would include advaitans or monists, all forms of Buddhists, and certainly those in the Abramahamic religions. I don't believe that atheists or Marxist Leninists and especially Maoists would agree either. Every tradition that has concepts of a world or dimensions beyond what we can see with our fleshy eyes cannot prove these things in a scientific laboratory under the electron microscope. If we start looking further into Sri Vaisnavism we will find things that just don't add up from that perspective. So get out of that perspective and stop adding. You're not helping anybody, including yourself.

What the heck are you talking? what perspective? what electron microsocope? Did you read my posts. Am I talking about maoists or marxists? I said the Gaudiyas are spreading false stories about Sri Vaishnavas. Not the opposite way as you put it. Should I put the entire post in CAPS for you in case you missed the point.

 

Ultimately for those without vijnana, everything remains an issue of faith. Go tell the Christians that Shriman Narayana is a bonafide manifestation of God and they will tell you that such an idea is a fairy tale concocted by the devil himself. See if you can get the Islamisists to drink that cocktail, also.

listen bud...I do not care for a sampradaya that has no proper guru parampara. The order gives it the authenticity and appreciation. If I were to start a school putting whiskey, rats poison, and bloody mary and sell that concoction, people will want to know where the ingredients came from. If I tell them to take it as a matter of faith then I am encouraging blind belief and possibly no one will buy my stuff. If I tell them the truth of those ingredients and the trans fats it contains, I may get more respect but few customers. If I lie to them saying the ingredients are milk, honey and yoghurt, then I get a huge following. Now I know that christians and islamists will never buy my concoction. So I identify a segment who will fall for the scam. I will tell them that they can attain a higher status by drinking my concoction.

WoW! what a scam. Do these swamijis know that their letters are all making the rounds in the internet!