thehat

This is also from satsvarupa's diary;

March 30, 6:30 A.M.

Carrying the body around, piss it, clean it, dress it, struggle to put the wristwatch on, the stockings over cracked toenails, huffing and puffing with a fast-beating heart. Waking the deities, take them out of their beds, wash your eyeglasses—is it time for japa ? Where is your dissatisfied mind going?

At least he's being honest.. Who else feels like this?

I do sometimes. But isn't this Satsvarupa suppose to be a guru or something? Someone who's suppose to enlighten devotees in their service?

Agasura demon maybe?

From my understanding in the Gaudiya Matha there is no limit to how much we should chant nor is there any obligation on how much we should chant. However the ideal number of rounds to chant is 64 as people have already said.

However, as long as we are chanting some number that is good. Some people chant 30 rounds, some chant 20, and some chant 16. Everyone has their own base number of rounds though, for example my friend's base number is 16 rounds but there are days when he spends a few hours chanting and so will complete 50 odd rounds. Of course there are also many who carry around with them their japa bags always and so are constantly chanting.

It is hard in the Gaudiya Math in the sense that it requires a lot of self- motivation, it is certainly not an ideal place for lazy persons. But I guess you could get trained up there eventually. Iskcon is nice in the sense that everyone must complete their daily duties, and thus people are steady in their sadhana. Though personally however, I prefer the matha.

LOL @ "Gurukripa was using some very risky fundraising practices" ...that is a true 'euphemism'

 

... another example of the 'end justifies the means' doctrine imported from Talmud...

Hey what were these street scams all about? Are there any gurus within Iskcon today that can be trusted and are legit?

I thought srila gour govinda maharaja was very good.

By now many of you may have heard of Bill Maher's documentary entitled "Religulous". Click here for info

Though I have not personally seen it yet, and am unable to watch it at present due to my bandwith limitations, I share with you links to download the film in dvdrip format for yourselves to check out.

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

Link 4

Link 5

Or if you have a rapidshare account you may prefer these:

Religulous [2008] DVDRip XviD - SAPHiRE

http://rapidshare.com190639351/Religulous.DVDRip.XviD.SAPHiRE.part1.rar

http://rapidshare.com190639559/Religulous.DVDRip.XviD.SAPHiRE.part2.rar

http://rapidshare.com190639860/Religulous.DVDRip.XviD.SAPHiRE.part3.rar

http://rapidshare.com190640213/Religulous.DVDRip.XviD.SAPHiRE.part4.rar

http://rapidshare.com190640501/Religulous.DVDRip.XviD.SAPHiRE.part5.rar

http://rapidshare.com190640850/Religulous.DVDRip.XviD.SAPHiRE.part6.rar

http://rapidshare.com190641191/Religulous.DVDRip.XviD.SAPHiRE.part7.rar

http://rapidshare.com190641158/Religulous.DVDRip.XviD.SAPHiRE.part8.rar

Anyway, if you do see this film please let me know how it is. I understand it is an atheistic documentary, but regardless I'm curious to know what their arguments against religions are.

LOL! Richard DORKins. Such fools.

“The posters will encourage people to

consider the most important question we will ever face in our lives.” - I wonder what is that most important question atheists will face in their lives.

These people work for Hiranyakasipu. We side with Prahlada.

Yip this is a terrible story to read in the news though, however it totally affirms the prescence of Kali Yuga.

"Humanists believe people are responsible for their own destiny and reject the notion of a supernatural force or God." - What a silly belief. If they were truly responsible for their own destiny they could have chosen for themselves which family they'd be born in, the amount of wealth they are to possess, how long they would live etc.

Of course all these things the Lord is actually responsible for, not the humanists. These people are fools

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24797483-421,00.html

Students to be taught there's no God

AAP

December 14, 2008 01:17am

<!-- // END article-title ************************************** --> <!-- // story-tools ************************************** --> <!-- // END story-tools ************************************** --> <!-- // END article-header ************************************** --> <!-- // article-body ************************************** --> <!-- // article intro ************************************** -->

VICTORIAN state primary school students will soon be able to take religious education classes which teach there is no evidence God exists.

<!-- // END article intro ************************************** --> <!-- // article corpus ************************************** --> The Humanist Society of Victoria has developed a curriculum for primary pupils that the state government accreditation body says it intends to approve, The Sunday Age newspaper reported.

Accredited volunteers will be able to teach their philosophy in the class time allotted for religious instruction, the newspaper said.

As with lessons delivered by faith groups, parents will be able to request that their children do not participate.

"Atheistical parents will be pleased to hear that humanistic courses of ethics will soon be available in some state schools," Victorian Humanist Society president Stephen Stuart said.

The society does not consider itself to be a religious organisation and believes ethics have "no necessary connection with religion".

Humanists believe people are responsible for their own destiny and reject the notion of a supernatural force or God.

Was it Srila Prabhupada who said that the moment a sincere devotee chants the Lord`s holy names, "Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare," God`s form immediately is present in the sincere devotee`s tongue? In other words, God`s holy name is more powerful than God`s form since God will never manifest himself before his devotee without first chanting His holy names.

------

Yeah, the Lords name, fame, past times, glories, form etc are all on the absolute plane and are non different from each other. So hearing about the past times of the Lord is no different from being with the Lord.

That was a fascinating read.

Woa this topic had been dug up from 2005!

Haha, thanks.

 

Do you have to be initiated in ISKCON specifically or initiated in any lineage?

 

So many rules! I never knew how many rules there were for ISKCON members.

 

I'm guessing that marriage between a non-Gaudiya and an ISKCONi would be totally out of the question?

1. Well I can't say for certain, but it seems like the case that you have to be initiated in ISKCON specifically. To this day I haven't met any married couples in iskcon who've been initiated by a guru outside of their own ISKCON school. So i've never see an ISKCON devotee married to a Gaudiya Math or Christian devotee etc.

It seems the case that the married couples first started off in brahmachari or brahmacharini ashrams, and then eventually after some training, married persons from their own school. I haven't seen them getting married to outsiders.

2. I don't know if marriage between the two schools is completely out of the question, I can't say that. It just seems like an unspoken 'thing' the iskcon devotees abide by. But I'm only under this impression because I've never met an isckon devotee who just so happened to be married to someone who wasn't part of iskcon. Maybe there are iskcon devotees married to devotees from gaudiya math. It's just I haven't seen it, and most of the devotees in iskcon seem like they'd want to be married within the same family. It certainly be more comfortable.

Of course the central focus or basis of any relationship for a Gaudiya Vaishnava would be Krishna of course, so it seems silly that there would be restrictions on marriage between people of the same Gaudiya vaishnav background. It's not like there's discussion of marriage between a devotee an atheist. But then as dev had said in his comment

"If she/he follows 4 regulative principles and chant 16 rounds as prescribed in ISKCON then go ahead with this relation."

This might be quite an important factor for the person..

That would have to be one of the worst reasons to end a relationship in the history of forever.

 

Man: "Are you Hindu?"

 

Woman: "Yes!"

 

Man: "Me too! Are you a Vaishnava?"

 

Woman: "Yes!"

 

Man: "ME TOO! Are you a Gaudiya Vaishnava?"

 

Woman: "Yes!"

 

Man: "Me too! Wow I can't believe we have so much in common religiously.......................................

 

 

Wait... are you a member of ISKCON or Gaudiya Math?"

 

Woman: "Gaudiya Math."

 

Man: "Oh... well, even though we believe nearly the exact same thing, you're still not a part of the same sectarian group as I am. I'm going to have to end this immediately, you heretic scum of the earth."

 

 

 

Really, though, if you honestly think any relationship (let alone a marriage) should be based on such sectarian ideology, you probably shouldn't even be considering marriage at all at the moment.

Hahaha what a witty comment, but at the same time very relevant and true.

But his concern is quite genuine I think. At ISKCON, as far as ritual/practise or marriage is concerned, I've noticed that everything must be in accordance with ISKCON ideals. So if you want to get married you should marry a devotee, but a devotee within ISKCON? I may be wrong though.

And you can't marry an intiated devotee if you yourself aren't initiated, you'd have to marry a devotee who hasn't been initiated.

I'm sure many people have heard that they say at ISKCON you shouldn't really look at things outside of the ISKCON parameter, this extends to the books you read. They can't read anything besides Prabhupada's literature or their own guru.

They keep their devotees well proctected from the external world.

I had been under the impression that he was an atheist, though he did take an interest in the teachings Prabhupad was sharing. I haven't read the book "Chant and be happy" but some devotees say that John is pretty into it, but due to the influence of Yoko Ono he subsequently rejects what he otherwise would've accepted. Apparently, Yoko Ono tries hard to attack Prabhupada in that book.

Also, I found these particular quotes from lennon.

In a 1965 Interview: "Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue with that; I'm right and I will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first - rock and roll or Christianity."

"I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It's just that the translations have gone wrong."

 

If the Indian government goes against Pakistan it should be clear that the Indian government itself is part of the conspiracy. Pakistan's president Asif Ali Zardari clearly says, these are terrorists which have to eliminated. Manmohan Singh, India's president says, no, this is an attack originating from Pakistan's government. In other words, like Bush, he uses terrorism to start a war.

That's a very intersting observation. One could then further speculate over what the motive is behind the Indian government to want to create a fued with Pakistan.

Ancient Mariner did you read things along the lines of this following quote? I pulled it from a conspiracy news site.

India and China a threat to the status quo:

The Kashmiri jihadists or Pakistan have absolutely nothing to gain from this. This is madness and they are not madmen. They may not be India’s friends but they are not stark raving mad. India knows this.

India is being deliberately dragged into conflict, not by “moslem terrorists” but by a certain superpower and its whip. This superpower is on the brink of economic collapse and the main threats to its economic future are China and India. India may react to this without thinking it through, or as is politically expedient; and the Hindu Militant Party, if it wins, will decide to become the US’s policeman in the region. This would lead to conflict with moslem countries, Russia and China, - India’s markets and its oil/gas supply is then seriously compromised, its economy ruined by this, and by war and more “terrorist attacks” - and voila! There goes one competitor.

 

This is kind of off-topic, but still somewhat relevant to the main issue at hand. I remember watching a video of a comedian a while ago; the comedian suggested that rather than enforcing gun control you enforce bullet control. He said if bullets costed $5000 it could more or less eliminate a lot of killing, seeing as how the price of bullets would be too expensive to buy.

It's a pretty quirky idea, but good I think.

........ width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDC-XQG1ifo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">

How do you know they're muslim? Is Deccan Mujahideen muslim?

Forgive my ingorance please. I am genuinely curious.

Keen to hear other peoples thoughts.

Though in India there are many people walking around claiming to be a God or Supreme God, outside of India I hardly hear of a person in the news who's being proclaimed as God.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-budha13-2008nov13,0,3375791.story

The Associated Press

November 13, 2008

"RATANPUR, NEPAL -- The teenage boy revered by many as a reincarnation of Buddha sat silently in the jungle as he blessed his devotees Wednesday with a light tap on the head, which they consider the touch of the divine.

His face was still, his long hair spilled over his white robe, and he never said a word.

The followers of Ram Bahadur Bamjan, 18, believe he has been meditating without food and water since he was first spotted in the jungles of southern Nepal in 2005, when believers say he spent months without moving, sitting with his eyes closed beneath a tree.

Bamjan re-emerged this week to meet his followers, who have come by the thousands to see him in the jungles of Ratanpur, about 100 miles (160 kilometers) south of Katmandu.

"I got a chance to see God today," Bishnu Maya Khadka, a housewife, said after receiving Bamjan's blessing Wednesday. "They say he is Buddha, but for me he is just God."

Bamjan was expected to address his followers on Nov. 18 and then retreat again into the jungle for meditation, said Kamal Tamang, a Buddhist priest.

Bamjan received the pilgrims from atop a podium covered in yellow cloth and placed before a massive tree. He looked healthy and strong and showed no signs of starvation or dehydration.

Buddhism, which has about 325 million followers, mostly in Asia, teaches that every soul is reincarnated after death in another bodily form.

But several Buddhist scholars have been skeptical of the claims that Bamjan is a reincarnation of Siddhartha Gautama, who was born in southwestern Nepal roughly 2,500 years ago and became revered as the Buddha, or Enlightened One.

"Being Buddha means the last birth and the highest level that can be achieved. There can be no reincarnation of Buddha, even though Buddhists believe in life after death," said Rakesh, a Buddhist scholar in Katmandu who goes by only one name.

"Meditating without food does not prove that he is the reincarnation of Buddha," said Min Bahadur Shakya of the Nagarjuna Institute of Exact Methods, a Buddhist research center in Katmandu. "There is much study needed to be done."

Bamjan has never addressed the subject in any of his speeches.

The devotees who have flocked to visit him have fewer doubts. Colorful prayer flags fluttered and incense filled the air Wednesday as the pilgrims silently approached Bamjan, who was surrounded by a line of Buddhist monks.

"I have no doubt in my mind he is a God," said Meg Bahadur Lama, a local farmer. "He has been meditating without food and water and no human can achieve such a feat. I used to hear about such miracles in the past but now I got to see one."

Wow. That was quite interesting.

I can sympathize with her loss of sister. Though, it appears as if she is trying to see the culture/religion in the way she would like to see it rather than fully understanding the depth of it and seeing it objectively.

Of course she wouldn't be so willing to accept the statement that those so-called Brahmana's that were sanctioning such immoral actions aren't in actuality real Brahmanas. For then her whole argument against the religion/culture falls apart.

Anyway though, in all honesty I don't know much about these things happening in India. Indian men killing women in their families etc. Woman genocide etc. An idea like a brahmana killing woman seems so far fetched to me. They don't kill animals but will kill a woman. That's so crazy. But maybe it is happening like this.

I should avoid these kinds of talks, I obviously haven't seen what this lady has seen. But I do feel that her book wouldn't be the most fair representation of the religion/culture etc.

What's the connection with Deepak Chopra?

Deepak Chopra was the creator of it. And his son did the artwork for it.

And shall we boycott Deepak Chopra so that he never does anything like this again?

oh dear... i started something that wasn't intended. Let's stick to the original post shall we? Do gods (demigods, angels, etc) marry? I can't think of any, unless you count the consorts of Brahma, Visnu and Siva. Do they engage in incest? I think not. I'll look for the reference, but certainly in Mahabharata it was not considered proper for one to marry another who had a common ancestor less than 7 generations apart. (My source might be mixed up here - i'll look for it).

Very sorry Gaea! Yes devas (gods/demigods/angels etc) do marry. I can think of one example at the top of my head - Lord Indra and his wife.

I don't know about incest, this I don't think I've come across in reading so far.

There's heaps though, just can't type the names as they're hard for me to pronounce let alone spell.

Even the corpse has a mouth, ear and eyes. Can it hear/see or say? So, there is an experiencer who experiences through the sense organs. That experiencer can experience even without the sense organs ie., can hear/see/say without the physical body. The physical realm is the lower form than the astral and the causal. The realm which regulates all these three states is that supreme conciousness. These realms are downward compatible. Hence you can perceive only those species which are inferior to you. In the same way the supreme conscious can perceive all the realms of reality.

 

You did not answer the question. If God has no lips how can he talk to you? If God has no eyes how can see you?

If God has no ears how can he hear you?

I accept the point your alluding to that the living entity or soul is the being that is enjoying via the sense organs. But still you must explain why God the supreme soul is without form?

Do you accept that the soul has a spiritual form consisting of legs arms etc?

 

You say the supreme consciousness is that which is in control of this physical realm. This is I accept and am not doubting. However you must explain why this supreme consciousness is without form.

 

Nowhere in the Bhagavad Gita you can learn this. Maybe it is confusing to you and the storybooks are more convincing.

 

BG 7.24: Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme.

A bit of the purport says as follows: Those who are worshipers of demigods have been described as less intelligent persons, and here the impersonalists are similarly described. Lord Krishna in His personal form is here speaking before Arjuna, and still, due to ignorance, impersonalists argue that the Supreme Lord ultimately has no form. Yamunacarya, a great devotee of the Lord in the disciplic succession of Ramanujacarya, has written two very appropriate verses in this connection.

I don't know which Bhagavad-Gita you read? Maybe it was you who read the story book?

There is no need to be rude with snarky comments I'm not trying to fight with you.

 

Enjoyment is still undefined. Right now, it seems that sense gratification to eyes, nose etc may be your definition of enjoyment. The knowlegde of that Enjoyer/Experiencer in you is the true enjoyer and you can only satisfy that by proper spiritual knowledge. Happiness lies not outside you. But you feel it within you. Where is that you? Try and you will find out the core of all happiness.

I'm not sure what you're getting at now. You've certainly strayed from the original theme.

But if you can only satisfy the true enjoyer or the soul with spiritual knowledge, how can you do so if it is originally without form? Wouldn't the soul require some sort of ear to hear?

And doesn't the soul treat the material body as a vehicle in one sense, at least in the material world until it is in its true original form? For example, it may be that the eye may not desire to see a naked lady the soul does. But doesn't the soul fulfil this desire to see a naked lady by utilizing the material eye?

Similarly in order to feed the soul spiritual knowledge in the material world, don't we engage our material senses in that very process of acquiring the knowledge in the first place?

I understand what you are describing. Yes we are spirit soul. But it is the nature of the spirit soul to want to enjoy isn't it?

My understanding is that we are originally spirit soul encased in this material body.

Now coming back to the original theme, if God doesn't enjoy - he must be pretty damn bored wherever He is. Sorry, wherever this God thing is.

Do you think this concept of enjoyment is totally lost on this God thing?

I think this God thing enjoys in his original personal form which is sac-cid-ananda.

Otherwise if this God thing has no form and is just some glowing effulgence what can it do? At most it can blind our eyes?