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Apologies...Didn't even know that it was offline for some time! Hare Krishna!!!

Theist ji, Narada Muni has only one form and that is his spiritual form. Because he is a pure unalloyed devotee of Krishna, he is spiritual. Hare Krishna!

The fall can be conceptualised by the fact that the eternally conditioned living-entities did not realize that they were with Krishna between the destruction and creation of the material world. Of course, because they did not realize they are said to be in the tatastha-region as the realisation is sometimes present and sometimes not. For a purely Krishna-conscious person regardless of whether s/he is physically present either in the material or spiritual world, s/he is always established in pure Krishna-consciousness and hence no "falldown" as such. Hope I have'nt confused.. Hare Krishna!

Hare Krishna! You have given the example of Rainbow. But, I guess you do know that the rainbow is formed when the light is refracted from the drop of water which has one colour ;-) so, when we understand the person behind the cosmic creation we know that He is singular! Hare Krishna!

As you mentioned in the earlier era the memory and spiritual consciousness was so much that the books were not required. In this era, people have to use books etc. as memory is very bad. Hare Krishna!

I thought you said that no books are required

Hello Kimflex, If you feel that there is not even 0.1 % of Srimad-Bhagavatam that you cannot believe then probably you require more time to come to the path of bhakti. But, if you have at least that 0.1% of faith, then you should continue reading and slowly everything will be revealed to you... Of course, associating with senior devotees will also help a lot! Good luck!

Xexon, Try to understand that God is unlimited and He knows about everything. Can we claim to know that we know what is happening in each and every nook and corner of the universe? Hare Krishna!

Xexon, I appreciate that you are going on the spiritual path. But, spiritual path does not end at the realisation of all inclusive Brahman realisation. It also has to offer the localised Paramaatma realisation (presence of Krishna in the heart of all the living entities) and the Bhagavan realisation (understanding that Krishna is indeed the Supreme Person). Even the person who first made the Impersonal philosophy popular, Adi Shankaraacharya, admits that "Narayana Parah Avyaktaat" that Naarayana is transcendental and cannot be known by the blunt material senses. So, please be open to Personalism! Hare Krishna!

Very well said Beggar Ji. How can a drop of ocean claim that it is the whole ocean?

Dark Warrior, Very well said. Krishna Himself confirms this when Krishna says that the people whose minds are attached to the path of impersonalism (Avyakta-aasakta chetasah) tread an exceedingly difficult path (Klesho Adhikaras Teshaam). Hare Krishna!

JustRish, The very fact that you are open to the idea of existence of a Creator means that you are a Theist. That is my honest opinion. Regarding interference of Krishna, there is not need for Him to personally interfere but because He wants to give His association to His pure devotees and increase the devotional sentiment among the Theists He Himself descends (Avatara) to the material world. That's what the famous verse "Yadaa Yadaa Hy Dharmasya..." mentions. As stated by Krishna: yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata abhyutthanam adharmasya tadatmanam srjamy aham Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself. paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam dharma-samsthapanarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after millennium. - BG 4.7-8 (http://www.asitis.com/4/7.html http://www.asitis.com/4/8.html) Hare Krishna!

Thanks a lot Dark Warrior, for giving the Sri Vaishnava point of view on this topic. It's indeed good to know this. Hare Krishna!

My dear LoveroftheBhagavata, I am not arguing at all and, I don't want to say to anyone that they are deluding themselves, as you stated.. If I say that Srila Prabhupada's rendition is authoritative it does not mean that other's coming in disciplic succession is not authoritative. There is no doubt that Ramanujacharya, Madhvacharya and Shridhara Swami - All of them are equally authoritative as well because they are in the proper disciplic succession(Evam Parampara Praaptam). As stated by Krishna: [ evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh sa kaleneha mahata yogo nastah parantapa This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost. - BG 4.2 - http://www.asitis.com/4/2.html ] Wish you all the best wishes in your spiritual path. Hare Krishna!

LoveroftheBhagavata, I do not use my conditioned mind and brain to interpret the shastra because if I do there is no meaning and use of my statements. I'm basing this on Srila Prabhupada's translation. I'm sure that He is an etenally liberated person and therefore his translation will give the original transcendental meaning.. Sure there is no need to argue. The only need is to try to understand Krishna and His devotees and get engrossed in appreciating their magnificent activities! Hare Krishna!

If you don't accept Jayadeva, no problems. But, surely you do accept Bhagavatam. So, it's stated in Bhagavatam: [ tataḥ kalau sampravṛtte sammohāya sura-dviṣām buddho nāmnāñjana-sutaḥ kīkaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati "Then, in the beginning of Kali-yuga, the Lord will appear as Lord Buddha, the son of Añjanā, in the province of Gayā, just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theist." - SB 1.3.24 - http://vedabase.net/sb/1/3/24/en ] Hare Krishna! Cheers!

JustRish, To start with I must admit that you are trying to use your intelligence to understand the Creation and also to certain extent whether there is a Supreme Creator or not. This in itself is a great attribue! Lord Buddha is an incarnation of Krishna, who appeared because during those times, the animal sacrifice was being performed just to satisfy the senses and not for the higher goal of giving the animal a human form of life. Therefore it is stated in Dashavatara-Stotra of Jayadeva Gosvami about Lord Buddha as: [ Nindasi Yajna Vidher Ahaha Shruti Jaatam Sadaya Hrdaya Darshita Pashu Ghaatam Keshava Dhrta Buddha Sharira Jaya Jagadisha Hare "O Keshava! O Lord of the universe! O Lord Hari, who have assumed the form of Buddha! All glories to You! O Buddha of compassionate heart, you decry the slaughtering of poor animals performed according to the rules of Vedic sacrifice" - Stotra 9 - http://www.salagram.net/Dasavatara-page.htm ] So, the reason Krishna as Buddha says the statements you have quoted is to mislead the people who do not want to believe in the authenticity of religious scripture stated by Krishna like the Bhagavad-Gita. It will be indeed difficult to understand the creation part, considering that we are atomic souls smaller than ten-thousands part of a tip of hair (Keshaagra Shata Bhagasya Shatadha Kalpitasya Cha). But, if try to understand what Krishna has said and accept it then there is no problem. Krishna Himself states in Bhagavad-Gita that everything is emanating from Him (Aham Sarvasya Prabhavah). Krishna says: [ Aham Sarvasya Prabhavah Mattah Sarvam Pravartate Iti Matva Bhajante Maam Budhaa Bhaava Samanvitaha "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts." - BG 10.8 - http://www.asitis.com/10/8.html] Hope this helps. Hare Krishna!

Krishna consciousness means being conscious of Krishna, as much as we can. Because Krishna is purely spiritual by being conscious of Him, we can realise our original spiritual nature as a part and parcel of Krishna. Hare Krishna!

Vikram, I understand that you want to look everything in an extremely logical way and reach a conclusion. But, at some point of time it is better to not try and logically understand each and every matter. The reason is that even the human logical thinking has got certain limitations and therefore cannot understand everything. A person who is absorbed in thinking of Krishna 24/7 has to be respected and each and every statement given by him should be understood in the right spirit of understanding. If you really want a logical explanation, then science has proved that the cow-dung has got beneficial ingredients only recently where-as, the Vedas have informed this to us in the ancient times itself. The point is that science takes a lot of time to come to conclusion and prove something which is already there in the Vedas..

You are right that we are all originally spirit souls and therefore the gender aspect does not matter. But, if we see even from Krishna's own pastimes in Vrindaavana that the ladies responded to Krishna. The best pastime is the one in which Krishna's friend ask for some food from the Brahmanas, who refuse. But, their wives instantly engage in delivering the food to Krishna and His friends. I guess, as you mentioned in your comment, there can be exceptions to this rule...

You are right Thesit Ji. Just dry intellect without love can never help a person in involving in devotional service to Krishna.

What you said is a drawback which a hierarchical structure could bring. Of course, the process of spreading Krishna consciousness is a battle against external energy of Krishna and therefore a subtle military action for sure. The advantage being that the weapon used here is Krishna's instructions and Krishna's Holy Names.

Hierarchy is needed if an institution has to get something done. Otherwise there tends to be quite a lot of chaos and confusion. But, it should not be a hindrance to equal vision because the hierarchy is only in relation to the temporary body. In terms of the spirit-soul there is only rendering pure love for Krishna.

Very well said Kulapavana Ji. It is a process of first going to the mode of Goodness by following all the rules and regulations of the Varnaashrama Dharma and then with the Grace and Mercy of Krishna and Guru transcending even the mode of Goodness to reach the level of Pure Devotional service.

Ok there may be many exceptions -- Agreed! But give an example of a man who becomes pregnant? Just like the physicalities of man and woman differ, similarly the mentalities would also differ. What is the difficulty in understanding this? In fact, the mentality of woman is in some cases more favourable for devotional service because majority of women tend to be simple and can accept the simple Absolute Truth, As It Is.