jijaji
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Originally posted by Maitreya:
Is this it?
[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 09-03-2001).]
No this IS not the letter, because the letter we received was not addressed to mayapur. Also it did say and I quote..
" The Christians are OUR greatest enemies"
jijaji
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[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 09-03-2001).]
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i remember one time when they were implememting the gaurd program at the early iskcon temple I was in and they wanted to make all males undergo the training. The idea was so we would all be able to defend the temple/deities if they were attacked. I remember a letter that wascirculated at that time wherein Prabhupada was encouraging the temple gaurd program, and in that letter he said.." The Christians were OUR greatest enimies" ..of course many will discount this . But I swear by what I hold dear and true I read it with my own eyes..I don't know if anyone else can confirm this ..from back in 72, 73..
jijaji
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Yea I know...just wanting this thread to continue.
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QUOTE:
"The most sensational observation of Swami Sri Yukteshvar was that the world now was in the Dvapar Yuga."
I do not accept totally..
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Originally posted by talasiga:
Gee Animesh,
Why did you miss JN Das's first three paragraphs.
In them your question is answered.
Just look deeply
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But of course...!
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Desert Father stories
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There were two old men who dwelt together for many years and who never quarreled.
Then one said to the other:
"Let us pick a quarrel with each other like other men do."
"I do not know how quarrels arise," answered his companion.
So the other said to him:
"Look, I will put a brick down here between us and I will say 'This is mine.' Then you can say 'No it is not, it is mine.' Then we will be able to have a quarrel."
So they placed the brick between them and the first one said:
"This is mine."
His companion answered him:
"This is not so, for it is mine."
To this, the first one said:
"If it is so and the brick is yours, then take it and go your way."
And so they were not able to have a quarrel.
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My totem pole needs no Gay Guru blessing, thank you!
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I am curious as well...who is this Guru..?
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Originally posted by BDas:
I will try to make the same(deleted)point I made before in a more delicate manner.
Many devotees on these forums who are quick to condemn homosexuals for sexual deviancy are themselves practicing some type unaccepted sex as far as the scriptures are concerned. Along with that many drink and or take drugs.
** Even so the scriptures condone the GRIHASTA ASHRAM for man to satisfy his sexual urges with family, children etc. as being conducive to spiritual advancement and that is simply MAN & WOMEN.
Unaccepted sex...between man & women..? Maybe in an ashram or for those who want to attain higher than kanistha adhikari.
In the 1st place I don't accept that the 4 regs should be the standard for ALL humanity (no meat eating ..well yea)
Since I left ashram life in 1984 I have known few devotees living outside the ashram who claimed to be strictly following the rules and regulations.
** yea...
It is considered quite normal for devotees living outside to be sexually active and few chant regular rounds.
** Not everyone is meant to be a monk...but if you LOOK at Nature itself you will SEE OPPOSITES ATTRACTING EACH OTHER. Look at the BIRDS (watch out now darwin)look at Butterflies. In fact I recommend you to do a Butterfly meditation and see the yin-yang Shiva-shakti energy.
Which bring up another good point> How come ALL the Vedic deities are MALE with FEMALE Consorts? There are no GAY DEVATAS..!
Still they areregarded as devotees because they have some love for Krishna and Prabhupad. When asked about such devotees Prabhupad said they should still be considered Vaisnavas unless they begin to eat meat.
** Prabhupada would NEVER condone Gay relationships..sorry!
In the article on the third sex it said that living apart from the rest of society was a normal situation for Gays in Vedic culture. We also see this is true to a certain extent in todays culture. In many ways they are a world apart in the way they live and view life.
** True
But those who have appreciation for Krishna are still Vaisnavas regardless of their sexuality and should be given respect and encouragement to be Krishna conscious.
** There were many Gay's in iskcon and they really seem to have been the one's to have screwed up a lot of things.
They are not real popular with the Gurukulis that's for sure.
Just as we respect and try to help other devotees who do not follow the all the sexual rules and regulations. Hare Krishna,
** Well what can be said..people will do have they have done for centuries.
I declare;
GAYISM IS ONLY MANIFEST IN THE MATERIAL WORLD..
meaning it is only within the relm of maya that GAYISM is seen, not in the spiritual universes. It's not even a perverted reflection of an activity in the spiritual world... is against NATURE..the natural BALANCE God created!
jijaji
Bdas
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Originally posted by jndas:
With the exception of the banned individual, can any single person here come forward and say I have censored your post? Have I ever censored Jijaji's anti Gaudiya Matha messages? Have I censored Satyaraja's anti Chaitanya vaishnavism messages? Have I censored a single of Shvu's atheistic messages? Your accusations are a joke.
It's TRUE...
Jndas is MORE than fair with those of us who see things differently. I lost it the other week and thought I was off for good, but jndas's allowed me to remain!
He said because my blow-up was directed towards him, he didn't take it as seriously as he would have had it been another forum member.
I thought that was very cool and showed him to be very human, not some distant moderator who swoops down on occasion to delete postings and people, with no explnation..! Frankly his acting such impressed me and made me respect him as a person.
He is the ONLY Forum moderator who gets in there in the trenches with us.
Jai Radhe,
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Originally posted by amanpeter:
Exactly, prabhu! That is why I personally must see God only as my guru and not my guru only as God. Truth is there, in everything and everyone, for those with the eyes to see. I believe that vision is available solely by Divine Grace and She always works in mysterious ways, far beyond our limited understanding or ability to control. Let's take whatever we find from wherever and share it here together for whoever can appreciate and hopefully benefit! JAI RADHE!!! valaya
[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 08-28-2001).]
you expand my bliss..thank you and forgive my offences and help this small-minded one advance towards ALL who aspire to know the DIVINE..!
Jai Sri Radhe,
jijaji
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As hard as it is for many to hear this I say it;
Homosexuality is against NATURE..look at the bees, the animals in the forest, FISH all pretty much (darwin will throw disagreement) but for the most part ANIMALS are NATURELY heterosexual, look at the butterflies (they are whom we should emulate)
Homosexual is a mal-function and not in accordance to the universal principal of YIN/YANG it is simply speaking UNNATURAL...no mattetr HOW MUCH the Gay Community PROTESTS.
There is something known as sacred ground and it it is NOT MAN & MAN or WOMEN and WOMEN!
Man & women in this material world can be seen as a preverted reflection, (there is basis in this) Radha Krishna..
There is NO basis for MAN & MAN OR Women & Women except material perversion....and a bizarre twist of what kind of relationships we should have in the material world.
jijaji
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Alas I have been pondering the teachings of this great saint Sri Ramakrishna and it dawned upon me....jijaji the seeker (if you will)
Ramakrishna is firm in his conviction THAT all paths to GOD are valid!
Be they Vaishnava, Shavite, Advaitavadin, Tantrika, Yogin, Kriyaban, Chaitanyite, Vallabhaite, Shakta..(Goddess/Devi cult), Dvaitavadin, Christian (gnostics), Muslim (sufi), Jews (kabbalah), Paganism etc. etc.
If ALL these diffferent paths ARE valid approaches to the DIVINE as realized by Sri Ramakrishna....
Then I say why not the Various paths WITHIN each individual PATH i.e. Vaishnava, Shaivite, Shakta etc. are as VALID as any....
In other words the various paths within Gaudiya Vaishnaviam for instance...
Iskcon, Gaudiya Math (many differing moods) and the Babaji camp..are ALL VALID and with purpose for differing types of Sadhakas who possess different moods and tastes.
What is the use of accepting that God manifests himself through different moods in varing faiths, but still seeing those within each particular religion fight and fight and fight..
Thus it would seem that the universalism Sri Ramakrishna speaks of should appply to various factions of one particular faith..
Certainly Srila Prabupada inspired many and brought Sri Krishna to life for many souls, and as well Srila Narayan Maharaja seems to be leading many to the path of devotion to Radha Krishna as well. Next we have the Babaji camp who teaches a different approach from the Gaudiya Math institutions, but still they are giving THEIR way to Krishna as well.
If I at all appreciate Sri Ramakrishna's universal teachings ..
I MUST..have this perspective and humbly bow before ALL who teach about the GODHEAD regardless of what branch, what way of worship, what SAMPRADAYA etc.,
If GOD is being approached in whatever manner I should humbly bow and accept whatever mercy comith my way.
jijaji
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[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 08-28-2001).]
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Ya know.....
I lived in SF for 7 years back in the 80's and I gotta say..The Gay community I saw were biggest bunch of BABIES EVER.
They can laugh and tease and put down every other group of people on the face of the earth (and they do) but if you start making any fun of them..!
WATCH OUT.
Their in the streets marching (For Real).
The Gay community in SF seemed like a bunch of uptight biggots themselves, as a straight person I remember myself and my girlfriend being harassed by them on occasion, being called BREADERS etc.
I also remember Buena Vista Park in the Haight having to be policed because families with kids out on a nice stroll in the park were coming across too many bush buddies (ya get me?)
Many Gay men have been known to have many MULTIPLE SEX partners in one night..say to the tune of 24,30. Of course this kind of activity helped AIDS spread once in hit their community.
(notice I said the promescuity helped spread it, not being gay)
It is just bizarre to me that Gay men in particular can be so involved in such disgusting behaviour i.e. anal sex, fist ****ing, and other gross things and when people make jokes about them ..their all hurt..!
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[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 08-28-2001).]
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from that gay site;
:In Vedic literature, the strongest bond within this material world is said to be the attraction between man and woman. Combined, they create so many attachments such as home, property, children, grandchildren, etc., all of which serve as distractions from the cultivation of spiritual life. Transgender people were considered to be aloof from this attachment, particularly gay males. They typically did not engage in procreation or family life, and this was a special quality that made their status unique within civilized Vedic culture."
I do not accept this at all...they are simply trying to elevate their own status.
Aloof from attachment...sure!
Where is the proof that the natabaris were drag-queens..?
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Whay do we beat this 'DEAD HORSE' over and over and over again.
I am mentality and spirituality exhasted from this debate, and need some spiritual discipline i.e. bhajana, japa, yoga, meditation, which will give me some insight into my spiritual nature and God's Grace.
namaskar,
jijaji
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Originally posted by amanpeter:
Shvu, are you speaking of Sri Ramana Maharshi and didn't he use to say that there is only ONE question we should ask ourselves, "Who am I?" I took this as a personal mantra for some time, even facing myself in the mirror while on LSD.
Valayaji..
I do not think this is what Ramana had in mind, I mean doing atma-jnana on LSD starring into a mirror. At least I have never read about it in any of his statements.
But I understand as many of us came to experience spirituality thru these types of mediums.
I remember somewhere some 'Be Here Now' type who said LSD was .."Little Satori"
peace,
jijaji
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Originally posted by jijaji:
MASTER: "It is not good to feel that one's own religion alone is true and all others are false. God is one only, and not two. Different people call on Him by different names: some as Allah, some as God, and others as Krishna, Siva, and Brahman. It is like the water in a lake. Some drink it at one place and call it 'jal', others at another place and call it 'pani', and still others at a third place and call it 'water'. The Hindus call it 'jal', the Christians 'water', and the Mussulmans 'pani'. But it is one and the same thing. Opinions are but paths. Each religion is only a path leading to God, as rivers come from different directions and ultimately become one in the one ocean.
indeed..!
jijaji
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Sri Sri Ramakrishna Kathamritam
CHAPTER 12
THE FESTIVAL AT PANIHATI
Saturday, July 21, 1883.
Dogmatism condemned
Khelat Ghosh's house was a big mansion, but it looked deserted. As the Master entered the house he fell into an ecstatic mood. M., Ramlal, and a few other devotees were with him. Their host was Khelat Ghosh's brother-in-law. He was an old man, a Vaishnava. His body was stamped with the name of God, according to the Vaishnava custom, and he carried in his hand a small bag containing his rosary. He had visited the Master, now and then, at Dakshineswar. But most of the Vaishnavas held narrow religious views; they criticized the Vedantists and the followers of the Siva cult. Sri Ramakrishna soon began to speak.
MASTER: "It is not good to feel that one's own religion alone is true and all others are false. God is one only, and not two. Different people call on Him by different names: some as Allah, some as God, and others as Krishna, Siva, and Brahman. It is like the water in a lake. Some drink it at one place and call it 'jal', others at another place and call it 'pani', and still others at a third place and call it 'water'. The Hindus call it 'jal', the Christians 'water', and the Mussulmans 'pani'. But it is one and the same thing. Opinions are but paths. Each religion is only a path leading to God, as rivers come from different directions and ultimately become one in the one ocean.
"The Truth established in the Vedas, the Puranas, and the Tantras is but one Satchidananda. In the Vedas It is called Brahman, in the Puranas It is called Krishna, Rama, and so on, and in the Tantras It is called Siva. The one Satchidananda is called Brahman, Krishna, and Siva."
The devotees were silent.
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[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 08-23-2001).]
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On another occasion M. advised: 'One should see everything connected with the Master in detail. For example, in the Master's room there are cots, a jar containing Ganga water, pictures of gods and goddesses - Kali, Krishna, Rama, Chaitanya and his kirtan party, Dhruva, Prahlad, Christ extending his hand to the drowning Peter, and a white marble image of Buddha, which was given to him by Queen Katyayani, the wife of Lalababu. There was a picture of the goddess of learning on the western wall. Whenever a new person would come, the Master would look at the picture and pray, "Mother, I am an unlettered person. Please sit on my tongue", and then he would speak to him. If a person can imprint these divine sights on his mind, he will have deep meditations, and even sitting at home he can live at Dakshineswar with the Master'.
from 'The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna'
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Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:
Ramakrishna:
"I see people who talk about religion constantly quarrelling with one another. Hindus, Mussalmans, Brahmos, Shaktas, Vaishnavas, Shaivas, all quarrel with one another. They haven't the intelligence to understand that He who is called Krishna is also Shiva and the Primal Shakti, and that it is He, again, who is called Jesus and Allah. "There is only one Rama and He has a thousand names." Truth is one; It is only called by different names. All people are seeking the same Truth; the disagreement is due to differences in climate, temperament, and names. Everyone is going toward God. They will all realize Him if they have sincerity and longing of heart.
"God has made different religions and creeds to suit different aspirants.
"If there are errors in other religions, that is none of our business. God, to whom the world belongs, takes care of that."
>This pretty much wraps up Ramakrishna's teachings in a nutshell.
Remember Ramakrishna was as he said.."unlettered" without a "Bread-winning education". At the same time he held the intellectual giants and pandits of Calcutta in awe, with his simplistic approach and lovingness towards ALL.
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Sri Sri Ramakrishna Kathamritam
CHAPTER 8
THE MASTER'S BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION AT DAKSHINESWAR
Sunday, February 18, 1883.
SRI RAMAKRISHNA arrived at Govinda Mukherji's house at Belgharia, near Calcutta. Besides Narendra, Ram, and other devotees, some of Govinda's neighbors were present. The Master first sang and danced with the devotees. After the kirtan they sat down. Many saluted the Master. Now and then he would say, "Bow before God."
Master's attitude toward the wicked "It is God alone", he said, "who has become all this. But in certain places -- for instance, in a holy man -- there is a greater manifestation than in others. You may say, there are wicked men also. That is true, even as there are tigers and lions; but one need not hug the 'tiger God'. One should keep away from him and salute him from a distance. Take water, for instance. Some water may be drunk, some may be used for worship, some for bathing, and some only for washing dishes."
Paths of Knowledge and devotion
A NEIGHBOR: "Revered sir, what are the doctrines of Vedanta?"
MASTER: "The Vedantist says, 'I am He.' Brahman is real and the world illusory. Even the 'I' is illusory. Only the Supreme Brahman exists.
"But the 'I' cannot be got rid of. Therefore it is good to have the feeling, 'I am the servant of God, His son, His devotee.'
"For the Kaliyuga the path of bhakti is especially good. One can realize God through bhakti too. As long as one is conscious of the body, one is also conscious of objects. Form, taste, smell, sound, and touch -- these are the objects. It is extremely difficult to get rid of the consciousness of objects. And one cannot realize, 'I am He' as long as one is aware of objects.
"The sannyasi has very little conscious of worldly objects. But the householder is always engrossed in them. Therefore it is good for him to feel, 'I am the servant of God.' "
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[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 08-23-2001).]
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Nature outside cannot give us any answer as to the existence of the soul, the existence of God, the eternal life, the goal of man, and all that. This mind is continually changing, always in a state of flux; it is finite, it is broken into pieces. How can nature tell of the Infinite, the Unchangeable, the Unbroken, the Indivisible, the Eternal? It never can. And whenever mankind has striven to get an answer from dull dead matter, history shows how disastrous the results have been. How comes, then, the knowledge which the Vedas declare? It comes through being a Rishi. This knowledge is not in the senses; but are the senses the be-all and the end-all of the human being? Who dare say that the senses are the all-in-all of man? Even in our lives, in the life of every one of us here, there come moments of calmness, perhaps, when we see before us the death of one we loved, when some shock comes to us, or when extreme p«blessedness comes to us. Many other occasions there are when the mind, as it were, becomes calm, feels for the moment its real nature; and a glimpse of the Infinite beyond, where words cannot reach nor the mind go, is revealed to us. This happens in ordinary life, but it has to be heightened, practised, perfected. Men found out ages ago that the soul is not bound or limited by the senses, no, not even by consciousness. We have to understand that this consciousness is only the name of one link in the infinite chain. Being is not identical with consciousness, but consciousness is only one part of Being. Beyond consciousness is where the bold search lies. Consciousness is bound by the senses. Beyond that, beyond the senses, men must go in order to arrive at truths of the spiritual world, and there are even now persons who succeed in going beyond the bounds of the senses. These are called Rishis, because they come face to face with spiritual truths.
The proof, therefore, of the Vedas is just the same as the proof of this table before me, Pratyaksha, direct perception. This I see with the senses, and the truths of spirituality we also see in a superconscious state of the human soul. This Rishi-state is not limited by time or place, by sex or race. Vatsyayana boldly declares that this Rishi-hood is the common property of the descendants of the sage, of the Aryan, of the non-Aryan, of even the Mlechchha. This is the sage-ship of the Vedas, and constantly we ought to remember this ideal of religion in India, which I wish other nations of the world would also remember and learn, so that there may be less fight and less quarrel. Religion is not in books, nor in theories, nor in dogmas, nor in talking, not even in reasoning. It is being and becoming. Ay, my friends, until each one of you has become a Rishi and come face to face with spiritual facts, religious life has not begun for you. Until the superconscious opens for you, religion is mere talk, it is nothing but preparation. You are talking second-hand, third-hand, and here applies that beautiful saying of Buddha when he had a discussion with some Brahmins. They came discussing about the nature of Brahman, and the great sage asked, "Have you seen Brahman?No", said the Brahmin; "Or your father?No, neither has he"; "Or your grandfather?I don't think even he saw Him.My friend, how can you discuss about a person whom your father and grandfather never saw, and try to put each other down?" That is what the whole world is doing. Let us say in the language of the Vedanta, "This Atman is not to be reached by too much talk, no, not even by the highest intellect, no, not even by the study of the Vedas themselves."
Let us speak to all the nations of the world in the language of the Vedas: Vain are your fights and your quarrels; have you seen God whom you want to preach? If you have not seen, vain is your preaching; you do not know what you say; and if you have seen God, you will not quarrel, your very face will shine. An ancient sage of the Upanishads sent his son out to learn about Brahman, and the child came back, and the father asked, "What have you learnt?" The child replied he had learnt so many sciences. But the father said, "That is nothing, go back." And the son went back, and when he returned again the father asked the same question, and the same answer came form the child. Once more he had to go back. And the next time he came, his whole face was shining; and his father stood up and declared, "Ay, today, my child, your face shines like a knower of Brahman." When you have known God, your very face will be changed, your voice will be changed, your whole appearance will be changed. You will be a blessing to mankind; none will be able to resist the Rishi. This is the Rishi-hood, the ideal in our religion. The rest, all these talks and reasonings and philosophies and dualisms and monisms, and even the Vedas themselves are but preparations, secondary things. The other is primary. The Vedas, grammar, astronomy, etc., all these are secondary; that is supreme knowledge which makes us realise the Unchangeable One. Those who realised are the sages whom we find in the Vedas; and we understand how this Rishi is the name of a type, of a class, which every one of us, as true Hindus, is expected to become at some period of our life, and becoming which, to the Hindu, means salvation. Not belief in doctrines, not going to thousands of temples, nor bathing in all the rivers in the world, but becoming the Rishi, the Mantra-drashta, that is freedom, that is salvation.
Svami Vivekananda - - -complete works
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Srila Prabhupada said... but it wasn't recorded.
in Spiritual Discussions
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You will believe what you will. Good Luck sorting through the truth.
Prabhupada also said that Christianity was a lower form of Religion..why cling to it so..?
jijaji