gauragopala dasa

Well written and point understood, I agree with you here

Thats how we were treated in 72 in Melbourne

Srila Prabhupada - “Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.9.1 <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Yes , to me that makes sense because in February 1973 Srila Prabhupada told me personally that the body I now have is not me and that my real identity and body is in Vaikuntha , right now – he was adamant saying ‘your real body is already there in Vaikuntha’<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - As soon as we understand that, “I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krishna’s servant. Eternal servant. That’s all. lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.9.1 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned” Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 196<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Our contact with matter is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness, we break the dream. Similarly, we can break this So this situation” Srila Prabhupada lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Śrīmad

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda Germany, June 22, 1974 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

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<TABLE class=tborder id=post1071478 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_1071478 style="BORDER-TOP: #cfcfcf 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #cfcfcf 1px solid">In simple English we are marginal that can choose to serve Krishna's super energy or be covered by his inferior energy “The living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) and eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned. The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Letter the Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In this way the living entities are called marginal potency because they are naturally surrounded by and serving the Superior energy (Krishna and His Vishnu expansions) in their original perpetual body in Vaikuntha, or can choose to use their free will and become covered by the temporary inferior energy in the forms of decaying ethereal and biological bodies (MATERIAL) within the mahat-tattva or material creation. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The jiva-tatastha or marginal living entity can also further enter the greatest phenomenon and mystery that has perplexed so many pandits, scholars, Sadhus, yogis, Swami’s Guru’s and Vaishavas for thousands of years, and that is a dormant dreamless state of individual consciousness that is part of a quiescent collective called the impersonal Brahmajyoti. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <FONT size=3>The Impersonal Brahman is neither the superior energy nor the inferior energy. Let me explain. Achintya-Bheda-Abheda is applicable here because ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<o:p></o:p> It is in this way that this Impersonal Brahman or Brahmajyoti does not and can never represent the full potential or Krishna conscious perpetual bodily origins of tatastha s’akti (the marginal living entity) because ones genuine self is eternally established in the endless ‘presents’ of Goloka and Vaikuntha that is beyond the influence of mundane time and space. The jiva-tatasthas souls that have projected themselves into the Impersonal Brahmajyoti are for that reason in a dreaming static state of delusional individual consciousness unaware of their perpetual Krishna Conscious body in Goloka or Vaikuntha. Therefore it is only the lower non <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> conscious condition of the jiva tatastha that has merged into a individual collective called the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, like the mahat-tattva, is also a temporary state of existence and imagination for the jiva tatastha.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Regarding your question, in one sense both you and Mahapurusa are right. The fact is that after the dissolution of the Universe the living entities remain in slumber within Maha Visnu, and again when the creation takes place they are impregnated in their original position and they come out in different species of life. By gradual evolutionary process, when they come to the human form there is good chance of getting out of the repeated birth and death, and one can enter into the Spiritual Realm. But if one loses this chance he is again put into the cycle of birth and death. The conditioned souls are always within the Maha Visnu Form, whereas the liberated souls in Vaikuntha, they are engaged in the service of the Lord. Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down. Letter the Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu<o:p></o:p> <!-- / message --> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #cfcfcf 1px solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef"> <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: postbit_onlinestatus --><!-- END TEMPLATE: postbit_onlinestatus --><!-- [sTART HACK='vB Pager' AUTHOR='UAEWEB.COM' VERSION='3.0.3' CHANGEID= 7 ] --><!-- [END HACK='vB Pager' AUTHOR='UAEWEB.COM' VERSION='3.0.3' CHANGEID= 7 ] --> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The Supreme Lord has TWO energies, material and spiritual. The living entities are marginal energy. As marginal energy, a person may be under the control of the material energy (Maha-maya) or the spiritual energy (Yoga- maya). SB 3.23.10 pp.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "The living entity (jiva-atma) takes different positions - sometimes he merges into the dark material nature and identifies himself with matter, and sometimes he identifies himself with the superior spiritual nature. THEREFORE, he is called the Lords marginal energy. " BG 8.3 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "The fact is that individual living entities are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanctions of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate the supreme nature, and BECAUSE HE HAS THIS TENDENCY, he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord. " BG 13.23 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the above verses, Srila Prabhupada explains that marginal energy means the TENDENCY of the living entity to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So, marginal energy, or tatastha-shakti, is NOT a particular place or area in outer space where souls drop from, but it denotes the NATURE of the jiva-soul. It refers to a living entity with the nature of independently choosing between the Lord's two energies. Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy, but their natures are called marginal. This marginal energy (jiva-soul) is an expansion of Lord Krishna, who is the origin of the living entities.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal. (See CC Adi 2.96)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> If the marginal living entity chooses to go back to the internal energy (the spiritual world), it still keeps his marginal independence. It does not change his nature into internal energy and becomes Vishnu-tattva. Although the living entities are equal in quality to the internal potency of Krishna (which is spiritual), they nevertheless keep their marginal independence. Jiva-tattva (the marginal energy) does not turn into Vishnu-tattva (the internal energy), otherwise the living entity would turn into God Himself as in Mayavadi philosophy.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Marginal energy can be situated either in the external or internal energy of the Lord and according to the living beings free will and contact with either the material or spiritual energies, the living being is situated in proportionally higher or lower levels of existence. If marginal energy can freely choose to be situated in either external or internal energy, then marginal energy (because of his free will) can also choose to leave either external or internal energy.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

Srila Prabhupada - "Three energies are predominant: the internal energy, external energy and marginal energy. This is confirmed in the Sixth Chapter of Vishnu Purana where it is said that Vishnu has one energy, which is called spiritual energy Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya Srila Prabhupada - "It is manifested in three ways. When spiritual energy is overwhelmed by ignorance, it is called marginal energy. As far as spiritual energy itself is concerned, it is exhibited in three forms because Krishna is a combination of eternity, bliss and knowledge. Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya Srila Prabhupada - "As far as His bliss is concerned, His spiritual energy is manifested as the pleasure giving potency. His eternity is manifested as energy, and His knowledge is manifested as spiritual perfection. As confirmed in Vishnu Purana (1.12.69): Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya Srila Prabhupada - ""The pleasure potency of Krishna gives Krishna transcendental pleasure and bliss." Thus when Krishna wants to enjoy pleasure, He exhibits His own spiritual potency known as hladini. Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya Srila Prabhupada - "In His spiritual form, Krishna enjoys His spiritual energy, and that is the sum and substance of the Radha-Krishna pastimes. These pastimes can only be understood by elevated devotees Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya

Srila Prabhupada - "According to Vedic instructions, one should understand the constitutional position of the living entity, the position of the Lord, and the position of material energy in their interrelation. First of all, one should try to understand the constitutional position of the Supreme Lord, the Personality of Godhead. That Supreme Lord has an eternal, cognizant, blissful body, and His spiritual energy is distributed as eternity, knowledge and bliss. Chapter 25: Personal and Impersonal Realization Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya<!-- END TEMPLATE: newreply_reviewbit --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: newreply_reviewbit --> Srila Prabhupada - "In His blissful identity can be found His pleasure potency, and in His eternal identity He can be seen as the cause of everything. In His cognizant identity, He is the supreme knowledge. Indeed, the word kṛṣṇa indicates that supreme knowledge. In other words, the Supreme Personality, Kṛṣṇa, is the reservoir of all knowledge, pleasure and eternity. The supreme knowledge of Kṛṣṇa is exhibited in three different energies — internal, marginal and external. Chapter 25: Personal and Impersonal Realization Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya Srila Prabhupada - "By virtue of His internal energy, He exists in Himself with His spiritual paraphernalia; by means of His marginal energy, He exhibits Himself as the living entities, and by means of His external energy He exhibits Himself as material energy. Behind each and every energetic exhibition there is the background of eternity, pleasure, potency and full cognizance.Chapter 25: Personal and Impersonal Realization Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya<!-- END TEMPLATE: newreply_reviewbit --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: newreply_reviewbit --> Srila Prabhupada - "The conditioned soul is the marginal potency overpowered by the external potency. However, when the marginal potency comes under the jurisdiction of the spiritual potency, it becomes eligible for love of Godhead. The Supreme Lord enjoys six kinds of opulences, and no one can establish that He is formless or that He is without energy. If someone claims so, his contention is completely opposed to the Vedic instructions. Actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the master of ali energies. It is only the living entity, who is an infinitesimal part and parcel of Him, who is overpowered by the material energy.Chapter 25: Personal and Impersonal Realization Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya <!-- END TEMPLATE: newreply_reviewbit --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: newreply_reviewbit -->

Srila Prabhupada - "The original energy of the Supreme Lord is spiritual and nondifferent from the Supreme Absolute Personality of Godhead. The living entity is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord, and the material energy is called the inferior energy. Due to his material inebriety, the living entity in the marginal position becomes entangled with the inferior energy, matter. At such a time he forgets his spiritual significance, identifies himself with material energy and thereby becomes subjected to the threefold miseries. Only when he is free from such material contamination can he be situated in his proper position".Chapter 25: Personal and Impersonal Realization Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja - ' A question arises: if all souls are eternal servants of Sri Krsna, when did they become adverse (bahirmukha) to Him? When did they turn away from Him? Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami has explained this by quoting the version of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu: "Krsna bhuli' sei jiva." Who is the jiva referred to in this verse? He is the eternal servant of Sri Krsna, Krsna's marginal potency (tatastha-sakti). This should be remembered always; the jiva is not a direct manifestation of Sri Krsna's internal potency. The living entity's constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna, because he is the marginal energy of Krsna - a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or spark of fire. Krsna has three varieties of energy." Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu explained, "Jivera svarupa haya krsnera nitya dasa." By spiritual constitution, all those who have life - including human beings, birds, animals, trees and creepers, and even very small worms and insects - are eternal servants of Lord Krsna. There is no doubt of this, and this also applies to us Krsnera tatastha sakti - all souls are transformations of the Lord's marginal potency (tatastha-sakti)

Srila Prabhupada – “The living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) and eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can’t be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Letter the Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu The Impersonalist understanding today is rampant and affecting many who wrongly believe that the jiva-soul becomes conscious after originally ‘falling out’ of the impersonal Brahmajyoti and then ‘somehow’ becomes endowed with free will, therefore their understanding of the Brahmajyoti is obviously impersonal and therefore dangerous. Such sects do not understand the correct PERSONAL teaching of the Vedas given to us by Jagat Guru His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada -”The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the (marginal) living entities live together very peacefully” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport) Srila Prabhupada - "The Supreme Lord has TWO energies, material and spiritual. The living entities are marginal energy. As marginal energy, a person may be under the control of the material energy (Maha-maya) or the spiritual energy (Yoga- maya). SB 3.23.10 pp.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The living entity (jiva-atma) takes different positions - sometimes he merges into the dark material nature and identifies himself with matter, and sometimes he identifies himself with the superior spiritual nature. THEREFORE, he is called the Lords marginal energy. " BG 8.3 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The fact is that individual living entities are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanctions of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate the supreme nature, and BECAUSE HE HAS THIS TENDENCY; he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord. " BG 13.23 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the above verses, Srila Prabhupada explains that marginal energy means the TENDENCY of the living entity to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So, marginal energy, or tatastha-shakti, is NOT a particular place or area in outer space where souls drop from, but it denotes the NATURE of the jiva-soul. It refers to a living entity with the nature of independently choosing between the Lord's two energies. Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy, but their natures are called marginal. This marginal energy (jiva-soul) is an expansion of Lord Krishna, who is the origin of the living entities.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal. (See CC Adi 2.96)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> If the marginal living entity chooses to go back to the internal energy (the spiritual world), it still keeps his marginal independence. It does not change his nature into internal energy and becomes Vishnu-tattva. Although the living entities are equal in quality to the internal potency of Krishna (which is spiritual), they nevertheless keep their marginal independence. Jiva-tattva (the marginal energy) does not turn into Vishnu-tattva (the internal energy), otherwise the living entity would turn into God Himself as in Mayavadi philosophy.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Marginal energy can be situated either in the external or internal energy of the Lord and according to the living beings free will and contact with either the material or spiritual energies, the living being is situated in proportionally higher or lower levels of existence. If marginal energy can freely choose to be situated in either external or internal energy, then marginal energy (because of his free will) can also choose to leave either external or internal energy."<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Here are excerpts from two letters the Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu regarding our 'original position'. One letter is from 1968 and one from 1969.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your question, in one sense both you and Mahapurusa are right. The fact is that after the dissolution of the Universe the living entities remain in slumber within Maha Visnu, and again when the creation takes place they are impregnated in their original position and they come out in different species of life. By gradual evolutionary process, when they come to the human form there is good chance of getting out of the repeated birth and death, and one can enter into the Spiritual Realm. But if one loses this chance he is again put into the cycle of birth and death. The conditioned souls are always within the Maha Visnu Form, whereas the liberated souls in Vaikuntha, they are engaged in the service of the Lord. Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down”. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated and eternally conditioned. But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned. The Time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Since we cannot trace out when we have become conditioned, there is no use of arguing on this point. Better to take care first how we can get rid of this conditional existence; as much as a patient should take care for treating his disease more, and less waste his time in finding out the cause of his disease".<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Please offer my blessings to the others. I hope this will meet you in good health." <o:p></o:p> A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Absolute nonsense!! You not understanding, ring your nearest temple iskcon or gaudiya math and learn the truth that marginal means jiva-tattva in Vaikuntha or the material world

We have all come down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, the Spiritual Master of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada explains our eternal constitutional position - "We believe there is a Personality of Godhead and also that we are persons. We want all our troublesome situations removed and wish to reach a position where we can move freely and have all our needs satisfied. This has resulted in our turning towards that Supreme Absolute Personality.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the Supreme Lord we find three features - He is ever existing, full of knowledge and the source of unending happiness. In Him there is no inadequacy, no discrepancy, no defect, no influence of time, nor any ignorance. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Because He is an "emporium" of all bliss and all knowledge, we should not seek after anything for our worldly purposes, leaving Him aside. We are His servants. He is the Lord. Nevertheless He need not give us anything. We are simply meant to serve Him and eternal peace comes from our eagerness in His service.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> God has got spiritual eyes, spiritual ears, spiritual tongue, spiritual nose, spiritual skin and a spiritual mind: nothing material like us. Our senses are made of material elements, but there are no material elements in Him.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Although He can choose to delegate power to certain infinitesimal souls and thereby enable them to transact affairs with Him, ordinarily we are placed in a region where all sorts of imperfection and undesirables are prominent.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> From this bitter experience, we should recognize the need to devise some means to get free from unpleasant situations and become prepared for the stage wherefrom we can realize the nature of our own true selves". Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada -9th of January 1926<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Try to understand what Srila Prabhupada is also telling us.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand". In an Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive (Regain, re-establish, wake up from the dream, remember who we really are as a body eternally in a state of originality) our Krishna consciousness”. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "As soon as we understand that (my svarupa body is always in Krsnaloka or Vaikuntha or even both), "I have nothing to do with (the material world and its bodily vessels my sub-conscious fallen nitya-baddha condition is housed in). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971<o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever (conditioned as nitya-baddha in the material world)"(Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada -"You are ever-liberated (meaning in our original and eternal state, we are all nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual but is sometimes overcrowded with cloud (known as the mahat-tattva or material creation that is in one corner of the Spiritual Sky), this is Maya (The cloud is created by Maha-Vishnu and His Wife Maya-Devi, through her powerful s'akti, controls all the bodily vessels occupied by the visiting DREAMING baddha-jivas)". Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967 <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "This is called Maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)<o:p></o:p> ALL living entities were created as sat, cit, ananda in the form of eternal vigraha in the beginning (which paradoxically was beginingless). <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In this way, the original residence of all living entities (marginal beings) is their original home Goloka-Vrndavana or Krsnaloka, which is the imperishable Kingdom of God. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973 <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion, then that is material. Try to understand”. In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 <o:p></o:p> The paradox here is no one never really leaves Goloka, they only imagine they do by falling out of sync with the 'eternal present'<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The resulting paradox is that while one is in the material world, they actually believe they are in the material world because not only do they have no memory of their 'eternal svarupa' body, but also they have consciously separated themselves from the eternal present’ where their real eternal bodily self resides.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The full potential and original feature of all living entities is a two arm human looking form <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "It is the living entity's constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krishna because he is the marginal energy of Krishna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krishna has three varieties of energy" Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109 <o:p></o:p> However, all of Krishna's marginal 'sparks' and so called 'atoms (souls) in the effulgence have the same ORIGINAL bodily features like Krishna - sat-cit-ananda-vigraha. The full potential and original feature of all living entities is a two arm human looking form, <o:p></o:p> Yasomatinandana: Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Madhudvisa: The question is that whether the eternal form of the spirit soul is a human form or is it. <o:p></o:p> Prabhupada: Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krishna, two hands, two legs. <o:p></o:p> Hari-sauri: How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms? <o:p></o:p> Prabhupada [describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Hari-sauri: They are covered in the spiritual world? <o:p></o:p> Madhudvisa: He is asking if they were actually covered in the spiritual world as well. <o:p></o:p> Prabhupada: Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krishna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krishna," he becomes flower, voluntarily. <o:p></o:p> Prabhupada: And he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krishna as cow, he serves Krishna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything.<o:p></o:p> It is inconceivable, yet a fact. Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975<o:p></o:p> Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [bg. 4.11]. That is Krsna's all-powerfulness, spiritual life." <o:p></o:p> Hari Sauri dasa – “The fact is that spiritual form is inconceivable to our present senses. In the material world we try to measure things. But to measure anything, there has to be a reference point and our own bodies are the reference we use to understand the rest of the world around us. <o:p></o:p> Thus our sense of existence is limited to the actions and existence of our own bodies. One devotee has given some examples of drinking or jumping in water or sitting on a chair to explain your experience of past, present and future. Once an action is completed, it is gone, it is in the past. <o:p></o:p> As for the future, it is not manifest to us.<o:p></o:p> We do not know what will come next. We thus have a sense of separation from the action and the object, both in the past and the future. But in the spiritual world Krishna is the object and all action is for pleasing Him. There is never any separation from Krishna. <o:p></o:p> Krishna continuously dominates the consciousness of every living being and action is the eternal flow of service to Krishna. It never stops yet it takes on unlimited variety of performance”. End of quote <o:p></o:p> The jiva tattva's take shelter under hladhini Shakti or the mercy of Radharani, they can never become hladhini Shakti because no jiva tattva can become Vishnu tattva - taking shelter, yes, become hladhini Shakti is not possible.<o:p></o:p> Although obviously some Gopis are Vishnu tattva while others are jiva tattva - there is no third category of souls <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada explains this very clearly - ‘We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities… Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion (vibhinnamsa) is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are’. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968 <o:p></o:p> In Prabhupada’s 1969 lecture on Radhastami, which he gave in London, he said, “Radharani is the pleasure potency, hladhini Shakti.” <o:p></o:p> The living entities ARE the marginal energy or tatastha sakti that is not some place or region in the universe as some suggest, but is what we are, there is no something else because there are only two types of living entities – Vishnu-tattva and jiva-tattva<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The marginal living entity, jiva-tattva or other words that simple mean jiva tattva, like tatastha sakti, is a bodily form in their original full constitutional foundation and potential when they realize their true identity of who they really are and have always been, which is expressed as nitya-siddha in their innovative perpetual position. <o:p></o:p> So marginal, jiva tattva and tatastha simply means the ability to choose the land and the ocean or Goloka and the mahat-tattva. The marginal is therefore known as "tatastha sakti" <o:p></o:p> NOTE, THERE ARE 170 DIFFERENT ‘JIVA’ names that all mean jiva-tattva in different spiritual and material pastimes <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “The living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore, two classes are designated: eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) and eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). Letter Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The Supreme Lord has TWO energies, material and spiritual. The living entities are marginal energy. As marginal energy, a person may be under the control of the material energy (Maha-Maya) or the spiritual energy (Yoga- Maya). SB 3.23.10 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The living entity (jiva-atma) takes different positions - sometimes he merges into the dark material nature and identifies himself with matter, and sometimes he identifies himself with the superior spiritual nature. THEREFORE, he is called the Lords marginal energy. " BG 8.3 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The fact is that individual living entities are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanctions of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate the supreme nature, and BECAUSE HE HAS THIS TENDENCY; he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord. " BG 13.23 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the above verses, Srila Prabhupada explains that marginal energy means the TENDENCY of the living entity to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So, marginal energy, or tatastha-shakti, is NOT a particular place or area in outer space where souls drop from, but it denotes the NATURE of the jiva-soul. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It refers to a living entity with the nature of independently choosing between the Lord's two energies. Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy, but their natures are called marginal. This marginal energy (jiva-soul) is an expansion of Lord Krishna, who is the origin of the living entities.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal. (See CC Adi 2.96)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada never used the word ‘tatastha sakti much in his books, he preferred to use the word ‘marginal’ living entity<o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada "Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti 'sadhya' kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977 <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "You have got original relationship with Krishna. Nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti. . (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original constitutional position that is called svarupa-siddhi". (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna". Letter to Australian devotees 1972 under Madhudvisa Swami <o:p></o:p> Actually you are a pure devotee but you have forgotten that long, long, long ago, we have allowed ourselves to be covered by the cloud of selfish desires that blocks out our memory of who we really are. <o:p></o:p> Try to understand what Prabhupada is telling us. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada- "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there. So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand". In an Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada- "Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive (Regain, re-establish, wake up from the dream, remember who we really are as a body eternally in a state of originality) our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that (my svarupa body is always in Krsnaloka or Vaikuntha or even both), "I have nothing to do with (the material world and its bodily vessels my sub-conscious fallen nitya-baddha condition is housed in). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971

Srila Prabhupada ‘personally’ told me (Gauragopala dasa) in the Sydney Temple room in February 1973 (while I was cleaning) that the body I now have is not my real body and that my real body is in Vaikuntha “You just have to realize it” he added “It is there right now” he further explained. Being very young I did not fully appreciate what he was saying<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Some devotees once said in Mayapur in 1976 that it is too difficult to understand how we originally feel down from Goloka or Vaikuntha and the subject is best not discussed as Prabhupada had previously told his Australian devotees in 1972 however on this occasion he says the opposite and tells the devotees they should try to understand. <o:p></o:p> We have to realize that being marginal means free will, even in Goloka. Without it how can there be genuine Love? Try to understand. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We are given free will to increase our love for Krishna but that also allows us to miss use it if we desire.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Here is Srila Prabhupada's response to those who believe it is too difficult to understand we ALL came down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago. Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “It is not difficult. They don’t want to understand”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “But if he likes, he can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “He can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”. Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976, Srila Prabhupada<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return? <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Paramahamsa: Fall down?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?’ Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 Los Angeles<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "originally EVERYONE is nitya-siddha.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti<o:p></o:p> ‘sadhya’ kabhu naya<o:p></o:p> zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world" Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual (the eternal present) reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM WE LEAVE however, don’t delude yourself, those dreams are very real but temporary, so factually we do fall down, we do experience the material world as real and the fact is, whether we like it or not, yes, we are in the material world because the awareness of Goloka and our svarupa body is covered by the reality we have created in the material world, it’s very real and only called an illusion because it is temporary, it fades, we see old age disease and death – even that’s experienced as real, even though temporary. There is a fine line between reality and illusion, one is imperishable and the other is perishable – explained in a nutshell! <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The mahat-tattva is the place where such dreams go and that is also why Maha-Vishnu is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva which takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> These are the words of Lord Caitanya: The jiva's constitutional or inherent position is that of servant of Krsna because he is tatastha sakti, the marginal potency, a manifestation one with and different from Krsna.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We (the marginal living entities) are not a region or place in creation, the marginal plane or jiva s’akti (jiva tattva) IS/ARE the individual independent living beings like you and I, the marginal energy (tatastha s’akti) , jiva-soul or tatastha s’akti, therefore WE ARE NOT in position or area in creation <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The marginal living entities are simply the jiva soul’s individual identity that eternally exists as independent thinking entities or beings that can choose to serve the Superior energy (Krishna) as their perpetual body, or be covered by the inferior energy (fleeting material energy of subtle [ethereal] and gross [biological] bodily vessels) within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Although there is a paradox to all this or an apparent contradiction here, which is, even though the marginal living entities are independent thinkers, still they are always fully dependant on the Lords Superior or inferior energy to express their independent desires.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Tatastha s’akti then refers to the jiva soul’s sovereignty as a living being (you and I) who have ‘our’ identity, personality, individuality and desires or our own way of thinking eternally. We therefore eternally exists independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather under the influence of free will that can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable super energy (Lord Krishna), or take shelter of the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) This is an important point to understand.