Sarva gattah

Can Krishna and Guru be found within one’s heart? Then sent to find you, no matter where you are?

I remember the amazing story of a boy who went into an old Cathedral in Melbourne on February 18th 1972 to desperately pray to God within his own heart and within the Church for guidance and direction, crying out within, ‘Oh my Lord, please show me the way’.

He had entered that church in a totally helpless condition, prayed, and begged to God to ‘please’ show him the way. He felt totally useless and lost in this world and believed no one on the planet has any real understanding of Spiritual life. He had experienced so many from Christianity, TM, Yogananda, Kahlil Gibran, Mere Baba, and Timothy Leary to Lennon. But something was missing.

What could he do? Who could he turn too as a ‘personal’ guide? He tried so many paths, realizing he was not enlightened enough to just accept God in the heart as his only Guru and guide, he needed someone to be there embodied right in front of him.

He new so many people were already his Guru’s or teacher by showing him so many tasks from day to day in different fields, but there was still something missing, he never had a initiating Spiritual Mater.

There was something not quite right. Something that Books just could never give him that would help him advance to the next stage of Spiritual re-establishment. He needed that personal touch to eulogize the teachings of God he was searching for within his own heart.

So here he was, on his hands and knees in this marvellous old Cathedral praying for guidance, for leadership, for association, for a Spiritual Master. It was during those prayers he heard this low pitched mumbling sound; he looked up and saw a devotee of Krsna standing there looking at religious artefacts.

Something amazing just fell into place for this young boy on that hot Summers day in February 1972, call it intuition or whatever, but he new that God in the heart had answered his prayer for the ‘personal embodied guidance’ of a Spiritual Master that he so desperately needed.

What’s more, the power of God in his heart was a truly amazing experience, that seemed unbelievable, or more to the point, no less than a miracle.

The young Krsna devotee had also left a magazine on the seat; the boy picked it up, found where the Temple was and left the Cathedral knowing exactly what to. The date was February 18 1972.

On arriving at the Temple, he found a festive atmosphere; it was the Appearance day of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Some will say that was a coincidence however, this boy knew from deep within his heart, it was Krsna IN the heart directing him to the most auspicious day of the Vaishnava calendar.

The young boy shaved up that day and moved into the Temple. A week and a half later His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada arrived in Melbourne. With tears in eye, the young boy presented Srila Prabhupada with a beautiful red rose at the Melbourne Airport.

This boy also was previously convinced before entering the Cathedral, that an embodied guru just doesn’t exist. He had now realized that Krsna is in the heart and that He can do anything, even put an elephant through the eye of a needle. Why not? He is God.

This means if one looks deep enough within their own heart, believing it necessary to have an embodied Guru instructing them as a prominent initiating teacher above all others, then Krsna, from within the heart, will direct a bonafide Guru to you, WITHOUT A DOUBT.

Remember, the boy never went searching for Krsna, he just prayed to God within his own heart and God sent him Krsna and Guru, twice.

At the Cathedral where he was directed by a devotee (Sharmananda das) to Lord Caitanya’s Appearance day (where he was asked to play the part of Haridas Thakur in a play) and again when Srila Prabhupada, his Guru, came to Melbourne 10 days later.

The point here is the embodiment of Guru does exist if you want. and Krsna will sent him if you want. It all depends on us. If we are convinced we do not need an embodied Guru, then Krsna from within the heart will not send one, as you desire.

But even if you’re in the faraway corner of the planet, if you REALLY want the help and association of an embodied Guru, then Krsna from within the heart WILL send you one.

You couldn’t get a place further away from the rest of the world than down under Melbourne Australia. This young boy never found Prabhupada, Prabhupada came all the way down there and found him.

Although to be satisfied with the Guru in the form of his books can also be very personal and instructing, I just believe some of us need the personal embodied touch of a Guru as well, simply for the purpose of helping us with their personal association and instructions.

This is because we are really not that advanced to do it on our own just with books. That’s how I feel anyway.

Krsna is in the heart that we must NEVER forget.

God’s representative will come to us in the embodied form if we want, if we pray unconditionally, if we learn to have faith in Krsna in the heart. Why not? Why does it have to be Prabhupada? His embodied pastimes on this planet finished in 1977, you don’t think Krsna also has other great devotees here waiting for us to attract them by our helplessness? Do we genuinely feel helpless and materially exhausted like that boy did in the Church?

The young boy in the story previously found many ‘gurus’ but none of them found him. He eventually saw through them all and just kept praying and new His Guru (Prabhupada), who found him eventually, was the answers to his helpless prayers back then 36 years ago

It’s a question of what one really wants. This may mean that one can only accept Prabhupada through his books because of a world in crisis, struggle, and suspicion in this age of Kai-yuga but remember, that has nothing to do with Krsna in our heart.

The material world is always in crisis but the Guru is ALWAYS one and represents Krishna within our own hearts, and is always somewhere externally here on the planet.

Krishna in our hearts is always accompanying us EVERYWHERE, therefore He can also externally manifest here on the planet in the representative form of the Guru – if you really want. That is up to us. And yes, he will appear just like magic, beyond the juvenile meaning of that word.

Trust Krishna in you heart. You do not think He will manifest externally for you no matter how corrupt and fallen this world is?? He will send you His embodied representative to you if you pray and look within you own heart. It is not magic, it is recognising what real reality is, seeing with clear eyes.<?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:p></u1:p>

The word magic is simply another word for ignorance.<u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>Look within your own heart and Krishna will respond by sending you an embodied bonafide Guru you can trust to initiate you and take you back home back to Godhead.

Krsna WILL send His embodied initiating Guru when we are ready, when we need such association and the personal embodied guidance to help us understand and then initiates us into the guru-shishya parampara

Copied from Gauragopala dasa ACBSP

What does he have special magic couriers that send gurus that are really bona fide? Do they just descend from some other planet? Cause I haven't seen any so far.

Look in your heart because there you will find Krishna, he can do ANYTHING because it is His creation. And what He wants to do the most is please His devotees. If we look in our hearts He will help us

These are nice words and nice ideals -

Where are the 'real' gurus and 'real' disciples?

The one's who dish out and receive formal diksa?

O that's right, it's all about sincerity, isn't it?

Yes, Krsna is in our hearts, if he can put an elephant through the eye of a needle, he can send us a Guru if we want, we just have to ask and pray. If that is what we really want, above everything else, Krishna will send the embodiment of Guru even if it seems there are few around or even none around due to so many bogus gurus.

I have experienced this a long time ago.Krishna is in our hearts, there is ALWAYS His embodied representative on the planet, even if that means one person. If we are really sincere, then Krishna in the heart will send us that one pure embodied Guru to reclaim us regardless of the fallen condition of this world.

If we really want Guru, Krishna WILL send him

If Prabhupada is my guru, he leaves his body so now I don't have a physically present guru. I really desire to have him present (like you say), so, if he doesn't appear, it means I'm not sincere.

There is a little misunderstanding here. What I am referring to is initiation by a Spiritual Master to begin with. Association of devotees is always desired and if one is sincere, then Krsna will send his devotees to associate with us.

Have you not experienced this walking down some street in a big city and there in the middle of millions, you find, or rather, the devotees find you?

Initiation by a bonafide Spiritual Master establishes the link because he accepts us as his disciple. All of us must have an embodied Guru where the Spiritual Master or teacher has accepted us as his disciple. If one is sincere, then initiation by the physical presents of an embodied Guru is a must.

Sincerity has to be always there because of the living entities god given right to have free will, even in Vaikuntha

Just because one has been initiated because of sincerity does not mean they have ‘made it’ No it is not like that, one has to be always sincere because the material world is a dangerous place, as we have seen and experienced.

The most important thing about a Spiritual Master accepting us as his disciple is, he becomes like a father to us. We, through initiation, sign a contract with the Spiritual Teacher that actually gives us no choose after we are initiated -

Srila Prabhupada – “You have taken initiation from me, so actually you are obliged to do this. You have promised, therefore, there is no choice, — you must follow strictly. Otherwise, you are carving your pathway to hell”. Letter to Gauragopala dasa 25th May 1975 Honolulu

To have an embodied initiating Guru is very important, in fact all of us must seek such initiation.

these are some lovely pictures. Do you know a nice website that's devoted to Krishna art?

Also - http://www.puskarpaintings.com/gallery.html

And this one is intereseting - http://www.isvara.org/thumbs10/archivio.asp?page=1

 

Remember, every time Krsna blinks in Goloka, the the birth and death of Brahma, like the one above, is covered. In other words, every time Krsna blinks, a Brahma, whose domain is the material world, dies

So if I want Prabhupada to appear physically and he doesn't I'm not sincere.

Prabhupada's representative you mean? Yes God representative will come to you in the embodied form if you want, if you pray, if you learn to have faith in Krsna in the heart. Why not? Why does it have to be Prabhupada? His embodied pastimes on this planet finished in 1977, you don't think Krsna also has other great devotees here waiting for us to attract them by our helplessness? Do we genuinely feel helpless materially exhausted like that boy did in the Church?

The young boy in the story previously found many ‘gurus’ but none of them found him. He eventually saw through them all and just kept praying and new His Guru (Prabhupada), who found him eventually, was the answers to his helpless prayers back then 36 years ago

It's a question of what one really wants. This may mean that one can only accept Prabhupada through his books because of ISKCON's recent Crisis but remember, that has nothing to do with Krsna in our heart.

The world is always in crisis but the Guru ALWAYS represents Krishna within our own hearts, and is always somewhere here on the planet. Krsna WILL send an embodied initiating Guru when we are individually ready, when we think we need such association and personal embodied guidance.

If we are presently happy with book guidance and worshiping a photo of Prabhupada, then he is your instructing Guru

You are talking as if Srila Prabhupada is not now living. We are just not on the same page. No problem.

Yes, I understand your point, Prabhupada is always with us in our hearts and in his Books instructing those who take shelter of him. The word 'living' is probably not the best word.

But you are still emphasising an embodied guru necessity that doesn't exist IMO.

I just remember the story of the boy who went into the big old Cathedral in Melbourne in 1972. He entered that church in a totally helpless condition, prayed, and begged to God to ‘please’ show him the way. He felt totally useless and lost in this world and believed no one on the planet has any real understanding of Spiritual life. He had experienced so many from Christianity, TM, Yogananda, Kahlil Gibran, Mere Baba and Timothy Leary to Lennon. But something was missing.

What could he do? Who could he turn too as a ‘personal’ guide? He tried so many paths, realizing he was not enlightened enough to just accept God in the heart as his only Guru and guide, he needed someone to be there embodied right in front of him.

He new so many people were already his Guru’s or teacher by showing him so many tasks from day to day in different fields, but there was still something missing, he never had a initiating Spiritual Mater.

There was something not quite right. Something that Books just could never give him, that would help him advance to the next stage of Spiritual renewal.

He needed that personal touch to eulogize the teachings of God he was searching for within his own heart.

So here is was, on his hands and knees in this marvellous old Cathedral praying for guidance, for leadership, for association. It was during those prayers he heard this low pitched mumbling sound; he looked up and saw a devotee of Krsna standing there looking at religious artefacts. Something just fell into place for this young boy, call it intuition or whatever, but he new that God in the heart had answered his prayer for the ‘personal embodied guidance’ that he desperately needed.

What’s more, the power of God in his heart was a truly amazing experience, that seemed unbelievable, or more to the point, no less than a miracle. The young Krsna devotee left a magazine on the seat; he picked it up, found where the Temple was and left the Cathedral knowing exactly what to. The date was February 18 1972.

On arriving at the Temple, he found a festive atmosphere; it was the Appearance day of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Some will say that was a coincidence however, this boy knew from deep within his heart, it was Krsna IN the heart directing him to the most auspicious day of the Vaishnava calendar.

The young boy shaved up that day and moved into the Temple. A week and a half later His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada arrived in Melbourne. With tears in eye, the young boy presented Srila Prabhupada with a beautiful red rose at the Melbourne Airport.

This boy also was previously convinced before entering the Cathedral, that an embodied guru just doesn't exist. He had now realized that Krsna is in the heart can do anything, even put an elephant through the eye of a needle Why not? He is God <?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:p></u1:p>

This means if one looks deep enough within their own heart, believing it necessary to have an embodied Guru instructing them as a prominent initiating teacher above all others, then Krsna, from within the heart, will direct a bonafide Guru to you, WITHOUT A DOUBT.

Remember, the boy never went searching for Krsna, he just prayed to God within his own heart and God sent him Krsna and Guru, twice. At the Cathedral where he was directed by a devotee (Sharmananda das) to Lord Caitanya’s Appearance day (where he was asked to play the part of Haridas Thakur and Kurma dasa as Lord Nityananda, in a play) and Srila Prabhupada coming to Melbourne 10 days later.

The point here is the embodiment of Guru does exist if you want. Krsna will sent him if you want. It all depends on us. If we are convinced we do not need an embodied Guru, then Krsna from within the heart will not send one, as you desire.

But even if you’re in the faraway corner of the planet, if you REALLY want the help and association of an embodied Guru, then Krsna from within the heart WILL send you one.

You couldn’t get a place further away from the rest of the world than down under Melbourne Australia. This young boy never found Prabhupada, Prabhupada came all the way down there and found him.

Although to be satisfied with the Guru in the form of his books can also be very personal and instructing, I just believe some of us need the personal embodied touch of a Guru as well, simply for the purpose of helping us with his/hers personal association and instructions, because we are really not that advanced to do it on our own just with books..That's how I feel anyway. Krsna is in the heart that we must NEVER forget.<u1:p></u1:p>

Gods representative will come to us in the embodied form if we want, if you pray unconditionally, if we learn to have faith in Krsna in the heart. Why not? Why does it have to be Prabhupada? His embodied pastimes on this planet finished in 1977, you don't think Krsna also has other great devotees here waiting for us to attract them by our helplessness? Do we genuinely feel helpless and materially exhausted like that boy did in the Church?

The young boy in the story previously found many ‘gurus’ but none of them found him. He eventually saw through them all and just kept praying and new His Guru (Prabhupada), who found him eventually, was the answers to his helpless prayers back then 36 years ago

It's a question of what one really wants. This may mean that one can only accept Prabhupada through his books because of ISKCON's recent Crisis but remember, that has nothing to do with Krsna in our heart.

The world is always in crisis but the Guru ALWAYS represents Krishna within our own hearts, and is always somewhere here on the planet. Krsna WILL send an embodied initiating Guru when we are individually ready, when we think we need such association and personal embodied guidance

If we are presently happy with book guidance and worshiping a photo of Prabhupada, then he is your instructing Guru

Where did I come from , I mean wheeeere did I come from - really--where did IIIIIII come from - where did i coooooome from -- That's why we're all sleeping.

Wakey wakey.

So, for our Brahma-Vadi friends (no fall avadis or sleep avadis) what will they do now? Maybe demonise these verses as Apa siddhantic or of the Kuyogi Sampradaya?

Or belittle the slokas as simply words to encourage the pious to do Punyas?

Or try to emphasize that these verses are fanciful imagination? Then better yet they may try to minimize these verses as secondary evidence or not authentic or as interpolations? Any way you want to cut it, there is disagreement on this point and the Patanam Slokas, will stand their ground, and support Srila Prabhupada that jivas can fall (patanam) from Vaikuntha/Goloka.

So how can apparently contradictory statements be reconciled? Jiva Goswami explains in his Krsna Sandarbha 152.9that Vedanta Sutra states –

“If there are two contradictory statements in scripture, the first statement should be interpreted so that it does not contradict the later statement.”

So the way to employ this understanding of Jiva Goswami means that for us, the Fallvadis (as the Brahmavadis call us) we accept both ideas i.e. coming from Brahman and coming from Vaikuntha/Goloka.

The jivas coming from Brahman are those jivas who did not get liberated in Brahma’s lifetime and entered the body of Maha-Vishnu. So, when they reappear when Maha-Vishnu begins to expand universes again that occurrence is an origin because it is over a time period of trillions and trillions of years, which is like eternity.

The paradox here is no one never really leaves Goloka, they only think, dream and imagine they do by falling out of sync with the 'eternal present' by adding a past and future to their existence, that is separated from Krishna AND the body they serve Krishna as in Krsnaloka.

What’s more is, it's almost as if the 'awareness' of the living entities nitya siddha body is suspended (at least to those who have fallen due to that falling out of sync with the eternal present)

But actually from the point of view of Goloka, everything is still going on in the service of the Lord in relationships with Krishna and His associates as if they hadn't fallen at all.

The only thing that has changed is the awareness of 'eternal time' has given way to 'divided time' by selfishly adding 'past and future' dimensions that are activated by 'desiring' mundane plans of enjoyment without Krsna'

This places the fallen living entity's 'awareness' outside of Krsnaloka even though they are an eternal resident of Goloka.

They now become completely forgetful and unaware of their 'real' svarupa body (THE REAL UNENDING SELF) because the living entity in now lost in a comatose dream of self importance, imaging they are Lord of the Universe.

As a consequence, they eventually find their way to the mahat-tattva where such dreams are given form and reality (but only a fading or temporary reality) of self-expression within that temporary material creation or mahat-tattva.

So one falls down from Goloka by falling out of sync (pure selfless loving devotion to the Lord) with the 'eternal present' - for this reason it is not a division of consciousness, but rather a division of time.

Actually, when one again becomes aware of their eternal nitya-siddha body and relationship with Krishna, it will be as if their baddha-jiva dreams state never existed. On return to the 'eternal present’, it will be as if they never left because nothing has changed in Goloka. You just may wonder why Krishna is giving you a big huge

Again, in Brahma Vaivarta Purana, Krsna Janma Khanda, chapter 25, verse 98-99 it is stated that

So, if a jiva stays in a universe for the life of Lord Brahma, which is trillions of years, and then goes back to Goloka, then in Goloka, it is only an insignificant moment.

So, in real Transcendental Time (The eternal present that has no past and future as we understand it in the material perishable world) we are here for a very, very short time.

And to put the icing on the cake we will let Srila Prabhupada have the last word on the topic quoting Srimad Bhagavatam.

According to Jiva Goswami in the Tattva Sandarbha the Srimad Bhagavatam is the highest sastra and the most perfect of all evidence.

So, lets hear the verse, as a pure devotee understands it.

In Bhagavad Gita 6.47Srila Prabhupada states in the purport:

Srila Prabhupada – “Every living entity is of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and thus every living entity is intended to serve the Supreme Lord by his own constitution. Failing to do this, he falls down.

The Bhagavatam (11.5.3) confirms this as follows:

Srila Prabhupada – “Anyone who does not render service and neglects his duty unto the primeval lord, who is the source of all living entities will certainly fall down from his constitutional position.”

A Bhagavad-Gita lecture that was given by Srila Prabhupada on 2-21-69, in L.A. (Collected Lectures on Bhagavad-Gita As It Is, Volume 5, pp. 6-7),

Srila Prabhupada quotes the same Bhagavatam verse 11.5.3. He then gives this commentary, which throws even more light on it making it clearer –

Srila Prabhupada – “The Bhagavat says that we are all parts and parcels of the Supreme. If we do not serve the Supreme, then we fall down from our specified place. What is that?

Srila Prabhupada – “If the part and parcel cannot render service regularly, that means it is painful. So any person who is not rendering service to the Supreme Lord, he’s simply giving pain to the Supreme Lord.

Srila Prabhupada – “He’s simply giving trouble. Therefore, he has to suffer…. The same example, Sthanad bhrastah patanty adhah. And as soon as one thing is very painful, just like the government keeps all these painful citizens into a prison house. Collect together. ‘You live here, you are nonsense, you criminals live here. Don’t live in the open state.’

Srila Prabhupada – “Similarly, all these criminals who have violated the laws of God, who have simply given pain to the Lord, they are put in this material world.

Srila Prabhupada – “And, sthanad bhrastah, he falls down from the specified place….So we have fallen down. Being against the principles of God consciousness, we are fallen down. So if we want to revive our original position, we must be placed again in that service attitude.

Srila Prabhupada – “The best thing is to revive our original Krsna consciousness and be engaged in the service of the Lord. That is the natural life and that is possible in the spiritual sky or the Goloka Vrndavana.”

At the end of the lecture a question was asked: “Why are you teaching about Krsna Consciousness?

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have forgotten the service of Radha and Krsna, therefore you have become the servant of Maya.’”

So, in conclusion the Mahajanas have talked about agatya patanam, falling from Vaikuntha/Goloka. Vyasadeva, who compiled the Puranas, has presented slokas about patanam (falldown)

So has Bhaktivinode Thakura and Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura mentioned fall and no fall of the jiva. Srila Prabhupada has quoted Srimad Bhagavatam to stress the point about freewill causing the jiva to fall, so one cannot say that ISKCON devotees are the only ones who have spoken of the fall of the jiva from Vaikuntha and Goloka.]

Note: The bracketed [ - ] was inspired by the writings of Bahushira dasa, Bhanu Swami, Dr. Santosh Kumari (Sanskrit Gold Medalist) and Dr. Sudershan Kaushik (Sanskrit Gold Medalist) with a few extra comments from myself.

Devotee - "Is a pure devotee eternally liberated and if so is he at any time a conditioned soul?”

Srila Prabhupada –“We are eternally conditioned (nitya baddha), but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated (nitya-siddha)? You are not eternally conditioned (nitya baddha). You are eternally liberated (nitya-siddha), but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it only APPEARS that we are eternally conditioned (nitya baddha).

Because we cannot trace out the history or the date when we became conditioned, therefore it is technically called eternally conditioned. Otherwise, the living entity is NOT actually conditioned (nitya-baddha).

A living entity is always pure(nitya-siddha). But he is prone to be attracted by material enjoyment and as soon as he agrees to place himself in material enjoyment, he becomes conditioned (nitya-baddha), but that is not permanent.

Therefore, a living entity is called on the marginal state, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. These are very intelligent questions. And I am very glad that you are putting such intelligent questions and trying to understand it. It is very good”. Letter to Aniruddha dasa, Los Angeles 14 November 1968

 

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Well, there are many who want to know the truth and this is for them as Srila Prabhupada wanted

When the jivas misuse freewill in Goloka, Vaikuntha it is not like a case of newly transformed envious jivas hanging around. They are instantly covered and ousted from the Lord’s realm.

Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura’s purport to text 44 of Brahma Samhita states –

“When he forgets his service of Krsna he is at once deflected by the attracting power of Maya in this world.”

On a morning walk in Vrndavana, 9-13-75 Prabhupada said: “He has given you little freedom’ you can use it. Yathecchasi tathaa kuru, Krsna says in Gita (18.63), ‘Whatever you like you do.”

Some devotees seem to think that this discussion of the “Fall, no fall of the Jiva” started after Prabhupada’s disappearance but that is not a fact.

In the early 1972, Madhudvisa had to deal with the issue in Australia while travelling around preaching on a Double Decker travelling Temple that I was also personally on and the Crow and Tal Fruit Logic letter is a result of that exchange with devotees who thought we came from the Brahmajyoti. The letter has typed parts, Prabhupada also added his own handwritten notes, and he signed the letter by hand. Madhudvisa has the letter.

In the early 1970’s, Siddhasvarupananda Swami was preaching that the jivas came from the Brahmajyoti and Srila Prabhupada told him not to preach that in his temples.

In a letter to Caturbhuja Dasa, L.A., 5-9-73, Prabhupada wrote him -

Srila Prabhupada – “Your last question ‘How is the soul degraded (by lust, anger and greed) when it is transcendental to the body?

Srila Prabhupada – “Doesn’t that imply that the soul has changed? ‘No. The soul never changes, but due to his tinyness, he may become forgetful of his relationship with Krsna”.

Srila Prabhupada – “The spiritual quality of the spiritual spark has not changed but he has forgotten his spiritual nature, bewildered by the imperfect desire to become equal or greater than Krsna.”

Most of the verses from Brahma Vaivarta Purana are showing how a jiva can go to Vaikuntha or Goloka but unless one’s devotion is FULLY developed he will fall back to this material world due to lack of chit (knowledge) strength.

Nevertheless, eventually he/she will return and stay permanently in Vaikuntha/Goloka, regaining his/hers authentic svarupa bodily identity that is actually permanently there in Goloka even if one forgets this fact.

Such comments seem inconceivable, but are they? Actually they are easily understood when one ‘realizes, by dent of bhakti, what the eternal present actually means’. In other words, our perpetual body is permanently locked, protected, and secured in the eternal present because there is no portal of past or future for it to ever leave. Therefore if there id fall down, it is only consciously via ones thoughts, imaginings and dreams, never as ones original body.

Now that wasn’t too difficult to understand was it?

Those verses in shastra that state that one does not fall from Vaikuntha are referring either to jivas who fell originally and are now reinstated, and generally won’t fall again or to those jivas who never fell to begin with.

Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur clarifies the point in Sri Caitanya’s Teachings, p. 101

“The position of the jiva IS a part of the tatastha-sakti that can enjoy, cease to enjoy, and go back to his original position”.

And Srila Prabhupada says in a similar vein on a morning walk:

Paramahamsa - So we can come to the spiritual world and return?

Prabhupada - Yes.

Paramahamsa - Falldown?

Prabhupada - Yes…. He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. (Cheviot Hills Golf Course-5-13-73, L.A.)

Srila Prabhupada stressed the verse: Mahaajano yena gatah sa panthaa - one must follow in the footsteps of the Mahajanas

Mahabhaarata, Vana Parva, 313.117. And who is speaking these verses from Brahma Vaivarta Purana?

They happen to be Mahajanas.

Narayana Rsi is talking to Narada Rsi about what Yamaraj spoke to Savitri (Mother of the vedas). Brahma also joins in later. So, their statements carry weight.

So, for our Brahma-Vadi friends (no fall avadis or sleep avadis) what will they do now? Maybe demonise these verses as Apa siddhantic or of the Kuyogi Sampradaya?

Or belittle the slokas as simply words to encourage the pious to do Punyas?

Or try to emphasize that these verses are fanciful imagination? Then better yet they may try to minimize these verses as secondary evidence or not authentic or as interpolations? Any way you want to cut it, there is disagreement on this point and the Patanam Slokas, will stand their ground, and support Srila Prabhupada that jivas can fall (patanam) from Vaikuntha/Goloka.

So how can apparently contradictory statements be reconciled? Jiva Goswami explains in his Krsna Sandarbha 152.9 that Vedanta Sutra states –

“If there are two contradictory statements in scripture, the first statement should be interpreted so that it does not contradict the later statement.”

So the way to employ this understanding of Jiva Goswami means that for us, the Fallvadis (as the Brahmavadis call us) we accept both ideas i.e. coming from Brahman and coming from Vaikuntha/Goloka.

The jivas coming from Brahman are those jivas who did not get liberated in Brahma’s lifetime and entered the body of Maha-Vishnu. So, when they reappear when Maha-Vishnu begins to expand universes again that occurrence is an origin because it is over a time period of trillions and trillions of years, which is like eternity.

That origin is what the Upanishads describe.

We accept the understanding that the jivas that have left their service in Vaikuntha/Goloka, due to free will, come here to the material world.

In all of this discussion one important point to understand is that to Krsna, in Krsna’s transcendental time, or reckoning, we are here in this material world for one or two seconds (NOT EVEN THAT BECAUSE NOTHING IS SEEN AS MISSING WITHIN THE ‘ETERNAL PRESENT)’.

How is this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Guru can show you the way out of

the place of material dreams

 

 

 

 

The dreaming Maha Vishnu, His mahat-tattva dream-creation of material universes is where our mundane dreams go to be given form and temporary reality for as long as we choose to forget Krsna.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973 ...

When Prabhupada CLEARLY says 'you are already there in the spiritual sky, he clarifies that by saying relationships with Krsna’, meaning our svarupa body is eternally there, but our memory of who we are, is presently covered by the eternal presence polluted by our added creation of past and future. This immediately places ‘our awareness’ within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu known as the perishable material creation.

Srila Prabhupada – “Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)

Srila Prabhupada: "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand”. In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971

This means there is NO evolution of consciousness in regards to our original perpetual bodily identity because that body already eternally exists, we simply have to regain the memory of who we really are.

We simply have to once again regain the 'awareness 'of who we really are.

We do not grow consciously out of a plainsheet of dormant consciousness and evolve to reach Krsnaloka, but rather, are always are in the process of regaining or reestablishing who we are originally.

Srila Prabhupada does not mean we spring to consciousness from a so-called dormant state as Narayana Maharaj and Sridar Maharaj teaches. The dormant state in the Brahmajyoti they refer to was attained AFTER we we left the material world as impersonalists.

So this means, as Srila Prabhupada has always told us, that long, long, long, long before being in the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, we were in the material world and before that were aware of who we really are as our 'svarupa' body with Krishna within Krsnaloka.

Note: The bracketed [ - ] was inspired by the writings of Bahushira dasa, Bhanu Swami, Dr. Santosh Kumari (Sanskrit Gold Medalist) and Dr. Sudershan Kaushik (Sanskrit Gold Medalist) with a few extra comments from me.

[ - It is stated in the Skanda Purana 4.95.37 it is stated that if one breaks Ekadasi one can fall from Vaikuntha.

In the Brahma Vaivarta Purana, Krsna Janma Khanda, Ch. 111, Verse 4, and 5, Radha is speaking to Mother Yasoda:

Of the five types of knowledge, what shall I say to you?

I speak the best of all devotional knowledge please listen.

Oh good lady do not become fearless by the advantage of Sri Krsna, an imperfect yogi (bad ascetic) can also possibly fall from Goloka.

Also, in Krsna JanmaKhanda, Ch. 126, Verse 59, Sri Radha is speaking to Sri Krsna:

Oh Lord, after reaching extreme height, one certainly falls. The violence of the Vaishnavas results in misfortune.

In the Brahma Vaivarta Purana, Prakriti Khanda, Ch.27, verse 59, Yamaraja is speaking to Savitri (Mother of the Vedas)

Whoever in the month of Kaartika offers a lamp of ghee to Hari enjoys in Vaikuntha (Hari Mandira) for as many years equivalent to the number of seconds (palas-a pala is 24 seconds) for which the lamp is burnt.

Prakriti Khanda, Ch.27, verse 60 -

Born again, he certainly attains Vishnubhakti. He becomes immensely rich, endowed with clear vision and glory.

Prakriti Khanda, Ch.27, verse 74 -

He, who performs the vrata of Krsna Janmastami, is relieved of the sins of hundreds of births. There is no doubt about it.

Prakriti Khanda, Ch.27, verse81-

Whoever celebrates Rama Navami in Bharat enjoys in Vaikuntha for seven Manvantaras.

Prakriti Khanda, Ch.27, verse82 -

He then takes birth again and obtains devotion to Rama for certain; he then becomes the best of those who control their senses and a great follower of dharma.

Prakriti Khanda, Ch.27, verse90 - 94

He who makes a Rasamandala on the full moon of Kartika, and makes forms of a hundred Gopas, a hundred Gopis, and worships Krsna along with Radha in a stone form and worshiping Him with a sixteen items, will live in Goloka for the life span of Brahma.

Returning to Bharata, he will certainly attain bhakti to the Lord and His mantras. Quitting his body and returning to Goloka, he attains the form of Hari and becomes one of His attendants free from birth and death. He never falls again.

Prakriti Khanda, Ch.27, verse95 -

Whoever observes Ekadasi in either phase of the moon enjoys in Vaikuntha for the life span of Brahma.

Prakriti Khanda, Ch.27, verse96

Coming back to Bharata, he will certainly attain bhakti to the Lord. He will again go to Vaikuntha and not fall, meaning he/she goes back to his/hers original (meaning the form they were created within the ‘eternal present as, which is paradoxically beginningless and endless) position in Vaikuntha and never falls again- na tasya patanam bhavet).

Prakriti Khanda, Ch. 26, verse109 -

He, who recites the name of Vishnu or gives it to someone in Bharat, enjoys in Vaikuntha (Vishnuloka) for as many Yugas as names he has recited.

Prakriti Khanda, Ch. 26, verse109 – 110 -

Tatah - thereafter; punar-iha-agatya - again here having come; Vishnubhaktim - devotion to Vishnu; labhet -will attain, get; dhruvam - certainly, surely; yadi-if; Narayana-ksetre -in Narayana region; phalam -merit; results; kotigunam -ten million times; labhet - will attain Returning to Earth he attains bhakti to Vishnu for certain. If the jiva does this in a place of Narayana, he obtains ten million times the merit (result).

The Sanskrit words that are used in these verses of Brahma Vaivarta Purana makes it very clear what is being said about the Jivas actually falling from Vaikuntha, Goloka and then taking birth on Earth. Finally, they return to Goloka or Vaikuntha leaving Earth behind.

Select verses are given again and again so the reader can get a bird’s eye view of the repetitive phrases that drives the points home so clearly.

Krsna Janma Khanda, ch.111, verse 5, the word patanam meaning fall, or falldown is used.

The question may be asked who falls down? The kuyogi, imperfect yogi, the bad ascetic, the one who has left devotional service. And who are they? They are the jivas who misuse their freewill.

That is why the word sambhavet is used. It means liable or possible however, some jivas don’t misuse their freewill.

Those who choose to misuse their freewill fall to the material world and they are therefore imperfect because they gave up their perfect position as nitya-siddha.

Bhaktivinoda Thakura describes in Jaiva Dharma in Nitya Dharma, part 5 –

“The imprisonment of the jiva began when the jiva forgot his position as the eternal servant of Sri Krsna. This forgetfulness is the original offence of the jiva and is the root of all the jiva’s subsequent offences.”

In Srimad Bhagavatam, purport of 3.26.7Srila Prabhupada states -

Srila Prabhupada – “Whatever the material energy dictates, the conditioned soul does. He has no responsibility. He is simply the witness of the actions, he is forced to act that way due to his offence in his eternal relationship with Krsna.”

And what is that original offence?

The answer is giving up the Lord’s service.

In Srimad Bhagavatam, 5.14.1, Prabhupada states in the purport -

Srila Prabhupada – “When the pure soul wants to give up the Lord’s service to enjoy the material world, Krsna certainly gives him a chance to enter the material world.”

In Tokyo on April 20, 1972 Prabhupada stated –

Srila Prabhupada – “He has fallen means he has given up the service of Krsna.”

Giving up the service to Sri Krsna is due to freewill which leads to more forgetfulness due to the choices one makes due to that free will.

There are other aspects of freewill, but giving up service means giving up our love to Krsna, or we want to serve in another way that is not compatible in the spiritual world.

Krsna does not force you to love Him. You have to desire it willingly and that is the topmost use of freewill, this is what freewill means, to voluntarily serve Krsna. The living entity is given that ‘choice’ because without it, there is no meaning to individuality or being a marginal living being.

The other angle is that by misusing our freewill we make the wrong decision and Maya immediately covers us AFTER the living entity chooses to manufacture their existence without Krishna.

Freewill is perfect and imperfect and yes it is an inconceivable truth (Acintya Tattva) It is perfect in the aspect of allowing one to freely choose to endlessly increasingly serve and it is imperfect and not suitable for Goloka when we choose to ignore Krsna. This is one reason why the Lord creates the Mahat-tattva (material creation)

The perfect aspect of this imperfection of the jiva is that you can go back to serve Krsna again. Srimad Bhagavatam 6.11.25 confirms this -

“Oh my Lord, O Supreme Personality of Godhead, will I again be able to be a servant of Your eternal servants who find shelter at Your lotus feet? Oh Lord of my life, may I again become their servant so that my mind may always engage in the loving service of Your Lordship.”

Twice Srila Prabhupada uses the word bhuyah (again), stressing the point.

:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by theist - If I can attain this vision for real then I am free to acknowledge Caitya-guru in any of His other manifestations as spirtual master. This includes Srila Prabhupada's current disciples or anyone the Lord chooses to empower.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

SRILA PRABHUPADA - "God is within your heart. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam. God is not far away. If you are sincere, God sends you a spiritual master. Therefore, God is also called caitya-guru, the spiritual master within the heart. God helps from within and from without”.

How I understand this -

If one is sincere, that sincerity will attract a Spiritual Master to guide one. If we have firm faith that Krsna is in our hearts, then why not believe He will help us climb out of this 'stagnated' mundane material creation by sending us His beloved representative??

Some today just worship Prabhupada, however eventually, due to the fact Guru is one in purpose and simultaneously within the heart representing Krishna, then we may down the tract, find some nice devotee association and be attracted to THEIR love also for Prabhupada

it is inherent in human nature to personally serve, associate and love someone you respect as a fine example of a great devotee. This is what Bhakti is.

Don’t get me wrong; it is all right to worship Prabhupada, as the only Guru if one wants until such a living Guru reveals himself.

We must also develop the faith that Krsna in the heart then will direct us to the good association of advanced living devotee ‘down the tract’ to 'instruct' us and initiate us into the parampara.

Krsna embracing His beloved devotee, to the surprise of the devotee, who has absolutely no memory of even leaving Krsnaloka, on the devotees return from the material world

In Brhad Bhagavatamrta by Sanatan Gosvami, it is written that once, as Krishna and the cows were returning from the Vrndavana forest at the end of the day, a boy had just attained spiritual emancipation and entered Vrndavana as a cowherd boy [sakhya rasa]. Seeing His long lost servant, Krishna embraced him and both of them fainted in ecstasy.

All of Krishna's other cowherd friends were astounded, thinking,

"What is this? Krishna has lost His senses by embracing this newcomer! How is it possible?"

Then, as all of the cowherd boys looked on astonished, Balarama came to Krishna's relief and somehow managed to rouse Him.

Then Krishna addressed His friend with great affection:

"Why did you stay away?

Why have you been living away from home for so long?

How was it possible for you?

How could you bear My separation?

You left Me, and you have been passing lives after lives without Me? Still, I know what trouble you took to return to Me. You searched for Me everywhere, and went to beg from house to house, and you were chastised by many, ridiculed by many, and you shed tears for Me. I know all these things. I was with you. And now, after great trouble, you have again come back to Me."

I notice Hindus up 157%!! It's fantastic, where ever you go you can talk about Krishna to everyone. Suburban Clayton is nick named 'New Mathura'

because of so many Hindus. Ten years ago it was all Vietnamese

Now I also have many Punjabi friends, 'satsriakal' to all the Punjabis out there, love your cooking and namaskara to all..

My friend Sai works at 'crossways ISKCON prasadam Restaurant in the City every Tuesday ($5 bucks ALL you can eat and so scruptious and well cooked) and many a times I have spoke with his family back in India. These days ALL my friends are mostly Indians who follow Krishna.

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Svarupa

Interesting well thought out realizations. Someone who has been around as long as you can only see Prabhupada as there Guru. I understand that.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by theist No Svarupa that is not my point at all.

The point I am trying to say is Caitya guru is the one universal guru and someone like Srila Prabhupada is His manifestation.

If I can attain this vision for real then I am free to acknowledge Caitya-guru in any of His other manifestations as spirtual master. This includes Srila Prabhupada's current disciples or anyone the Lord chooses to empower.

So I am pro-embodied guru. But he MUST be realized and not just appointed or voted in by ecclesiastical body.

But just as valid is the vani from a realized soul in book or tape form.

I am trying to say we need to take advantage of Guru in the form that is already before us.

Everyone can approach Caitya guru right now in their heart.

We need to stop mystfying the process of finding Guru.

He is in our heart and in the external world also in a variety of forms and the only way to recognize Him, wherever He is, is by His grace.

So to find Guru within or without or both one must pray.

Such a simple concept. Why all fuss and debates year after year.

This is Krishna consciousness 101 IMO

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

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By Danavir Goswami

Generally worshipers of Siva are Mayavadis or impersonalists who desire to become one with the Supreme. Brghu Muni pointed out that Siva followers become atheists and thus condemn themselves:

Hari means Visnu and His expansions. Of course one meditating on Lord Siva may become eligible to attain the abode of Lord Siva called Mahesa-dhama, however pure devotees of Krishna prefer to attain Goloka Vrndavana.

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada initiated his disciples into the chanting of the maha mantra: Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare—he never encouraged disciples to chant Siva mantras.

Siva and other demigods can not equal Lord Visnu and chanting their names does not give the same result as chanting the names of Visnu.

By equating the names of Siva with those of Lord Krishna one becomes implicated in committing the second offense to the holy name:

It is very risky to adopt a process of chanting that was not handed down through the disciplic succession of Vaisnavas (sampradaya-vihina ye mantras te nisphala matah).

Those who are attracted to Lord Siva would do well to follow his own example by exclusively worshiping and glorifying Lord Krishna. Hare Krishna.

HARE KRSNA!

What does it feel like to be reprimanded from the guru???

The mercy of such servere chastisement is that you NEVER EVER forget you spiritual Master even if you try, no matter what helpless fallen condition you are in

 

Exactly, those who try and preach a one and only Guru show a lack of understanding and small mindedness, completely against Gaudiya Siddhanta and the teachings of Srila Prabupada AND the Gosvamis.

 

These are usually people who have never spent time in Braja and seen the mood that is prevalent there among various Vaishnavas.

 

A devotee must have only one initiating spiritual master because in the scriptures acceptance of more than one is always forbidden.

There is no limit, however, to the number of instructing spiritual masters one may accept.

Generally a spiritual master who constantly instructs a disciple in spiritual science becomes his initiating spiritual master later on.

Srila Prabhupada said, we would have something like this -

"The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, the spiritual master of Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self."

why does it have to be just one guru? I have several gurus in my life and manage to find a good harmony between them.

Good point however, it is advisable to have a stand out instructing living Guru, 'a person' above all others who links you with loving effection, like a son or daughter with their father, to the Parampara.

Origin Of The Soul"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) people assembled here on these forums ; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."

DEVOTEE 2 – “I knew Peter a little bit. Of course he couldn't accept another guru, his faith was already there in Srila Prabhupada.

Like I have said, I accept the diksa ceremony as being necessary for temple altar work. No problem if the guru uses it to draw the disciple closer. Prabhupada after all was trying to create a brahminical class and he instituted formal Deity worship. He brought Vaisnavism in a traditional "Hindu" style.

I am against the way people have come to view the ceremony however. people think they have become Brahmans due to the ceremony when in fact the focus should be on developing the qualities characteristic of a Brahmins that we read about in the Gita. Both can work together but the qualities are indispensable and compared to those qualities the ceremony lacks real importance.

I believe cbrahma feels the same way and it is his style that people react to. That and his anti-GM stance. I believe he will come to soften that in time. Anyway, I don't share his feelings on that front.

DEVOTEE 3. - "The whole perception of my being anti-diksa because I don't capitulate to the religious arrogance of 'I got a fire sacrifice so I'm in' mentality is, alright I'll say it. As far as I'm concerned, that's what GM is. And I refuse to copy those incontrovertible quotes again".

DEVOTEE 2 -"No need. I heard them all long before you ever posted them. Time place circumstance is the way I look at it. As for myself I am quite happy being a lone camper".

DEVOTEE 4 - "I find it both hilarious and sad that all these devotees who deify Prabhupada have such unequivocal criticism towards the men he himself chose as the leaders of his society, and entrusted them with giving diksa to both current and future devotees in Iskcon. Unbelievable!

DEVOTEE 3 -"Ahhh. So, we judge the guru by his disciples. Poor NM and Sridhar Maharaj. Of course, your hidden premise, that Prabhupada intended these men to be gurus on their own behalf, is a lie. BTW, it makes more sense to deify (treat as good as God) a pure devotee, than a formal ritual (formal diksa).

DEVOTEE 4 - "Not really, you just missed my point completely, and on purpose too. Point is that these 11 were not just ordinary disciples. These were first leaders hand picked by Prabhupada, and later the people he himself chose to carry on with initiating new people and be 'initiating gurus' of one sort or another - that part is indisputable. Can you judge the guru by the appointments he makes? It is not quite the same as 'judging gurus by their disciples', is it?

DEVOTEE 1 – “No you can’t judge a Guru like that in fact, Prabhupada once said that even if just one pure devotee is reclaimed, then his mission is successful. Anyway, my main question is, how do we find a genuin bonafide Guru, were do we look?”

DEVOTEE 6 - "An interesting ISKCON pastime I heard recently in Vrndavana about a hippie in 1966 that used to travel around in Ken Kesey’s psychodelic bus dance group, travelling around America handing out Kool-Aid drink laced with LSD.

Somehow, one of Srila Prabhupada’s original Srimad Bhagavatam’s was in a small library section on the bus and read by such future devotee’s like Mohanananda dasa who was only 14 or 15 years of age at the time.

One young hippie on that bus however, was not satisfied in just reading the book; he was determined to find the author of this wonderful Srimad Bhagavatam and was prepared to travel all around India until he found this amazing Sadhu.

When they reached New York, Kesey and the Pranksters visited Leary in Millbrook, NY, at his psychedelic retreat called "The International Federation for Internal Freedom."; it was founded when Leary was fired from Harvard University for doing research with his students on the hallucinogenic drugs LSD-25 and Psilocybin.

This young hippie had had enough of LSD, realized God can NEVER be found in a pill, and decided to go on a spiritual quest to India in search of the ‘swami’ who wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam.

He then decided to leave the merry pranksters and leave for India; he bought a ticket and was on his way to the Kennedy airport. On the way however, he had sometime to spare and went by Tompkins Square Park to see what the acidhead hippies were up to.

As he went by in the taxi, he saw this big crowd and all the hippies dancing, he was curious and told the taxi driver to stop, then went over, investigated, and found an elderly Sadu leading the chanting of Hare Krishna.

He watched with some curiosity and wondered if the Sadhu he would eventually find in India, who wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam, would be like this Sadhu. Anyway the kirtan stopped and this Sadu began reading from the same book he was reading on ken Kesey’s Bus.

Now this young hippie just was even more determined to seek out the writer of the Srimad Bhagavatam seeing this Sadu also reading it. Eventually the reading stopped and this young hippie went over to the Sadhu and said

‘I am also reading this book and I am now just on my way to the airport to fly out to India, I am determined to look all over India for this Sadhu’.

The elderly gentlemen Sadhu chuckled to himself and said to the young hippie

‘I am the translator of this book the beautiful Srimad Bhagavatam, you do not have to go to India, I am here in New York”

The young hippie was ecstatic and had tears in his eyes. Then Srila Prabhupada, the elderly Sadu said ‘Just see, if you are completely sincere and genuine, then you do not have to find Guru, he will find you”

DEVOTEE 7 - "When you think about it, Srila Prabhupada came to the West because there was a deep longing among the 50s and 60s LOST youth for answers to what in the hell is going on within the material world.

Why are we here?

Where did we come from?

Where are we going?

I Know I had that desire to find the answers. One evening while listening to George Harrison singing 'My Sweet Lord', I happened to watch Srila Prabhupada arriving at an airport surrounded by loving devotees on TV, I new at that moment that this holy man is my Spiritual Master.

The fact is he came to the West because we all were desperately seeking the truth.

SRILA PRABHUPADA - "God is within your heart. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam. God is not far away. If you are sincere, God sends you a spiritual master. Therefore, God is also called caitya-guru, the spiritual master within the heart. God helps from within and from without. Everything is thus described in Bhagavad-gita.

This material body is like a machine, but within the heart is the soul, and with the soul is the Supersoul, Krsna, who gives directions. The Lord says, "You wanted to do this; now here is the chance. Go and do it." If you are sincere, you say, "Now, God, I want You." Then He will give you directions. "Yes, now you come and get Me like this."

This is His kindness. However, if we want something else, that is all right. We can have it. God is very kind. When I want something, He is in my heart directing me and telling me how to have it. So why should He not give directions on how to have a spiritual master?

First of all we must again be eager to revive our God consciousness. Then God will give us a spiritual master". Back to Godhead #67, 1974: "An Awareness of What is Best and Most Beautiful

DEVOTEE 8 -"Disciple: Once I remember John Lennon asked you, "How will I know who is the genuine guru?" And you answered, "Just find out the one who is most addicted to Krsna. He is genuine."

SRILA PRABHUPADA - "Yes. The genuine guru is God's representative, and he speaks about God and nothing else. The genuine guru is he who has no interest in materialistic life. He is after God, and God only. That is one of the tests of a genuine guru: brahma-nistham. He is absorbed in the Absolute Truth.

In the Mundaka Upanisad it is stated, srotriyam brahma-nistham: [MU 1.2.12] "The genuine guru is well versed in the scriptures and Vedic knowledge, and he is completely dependent on Brahman." He should know what Brahman [spirit] is and how to become situated in Brahman.

These signs are given in the Vedic literature. As I said before, the real guru is God's representative. He represents the Supreme Lord, just as a viceroy represents a king. The real guru will not manufacture anything.

Everything he says is in accordance with the scriptures and the previous acaryas. He will not give you a mantra and tell you that you will become God in six months. This is not a guru's business.

A guru's business is to canvass everyone to become a devotee of God.

That is the sum and substance of a real guru's business. Indeed, he has no other business. He tells whomever he sees, "Please become God conscious." If he canvasses somehow or other on behalf of God and tries to get everyone to become a devotee of God, he is a genuine guru".

 

 

Unless Krishna agrees to be seen, you cannot see. It is not possible. You cannot force Him to be seen by you. No, that is not possible. Svayam eva sphuraty adah. He... When He likes,

 

He'll be seen by you, not that you can force Him. You cannot say that "Now I am qualified. Krishna must come, and I'll see Him." That is not possible. We are never qualified unless Krishna agrees to be seen by you.

 

 

 

 

People are understanding. They are becoming devotee. So we have to go through the right channel. Then we'll know Krishna.

 

And as soon as you know Krishna as He is, your life is successful. That is the aim and object of Krishna consciousness movement -- simply to help the people to know Krishna.

 

This is the only business, because as soon as you know Krishna, your life is successful in which way, eh? The success is tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [bg. 4.9]. This is success.

 

This body should be the last acceptance of material body. That is success. Otherwise, if you continue, tatha dehantara-praptih

 

If you cannot do something which is hard for you, you do anything for Krishna under the direction of spiritual master, you'll get perfection.

 

It is not that "I have to do this. I have to do that." No. Krishna's service is manyfold. If one is unable to take one kind of service, the spiritual master can give him another kind of service.

 

But both the services are accepted by Krishna.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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(Srila Prabhupada lecture, Mayapur, March 12, 1976)