HerServant

 

patram puspam phalam toyam

yo me bhaktya prayacchati

tad aham bhakty-upahrtam

asnami prayatatmanah

 

If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it.

Thanks for your nice presentations on this forum. Proper perspective is a raRE thing these days.

 

You mention the rosary. Once, I was in a remote situation, no contact (in fact, careful avoidance) with ISKCON, no ability to procure japa mala, yet I had victims of my preaching effort who wanted to begin japa meditation.

 

So I gave them a rosary. I mentioned the Pancha Tattwa mantra should begin every round, so the cross and the 5 beads that lead up to the bead circle make up the krsna bead on japa mala. The bead circle on the rosary make up 54 beads, (five sets of ten hail marys and a lords prayer between each set), so to go around the bead circle twice makes exactly 108.

 

It was a time and place emergency, but it worked, and the marion christians who began to chant the mahamantra on their rosaries were greatly impressed with the math.

 

There are many who love Lord Jesus Christ who are naturally inclined to favor vaisnavism. However, it takes the right combination of who is chanting and who is hearing to make this work. The vaisnava preacher should have ABSOLUTELY no tinge of party spirit, must have no sectarian concern. Bhjagavad gita affirms this, that one surrender to Krsna while simultaneously giving up all varieties of religion. The lover of the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ must also give up sectarian ideas, as Lord Jesus Himself told his disciples. They were in anxiety about the competition, and exclaimed to Lord Jesus: "There are others who speak similarly, what should we do?" Lord Jesus Christ responded, "Those who are not preaching against us are with us."

 

So a true follower of Lord Jesus Christ with be naturally inclined to be favorable to a true vaisnava who has understood Bhagavad Gita. Unfortunately, as Srila Bhaktivinode has stated, party spirit blindness destroys all potential for success in spiritual life. A so-called vaisnava religionist hates christians, and (anti)christians hate vaisnavas, and neither can even be in the same room let alone have a reasonable conversation concerning spiritual values.

 

Hare Krsna, thanks again for your contributions here, ys, mahaksadasa

I cry at your feet, as I read this, my eyes filled up with tears. I have looked for 20 years for the vaisnavas. I visited ISKCON temples throughout all of the US and found much anger and fear at the mere mention of Jesus' name. I wanted to just share that I, a catholic, had become so enlivened, so filled with joy, by Srila Prabhupada's books (BG, SB), but my desire to spread joy was not recieved.

Tonight I will chant my rosary as maha mantra, just as you taught, as a humble offering for you and your associates.

I am your servant. Please accept my humble obeisances and association.

Hare Krsna! Jaya Yahu Shua (Jesus)!

Fr. Bede Griffiths writings I've read, and recommend:

 

Vedanta and Christian Faith

 

The Cosmic Revelation

 

Essential Writings (a compendium)

 

He was a great soul.

 

I didn't understand the Bible at all until assimilating the concepts of Vedanta, particularly Dvaita-vedanta or Krishna Consciousness.

I feel the same way .. Jesus' life and the meaning in the bible "opened up" in the light of the Vedas. Jaya Srila Prabhupada !

But daily am working toward this type of meditation. I am sure such meditation in practice (with rosary) is so special. A deep spiritual practice. Promoting love of God in the heart.

You understood perfectly what I tried communicate in my earlier post. This is exactly the conception .. the realization and what I am experiencing.

I think the rosary is actually reveals the nama-rupa in the lila. There is one quote from one of the Vaisnava spiritual masters .. I am sorry I can't find it at the moment, but it teaches that the mantra is also the "way" to nama rupa realization.

I have encountered similarly from Srila Prabhupada's teachings. And my appreciation of catholicism has grown by his grace. I think from having some contact with Jesus since birth he will always remain in my heart. Actually on my small altar here I have his image with the sacred heart. This image is my earliest recollection of Christ. I hope to meet him. The perfect human being.

You have said something VERY important I think. Jesus appeared in a dream in my youth. As I stumbled through this lifetime, I had forgotten this dream. What a tremendous loss. Then, somehow, through reading BG As It Is .. I remembered! "Do this in rememberence of me" ... "Think only of Me" .. it is the same.

We are to send our hearts love to Him .. we can approach at His feet as the BG teaches, but the prayer, the intent must come from the heart. That is how we can meet Him. He is there in the Lila.

I have had amazing experiences chanting maha mantra while meditation on Jesus lila. Nama rupa revelation is associated with chanting mantra.

Often on the forums I have read criticism of catholocism. But I am sure if they new the depths of it's internal mysticism, such critics would see great similarities rather than difference. I guess only those who have had the grace to see internal life will understand this, otherwise only externals will be prominent.

 

Right. I understand. The church has two components as does any on this planet .. the internal and the external. The devotees on all sides (faiths) are not too interested in the external. We want to enter the "cave of the heart" .. the depth of the church has always been attacked by even church members. St. John of the Cross was thrown in jail by his bishop as an example. The desert fathers ran from the organized church in the 2nd century because of all of the external fighting, etc.

Some have debated on the forum recently that Srila Prabhupada was only being diplomatic when referring to Jesus. But I know this is not true, for he was an advanced soul, who was seeing things much deeper than the external platform.

Srila Prabhupada said many things about Jesus and they have to be taken together. Some of the people saying these things are anti christs. I am not using that term lightly . There are Srila Prabhupada direct disciples that are 180 degrees opposite one another on this point. You don't have to do much research to see that the Srila Prabhupada's movement came under the attack of demons. Of all the planets in the universe, we live on the one that crucified God's son. Those people against Jesus .. they are the antichrist.

And I agree with you...I am also deeply attracted to Gaudiya Vaisnavism. It's depth of personalism is appealing. To hear of God's (Krsna's) qualities is pleasing to the heart. Within the tradition there is a real treasure which many in the world may possibly not have guessed is there.

Totally fantastic! Now why would anyone want to keep it from Catholics and Christians by preaching anti christ sentiment along with the nectar of Srila Prabhupada and the SB, BG, etc.?

Srila Prabhupada gave us the "good news" and fortunately I can received without sectarianism! The SB and BG and Srila Prabhupada himself does not belong to one group.

Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

To the nice spirit posting as Her Servant. I have a feeling you are long aware of this snippet from a letter to Sivananda in April of 68 in which case it's posted for others but if it is new to you I am sure it will bring you joy.

 

Jaya Yeshua! Jaya Krsna!

Hari Bol!

Yes I have seen this quote before. It opened my eyes to the Baladeva, Servitor Lord theology of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. When I read this, I took it to mean that Jesus is the incarnation of Sankarshana, the shelter of all jivas.

Therefore, I am trying, or working on letting go of conceptions. That is, letting go and letting God. His names and forms are without number.

Krnsa ki jaya! Hare Krsna!

It is really interesting about Father Bede, I never knew this. I read onetime a theology graduates thesis on Father Bede, and some of his Bhagavad Gita translation. It appears his understandings were coming from the Advaita school. But strangely enough I could still see Personalism in his thought. Which surely comes from his Catholic understandings. So this is very interesting that he was reading Caitanya Caritamrta and the Bhagavatam in his later years. Surely he was a great soul who loved God.

..

 

.. I have not read alot about catholic monks who lived the renounced order in India. But am very interested and would love to know more of this. Especially the path of mysticism and contemplative way of life. The Gaudiya philosophy is appealing because it allows for internal life and development of spiritual emotion. Something I am sure that is also developed internally in the practicing contemplative catholic.

 

Peace be with you.

Yes. I was told directly by the Sannyasi that gave Fr. Bede the Vaisnava literature. Also, it is not know that Fr. Bede blessed and concecrated a murti of Jesus and of Mary and gave them as gifts to the HK temple at New Vrndavan ! The murtis, at least one was on the altar with Radha and Krsna in New Vrndavan for sometime. Then all of the attacks and contraversies and falldowns occurred. I don't know the details. I was not there at the time, but was told the stories by devotees who were.

His Holiness also told me of his conversations with Fr. Bede and found Fr. Bede VERY interested in this branch of "Hinduism".

I can also say, the in the Ashram at Shantivanam, Fr. Bede established as part of daily prayer, the chanting of the maha mantra in the form:

Hare Christa Hare Christa Christa Christa Hare Hare Hare Yesu Hare Yesu Yesu Yesu Hare Hare ..

If I am not mistaken this is still chanted there in Shantivanam today.

For Fr. Bede, due to his personal devotion to Jesus, the study of advaita philosophy did not challenge his faith. This was not the case of Abishiktananda (Fr. Henri LeSaux). Abishiktananda wrote of a personal crisis in his faith because he could not fully reconcile being "Hindu" and being "Catholic". But for Fr. Bede, there was not this problem.

Yes...in Father Louis' (Thomas Merton) Asian Journal he mentioned Sri Caitanya briefly in only two paragraphs. The philosophy is so deep that I am sure Merton would have loved it. It is really interesting about Father Bede, I never knew this. I read onetime a theology graduates thesis on Father Bede, and some of his Bhagavad Gita translation. It appears his understandings were coming from the Advaita school. But strangely enough I could still see Personalism in his thought. Which surely comes from his Catholic understandings. So this is very interesting that he was reading Caitanya Caritamrta and the Bhagavatam in his later years. Surely he was a great soul who loved God.

 

I have also found these to be complimentary. I am no longer a practicing catholic but feel closer to Jesus since coming in contact with GaurangaKrsna consciousness. I have not read alot about catholic monks who lived the renounced order in India. But am very interested and would love to know more of this. Especially the path of mysticism and contemplative way of life. The Gaudiya philosophy is appealing because it allows for internal life and development of spiritual emotion. Something I am sure that is also developed internally in the practicing contemplative catholic.

 

Peace be with you.

I am a practicing catholic but I don't take advantage of the sacrament of confession nearly enough. Yet, I am deeply attracted to Gaudiya Vaisnavism. The Vaisnava perspective has illumined the great depth in catholicism. For example, we have many saints teaching us to consecrate the smallest and most ordinary activities of our daily lives to God. St. Teresa of Jesus (the Little Flower) is an example. Gaudiya Vaisnavism is preaching the same with but with the depth of philosphical principles that accompany this "consecration". Therefore, when I chant the rosary and meditate on the mysteries, I am coming in contact with Mary's rasa. I did not understand the right approach before contacting Vaisnavism.

Therefore, Srila Prabhupada has given me the greatest gift.

Ummm... Many Christians do argue that Jesus was not a Jew at all, but an Aryan. Some having studied imprints on the shroud of Turin, claim he didn't have Jewish features or skull shape etc..

Jewish? Aryan? I thought Jesus is a Krsnalokan ?

Dear Y.K.

I agree with you. I was just trying to make a point that we have a mix of people on the planet. The sattvic, rajasic and tamasic and combinations thereof. The rajasic and tamasic mix will read the scriptures according to their desires. Philosophically, I enjoy the "Hindu" eastern philosophy more than the western greek. Hinduism has expanded my view of Christianity. As it should.

.. I just wanted to make clear that exclusionism and fundamentalism are not only coming from the west. Its all over India and in many (ugly) forms and not only recently. ( e.g. Bhakti Tirtha Swami was chased away from Jagganath Puri decades ago. )

Again .. overall, I agree with you. Please accept my friendship.

So personally being a Gaudiya devotee I do not feel this need to separate to such an extent. I am comfortable in my faith and comfortable with those of other faiths. So for example if Lord Shiva's devotee approached me and said, "all glory to Lord Shiva". I would respond the same. Or if a christian approached me and said, "all glory to Lord Jesus". I would respond the same. And if a devotee of Lord Gauranga approached me and said, "all glory to Mahaprabhu". My heart would reply, "Jai...all glory to Mahaprabhu!". A special intimacy would be felt internally with this Gauranga devotee. This is not separation, but intimacy in realization.

 

Little by little I have traversed the same road. I am a Jesus Bhakta and I see Him in everything, even if I am chanting "Om namo shivaya" or Hare Krsna .. Jesus is there.

Dear HerServant, I grew up as catholic. And much appreciate your understandings. Some of these catholic sannyasins are very broad and open in their understandings. I have particularly enjoyed reading Thomas Merton's (a cistercian monk) Asian Journal. His contact was mainly with Buddhism amd impersonalism. I so much wish he had longer life and been able to explore more and more of Vedic culture. It is personalities like this that I admire very much.

 

yes .. as are many Vaisnava sannyasis who are also broad and open in their understandings. I was told by a Vaisnava Sannyasi from India that Swami Bede Dayananda (Fr. Bede Griffiths) was reading Caitanya Caritamrta and Srimad Bhagavatam in the year or two before his passing. The reality is that Merton and many Catholic religious had no real exposure to vaisnava cult.

For me .. these two (catholic and gaudiya) need to see each other as long lost brothers .. and recognizing each other, embrace and weep tears of joy.

Again, I'm amazed at the simplicity, largeheartedness and depth of Hinduism/Sanatana Dharma, that accepts and allows one to worship

and come to God through the way that is most suitable to him, whilst

still suggesting the easier path through bhakti and devotional love.

It is the Vedic culture. As long as it is Vedic. The horizon is very wide.

Its like an ocean. Deep and wide. Not a pond or a lake.

Maybe because its not just a religious group or a closed minded sect

that forbids its followers to get out of the boundary walls of their

own maths or ashrams...

You do realize that a non Hindu cannot enter into the Jagganath Puri temple, right?

However for true seekers, the door of the Truth is open in both directions.

'I came as a stranger and took me in. Their activites impressed me as a life of all for one, and one for all, proclamining both the dignity of labour and the greatness of the spiritual quest.' It is for this experince that many people from different religions and life situations come to this Ashram where they find peace. 'I once stayed with Cistercian monks. They are votaries of divine love, of poverty and chastity. Their monastery was a veritable garden. There was a sweet silence pervading the whole atmosphere. I still live under the charm of their ciells. It would be may ideal to found such an institution.' - Swami Dharmanad Giril, sanyassi of the Ramakrishna Mission

The ashram where Swami Dharmanad Giril lives is a Catholic ashram and he lives among them.

See:

http://www.vagamon.com/kurisumala/kurisumala.htm

Many Catholic monks have also taken sannyasi vows from brother Hindus sannyasis.

So in the above example, we have a "Hindu" Sannyasi living with "Catholic" monks, and careful study of the above web link will reveal that we have "Catholic" monks taking "Hindu" sanyasi.

So, don't fear and despise Satan (or Maya for that matter). Rather, love God.

Fear is darkness. No doubt. Love of God is supreme! But, it in the spirit of Vaisnava Christian Fellowship/Friendship it may benefit some to understand the history of satan from both Vedic and proto Christian sources.

I quote from the following web site:

http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/bhaktiyoga/questions.htm#3

God, the Supreme Person, has no equal. Although there are powerful beings in the cosmic divine and demoniac hierarchies none of them can be an equal opponent to God. Personalities in the Vedic thearchy sometimes thought to be an analogy to Satan (Siva, Durga, Yamaraja) are Lord's servants, not enemies. Personality of Kali, ruler of this age (yuga-purusa), is a sin personified but even he is a part of God's plan. All of them are allowed to punish those who break the cosmic order (dharma).

The Judeo-Christian concept of Satan is based on two sources - one coming from Persia and another from Egypt.

Jewish religion is thought to have been widely influenced by Zoroastrianism during the exile of the Jewish tribes after the destruction of the First Temple (586 BC) and the consequent Babylonian captivity. In Babylonia the Israelites were exposed to, and adopted, new ideas, e.g., the personification of evil (Satan) and the resurrection of the dead.

"The original Priesthood of Set in ancient Egypt survived for twenty-five recorded dynasties (ca. 3200-700 BC). It was one of the two central priesthoods in predynastic times, the other being that of HarWer ('Horus the Elder'). Unification of Egypt under both philosophical systems resulted in the nation's being known as the 'Two Kingdoms' and in its Pharaohs wearing the famous 'Double Crown' of Horus and Set.

"Originally a circumpolar/stellar deity portrayed as a cyclical counterpart to the Solar Horus, Set was later recast as an evil principle by the cults of Osiris and Isis. During the XIX and XX Dynasties Set returned as the Pharaonic patron, but by the XXV Dynasty (ca. 700 BC) a new wave of Osirian persecution led to the final destruction of the original Priesthood of Set. When the Hebrews emigrated from Egypt during the XIX Dynasty, however, they took with them a caricature of Set: 'Satan' (from the hieroglyphic Set-hen, one of the god's formal titles)." [Murray Hope, "The Temple of Set FAQ"]

Horus's principal enemy - originally Horus's other face or "dark" aspect - was this "Set" or "Sata", from which comes "Satan". Horus struggles with Set in the exact manner that Jesus battles with Satan, with 40 days in the wilderness, among other similarities.

Bhakti Ananda Goswami:

In Egypt, this great religious and social trauma is associated with the dark ages of the Anti-Helios Hyksos, who corruptly identified Ketu / Setu with the Universal Savior, Baal. The Hyksos were not the enslaved Semitic heroes of the Jewish Exodus story. This is one of the worst mistakes historians have ever made. It is purely based on the racial assumption that, because the Hyksos were Semites, they somehow had to be the heroes of the Biblical Epic. In fact, all the evidence indicates that it was under the Hyksos that the Semitic and 'mixed multitude' worshipers of God Helios were enslaved.

Eli-Yahu is Helios / Hor-us, whose cosmic enemy is Ketu / Setu / Chata (Hebrew 'sin') with his minions, the rahus. Srimad Bhagavatam (8.9) narrates the story of Rahu-Ketu's (Satan) casting out of heaven. Half of Rahu-Ketu stays in the celestial realm becoming the cosmic force of destruction. Other half, Setu / Satan / Ketu, cast down (Satan falling like a lightning from heaven - Luke 10:18), was the 'father of lies' and the distortion of words (cata-chresis), the cause of celestial sun and moon-eating eclipses, inauspicious asterisms, comets (Sanskrit 'ketavah'), meteors and floods etc. (catastrophe, cataclysm), the dis-integration of all things (catabolism), and cause of possession / seizure / madness (catalepsy), disasters, disease and death.

In the Egypto-African and Helleno-Semitic traditions Setu or Satan is associated with catabolism and the Hebrew word 'chet' or 'chata' is used for 'sin' 195 times in the Hebrew scriptures. In Biblical Hebrew, evil, wickedness or destruction is expressed by the letters 'resh-ayin (usually now translated 'r-a') over 100 times. Satan is also called the evil dragon, which is Ketos in Greek! 'R a' or Chet (Setu or Ketos the Evil Dragon / Anti-Christ) is the Biblical catabolic Destroyer and Evil-Sin personified Satan. For instance, as late as the New Testament, he is envisioned by the apostle John as the cosmic dragon lying in wait to devour the Messiah as He is 'born' from the celestial Virgin. This is obviously the sun and moon devouring Rahu-Ketu, enemy of Visnu and the devas.

In Egyptian Setu is also associated with 'pp' or 'sin', which is clearly the Sanskrit word 'papa' for 'sin'. This arch-foe of God should not be confused with Shiva or the delivering-by-annihilation form of God. As the Enemy of beauty, truth, goodness, life, health and order, Rahu-Ketu and his rahu-minions are combated by the Lord in His various salvific descents (avatara). Thus as Ananta Charaka The Great Physician, Lord Baladeva descends as the Ayur Vedic Savior Asclespius or Jesus Christ (Serapis in Egypt, Yakushi-ji in Japan etc.) to defeat Rahu-ketu / Satan and relieve the suffering of all beings, restoring life, health and good order (dharma) to His creation.

In both the East and West Satan is depicted as a cosmic dragon who devours the sun and moon. As such he is Ketos or Drac in Greek, Ketu or Drug to Tibetan Buddhists and Satan the Dragon to Jews and Christians. By confounding the Enemy of life, truth, order, beauty and health, etc., with the Lord of life, truth etc., the Hyksos worshiped 'anti-Christ' in the place of Christ. They created the false Baal-Dionysos-Christ, and changed the capital of Egypt from one of the traditional Heliopolitan centers to the very capital city of Setu / Ketu (Avaris). Breaking with Heliopolitan tradition, they plunged Egypt into a 'dark age'.

Semitic Hyksos in Egypt, this left-hand tantric related deviant group of Eli / Heri - Baal worshipers, militarily conquered and devastated the Heliopolitan civilization of Northern Egypt. They moved the capital of Egypt to Avaris (yes, spelled like 'greed'), the city devoted to Setu (Rahu-Ketu / Satan), the catabolic, sinful (hebrew chata = sin), cosmic enemy of Heri. There they demonically associated the semitic second person of the Godhead Baal with the Egyptian personified evil, Setu.

Originally in the ancient Mediterranean Proto Catholic complex, Brahma and Siva were considered forms of Heri-Asu / Eli-Yahu, and Brahmaism and Saivism were not separated religions. Saivism, as separated Yahu-Baal / Dionysos worship, split from the sattvic tradition of Eli-Yahu / Helios / Heri- Asu and developed on a separated track after the great Egyptian regional trauma of the Hyksos period. During that time tamasic Baal-Yahu worshipers corruptly identified Setu-Raah (Ketu-Rahu, Satan) the arch fiend and enemy of Hari and the devas with Baal-Dionysos. This historical rise of the cult of the anti-Baal or anti-Christ led ultimately to the name Baal being dropped from common use as a name of Yahu, and to development of the separated left-hand tantric tamasic traditions of Siva, Kali (Sekmet in egypt) and Murugan worship.

Setu = Ketu, Chata = Ketu / Satan

Raah (Hebrew 'sin' / evil) = Rahu

. Bless those that curse you and horribly use you. This is real Christianity and why I doubt there are more than a handful of real Christians on the planet.

 

"but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness" -- 1st Corinthians 1:23

To almost everyone on planet earth, the Cross of Christ is a "stumbling block or foolishness". Who wants the cross? I can say .. "I want to follow God, but not in suffering. Please God, give me bliss, etc."

However Krsna wills that we are meant to encounter the depth of Jesus' compassion and love in the heart of Jesus on the cross.

Then we cannot bear for Him to endure the sins of the world. We see His true sorrow, which is the loss of our relationship with God.

Your servant.

"Until we see Him as He IS, our hearts will remain as hard as stone."

 

Though true in an absolute sense, once we get a glimpse, our hearts immediately begin to soften, and there is much time that passes as we get to know him better, and never do we actually see him as he is, because he is eternally fresh and unknowable in total but through the unfolding of our relationship we eternally find out new wonderful things about each other.

 

During this time in the beginning our hearts grow softer and more sensitive to him in others, his presence in our heart, his voice in the heart of our mind, and there is a gradual progression. We advance. Gradually.

 

And so also does our ability to tolerate, fully forgive, and have non-sentimental spiritual compassion grow.

 

It is not an all or nothing, despite the popular misconception that there is some magic moment and we are perfectly saintly forever amen. Those who put forth such doctrine are actually furthest from the truth, from what I can see.

 

Seeing how Jesus truly was on the cross seems to consist of a lifetime of gradual and deepening realizations.

 

Just my take, as well.

 

Hare Krsna

Amen.

"prahladas casmi daityanam"

Among demons, I am Prahlada -- BG 10:30

We can only see Jesus as He IS on the cross through the Heart of Mary:

He appeared as youthful innoncent little boy, having a pierced blue body and revealing a deep red wound as if His Heart was torn open.

His head was bowed having countless effulgent rays of compassion radiating from His face. His mood was that of Prahlada .. a little boy in the hands of His torturers that were His very own dearest relations.

His sorrow and anguish was that of a child who was being killed by relatives that forgot their relationship to Him. As if a father, brother, mother was killing their child, yet, not knowing that He is their very own. The Child however looks back and sees His dearest relation, .. a father, brother ... and in agony He says: " No .. no .. wait .. please do not do this .. I love you...don't you know me? .. it is Me .. I am your very own"

His forgiveness is completely childlike, not intellectual. He can only see you as His dearest relation. He is anguished and cannot understand that you cannot see/remember your relationship with Him. He cries out "Father forgive them, they know not what they do".

He forgives you out of purest childlike innocent love for you.

Until we see Him as He IS, our hearts will remain as hard as stone. This is why Krsna chose to send Jesus and why Jesus wished to descend ... to shatter the stone of pride in the heart with unfathomable love.

"In the Bible too, we have Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, and Jnana Yoga all similarly dealt with. We find St. Peter and St. James emphasizing Karma Yoga, the path of works,.." We have St. John emphasizing love, or what we call Bhakti Yoga, with Sraddha, that is faith, and other ingredients of Bhakti Yoga. An thirdly we have St. Paul laying the utmost stress on Jnana Yoga." Vedic Metaphysics (chap 16, p259-260) - Jagadguru Sankaracarya Sri Sri Bharati Krsna Tirthaji Maharaja

 

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1

 

"And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth." John 1:14

 

St. John tells us "the formula" of how we can read and understand "The Word". The wisdom of the Vedas is not expressed so much as philosophy but is contained in the Life of Christ (Jesus Lila).

The Bhagavad Gita 2:62-63:

"While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises. From anger, delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost, one falls down again into the material pool."

"While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops,

Matt. 26:14-16

"Then one of the Twelve--the one called Judas Iscariot--went to the chief priests and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over. "

Matt. 26:23 Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me."

Judas, contemplating the objects of the senses, even as the Lord is in his very midst is full of greed. Judas envies the Lord and Judas considers himself equal by dipping his hand in the bowl with Jesus. His desires prompt him to trade Jesus for personal gratification and therefore is lust (greed) personified.

We are like Judas when we sin. The sin starts with the desire of personal sense gratification, even at the expense of handing over the Lord to tormentors.

and from lust anger arises

Matt26: 65-67

"Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?"

"He is worthy of death," they answered.

Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him"

From anger, delusion arises and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost

Luke 23:4

Then Pilate announced to the chief priests and the crowd, "I find no basis for a charge against this man."

Matt 27:12-26

When he was accused by the chief priests and the elders, he gave no answer. Then Pilate asked him, "Don't you hear the testimony they are bringing against you?" But Jesus made no reply, not even to a single charge--to the great amazement of the governor.

Now it was the governor's custom at the Feast to release a prisoner chosen by the crowd. At that time they had a notorious prisoner, called Barabbas. So when the crowd had gathered, Pilate asked them, "Which one do you want me to release to you: Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?" For he knew it was out of envy that they had handed Jesus over to him.

While Pilate was sitting on the judge's seat, his wife sent him this message: "Don't have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him."

But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed.

"Which of the two do you want me to release to you?" asked the governor.

"Barabbas," they answered.

"What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called Christ?" Pilate asked.

They all answered, "Crucify him!"

"Why? What crime has he committed?" asked Pilate.

But they shouted all the louder, "Crucify him!"

When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. "I am innocent of this man's blood," he said. "It is your responsibility!"

All the people answered, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!"

Then he released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified. "

Pilate is so bewildered he first acquits Jesus. Then hands him over to Herod, then releases a murderer before giving Jesus over to tormentors and executioners. He does not remember, he cannot discern. The crucifiers and tormentors, the bystanders and onlookers are confused, deluded, bewildered, hard hearted, angered, covered in total darkness. Once one gives up their will for sin, the calamity on the body ensues.

The body is scourged with passions, the mind is tortured with thorns, the body becomes a burden, for which we labor to carry to our death, until it becomes dead tree , an instrument of execution, on which we crucify our Lord.

one falls down again into the material pool.

"So they took Jesus, and carrying the cross himself he went out to what is called the Place of the Skull, in Hebrew, Golgotha. There they crucified him, and with him two others, one on either side, with Jesus in the middle." - John 19:17-18

"Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. Rather, he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, coming in human likeness; and found human in appearance, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross.

Because of this, God greatly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." - Galatians 2:6-11

All glories to Ya'hu shua, the Ananta Sesha Naga, the Maha Sankarshana, shelter and saviour of the entire cosmic manifestation.

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Let's help each other step up and walk on a higher level.

namaste

I am a newcomer and I thank each of you for your welcoming, sincere, pleasant, and Holy Spirit.

We are all in this (lifetime) together, and I can use all the help I can get.

Our hearts will rejoice in the hearing of Krsna's dealings with our sisters and brothers! Hear everything about Him, every grace given, every mercy bestowed, every mellow experienced, of every tear shed in separation. From every person, from every place, from every town, from every tradition, in every age.

"Then they said to each other, "Were not our hearts burning (within us) while he spoke to us on the way and opened the scriptures to us?" Luke 24:32

Haleluiah!

 

This should give a clue to all men aspiring to discipleship about how to look at all their mothers out there, from their blood Mother to Sisters, cousins, and neighbors.

 

No-one pleases the father except through service to his Son who is the bonafide Spiritual Master, and no man pleases the Spiritual Master unless the women in his own sphere of influence are well sheltered and cared for emotionally and physically, and this alone will inspire them to spontaneously reveal the devotion and love of a divine mother to you as they will see you as a true and worthy servant of the son of Krsna the Father.

 

Hare Krsna

Hari Bol! Ave Marie! Ma Durga Ki Jaya!

And only Divine Mother decides which children are invited to Her Divine Child's playgroup!

ys.

This is what the Bible says.

Is Vedic Knowledge present in the Bible?

The following quotes are excerpts from "Vedic Metaphysics" by Jagadguru Sankaracarya Sri Sri Bharati Krsna Tirthaji Maharaja published by Motilal Banarsidass press. Vedic Metaphysics is a compilation of lectures given in 1958 in the United States by Jagadguru Sankaracarya Sri Sri Bharati Krsna Tirthaji Maharaja.

"In the Vedic Sanantana Dharma, as we call it, the eternal verities are described. We have what we have called the Karma-marga, or Karma Yoga, Bhakti-marga or Bhakti Yoga, Jnana-Marga or Jnana Yoga. Well, the corresponding technical terms may not be in constant use in Christian theology, but the three are represented among the Christian theologians, the Christian evangelisits, etc. from the very beginning. We have the example Christ himself dealing with all three paths. Christ is the Master, the Saviour whom the evangelists learnt from, and whos message they carried into the world. But the evangelists were persons who had their onw predilections, their own individual personal equations, and that added a different shade to their teaching." (chap 6, p80 pp4)

"In the Bible too, we have Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, and Jnana Yoga all similarly dealt with. We find St. Peter and St. James emphasizing Karma Yoga, the path of works,.." We have St. John emphasizing love, or what we call Bhakti Yoga, with Sraddha, that is faith, and other ingredients of Bhakti Yoga. An thirdly we have St. Paul laying the utmost stress on Jnana Yoga." (chap 16, p259-260)

Now from the Gospel of John:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1

"And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth." John 1:14

St. John tells us "the formula" of how we can read and understand "The Word". The wisdom of the Vedas is not expressed so much as philosophy but is contained in the Life of Christ (Jesus Lila).

In catholic teaching, we are called to "enter into the Divine Mystery" of Christ's life through the sacraments and through prayer. The prayer we have is the Holy Rosary. We are called to meditate on the mystery while reciting the "Hail Marys and Our Father".

John Paul II encyclical on the Rosary states:

"It can be said that the Rosary is, in some sense, a prayer-commentary on the final chapter of the Vatican II Constitution Lumen Gentium, a chapter which discusses the wondrous presence of the Mother of God in the mystery of Christ and the Church. Against the background of the words Ave Maria the principal events of the life of Jesus Christ pass before the eyes of the soul. They take shape in the complete series of the joyful, sorrowful and glorious mysteries, and they put us in living communion with Jesus through – we might say – the heart of his Mother. At the same time our heart can embrace in the decades of the Rosary all the events that make up the lives of individuals, families, nations, the Church, and all mankind. Our personal concerns and those of our neighbour, especially those who are closest to us, who are dearest to us. Thus the simple prayer of the Rosary marks the rhythm of human life”.(5)"

" But the most important reason for strongly encouraging the practice of the Rosary is that it represents a most effective means of fostering among the faithful that commitment to the contemplation of the Christian mystery which I have proposed in the Apostolic Letter Novo Millennio Ineunte as a genuine “training in holiness”: “What is needed is a Christian life distinguished above all in the art of prayer”.(9) Inasmuch as contemporary culture, even amid so many indications to the contrary, has witnessed the flowering of a new call for spirituality, due also to the influence of other religions, it is more urgent than ever that our Christian communities should become “genuine schools of prayer”.(10)

The Rosary belongs among the finest and most praiseworthy traditions of Christian contemplation. Developed in the West, it is a typically meditative prayer, corresponding in some way to the “prayer of the heart” or “Jesus prayer” which took root in the soil of the Christian East."

Now we are equipped to read the Bible in Light of the Vedas, and understand Vedic knowledge/wisdom contained in Jesus Lila. The Vedas are contained in the Life of Christ. The knowledge is revealed through "Mystery" by contacting Jesus through the heart of Mary .. rejoice! .. Jesus teaches us in direct relationship to His Person, .. Himself !!!

Thank you for welcoming me! Your association is very important and helpful to me.

Good to have you posting here, HerServant.

Many Christians that come on and post are spamming fanatics like justasking ..IMO, they're just asking to be banned.

justasking a "Christian"? .. is that what he is? I think maybe an evangelical or fundamentalist, but not a Christian ..

I think Mahaksadas summed it up nicely:

" No one can recognize a vaisnava except another vaisnavas, .."

Regarding justasking , who knows ?.. if (he) sticks around .. maybe he'll get saved

ys.

The evidence of the Holy Spirit working in a souls life is the fruit. By their fruit ye shall know them.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is described in Galatians 5:22; ‘…the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control…’

By correct vision and perception we can see this fruit working in the hearts of all true followers of God. The Spirit is Universal and cannot be boxed in by material/sectarian designation. The Hindu who has drawn close to God feels overwhelming bliss (joy) and peace. Is kind and gentle. Is patient, full of self-control and generous in dealing.

The same fruit can be seen working in the sincere Muslim and Christian also. The same encounter with God’s Spirit occurs in all these faiths. The same awakening, what is called by the Christian, a born again experience, is encountered in all these faiths, by one who has surrendered his will to God. One who has encountered this awakening experience within, knows it well. And for some, it cannot be expressed in words. But the knowing of being awakened is deeply felt.

Christ’s admonishment to not blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to not blaspheme what I have just described. For it is the very working of God, amongst all his children. To not see this in the workings of the faith of others is not the sin. But the sin is to see the workings of the Spirit in others, and call it of Satan.

 

Words of Christ: Luke 12:10; 'And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.'

Luke 12:10 commentary from the Oxford Annotated Bible…’Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is attributing the genuine work of the Holy Spirit to the forces of evil rather than to God.’

By their fruit ye shall know them…false teachers teach sectarianism and hatred. Intolerance of other faith, and class their fellow human beings as followers of Satan. False teachers lead the innocent into their own devices. And the innocent repeat the same mistakes as their teachers. Preaching all that is not of the Spirit.

Thank you!

Yes, the reformation produced a new branch of Christianity that soundly rejected the GSS traditions of the Church.

 

What I was more referring to...even though a GSS tradition existed as the structure of pre-reformation Christianity, this had long been expunged of anything resembling Vedic thought, if it was ever present at all. Certainly the Christianity of those times did produce great saints, but the basics of Christian doctrine were much as they are today...devoid of the truths found in the Vedic line.

 

Calvin and other shapers of Protestant ideology had only this gutted tradition to work with, and therefore were starting from a point of basic ignorance...when ideas such as original sin, innate human depravity, and predestination are considered, it is very obvious that they are speculations born of a "poor fund of knowledge".

"GSS tradition existed as the structure of pre-reformation Christianity, this had long been expunged of anything resembling Vedic thought, if it was ever present at all."

Not exactly, but you have a point. For example, starting as far back as the desert fathers, they ran into the desert to escape the religionists in the early church (2nd century). Those zealots are gone but the desert father's writings remain as the church treasure. This trend continues throughout the entire history of the church. St. Francis of Assisi is a good example. He waited on the steps of St. Peters as a beggar asking for an audience with the pope. The pope refused. But St. Francis waited anyway. The Pope then had a dream "the beggar" holding up the structure of the crumbling church. Then he was given an audience, and then the pope confessed his forgetfulness of Christ, repented and approved St. Francis movement.

The catholic church has needed constant rescue by the saints throughout its history. This is stated within the church itself in various writings. That the church has many wounds on the body of Christ, but the saints and the sacramnents are the church itself. In fact, that the real catholic church is hidden in Mary the Divine Mother.

Now where will the next saint who rescues the church emerge? Maybe a vaisnava will save the real church? I don't know.

As far as vedic knowledge .. vedic knowledge is definitely there .. just not recognized.

My mother and the nuns taught me from the earliest age, my purpose on earth is: "To know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him"

That is a fact. Just last week, as I sit in prayer, I realized this is the 3 principle margas taught in a simple sloka. Jnana(know), Bhakti(love), Karma(serve). More on this in my next post.

I do agree though .. there needs to be more explanation and the church has failed on this many regards. Krnsa has a plan to help us and it is still unfolding.

(removed)

How have our hearts become so hardened?

A very advanced Sanyasi told me that Jesus is teaching ecstatic union in separation on the cross in the moment he says "Eloi Eloi", "My God My God, why has Thou forsaken me? "

Only John and Mary the Divine Mother, and the other Marys were present at the cross, and therefore, only they saw Jesus as He Is on this cross. They are at the cross because only purest love of God could go there. All of Jesus' other disciples ran away. But those lost in Love of God .. they could not bear to leave Him for one second, ... they can pay any price and endure the greatest sorrows because nothing could be worse than being apart from Jesus.

Therefore Mary reveals Him to us. To see Him as She sees Him on the cross, .. :

He appeared as youthful innoncent little boy, having a pierced blue body and revealing a deep red wound as if His Heart was torn open.

His head was bowed having countless effulgent rays of compassion radiating from His face. His mood was that of Prahlada .. a little boy in the hands of His torturers that were His very own dearest relations.

His sorrow and anguish was that of a child who was being killed by relatives that forgot their relationship to Him. As if a father, brother, mother was killing their child, yet, not knowing that He is their very own. The Child however looks back and sees His dearest relation, .. a father, brother ... and in agony He says: " No .. no .. wait .. please do not do this .. I love you...don't you know me? .. it is Me .. I am your little one .. no"

Then Jesus on the Cross transformed into Ananta Sesha Naga. The crucifix was Ananta Sesha Naga Himself. His eyes were fixed, resolute fiery yet compassionate. The eyes expressed the resoluteness for fulfilling and finishing this sacrifice. Time stops. The entire cosmic manifestation rests on Him.

Love,

ys

And dont bother hitting me with that only begotton stuff, not unless you can explain why he teaches us to say "OUR Father"..

 

Dear Mahak maharaja,

Kindly accept my humble obeisances. I am no one and nothing. I am a poor seeker just trying to find my way home. I confess I do not know everything but I come here for sincere association. I know you to are sincere by way of your writings and post. So let us first start our association by loving each other. We may even both have the same realization, but our words fail us.

Besides, how can words even serve us when speaking of Him?

"O my Lord, when will my eyes be decorated with tears of love flowing constantly when I chant Your holy name? When will my voice choke up, and when will the hairs of my body stand on end at the recitation of Your name?"

I try to speak from direct realization as much as possible. My perspective on Jesus as "Only Begotten Son" is that Jesus as Jiva Tattva is in fact shelter of all Jivas. This is proclaimed in John Chapter 15.

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine grower.

He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and everyone that does he prunes so that it bears more fruit.

You are already pruned because of the word that I spoke to you.

Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing." - John 15:1-5

Chaitanya-Charitamrita, Adi-Lila, Chapter 5

Text 4:

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, is the fountainhead of all incarnations. Lord Baladeva is His second body"

Purport

"Lord Sri Krishna, the absolute Personality of Godhead, is the primeval Lord, the original form of Godhead, and His first expansion is Sri Balarama."

Text 5

"They are both one and the same identity. They differ only in form. He is the first bodily expansion of Krishna, and He assists in Lord Krishna’s transcendental pastimes."

Purport

"Balarama is a svamsa expansion of the Lord, and therefore there is no difference in potency between Krishna and Balarama."

Text 10 Purport

"Sri Balarama is the servitor Godhead who serves Lord Krishna in all affairs of existence and knowledge."

Text 41 Purport

"Sankarshana, the second expansion, is Vasudeva's personal expansion for pastimes, and since He is the reservoir of all living entities, He is sometimes called jiva."

Text 45

"There is one marginal potency, known as the jiva. Maha-Sankarshana is the shelter of all jivas."

Hence the purified jiva is one with the Jiva and exhibits all of the qualities of the shelter of all Jivas, just as a branch is part and parcel of the Vine. The Son and sons are one. Just as Guru is One. Only begotten

PRABHUPADA'S LECTURES SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM 1972 720424SB.TOK

"...The only worthy son was Jesus Christ. You can interpret it like that, because he was giving service to the Lord, to the father. He brought the message of father. So our interpretation is like that, not that God has got only one son, but he is the only worthy son..."

PRABHUPADA'S LECTURES SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM 1972 721002SB.LA

"...Simultaneously one and different. Just like in the Bible also, Jesus Christ is claimed as one with God, but at the same time different. As son, he is different. As representative of God, he is one. That is the philosophy, perfect philosophy..."

---

Therefore, Shakti avesya avatar, is servitor of Krsna as Vine or branch. These are the same. The Vine and branch, .. there is simultaneous oneness and difference also. The branch is jiva tattva and the Vine is Jiva Tattva, The Shelter of All jivas, the Maha Sankarshana. No way to the Father but by the Son.

Your lowly servant.

"So if anyone loves Krsna, he must love Lord Jesus Christ also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus Christ he must love Krsna. If he says, "Why shall I love Krsna? I shall love Jesus Christ," then he has no knowledge. And if one says, "Why shall I love Jesus Christ? I shall love...", then he has also no knowledge. If one understands Krsna, then he will understand Jesus Christ. If one understands Jesus Christ, you'll understand Krsna." -Srila Prabhupada conversation with Alan Ginsberg, May 12, 1969

Mark 12:1-9

"He began to speak to them in parables. "A man planted a vineyard, put a hedge around it, dug a wine press, and built a tower. Then he leased it to tenant farmers and left on a journey.

At the proper time he sent a servant to the tenants to obtain from them some of the produce of the vineyard.

But they seized him, beat him, and sent him away empty-handed.

Again he sent them another servant. And that one they beat over the head and treated shamefully.

He sent yet another whom they killed. So, too, many others; some they beat, others they killed.

He had one other to send, a beloved son. He sent him to them last of all, thinking, 'They will respect my son.'

But those tenants said to one another, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.'

So they seized him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

What (then) will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come, put the tenants to death, and give the vineyard to others."

Dear Scholar,

Do you know me? I know you! Are you envious of Jesus Do you despise His Holy Name? Will you continue to try to destroy the Sankirtan movement with religiousity? You will fail because the Sankirtan movement will nectarize the planet with True Love of God! When Jesus reveals Himself what will you do? Will you run to Him or run away?

Hari Bol! Om Namo Christaya ki jaya!