Mahadyuti

That is so very true Prabhu. Looking at that picture, I dont know who is worse, the cheater or the foolish followers.

Just see that madness. This guest does not mention the fact that IRM devotees where verbally and physically abused by a so called Guru for simply distributing BTP magazine along with a crazed violent 'devotee' who proceeded to steal magazines and tear them apart. This crazed, dysfunctional, brainwashed cultish behaviour is totally acceptable to our guest friend, but accuses IRM for distaseful behaviour for simply distributing a magazine with a different point of view. Therefore he is saying that; 1. Its ok to beat and abuse someone for distributing literature that you dont agree with. 2. Its the fault of those who distribute a magazine with an opossing point of view when they are beaten and abused. This is the logic of a madman. According to this crazy logic, if a sankirtana devotee was assulted on the street it would be the fault of the sankirtana devotee for going to a place where materialist congregates and it would be his fault for going there and causing a disturbance. Absolute lunacy.

Yes we are 'distasteful', 'brainwashed', 'interested in offending' and 'misguided'. All character assassination and personal attacks. This is a sign that you have no arguement and are defeated.

Very true Tom Prabhu, I have heard this strange idea a few times, mainly from other 'Ritviks'. It makes no sense whatsoever. If Tamal could forge Prabhupada's signature, why would he just talk about Ritviks in the letter knowing that he wanted to be Prabhupada's successor? Makes no sense to forge a letter which only authorises you to act as a Ritvik on behalf of Prabhupada, when your plan is to forge a bogus guru authorisation letter.

Hare Krishna Mahak, Why is it that instead of discussing the Ritvik issue, you simply engage in ad hominem? Your main problem with Ritviks is that they do not preach......... You go on to say...... So making it clear that you are againced this practice of criticising Vaisnava's, you go on to criticise those who simple believe in the Ritvik system to be no different from 'perverts and drug addicts'. I suggest you follow your own advice and engage in preaching , "the glories of Krishna and the spiritual master rather then the flaws of every vaisnava teacher on the planet." Secondly to call the July 9th Document 'garbage' and to say it should be burned is shocking and shameful. You doupt the signature (which is speculation) but even admit that it could be genuine. So therefore you call a document garbage and declare it should be burned while admitting that there is a definate chance it was authorised by Prabhupada. That is disgusting. And I would like to make it clear to everyone here that the IRM donnot simply engage in 'critisizing' as in BTP magazine, but simply expose the TRUTH for the welfare of all. This nonsense arguement was used many times againced Prabhupada...that he was to critical, always bashing the athiest scientists, karmi's, mayavadis, bogus guru's, pseudo spiritualists. Foolish people would say, 'why all this criticizing Swamiji, why not just preach about Krsna'. This is all nonsense...Prabhupada criticised all the cheaters to expose them SO WE CAN KNOW WHAT IT THE REAL THING..the IRM simply add one extra category to this list of cheaters........bogus Iskcon Guru's. The cheaters must be exposed so that the innocent will not be cheated, so that they will know the real genuine article.......Srila Prabhupada, the real Guru.

lol yea right......isnt it convenient to have this wishy washy, 'my position is anything' position. Yea Lowborn doesn't follow GBC, Iskcon Guru's ,he just has his own personal thing going on. Great, just great. Get cornered and then declare, 'well I'm selling my own unique brand doesnt matter if GBC and Iskcon Gurus have a different opinion.' Just brilliant, priceless:burn:

Mataji....which part of 'Its authority is beyond question' dont you understand? "Its authority is beyond question [...] Clearly, this letter establishes a ritvik-guru system." (Jayadvaita Swami 'Where the ritvik People are Wrong' 1996)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Or have you also decided to challenge Jayadwaita, one of your 80 Bona Fide Guru's? Remember Lowborns idea that Guru's can make mistakes, be disciplined, disagreed with is a concoction. "As Hari is not subject to the criticism of mundane rules and regulations, the spiritual master empowered by Him is also not subjected." (C.c. Madhya, 10.136, text and purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

lol......no but he's a bona fide guru right, God's repressentative on this planet. Yes......no? This just gets more and more rediculous. Well is he or isnt he? Or do you pick and choose, a bit like a spiritual play your cards right? You've got Sivarama calling Jayapataka a 'sick, duplicitous liar', youve got Bhakta Vikasha Swami calling Bhakta Tirtha Swami a 'demon'. You've got rank and file devotees like Lowborn picking and choosing which 'Bone Fide Acharya' is the real deal and who is bogus. So you've got a situation where the Guru's and the disciples cant even work out the saints from the swindlers. Get a position buddy, then we can debate.

lol this lady's funny. The fact the Prabhupada set up a Ritvik system is accepted on BOTH sides of the arguement......and she's saying Prabhupada didn't set it up. "Its authority is beyond question [...] Clearly, this letter establishes a ritvik-guru system." (Jayadvaita Swami 'Where the ritvik People are Wrong' 1996) Now our friend Lowborn is doupting Jayadvaita!!!! Can you guys even stick together on anything? To be disbanded on departure or to go on post departure is the debate, Prabhupada setting the whole thing up is accepted by both sides.....apart from Deborah of course. So a Ritvik system that goes on while Prabhupada is present is accepted by everyone, but where is it in Sastra........??????? So according to the Logic of Ms Pitts no one should have even followed the Ritvik system while Prabhupada was on the planet, as the system has no historical precedent. Imagine the scene if Deborah was a Bhaktine in 1977, "Sorry Prabhupada I'm not following your bogus Ritvik system because its not in sastra." Great....that falls into disobeying the order of the spiritual master to me.

er...Mataji.....Mahak never actually said that Ritvik was bogus. You say 'concocted' lol yea right......Prabhupada only set it up! Its called the July 9th Directive:deal: read it, see what it says, thats not a concoction its a FACT and its signed by Prabhupada. Zonal Acarya's are a concoction. Voting in Guru system where Guru's can be disciplined is a concoction. Wow maya's really got inside Iskcon, you know that when guys are saying Prabhupada's orders are a concoction. Thats maya ....big time.

LOL we're the cult now???? Here's the scene, youve got Hansadutta with his firearm collection, Jayatirtha tripping on LSD getting his kead hacked off, Kirtanananda MURDERING Sulochana, Bhavanada raping poor gurukuli kids, and a bunch of sheep who follow them. And were the cult? We just say Prabhupada's the Guru.

Yea right Lowborn poor old Tusta Krishna:crying2: dont say anything about him 'he's a hundred times better devotee then me', but when TKG and Gunsadutta say anything you dont like your like showing your fangs and spitting venom at them. Your the king of double standards buddy.

The hoax has been confessed by Tamal and Hansadutta. They all new it was the system for when Prabhupada left the planet. Hansadhutta, one of the original 11 Ritviks (Self appointed gurus) "Hansadhutta:...I distinctly remember when I received the July 9, l977 letter in Śrī Lanka, that it was clear that that letter was Srila Prabhupada's arrangement for INITIATIONS FOR THE FUTURE. I also remember feeling some dissappoinment with obvious conditional authority that the Rittvik representative of the Acharya designation implied, because I actually had a great desire to be a guru like Srila Prabhupada, and I think many of the leaders did have similiar desires." TKG made this shocking confession back in 1980 when he was banned from initiating by the GBC for his involvement in the sahajya Gopi Bhava Club. Come on guys, wake up. Would have fallen for the bogus Zonal Acharya nonsense as well and be defending it with your last breath back in the 80's? Probably. PYRAMID HOUSE CONFESSIONS December 3rd 1980 Topanga Canyon Actually Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. He appointed eleven ritviks. He never appointed them gurus. Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement the last three years because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus.

Is that an unproven speculation? Yes I think so. I am a Vaisnava and follow the bible also very nicely. Please spare me quotes that I have read time and time again to prove your FALSE INTERPRETATION of them to mean that only born again christains are going to the kingdom of God and all good people from other religions are going to hell. I have spoken to many leading authorities in the Chrisitan religion and they all agree that this is a false idea presented by the 'born again sect'. LOL Im sorry I have no concern to what a fanatical NEW AGE hodgepodge cult known as 'Born Again Christianity' thinks about Vaisnavism nor do I have any concern for the 'respect' of such indiviaduals. It is amusing that you refer to Vaisnavism as 'new age' although it precedes Christianitly by thousands of years.!! Born again is notorious for being a cult with a very fanatical hate ridden bias toward other religions and your views in no way repressent so many good christians. Yes before you say it Hare Krishna has also cultish elements, but this is due to corrupt leaders in the movement who have disobeyed Prabhupada and many blind followers of them. In time the corruption will be removed and has nothing to do with the Founders original books and teachings. Right OK...so to suggest that all religions have a common goal which is to love one another, love God, learn about who we are, what is our relationship with God, that our real home is to be with God..........is arrogance you say?!!! But to suggest that only a cult of followers who missinterpret one quote from the bible as their sole doctrine and suggest that all other religions be they good kind people.....ARE GOING TO HELL because they dont happen to go through Jesus....well thats OK? Just a thought but that understanding seems a bit unintelligent, fanatical, illogical, sectarian, cultish, hate ridden and mindless. Hare Krishna:D

Hare Krishna. Thank you for your questions. You may have found that certain devotees may have had this opinion but Prabhupada never actually said that. Actually Prabhupada said that any bona fide religion is good, just to follow. The only thing that makes the Vedas stand out, is that they go into details such as who is God, what does he look like, why do good people or innocent people suffer, do animals have souls, what is the soul etc etc. Which answers a lot more questions then onther scriptures. I feel like the idea that all other religions such as buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Sikhism etc are going to hell because they dont go 'through Jesus Christ' is somewhat fanatical and seems to be a distortion. This is obviously a very narrow minded understanding that is mainly propounded by the Born Again sect of christianity. Jesus did say you have to go through him. But it could mean so many things but this one interpretation given my born again christians. One such idea is that one muct go through the bona fide representative, which was Jesus at that time. You also say that I put a vegetarian interpretation on Christianity. 'Thou shalt not kill' is CLEAR, SIMPLE , DIRECT. Killing according to the dictionary means any kind of killing. Actually the INTERPRETATION for this to mean only humans and not animals is just that.....an INTERPRETATION, by the so called Christains. Prabhupada said that Jesus said 'thou salt not kill' yet the so called christains have opened the biggest slaughterhouses. Its really a simple thing....killing poor animals especially cows is extemely sinful and one will never even begin to undertand God. That is exactly my point. Science is about a hypothesis, then experiment, then a conclusion. You say 'why should I blindly chant for 6 months' which is exactly like saying why sould I even make an experiment. This is why you should try it.....you will know for sure if it changes your consciousness that there is something real, tangible. Or you will find it does nothing so you can reject it all as nonsense. Without experimenting you will never really know. Be anything, a muslim, Christian or Hare Krishna just follow properly and you will made advancement. About my suggestion to chant Hare Krishna, if you want just chant Christ, it is a name of God and equally powerful. All religions encourage the chanting of Gods holy names, please try it. Please excuse my somewhat harsh previous post, if you found it to passionate I do appologise. I wish you all the best in you journey, you are a sincere seeker and I know you want to find the truth and I commend you for it. Try reading Bhagavada gita, many great thinkers and scientists such as Einstien studied the Gita and the Vedas. I am very confident that you will find everything that is contained in other scriptures in it and much much more. I wish you the best! Hare Krishna;)