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Bhakta Devarsi

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  1. Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by theist Let's help each other step up and walk on a higher level. namaste </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Dear Theist, If you saw what I did not, and offended me, I forgive you. Please be at peace and let us both aim for that higher level you speak of and try not to sin against one another again. ys B.M.
  2. Interpretation? Very early on, I recommended that anyone who wants to understand their Varna and Ashram, read Bhagavad Gita, and the relevant quotes from the Bhagavatam, and they will be plenty informed. You see I have no personal interest in being "The Decider". Srila Prabhupada said... Srila Prabhupada's conversations with his leaders are the purport to the purport on DVD. I have no need to interpret anything, it is all there in essence and in detail. However communicating this onto Internet forums with its letter/essay format, to those who haven't read the above, may give the appearance of interpretation, but it is simply translation. I feel like I fell for a trap, because some people, after being told to read the books, and after reading a few conversations requested my and Caturbahu das' take on how we are reading and seeing practical application of these things. I could have just reprinted Srila Prabhupada's words, but that was not what was called for, translation was the request. But suddenly those requesting the translation are so knowledgeable, I am accused of interpretation. Fool me once, shame on me. Convolution occurs when one interprets based upon logical fallacies of assumption and weak deduction; (Vows not equal to rules and regs), false dichotomies; (Iskcon = 1. initiated and 2. DVD college participants (noninitiated)); etc. That the Lord knowsthe truth is a given, but that does nothing for me. I need to go to his authority and hear all about it, so I can participate truly, and that seems to be a rare thing. Best wishes in your search for truth. Hari Bol ys BM
  3. Since the beginning of these varnashrama discussions, Brajeshwara dasa has admitted that he is not familiar with all the intricacies of what Srila Prabhupada wanted for Iskcon, admitted to skimming the evidence presented, yet still feels compelled to offer opinions. As a devil's advocate and foil for how not to understand DVD, this has worked quite well, but it is getting a bit redundant. It is a razor's edge. Be informed or be in bad form. Hare Krsna
  4. Oh my oh my. After such a well placed quote from Srila Prabhupada, so well highlighted and emphasised by Caturbahu dasa, what better than the guest pasting a quote from the CC, as if its existence defeats you and Srila Prabhupada, when that is the very conversation between our Lord and his highest confidant Sri Ramananda Raya that Srila Prabhupada is referring to and commenting on, which actually becomes a strong chastisement and then a direct order to the leaders of his society. "varnasrama-dharma must be established to make the way easy." "It must be done." It is so sad that such people as Hari Sauri have convinced people such as Guest 23 that they are already so advanced like Ramananda Raya and Sri Haridas Thakur, that they can refute Srila Prabhupada's own directives to his disciples by cutting and pasting his translation from the CC. So sad, and I mean it. Just look at the challenging attitude of Hari Sauri. "Well, at least my own understanding was that the chanting was introduced in the age of Kali because varnasrama is not possible." In the context, after direct orders from Srila Prabhupada, this is said by Hari Sauri not in a mood of submissive inquiry, but in an attempt to directly refute the person who he calls his Spiritual Master. And then after the next statement from Srila Prabhupada, he directly refutes the whole import by stating AUTHORITATIVELY "So therefore the chanting was introduced to replace all of the systems of varnasrama and like that." And Srila Prabhupada deftly agrees with him, but then sticks this challenge to his challenger... "Yes, it can replace, but who is going to replace it? The... People are not so advanced. If you imitate Haridasa Thakura to chant, it is not possible." And then the coverup got serious when Rameshwara ordered Ameyatma dasa to hide the tape with the Vrndabana Varnasrama morning walks because "It will ruin everything". Srila Prabhupada was surrounded with ilk such as this most every day, and he handled them with such grace and aplomb, I could only dream of being a speck of dust at his lotus feet. Until then I will do my little thing and take my sword to the contingent that Lord Maya has sent to stifle the truth. Hare Krsna
  5. Oh, please, that is figurative in my ideal vision! When someone begins to speak without authority in your home and tell your children what to do in ways that contradict your disciplinary paradigm to a harmful extreme, you realize you made a poor choice in a guest, and ask him to leave. If you own the property, and carry a big stick, this is usually all that is required. Conversely, only a BIG Devotee with a VERY BIG STICK, can walk into one of Srila Prabhupada's Iskcon temples and make some third rate professional reciter of the Bhagavatam get off the Vyasasana and hit the road. In leiu of my lack of empowerment in that regard, I choose the path the Lord lays out as an alternative. But don't think I am not laying down auxilary plans for the glorious day, 10 years or 100 years down the line, where such house cleaning will be the Joy of the Martial class. Hare Krsna
  6. This only tells half the story. It is a prescription for getting out of the mundane world as well, in conjunction with chanting the Maha-Mantra, and it actually supports our chanting of the Maha-Mantra by aiding us to chant it offensively. That said, I read where Srila Prabhupada wrote in a foreward or preface to his original Delhi production of the First canto in 3 parts, where he said the entire philosophy of Gaudiya Vaisnavism was contained in those three books. I wish I had saved that quote, because I have scoured the internet and cannot find it. It may actually be in the First book of the Delhi set. But that is out on loan, and inaccessible. So for a bunch of mudhas, how do we qualify to chant the name offenselessly, when it is obvious that we have begun and continue to waver between the reflection and the shadow of the name? Use the support system offered by the Lord and his Acharya, the one that is supposed to assist the name, the one that assists material minded people to come closer to goodness, and get the full benefit of the name. We are all disciples to the degree we are strictly following, and anyone from any varna may relate their honest experience with their sadhana of chanting and living in a devotional community (DVD), and if the person they are speaking to is receptive and not trying to flee the scene, they are acting as good as acharya. Such behavior is rare, but perfectly possible. Hare Krsna
  7. Already in the works before these topical threads were even posted on this forum. Conceptual, outline, and multi-lateral discussion and input from a small but dedicated group. But it is not our own. It is the perpetuation of the mission of Srila Prabhupada's Iskcon, in spirit and eventually, practically, to the letter. Iskcon. Re formed. As to Beggars comments, consider who is a candidate to be empowered. A group of sincere disciples of Srila Prabhupada who follows his instructions as if they were all in all should do the trick. Pretenders to the throne will be allowed in for Arotik and Diety darshan, fed prasadam... And then their muzzles will be put back into place. LOL Hare Krsna
  8. Just that the sannyasi who preaches is better at preaching. And there is a reason for this. Though true, this is a broad and generous statement, as it is quite obvious the people he was speaking to were BEGINNERS. Neophyte Vaisnavas. So for management, one goes to preach. In otherwords, who goes to preach is to be managed . So the manager ideally knows who is capable of preaching. And here we are not speaking only of Harinama sankirtana, or else the cleanser and engineer would have been included. He is referring to the somewhat more advanced Vaisnava who has the ability to do focused and directed preaching to target audiences. Srila Prabhupada initiated and managed many such preaching projects. Imperative Directive. Most "sanyassins" seem only to abide this when they want to manage and have people wait on them. Seen it with my own eyes. Key words, IF NEED BE. To a thoughtful person, such a need would be considered either some type of emergency, or a response to a temporary displacement of personell, and therefore the decision by a Manager to manage to fit someone into another varna's role is out of TEMPORARY (IF) - NECESSITY (NEED), and NOT a permanent solution. Here the manager's ability is tested to right the situation as soon as possible for optimal functioning. While people still think in terms of managing organizations, Sri Krsna offers an institution where they may piously engage these skills to simultaneously aid and abet the Sankirtana movement, while purifying those tendencies from their consciousness. This is the dual purpose of DVD. It simply aids the process of advancing in Bhakti yoga, and was not considered an optional consideration for us by our Acharya. Hare Krsna
  9. Ayurvedic doctrine considers Calamus root to be a remedy for the toxic effects of Cannabis Sativa (sometimes known as Ganja or marijhuana) upon the brain and the liver. Scientific evidence has shown that it reduces or eliminates entirely the soporific effects of Ganja, and experienced users report all side effects of Ganja mitigated or removed entirely by use of fresh calamus. Ayurveda cautions that only emotionaly HEALTHY and Mature individuals should utilize Cannabis for its long list of rejuvenative, supportive, and curative effects, and always with its detoxifier, Calamus root, lest malaise and confusion result. Distilled in oil, ghee preferably, is the cleanest and most appropriate form of usage of Cannabis Sativa for general healing purposes. Smoking is not advised unless one has the strength of mind of a Raja or better. Hare Krsna http://nepenthes.lycaeum.org/Plants/Acorus/calamus.html
  10. Actually, anyone who can contradict the blatant and redundant orders that a great Acharya like Srila Prabhupada made for the disciples in his institution. Anyone who would do so in public, amidst neophytes of that institution. Anyone who would post so many opinions largely without scriptural backing but on occasion USE Srila Prabhupada's words to make points contradictory to Srila Prabhupada's own preaching mission. That person has been cheated. By himself, and by "whoever" gave them instruction to act like this. And if I am 100% sure of anything, this is one of those times. And as far as the cherry picking out of context and word juggling going on with the term "Varnasrama College", it is sophomoric and already defeated by mountains of priorly stated evidence, in addition to at least 2 summaries of that evidence by the Bhaktatraveler, Caturbahu dasa, and myself, and it will be plenty suitable for any who really care about the HEALTHY continuation of HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Swami's mission. And by the way, I am proud to have received some very relevant instruction in spiritual life from Caturbahu das, Srila Prabhupada should be so fortunate that he would have 100's of those so dedicated to his vani and his alone. Even Theist makes a good point now and then, but the problem is only a Swan can scoop it up amidst the rest of his belligerent sophistry. But hey noones PERFECT, so Jaya NIMAI. Jaya NITAE. Jaya Prabhupada. ys Bhakta Mark
  11. From what I recall, noone around me was qualified to give me divya-jnana, and I was sincerely seeking because I had some realization of death and the temporary nature of material pleasure. It is my good fortune that Srila Prabhupada was inspired to appear before me and bless me with his total package. He still seems quite inspired, because he uses me to direct other people to him quite often. Circumstances are a whole lot different these days, but the principle is still the same, the external arrangement of how the most qualified and most inspired Acharya in town goes about appearing to people. Nice topic. Hare Krsna
  12. My god man are you serious? Srila Prabhupada's own words show that he made exceptions to this rule! Black and white and captured on tape! He also said we will not encourage, but the point of the exercise is to understand the Acharya's mood, and the totality of his Vani on any subject. He later made the distinction, even going so far as to caution his disciples not to give just anyone brahmana initiation, especially "now that we are dividing up the society." And that for Sudras taking the 2nd means "recognized", and they follow the rules and regs of Sudra and will get perfection. Such exaggeration. If you can show anywhere where I suggested this I will stand corrected, but I already know you can't because I know myself and I also have been watching you speculatively misconstrue just about everything written by me on the subject, saying I live in a fantasy world. Who has lived at their computer for 10700 posts on just this forum, forget about all the others you participate in? You could force me easily to accept what you are saying, by showing where Srila Prabhupada defeats himself. I would accept that. But I have way to strong a grasp on chronology, prioritization of various forms of communication as evidence, and the multidimensions of preaching to neophytes to take an early general statement as law and reject later nuanced and pointed adjustments. Srila Prabhupada assumed that when he gave an order to be implemented by his leaders that they would follow the rule and live it in order to inspire others to follow, unless it was strictly a heirarchical thing. (Yes heirarchy, still with us in the material world Theist? need a pinch?) In that case it was, you tell those under your supervision to do this, and they are to agree, if not, they don't like my program and they must go elsewhere for instruction." I have had plenty of inner purification, I know how to approach people because I care about them. Spontaneously is best sometimes. But I was looking to see if anyone around here had any experience with similar situations, etc. Not to get some wishy washy new age lecture on changing myself, and not forcing others. Not to mention that some people need to be forced to do things, as per Acharya, but that is not for the limp wristed to discuss, and was beyond the range of this topic where a plea for sanity and hopes for education are the main theme. Again, I am NOT looking for input from anyone who has no association outside of cyberspace. I am hoping to kick it around with those who interact with their local community and see the horrors of unregulated, uneducated children emerging due to lack of parental guidance, and feel somewhat helpless to persuade others to sane behavior after rejecting the guidance of an Acharya like Srila Prabhupada.
  13. Your rhetoric is pointless. Noone said anything about repression. And I rejected condemnation. I clearly made that point, and was bringing this up in spirit of Istagosthi, identifying a problem and looking for solutions which are not born of hypocrisy and breeding repression. I saw plenty of positive transcendental signs last night, and commented on them at the time, and afterwards today. However I was remembering a BAD thing I saw, in relation to the dilemna raised in CB's post. I am not a stork with head buried in sand (or worse), and I see both the positive and the negative. Gee, I seem to remember a certain acharya telling us we must know what is not favorable (prohibition) as well as what is favorable. So is there anyone else not so high on his horse that all he can do is condemn my concern? I was a school teacher, and have many nieces and nephews, we all know kids will be kids and when the hormones kick in. Srila Prabhupada knew this too, and gave us "suggestions" to implement. But they need to be implemented as a group. For as theist said... You say they Should. Should. And if the parents are not doing that, which they are not, do we care or just say it is their karma, they have free will, may as not preach to them? To do nothing and let it take care of itself is easy if one has nobody under their protection who should be guided to the best association possible. and as for this... Spoken like someone who has repressed their emotions so much that there is no longer any drama to perceive. It is all quite dramatic actually, and felt that way by sensitive people. Srila Prabhupada was ultra-extreme according to this view, he micromanaged every part of his hapless disciples dramatically ignorant lives at first. The drama becomes transcendental when we deal with the runaway drama of explotiation and manipulation, but first we have to see and aknowledge the problem, and address it as a group of adults. That means a common understanding of rules for the children. And this is built only upon what we ourselves can embody and enforce by giving higher engagement. There is such a common understanding at the local temple. It is just that it is far from what Srila Prabhupada requested. As a matter of fact, those instructions are not even mentioned for consideration, untouchable fantasy goals according to those who wish to remain grossly ignorant. So in the spirit of istagosthi, does anyone readin here have experience dealing with this in any way where they have had success in seeing nice changes made by caring interaction with others? Those who do not engage in such meaningful community endeavors need not answer, especially with presumptuous ad hominem attacks like labeling one a crusader, or less than constructive condescending platitudes like "kids will be kids" or "cut the drama". All glories to Vaisnava sanga.
  14. From the new age guru's perspective, all dogma is relinquished, all is one, there is no need to preach, no need to continue the messianic mission of the Acharya, just let everyone be "themselves", why disturb? If they want to go to hell, just let them. A true theist shows great compassion in the face of all adversity, including being classified under the one of the popularly misconstrued definitions of true messianism, and enduring beatings in 21 marketplaces or similar "forums" because of one's preaching. I am looking at this all from the perspective of a conditioned disciple, applying the teachings to myself, and lamenting that there are so few more advanced than myself who are preaching effectively, from the heart, to these poor degraded fools who are so terribly lost. And if one should stumble upon such spiritual compassion, they will stare all of the traps and pitfalls of the evangelist straight in the maw. And seek istagothi for support. Of course one must be careful about choosing the company to reveal such confidential inquiries of the heart, for you never know if there are any atheists lurking around looking to take advantage of sincere vulnerability in order to loose some venom that has formed in the old belly after years of false renunciation. I guess it just proves my point, shelter from predators, in whatever forum they are found, should be a top priority to acheive, regardless of what they will do or say to degrade, demean or debase one's character as they are confronted. Hare Krsna
  15. Hare Krsna While reading the above post, I began to revisit memories of last night at the Gaura Purnima festival, and the literally dozens, plural, of girls between 9 and 19 who were presenting themselves to me. And to all the boys and men, in the same confused hormonal driven tama-guna mating rituals which I took part in as a child due to the poor fund of knowledge of my parents and community. And while I smiled at them and was kind, inwardly it was tearing me up knowing the mediocre destiny of most of these girls, and the abuse some are destined to endure at the hands of some of the mudhas there who were all to pleased at the display, and took the opportunity to make some "advancement". I have two words. Sodom. Gomorrah. So what a pickle. It would be hypocritical for me to be condemning and angry with them, but I should certainly not tolerate that type of behavior in my community without voicing my opinion. And what detachment I must have, when if education is not received, we are looking at wholesale degradation of the society in short time, hard not to feel urgent about saving such from happening when you are young like me and still attached to desiring some modicum of humanity amidst our fakeroo knuckle dragging ape fest. Preaching from the heart in situations like this will bring both some success and probable martyrdom. I guess thats just the way Krsna likes it. Hari bol.
  16. Haleluiah! This should give a clue to all men aspiring to discipleship about how to look at all their mothers out there, from their blood Mother to Sisters, cousins, and neighbors. No-one pleases the father except through service to his Son who is the bonafide Spiritual Master, and no man pleases the Spiritual Master unless the women in his own sphere of influence are well sheltered and cared for emotionally and physically, and this alone will inspire them to spontaneously reveal the devotion and love of a divine mother to you as they will see you as a true and worthy servant of the son of Krsna the Father. Hare Krsna
  17. Moonrise 5:31 p.m. on preceding day Moon transit 12:12 a.m. Moonset 6:44 a.m. Moonrise 6:27 p.m. Moonset 7:11 a.m. on following day </pre> Full Moon on 3 March 2007 at 6:17 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. So we are to fast til 6.27 pm. As far as Lunar eclipse, this is a link to a webpage explaining the Vaisnava perspective on Eclipses. http://www.salagram.net/eclipses-page.htm Hare Krsna
  18. Not a one of them came to my mind Prabhu, I was referring to the subhuman boors who plagued and still plague the movement, the usual suspects no one else. I met a nice devotee named Subal once. He was quite full of some bhava and was kind and measured and very intelligent. Hare Krsna
  19. Hari bol Bhakta Bob Did you check Google images? They are bound to have some high res for download. ys B.M.
  20. Key word, Purified. The soul must already be purified. How did the soul reach that platform? Being PRIORLY engaged in the Practical Process of Vaidhi Bhakti Sadhana under the specific instruction of his chosen Spiritual Master and Acharya(ideal teacher). Sadhana first. Prema later. Inconceivably, that which is eternally already existing and is not brought about by any practical process of sadhana, is not realized and embodied by a conditioned soul until they practice sadhana. Inconceivable. Hope we can all get used to knowing the inconceivable. Happy Gaura Purnima ys B.M
  21. We worship "Jeheshua" or Jesus, Spiritual Master and Lord of Peace and Tranquil Love each and every morning, that is the conclusion of Srila Prabhupada.
  22. Hari bol Mahak, that was very nice to read and nice to know you could get that out so poetically, which is your penchant in prose and it means you are speaking from the heart, so here goes. I am not that guy. At least most of me is not. You have been blowing up one straw man after another, and my fault is I set them there for you by my incomplete ability to do my professed profession, but I am not so dull, so we are where we are. I am certain I have been tilting at your windmills as well. I had not the displeasure of some of the association you had to wade through in the early days, so you are the one who needs to shrug off whatever poisonous traces they left behind, tentacles still thread like needles in your neurons here and there linked to the past by the etheric subplanes. I know you know you are bigger than that, so you blow it out quick, on to better things. I get the part of the relationship. And the personal reciprocation. I played devil's advocate way back when on the PL forum with your strict standards for a ritvik priest, but mostly agreed. The most confidential point is this. Srila Prabhupada wanted guys like us to become so personally involved and caring about each other like family that we would automatically give relevant and loving Siksa to those who were Junior in advancement, not necessarily congruent with age or rank, but perhaps generally. The Ritvik can only do his job if the rest of the senior men in the society are wise and loving Siksa Guru's, unyielding from Srila Prabhupada's yoke and thus able to by qualification authoritatively reciprocate with new disciples in Iskcon. As Jesus said, "Ye will be known for even greater things than I" Srila Prabhupada has high expectations, but his orders were clear about how to proceed. We just need to have faith that he saw what we did not, recognize who is not completely Its-gone, and bring it together. Happy Gaura Purnima. ys B.Mark
  23. Hare Krsna! I feel good about what you just said. Least understood about the Ksyatria spirit is their impulsiveness within the material plane. It is a shadow of the spontaneity of the Lord's good person. When channeled by Vedic knowledge, we are talking the Maharajarsi, and the mode of goodness is prominent in such a great devotee. So on their way up, being trained by Srila Prabhupada from whatever exit they got off of the samsara highway into the transcendental express, there will be some non-vedic conditioning to work through, thus caution is imperative. In the SAME WAY, the Ksyatria tests the ones who pose to instruct based on the Absolute truth of Acharya and sastra to be sure they have the brahminical qualifications to do so. If not they need to be reprimanded and remanded into the hands of their guru for further training, and if they were altogether out of varna, their guru will expect to be checked on it. Speaking with authority without the backing is only to be done as a schoolboy among friends, or in the mock debates administered by the head master. Not among the innocent public of Kali Yuga. If they are rogue, speaking in public as if with authority, yet answering to noone, we know what Bhaktivinode Thakur did to the Bogi Yogi with the powerful siddhis. Threw away the key. By the way, I serve the spirit of the International Society of Krsna Consciousness, which includes a recognizable institution on planet earth. Srila Prabhupada envisioned a unified society. International in scope. Call it what you want, that was his goal. He planeted the seed, and he let it grow as it is. This is my specialty. Permaculture. Organic process. So I am just tending his garden. I have some quirky and diverse skills, he makes use of them in such amazing ways, considering my tendency to ignorance. He saw non sectarian removal of false boundaries among Vaisnavas by a unified and clearly delineated philosophy of spiritual service, and material management occuring simultaneously. A brahminical head which would quickly recruit the rest of the body through the sweet song of the Bhagavad Gita. A brahmana who cannot recognize and accept the deeper truth of the Ksyatria varna will have little success at satisfying A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami, and assumedly any other Gaudiya Acharya who of course work in harmony towards the Shaktavesha Avatars goals, and never preach in a confusing manner or one that would contradict such a great Acharya's recent teachings for the whole west. The Harmonist and his General are overseeing the whole show. Jaya Gaura Hari!
  24. Actually, when you discover it is very much YOUR business also, then the truth will prevail. Good luck. Hare Krsna
  25. And this is backed up nicely by Srila Prabhupada's own words. "Therefore after seeing, observing a person is doing everything, then say second initiation, or then he should not be recommended for second initiation unless the president and the other authorities see that he is doing nicely, he is following. Otherwise he should not be recommended. If he is recommended, that is also another cheating. If you know that this person is not following the rules and regulation, then why should you recommend him? Then it is another cheating." In the same way, Caturbahu, et al were cheated. Not exactly according to the context of the above quote, but remember that the peripheral rules and regs to support the 4 regs and chanting were being uniformly applied to everyone and they were brahminical. This is what Srila Prabhupada was trying to avoid at this point. Not so much change in the basic 4 regs, but everything supporting them by varna. Taking responsibility for being cheated is not equivalent to maintaining any vow one was cheated into making due to naivete. No need for the self-flagellation once the calvary arrives. Make the necessary adjustments, and move on.
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